Ethics question: Who is a 'home-schooler'?

[CJVW]

If you use state funded curricula, you are not a homeschooler, you do public school at home.

Uh, we use funds from a charter to purchase our curriculum. Why does where my child's funds come from dictate whether or not she is educated at home?

 

I'm pretty sure there isn't a public school in the US using Build Your Library.

 

We don't use public school curriculum, nor do we replicate school at home. But you feel a public school designation is more accurate than a hime educated one simply because of her funds source?

 

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[CJVW]

They don't just pay for the curriculum, though. They determine the course content and graduation requirements. They also issue the grades, create the transcript, and issue the diploma.

 

This is inaccurate for our charter.

 

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[maize]

For those who think there is/ought to be a clear line between homeschool/public school based on funding, does the same apply to public vs private school? Because I know a number of students attending private schools on public school scholarships. Their course of study and diploma come from the private school, not the public funding source.

Edited December 14, 2017 by maize

[justasque]

Uh, we use funds from a charter to purchase our curriculum. Why does where my child's funds come from dictate whether or not she is educated at home?

 

I'm pretty sure there isn't a public school in the US using Build Your Library.

 

We don't use public school curriculum, nor do we replicate school at home. But you feel a public school designation is more accurate than a hime educated one simply because of her funds source?

 

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In most cases where students are enrolled in a public school but do their schooling at home, the school awards their high school credits and diploma.

  

If your child is enrolled in a public school that doesn't award high school credits or diplomas, that's a fairly unusual "special case" from a country-wide perspective, and the best thing to do is contact the college in question as to how they want you to answer the questions on their application, especially if it is an out of state college which may not be familiar with the kind of charter set-up you are using.

 

The way you self-identify in social settings (park day, homeschooling groups) and to the check out lady in the grocery store may be different than how a college views you, in terms of whether their homeschooler application process applies to you.  

 

And it should be noted that schools are different and students are different, so a label that's an advantage in some way for one school (less paperwork for public school kids, easier eligibility for certain programs or scholarships) may be a disadvantage for another (if the school prefers homeschoolers for some reason, or the homeschool requirements better showcase the student's accomplishments).  

[justasque]

For those who think there is/ought to be a clear line between homeschool/public school based on funding, does the same apply to public vs private school? Because I know a number of students attending private schools on public school scholarships. Their course of study and diploma come from the private school, not the public funding source.

 

Why would a college care about the distinction between public and private schools?  

(I can see why they would care about the distinction between one particular school and another, in assessing things like whether the student is taking the most challenging classes available to them, or the fact that one school's B students are well prepared for college but another school's A student still need considerable remedial help to be successful.  But why public vs. private in general?  The application process is generally no different between the two, unlike hsing vs public/private school.)

Edited December 14, 2017 by justasque

[CJVW]

Edited to add: I would suggest my child contact the school prior to submission for direction on his/her situation.

 

For our situation, I would submit the diploma from the charter and encourage my children to define the program and how they were educated so the college could decide how they should be categorized.

 

We are very lucky with how hands off our charter is and how much control we maintain as parents.

 

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Edited December 14, 2017 by CJVW

[GoodGrief]

For our situation, I would submit the diploma from the charter and encourage my children to define the program and how they were educated so the college could decide how they should be categorized.

 

We are very lucky with how hands off our charter is and how much control we maintain as parents.

 

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For seniors doing college apps, submitting a diploma or providing proof of graduation occurs at the end of the year after admission decisions are made. Generally the application asks one to list schools attended. The choice at hand in the original scenario is whether one lists the charter in which the student is enrolled, or apply instead as an independent homeschooler.

[theelfqueen]

Random question... my 11th grader attended a public high school from Aug-Oct of 9th... no credits were awarded there. Should we mention this brief school attendance on applications when the time comes?

 

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[snowbeltmom]

Random question... my 11th grader attended a public high school from Aug-Oct of 9th... no credits were awarded there. Should we mention this brief school attendance on applications when the time comes?

