Does anyone not take drugs?

[Bluegoat]

Wow, this is such a weird discussion.

 

I thought, after her first clarrification, that it was dead clear what the OP was getting at.

 

And this hand-wringing over definitions - the fact is that it isn't totally precise - it is used in different ways in different contexts.  If your doctor wants to know your medications vs OTC or vs illegal use, he might use different words to make it clear to you, if he's talking to a pharmacist or writing a paper, he might use it a different way.  The OP has clearly said that she's interested mainly in people using drugs that affect their mind/thinking, for any reason, without regard to whether its a good or bad reason, generally or for that person in particular.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Wow, this is such a weird discussion.

 

 

There's a lot of that going around lately....

 

:lol:

[Bluegoat]

Nope. I drink tea in all forms. I am consuming caffeine, not because I am using or desiring caffeine, but because it just happens to come along for a ride with all the other components in the tea. The only reason I don't buy de-caf tea is because it requires unnecessary processing to remove the small amt of caffeine present -not worth it (and cost more for less quality). I occasionally drink coffee (for the taste) . I looove tea.

 

The one and only time I actually "took" caffeine was when I had a headache and the only headache relief my mother had was the one where acetaminophen is mixed with caffeine (excedrin tension headache).

 

I have never heard someone say, "i need caffeine...quick give me chocolate." I don't know anyone who eats chocolate for the caffeine. They (and I) eat chocolate for the enjoyment of the chocolate. Again, the caffeine is just along for the ride. If caffeine was magically removed from all chocolate and all tea, I would still drink tea and eat chocolate.

 

 

 

 

ETA: replace an s for an f  :lol:

 

I think caffeine is commonly used both like this, and also as a drug rather than food - that's generally why people drink things like Redbull, for example.  Sometimes coffee, too - they are specifically interested in the special effects of the caffine.

[Lady Florida.]

So what is the point of your OP? (I admit I haven't read all of your responses, but the ones I've read sound like arguments one of my teens used to make when he was trying to get people all worked up.) Do you just want to know who takes what? Please clarify. I have seen posts here before where someone asks a question and when enough people respond that the wording is weird, for lack of a better term, the OP will go back and edit the wording. Maybe you could try that. :)

 

Usually when a significant number of people tell me I'm not being clear or my wording is a problem, I try to find another way to say what I'm saying or ask what I'm asking. It's on the speaker to make themselves clear to the listener and when the listener or listeners repeatedly  say the speaker is coming across in a certain (negative) manner the speaker should try to re-word what they said. I think this is where so many of us are getting frustrated. The speaker in this case the speaker's wording (aka the OP and her subsequent posts) are being perceived negatively and instead of trying to re-word her questions and ideas, she's digging her heels in. 

 

I've never once had a doctor ask me if I'm taking drugs if he's asking about normal prescriptions or caffeine intake.  They will ask if someone is taking drugs (and give you reasons why they need to know and won't turn you in) but that is talking about illegal drugs or the use of prescription drugs specifically for the purpose of getting high (as opposed to therapeutic purposes).  I have never taken illegal drugs but they still ask because it is important. 

 

Yep. They ask me to list all medications I take, including otc and supplements. I've had questionnaires ask if I use recreational drugs. I don't know if they avoid the word illegal in the hope of getting people to answer honestly or why they word it that way. The questions about alcohol use are also separate from the recreational drug question. Note that the one question used the word medications and the other uses drugs. That's pretty standard wording on any medical forms I've filled out.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Lady Florida.

[Hikin' Mama]

I made the poll anonymous; I don't care who takes what.  I was just curious (as stated in the OP) if there was anyone who didn't take any drugs on a regular basis.

 

What wording would I change, and what would I change it to?

Well, for starters, I would not call this a drugs poll. If you have lived in the US your whole life and English is your first language, I am assuming (hey, I could be wrong :) ) that you know that "taking drugs" usually refers to marijuana, cocaine, etc. This is not a comment on the morality of drug use, but simply a statement of what I understand "taking drugs" to mean.

