Help me with a consequence

[Rebel Yell]

Our consequence for things like speeding, accidents, texting/phone use while driving are a loss of driving privileges, and if it is serious and the driver is under 18 the forfeit their license.

Definitions: going 30 in a 25 is not OK, but not "serious". A bumper scrape in a parking lot is not serious. Zero tolerance w texting- I LOVE it when the passenger texts back for her. Any drug use or underage drinking = no driving any car we own.

 

So... they got these rules along with their driving permit. The primary reason we allow them to drive as teens is so that we can ensure they are properly trained (at 18, mandatory hours and 6mos wait to test do not apply) but also to make MY life easier. So if they cannot drive, they either do not go, or they PAY $10.00 per hour ($5 minimum for short trips) including wait time, and also time if it's two round trips if the activity is long enough to drop off and return.

 

They know I will do this. I'm that mean mom who literally removed doors when they were slammed (age 8ish... never happened again) and an entire BED for jumping in it (age 4, also never happened again) so when one girl knocked a brick off the wall of her friend's driveway she was worried that she wouldn't be able to drive. Poor sweetie, it's a tight driveway on a bad road- friends mom said that brick is always getting knocked out by new and old drivers alike. So we reviewed and defined "serious" which is basically carelessness and recklessness.

 

Her Junior license also says she has to be off the roads by 11pm (except for work, school, church/volunteering) Even though we expect her to plan to be home with a little time to spare, stuff happens- like the GPS taking her on an "adventurous" route doubling travel time. But being in the driveway by 10:59 is NEVER EVER a reason to speed or be foolish. I do not punish for being late since it is a rare thing and has never happened because she lost track of time. Although once I was watching the clock fornher to come home, I took a screenshot- the time was 10:59:44, so she timed the drive from BFs house to within 16 seconds :D

[Guest]

84 in a 75 doesn't strike me as a punishable offense. And I'm weirded out by that app. Either he's mature enough to be trusted to drive a car and make decisions like when to speed up, or he isn't. Sounds like he and his dad already have a set of natural consequences in place. Obviously everyone's mileage literally varies here.

[Guest]

I grounded mine for six months, only thing he could do was drive me or go to work and back. I could care less that some drivers are going 84 in a 65 while most are at 74. "Keeping up with traffic" doesn't work in my book 'cause I know darn well that truckers are electronically monitored and most them aren't speeding more than 5 mph over. The kid does not have the funds to pay for his lawyer, as those who are speeding do.

 

In addition, his scoutmaster had the kindness to call me and set up a meeting with the lad for the speeding he noticed in town. Lad got the graphic detail on the consequences of speeding, the love of the community, and the sorrow when adult ambulance volunteers respond to teen deaths and injuries.  Alive at 25 is the goal here.

 

In the six months, the recurring driving lesson I gave was that road and tire conditions matter. Driving is privilege, not a right. Your signature matters...don't make an agreement if you don't intend to keep it.  Dh continued winter driving training.  Ds went to his older ex- teammate's funeral...the young man had come home from college for winter break, flipped his car and died. Speed was a factor. Road conditions weren't. Physics class was on the senior schedule and the teacher didn't waste the opportunity.

 

Ds has become a good driver, but it took maturity and recurring lessons. And there is a certain motor club here that I don't appreciate, as they drive their vehicles up to the track they use on the weekends...but I did learn to be very very predictable as they blew by me passing on the right at the equivalent of mach 1.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Heigh Ho

[JFSinIL]

Issue him speeding tickets.  Like look up what the speeding fine is in your area and charge him that.  Because really, if he gets pulled over, that's what he's going to have to pay anyway. 

 

This, and make it whatever the local police would make it. He can NOT drive until he pays you.

 

If his speeding is truly bad, I would take away his license altogether and arrange for him to take a safe driver course before he gets it back.   Do this before he turns 18.  Once he turns 18, if you provide the wheels at least you can take them away until he proves he took the course and/or pays his "tickets".

 

He will HATE this, but the alternative could be a bad accident in which he and/or others are maimed or killed.  Said the person still having surgery and being affected by an accident over three years ago caused by 20-year-olds blowing though a stop sign in front of us.

 

Bear in mind, too, if he is still a minor and gets in an accident, YOU are responsible for paying damages etc.  Our culprit had no insurance and was too old for her parents or their insurance to be held liable for our pain and suffering etc.