 

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Every college application I have seen asks the applicant to list all of the high schools he has attended, so you would have to list the public school even though no credits were granted.  However, I am only familiar with the Common App and one other school's own application.  Colleges that don't participate in the Common Application may not ask the student to list all of the high schools he has attended.

 

[CJVW]

 

 

For seniors doing college apps, submitting a diploma or providing proof of graduation occurs at the end of the year after admission decisions are made. Generally the application asks one to list schools attended. The choice at hand in the original scenario is whether one lists the charter in which the student is enrolled, or apply instead as an independent homeschooler.

And because you list all schools, you can list the charter AND the traditional homeschool experiences. You can also contact the school prior to submission and ASK how they want it handled. (Mom of a college student.)

 

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[Ellie]

Uh, we use funds from a charter to purchase our curriculum. Why does where my child's funds come from dictate whether or not she is educated at home?

 

I'm pretty sure there isn't a public school in the US using Build Your Library.

 

We don't use public school curriculum, nor do we replicate school at home. But you feel a public school designation is more accurate than a hime educated one simply because of her funds source?

 

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It's a legal distinction. Your child is enrolled in the charter school, yes? Then legally, she is a public school student.

[LucyStoner]

I don't consider it a question of ethics.

 

I tend to think anyone who identifies as a homescholer is a homeschooler. If you homeschooled through an umbrella or cyber school, you would of course list them accurately on the transcript and application though, I would assume. Also, the cyber student would have a transcript from that school which should be submitted, no?

Edited December 14, 2017 by LucyStoner

[LucyStoner]

Random question... my 11th grader attended a public high school from Aug-Oct of 9th... no credits were awarded there. Should we mention this brief school attendance on applications when the time comes?

 

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Is there some reason not to list it?

 

The admissions office can rescind offers of admission if they discover false statements in the application.

[katilac]

I don't see much room for debate. Are you listed as a public school student? Then you are a public school student. 

[justasque]

Every college application I have seen asks the applicant to list all of the high schools he has attended, so you would have to list the public school even though no credits were granted.  However, I am only familiar with the Common App and one other school's own application.  Colleges that don't participate in the Common Application may not ask the student to list all of the high schools he has attended.

 

 

Every app I've seen - somewhere between 15 and 20 over the years - has asked that all high schools and colleges be listed.  I think it's pretty common, though obviously even 20 is a small sample.

[GoodGrief]

And because you list all schools, you can list the charter AND the traditional homeschool experiences. You can also contact the school prior to submission and ASK how they want it handled. (Mom of a college student.)

 

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Yes, that's true. All school experiences should be listed, independent homeschooling and otherwise, and certainly one can contact the college in question for clarification. My last applicant used the "other" section of the common app to clarify the way her education played out, and her educational method came up in essays for some schools, so there would be no question. Your original post before the edit made it sound like you thought one sent in the diploma with the app, and I wanted to clarify that point for future readers looking for information :-)

[Ravin]

Let's suppose, for the purposes of argument, your child does K-12 (  or Acellus, or Compass Learning)  independently.  You pay out of pocket, use the curriculum, and teach your child. At the end of high school, you create the transcript.

 

Let's suppose Suzie's kiddo uses K-12 (or Acellus, or Compass Learning, or any of the other resource providers that also offers an option to maintain grades)  through a cyber school. The state pays for it, she uses it to teach her child.  At the end of the day, the State or company  has created her transcript.

 

Which one of these children can apply to college as a 'home-schooler' or can both?  Neither child has ever stepped inside a b&m school and Mom has always done all the teaching.

 

Can both Moms equally claim to have 'homeschooled' their child?   Is the child who used a cyber-school ethically required to submit a transcript from the school as a 'public-schooler'.

 

Would you feel the same if both moms used eclectic curricula chosen for their child  from an assortment of sources but one still had a cyber or charter umbrella?

 

Consider that the reason for wanting to be a 'home-schooler' is because there are some colleges that look favorably upon kids educated at home.

 

I understand that post-secondary classes must follow a student but do you feel that a public school transcript must? 

 

This is not an ethics question, it is a funding/bureaucracy issue. If you paid out of pocket, your child is either 1. homeschooled, or 2. private schooled (in a number of states this is the same thing).

