old

[Carol in Cal.]

They really stepped up to the plate and did the honorable thing to help people plan, knowing that it would probably cost them a fair amount of business.

 

I have to say that I expect a long slow slide out of business for them now, and that makes me very sad. It is really, really expensive to print out masses of stuff on a 'one of' basis, and when people make that calculation, not to mention the hassle factor, I think that this will be a much more difficult sell. And TOG is difficult to figure out without seeing it in person, and this just takes it that much further from view.

 

Sonlight is so forward thinking, and is their main competition I believe, and is so convenient because it's all 'boxed up' compared to TOG, which is going to be less convenient than ever. Also, there are other curricula that are more worldview oriented--Cornerstone's newish offerings come to mind--that are probably going to provide even more competition for them.

 

I wish that in advance of making this decision they had asked publicly for financial participation of one sort or another--maybe had a private investment offering or converted to a non-profit and solicited donations or something like that. But I really respect them a lot for their transparency.

[Trivium Academy]

Well we've bought Y1, Y2, and Y3 Redesigned and only have to get Y4 before we'll be done. Honestly, I wish they'd print Y4 and send out the CDs to all customers who have bought the Redesigned Year Plans for free. I can't imagine them doing that so now I have printed versions that will only be as good as I keep them (just as I originally thought I would do).

 

I hope the cost is significantly less due to printing, I will still print Y4 out because I need to "hold" something tangible although I would appreciate the digital for planning/notebooking purposes. It's a smart move but the problem of pirated copies will probably arise. It's not like someone couldn't take a Year Plan now and get it photocopied but it would be at a cost...

 

I am more worried about the status of the Share & Save program and the current gift certificates I have- whether they will be honored. The Share & Save program was the only way we were able to purchase the books we have. What is in our Year Plans is what we'll use regardless of out-of-print books, new recommendations, etc. - I just don't have time to keep up. Our gift certificates is a big deal to me, I was depending on it to buy Year 4 Redesigned.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Well, we are new TOG users but we are enjoying the program very much and I appreciate all the research and extra elements that go into the product.

 

First, the cost...Sure it is a lot of money but I'm confident that thousands of hours of work have gone into developing, writing and editing the contents. Permission to copy materials can cost money. They have a staff to pay, warehouse and shipping to support. And-as for printing-I think a trip to Kinkos to print worksheets is outrageous when I go so their costs must be huge. I have noticed that homeschoolers frequently think that materials should cost what they want to pay rather than reflect the company's costs. For more expensive programs like TOG and IEW I just budget it in and deal with the consequences.

 

Secondly, I think the day advance on TOGs letter was to let their current customers have the news early. I believe that the company is trying to be loyal to the people who support them and perhaps even give them first crack at finishing their TOG collection by giving them a bit of notice to get their pre-orders in early. The letter seems to be burried on the web site but there are plenty of notices on the Bookshelf and Lampstand sites that discuss limited availability.

 

What did I do when I heard? Well, I promply pre-ordered Year 3 (which I was planning on ordering later this month anyway). I also ordered Year 1 which I would like to have in the future and am glad I had the funds to do so. While I had been shopping used copies on the internet for Year 1 I decided to order it directly as my offer of support for the company. The friend who inspired me to homeschool also left me with the philosophy of buying direct when possible and when it is in the budget. In that way we offer some small support to those who are trying to provide quality materials to homeschoolers.

 

As for the digital product-I think you can only compare it to a bundled product. At the minimum they now have the ability to combine Map Aids, Evaluations, Loom, Lapbook Printables, Writing Aids worksheets and TOG on one CD-ROM with everything linked to its proper place in the sequence. Wow would that save me time putting it all together. The digital copy will be easier and faster to update as changes come out or books are replaced. I am seriously considering buying a digital copy to complement my hard copies. I do hope as part of their customer loyalty program they offer a discount to current plan owners when purchsing digital copies.

 

Finally-for those who love hard copies...Perhaps someone with connections at Lampstand could suggest that they get a printer who has access to the necessary files and will set an agreed upon price per unit or year to produce a hard copy. So-for example-if you buy a digital copy from Lampstand they will give you a special "code" and you may contact the printer privately to purchase your hard copy (ideally at a rate cheaper than you would get at Kinkos). I understand that there are flaws in that plan that need to be worked out but maybe there is a way for them to license a printer to produce people's hard copies on an individual basis, as a private contract with the purchaser so that TOG doesn't need to keep stock.

