Some questions for nursing moms...need advice

[Sue G in PA]

I figured I would be able to get lots of advice from this board so here is my question/situation: I'm nursing my 6mo. I've nursed all 7 of my children (him being the 7th) w/out problem and up until just recently was still nursing my dd3. I had to stop that. My situation is this: Little dude is not a very calm nurser. What I mean, is he "wrestles" with me at each and every feeding...pushing and pulling, grabbing, etc. and he has quite a strong "suck" and pulls back alot while nursing and quite frankly, I feel like one of these days he's going to take it with him! I want to continue nursing for at least another 6 mos. but I am so sore that I've resorted to forcing a bottle on him sometimes (and he HATES the bottle). What can I do about this? None of my other kids were quite so "hyper" and "violent" at the breast. I *think* that I am producing enough milk...I have let down at each feeding and I can see milk in his mouth and hear him swallow. He seems satisfied although he has never slept through the night (not even close!).

 

Next question concerns starting solid foods. We started giving him cereal and baby food about a month ago. He still had quite a strong "gag reflex" so we stopped. He is 6 mos. old now and we are trying again. He still refuses it. He gags, spits it out, "purses" his lips so we can't even get the food in. I'm a zombie b/c he still wakes several times a night to nurse and I just can't go on like that. What would you do? He refuses bottles as well although I do try to give him one w/ cereal mixed in sometimes. He won't even take one from the kids or my dh. Stubborn child (wonder where he gets that from :D )

 

Thanks for any advice you all might have. I'm at my wits end.

[Another Lynn]

I really don't know... but if I had one nursing that way, I might try stretching out times between feedings. Maybe if he's *really* hungry he would settle down and get to business? Also, you know best how your supply is... are you drinking enough (although I read somewhere liquid intake doesn't effect supply like we thought?), are you keeping enough weight on you? As for sleeping through the night.... I've had some better than others, but it seems like the better they "do" during the day, the better they do during the night. I'm not a strict "baby-wise" mom, but I do like to see a little nurse, play, sleep pattern. Sometimes when I feel like the baby is "snacking" all day I will write down what she/he does for a day or two (all feedings and naps) to see if there is a problem. Sometimes *I'm* the one encouraging the snacking because I need to do something as soon as she finishes nursing and I think one side will hold her awhile, etc.etc.

 

That's probably not much help, but it's how I would address the same problems if they were happening here.

 

Good luck!!!

[amy g.]

When my baby acted that way, it was a food allergy. She wanted to nurse, but it hurt her stomach, so she'd arch her back and pull away.

 

I cut out nuts, wheat, eggs and milk. She responded in just a few days.

[FO4UR]

Mine all were very distractable at that age. Is he trying to see what's going on? If so, take him to a quite room to nurse (good luck with finding one, huh?:tongue_smilie:) and as soon as he starts squirming, end the feeding.

 

How are his poops? His skin? The food allergy issue might a road to explore if he has any other symptoms (like eczema or foul smelling poo). How is his growth?

 

I know it's H.A.R.D. My youngest was (and still is) a biter - 'nuff said!

 

Don't push the solids (esp if there is even a hint of food allergies). When he starts grabbing food from your hand/mouth, he's ready to eat.

[TraceyS/FL]

Moving my DD's bedtime UP solved her sleeping thru the night issues. She was almost 1 though - and getting up every few hours (and cruely, had slept all night from the day she was born till 3 months old :glare:). Once we started putting her to bed around 6pm, she that night slept till 6am.

 

I had a book recommended to me on the topic - he helped you figure out sleep cycles.

 

On the nursing - i had a rowdy one at the start of a session. COuld you have too much flow maybe for him too? I also had issues like that when i had a mild case of thrush.

 

I'd do the cutting that Amy suggested first, and work on finding out what his sleep pattern might be to be able to drop a nighttime feeding.

 

:grouphug:

[hornblower]

If a client called me with this questions, I'd want to

a) see the baby nursing

and

b) most likely refer to an OT for an assessment of the mouth, esp the gag reflex

 

I'm wondering

-does the position you feed him alter things at all?

-is it better at certain times of the day

-is it possible that the milk is coming too fast & overwhelming him

-can he sit unassisted; if he's not, he's not really ready for solids; if he can, you could try giving breastmilk in a sippy cup

-have you tried nursing with him sitting more upright, facing you; alternatively, have you tried lying down with him to nurse

-do you bring him to bed at night? Many moms nurse all night long without really noticing.