If the state paid, you are a homeschooler.

 

If you use full support/services of an online school, including teacher support, mom may be a "learning coach" but isn't, technically, the teacher. But, if mom is the one issuing the diploma (and not the online school), the child is still homeschooled.

[Amber in SJ]

I have not read each & every reply because I find the distinctions very much in the same vein of "mommy wars" because people want to define for others what a homeschooler is.  Some would consider my kids to not be homeschoolers because we use a charter.  That's OK.  I have homeschooled for 12 years now; some years with a charter and some years without. I know we are homeschoolers.  I choose the curriculum, I teach the curriculum, heck, I write the curriculum much of the time.  I choose the graduation requirements as well.  As for grades?  Well, I spent several hours scanning in my grade book to send to the charter, for this semester so they can show other, less experienced, homeschoolers how to do it :)  I spend all my charter school $$ on extracurriculars; not on curriculum at all. 

 

I have had two leave my home and go to the university of their choice(s).  Out of all the college applications we filled out I did not find one that thought a mommy transcript was a positive so I am not sure what is the supposed advantage.  In fact one college wanted my dd to take several additional "placement tests" besides her ACT score of 30, a 3.8 GPA from me & a 3.5 GPA in her 33 units from our local CC.  When I asked why she would need to take more tests, the admissions department told me that in their experience homeschoolers only have such high scores because the grades are given by mom.  Needless to say, that college was not a good fit for dd. 

 

I don't find it unethical to call ourselves homeschoolers because we use a charter school.  I also don't find it unethical to call myself a mom, just because I have help parenting occasionally.  I don't find it unethical to call myself a Christian even though I am a Mormon and some other Christian groups want to exclude my faith from Christendom.  If you are interested in applying to a particular school you should find out what the school's definition of homeschooler is because in that instance their opinion matters.  Outside of that situation, anyone who is trying to exclude someone from the definition of "homeschooler" because of a decision to take part in the educational choices out there, shouldn't get a vote in how you define homeschooler.

 

Amber in SJ

 

 

[frogger]

I think this umbrella school is encouraging parents to act in an unethical way that is harmful to homeschoolers.  

 

I know it's common and will become more common as time moves forward.  Nothing we can do about it.

 

 

I'm honestly not familiar with the state provided transcripts of homeschooled children. Presumably the point of using approved providers is to have the child take tests and hit markers that provide progress reports to an outside authority?    Or can mom make up any grade she wants and then get a state stamp of approval? 

 

 

Yes, that is what happens with Charters and correspondence programs in my state. I held out for 12 years doing the poor man's version of homeschooling before deciding that with as much property taxes and income taxes as I pay my children ought to be able to have some swim lessons and music lessons too. So I caved. Before I did not even have to let the state know I was homeschooling. No reports, no tests, nothing. Now I do. In exchange for some funds to be able to do extras and outsource to Derek Owens a couple kids math classes I get some of my property taxes back. This means I'm accountable to the school for 2 things:

 

1) To take the required state tests and

2) To put on my child's transcript the classes required to graduate. 

 

As an honest person I fulfill these requirements. Most of the requirements would be required by colleges anyway so it didn't change anything really but the state in no way approves my curriculum or even knows if I'm doing anything beyond watching soap operas and eating bon-bons. They really don't. I guess they could try to point to my scores but since I have two with learning disabilities they have no idea just how hard those two work. Others could skate by with little work and still pass state tests. I write down a short class description at the begining and at the end of them semester I give them a grade. I could just send in all A's if I felt like it. It is one of the reasons class rank really really bothers me with these schools. They are meaningless. A kid that reads a couple Biology books could get an A while another one is doing advanced labs and research reports and gets a C because his parent is a strict grader. It is why the D I gave my son Freshman year still hangs over my head. 

 

So yes, it is a joke. The funds I'm using to outsource some classes are improving their education though as I can't handle all four with learning disabilities so I swallow my disgust and take it. 