 

Secondly, I don't think caffeine, alcohol, or nicotine belong on the same list as OTC meds and prescription meds. Caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine are all choices, whereas medications are usually responses to something that is wrong in the body that cannot be controlled another way. I'm aware that caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine can be addictive, but their use starts with a choice not a requirement.

 

And in light of this article, you might want to add salmon to your poll. ;)

 

http://myscienceacademy.org/2017/07/16/seattle-caught-salmon-found-contain-cocaine-antidepressants-pain-relievers/?utm_content=buffer09e4e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

[StaceyinLA]

I clicked caffeine and alcohol, though I do go through spurts where I totally avoid caffeine. On a monthly basis though, I'm sure I could never exclude caffeine or alcohol because I'm pretty likely to have at least one glass of wine or craft brew in a month, if not every couple weeks, and sometimes places just don't offer decaf.

 

The caffeine I drink more out of convenience; my daughter makes the coffee in the mornings and I walk over for a cup (she and her family are living in our guest house right now while they build their new home). When I make my own, I do cold brew decaf, but if I buy concentrate for convenience it always has caffeine. I only drink a single cup daily; any more and I'll bounce off the walls.

 

The alcohol is for sheer enjoyment. I do try to limit the craft beer because I don't really like having gluten for the most part. It's my favorite though - dark craft beer; the red wine is second choice.

Edited July 24, 2017 by StaceyinLA

[maize]

You are correct, I defined medicine, as stated in wiki para 6.

My apologies.

 

However, look at definition you quoted.drug is...a substance that causes a physiological change. You are not going to see that with a food unless you consume large quantities quickly or you have another health issue. In that case, it isn't normal behavior. We still don't call swilling mountain dew or eating a pound of chocolate 'taking a drug'.

 

I agree you seem to be justifying recreational drug use. Are you writing a paper?

There are indeed physiological changes arising from caffeine ingestion at normal dietary levels.

 

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-does-caffeine-affect/

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2748160/

 

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en-US&oe=utf-8&safe=images&client=ms-android-att-us&q=effects+of+caffeine&qsubts=1500926801315&source=browser-suggest&action=devloc

 

https://www.caffeineinformer.com/the-caffeine-database

[heartlikealion]

Up until recently I only had chocolate from that list. Occasionally soda, but usually caffeine-free. I have never really been a tea/coffee drinker. Once in a blue moon I used to drink one tea from a vending machine but now it's really overpoweringly sweet to me. I have to be sick to try hot tea.

[eternalsummer]

You are correct, I defined medicine, as stated in wiki para 6.

My apologies.

 

However, look at definition you quoted.drug is...a substance that causes a physiological change. You are not going to see that with a food unless you consume large quantities quickly or you have another health issue. In that case, it isn't normal behavior. We still don't call swilling mountain dew or eating a pound of chocolate 'taking a drug'.

 

I agree you seem to be justifying recreational drug use. Are you writing a paper?

 

 

caffeine does cause a physiological change.  It is a stimulant.

 

I am not sure what you mean by justifying recreational drug use.  (or illegal drug use, as mentioned above).

 

Marijuana is legal in many locations; caffeine is legal everywhere (that I know of, anyway); alcohol is legal just about everywhere, at least in the West.  Are those things morally wrong to do?

 

 

I am not writing a paper :)  I graduated 10+ years ago.

[eternalsummer]

Well, for starters, I would not call this a drugs poll. If you have lived in the US your whole life and English is your first language, I am assuming (hey, I could be wrong :) ) that you know that "taking drugs" usually refers to marijuana, cocaine, etc. This is not a comment on the morality of drug use, but simply a statement of what I understand "taking drugs" to mean.

 

Secondly, I don't think caffeine, alcohol, or nicotine belong on the same list as OTC meds and prescription meds. Caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine are all choices, whereas medications are usually responses to something that is wrong in the body that cannot be controlled another way. I'm aware that caffeine, alcohol, and nicotine can be addictive, but their use starts with a choice not a requirement.

 

And in light of this article, you might want to add salmon to your poll. ;)

 

http://myscienceacademy.org/2017/07/16/seattle-caught-salmon-found-contain-cocaine-antidepressants-pain-relievers/?utm_content=buffer09e4e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

 

So what would you change "taking drugs" to?  What wording, I mean?

