If you do allow teen dating- question

[teachermom2834]

If you do not allow teen dating please just keep scrolling!

 

If you have teens that date, who pays? My oldest ds was dating a girl always flush with cash from relatives. She paid more often than he did but when he did come into some cash he would pay. Her parents would often just hand them cash on the way out. He is now in college and he and his current gf either go Dutch or take turns. Pretty equitable.

 

Second ds (17 yo) dated a girl for about six months and they did not go out often but it was pretty equitable when they did.

 

Enter gf #4 we have had in our family. Second ds is dating a girl from a much more affluent family. Only child born to much older parents. Private school, country club. She expects him to pay for everything. He does work and has his own money and he did have a lot saved prior to the relationship. He has burned through a lot of his savings. He is working part time making about $60-70/wk.

 

They are both 17yo and this has been going on about six months now. This progressed to a new level last night as they grabbed a $75 bite to eat. Not a special occasion. Just "hey let's eat here."

 

My dh and I spent about that for our 20th anniversary dinner. We seldom go out and if we do never to that type of place. My ds had never been to such a nice place and to her it was like grabbing a burger somewhere.

 

I'm pretty upset about this today. The girl is very sweet, her life experience has just been so different. I was previously upset that he payed for everything all the time but the excess of this just pushed me over the top. He will have to work tonight and tomorrow night and a shift next week to pay for that one dinner.

 

Do you think a boy should have to cover 100% of dating expenses?

 

Do you have any advice for navigating the dating across social classes?

 

What makes it hardest is that she is such a nice girl. Positive and supportive and does not nit pick him like so many girls we have had around. Just that social/wealth/class divide that we talk about so much here. 😟 My head and heart hurt.

[GreenKitty]

Have you talked to your son about it? What does he think? Yes, many different social classes, boys always paid. I'm curious as my children are all single now, saying it's to expensive to date. Ha

Edited July 1, 2017 by GreenKitty

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't think a boy/guy should be expected to cover 100% of dating expenses. 

 

There may be situations where one simply does not have enough money and the other person can/wants to pay.  I think that's ok.

 

I'd be rather upset with this situation too.  Not sure what I'd do though. 

[teachermom2834]

My son is discouraged but does not feel like he can say no to her. He has talked to her about it in the past and she says she understands but then she suggests the restaurant she did last night. My ds had no idea it would be so expensive and he is not the type to get up and leave after he sees the menu. He was annoyed but feels like his only choice is to break up with her. He really likes her a lot and is sad feeling like he has to break up because her taste is so expensive he just can't keep up. He actually called and talked to her again today and she says she understands. We'll see I guess.

[SparklyUnicorn]

My son is discouraged but does not feel like he can say no to her. He has talked to her about it in the past and she says she understands but then she suggests the restaurant she did last night. My ds had no idea it would be so expensive and he is not the type to get up and leave after he sees the menu. He was annoyed but feels like his only choice is to break up with her. He really likes her a lot and is sad feeling like he has to break up because her taste is so expensive he just can't keep up. He actually called and talked to her again today and she says she understands. We'll see I guess.

 

Huh..bizarre really.

 

I don't know.  If it were me I'd let him figure it out.  I guess he needs to decide if this is a deal breaker or not. 

[marbel]

Aw, I'm sad for your son.

 

But, speaking as someone completely outside the situation, I think he will be better off without her in the long run.  She has expectations he can't meet.  I'm guessing she was brought up that the male always pays. She was probably also brought up to have expensive taste.  I think she may not truly understand their financial differences. 

 

He can take more of a lead in what they do, and make sure it is within his budget. For example, if they decide to go out to eat, he can be ready with suggestions that fit his budget. Or, if she suggests a place, he can look it up online and check the menu prices.  If it's too much, he can say, no, sorry, we have to go somewhere else.   That may  cause her to break up with him.  

 

Easy for me to say.  My daughter dates but her boyfriend lives a distance away so they don't see each other very often.  They keep it pretty equitable, she says.  

 

ETA: of course you can't tell him to break it off with her.  I'm not suggesting that.  

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by marbel

[GreenKitty]

My son is discouraged but does not feel like he can say no to her. He has talked to her about it in the past and she says she understands but then she suggests the restaurant she did last night. My ds had no idea it would be so expensive and he is not the type to get up and leave after he sees the menu. He was annoyed but feels like his only choice is to break up with her. He really likes her a lot and is sad feeling like he has to break up because her taste is so expensive he just can't keep up. He actually called and talked to her again today and she says she understands. We'll see I guess.

Then I'd leave it at that.

 

It's good he's able to deal with things early on and communicate his feelings. Just call it another life lesson. ;)

[teachermom2834]

Huh..bizarre really.

 

I don't know. If it were me I'd let him figure it out. I guess he needs to decide if this is a deal breaker or not.

Yeah, I haven't really told him how to spend his money and I'm not throwing down and ultimatums or anything. But it does affect the family in the sense that he is expected to contribute significantly to his college expenses.