 

I do think it is important to separate homeschoolers from public schoolers in discourse though. It would frustrate me to no end to be told I had to test my children and all that because I was using state funds when in fact I wasn't. If you are taking government funds you should be held accountable in some way. It would help the broad discussion when talking about laws or applying to colleges if we could be more precise with our language. 

[CJVW]

Yes, that's true. All school experiences should be listed, independent homeschooling and otherwise, and certainly one can contact the college in question for clarification. My last applicant used the "other" section of the common app to clarify the way her education played out, and her educational method came up in essays for some schools, so there would be no question. Your original post before the edit made it sound like you thought one sent in the diploma with the app, and I wanted to clarify that point for future readers looking for information :-)

Agreed, I worded that poorly!

 

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[CJVW]

It's a legal distinction. Your child is enrolled in the charter school, yes? Then legally, she is a public school student.

This post isn't about legal distinctions.

 

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[Dmmetler]

What I have done so far for applications that want schools attended is list

 

Cover school name (private homeschool umbrella school, issues diploma and transcript, but does no testing and grading)

 

Community College name (concurrent enrollment, counts for high school and college)

 

Mentoring program name (college level lab science, not counted for high school credit)

 

Etc.

 

Honestly, I’m not sure if DD is public schooled (since most of her credits at at a public community college), private schooled (since we register with a CRS, and if DD were not so registered she would be legally truant-colleges do not count for mandatory attendance purposes in my state), or homeschooled since she is enrolled in the home program for said CRS. I am providing almost no instruction at this point, and her grades are those given by the outside providers. I can hardly blame colleges for being confused.

[maize]

What I have done so far for applications that want schools attended is list

 

Cover school name (private homeschool umbrella school, issues diploma and transcript, but does no testing and grading)

 

Community College name (concurrent enrollment, counts for high school and college)

 

Mentoring program name (college level lab science, not counted for high school credit)

 

Etc.

 

Honestly, I’m not sure if DD is public schooled (since most of her credits at at a public community college), private schooled (since we register with a CRS, and if DD were not so registered she would be legally truant-colleges do not count for mandatory attendance purposes in my state), or homeschooled since she is enrolled in the home program for said CRS. I am providing almost no instruction at this point, and her grades are those given by the outside providers. I can hardly blame colleges for being confused.

An excellent illustration of how this is not a cut and dried issue.

[Farrar]

This is an interesting question. Usually, I think in a colloquial sense that people are too uptight about this. Let people call themselves homeschoolers even if they're not legally homeschoolers. But if a student who has a state issued diploma from a curriculum that was entirely determined and graded by public school teachers were to throw that transcript away and make up their own in order to apply to college, I'd call that a fraud. The student who did K12 independently is welcome to work their transcript however they like and include their outside K12 things and organize it how they want. Just like they were free to not do parts of K12 because they were doing it on their own terms. The student who did it as a public school student can't do that anymore than a b&m public school student can throw out their transcript and claim to have been a homeschooler just to look better to colleges. That's just not okay ethically.

 

If a student drops out of school for the final semester, I'm not sure what's the right thing ethically. I think if to look good for colleges is the only reason, then that's pretty morally questionable. But I don't know what the right answer is in terms of ethics. If it was something relatively rigid like K12, I think I have less sympathy than if it was a distance or charter program where the parents were genuinely doing most of the overseeing and planning, just getting rubber stamped by a supervising teacher.

[HS Mom in NC]

This is an interesting question. Usually, I think in a colloquial sense that people are too uptight about this. Let people call themselves homeschoolers even if they're not legally homeschoolers. But if a student who has a state issued diploma from a curriculum that was entirely determined and graded by public school teachers were to throw that transcript away and make up their own in order to apply to college, I'd call that a fraud. The student who did K12 independently is welcome to work their transcript however they like and include their outside K12 things and organize it how they want. Just like they were free to not do parts of K12 because they were doing it on their own terms. The student who did it as a public school student can't do that anymore than a b&m public school student can throw out their transcript and claim to have been a homeschooler just to look better to colleges. That's just not okay ethically.