 

I am not concerned (as I've said about 10x in this thread) about whether something is a choice or not, just whether people are taking it (drinking it, eating it, swallowing it, smoking it, injecting it, etc.).

 

Salmon is not a drug as it is a food product.

[eternalsummer]

Wow, this is such a weird discussion.

 

I thought, after her first clarrification, that it was dead clear what the OP was getting at.

 

And this hand-wringing over definitions - the fact is that it isn't totally precise - it is used in different ways in different contexts.  If your doctor wants to know your medications vs OTC or vs illegal use, he might use different words to make it clear to you, if he's talking to a pharmacist or writing a paper, he might use it a different way.  The OP has clearly said that she's interested mainly in people using drugs that affect their mind/thinking, for any reason, without regard to whether its a good or bad reason, generally or for that person in particular.

 

 

Well that is said much clearer than I managed to say it :)  That is exactly what I was interested in.'

[maize]

I agree that this is a strange conversation and find it quite interesting that people are getting hung up on the word drug.

 

Words often have different usages depending on context; because of this they sometimes need to be clarified. It seems to me that the OP has done a decent job of clarifying her intended meaning.

 

Insistence that drinking coffee is not ingesting a drug is particularly odd to me--I thought it was quite well known that caffeine is a drug, falling in the stimulant class and fairly addictive. People drink coffee to wake themselves up in the morning specifically to take advantage of the stimulant effects of the drug caffeine. Parents of children with ADHD are often counseled to try giving their child coffee as an alternative to prescription stimulants. Because as a stimulant drug the caffeine in coffee can have a similar effect to the prescription meds.

 

I don't really know if the OP has some kind of judgmental bias behind their poll, but the bias and defensiveness in the responses is quite fascinating.

[Guest]

Oh, I think I see where the OP is going with this.

 

He/she is actually trying, in a backhanded way, to make the case that all "drugs" should be legal and none of them thought of as "bad." Sort of like if I'm cool with coffee (a drug) then why am I not cool with cocaine (a drug.) The definitions are deliberately technical and obtuse.

 

Now the weirdness of the poll and the OP's comments are making more "sense."

[Bluegoat]

Oh, I think I see where the OP is going with this.

 

He/she is actually trying, in a backhanded way, to make the case that all "drugs" should be legal and none of them thought of as "bad." Sort of like if I'm cool with coffee (a drug) then why am I not cool with cocaine (a drug.) The definitions are deliberately technical and obtuse.

 

Now the weirdness of the poll and the OP's comments are making more "sense."

 

Um, no.

[eternalsummer]

I don't think all drugs should be legal.  I don't think all legal drugs are a good idea; I don't think all drugs that are a good idea for some people are good for all people.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I agree that this is a strange conversation and find it quite interesting that people are getting hung up on the word drug.

 

Words often have different usages depending on context; because of this they sometimes need to be clarified. It seems to me that the OP has done a decent job of clarifying her intended meaning.

 

Insistence that drinking coffee is not ingesting a drug is particularly odd to me--I thought it was quite well known that caffeine is a drug, falling in the stimulant class and fairly addictive. People drink coffee to wake themselves up in the morning specifically to take advantage of the stimulant effects of the drug caffeine. Parents of children with ADHD are often counseled to try giving their child coffee as an alternative to prescription stimulants. Because as a stimulant drug the caffeine in coffee can have a similar effect to the prescription meds.

 

I don't really know if the OP has some kind of judgmental bias behind their poll, but the bias and defensiveness in the responses is quite fascinating.

 

I find the lumping of things with therapeutic value along with non-therapeutic and even harmful (in the case of hard illegal recreational drugs) to be strange.  As far as things like coffee, tea, alcohol and chocolate go - most are of neutral or even therapeutic value  unless you go over a certain amount at which they can be harmful.  So I personally find it strange not to differentiate the amount of those things.  So I guess the OP can knock herself out, but this poll tells her pretty much nothing  except her stated goal to find out if "she's the only one" to not ingest these substances.  I did see judgmental bias behind her question to begin with because even my teens understand that many people in this world do ingest these substances and many do not and would not seek some kind of solidarity with people who do not. 