 

I'm glad that the company is looking for options and not just folding. Hopefully that is not just loyalty to their customers but will also prove to be good business sense.

[dawn of ns]

I'm not a TOG user but I do wonder about something. For those that prefer hard copies there is Kinkos. As far as that goes couldn't TOG do as Classical Writng has and go the Lulu route?

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Pata]

Anything that cuts out the incredibly prohibitive shipping costs for homeschool material is a winner here. Digital will make it possible for many overseas people to consider TOG.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking! Maybe TOG is still a possibility for us for logic stage!

[Holly IN]

I am SSSSSOOOOOO glad!!!!! I can't wait. I really do not want the printed version if they get the orders they need. Give me electronic anytime!! Whooo hoooo!! I am so excited!! Yahooo!!:party::party::party:

 

This would make "making workbooks" so much easier on me!!

 

Holly

[Melissa in CA]

I'm not a TOG user but I do wonder about something. For those that prefer hard copies there is Kinkos.

 

Have you ever seen a full TOG year? It is A LOT OF PAPER!! LOL!

 

We, of course, do not yet know how much a DE of TOG is going to cost, but let's say the DE version only costs $100 compared to the $200 they are charging for the pre-order sale. I imagine printing it out would cost a guesstimation of about $50+ at kinkos here where I live (Did I happen to mention that it's A LOT OF PAPER? :w00t:). So that makes my cost around $150. Then there is just the hassle of taking it TO Kinkos. The 30 minute drive there and back. And on top of that, the possibility that a DE version of TOG may not come to fruition after all and these print-runs may be the very last! :001_huh: (doubtful, but one never knows).

 

So, long story short, I'll pay the $200 for peace of mind, and having my year plan delivered to my door intact and ready for my notebook. :D

[Guest]

We, of course, do not yet know how much a DE of TOG is going to cost, but let's say the DE version only costs $100 compared to the $200 they are charging for the pre-order sale. I imagine printing it out would cost a guesstimation of about $50+ at kinkos here where I live (Did I happen to mention that it's A LOT OF PAPER? :w00t:). So that makes my cost around $150.

 

I guessed a similar price tag as you.

 

Well, unfortunately I got their November newsletter today. Their guessing their digital edition (1 whole year plan) is going to cost $170-180 for the 2009 year. They also said it would cost you approx. $100 (additional) if you want to print it out yourself on your computer. I'm a little confused as to the math here? (I hope someone can tell me that I read their newsletter really wrong!)

 

I had my heart set on using it, but probably won't with that price tag. Also, I have a hard time not seeing the whole thing in my hand. For example, a lot of their pages are age/stage coded at the bottom of the page. That means when I pull up a page, I have to wait for it to load, scroll down to see what age/stage it's referring to and then go back up to read the assignment. Not real thrilled.

 

So I am bummed beyond bummed.

[chaik76]

I guessed a similar price tag as you.

 

Well, unfortunately I got their November newsletter today. Their guessing their digital edition (1 whole year plan) is going to cost $170-180 for the 2009 year. They also said it would cost you approx. $100 (additional) if you want to print it out yourself on your computer. I'm a little confused as to the math here? (I hope someone can tell me that I read their newsletter really wrong!)

 

I had my heart set on using it, but probably won't with that price tag. Also, I have a hard time not seeing the whole thing in my hand. For example, a lot of their pages are age/stage coded at the bottom of the page. That means when I pull up a page, I have to wait for it to load, scroll down to see what age/stage it's referring to and then go back up to read the assignment. Not real thrilled.

 

So I am bummed beyond bummed.

Hmm...I was really excited about the digital edition. I just can't imagine paying that much for a digital edition of anything though. So I might not end up getting it after all. It does take money to set up a DE, and they will have licensing costs, but the actual cost should be much lower than that...it seems like they would make a good profit selling much lower than that. Urgh. More decisions. I was so looking forward to this, but that's just too much money...

(It wouldn't cost me that much to print the whole thing out though...I have a laser printer, so it would be much less for me. But for those who are using toner...the cost of this looks like it will be more expensive than what they formerly paid with printing costs.)

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[TraceyS/FL]

That price point would be a bummer. I could maybe go $150 - but at $100, i'd be there for sure (and i'm not sure when/if we are going to use it). At the higher cost, i just couldn't justify buying it to look at and use parts - i'll have to wait until we reach that point.