-could he be over-stimulated by noise & activity in your home? curious babies sometimes really don't want to miss out on seeing what's going on so the moms need to go to a quiet room; also try singing him a quiet song over and over while he nurses

-will he gnaw on something on his own? Assuming you have no allergies, I'd give him a stick of whole wheat toast & see what he does with it. Watch him of course, but I'm a fan of babies feeding themselves. A chunk of cooked chicken breast would also work.

 

-the way to assess milk production is to look at output. I'd be looking for at least 6 heavy wet diapers. Urine should be clear. Poops vary more. Most kids poop once a day or more, but I've also known healthy bf babies who pooped less than that

 

~ with my IBCLC hat on ~

[mo2]

I figured I would be able to get lots of advice from this board so here is my question/situation: I'm nursing my 6mo. I've nursed all 7 of my children (him being the 7th) w/out problem and up until just recently was still nursing my dd3. I had to stop that. My situation is this: Little dude is not a very calm nurser. What I mean, is he "wrestles" with me at each and every feeding...pushing and pulling, grabbing, etc. and he has quite a strong "suck" and pulls back alot while nursing and quite frankly, I feel like one of these days he's going to take it with him! I want to continue nursing for at least another 6 mos. but I am so sore that I've resorted to forcing a bottle on him sometimes (and he HATES the bottle). What can I do about this? None of my other kids were quite so "hyper" and "violent" at the breast. I *think* that I am producing enough milk...I have let down at each feeding and I can see milk in his mouth and hear him swallow. He seems satisfied although he has never slept through the night (not even close!).

 

Next question concerns starting solid foods. We started giving him cereal and baby food about a month ago. He still had quite a strong "gag reflex" so we stopped. He is 6 mos. old now and we are trying again. He still refuses it. He gags, spits it out, "purses" his lips so we can't even get the food in. I'm a zombie b/c he still wakes several times a night to nurse and I just can't go on like that. What would you do? He refuses bottles as well although I do try to give him one w/ cereal mixed in sometimes. He won't even take one from the kids or my dh. Stubborn child (wonder where he gets that from :D )

 

Thanks for any advice you all might have. I'm at my wits end.

 

 

 

My son nurses this way. He has since he was born, and now he's almost 2! I'm sure in his case it is not a food allergy...he eats any and all solids put in front of him with no problem. He is just an extremely active, distractable boy. I don't have any advice for you. I just kind of put up with it. Sometimes it would work to have something for him to hold in his hand and play with while he nursed, other times not. Good luck! I hope you find a solution.

[Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady]

BTDT, Sue! Yikes, you poor thing. The pull-off thing is a real, literal pain. I would hold his head firmly to my breast and not allow him to pull off. Hopefully, this would eventually condition him not to do it, if it is done at each feeding initially. I know you realize you can break his suck by inserting your finger into his mouth while he is still at the breast (after all you are a seasoned nursing mom :o). YOu could also hold him tightly while nursing (maybe use a sling?) to prevent him from wiggling. He may not like it at first, but his desire to nurse may win out and he will cooperate. Each time he begins to wiggle, take him off and say "shhhh...be still" (say it softly in a sing-song voice). It may take a few times before he gets the hang of it.

 

He may need to nurse in a very quiet and peaceful place...if that is possible in a busy household like yours! One of my twins was a very jumpy, agitated nurser. Grrr.... I found that I needed to be very relaxed before feedings or he would be all over the map.

 

Good luck! (how is your milk supply? He could be wiggling because the milk is not coming out fast enough for him. If you are concerned about milk supply, I'd recommend fenugreek capsules..they worked for me like a charm!) Obviously, you know to drink enough water and eat properly..and rest. Just wanted to remind you, Sue! Blessings.

[Gretchen in NJ]

Sue, sorry to hear you are having troubles. My 1st was nice and quiet nurser and started on solids at 3 or 4 months old.

 

It was not the same with my 2nd. She liked to see what what going on and would try and take part of me with her while she nursed.;) I always had to be in a quite room with no one around. She would never eat solids or drink from a cup. She nursed for a year to the day. The day before her last birthday, she bit me and never nursed again. Her first solid food was a chocolate cupcake at her 1st Birthday Party.:confused:

 

Warm tea bags always helped me when I was sore.

 

:grouphug:

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

My youngest dd was like that at about the same age. I had lost all of my pregnancy weight and my supply was going down. I had to start eating several big snacks every day (walnuts and yogurt with flax seed were the two best ones that I eat every day now) and drink more water. She was mad because she wasn't getting a let down fast enough. Also, since my supply was lower (maybe?) I had to make sure that I relaxed to help get a let down. Add to that the fact that she was distracted by her two older siblings. But things are going much better now. Oh, and I also started sleeping with her recently. She didn't want to stop nursing at night and have me put her down. All she really wanted was to be by me. She still, at 9 1/2 months, wakes up about 2 times a night to nurse but now she just eats her food and then cuddles up with me.