 

 

If a student drops out of school for the final semester, I'm not sure what's the right thing ethically. I think if to look good for colleges is the only reason, then that's pretty morally questionable. But I don't know what the right answer is in terms of ethics. If it was something relatively rigid like K12, I think I have less sympathy than if it was a distance or charter program where the parents were genuinely doing most of the overseeing and planning, just getting rubber stamped by a supervising teacher.

This isn't necessarily directed at your post in particular, but yours addresses both aspects of the underlying problem here. 

 

Aren't the problems stated exactly why people are so uptight about the label in general?  People who traditionally school at an institution usually have no idea how incredibly complex it is and aren't able to discern when the label would apply and when it wouldn't.  Even here in the community most likely to grasp the complexity people are struggling to understand each other and communicate their thoughts clearly because people are so afraid of upsetting the sensitive mommies that we can't clarify terms. The point of terms: words, labels, and classifications is to communicate ideas.  Different ideas usually have different terms.  Agreeing on the meaning of a term is essential for clear communication.

 

 

I think the sensitive mommies who are defensive about clarifying terms need to bow out of these discussions and let people who are objectively trying to clear things up carry on with hammering this out. Not addressing it doesn't solve anything, and who knows what consequences there could be to parents, students, and schools by allowing all this confusion to go on indefinitely.

 

[Farrar]

Since the legal definition of homeschooling and exactly what state or private institutional programs there are available to oversee a child educated in the home vary so dramatically from state to state, I don't know if this is a question that *can* be hammered out completely in a uniform way.

 

I don't know if the ethical question rests entirely on the question of whether or not the student is a homeschooler either. I mean, we could take homeschooling per se out of it to some extent.

 

Is it ethical to use all the benefits of a program and then drop out at the last minute, hide that you got your advantages from that program, and present yourself as having designed your own program instead?

 

If you don't like the grade you got or the terms of a program you did, is it ethical to present yourself as having self-educated to get the knowledge you now have because it will look better to the person evaluating you?

[freesia]

This isn't necessarily directed at your post in particular, but yours addresses both aspects of the underlying problem here. 

 

Aren't the problems stated exactly why people are so uptight about the label in general?  People who traditionally school at an institution usually have no idea how incredibly complex it is and aren't able to discern when the label would apply and when it wouldn't.  Even here in the community most likely to grasp the complexity people are struggling to understand each other and communicate their thoughts clearly because people are so afraid of upsetting the sensitive mommies that we can't clarify terms. The point of terms: words, labels, and classifications is to communicate ideas.  Different ideas usually have different terms.  Agreeing on the meaning of a term is essential for clear communication.

 

 

I think the sensitive mommies who are defensive about clarifying terms need to bow out of these discussions and let people who are objectively trying to clear things up carry on with hammering this out. Not addressing it doesn't solve anything, and who knows what consequences there could be to parents, students, and schools by allowing all this confusion to go on indefinitely.

 

 

Ok, so how would you characterize my children?

Legally in the state we reside they are homeschoolers, but there transcripts will be from a State which would consider them private school students?

 

[Tidbits of Learning]

Let's suppose, for the purposes of argument, your child does K-12 (  or Acellus, or Compass Learning)  independently.  You pay out of pocket, use the curriculum, and teach your child. At the end of high school, you create the transcript.

 

Let's suppose Suzie's kiddo uses K-12 (or Acellus, or Compass Learning, or any of the other resource providers that also offers an option to maintain grades)  through a cyber school. The state pays for it, she uses it to teach her child.  At the end of the day, the State or company  has created her transcript.

 

Which one of these children can apply to college as a 'home-schooler' or can both?  Only the one that is required to register as a homeschooler with the state can apply as a homeschooler.  The virtual school student must use the transcript and in fact it is kept in a state database that colleges can access. Neither child has ever stepped inside a b&m school and Mom has always done all the teaching.

 

Can both Moms equally claim to have 'homeschooled' their child?  No, virtual is online public and you are not homeschooling.  It is implicitly written and signed by the parent that it isn't homeschooling.  Is the child who used a cyber-school ethically required to submit a transcript from the school as a 'public-schooler'.  Ethics or not, they have no other choice.  The public school transcripts from all public schools are now in databases with the state that colleges can pull from without the student having to have them sent once they apply and they do check them.  A cyber school student that receives a state diploma is a public schooler.