 

:(

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Guest]

I was a little surprised at the price for DE first when I read the newletter as well. But when you figure that curriculums like MFW, SL, and WP charge $50-70 for their TM that covers only one year....so I can kind of understand why TOG is charging $170 because it includes K-12 content. I am still trying to decide what I am doing next year...but I can understand paying more for program that covers K-12...you pay for what you get...and with TOG that is a lot! I am still waiting for $400 to magically appear in my mailbox so that I can pre-order years 2 & 3:tongue_smilie:.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Guest

[Karenciavo]

I guessed a similar price tag as you.

 

Well, unfortunately I got their November newsletter today. Their guessing their digital edition (1 whole year plan) is going to cost $170-180 for the 2009 year. They also said it would cost you approx. $100 (additional) if you want to print it out yourself on your computer. I'm a little confused as to the math here? (I hope someone can tell me that I read their newsletter really wrong!)

 

I had my heart set on using it, but probably won't with that price tag. Also, I have a hard time not seeing the whole thing in my hand. For example, a lot of their pages are age/stage coded at the bottom of the page. That means when I pull up a page, I have to wait for it to load, scroll down to see what age/stage it's referring to and then go back up to read the assignment. Not real thrilled.

 

So I am bummed beyond bummed.

 

No, you didn't read it wrong. I would have thought people would be more upset at not being able to resell the product. The newsletter also mentioned a TOG DE price of $150 till January 15, 2009 although I can't find it on the Bookshelf.

 

The color code may be at the bottom of the page, but the top of the page has the level written on it. I guess it would be a bit of a pain to load pages if you have an older, slower computer, but if you have one that was made in the last 3-5 years it shouldn't take that long to load. Have you looked at the samples of TOG DE?

 

Over all I am excited about the advantages of having the whole product digital, but I am surprised the price isn't lower.

[home4school]

 

1. Based upon our costs, we project that the proper retail price for Tapestry of Grace DE will be $45 per unit or $170 for the year-plan during the 2009 selling season.
   
2. We don't anticipate any changes to the retail prices of our supplements: Evaluations, MapAids, Writing Aids, Tapestry Lapbooks, or Pop Quizzes.
   

The sale price for Year 1 until November 15—this Saturday, at 5 PM—is $180 for the year-plan and $225 for the Bonus Bundle.

 

 

Do I understand this correctly? The printed version is $180 and then the digital that you have to print yourself is $170? And you still have to buy the evals, mapaids, writing aids, etc. separately with digital?

 

I have wanted ToG for the last 2 years, but couldn't afford it. I hoped this DE was the answer, but if I understand this right, it could essentially cost more with DE.

 

Please let me know if I am not understanding this!

 

Blessings,

Kim

[Jackie in AR]

The sale price for Year 1 until November 15—this Saturday, at 5 PM—is $180 for the year-plan and $225 for the Bonus Bundle.

 

 

Do I understand this correctly? The printed version is $180 and then the digital that you have to print yourself is $170?

 

I think that price quote for Year 1 is the printed version, for both the Year 1 plan only and the plan that would be included in the Bonus Bundle. But it is the sale price for that year only.

 

ETA: Oh, I get what you're asking. Yes, it does sound like DE will cost more in the long run if you decide to have the whole plan printed. $170 plus the cost of printing, which they are estimating to be about $25 per unit.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Jackie in AR

[siloam]

I bought year 2 classic for $60, year 3 classic for $85 (with map aids and reproducible CD), and was given year 4 classic (with reproducible CD). Year 1 is the only redesign I own, and again I didn't pay new price, and paid more than I normally would because we (dh and I) wanted to bless the family I bought it from. Now that I own all 4 years I just don't see a reason to pay $170 for something "newer". Even if they keep the 50% upgrade I am looking at paying $80 for something a wee bit better when what I have is working fine. If it were a core subject, maybe. But only one of my kids love history the rest are ho hum about it (with anything I have used), so why should I sink a bunch more $$ into it? Not slamming TOG here they have a right to charge what they think they can get. It is just too rich for me, and I will probably just stick with the classic.

 

Heather

 

[home4school]

On the one hand, even with the printed version, I can see that it does covers K-12, so you can try to justify the price.

 

But, on the other hand, the are selling to hs families, who are normally one income. If they lowered their price point they would certainly sell more. Even though their profit margin on each sell would be smaller, I could see them making more money. People would be more likely to give it a try and see if they can make it work for their family if the investment was not so great. They could probably get the people who want it, but are scared of the "fog" factor.

 

I have wanted it for two years, but the $$ scared me away. When you hear about the fog, etc. I just was too afraid to put that much money into something that seems difficult to get the hang of.

