vent about doctors (mostly JAWM and/or be gentle)

[creekland]

I think they just don't care. They are getting the same pay regardless. It is sad and depressing.

 

I think they're overworked and one case runs into another making it difficult to keep them separated in their minds.  Then I think they default to whatever they've seen the most of.  I think most have good intentions.

 

Middle son and I have talked about this a bit.  He's suggested finding a young doc who's as fresh out of med school as possible when they still think there may be strange cases out there (he calls them zebras - vs horses being the common stuff).  If I were to head to a doctor again it would either be that or concierge where I'd hope that at least by paying them extra they'd feel obligated to consider my thoughts.

 

But for now I'm done.  "Get rid of the stress in your life" I was told more than once.  I did.  I ditched the doctor appts.  My last BP reading (before donating blood) was 110/70.  No stress.   :lol:   Now if only the health issues would go away.   :glare:

Edited November 3, 2016 by creekland

[Ausmumof3]

Yep. Someone close to me was told their cancer was hunger pains for around three years. Still makes me angry. Although alternative options are far less proven and more chancy I understand why people go with them because at least someone listens. And mainstream Drs only seem interested when the symptoms become life threatening. They aren't so interested in optimal health more in avoiding dying.

 

I'm sure that's a generalisation but that is mostly my experience.

[Ausmumof3]

Also if you really want to be listened to ask to book a double length appointment. That can help them give you a bit more time.

[TechWife]

I mean geesh I even feel like I'm just making stuff up with all my complaining.  Like maybe I'm not seeing it for what it really is.  I'm already very anxious about going there every time I go there.  But come on.  I'm not completely stupid and out of it. 

 

I feel the same way, lately. I generally have a good impression of those in the medical field, but I am now stuck putting several seemingly different symptoms together and I think I've come up with an answer that one of them only mentioned in passing, but it all fits. I don't think the other two practitioners are going to like it, though. I'll wait for the one to get the test results back and then have them sent to the other practitioners and see where to go from there. 

[Farrar]

Sparkly, I hear you. I have developed a deep distrust of doctors after all the cruddy ways I've been treated by them over they years. My final straw was a few years ago when the doctor told me that I wasn't having headaches. Nope, you're not having that, she said. I was like, what the heck!?!? But she walked out of the room. I'm like, I'm so done. What's the point?

 

But... dh was also having issues with doctors and he had actual prescription needs that needed to get filled so he opted us into concierge medicine and... I hate to say it, but it has really changed things. And it's not anywhere near as expensive as I thought it would be. And, oh my gosh, sooooooo much better. They actually listen. You don't waits months and months for an appointment. It's revolutionary. If you have that option near you, I'd look into it before dismissing it. 

[SKL]

I can relate to the feeling (not being listened to), and I think it is very common.

 

Here's a thought.  I hate to say it, but what if you brought your husband along?  Between his being a male (sorry but it's an automatic credibility boost), and there being 2 of you, maybe the doc would take you more seriously.

 

Personally I would probably keep going to new doctors until I got a good vibe.  It's a waste of time (and money) to go and talk to the wall.

[creekland]

Sparkly, I hear you. I have developed a deep distrust of doctors after all the cruddy ways I've been treated by them over they years. My final straw was a few years ago when the doctor told me that I wasn't having headaches. Nope, you're not having that, she said. I was like, what the heck!?!? But she walked out of the room. I'm like, I'm so done. What's the point?

 

But... dh was also having issues with doctors and he had actual prescription needs that needed to get filled so he opted us into concierge medicine and... I hate to say it, but it has really changed things. And it's not anywhere near as expensive as I thought it would be. And, oh my gosh, sooooooo much better. They actually listen. You don't waits months and months for an appointment. It's revolutionary. If you have that option near you, I'd look into it before dismissing it. 

 

I wish we had decent options near us.  The closest I could find online was an hour away (two options - different directions).  One of those had a legal issue against him in a different state.  Hubby looked it up for me.  He had had "relations" with a patient.  That was a dealbreaker for me.  His life is his own with choices, etc, but I didn't want to even think about him sizing me up that way.  The other never responded to a request for more info - a request made on their web site.  I figured if that's the way they respond, what's the difference except more money...