Edited October 5, 2017 by JFSinIL

[JFSinIL]

84 in a 75 doesn't strike me as a punishable offense. And I'm weirded out by that app. Either he's mature enough to be trusted to drive a car and make decisions like when to speed up, or he isn't. Sounds like he and his dad already have a set of natural consequences in place. Obviously everyone's mileage literally varies here.

 

 

 

If it is a short term burst of speed (passing a large truck one can't see through for example) that is one thing, consistently going over 80 is another.  75 is already pretty dang fast, and the faster one goes the more deadly an accident will be. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Late getting back to this...

 

I posted from my perspective as a person who lives where local speed limits do not exceed 55mph on the city loop, turnpikes, and parkways, and 65mph on the interstate. My cop friend was therefore talking about max speeds of 65 to 75mph in those "flow of traffic" situations.

 

I should have remembered that speed limits, customs, and actual laws vary greatly. Of course, I don't think 85 to 100mph on curvy roads is safe, nor do I think it's OK to commit misdemeanors or felonies while operating a moving vehicle.

 

But I still don't like that app. I agree with a pp that either the young man is trusted or he isn't, plus you can't get the full picture just from speed fluctuations. Again, this is just around here, but we have enough of a highway patrol presence that a reckless or speeding teen boy IS going to get pulled over, and the ticket will affect his insurance rates.

[Rachel]

I think 72 in a 75 is fine, you won't get a ticket for that unless you are also driving crazy. The 84 in a 75 is too much.

 

Given that you can't track how long he went the speed and that you already talked to him. I would let this particular incident go.

 

He knows when he's going 80+, what if he comes clean ahead of time? "Mom, I was about to get boxed in by a semi on the interstate so I went over 80 to pass a car.", for example. That situation wouldn't be ideal, but let's you know he was aware and was not speeding for very long. If it's happening too much, maybe he needs a refresher driving lesson with you.

 

If he's racing friends or just being silly I think he needs to lose driving privileges except to/from school and work unless he has a friend who could drive him.

 

Note- my kids aren't driving age yet.

[sheryl]

I "liked" your post - respect that you are wanting to help him make a change for the better aka "see the light" before it's so late (Heaven forbid an accident).

 

Does he pay for the car insurance?  If he's speeding, I agree with a pp who mentioned to issue a "ticket" and expect him to pay a monetary fine.  That's good.  However, it's still only a bandaid solution. 

 

He has to "want" to make this change for the better based on his insight of the situation (good and bad).  Good change = driving slower will consume less gas and save $, he and others "more" safe.  Bad (not changing) = what if another speeder caused an accident of one your ds loves?  Would he be heart broken to see a family member or friend in such a bad place?

 

I know this involves reasoning which is VERY difficult at this age.  

 

If all else fails or there is a "minor" accident (not life-threatening, obviously), I'd take his car/driving privilege away.

 

Lastly, perhaps there is another issue at hand and this only a symptom. 

 

I doubt a counselor will help, but maybe. 

 

 

[Wheres Toto]

We didn't have monitoring but for oldest dd we had punishments outlined if she got speeding tickets or other violations (like too many people in the car).  For each "minor" ticket, she lost the keys for a week.  For any major tickets (more than 10 mph over the speed-limit or school zone, etc.) she's lose them for a month.  And I wouldn't be driving her to anything outside of work and dance.

 

[sassenach]

Teach him how to use cruise control on the highways.

 

Personally, I'll have a male teen driver by next year and I've survived a female teen driver. We put GPS speed monitors is teen cars, and our consequence for repeated offenses would be that he would lose the privilege of driving for personal use. If he that didn't work, then he would have to pay me to chaperone him to and from school.

 

I'm not into the rewards for good behavior thing. The baseline expectation when an adult drives is that you 1) pay for the privilege, and 2) obey the laws. No cop is giving me a gold star for going the speed limit. The reward for going the speed limit is that you don't have to pay fines or increased insurance costs. 

 

 

[SanDiegoMom]

72 in a 65 is most likely going with traffic. I drive the interstate every day for 10 miles to bring my daughter to ballet, and the majority of traffic (in the left two lanes at least) is generally between 70 and 75, and sometimes 75-80.  Unless it's bumper to bumper with cars coming to sudden stops, it's not unsafe at all. 84 in pouring rain would definitely be more concerning, but again there are a lot of variables -- traffic, whether it was to pass other cars, etc. 