 

I am truly afraid for them with the price point they have decided on for the DE. The way only to truly get the feel for the way to use ToG is to flip back and forth thru the pages reading. I was able to borrow a friend's and I literally, for weeks, I just read and flipped and read and flipped, then one day the light bulb kind of came on. But, with DE, I don't see that comfort zone and digging into the plan and figuring it out. And I can't stand to sit and read things on the computer screen.

 

The newsletter also said that due to budget issues, they wouldn't be at any 09 conferences. That is going to be a hard hit. I can't imagine spending that much on something on a CD that you can't see.

 

I have tried to use the sample they offer, but there again, I can't stand trying to read off the screen and to print it out was over 70 pages, if I remember correctly. Granted, for our level, I probably didn't need all the pages, but I couldn't get in the groove and figure out what we needed or how to use it.

 

I am just really disappointed. I thought the DE would be less expensive enough that I could finally get it.

 

Oh, well...

 

Kim

Edited November 15, 2008 by home4school

[Tonia]

Over all I am excited about the advantages of having the whole product digital, but I am surprised the price isn't lower.

 

:iagree: I think it's a great idea to go digital BUT the price is much higher than I expected a digital product to be (especially considering it is something you can't resell).

[Quiver0f10]

BUT the price is much higher than I expected a digital product to be (especially considering it is something you can't resell).

 

I have a real issue with this too.

[Heather in VA]

But when you figure that curriculums like MFW, SL, and WP charge $50-70 for their TM that covers only one year....so I can kind of understand why TOG is charging $170 because it includes K-12 content. .

 

This was my thought as well. I don't use TOG but what it contains for that $170 is far more than say a WP or MFW guide at about $100 for one level/one year and is pretty similar in content to SL which again is one level/one year for $80 or so. If you do that a few times you are well over the $170 for TOG. Just because it's a digital product doesn't mean it will be cheap. There is still significant content to the product.

 

Heather

[jg_puppy]

I am another one who has been considering TOG for the last 2 years. I would really love to use TOG. I was hoping that the digital version would make it more affordable for our family. I am a little surprised at where they set the price for the DE. I expected the price to be lower to account for not being able to resell as well as paying for printing costs.

 

Jan

[Donna A.]

This was my thought as well. I don't use TOG but what it contains for that $170 is far more than say a WP or MFW guide at about $100 for one level/one year and is pretty similar in content to SL which again is one level/one year for $80 or so. If you do that a few times you are well over the $170 for TOG. Just because it's a digital product doesn't mean it will be cheap. There is still significant content to the product.

 

Heather

 

Well, this isn't quite accurate. Each SL IG covers only one subject, so you have to buy multiple IGs for all the subjects.

 

Each MFW TM covers ALL subjects, including scheduling for their extracurriculars. And MFW can/will be used again repeatedly through the elementary years (unless you have only child).... I'm not sure about SL, because my kids are too far apart and I would've had to use two or more Cores. That was way too cost (and time) prohibitive for me.

 

MFW also includes a built-in cost savings by including the *necessary* resources and scheduled read-alouds in their Basic and Deluxe packages, then extra reading can be purchased separately or obtained from the library. (These are optional, so you pick and choose the ones you want.) The booklist inside the TM is massive in all the chronological year programs.

 

It's true that with MFW you have to purchase a whole new package for the high schoolers, but you'd have to purchase a whole new set of books/resources for a TOG high schooler, too. MFW high school is written for the student to work independently and be college-prep, in order to give the high schooler plenty of time for community service activities, internships, and so on, and still get their academics done, too. The elementary years are meant to be family-oriented similar to TOG.

 

I don't really know much about WP.

[Zee]

I hate to say it, but I had a feeling the cost would be high. I'm not really surprised. My ds will be in Rhetoric for Year 4, by the time we get to that. I think I am going to have to look at the Classic and see what advantage there would be for me to get the Redesigned for that level. If anyone has any thoughts on this to help me think this through I would appreciate it. I am one who would probably print the plan, so the printed classic at $150 seems like a better deal for me. Add to that I have only one child and at the Rhetoric level then, so will only be able to use it once. What do ya'll think? What upgrades were there for the Rhetoric level in the Redesigned? Do evaluations and mapaids work with the classic? I need to go eat some chocolate......

[Guest]

Well, this isn't quite accurate. Each SL IG covers only one subject, so you have to buy multiple IGs for all the subjects.