 

I don't have any defensiveness regarding these substances themselves, btw. 

[eternalsummer]

I wasn't looking for solidarity, exactly - I was just surprised when I, having recently quit caffeine, thought: "hey, I'm not taking any mind-altering substances!" and then thought, wow, I don't know anyone else who doesn't take any mind-altering substances on a regular basis (except kids).  That's pretty remarkable, I thought - so I wondered if it was my own small circle, and whether people vaguely like me (I would suspect the demographics of the WTM boards have more in common with me than the average demo of the US, for example) also all ingested some form of mind-affective substance regularly.

 

Again, I didn't differentiate between medication drugs and non-medication drugs because I wasn't wondering why people ingested the substances (which is a stupid way to say it, to be honest, but I am trying to avoid saying "take drugs") but just whether most people did.

 

I am not abstaining from caffeine because of a moral position or a belief that caffeine is bad; it just isn't working for me, and I assume that it works better for other people, or they would be avoiding it too.  I don't take medications regularly because I don't need them; if I did need them, I would take them.  I see nothing superior about refusing needed medication.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

What I would like to know is how the OP and her family were taking drugs, say three weeks ago, and how they are not taking drugs now. The OP admitted that up until two weeks ago she took chocolate and caffeine. Were her children and spouse already not taking drugs at that point? Was she hiding in the closet taking illicit chocolate or downing Mountain Dew from her Nalgene? Or were they taking drugs?  Did she decide for them that they were no longer going to take drugs? Did they get to make the choice themselves? Was their beloved chocolate pudding simply missing from the menu one night? Isn't that an extreme intervention?

 

How did her eating habits change? How did their eating habits change? Did they go through withdrawal? Did she give them aspirin to help with caffeine withdrawal headaches? 

--

I think most of the eyebrow raising and disagreement could have been avoided with a more conversational wording of the OP. Something along the lines of:

Hey, my family is thinking about going/recently went drug free. We're going to/have cut out caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, OTCs, street drugs, and so on and so forth. I was wondering if anybody else lives this way. What is your lifestyle like? Which drugs have you cut out of your life? For how long? What type of reaction did you get? Do you know anyone else who is 'drug free'? I've created a poll with a basic idea of the types of drugs I'm interested in. Feel free to share your responses.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Scoutermom

[eternalsummer]

What I would like to know is how the OP and her family were taking drugs, say three weeks ago, and how they are not taking drugs now. The OP admitted that up until two weeks ago she took chocolate and caffeine. Were her children and spouse already not taking drugs at that point? Was she hiding in the closet taking illicit chocolate or downing Mountain Dew from her Nalgene? Or were they taking drugs?  Did she decide for them that they were no longer going to take drugs? Did they get to make the choice themselves? Was their beloved chocolate pudding simply missing from the menu one night? Isn't that an extreme intervention?

 

How did her eating habits change? How did their eating habits change? Did they go through withdrawal? Did she give them aspirin to help with caffeine withdrawal headaches? 

--

I think most of the eyebrow raising and disagreement could have been avoided with a more conversational wording of the OP. Something along the lines of:

 

Hey, my family is thinking about going/recently went drug free. We're going to/have cut out caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, OTCs, street drugs, and so on and so forth. I was wondering if anybody else lives this way. What is your lifestyle like? Which drugs have you cut out of your life? For how long? What type of reaction did you get? Do you know anyone else who is 'drug free'? I've created a poll with a basic idea of the types of drugs I'm interested in. Feel free to share your responses.

 

 

The kids never ate chocolate as we don't eat dairy, which makes the vast majority of chocolate sort of unpalatable for kids (at least for our kids).  Of course they didn't drink tea or coffee either, and none of us are soda drinkers.

 

DH hasn't been a regular caffeine drinker in a long time - he used to drink a lot of Mt Dew, then green tea, but it's been ages.  Neither of us smoke; he is an occasional drinker (less than once a week) and I am constantly either pregnant or nursing a small baby or could potentially be pregnant, so I don't drink.  We are both fortunate enough not to need any long-term medications for mental or physical health.  If I did need such medication, I'd take it (I explained this somewhat in a previous post about antenatal depression).  