 

I am offering him suggestions on how to deal with it but if her tastes are that expensive she will break up with him when the money is gone. Would be better to break up before he is broke. What a mess. These are the things even good teenagers get into that drive their parents nuts.

[teachermom2834]

Aw, I'm sad for your son.

 

But, speaking as someone completely outside the situation, I think he will be better off without her in the long run. She has expectations he can't meet. I'm guessing she was brought up that the male always pays. She was probably also brought up to have expensive taste. I think she may not truly understand their financial differences.

 

He can take more of a lead in what they do, and make sure it is within his budget. For example, if they decide to go out to eat, he can be ready with suggestions that fit his budget. Or, if she suggests a place, he can look it up online and check the menu prices. If it's too much, he can say, no, sorry, we have to go somewhere else. That may cause her to break up with him.

 

Easy for me to say. My daughter dates but her boyfriend lives a distance away so they don't see each other very often. They keep it pretty equitable, she says.

 

ETA: of course you can't tell him to break it off with her. I'm not suggesting that.

I pretty much feel the exact way you do here. If she doesn't get it, would be better to break up now rather than later. Of course that can not be up to me. Ugh. Teenagers.

[teachermom2834]

Wait, so he's spending money meant to pay for his college? Yeah, we'd have a heart to heart then. Not that you can force him to make the right decision, but I'd lay things out for him clearly so he can see fully what he's throwing away by spending that money.

Yes. We haven't had exact expectations with the kids but it has been a situation where we'll all work together to get college done but there has been a very general and loose agreement that my kids would work and save and do their best and so would we. So yes, seeing his savings dwindling hurts.

 

I told him I wanted him to come up with a plan, whether it be moving money into his 529 or taking cash when they go out and leaving his debit card home or whatever. I'm trying to give him some ideas. I like him to have as much autonomy as possible and l try to let him make mistakes so he can learn. So I told him that we would talk about it.

 

I really was just venting and asking if most people really do still operate on the boy paying for everything model. I think ds kept hoping to come to some agreement on it with her but last night seemed to bring it to a head.

[Pen]

Sounds like what is happening is too expensive for him -- or for your family's circumstances -- even if it were split 50-50.

 

Since he is 17 and it is affecting his college savings, I think this is a situation where your involvement makes sense.  Do you know the girl's parents enough to talk with them about it?  My guess is that if there is any long term interest in your son as a sil, they would not want him to miss going to college due to $75 dinners now.  If there is no long term interest, it may as well end before savings are all gone.

[Tanaqui]

The person who invites does the paying, unless they've agreed to split the bill.

 

For situations like this, as long as the two parties involved are happy, the parents need to sit on their hands and not say anything.

 

Yeah, I haven't really told him how to spend his money and I'm not throwing down and ultimatums or anything. But it does affect the family in the sense that he is expected to contribute significantly to his college expenses.

 

Oh. Well, in that case, forget it, he needs to be more careful with his cash.

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by Tanaqui

[StephanieZ]

Well, I allow my teens to date, but none have, as yet, had extensive dating relationships that involved going out and paying for dates routinely  . . .

 

FWIW, I've encouraged my son to pay 100% when he's gone out on a formal "date" with a girl. Even when he was doing her a favor by stepping in as a last minute prom  or homecoming date . . . I just think it's good manners for the boy to pay. And it's sweet. And tender. And sweet. 

 

I'd be pretty miffed if my dd was dating a boy and he wasn't paying for most/all of their outings for at least the initial months. I'd definitely get a bad impression of the boy . . .

 

It'd be totally fine if the dates they went on were free or very cheap . . . I'd much rather have a boy take a girl on half as many dates than expect her to pay. 

 

I think after 4-6 months or so of dating, settling into a little more equitable pattern is fine, but, for the beginning, I think it's nicer for the fellow to pay. 

 

That said, there is NO reason to go out to a $75 dinner for a casual bite to eat. In fact, there's no reason to spend $$ at all to date. Free dates are just fine. Kids have to learn to manage their money, and it makes no sense to spend that sort of money on a casual dinner for teenagers -- not if they're paying for half, and even less so if they're paying for the whole thing, lol.

 

Hike + ice cream cone = awesome day for $10 . . .

 

Bike + popsicles = awesome day for $6 . . .

 

See the theme? Sugar + outside = fun + cheap!

 

And, FWIW, I have no rational reason for any of these opinions. All I know is that my dh treats me like a princess and we're very happily married, and I want that for my girls and for my son, too. And, really, we were very liberated and informal when we were dating! So, where'd I get this hang up on who pays for what? No idea, lol. The fellow paying just *feels* respectful and sweet to me, and SO MANY young men are just looking for a quick you-know-what with barely officially dating at all . . . somehow the fellow paying 100% sort of sends an "official date" message that is reassuring to me.

 

I won't try to argue that anyone is wrong . . . but I'm just saying that's how I feel. :) 

 

 

 

 

[teachermom2834]

Sounds like what is happening is too expensive for him -- or for your family's circumstances -- even if it were split 50-50.