 

Each MFW TM covers ALL subjects, including scheduling for their extracurriculars. And MFW can/will be used again repeatedly through the elementary years (unless you have only child).... I'm not sure about SL, because my kids are too far apart and I would've had to use two or more Cores. That was way too cost (and time) prohibitive for me.

 

MFW also includes a built-in cost savings by including the *necessary* resources and scheduled read-alouds in their Basic and Deluxe packages, then extra reading can be purchased separately or obtained from the library. (These are optional, so you pick and choose the ones you want.) The booklist inside the TM is massive in all the chronological year programs.

 

It's true that with MFW you have to purchase a whole new package for the high schoolers, but you'd have to purchase a whole new set of books/resources for a TOG high schooler, too. MFW high school is written for the student to work independently and be college-prep, in order to give the high schooler plenty of time for community service activities, internships, and so on, and still get their academics done, too. The elementary years are meant to be family-oriented similar to TOG.

 

I don't really know much about WP.

 

From what I am researching, :iagree:

 

Although they're both definitely "fruit", I don't think we can say we're comparing apples to apples here. :D

[Hen]

I had a feeling the DE would be high, I already pre-ordered the hard copies. Looking through the TOG year I have, I can see that it is really well done and very thorough...they put a lot of work into it, and I feel the worker is due his labor, so I don't begrudge them the price. There is a lot of content in a year plan, and you can use it over and over again with multiple children, multiple years. What price would we put on our own intellectual labor and research?

 

If we do go ahead and get the year 4 de, we are planning on not taking it to kinkos but probably a tech printing place to hopefully save money.

 

I do think you would print out less when you can go through the digital version and pick what you want to print out and skip other parts, but I also know how scattered I am, it would become a nightmare...so I would just print the whole thing out.

[Michelle My Bell]

About the previous post on MFW. I used MFW for several years and am now in my second year with TOG. Everything you said about MFW is true BUT MFW has A LOT less material in it. TOG is much richer in Teacher's Notes, Encyclopedia Info, Worksheets, the projects are a TON nicer, the writing and geography is very well done compared to MFW which is basically just "do a notebook page". TOG and MFW are not even in the same ballpark.

 

MFW also has a lot more Teacher's Manuals you would need to buy. They have K, 1st, Adventures, The Geography One (the name slips me right now) Creation to Greeks, Rome to Reformation, Explorer's-1850, 1850-present and then the High School TM.

 

With TOG you only buy 4 years worth of TM.

 

I think all the hard work that has gone into TOG, and my desire to see the company stay in buisness and be able to pay their employees a fair wage makes the cost of TOG digital VERY resonable.

 

Michelle

[Guest]

I had a feeling the DE would be high, I already pre-ordered the hard copies. Looking through the TOG year I have, I can see that it is really well done and very thorough...they put a lot of work into it, and I feel the worker is due his labor, so I don't begrudge them the price. There is a lot of content in a year plan, and you can use it over and over again with multiple children, multiple years. What price would we put on our own intellectual labor and research?

 

 

 

:iagree:And...with most programs you are only buying a TM for history/literature. But with TOG you get so much more...history, literature, writing, philosophy, church history, geography, extensive teacher notes, fine arts, in depth student pages, etc. You would still be paying extra for all those programs anyways. Like I said...I still do not know what I am doing next year...but I feel TOG is very justified in their price when you consider that it contains content for 12 grades and several subjects....jmo.

 

If we go with TOG next year and I have to get TOG DE...I will print out the whole thing because I do not want to constantly be on the computer all the time every time I forget something. I also like being able to glance ahead at other levels of learning to see where we are going.

[Heather in VA]

About the previous post on MFW. I used MFW for several years and am now in my second year with TOG. Everything you said about MFW is true BUT MFW has A LOT less material in it. TOG is much richer in Teacher's Notes, Encyclopedia Info, Worksheets, the projects are a TON nicer, the writing and geography is very well done compared to MFW which is basically just "do a notebook page". TOG and MFW are not even in the same ballpark.

 

MFW also has a lot more Teacher's Manuals you would need to buy. They have K, 1st, Adventures, The Geography One (the name slips me right now) Creation to Greeks, Rome to Reformation, Explorer's-1850, 1850-present and then the High School TM.

 

With TOG you only buy 4 years worth of TM.

 

I think all the hard work that has gone into TOG, and my desire to see the company stay in buisness and be able to pay their employees a fair wage makes the cost of TOG digital VERY resonable.

 

Michelle

 

This was what I was trying to say. It does not mean MFW is a bad product at all. But with everything that is in TOG, when you compare it to other programs, the new digital price is reasonable.