 

 

All of that said, DH and I do basically decide what the kids eat - they're pretty small.  We don't force them to eat anything but I'm not buying 3 pints of ice cream per week, kwim?  If they could they'd live on white bread, lunch meat, and ice cream.

[Guest]

Nm. Ain't got the time.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Kinsa

[eternalsummer]

I purposely left illegal drugs out of the poll, though.

 

I don't see why associating caffeine and alcohol with pharmaceuticals under the category of drugs when, in fact, they are all drugs, is offensive.  If it is offensive, I'm sorry that it is, but I'm not particularly sorry that I've called a drug a drug, to be honest.  I don't think there's any moral consideration to caffeine or alcohol or pharmaceuticals (on their own merits, separate of individual circumstances and abuse), and I reject the idea that I must modify my speech (to change something that is factually correct) because other people think there is a moral angle to caffeine or pharmaceuticals.

 

I still don't see where I've lumped chocolate bars with cocaine use, except by calling them both drugs, which they both are.  Is Wikipedia being offensive?  Is science offensive?  This is such a weird conversation!

 

eta: ack, the post I was responding to has been deleted, so this might seem like a bit of a non-sequitur.

Edited July 24, 2017 by eternalsummer

[regentrude]

I have two cups of coffee every day and do not see any reason to quit, because coffee tastes good to me. I have been having two cups daily for three decades, without any need to increase consumption for "effect" -  I don't feel any "mind altering" effect and am fully awake and alert without coffee. I have been able to cut out coffee for pregnancy and stomach illness without problems.

I have the occasional alcoholic drink, a few times per month. Again, no desire or reason to quit that either.

 

If I have a migraine, I will take OTC medication. If I suffer from allergies, I will take an allergy pill. That's what they have been invented for.

 

OP, despite all protestations to the contrary, your posts do come across as "holier than though". It's not a competition, you know?

Edited July 24, 2017 by regentrude

[Jean in Newcastle]

I purposely left illegal drugs out of the poll, though.

 

I don't see why associating caffeine and alcohol with pharmaceuticals under the category of drugs when, in fact, they are all drugs, is offensive.  If it is offensive, I'm sorry that it is, but I'm not particularly sorry that I've called a drug a drug, to be honest.  I don't think there's any moral consideration to caffeine or alcohol or pharmaceuticals (on their own merits, separate of individual circumstances and abuse), and I reject the idea that I must modify my speech (to change something that is factually correct) because other people think there is a moral angle to caffeine or pharmaceuticals.

 

I still don't see where I've lumped chocolate bars with cocaine use, except by calling them both drugs, which they both are.  Is Wikipedia being offensive?  Is science offensive?  This is such a weird conversation!

 

eta: ack, the post I was responding to has been deleted, so this might seem like a bit of a non-sequitur.

 

Because you keep talking about things being "mind altering".  If if you get over the (what I see as) weirdness at calling chocolate or a cup of coffee or a can of soda mind altering, not all pharmaceuticals are mind altering.  I suppose my seizure medication is but even then it's not like I have a choice over not taking it like I do over whether I drink or eat a food with caffeine in it.  My heart medication has absolutely zero to do with my mind, thank you very much.  So I see your thread as being a bit scientifically challenged. 

[LucyStoner]

What it reminds me of is an attitude I ran into in young adults of a particular subculture trying to figure out who was the most st8 edge.  "Man, I'm so straight edge, I don't take Tylenol."  "Sunshine's so straight edge; she doesn't eat chocolate." "Whoa, that's hardcore."  Perhaps paired with an idea that the prevalence of prescription medications is not a good thing.  This latter point is one where there are valid arguments on both sides.  

 

Personally, my dalliances into being straight edge extended only to a personal prohibition on alcohol, tobacco, illicit drugs, illegal use of prescription drugs and such.  I guess I just wasn't as st8 edge as I could have been.  I loosened up some as a youngish adult and now drink socially, on a limited basis.  I do credit being st8 edge when I was a teen and very young adult with helping me avoid the addictions that have plagued my family.  By the time I was drinking socially, I was better able to gauge when to stop and less likely to go overboard.  I don't think my younger self would have been able to handle alcohol or drug experimentation.  I was at a high risk for addiction and substance abuse.  