 

Since he is 17 and it is affecting his college savings, I think this is a situation where your involvement makes sense. Do you know the girl's parents enough to talk with them about it? My guess is that if there is any long term interest in your son as a sil, they would not want him to miss going to college due to $75 dinners now. If there is no long term interest, it may as well end before savings are all gone.

I actually do know the parents. They invited our family over for the fourth. I asked my ds what to do- I don't want to go to their house and have it be awkward on the verge of breakup or with tension. With his approval I texted back saying that it seems the kids are in a bit of a rough patch and maybe we she each speak with our own kid and make sure they still want to do the fourth. She called me to see what was up and we talked for a bit. She was very gracious and seemed embarrassed. She seemed to totally understand that ds couldn't afford that. She is going to speak to her daughter.

 

I really didn't want to get involved in that way but ds was at a loss as to how to handle it (he is not an idiot but he is 17) and he asked me to try to clear the air a bit before getting together in a few days.

 

Now we will just see what happens. They are both great kids from good families but...they are just kids. Ds has come to the conclusion that as much as he likes her he cannot provide what she expects. So I think he is reaching the obvious conclusion on his own.

 

It is hard to see your kids hurt and it does sting when it is because we couldn't provide enough cash ( I don't rationally feel bad about that at all but irrational mama bear does feel bad we can't just finance it).

 

I think all of this is just part of growing up and learning about life. It still can be painful to walk through with them.

[Sneezyone]

In this day and age, and with teens, no. I would not expect the boy to pay for everything. It implies a level of seriousness that isn't warranted for most kids, IMHO. I'd prefer DD went dutch to cut down on expectations. I'd also be weirded out by my teen routinely going to Ruth's Chris for a quick bite. I can't imagine anything but Red Robin or TGI Friday-type meals and who spends $75 for two people there?!

Edited July 1, 2017 by Sneezyone

[Pen]

I really was just venting and asking if most people really do still operate on the boy paying for everything model. 

 

 

I think there is flexibility these days, as you obviously know from your ds1 experiences.

 

It isn't rare for boy to pay to still be a model--but I think in those situations it is supposed to be that the boy figures out where the date will be to (something that he can afford), asks the girl, and they go there. The girl does not decide the place and demand the boy pays--that would be considered bad form. And in that more traditional model, the girl reciprocates with things like homemade dinners for the boy.

[Ravin]

My son is discouraged but does not feel like he can say no to her. He has talked to her about it in the past and she says she understands but then she suggests the restaurant she did last night. My ds had no idea it would be so expensive and he is not the type to get up and leave after he sees the menu. He was annoyed but feels like his only choice is to break up with her. He really likes her a lot and is sad feeling like he has to break up because her taste is so expensive he just can't keep up. He actually called and talked to her again today and she says she understands. We'll see I guess.

He needs to learn the following useful phrases:

 

When she suggests pricey restaurant: "so are you buying?"

 

My DD is dating a girl. They will take turns or go dutch. I would expect the same if she was dating a boy.

[catz]

I think that is nuts.  I got married going on 18 years ago and my DH and I were equitable up until we were married and joined finances.  That said in a 17 year old what can you do but be a sounding board?  The most I might say is "Wow, are you ok with that?" unless I was asked directly for advice.   It honestly doesn't sounds like it's going to work out. 

 

I wouldn't be super comfortable with girlfriend's parents paying for everything either for that matter.   My 16 year old doesn't have a job but he does have to plan his social events with a limited budget.  I can't imagine just throwing money at him every time he wanted to go out.

 

All that said, I definitely don't think a boy HAS to pay.  Especially when a young couple is dating and doing stuff together all the time.  For a special occasion invite, sure.  But I paid for special occasion stuff when I was dating too so I don't at all think it needs to be a male only thing to plan and financially cover something special.  I think the best way to START dating is to meet and go dutch a few times for coffee or lunch or something simple.  And teens can do a bunch of fun things without spending a fortune. 

[fairfarmhand]

My dd is 19 with a steady boyfriend and she sometimes pays. They don't take turns or anything, but it's important to her to help further the relationship. And she doesn't want a to be treated as a princess. It bugs her boyfriend, but he gets over it.

 

They also are masters of the cheap date. Coffee and a hike; canoeing with a picnic. They seldom do movies or dinner, unless it's at one of the parents homes with the whole family.  Game night with friends. You can have LOADS of fun without spending money. LOADS. If this young lady isn;t up for inexpensive fun, she may not be the one for your son.

 

Does your son struggle with figuring out fun dates that he can afford? Because if he's asking her to suggest stuff and she suggests things that were fun for her family, she probably doesn't realize what she's asking about.

 

I always prefer for my dh when we go places to have a plan in place rather than always saying "What do you want to do?"

[teachermom2834]

I think there is flexibility these days, as you obviously know from your ds1 experiences.

 

It isn't rare for boy to pay to still be a model--but I think in those situations it is supposed to be that the boy figures out where the date will be to (something that he can afford), asks the girl, and they go there. The girl does not decide the place and demand the boy pays--that would be considered bad form. And in that more traditional model, the girl reciprocates with things like homemade dinners for the boy.