 

Heather

[*anj*]

Oh yes, then TOG is really not for you. Its not something to be sold every year.... once you have your guide its used till graduation or you decide to use something else... books for levels like grammar levels can be sold... but not the guide.

 

Lisa,

I'm so glad that you said this. Absolutely true. Unless you were teaching a 9th grader who was your only child, there would be no reason to sell TOG after using it one year. I know that it's not for everyone, and people can use whatever curriculum they like, but I wonder if some people actually even understand how it works.

[*anj*]

I had a feeling the DE would be high, I already pre-ordered the hard copies. Looking through the TOG year I have, I can see that it is really well done and very thorough...they put a lot of work into it, and I feel the worker is due his labor, so I don't begrudge them the price. There is a lot of content in a year plan, and you can use it over and over again with multiple children, multiple years. What price would we put on our own intellectual labor and research?

 

 

I think all the hard work that has gone into TOG, and my desire to see the company stay in business and be able to pay their employees a fair wage makes the cost of TOG digital VERY reasonable.

 

Michelle

 

I totally agree. I too had hoped to find the DE price to be lower, but I can't say I'm terribly surprised. We're talking about a company that is fighting for its life. I don't imagine that they can afford to make drastic price cuts right now. And when you look at TOG you really understand how much time and work went into it. The people whose blood, sweat, and tears went into that curriculum deserve to be paid for their work.

 

Just as an aside...

I agree that you can't exactly compare TOG to something like SL or MFW. I think that it would be better to go through a Veritas catalog and find all of the TMs and comprehension guides, etc. and figure out how much that Classical curriculum costs as compared to TOG.

 

And while I've never used SL, I have a friend who just this year switched from SL to TOG. She has two UG children, one R, and one D. Until now she has always used SL. She says that while it was easier for her to use SL because it was all laid out for you, there is no comparison content-wise. In her opinion, her children are learning significantly more through TOG than they learned with SL, and she doesn't think that SL would've been adequate for high school. Just one person's opinion, and anecdotal, but I wanted to mention it anyway.

[my4boysmom]

I bought Redesigned from someone a few months ago to use later this year. I am just hearing about this for the first time. I'm sad that this is happening to them. My heart goes out to them.

 

The cost of the DE is much higher than I would have thought it would have been. I just don't have the money for anything right now. I'm conflicted with what will happen to our TOG experience since I've barely put it together and used it. I'm super disappointed since I like the paper version but I'm open to the computer version also. The cost is what is alarming to me. I'm praying that we will find what we need when we need it because ultimately it's in Gods hands. I just don't know what to say.

 

:(

 

:confused:

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

The people at TOG/Lampstand may be very kind but they are still running a business. They still need to pay employees, pay to have the discs made, develop content, monitor content from all 4 years and review and find replacement texts as necessary, develop new activities/questions for the new texts, pay for their website and discussion forum hosting, and fund licenses with groups like World Book and Knowledge Quest.

 

They are putting a great deal of work into developing a quality interactive, truly digital product yet one that can still be printed and used in hard copy.

 

They are in the best position to know where their price point needs to be, no matter how much we may wish it were lower.

[chaik76]

Well, this isn't quite accurate. Each SL IG covers only one subject, so you have to buy multiple IGs for all the subjects.

 

 

Actually, this is not true. I own P3/4 through Core 5.

The SL IG covers History, Readers, Read-Alouds, and Bible. Language Arts and Science are separate.

 

ETA: Here's a link to a sample for Core 1...http://www.sonlight.com/uploads/1/1TB_2008_1.pdf

[Rhonda in TX]

I've been going back and forth on whether to get it or not and this decides it for me. I will not.

 

They are basically dropping the price by the cost of the printing. While I understand that to a certain extent, it now puts the burden and hassle of printing on me, and I would expect to be compensated for that with a lower price.

 

Also, it will not be resaleable, so any expense I expect to offset with the resell of the product is now lost. I might not plan on selling it after one year, but I would plan on selling it eventually. We are not positive we are homeschooling high school, so resale's a big concern.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Trivium Academy]

Now that I own all 4 years I just don't see a reason to pay

 

Exactly, after we buy Year 4, we're done. It's one of the reasons I chose TOG- to buy it once and have it for K-Mom. The versions we have is what we'll use no matter what else they come out with. I want Evaluations and MapAids for each year plan too.