Edited July 25, 2017 by LucyStoner

[Hikin' Mama]

 

Salmon is not a drug as it is a food product.

The salmon comment was an attempt at humor. The article I linked stated that drugs and personal care products had been found in the flesh of salmon caught in the Puget Sound. Among the drugs found were "Prozac, Advil, Benadryl, Lipitor, and even cocaine."

 

By the way, I wasn't offended by your post, wording, etc. It was interesting, but not offensive, at least to me. I was just discussing, like ya do on a discussion board. :)

Edited July 25, 2017 by Hikin' Mama

[eternalsummer]

Ah, I didn't read the article!  I'm sorry.  

 

That's pretty crazy about the salmon; there are places I'd not want to drink the tap water because you don't know whose recycled bits of pharmaceuticals (and I guess illegal drugs too) are in there, albeit in minute quantities.  

 

I take Tylenol when I have a headache.  

 

 

I originally said I was mostly interested in mind-altering drugs (things that affect your state of mind, even mildly, which caffeine does - in fact, that is the purpose of caffeine).  I know that many medications do not affect the state of mind, at least directly (or intentionally).  

[heartlikealion]

So what would you change "taking drugs" to?  What wording, I mean?

 

I am not concerned (as I've said about 10x in this thread) about whether something is a choice or not, just whether people are taking it (drinking it, eating it, swallowing it, smoking it, injecting it, etc.).

 

Salmon is not a drug as it is a food product.

 

But chocolate?? Are we talking man made vs caught in the wild?

 

(so no one takes this too literally I mean you don't find chocolate bars/candies growing off trees)

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by heartlikealion

[SKL]

Yes caffeine affects my brain.  In a good way.  I have a very long day and I tend toward ADHD.  In my second year of law school, I discovered that coffee was an incredible help in keeping me focused in those morning classes.  Since then, my friend who hooked me on coffee has been trying to get me to give it up.  But I see study after study that proves it's healthy.

 

I don't have a choice to get up in the morning and wait until my brain is focused enough to get things done.  I don't have a choice to go to bed when my natural caffeine-free mental energy is waning.  Maybe I'll try that as an experiment when my kids are grown and I've semi-retired.  I'll let y'all know how it goes.  Meanwhile I will slavishly worship my drug.  :P

 

Funny thing - I always used to say "I need my drug" meaning my morning coffee.  At some point it seemed better not to talk that way around my kids.  :P  So I switched to calling it my "elixir."

[SKL]

And chocolate supposedly affects the brain too.  So many stories of women "needing chocolate" to get through the first day of their period etc.  I personally don't have a thing for chocolate, but I guess some people do.  Whatever works!

[Jean in Newcastle]

I can't have caffeine because of what it does to my heart and adrenals (ie. it stimulates them too much, not my brain).

My dd is "prescribed" caffeine (as in told to take it by an actual doctor) for her migraines not because it is "mind altering" but because it dilates the blood vessels. 

Just pointing out that caffeine is not this simple substance that is only used as a stimulant because people want to "alter" their mind. 

[ktgrok]

 

 

Salmon is not a drug as it is a food product.

 

So is chocolate. 

[eternalsummer]

Well chocolate is kind of complicated, right?

 

If you bought a candy or cookie that had marijuana in it, would you say you were not taking a drug?

 

How is chocolate different?

[SKL]

Well chocolate is kind of complicated, right?

 

If you bought a candy or cookie that had marijuana in it, would you say you were not taking a drug?

 

How is chocolate different?

 

I've never eaten a cookie with MJ in it, but I'm guessing the difference between that and an Oreo would be pretty obvious.  :P

[eternalsummer]

Hah, I haven't either, so I can't say.

[ktgrok]

Well chocolate is kind of complicated, right?

 

If you bought a candy or cookie that had marijuana in it, would you say you were not taking a drug?

 

How is chocolate different?

 

A brownie with MJ added had something added specifically to induce a mind altering effect. 