Yes! This is what I am thinking. My ds really does like paying and I do not mind if that is how he wants to spend the money but she cannot say "hey I want you to try this restaurant" and the expect him to pay.

 

I think after the initial months an informal Dutch or taking turns treating, or one person pays for the movie and the other dinner,or one person picks up the tab and the other leaves the tip. I find a long term relationship where a teen boy who busts his butt waiting tables is expected to treat his gf everytime indefinitely is odd.

[teachermom2834]

 

He needs to learn the following useful phrases:

 

When she suggests pricey restaurant: "so are you buying?"

 

My DD is dating a girl. They will take turns or go dutch. I would expect the same if she was dating a boy.[/quote

 

]I agree!

[teachermom2834]

My dd is 19 with a steady boyfriend and she sometimes pays. They don't take turns or anything, but it's important to her to help further the relationship. And she doesn't want a to be treated as a princess. It bugs her boyfriend, but he gets over it.

 

They also are masters of the cheap date. Coffee and a hike; canoeing with a picnic. They seldom do movies or dinner, unless it's at one of the parents homes with the whole family. Game night with friends. You can have LOADS of fun without spending money. LOADS. If this young lady isn;t up for inexpensive fun, she may not be the one for your son.

 

Does your son struggle with figuring out fun dates that he can afford? Because if he's asking her to suggest stuff and she suggests things that were fun for her family, she probably doesn't realize what she's asking about.

 

I always prefer for my dh when we go places to have a plan in place rather than always saying "What do you want to do?"

I agree! One of the suggestions I had for him was to iron out plans in advance. The $75 dinner was an on the fly thing. If they had already made plans he would have been in a different position. Also, if he only had $40 cash on him he could have avoided that. Edited July 1, 2017 by teachermom2834

[teachermom2834]

I think that is nuts. I got married going on 18 years ago and my DH and I were equitable up until we were married and joined finances. That said in a 17 year old what can you do but be a sounding board? The most I might say is "Wow, are you ok with that?" unless I was asked directly for advice. It honestly doesn't sounds like it's going to work out.

 

I wouldn't be super comfortable with girlfriend's parents paying for everything either for that matter. My 16 year old doesn't have a job but he does have to plan his social events with a limited budget. I can't imagine just throwing money at him every time he wanted to go out.

 

All that said, I definitely don't think a boy HAS to pay. Especially when a young couple is dating and doing stuff together all the time. For a special occasion invite, sure. But I paid for special occasion stuff when I was dating too so I don't at all think it needs to be a male only thing to plan and financially cover something special. I think the best way to START dating is to meet and go dutch a few times for coffee or lunch or something simple. And teens can do a bunch of fun things without spending a fortune.

When my older ds was dating the girl whose parents were always giving them money I was very uncomfortable. I ended up giving him money to even it up just because I was so uncomfortable with that scenario.

[KungFuPanda]

It sounds like a good learning experience for him. This girl isn't getting it. He has to be strong enough to tell her THIS is the budget and then actually stick to it, or break up with her. She can't MAKE him spend. If she's really sweet, I doubt she'd start a fight over a hard no and she'd eventually learn to just choose a cheaper pizza. She's just clueless about the value of a dollar. He can't just give into the temptation to overspend, then get mad later and blame the girl. Ultimately HE parted with the cash and trading out the girl won't teach him self control. Of course, he's young and absolutely has the option to not have this headache in his life.

 

My daughter dated as a teen. She and her BF are pretty great at finding frugal activities. It seems like a pretty even split. Between the two of them they can always come up with money for concert tickets and a cheap meal. Last night they ate at home before a play, saw a show, then when they called for a ride home, DH detoured them and got milkshakes for everyone. Usually the BF drives and these kids know where all the deals are. Apparently sonic milkshakes are cheaper later at night???

[fairfarmhand]

It sounds like a good learning experience for him. This girl isn't getting it. He has to be strong enough to tell her THIS is the budget and then actually stick to it, or break up with her. She can't MAKE him spend. If she's really sweet, I doubt she'd start a fight over a hard no and she'd eventually learn to just choose a cheaper pizza. She's just clueless about the value of a dollar. He can't just give into the temptation to overspend, then get mad later and blame the girl. Ultimately HE parted with the cash and trading out the girl won't teach him self control. Of course, he's young and absolutely has the option to not have this headache in his life.

 

My daughter dated as a teen. She and her BF are pretty great at finding frugal activities. It seems like a pretty even split. Between the two of them they can always come up with money for concert tickets and a cheap meal. Last night they ate at home before a play, saw a show, then when they called for a ride home, DH detoured them and got milkshakes for everyone. Usually the BF drives and these kids know where all the deals are. Apparently sonic milkshakes are cheaper later at night???

 

Sonic shakes are half price after 8.

 

There's a cheap date...Shakes at sonic....

[catz]

When my older ds was dating the girl whose parents were always giving them money I was very uncomfortable. I ended up giving him money to even it up just because I was so uncomfortable with that scenario.