 

You definitely have the advantage looking by being in a more populated area.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Sparkly, I hear you. I have developed a deep distrust of doctors after all the cruddy ways I've been treated by them over they years. My final straw was a few years ago when the doctor told me that I wasn't having headaches. Nope, you're not having that, she said. I was like, what the heck!?!? But she walked out of the room. I'm like, I'm so done. What's the point?

 

But... dh was also having issues with doctors and he had actual prescription needs that needed to get filled so he opted us into concierge medicine and... I hate to say it, but it has really changed things. And it's not anywhere near as expensive as I thought it would be. And, oh my gosh, sooooooo much better. They actually listen. You don't waits months and months for an appointment. It's revolutionary. If you have that option near you, I'd look into it before dismissing it. 

 

There is pretty much only one thing keeping me going to the next visit at this point.  And that is I need someone to sign a piece of paper for the dentist so they can use a sedative.  Otherwise, I would have given up by now. 

[gardenmom5]

Yeah I admit I am still a little too skeptical to go an ND.  I'm not at all against trying more natural treatments or treatments that don't just focus on prescription drugs, but I don't want to stray TOO far for lack of a better way of putting it.  Plus I don't know if insurance ever covers it and I don't want to spend a zillion dollars on this either. 

 

there seems to be a misconception.

 

naturopaths are not homeopatths.

 

they have accredited medical schools. they use labs, they can write rx, they do verified studies.   they use far more detailed labs than my other drs have done. 

[gardenmom5]

I think they just don't care. They are getting the same pay regardless. It is sad and depressing.

 

this.  I do think some suffer burnout, over and above the reimbursement thing.

of the ones I went to for a long time - they had much more energy when they were younger.  and a couple - lost the curiosity to check things that seemed "off".  (one even got angry when someone else diagnosed the problem.)

[Guest]

I have had good luck by asking for recommendations. I ask for someone who enjoys being analytical and knows the human side. Biggest surprise I had is that it costs the same to see a local, overworked specialist for 15 min as it does to truck down to the big city and see a specialist that has time for me and a trained professional staff. I am starting to learn which team with what affliations works for me. And I am really really glad that some people have access to a good education and the institution they work for does data analysis. Keep searching. I am alive because I researched my options and found a good team to help me.

I hav no problem getting bloodwork ordered over the phone, bu if you are a new patient that wil be imposible. I am at the point that I just ask the specialist to tack a lipid panel and D3 request on to her needs, then forward those to the primary before I get there. One stick, all done.

I hope that qualifies as gentle. Dont give up, good people are out there.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[Seasider]

I have a concierge doctor now and he listens and takes care of things. He doesn't dismiss things like vitamin deficiencies or probiotic use or herbals I use (I use turmeric as part of my arthritis treatment and Heliocare for prevention of sun damage since I have had skin cancer and this was recommended by my dermatologist).

I was going to second the concierge doctor. I know not everyone can go this route, but a relative of mine has one and loves the arrangement. Hour long appointments, no waiting, even house calls should one become necessary. Direct phone and email contact with the physician, no running the gauntlet through layers of office staff.

[J-rap]

I'm sorry --  how frustrating.  A doctor should be listening to every little symptom you tell them about, because you never know which bits of information will steer them in the right direction.  As my brother says, the most helpful information he can get from a patient is when he hears all the little symptoms.  And then, it's often the ones that veer completely off the the path of typical symptoms (even typical untypical symptoms -- if that makes sense) that help him better understand what's going on.  The outliers.

 

As a few others have said, a nurse practitioner is sometimes a good person to see.  I have had the best luck with nurse practitioners, and that is in fact who I consider my primary care doctor right now:  a nurse practitioner.  She's the best "doctor" I've had in a long time.