 

A bar of chocolate had nothing added to it, chocolate is what it is. And people eat it because it tastes good. 

[Liz CA]

I can't have caffeine because of what it does to my heart and adrenals (ie. it stimulates them too much, not my brain).

My dd is "prescribed" caffeine (as in told to take it by an actual doctor) for her migraines not because it is "mind altering" but because it dilates the blood vessels. 

Just pointing out that caffeine is not this simple substance that is only used as a stimulant because people want to "alter" their mind. 

 

Agree with this. Even for those of us who drink coffee or have some chocolate for no other reason than we enjoy it, the amount of caffeine is rather small unless you imbibe large quantities and even then the effects can make your heart race and raise your BP but are not really comparable with the effects of some other drugs.

Coffee is also sometimes given to people with mild cases of ADHD since it's a stimulant.

 

[Liz CA]

The salmon comment was an attempt at humor. The article I linked stated that drugs and personal care products had been found in the flesh of salmon caught in the Puget Sound. Among the drugs found were "Prozac, Advil, Benadryl, Lipitor, and even cocaine."

 

By the way, I wasn't offended by your post, wording, etc. It was interesting, but not offensive, at least to me. I was just discussing, like ya do on a discussion board. :)

 

Good Grief. Let's only eat wild caught salmon from deep water areas of Alaska. 

 

[Liz CA]

And chocolate supposedly affects the brain too.  So many stories of women "needing chocolate" to get through the first day of their period etc.  I personally don't have a thing for chocolate, but I guess some people do.  Whatever works!

 

You know, I'd like to read some studies on this. I do wonder how much of it is the placebo effect since you'd have to eat a good amount of chocolate to get an appreciable amount of caffeine. I like to eat chocolate because I like the taste (Theo's :) ) but I only eat a small square at one time. I don't think I am getting much caffeine since I have no trouble sleeping right after I indulge.

 

[eternalsummer]

A brownie with MJ added had something added specifically to induce a mind altering effect. 

 

A bar of chocolate had nothing added to it, chocolate is what it is. And people eat it because it tastes good. 

 

?

 

Chocolate the candy bar has sugar and fat added to the cocoa.  I don't think many people eat straight cocoa, without sugar or fat added (or whatever they add to mole).  

[Jean in Newcastle]

You know, I'd like to read some studies on this. I do wonder how much of it is the placebo effect since you'd have to eat a good amount of chocolate to get an appreciable amount of caffeine. I like to eat chocolate because I like the taste (Theo's :) ) but I only eat a small square at one time. I don't think I am getting much caffeine since I have no trouble sleeping right after I indulge.

 

I love Theo's too.

[ktgrok]

?

 

Chocolate the candy bar has sugar and fat added to the cocoa.  I don't think many people eat straight cocoa, without sugar or fat added (or whatever they add to mole).  

 

But those aren't the ingredients that you were calling a drug. The cocoa is. You can't make chocolate without cocoa. You can make brownies without pot. 

 

If I want to eat chocolate, for the chocolate taste, I eat chocolate. Not to get high or alter my brain. But because it tastes good. It's not like I'd normally eat milk and sugar, but add in the cocoa in order to alter my mood. It's not something I'm adding to the chocolate, it is the main component. 

[eternalsummer]

This is true, I would say that chocolate is something people eat maybe without intending or being all that aware of the caffeine consumption, especially if you're talking about like a Snickers bar, where the cacao content is pretty low.

 

The caffeine in 1/4 of a Theo's bar (a dark chocolate one) is roughly equivalent to the caffeine in a coke, maybe a little less.  So if you're eating that kind of chocolate, although maybe you aren't intending to eat caffeine for its own sake (much like someone drinking a latte might just like the taste), you are still ingesting the drug, kwim?

 

Again, I wasn't particularly wondering *why* people ingested drugs of various sorts, just whether most people in fact did.  

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

This is true, I would say that chocolate is something people eat maybe without intending or being all that aware of the caffeine consumption, especially if you're talking about like a Snickers bar, where the cacao content is pretty low.