 

I don't blame you!  That would make me super uncomfortable too!  I much prefer dutch or turn taking dating even when I WAS dating.  I never liked feeling in debt to someone and I would definitely be uncomfortable for that for my kids.

 

I am sorry for your son.  These are hard lessons to learn!  And it's hard to keep your mouth shut as a mom too  Teen parenting is not for the faint of heart!

 

Well at this point I'm not sure my 16 year old will ever have a girlfriend so I'll enjoy it while I can!  :lol:

 

[teachermom2834]

It sounds like a good learning experience for him. This girl isn't getting it. He has to be strong enough to tell her THIS is the budget and then actually stick to it, or break up with her. She can't MAKE him spend. If she's really sweet, I doubt she'd start a fight over a hard no and she'd eventually learn to just choose a cheaper pizza. She's just clueless about the value of a dollar. He can't just give into the temptation to overspend, then get mad later and blame the girl. Ultimately HE parted with the cash and trading out the girl won't teach him self control. Of course, he's young and absolutely has the option to not have this headache in his life.

 

My daughter dated as a teen. She and her BF are pretty great at finding frugal activities. It seems like a pretty even split. Between the two of them they can always come up with money for concert tickets and a cheap meal. Last night they ate at home before a play, saw a show, then when they called for a ride home, DH detoured them and got milkshakes for everyone. Usually the BF drives and these kids know where all the deals are. Apparently sonic milkshakes are cheaper later at night???

I agree with your assessment in the first paragraph and so would my ds. He absolutely knows he was not forced into anything and he isn't mad at her even. He is frustrated but he says "she just doesn't get it." In fact, her mother has said the same thing about her just not getting the value of a dollar. So two good kids. One with a narrow view of the world who has grown up going to nice restaurants and doesn't "get it." The other kid lacking in the confidence to just stand up and be assertive. He says he is ready to be assertive and she says she now "gets it". Time will tell!

[teachermom2834]

Well, my girl has only ever dated other girls, so....both pay!

 

I think it's hopelessly old fashioned that the boy must pay for everything, and honestly, a girl who could pull her weight but doesn't? Wouldn't be a good sign imo.

 

If he 'doesn't feel he can say no to her', that requires a talk or two or ten about boundaries in relationships. Better to learn it at 17 than at 37, kwim?

YES!

[teachermom2834]

I don't blame you! That would make me super uncomfortable too! I much prefer dutch or turn taking dating even when I WAS dating. I never liked feeling in debt to someone and I would definitely be uncomfortable for that for my kids.

 

I am sorry for your son. These are hard lessons to learn! And it's hard to keep your mouth shut as a mom too Teen parenting is not for the faint of heart!

 

Well at this point I'm not sure my 16 year old will ever have a girlfriend so I'll enjoy it while I can! :lol:

 

Yes, teen parenting is not for the faint of heart. This is one of those things that you just don't have a roadmap for. I am always surprised at the drama my sweet, hardworking, compliant teens still find themselves in.

 

And they do talk to me and want advice but they have to learn for themselves.

[TeenagerMom]

My DD and her BF have been together for about 6 months and well..............he always pays even though DD now works more than he does.  He even tries to pay for anything she is getting while they are out shopping. 

 

But I think he is strong enough in personality to tell her no.  Usually it's her saying no as she is very frugal.  He just loves to spoil her.

[fairfarmhand]

Maybe he needs to slide comments into conversation about how many hours work it takes to pay for x, y, or z.

[KungFuPanda]

I agree with your assessment in the first paragraph and so would my ds. He absolutely knows he was not forced into anything and he isn't mad at her even. He is frustrated but he says "she just doesn't get it." In fact, her mother has said the same thing about her just not getting the value of a dollar. So two good kids. One with a narrow view of the world who has grown up going to nice restaurants and doesn't "get it." The other kid lacking in the confidence to just stand up and be assertive. He says he is ready to be assertive and she says she now "gets it". Time will tell!

They sound adorable. Tell him that girls think assertive men are hot. That should strengthen his resolve :-)

[Sneezyone]

Yes, teen parenting is not for the faint of heart. This is one of those things that you just don't have a roadmap for. I am always surprised at the drama my sweet, hardworking, compliant teens still find themselves in.

 

And they do talk to me and want advice but they have to learn for themselves.

 

This place is great for helping me see what's coming down the pike. DD officially becomes a teen this fall but gets entirely too much interest/attention from boys a year or two older. 'Dating' is not yet allowed here so DD just 'hangs out' with a crew of girls and boys but I know it's not that far off. Shudder. I will definitely add this scenario to my annual spiel about youthful relationships.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Sneezyone

[teachermom2834]

They sound adorable. Tell him that girls think assertive men are hot. That should strengthen his resolve :-)

They are adorable. I like her so much. I have compassion for teens who don't quite have it all figured out yet. I don't hold it against her ...I just want my ds to get a handle on the situation.