HTH

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

Forgot about the solids problem. We had that too. Youngest dd didn't want anything until she was 8 months old. Even after she started eating she would still push her tongue out. DS also had a gagging problem. They both finally started eating fresh, mashed up bananas off of my finger. It was easier for them to suck the food of of my finger than to eat it off of a spoon.

Good luck!

[Sue G in PA]

Thanks everyone. I know the issue isn't food allergies (but thanks for pointing out that it could be!) b/c he hasn't had any reactions to solids (what little bits he actually swallows!) or anything in my milk. He doesn't have gas problems or foul smelling poops or anything. Now, he has been teething and his poops have been more green than yellow and more runny.

 

I am *thinking* that the milk is not coming fast enough for him b/c he nurses furiously in the beginning (pulling, and squeezing and really working hard) but relaxes a bit more when my milk lets down. I do try to hold him close and not let him pull quite so much. I'm wondering if my supply just isn't what it used to be and he's not happy with that. More I think about it, the more I think that's what is going on. He nurses this way in private or in areas w/ lots going on and in any/all positions. So, hmmm...any ideas for an increase in supply? I don't think I'm drinking enough and I certainly could use more healthy snacks in my diet. I do have some Mother's Milk tea so perhaps I'll try that. Any other supply boosters (I know of fenugreek). Thanks again!

[lighthouseacademy]

 

I don't think I'm drinking enough and I certainly could use more healthy snacks in my diet. I do have some Mother's Milk tea so perhaps I'll try that. Any other supply boosters (I know of fenugreek). Thanks again!

 

Two big ones are red raspberry leaf tea and blessed thistle tea.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Take him to Target and throw a blanket over him!:D

 

Sorry. Just couldn't resist!

[Nicole not in CA]

Fenugreek worked wonders for me. Against all odds I did have a milk supply with my second dd, but it was very low initially, and with Fenugreek and lots of pumping I was actually able to have just enough milk for my dd. The only other things I would know to suggest would be oatmeal (helps for some women) and make sure you are getting enough protein and drinking enough water.

[Gretchen in NJ]

Thanks everyone. I know the issue isn't food allergies (but thanks for pointing out that it could be!) b/c he hasn't had any reactions to solids (what little bits he actually swallows!) or anything in my milk. He doesn't have gas problems or foul smelling poops or anything. Now, he has been teething and his poops have been more green than yellow and more runny.

 

I am *thinking* that the milk is not coming fast enough for him b/c he nurses furiously in the beginning (pulling, and squeezing and really working hard) but relaxes a bit more when my milk lets down. I do try to hold him close and not let him pull quite so much. I'm wondering if my supply just isn't what it used to be and he's not happy with that. More I think about it, the more I think that's what is going on. He nurses this way in private or in areas w/ lots going on and in any/all positions. So, hmmm...any ideas for an increase in supply? I don't think I'm drinking enough and I certainly could use more healthy snacks in my diet. I do have some Mother's Milk tea so perhaps I'll try that. Any other supply boosters (I know of fenugreek). Thanks again!

 

One ice cold beer always did it for me. I could never have more than a sip or two.

[tricia]

Hi Sue,

I will offer what I can having nursed and still nursing 12 children. My 10th child did that same kind of thing. She was never still and actually started to bite. Here is what I did with her. I gave her a toy to hold and firmly/gently told her how it was. I said when you want to bite, pull away, etc you are to play with the toy. Sounds crazy but I think her deal was she was always distracted. Also, I have found that if I am distracted with other children while nursing then I have issues with the one being nursed. Have you tried going to a quiet dark room to nurse him? That helps wonders.

 

As far as feeding him goes. I never gave solids until at least a year. And with a couple of them they didn't even take to solids until over a year. On up to 14 months for one of mine. I hope this helps.

 

Blessings

[klmama]

I'm sorry I don't have an answer for you. I will pray that God reveals the solution to you and that your little guy will learn to sleep through the night soon!

[cillakat]

was he always this active at the breast or is it a new thing?

 

an experienced LC should be able to watch/listen to him while nursing and should be able to give some guidance regarding what it is....

 

possibilities:

not enough milk

too much milk or overactive letdown

developmental (ie distractible, active etc)

GERD

difficulty co-ordinating the suck/breath/swallow pattern

food allergies/intolerances

 

 

Consider looking around online for the Jack Newman 'asymmetrical latch' videos. You should be able to find them without much trouble.