 

Would you feel the same if both moms used eclectic curricula chosen for their child  from an assortment of sources but one still had a cyber or charter umbrella? If you are issued a state diploma as a cyber or charter school that receives funds as your student is a public school student, then you are a public school student.  There is no gray area.

 

Consider that the reason for wanting to be a 'home-schooler' is because there are some colleges that look favorably upon kids educated at home. You may be surprised as most have to make high ACT/SAT scores as homeschoolers and colleges have packages with public schools for specific scholarships.  If it is a public school scholarship, then it is for public school kids.  If it is a homeschool scholarship or incentive, then public school kids are not eligible and that includes any student receiving a diploma from a charter or virtual in their state.

 

I understand that post-secondary classes must follow a student but do you feel that a public school transcript must? Yes, even if you switch to homeschooling after your student has begun high school and received credits in a public/private high school...you must request those transcripts to send to colleges when the time comes to apply.  You can not take those credits and make a "homeschool" transcript that includes credits not received at home.  The student would have multiple high school transcripts.  The same way if you go to a few colleges, they want the real transcript from each one not just the last one attended with all the transfers.

 

If someone forged a transcript after graduating from public school and receiving a state diploma for financial gain or admittance to a college institution, they would be committing fraud and could be prosecuted as such.

 

 

[maize]

In terms of ethics, I think the question has been satisfactorily answered: ask the college/university what they want.

 

Alternatively, err on the side of More Information.

Edited December 16, 2017 by maize

[maize]

 

I've spoken with admissions at my Alma Mater and they require cyber charter school students to apply as homeschoolers unless the school grants a regionally accredited diploma (many do not).

 

Your answers are not universally accepted by university admissions offices.

Edited December 15, 2017 by maize

[HS Mom in NC]

I'm not suggesting that we stick with the big 3 (homeschool, private school, public school) and then argue how we’ll classify everyone into them-that’s been the root of the problem all long. I’m saying we need more terms that are generally used in a consistent way about what kind of instruction is going on.  We already differentiate between brick and mortar public school, online public school, brick and mortar public charter school, online public charter school, brick and mortar private school, (secular or religious) online private school and dual enrollment.   Generally, most people I have education option discussion with have a grasp of the differences in those and know what people mean when they use those terms.   I live in a state that embraces every kind of option available, but is using outdated terminology.

As always, different contexts and different audiences would require more or less detailed jargon, but let's remember that jargon is extremely useful in certain situations, so developing some clearer terms is appropriate. This is not an exhaustive list and it’s not set in stone.

 

Institutional Terms: On site public school, On site public charter school, On site private school, Community Schooling, online public school, online public charter school, online private school.

I would suggest replacing brick and mortar with on site because on site isn't cumbersome and is already understood in a business sense among the masses.

Community Schools This one is less common but it does exist here.  It’s private school instruction, curriculum selection, scheduling, and the like for a few days a week and the other days the parents supervise the kids completing the assignments.  It’s basically private school because the parents are doing the same thing other private school parents are doing, but are more likely to have to answer questions and teach time management skills.  So, it’s different than just private school 5 days a week.

Homeschooling Terms: In house homeschooling, Outsourced homeschooling (with professional and/or volunteers,) Scripted homeschooling, Umbrella homeschooling.

 

In house would be natural fit in a homeschooling context. In house homeschooling would mean the parent is making the decisions, spending the money, instructing, and evaluating in their own house.
 

Outsourced would mean the parent finds a tutoring, co-op, or a class option (in person or video instruction) for the legally registered homeschooled kid. When homeschoolers talk shop knowing if a parent outsourced a subject vs. in housed it matters.  There’s no point in asking the parent who outsourced a subject (like me) for ideas on how to help your kid struggling with a particular concept, or specific questions about teaching techniques, concepts, scope and sequence, evaluating progress, etc.  Parents who only outsource from co-op/paid class to co-op/paid class have little to contribute to a conversation about comparing/selecting curriculum, setting up a schedule, using different teaching techniques, adapting materials to meet individual academic needs, etc.  but they can be a valuable resource for what outsourced options are available and what they do or don’t like about them.
 