 

I am not a fan of constant monitoring though.  Maybe for some kids it would work, but it could foster resentment and more elaborate ways to avoid detection in order to create autonomy. Just my two cents though. 

[hornblower]

 

 

I'm not into the rewards for good behavior thing. The baseline expectation when an adult drives is that you 1) pay for the privilege, and 2) obey the laws. No cop is giving me a gold star for going the speed limit. The reward for going the speed limit is that you don't have to pay fines or increased insurance costs. 

 

In Canada, multiple cities do give out rewards. They're called positive tickets. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/20/positive-tickets-police-alternative

 

A US NHTSA study (experimentally small but still interesting) also found it worked to incentivize good driving. http://www.npr.org/2012/06/21/155454615/gps-study-shows-drivers-will-slow-down-at-a-cost

 

[Bootsie]

Have you checked how the technology records your own driving?  If there is a concern that he is accelerating for a short period to pass a vehicle and that it is associated with what you would consider safe, reasonable driving, I think you would get similar results from your own driving.  If it isn't happening when you are driving on the same roads, then the acceleration isn't necessary.

 

Would it help to have a stance of "We have a family commitment to safe driving and we are all accountable.  Now, let's see how everyone is doing and talk about it."?  and then compare every driver in the family's record to show what is and isn't acceptable?

[Terabith]

Given the nature of the app not being able to tell how long he is speeding or the circumstances, I would be more concerned about him spending all his attention on the speedometer rather than the road. Given he’s not going 20 miles over or anything, I’d just let natural consequences apply if he gets a real speeding ticket.

[retiredHSmom]

Where can you possibly live where going 10 mph over the speed limit is a felony?

 

I'm calling shenanigans, I seriously seriously doubt that is possible.

 

 

84 in a 75 to pass is perfectly reasonable; it doesn't matter what kind of car he is driving.  Furthermore, in some situations, the person going 75 in a 75 is making the more dangerous decision because the going rate on that road, for whatever reason, is 80+, and people have to keep passing the slow driver (passing is a lot more dangerous than everyone just staying in their own lane).

I think that the poster may be mistaken about a felony but here is Virginia driving over 80 mph or more than 15 mph over the speed limit (as long as it is less than 80) is a class 1 misdemeanor which is punishable by jail time.

[Scarlett]

The app logs anything over 75 mph as a high speed. So for instance he had three or four high speeds on a 20 minute drive. The little map shows exactly where he was when he reach that high speed. Then it also gives the top speed of each trip. So at bare minimum he got over 75 three different times. Since he's traveling on a 75 mile an hour turnpike that may or may not be a big deal. But the 84 miles an hour TopSpeed is the concern

[Janeway]

Addition to finding him, look for videos and memorials and stories of young children have been killed by speeding drivers.

[foxbridgeacademy]

If he's going 84 in a 75 it is highly unlikely he'd get pulled over around here (the rain makes a big difference though). Most likely he was just following traffic and being hyper vigilant about his speed can be a distraction and cause an accident itself.  Is there a phone app that will beep if you're going over a particular speed or something like that? Like PP said without knowing how long he was driving at the speeds I would be loath to punish to harshly, luckily for us I'm likely to be the only speeder in the family although I try to make sure I use cruise to control my speed.

[MEmama]

I don't get in what universe it's okay for a teenager to be driving 80 mph.

 

In my house, that would automatically be a kid without driving privileges. No exceptions, no excuses, no way. He'd go back to drivers ed, there would be horror story upon horror story to read and watch about accidents, perhaps a trip to the morgue. No kidding.

 

No freaking way would it be acceptable.

 

I guess I'll be the odd man out on this issue.

Edited October 5, 2017 by MEmama

[Catwoman]

I don't get in what universe it's okay for a teenager to be driving 80 mph.

 

In my house, that would automatically be a kid without driving privileges. No exceptions, no excuses, no way. He'd go back to drivers ed, there would be horror story upon horror story to read and watch about accidents, perhaps a trip to the morgue. No kidding.

 

No freaking way would it be acceptable.

 

I guess I'll be the odd man out on this issue.

Yes, and what made it even worse is that on a rainy day when the roads are wet, no one should really be driving over 80 miles an hour, no matter how experienced they might be at driving. But an inexperienced teenager? That's a recipe for disaster.