 

I don't care if the books in the plans go out of print...we'll work around that somehow. If I were in decision mode about TOG at this point, it would be a very HARD decision, there aren't any other programs that offer as much as TOG does but all these changes would make me more skeptical.

[home4school]

If I were in decision mode about TOG at this point, it would be a very HARD decision, there aren't any other programs that offer as much as TOG does but all these changes would make me more skeptical.

 

 

Skeptical is exactly what I am now. I want this program soooo badly, but I am a little put off at how they are handling this whole thing. They say printing costs are what has hurt them, yet now they are offering the DE with very little discount, saying that printing shouldn't cost the family that much. The bit about no resell is upsetting. That would be like going to buy a new car and GM telling you that you could not resell or trade-in. That's how a lot of single-income hs families afford to buy curricula is selling the old. Of course, this would be reused again by the family, but what if it just didn't work for our family? What if something happened and we could no longer hs? Expensive lesson learned...

 

Maybe I should look at it like tuition to a private, Christian school. You don't get that back and you can't resell that!

 

And, yes I understand they have put a great deal of blood, sweat, and tears into this program. Yes, I understand that it does cover k-12. But, this is only the cost for the plan.....YOU STILL HAVE TO BUY THE BOOKS TO USE!

 

Ugh!:banghead: I still want it though!!!

 

"You can't always get what you want......" I can't get that song out of my head every time I think about this!

 

Kim

[jg_puppy]

When TOG first mentioned going digital they hinted that they also may offer it by level. Does anyone know if they are still considering that? That might be a way for us to spread the cost out enough for us to afford TOG since I only have 2 kids that are fairly close in age. Just wondering.

 

Jan

[The Governess]

I just bought the print version of year one. It was on sale through yesterday. We aren't starting for over a year but I figured if I buy it now, I won't have to print anything (and I'm definitely not a read-it-on-the-computer kind of girl). I'm hoping that the other years are still available by the time I convince dh to let me buy them. :D Not looking forward to printing them on my own, but I'll do it if I have to.

 

It seems that, if you are using this curriculum starting in grade 1 as it is intended, the cost is well worth it. Even with all the extras, it still only comes out to $70 or $80 per year. And as for all of the books that you need to buy, it's definitely an investment, but the books can be resold even if the curriculum cannot. Good books, though, are one of the few things I don't mind spending money on.

[Murphy101]

Now I can stop looking!

 

I don't buy digital stuff. I don't like buying much of anything digital. From anyone. I've found that whatever I might save in cost I more than make up in ink, computer paper, and time spent waiting for it to download, waiting for it to print, getting a paper jam and starting over, then finally getting it in a binder or folder. If I make it that far. Usually what happens is I lose it in the prehistoric cave that is my hard drive.

 

Basicly, I prefer 1 book on the shelf to 2 downloads on the computer. To update an old saying.

 

My books do not crash like my computer might.

My books can be tossed in the car to show friends at homeschool gatherings or to school on the road when neccessary.

My manuel books can be plucked off the shelf at any moment by an older sibling who can turn to a younger sibling and whisper, "I remember this stuff! You want me to read a book to you and show you some neat stuff afterwards?"

 

I just can't get that digital.

 

I also would NEVER buy something I couldn't resell. Period. Even if I did use it and enjoyed it, eventually I'd be done with it and look into selling it.

[siloam]

When TOG first mentioned going digital they hinted that they also may offer it by level. Does anyone know if they are still considering that? That might be a way for us to spread the cost out enough for us to afford TOG since I only have 2 kids that are fairly close in age. Just wondering.

 

Jan

 

Jan,

 

I asked over on the TOG forms for ya, and will let you know what they say. :)

 

Heather

 

[jg_puppy]

Jan,

 

I asked over on the TOG forms for ya, and will let you know what they say. :)

 

Heather

 

 

Thanks Heather.

 

Jan

[bethben]

I'm not a fan of digital. It took actually having a copy in my hand before we decided to go with TOG (next year mind you). So, as a result, I am pre-purchasing years 2 and 3. Then, I'll have only 1 year that I need to be annoyed with. I can handle that. I plan on using TOG for 3 kids for all 12 years, so in my opinion it's an investment in the future.

Beth

[Zee]

You bring in some good feedback. I still have my old version of Year 1 and looked it over to compare to what I see in the Redesign. The layout in the Redesign is just so much better for me to work with. Then I reread the stuff on the TOG website about classic vs. redesign and I remembered about the literature upgrade and the fact that all the questions weren't answered in the classic in the readings. The upgrades make me want redesigned. I don't want to have to hunt for answers and I don't want to have to "beef up" the literature section. But....I didn't really want to have to shell out the money for another year plan THIS year.