Professional vs. Volunteer might apply as a secondary classification here under outsourcing. A certified teacher or someone with professional experience teaching the class is different than a volunteer with no certification, so terminology that differentiates them would be useful.  Whether they’re advertised to the homeschooling community, discussing it as an option within the homeschooling community, or listed on a transcript for an institution, it’s clearer in a person’s mind what kind of educational option it is.  Some homeschoolers only pay for classes taught by a certified teacher or someone with professional experience in certain subjects. 
 

Something with the term Scripted like scripted subject or scripted class that indicates that the parent is reading the curriculum writer's instructive/explanatory words to the student or the student is reading the curriculum writer's instructive/explanatory words to him/herself. We all know if we’re the person who wants a scripted curriculum or not.  The term gets used to some degree already, so making it more widely used can make discussions clearer.  I’m guessing a school that wants details about a class might find that Susan Wise Bauer (teacher of English Composition at William and Mary if I remember correctly) explaining and instructing writing classes for the student is a useful piece of information.

Umbrellas aren’t necessary where I live because we allow for all sorts options, so I don’t have anything to say about them, other than they should be a term people are familiar with and it’s possible some other terms for clarification might be useful.


Thoughts on this? What makes things clearer for you?  What are you often explaining to people what could use a generally accepted term? What have you had to explain to admissions staff and guidance counselors?
 

[lewelma]

I have not read the entire thread, but we have just finished all our applications and have talked to a number of admissions people. A couple things about our situation: DS applied to american universities as an american citizen. He applied as a homeschooler even though he has a full NZ diploma given by New Zealand that is equivalent in all manners to any school student. DS attended a correspondence school. All New Zealand homeschoolers get money from the state, so we did too.  Even after all of this, all the universities told us to have him apply as a homeschooler for a number of reasons. 1) he took numerous classes at home that we wanted to count, and 2) he never set foot in a B&M school, and 3) he had transcripts from 4 accredited bodies with an additional 5 providers and I wanted to list them

 

We were told by more than one school that they wanted to know what his non-traditional education looked like.  Non-traditional does not equal homeschooling. They specifically said non-traditional education, and I took that as a broader interpretation. So in my counselor letter I described how he designed his own courses, was integrated into his community in multi-age groups (so not just ECs in a school setting), that he had to self-regulate his day and teach himself, etc.  If I had let the correspondence school take the role of main school, then they would have done all the paperwork.  So their counselor letter, no course descriptions, no homeschooled classes, no homeschool philosophy, etc.  If they had done this role instead of me, ds would not have his education accurately represented.  The goal is to describe the educational environment that your student has performed within. He had to apply as a homeschooler to be honest to his high school years.

 

DS just got into MIT, so apparently what we did was acceptable. :001_smile:

 

Ruth in NZ

[regentrude]

DS just got into MIT, so apparently what we did was acceptable. :001_smile:

 

:hurray: Congratulations!!! :party:

[Storygirl]

Sounds like we were in the same boat. I used IDEA when we lived in the muni, and literally all we did was report grades and progress reports to them, fill out a form indicating what we were using, and attend stabdardized testing when applicable. I used all the programs I wanted, taught them entirely myself, kept all my own grades, and the only co op I ever used was for play stuff and exteacurriculars, once a week, for a few years.

 

IDEA reimbursed some of the cost of lessons and the materials. They also organized some things like book clubs and field trips, which we never much got into.

 

Now, some moms did use the program with more structured teaching, but there were rules in place specifically about mom being the primary teacher. So nothing with a hired teacher or tutor could be engaged in that was a core subject, and be reimbursed. Like math tutoring? You had to pay for that privately. But music lessons or a language tutor was okay because it wasn’t considered one of the four core subjects.

