Nourishing Traditions - what do you think?

[rose]

Friends of mine are constantly recommending this book but I'm highly suspicious. From the little that I've glanced at it it's seemed like a bunch of pseudo-science along the lines of "Dr." Mercola. What do you all think? If you follow Fallon's principles has it made a difference for you?

[Rosie_0801]

I'd very much like to know why some of her footnotes aren't in her bibliography.

 

 

[klmama]

I know people who swear by Nourishing Traditions.  I haven't tried it to know how much it helps with anything. 

 

As for Dr. Mercola, I've been reading his newsletters for many, many years.  He often claims something works that is not recommended by other doctors, and then several years later that same treatment is in mainstream news and shared in doctors' offices as the "latest" recommendation.  It's happened many times.  I don't like how he hawks his own line of supplements, but that doesn't mean his recommendations are wrong.  I've grown to trust his advice, even when I roll my eyes a bit at the sales pitch.

Edited January 26, 2017 by klmama

[MercyA]

I think it looks like way too much work.  :leaving:

 

Seriously, I think the best we can do is eat lots of fruits and vegetables and a mostly natural diet. A little wine and dark chocolate doesn't hurt either.  :)

[Katy]

I can't eat that way - I cannot tolerate that much fat or certain of those vegetables without having chronic diarrhea, even if I stick to it for six weeks.

 

I think some do best on high fat high veggies and some do best on low fat vegan, but what all the healthiest diets have in common is a lot of vegetables.  But even vegetables (sprouts, spinach, others) can contaminate you with e-coli and kill you, and that is more likely with organic produce even though in other measures organic is probably better for you.

 

I think we don't yet know enough about the microbiome to know much more except that the wider variety of produce you eat, the healthier you tend to be.

 

I think there is no magic panacea to protect you from all dietary ills - I've known vegans who drink veggie smoothies daily for years before diagnosis who still managed to die of breast cancer in their mid 20's and someone in his 30's with very low bodyfat on a low-carb diet who still managed to get diagnosed with type 2 diabetes and heart disease in his mid 30's.  I've known nursing home residents who eat junk (the only antioxidant I could see was coffee) and sneak out to smoke but are still healthy in their 90's.

 

I think that if you go off all artificial sweeteners and flavors and added sugar and salt for two weeks your taste buds are reset and you'll tend to crave exactly what you need.

[fdrinca]

I came upon Nourishing Traditions in a time when our family was struggling to figure out what a "good" diet looks like. I came to it on the heels of reading about the China Study, the works of Esslestyn, and the Cleveland Clinic. 

 

I resonated with Nourishing Traditions and WAP-style diets as I contemplated the diet we fed our newborns and infants - high-fat breastmilk. 

 

While we no longer follow a WAP-type diet, the emphasis on high fats came at a very helpful time in our family. My youngest son has ASD, and we have anecdotally found that a high-fat diet has helped take some of the rough edges of his behavioral tics away. We tried GFDF diets, and the couldn't hold a candle to the efficacy of the high fat diet. 

 

ETA: So NT isn't just a high fat diet, but incorporating lots of full-fat animal products in our diet was our lasting takeaway. That and homemade pickled veggies :) 

Edited January 26, 2017 by fdrinca

[rose]

I came upon Nourishing Traditions in a time when our family was struggling to figure out what a "good" diet looks like. I came to it on the heels of reading about the China Study, the works of Esslestyn, and the Cleveland Clinic. 

 

I resonated with Nourishing Traditions and WAP-style diets as I contemplated the diet we fed our newborns and infants - high-fat breastmilk. 

 

While we no longer follow a WAP-type diet, the emphasis on high fats came at a very helpful time in our family. My youngest son has ASD, and we have anecdotally found that a high-fat diet has helped take some of the rough edges of his behavioral tics away. We tried GFDF diets, and the couldn't hold a candle to the efficacy of the high fat diet. 