"If it were me, I would buy a Classic just to be sure I had a hard copy of something."

This has me worried too. In other words, you are thinking, in case they go out business at some point in the future? I was going to wait and buy the Year 3 extra's in another year, but I'll be buying them before long, I think. I want to make sure I have everything I need to progress unhindered should something unfortunate occur. I'm going to have to pray about this somemore. If anyone has any more comments on the classic Year 4 Rhetoric, I'm all ears.

[momee]

Zee,

we used Classic Yr 4 but with dialectic level. My son found it very frustrating to have such open ended questions posed to him using the materials in the reading assignments. Other than that, it worked well for me. It was alot of work but fruit sometimes takes work.

 

He is one year older but I have to say we're finding the gripes we had are less of an issue now with yr 1 redesign. I will say the workload is much more profitable than with SL (can't remember if you were considering them) that's for sure. To us, it's worth the higher price.

 

You know the bible verse - where else would I go - well that's my question with all this DE talk. I have not seen anything even close that allows me to educate all of my kids like TOG does. I'm using unit 3 of TOG red. yr 1 right now. We've now used all the years of TOG (1 being the only red. plan - the rest at classic).

 

We're just waiting it out and we'll buy whatever is available when we need it. I've read some ladies are able financially to pre-buy. Not us. We'll just take it by faith that God will work out what's best for our family when the time comes to buy the next year. Who knows, maybe we'll all be in heaven anyway~

[Wendi]

Ditto. I think it's great if there's a digital and hard copy option, like SL is contemplating, but I won't buy anything that is only available in digital format. I've looked at TOG off and on, and this move totally eliminates it from my radar now. I'm sure it's different if you've already been using and loving it though.

 

If you liked the curriculum otherwise, though, why couldn't you just buy the digital version, take it to Kinko's, and get it all printed and spiral-bound or hole-punched to put in a binder?

 

Wendi

[HappyGrace]

I'm trying to follow the whole thing, but getting confused since I haven't used TOG yet, but plan to for 5th grade and up (dd is in 3rd grade).

 

1. What would be the main advantages of the digital over the print copy? (I can't find that original letter from TOG.)

 

2. If I buy the digital copy for the projected $170, would that include all I'd need-Map Aids, Evaluations, Loom, etc.?

 

3. If I get the Redesigned print copy, what do I need to have with it to make it a complete product? The Loom on CD, MapAids and Evaluations, I'm guessing?

 

I can see the benefits of the digital: printing out extra copies of Student Activity Pages, etc. I would still want it all printed out though since I'm so visual. So I guess I'm trying to figure out why I'd want the digital over the currently available print. I can see where updates would be easier.

 

I guess at this point I'm worried that although I know it's "worth it" for the work they've put into it, the reality of it is that they may be pricing the DE too high and not allowing resale, and therefore running themselves out of business. I pray not.

 

So I'm thinking of erring on the side of caution and stocking up on the print copies in case the worst happens and they go out of business. But then I don't want to shoot myself in the foot by not having access to updates, etc.

 

I understand their financial problems. But I guess I'm a little put out that first there was the Classic, then the Redesigned, and now the DE making the other two obsolete!

[HappyGrace]

As it says in the post below, it looks like they're iffy about that. I do NOT want to have to pay for updates!!! If they charge that much for the digital product, I think one of the built in and free advantages should be updates.

 

 

Posted 14 November 2008 11:41 PM Hide Post

Will you have to pay for the updates?

 

 

Mom of 7Smiler

 

Posts: 72 | Registered: 30 May 2008 Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post

Ignored post by Quiverfull posted 14 November 2008 11:41 PM Show Post

Marcia

 

Posted 15 November 2008 06:52 AM Hide Post

Year 4 will be some kind of special case; we just don't know how it will all shake out yet, but thanks for the support! Just to know that everyone is trusting God with us and telling us what would work best for them is such a blessing! We do know that there are people like you out there, Tracey, and we'll bend over backwards to do what is best.

 

Updates. Again, we have to explore the delivery software. It is our hearts' desire to give people free and automatic updates for their version, but we have to be realistic about support staff. If there are ways to automatically deliver such updates without personal support, we would love to do this for everyone. We understand that the software we're exploring does do this, but we need to verify this for ourselves before making promises. THANKS for understanding and praying for us as we work to get this done!

 

 

Blessings,