[teachermom2834]

This place is great for helping me see what's coming down the pike. DD officially becomes a teen this fall but gets entirely too much interest/attention from boys a year or two older. 'Dating' is not yet allowed here so DD just 'hangs out' with a crew of girls and boys but I know it's not that far off. Shudder. I will definitely add this scenario to my annual spiel about youthful relationships.

All I can tell you to expect is that your dd will get in some scenario that leaves you scratching your head! I could not predict the things that mine have ended up in. Hold on!

Edited July 2, 2017 by teachermom2834

[regentrude]

My teens take turns or share expenses with their dates if they are of similar financial means.

When DS was dating a girl who was significantly poorer, he paid for most.

But normally, I do not see any reason why the boy shoud always pay. My DD would feel bad if her bf would pay for everything; she insists on taking turns/sharing expenses.

Edited July 2, 2017 by regentrude

[regentrude]

I think your DS needs to have an open conversation with the girl about his budget. He knows this is beyond his means, and there is absolutely nothing wrong in speaking up and telling her that he would love to take her out, but cannot afford this pricey place. I see no remedy for the situation besides a frank conversation about finances. And there is nothing embarrassing about it - they just come from different socioeconomic  backgrounds. 

[Pen]

Yes! This is what I am thinking. My ds really does like paying and I do not mind if that is how he wants to spend the money but she cannot say "hey I want you to try this restaurant" and the expect him to pay.

 

I think after the initial months an informal Dutch or taking turns treating, or one person pays for the movie and the other dinner,or one person picks up the tab and the other leaves the tip. I find a long term relationship where a teen boy who busts his butt waiting tables is expected to treat his gf everytime indefinitely is odd.

 

 

 

 

It will be interesting to see what happens after her mom has talked with her.

[regentrude]

I'd be pretty miffed if my dd was dating a boy and he wasn't paying for most/all of their outings for at least the initial months....

 

I think after 4-6 months or so of dating, settling into a little more equitable pattern is fine, but, for the beginning, I think it's nicer for the fellow to pay. 

 

Why the asymmetry?

 

I'd be miffed if my daughter was expecting her date to pay for everything.

 

Often, the guy paying for dates used to translate into expectations that the girl should pay back through favors... yuck. (A friend of mine who lived in the US temporarily was told explicitly that she had accepted three formal dates and whether she would now finally grant sexual favors. She was completely appalled because we don't have a dating culture like this. )

 

I think in the light of this culture, it behooves any girl to insist on symmetric distribution of expenses.

Edited July 2, 2017 by regentrude

[teachermom2834]

It will be interesting to see what happens after her mom has talked with her.

Her parents did not grow up with money. They have it as a function of being good at their jobs but also having the girl very late in life. In fact, girlfriend's parents are my parents age so definitely in a different life stage. They seem to really like ds and appreciate him. We will see how it plays out.

[winterbaby]

I think you handled it well. Honestly, you are being a lot more serene than I would be, because if I think about my minor child being in a relationship with someone much more privileged and that person continually maneuvering my child into paying for unaffordable dates, I would be livid. But here's the thing: my child is a girl. If you think about the shoe going on the other foot, gender-wise, you see how inappropriate it really is. And as a PP noted, this isn't even how traditional etiquette goes; with the traditional male obligation to pay comes initiative in deciding where to go. For the girl to put him up to spending money on her would be very bad manners even if you were the richest family in the world.

 

With him being 17 and that money supposed to be going to college, I don't think it's quite right to stay entirely out of it and chalk it up to a life lesson. Hopefully she "gets it" now. It will be interesting to see what actually happens - whether it's really been innocent ignorance on her part, or if he's being used. I think you can make it clear to him that the way his money is being spent is not acceptable to you without telling him he has to break up, leaving it to him how to resolve it. I would not advise your son to play coy about it with remarks about how long it takes to earn and so forth, but face the issue with her squarely.

[StephanieZ]

Why the asymmetry?

 

I'd be miffed if my daughter was expecting her date to pay for everything.

 

Often, the guy paying for dates used to translate into expectations that the girl should pay back through favors... yuck. (A friend of mine who lived in the US temporarily was told explicitly that she had accepted three formal dates and whether she would now finally grant sexual favors. She was completely appalled because we don't have a dating culture like this. )

 

I think in the light of this culture, it behooves any girl to insist on symmetric distribution of expenses.

 

As I said above . . . I have no rational explanations for my preference. I utterly admit it makes zero sense, lol. 

 

That said, I do see a *LOT* of *VERY* casual sort of relationships 3rd hand through my college girl's friends (and 2nd hand through her own experiences testing out the whole dating thing first year of college . . . which she very soon rejected as not-a-fun-hobby between the breaking boys hearts when she didn't want a 2nd or 3rd date . . . and the not-infrequent requests for s*x from 1st or 2nd dates and even from the friendly neighbor who just wanted to be fun-buddies . . .  She is now very much single and contemplating a life of being a cat lady, lol) . . . There seem to be a zillion (otherwise lovely) college boys who want to just "hang out" and have very casual sex, regularly or irregularly, with a girl. Sometimes, these casual things evolve into bf/gf relationships. Most of the time, they do not. Sometimes, it's clear from the start that they are going to be "friends with benefits" but, I think, most of the time, it's not so clear to one or both of them . . .