 

ETA: So NT isn't just a high fat diet, but incorporating lots of full-fat animal products in our diet was our lasting takeaway. That and homemade pickled veggies :)

 

Interesting thoughts. I'm not totally sold on the high fat idea yet but I sure like my pickled veggies. I've got a 40lb box of cabbage waiting to be turned into kraut in my cellar and a five pound bucket of kale-kraut on my porch. My dc devour pickled carrots.

 

[Cecropia]

I tried eating the WAP way over ten years ago, after reading Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.

 

It was too much work, too expensive, and other stuff (like getting mildly ill from raw milk once).  I fell off the wagon...

 

However, I still have/use my copy of Nourishing Traditions, and I have to credit the WAP people for introducing me to some amazing foods and recipes I might never have discovered otherwise.  They also lead me to other health-related rabbit holes that had a lasting influence on me.

[Liz CA]

I found the book to be much more than just a cookbook or one philosophy. It emphasizes preparation methods that have been forgotten or exchanged for faster, presumably easier ways.

Even if you find some suggestions don't work for you, you can still learn a lot about food interactions, enzymes, how the body extracts nutrients from the food we eat and more. It's my go-to book when I have questions about preparation or health benefits or either a certain food or more likely a certain preparation method.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I do some of it.  Not even so much because she gave me the idea to do so.  I enjoy cooking and trying interesting things with food.  I make bone broths.  I don't even really do that with the thought it's healthy, but it's a good use of leftover bones and stuff.  We make sauerkraut.  Although we don't do the quick method.  We happen to like sauerkraut a lot.  I tried making yogurt, but I found it to be an expensive pain so I didn't try again.

 

The rest of it really doesn't interest me.  Sprouting grains for example?  I don't eat a ton of grains and I could not be bothered with sprouting anything.  The "recipes" in the book aren't what I'd call recipes.  They are just regular foods.  Many I already make something like it.  It's kind of an interesting read overall.  Do I buy the more technical health details in it?  Some of it because she stresses eating natural foods.  Some of it meh...not so much.  I don't believe she is giving harmful information, but I don't know that it's necessary to follow it like a religion or something. 

 

My thought is if you happen to like reading books about food...go for it.  If you don't so much, skip it.

Edited January 26, 2017 by SparklyUnicorn

[Katy]

One more thing - it is possible to be allergic to pickled foods.  These foods tend to be high in histamines and not everyone has the ability to break them down.  If you try this diet, watch out for that.  Sometimes hives and chronic diarrhea aren't a "cleansing" reaction at all, they're an allergic reaction.

[SparklyUnicorn]

One more thing - it is possible to be allergic to pickled foods.  These foods tend to be high in histamines and not everyone has the ability to break them down.  If you try this diet, watch out for that.  Sometimes hives and chronic diarrhea aren't a "cleansing" reaction at all, they're an allergic reaction.

 

Do you mean fermented foods?  Sauerkraut made the traditional way isn't pickled.  At least not in the way the stuff you buy in the store (generally) is.

[FaithManor]

It is extreme in terms of some aspects and I tend to avoid extreme outlooks. But I di appreciate the information on digestive issues and enzymes. Some of her veggie recipes were quite delicious. I also modified one of her pastry recipes to use with almond flour for a celiac patient and made a cheesecake with honey instead of sugar. It was positively scrumptious.

 

I think the best part could be the homemade formulas. There have been so many solid reports of problems with baby formula that if I knew someone adopting a baby, I would recommed it. I know a doctor in doctor's without borders who imports the ingredients when he can find them and his wife makes it for their clinic. It has saved many babies whose mamas are too malnourished to produce breast milk or whose mothers died. Some of the babies were only getting water with flour and dribbles of honey in it. Heartbreaking! I do not know how they survived.

[BlsdMama]

Friends of mine are constantly recommending this book but I'm highly suspicious. From the little that I've glanced at it it's seemed like a bunch of pseudo-science along the lines of "Dr." Mercola. What do you all think? If you follow Fallon's principles has it made a difference for you?