 

The rules on that were actually pretty clear. And even the program run in concurrence with the ASD followed the same lines. Despite their tighter control of the curriculum choices, the method and individual controlling the instruction had to be mom. If another adult was physically present teaching the lesson in real time, or over Skype, it wasn’t homeschooling by the definition.

 

No issues with colleges recognizing the parent issues diplomas either.

 

I admit I’m a little stuck here in Ohio, because I’m trying to figure it how to order proctored state testing without the help of a big group of homeschoolers :o. And we can certainly afford less extracurriculars without the stipend yearly. I do miss those things about AK!

 

Now one can still be an independent homeschooler with no umbrella school up there, but it’s more rare and is treated the same way by the state, effectively. And someone using an online school wouldn’t be factored in because of the definition in the state. I also wouldn’t call a kiddo doing high school at home through the district a homeschooler. They’re doing independent home study with the public school, but technically the teaching help and materials are not done primarily by mom, but by the district.

 

Arctic Mama,

You can proctor the test yourself. You can order the Stanford 10 from BJU, for example, and administer it yourself to your children. You then send the results to the superintendent when you notify for the next school year.

[GoodGrief]

 

 

We were told by more than one school that they wanted to know what his non-traditional education looked like.  Non-traditional does not equal homeschooling. They specifically said non-traditional education, and I took that as a broader interpretation. So in my counselor letter I described how he designed his own courses, was integrated into his community in multi-age groups (so not just ECs in a school setting), that he had to self-regulate his day and teach himself, etc.  If I had let the correspondence school take the role of main school, then they would have done all the paperwork.  So their counselor letter, no course descriptions, no homeschooled classes, no homeschool philosophy, etc.  If they had done this role instead of me, ds would not have his education accurately represented.  The goal is to describe the educational environment that your student has performed within. He had to apply as a homeschooler to be honest to his high school years.

 

 

I like the term non-traditional education for homeschooling under the various programs in our unique state situation.

 

People keeping using the term "cyber charter" or "online school", which gives the impression that these kids are being educated via online programs. While some may opt for that, it's simply not the case for the vast majority in our state.

[lewelma]

:hurray: Congratulations!!! :party:

 

He was *very* excited.  I posted on the college board yesterday, and my general thanks was mostly directed at you!  Thanks so much for taking the time to understand our dilemma for how to represent him. Your questions were targeted, and your suggestions incredibly useful. Boy was it hard, but we did it and I was very proud of the package we put together.  

[Tammi K]

I have not read the entire thread, but we have just finished all our applications and have talked to a number of admissions people. A couple things about our situation: DS applied to american universities as an american citizen. He applied as a homeschooler even though he has a full NZ diploma given by New Zealand that is equivalent in all manners to any school student. DS attended a correspondence school. All New Zealand homeschoolers get money from the state, so we did too.  Even after all of this, all the universities told us to have him apply as a homeschooler for a number of reasons. 1) he took numerous classes at home that we wanted to count, and 2) he never set foot in a B&M school, and 3) he had transcripts from 4 accredited bodies with an additional 5 providers and I wanted to list them

 

We were told by more than one school that they wanted to know what his non-traditional education looked like.  Non-traditional does not equal homeschooling. They specifically said non-traditional education, and I took that as a broader interpretation. So in my counselor letter I described how he designed his own courses, was integrated into his community in multi-age groups (so not just ECs in a school setting), that he had to self-regulate his day and teach himself, etc.  If I had let the correspondence school take the role of main school, then they would have done all the paperwork.  So their counselor letter, no course descriptions, no homeschooled classes, no homeschool philosophy, etc.  If they had done this role instead of me, ds would not have his education accurately represented.  The goal is to describe the educational environment that your student has performed within. He had to apply as a homeschooler to be honest to his high school years.

 

DS just got into MIT, so apparently what we did was acceptable. :001_smile:

 

Ruth in NZ

 

MIT is my son's dream school!!  (He was born in Australia, so almost next door neighbors. ;)  ) 

 

[Tammi K]

Oh yay! Thanks for the tips, I’ll look into it. I think Seton does one too, don’t they?

 

Yes, inexpensive and results come quickly.