 

A deep asymmetrical latch can go a long way in helping resolve many issues - though certainly not all

 

:)

Katherine

[cjzimmer1]

I can't really help you on the roughness while nursing but I can offer some advice on the bottle. SKIP IT. None of my children have willingly taken bottles. Around 5 months we just start with a sippy cup (without the no-spill feature) so I can basically slowly pour the milk in to the mouths. They are used to the taste/feel of the real thing and the nipple on the bottle just confuses them because they don't know what to do with it. By having the sippy cup, I can actually get the milk in their mouth so they know they are getting the stuff they are looking for. After a few days they get the hand of sucking on it to. The other advantage is then you never have to wean them from a bottle.

 

HTH

[Garga]

My first was like that, staying latched while trying to look around--yeee. He also used to swing his arm around the whole time, hitting my legs, then swinging it up to hit my face. He just HAD to be moving. (He's still that way. When we homeschool, he's ranging around the room.)

 

I would get a towel and pin his arm down with it. The arm that was supporting him was the one that would be holding the towel in place. And then the legs would start kicking. It was like the Daffy Duck. His arms are still, so the legs move, the legs are still, so the head moves, etc...

 

I'd also suggest trying to go a little longer between feedings...just a little at a time, to see if maybe he'll get down to business and really eat instead of wiggling around. (We had the same problem--he wanted to eat all night long! I was a zombie.) If I could do it over (knowing more now) I'd have made him wait, even if he cried, for a few nights to try to put the feedings farther apart.

 

Oh, and he slept in bed with me. If I'd had to do it again, he'd sleep alone so he wouldn't expect to snack all night.

[stripe]

Now, he has been teething and his poops have been more green than yellow and more runny.

 

I wonder if your milk is coming down too fast and overwhelming him? An excess of foremilk (the watery part) does lead to greenish poops. Here's a link that describes this better than I could, along with suggestions of what to do.

[Lovedtodeath]

You have gotten some great advice here, but if you are looking for more, www.kellymom.com has the best breastfeeding advice and I know they (lactation consultants) will have an answer for you on the forums.

[swellmomma]

baby girl is like this. SHe would chomp down with her gums and then be turning her head to see what was going on and OUCH! I would be in pain. When she started squirming lots or pulling like that I would tell her no and put her down. Even as a young baby she learned not to do that. SHe is now 14 months and still nursing and waking in the night to nurse. For night time I co-sleep, So much easier to get the sleep I need when I can just roll over and pop her on. She is still active, and is often seen trying to perform acrobatics while nursing (think trying to stand on her head etc) But she is a lot less rough with my breasts which is a relief. My biggest issue now is when she is really tired she likes to rest her upper teeth on my breast, and the sucking causes them to scrape me, that is painful and not something I have experienced before. The longest I bf before this one was 4 months so to have made it to 14 months is crazy.

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

Yes, he does sound like my dd. My others were just content to suck but she wanted the food and she wanted it as soon as she started nursing. I had a very strong let-down when she was a young infant and I think that's why she wanted the food so bad right away when she was older. For me it was definitely an issue of me not having enough calories and water in my body. Nuts and seeds have lots of calories so I eat some everyday (walnuts and flax seed, plus sometimes some others). I've also heard that oatmeal can help boost your milk supply and I have that a few times a week as well. I had to schedule my snacks/meals so that I was eating every 2 hours while I was awake. I think the biggest issue of all for me was sugar and simple carbs. They lowered my milk supply and dd was sensitive to them as well. She would spit up a few hours after I ate them, though that was another issue.

The other problem that came along with my lower milk supply was that it was harder for dd to get a let-down. I have to make sure that I am very relaxed whenever I'm nursing and just concentrating on nursing until I get a let-down. We snuggle on the couch with the Boppy, I close my eyes, and I purposefully relax my body and think about my milk coming out.

HTH

 

Oh, and I also hold her upper hand while she nurses to keep at least one part of her body from being so active.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Lisa in the UP of MI
Added more info

[KatieJ]

My DD 2nd child nursed the way you describe. I am fairly certain the problem was there wasn't enough milk. I rarely would hear the gulping sound a baby makes when he is getting lots of milk. DD had a difficult time nursing both kids and there were plenty of diagnosis for the lst child, acid reflux and food allergies. 2nd one was pawing like a kitty does the whole time she nursed. She is now a bonafide picky eater, doen'st like a whole lot of food, but now at age 2, sensory issues are being explored as the reason for that.

No answers, just :grouphug: here!