 

 

It is a ton of pseudo-science ,definitely with a lot of references to Dr. Mercola. Current science, IMO is really backing up a lot of what is in that book - soaking grains to avoid antinutrients, heavy on bone broth, etc.  (Think paleo, GAPS, etc.)

 

That  said?  CRAZY amount of work.  I don't know how anyone who has more than two other responsibilities (like human care and homeschooling) can keep up with it.

[Greta]

I got really into it, hmm I guess about 15 years ago now, when a group of local ladies got together to order some hard-to-find foods in bulk and discuss diet and health issues once a month.  As far as I know, that group is still going strong.  I dropped out many years ago.  I didn't find it to be as miraculous as they did, and it is a tremendous amount of work to cook that way all the time.  I'm just too lazy for that.  If you enjoy spending a lot of time in the kitchen every day, it can definitely be a rewarding way to prepare food.  I'm just not a domestic goddess at heart, so it wasn't for me.

 

My biggest takeaway from it was that fat is not inherently evil, there are good fats and bad fats.  So I still use the high-quality fats that it recommends instead of the ones that are generally considered "heart healthy" in our culture (meaning real butter, olive oil, coconut oil and not canola oil, vegetable oil, margarine).

 

I think that all of the fermented foods can be very beneficial for those of us who have had digestive issues.  

 

And I think that the beverages are MUCH healthier than soda pop!  I never liked the kvass or kombucha that much, though others seem to, but the recipes like ginger ale, raspberry cooler, apple cider, etc. - those were good!  Much less sweet than what most of us are used to, but that's kind of the idea.  Lately, though, I just drink La Croix and iced tea.  :D

[SamanthaCarter]

It really resonated with me a few years ago and introduced me to a lot of new ideas. I was a follower of a lot of the WAP blogs because I thought (still do) they were on to something. However I remained somewhat skeptical since the footnotes almost exclusively led back to WAP, and then the footnotes on the WAP research reference WAP. Hmm....

 

Anyway, I've pretty much given all that up now, it wasn't something I could have ever made work, due to access, busyness, finances and a love of tasty food.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited January 26, 2017 by SamanthaCarter

[Katy]

Do you mean fermented foods?  Sauerkraut made the traditional way isn't pickled.  At least not in the way the stuff you buy in the store (generally) is.

 

Yes.  Perhaps it's a regional difference, I've heard traditional sauerkraut referred to as pickled.  Not unlike the traditional way of making pickled herring.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Katy

[Liz CA]

It is a ton of pseudo-science ,definitely with a lot of references to Dr. Mercola. Current science, IMO is really backing up a lot of what is in that book - soaking grains to avoid antinutrients, heavy on bone broth, etc.  (Think paleo, GAPS, etc.)

 

That  said?  CRAZY amount of work.  I don't know how anyone who has more than two other responsibilities (like human care and homeschooling) can keep up with it.

 

I found it quite a change at first but have gotten so used to soaking nuts & grains that it is automatic now.

I cook about 8 cups of rice (2-2.5 cups of rice kernels) and have those in the fridge so the rice can go right away with whatever veggies / meat I am preparing. all I need to do is heat it up.

But I can see that for those who have little interest in cooking generally, it would just be an added burden. I love experimenting with culturing veggies, making Kefir and Kombucha which is likely why it never struck me as a huge deal.

 

[Guest]

Great way to eat and a ton of work. I like the recipes I've made from it but I can't go whole hog.

[LucyStoner]

I'm not a big fan of fermented foods and I've been making bone broth without a recipe since I was a child so this book never really appealed.

[Rosie_0801]

Do you mean fermented foods?  Sauerkraut made the traditional way isn't pickled.  At least not in the way the stuff you buy in the store (generally) is.

 

Fermented and pickled foods are both high in histamines.

 

I want to eat them anyway, so I drink nettle tea because it contains anti-histamines.

 

Someone was saying recently that they deal with this problem with an intense course of probiotic pills. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Fermented and pickled foods are both high in histamines.