[Rachel]

I don't get in what universe it's okay for a teenager to be driving 80 mph.

 

In my house, that would automatically be a kid without driving privileges. No exceptions, no excuses, no way. He'd go back to drivers ed, there would be horror story upon horror story to read and watch about accidents, perhaps a trip to the morgue. No kidding.

 

No freaking way would it be acceptable.

 

I guess I'll be the odd man out on this issue.

I think the speed limit on the interstates in South Dakota is 80 or 85. I can't remember for sure, I just know I took a picture of it this summer.

[Bootsie]

I don't get in what universe it's okay for a teenager to be driving 80 mph.

 

In my house, that would automatically be a kid without driving privileges. No exceptions, no excuses, no way. He'd go back to drivers ed, there would be horror story upon horror story to read and watch about accidents, perhaps a trip to the morgue. No kidding.

 

No freaking way would it be acceptable.

 

I guess I'll be the odd man out on this issue.

 

In the Universe of Texas--a teen driving 80 MPH might be a hazard to the people on the road driving at the 85MPH speed limit.

[Catwoman]

I think the speed limit on the interstates in South Dakota is 80 or 85. I can't remember for sure, I just know I took a picture of it this summer.

  

In the Universe of Texas--a teen driving 80 MPH might be a hazard to the people on the road driving at the 85MPH speed limit.

I think the speed is less of an issue than the road conditions. When it's raining and roads are wet, most people should have the sense to slow down a little -- especially a teen driver.

 

I have a feeling that many of the responses would have been different if the thread had been about how her son was speeding in the rain and caused a fatal accident, or even that he was speeding in the rain and he lost control of the car and ended up in a ditch. It seems to me that "A Red Color" (still not used to her new name!) is doing her best to prevent something terrible from happening by trying to get her son to obey the speed limit.

[StephanieZ]

Ugh. I hear you. I was a terrible driver when I was a teen. It's lucky I didn't kill anyone. I can't believe my mom kept paying my tickets and my driving-school fees. I guess she didn't want to have to drive me around. Or, maybe I was annoying enough that she didn't mind if I got killed? (Just kidding!)

 

My boy was a terrible driver his first year or two. It scared the crap out of me. We survived . . . He's better now. I think he was scared straight by his accidents, to be honest. I guess he had to learn the hard way. Thankfully, no one was ever hurt. 

 

I'd think a grounding would make sense for, say, nonschool/nonwork stuff . . . 

 

I'd aim to keep him safe w/ some wiggle room. Perhaps I'd give grace for 1-5 miles over the limit, but bring down the hammer for >5 miles over -- say no driving for fun stuff for a week, and >10 would lead to no driving for ANY reason, even if that meant I'd drive him to school/work which may mean great inconvenience for him (as in, I'd have to drop him off 2 hours early for his shift, or whatever) and for me (being a mom sucks sometimes). 

 

I'd keep reminding him that a single ticket or accident will make your insurance BALLOON catastrophically and that HE will pay the difference. I made a big point of that with my kids . . . and so far, amazingly for the boy, there's been no tickets and no accidents that were reported to insurance. (Several accidents happened . . . none were reported to insurance or police, luckily. . . ds paid for the last couple . . . took him a long miserable summer to earn off the $1500 or so he owed us . . . dd got lucky in her one significant accident as it was only her car involved and only caused cosmetic damage to a our very old car that we didn't care about fixing . . . ) Anyway, we've made a huge deal about that from Day1. Mom and Dad will pay your insurance and keep you in wheels . . . but ONLY to the extent you don't do stupid things driving, including get tickets, have avoidable accidents, etc. Kid must pay the incremental costs associated with any insurance hikes and also any out of pocket costs for fixing cars . . . (We'd pay if a deer jumped out of nowhere or they were the victim but not the cause of an accident . . . but, if it's avoidable . . . kid pays.) So far, I do think these lengthy reminders with exact (possibly exaggerated) cost estimates have helped. (I.e., I tell them that ONE ticket could make their insurance go from 100/mo to 400/mo and since they can't afford that extra 300/mo, that means they'd have to turn in their DL so we could drop them from our insurance. . .  Anyway, be sure to sing that song if you don't already. 

 

((((hugs)))) It's so darn hard to parent young adults. So. Hard.