 

I find it all very depressing and sad. I think the formality of dating makes it more clear that this is a bf/gf thing . . . Not just two buddies sharing a pizza, sharing a movie, and then going to f*ck. 

 

So, that's probably where much of my aversion to going dutch, etc, at the outset of a relationship comes from. IME, it's most often the girl who is looking for a bf while the boy is looking for a f*ck. If the boy asks the girl out, takes her to dinner . ..  rinse, repeat, over some time . . . then, to me, that looks more like a clear bf/gf situation. I guess it just makes it easier to define "intentions" . . .

 

And, again, I totally admit it's arbitrary and I won't try to argue anyone out of their more rational and equitable beliefs.

 

For me, I decided a long time ago that I'm happy to subsidize my son for a few years of dating . . . to help him practice being sweet and lovely and making a girl feel fabulous. Not $$$ dating (no $75 dinners except for very special occasions, lol) . . . and no, I don't want to routinely hand him cash as he's heading out the door . . . but, I'm just fine to add an extra $100/mo to his college budget spreadsheet to cover dating . . . assuming he dates . . . which I really hope he does, as I really prefer that to the hook up culture that is so rampant. 

[teachermom2834]

I think you handled it well. Honestly, you are being a lot more serene than I would be, because if I think about my minor child being in a relationship with someone much more privileged and that person continually maneuvering my child into paying for unaffordable dates, I would be livid. But here's the thing: my child is a girl. If you think about the shoe going on the other foot, gender-wise, you see how inappropriate it really is. And as a PP noted, this isn't even how traditional etiquette goes; with the traditional male obligation to pay comes initiative in deciding where to go. For the girl to put him up to spending money on her would be very bad manners even if you were the richest family in the world.

 

With him being 17 and that money supposed to be going to college, I don't think it's quite right to stay entirely out of it and chalk it up to a life lesson. Hopefully she "gets it" now. It will be interesting to see what actually happens - whether it's really been innocent ignorance on her part, or if he's being used. I think you can make it clear to him that the way his money is being spent is not acceptable to you without telling him he has to break up, leaving it to him how to resolve it. I would not advise your son to play coy about it with remarks about how long it takes to earn and so forth, but face the issue with her squarely.

First of all- thank you for saying I handled it well. There is so often no good answer with these things and usually they come to a head out of nowhere and you don't have lots of time to ponder.

 

I am serene only because I have had teens long enough just to expect crazy $hit like this. And I see teens who have it together 95% of the time and then they have some blind spot or gap in knowledge that makes them look awful. I just have patience with them as long as they are growing I guess.

 

I would not make him break up with her. I wouldn't even want her to because I truly like her and I think my ds is somewhat responsible for getting himself where he is.

 

That said- because he is supposed to be saving some for college and he is a dependent I do think I am within my rights to guide him. I told him today I want him to propose a plan going forward- he can let us hold a portion of his money,or he can put it in his 529,or he can see her less often, or he can nail down a budget for each outing and go cash only, or he can make sure plans are solid and he has looked at the menu, or he can break up with her. I told him to come to me with a plan.

 

I am a super nice and supportive mom. But, sometimes, I tell my kids I do not feel like I can be supportive and they need a plan to get me solidly onboard. This is one of those times. "I need you to propose a plan going forward so I can be supportive of this relationship." That's where we are. I'm not telling him what to do but I am happy to help him figure it out.

 

Thanks for the discussion, all!

[teachermom2834]

As I said above . . . I have no rational explanations for my preference. I utterly admit it makes zero sense, lol.

 

That said, I do see a *LOT* of *VERY* casual sort of relationships 3rd hand through my college girl's friends (and 2nd hand through her own experiences testing out the whole dating thing first year of college . . . which she very soon rejected as not-a-fun-hobby between the breaking boys hearts when she didn't want a 2nd or 3rd date . . . and the not-infrequent requests for s*x from 1st or 2nd dates and even from the friendly neighbor who just wanted to be fun-buddies . . . She is now very much single and contemplating a life of being a cat lady, lol) . . . There seem to be a zillion (otherwise lovely) college boys who want to just "hang out" and have very casual sex, regularly or irregularly, with a girl. Sometimes, these casual things evolve into bf/gf relationships. Most of the time, they do not. Sometimes, it's clear from the start that they are going to be "friends with benefits" but, I think, most of the time, it's not so clear to one or both of them . . .

 

I find it all very depressing and sad. I think the formality of dating makes it more clear that this is a bf/gf thing . . . Not just two buddies sharing a pizza, sharing a movie, and then going to f*ck.

 

So, that's probably where much of my aversion to going dutch, etc, at the outset of a relationship comes from. IME, it's most often the girl who is looking for a bf while the boy is looking for a f*ck. If the boy asks the girl out, takes her to dinner . .. rinse, repeat, over some time . . . then, to me, that looks more like a clear bf/gf situation. I guess it just makes it easier to define "intentions" . . .