 

I want to eat them anyway, so I drink nettle tea because it contains anti-histamines.

 

Someone was saying recently that they deal with this problem with an intense course of probiotic pills. 

 

My idea of pickled is spices, salt, and vinegar (sometimes sugar) dumped on something.  That's it. 

 

I used to think sauerkraut was made in this way because it sort of tastes that way.  But real sauerkraut isn't.  Which I know you know.  Just I am confused by the term pickled because you could pickle anything.  Even meat.  But that's just, to me, dumping a vinegary or spicy something or other on top.

 

Maybe this is just a terminology difference. 

[retiredHSmom]

As a fun note, I got to meet the author of Nourishing Traditions on her farm. I bought groupon coupons for a farm tour and the lady running it kept mentioning the book and then she said she was the author.  The picture on the book is definitely her.  It was a fascinating tour

Edited January 26, 2017 by Tania

[SparklyUnicorn]

As a fun note, I got to meet the author of Nourishing Traditions on her farm. I bought groupon coupons for a farm tour and the lady running it kept mentioning the books and then she said she was the author.  The picture open the book is definitely her.  It was a fascinating tour

 

That's very cool!

[mamaraby]

I owned it and several other WAPF books a number of years ago. I was also a member of the WAPF and went to meetings. Meet some...interesting people. I even went to a conference.

 

I no longer own the books and I am no longer a member. I don't soak grains or nuts. I no longer consume raw dairy or ingest high doses of Vitamin A in the form of fermented cod liver oil, or feast on saturated fat and cholesterol. The only thing I still use is the seasonings from her turkey breakfast sausage recipe. With home-smoked tofu, it makes a great pizza topping!

 

IMO? Nourishing Traditions is full of scientifically questionable dietary advice and some stuff that is quite frankly dangerous from a public health perspective. Also, Mercola is kind of a kook.

[Cecropia]

I owned it and several other WAPF books a number of years ago. I was also a member of the WAPF and went to meetings. Meet some...interesting people. I even went to a conference.

 

I no longer own the books and I am no longer a member. I don't soak grains or nuts. I no longer consume raw dairy or ingest high doses of Vitamin A in the form of fermented cod liver oil, or feast on saturated fat and cholesterol. The only thing I still use is the seasonings from her turkey breakfast sausage recipe. With home-smoked tofu, it makes a great pizza topping!

 

IMO? Nourishing Traditions is full of scientifically questionable dietary advice and some stuff that is quite frankly dangerous from a public health perspective. Also, Mercola is kind of a kook.

 

Would you please expand on this post?  What led you to reject just about everything that WAPF recommends?

[BrookValley.]

I owned it and several other WAPF books a number of years ago. I was also a member of the WAPF and went to meetings. Meet some...interesting people. I even went to a conference.

 

I no longer own the books and I am no longer a member. I don't soak grains or nuts. I no longer consume raw dairy or ingest high doses of Vitamin A in the form of fermented cod liver oil, or feast on saturated fat and cholesterol. The only thing I still use is the seasonings from her turkey breakfast sausage recipe. With home-smoked tofu, it makes a great pizza topping!

 

IMO? Nourishing Traditions is full of scientifically questionable dietary advice and some stuff that is quite frankly dangerous from a public health perspective. Also, Mercola is kind of a kook.

 

The bolded.

 

Yes, there are some good pieces. Fermented foods can be great. Not all fat is bad. Bone broth sounds like pretty healthy stuff, but I wouldn't know because I'm a vegetarian and I ain't gonna eat it. :D  But stuff like raw dairy? No. (I raise dairy animals and I don't know a single fellow farmer who doesn't think raw milk is a panacea and safer than pasteurized milk. Science would not agree, no matter what anecdote or random blog you want to send my way.)

 

And Mercola is fully into kook territory, for sure.

 

I've been in the natural foods industry for going on two decades and I have just about seen it all. I would take Nourishing Traditions with a big grain of salt. Pick out any usable, safe info that works for you (obviously your mileage may vary; what works for me might not work for you and vice versa) toss the rest.