 

The caffeine in 1/4 of a Theo's bar (a dark chocolate one) is roughly equivalent to the caffeine in a coke, maybe a little less. So if you're eating that kind of chocolate, although maybe you aren't intending to eat caffeine for its own sake (much like someone drinking a latte might just like the taste), you are still ingesting the drug, kwim?

 

Again, I wasn't particularly wondering *why* people ingested drugs of various sorts, just whether most people in fact did.

Sure, dark chocolate has more caffeine. But t it also has more antioxidants. Which benefits the body.

[eternalsummer]

I think even caffeine benefits the body in moderate amounts, right?  I am sure I read that somewhere.

[Bluegoat]

Well chocolate is kind of complicated, right?

 

If you bought a candy or cookie that had marijuana in it, would you say you were not taking a drug?

 

How is chocolate different?

 

To me the major difference is the person.  Most people eat chocolate just because it tastes good.  They don't care about, and probably don't notice, and drug related effects.  Probably for most they don't eat enough good quality chocolate for that kind of effect anyway.  And they would not care if the chocolate was decaffeinated as long as it was tasty.

 

If someone has a cookie with mj in it, unless it is an accident, they are almost certainly doing it for the effect, and that is why it was added to the recipe in the first place.

 

You see both with coffee.  Some like it just as a tasty drink.  Others like it for the perky effect.  For many, they may like both.

[eternalsummer]

To me the major difference is the person.  Most people eat chocolate just because it tastes good.  They don't care about, and probably don't notice, and drug related effects.  Probably for most they don't eat enough good quality chocolate for that kind of effect anyway.  And they would not care if the chocolate was decaffeinated as long as it was tasty.

 

If someone has a cookie with mj in it, unless it is an accident, they are almost certainly doing it for the effect, and that is why it was added to the recipe in the first place.

 

You see both with coffee.  Some like it just as a tasty drink.  Others like it for the perky effect.  For many, they may like both.

 

 

With this, I can agree :)

[TravelingChris]

First of all, a number of foods have effects on the body. Dark, leafy greens and broccoli and soy and green tea all increase your likelihood of your blood clotting,  Cranberries and the spice turmeric lessen blood clotting.   Celery and hibiscus lower blood pressure.  I could go on and on.  Some medications I take alter my mind even though they are taken for an entirely different reason.  My asthma inhaler (albuterol) is well known for causing anxiety and insomnia.  Those are bad side effects of it but breathing properly when my asthma kicks up is much more important, i.e. life-saving.  I know that many, many medications can cause tiredness or dizziness as an unwanted side effect.  

[LucyStoner]

My husband scored me some drugs for this afternoon.  I have a chocolate chip cookie and a bottle of mexican coca cola.  Getting high as we speak.  

[Ravin]

I've been taking levothyroxine since I was 11, so definitely checked "hormones." And I checked "otc painkillers" because I pull something or get a headache or whatever at least once a month on average, but didn't check alcohol because while I do drink on occasion, it is less often than once a month on average.

 

I'm pretty sure most humans in the last 10,000 years at least (and probably more like the last hundred thousand) ingest some kind of substance with mind altering or healing properties. Heck, chimpanzees chew certain leaves for their medicinal properties so the practice could well go back to our last shared common ancestor.

 

Humans probably drug ourselves less now than in the past, because we have more focused tools in that arena and other tools for being healthy. I mean, we used to give opium to babies for coughs for pete's sake.

[ktgrok]

I've been taking levothyroxine since I was 11, so definitely checked "hormones." And I checked "otc painkillers" because I pull something or get a headache or whatever at least once a month on average, but didn't check alcohol because while I do drink on occasion, it is less often than once a month on average.

 

I'm pretty sure most humans in the last 10,000 years at least (and probably more like the last hundred thousand) ingest some kind of substance with mind altering or healing properties. Heck, chimpanzees chew certain leaves for their medicinal properties so the practice could well go back to our last shared common ancestor.

 

Humans probably drug ourselves less now than in the past, because we have more focused tools in that arena and other tools for being healthy. I mean, we used to give opium to babies for coughs for pete's sake.

 

Yup. I think the remarkable thing is when someone doesn't take/eat/drink anything with such qualities. As a species, it's pretty ingrained.