 

And, again, I totally admit it's arbitrary and I won't try to argue anyone out of their more rational and equitable beliefs.

 

For me, I decided a long time ago that I'm happy to subsidize my son for a few years of dating . . . to help him practice being sweet and lovely and making a girl feel fabulous. Not $$$ dating (no $75 dinners except for very special occasions, lol) . . . and no, I don't want to routinely hand him cash as he's heading out the door . . . but, I'm just fine to add an extra $100/mo to his college budget spreadsheet to cover dating . . . assuming he dates . . . which I really hope he does, as I really prefer that to the hook up culture that is so rampant.

I get what you are saying but if I was a girl I would not find it very sweet for a boy to spoil me with money from his parents.

 

And my ds has been paying for everything for over six months. Her bringing over a pizza or leaving the tip on a nice dinner would hardly imply they were just friends and he is looking for a f*ck. No way.

Edited July 2, 2017 by teachermom2834

[reign]

I don't think either view is unreasonable. The trick is finding a date/bf/gf that agrees with your views on the subject.

[bettyandbob]

I haven't had to discuss this with my ds. I know my dd19, broke up with a young man because he wouldn't let her pay for anything. She felt the behavior was controlling.

[Catwoman]

Why the asymmetry?

 

I'd be miffed if my daughter was expecting her date to pay for everything.

 

Often, the guy paying for dates used to translate into expectations that the girl should pay back through favors... yuck. (A friend of mine who lived in the US temporarily was told explicitly that she had accepted three formal dates and whether she would now finally grant sexual favors. She was completely appalled because we don't have a dating culture like this. )

 

I think in the light of this culture, it behooves any girl to insist on symmetric distribution of expenses.

I don't think it's fair to assume that just because a guy pays for dates that he is expecting sexual favors in return. There are lots of boys and men who think it's gentlemanly to pay for their dates and have no expectations of anything further.

 

If a guy is pressuring a girl to have sex with him because he paid for their date, it's because he's an obnoxious idiot, and he would most likely be pressuring her for sex even if she had paid for the date.

[Wheres Toto]

 

I think after the initial months an informal Dutch or taking turns treating, or one person pays for the movie and the other dinner,or one person picks up the tab and the other leaves the tip. I find a long term relationship where a teen boy who busts his butt waiting tables is expected to treat his gf everytime indefinitely is odd.

 

This seems to be the usual way of doing things among my oldest and her friends, even going back to high school.  Once they were considered "dating" or bf/gf, they would often split checks or divide up expenses, depending on how much each was working.  It might not be a direct tit-for-tat.  For example, dd's boyfriend in high school was a football player.  He didn't work many hours during football season.  He worked more the rest of the year.  Dd didn't work as much during dance competition season.  So, she might pay more during fb season, he might pay more during dance season.    They don't seem to have any trouble having these discussions.

 

Dh paid for everything when we were dating, except on one of our first dates where he forgot his wallet.   :001_rolleyes:   He's actually lucky I had the money in my account to cover it (and he did pay me right back).  He made more than twice the money I did, and I was a single mom besides. 

[fairfarmhand]

This seems to be the usual way of doing things among my oldest and her friends, even going back to high school.  Once they were considered "dating" or bf/gf, they would often split checks or divide up expenses, depending on how much each was working.  It might not be a direct tit-for-tat.  For example, dd's boyfriend in high school was a football player.  He didn't work many hours during football season.  He worked more the rest of the year.  Dd didn't work as much during dance competition season.  So, she might pay more during fb season, he might pay more during dance season.    They don't seem to have any trouble having these discussions.

 

Dh paid for everything when we were dating, except on one of our first dates where he forgot his wallet.   :001_rolleyes:   He's actually lucky I had the money in my account to cover it (and he did pay me right back).  He made more than twice the money I did, and I was a single mom besides. 

 

I think it's a great sign that couples can work financial things together even while dating. It shouldn't be embarrassing to say "Not in the budget this month." Nor should the other person be annoyed/disappointed for the realities of life to dictate what they do.

 

ITA that the idea that a guy pays for everything and expects sex in exchange is disgusting. And any guy who had that expectation is a jerk.

 

But yes, OP, your son does need to learn to speak up and think ahead to these situations.

My ds had no idea it would be so expensive and he is not the type to get up and leave after he sees the menu.

 

 

Boy, that's a tough situation.  I do think there's an aspect of this that a lot of folks have skipped over -- he didn't know it would be so expensive.  Maybe she didn't either.  Probably it isn't the kind of restaurant that has the menu posted outside, and I'm guessing that a teenager doesn't know all the conventions that point to the expense of any given restaurant. I can see how it would be really, really hard to leave after having been seated and handed a menu.  I don't think I've ever done that.

 

Maybe the lesson is to always "check the online reviews" of any new restaurant before trying it out, which is code for googling for prices before agreeing to go.

 

Best of luck whatever happens.

Edited July 2, 2017 by GGardner