[SparklyUnicorn]

One thing I didn't like about it is it may be all super great and healthy, but I started to feel like food was dangerous and poisonous if not prepared in these specific ways.  That might be my own hang up, but uhhh come on.  Our food supply might not be perfect.  Nobody can argue there is too much junk for sale.  But we aren't all instantly dropping dead from the average food that is available. 

 

 

[mamaraby]

Would you please expand on this post? What led you to reject just about everything that WAPF recommends?

See BrookValley's post, but also science and a healthy dose of skepticism. This kind of sums it up - https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/sbm-weston-prices-appalling-legacy/

[SparklyUnicorn]

See BrookValley's post, but also science and a healthy dose of skepticism. This kind of sums it up - https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/sbm-weston-prices-appalling-legacy/

 

Although there are some claims made there they aren't backing up either.

 

I don't buy into a lot of the WP stuff either so that's not where I'm going with my comment. 

[mamaraby]

Although there are some claims made there they aren't backing up either.

 

I don't buy into a lot of the WP stuff either so that's not where I'm going with my comment.

Not there, no. Also wasn't meant to be which is why I said it summed it up.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Not there, no. Also wasn't meant to be which is why I said it summed it up.

 

This is where I always have a hard time with this stuff.  It's similar to the problems I have with religion (oddly enough).  It's like you can go along and think ok that sounds good.  Makes sense.  Ok I see some evidence presented that makes me think you thought this through.  Then it goes on and on and you find more and more points where you think what on freaking earth.  It's like they take every decent idea and turn it into some kind of weird cult like set of rules that they claim needs to dictate your life.  So then I start to think well which parts can I believe at all now.  They attack others for their lack of evidence, but then present a whole bunch of baseless information.

 

That's how I see it anyway. 

[Lawyer&Mom]

Turns out making sauerkraut is really fun. That's all I got out of the book, but hey, I think I got my money's worth.

[Spy Car]

I've got a slow-cooking meaty beef-neck stew on the stove, sauerkraut and lacto-fermented turnips (with beets) on the counter, just drank a glass of milk kefir, have water kefir in the fridge with some homemade Kosher style "Bill" pickles. I've made bone broth stocks for decades, love butter...yada, yada, yada.

 

I read Nourishing Traditions a few years back (as folks kept bringing it up) and despite being sympathetic to many of the ideas, the Weston Price bunch come off like tin-hatters to me.

 

I eat and cook what speaks to me. That's it. Not making food into a cult item.

 

Bill

 

 

[MistyMountain]

I have looked over Nourishing Traditions stuff and it is definitely pseudoscience and quacky information. I think that kind of diet does work well for some people. Different people do good on different diets but the info that they put out on nutrition is not accurate or scientific. Sally Fallon and Weston Price is similar to using Mercola or Natural News as a source for information.

Edited January 27, 2017 by MistyMountain

[Katy]

You guys do realize that the traditional way of making vinegar is by fermenting.  You can distill the vinegar, it will still have histamines.

[Mergath]

I think some of it is useful, some of it is downright dangerous (who the hell recommends giving raw milk to infants???) and a lot of it is woo. For someone who is still stuck on the idea of a fat-free, high sugar, highly-processed diet, it might be an interesting read that gets them to think about food differently. But for anyone who knows anything about what modern science says about food, it's a waste of time.

[kewb]

I like many of the recipes. I think there is useful information. As a pp stated, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

For awhile I went a little nuts with it but it started to consume me. I now use the techniques and recipes I like and ignore the rest.

I still soak my grains because I think it tastes better.

I made bone broth before the book and I continue to do so.

[madteaparty]

I'm not a big fan of fermented foods and I've been making bone broth without a recipe since I was a child so this book never really appealed.

Yes same. We buy raw milk and I don't need the book since I already cook like my particular grandma did. I don't cure my own olives nor slaughter my own chickens though...Yet. Edited January 28, 2017 by madteaparty