 

 

[mamakelly]

I totally feel your pain. I was feeling awful and had some pretty funky symptoms. My doctor told me I was fine, to use Rogain on my falling out hair and that I was too young for hormone problems. I went and saw my naturopath, who immediately identified my symptoms as being hormone related. She had me take a saliva hormone test. My results were quite shocking, I definitely had a hormone issue. I pretty much only see my naturopath now. She's the only one that will actually listen!!

[eternalsummer]

I have the same issue, depending on the doctor.  I feel like they can be good in emergencies (I have not had one let me down in an emergent situation) but otherwise it is hit-and-miss.  That makes sense - there are bad plumbers and bad teachers, too.  Maybe you (and I) have just had a run of back luck with this profession.

[Bluegoat]

Very frustrating - this happens with a lot of doctors.

 

I think there are a few reasons that this is so common, even with doctors who aren't really jerks.  One is just that to make any money, appointments on average can't be that long.  ere, based on the  fee for service rates, an average appointment block is usually ten or 15 min for most doctors.  I think it's just not enough time in many cases.

 

Another issue is that doctors actually see a lot of people who think they have exotic problems and such, but really, really don't.  Unless the doctor knows you well, he has very little idea what sort of person you are, what kind of judgement or insight you have.  So, his default is going to tend to be to suspect the most common kinds of explanations before the less common ones.  I'll bet your doctor gets a lot of people in who think they have deficiencies or have been reading something that is really unlikely.  There is a naturopath in my city who writes for the newspaper weekly - it's interesting to see how many people come in one week convinced they need something like intravenous vitamins because that is what she wrote about.

 

I don't really know what anyone can do about this - I think it's a big reason why having a long term GP is an important arrangement.

 

The other thing is, sometimes doctors are reluctant to order tests because of reasons to do with the testing.  The tests might be difficult to interpret, for example, or the results may not be ones with evidence to point to a course of action.  A doctor I know was recently saying this was the reason he dreaded people coming in with testing requests from naturopaths - they often were tests that there was little idea what the results really meant.

 

I think all you can do is try and find a good doctor and keep plugging, but it's also probably worthwhile to be really clear about your thinking and logic - don't assume the doctor will see what you are looking for.  There are a lot of people who mainly come in for reassurance.

 

[Bluegoat]

there seems to be a misconception.

 

naturopaths are not homeopatths.

 

they have accredited medical schools. they use labs, they can write rx, they do verified studies.   they use far more detailed labs than my other drs have done. 

 

Quite a lot of naturopaths do use homeopathy though.  And not just as a placebo.  I think for a lot of people that impacts the assesment of their reliability. 

 

I'm not sure the accreddited thing is a big deal, either - the thing is, who does the accrediting.  You could have an accreditation board for astrology as well, if people wanted one.

[eternalsummer]

Very frustrating - this happens with a lot of doctors.

 

I think there are a few reasons that this is so common, even with doctors who aren't really jerks.  One is just that to make any money, appointments on average can't be that long.  ere, based on the  fee for service rates, an average appointment block is usually ten or 15 min for most doctors.  I think it's just not enough time in many cases.

 

 

 

 

This is irritating

 

I would be happy to pay per minute if necessary to get reliable, accurate care.  I pay my plumber per hour, when we need one.  People pay roofers per hour.  

 

 

On the other hand, I run a small business for a living, and customers that take more than the average amount of time Drive Me Insane.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

I was going to second the concierge doctor. I know not everyone can go this route, but a relative of mine has one and loves the arrangement. Hour long appointments, no waiting, even house calls should one become necessary. Direct phone and email contact with the physician, no running the gauntlet through layers of office staff.

 

Last time I looked there was nothing like this in my area.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I totally feel your pain. I was feeling awful and had some pretty funky symptoms. My doctor told me I was fine, to use Rogain on my falling out hair and that I was too young for hormone problems. I went and saw my naturopath, who immediately identified my symptoms as being hormone related. She had me take a saliva hormone test. My results were quite shocking, I definitely had a hormone issue. I pretty much only see my naturopath now. She's the only one that will actually listen!!

 

Too young for hormone problems?  My sister went into menopause, as did my mother, in her early 30s.  So that's nonsense.  Not to mention I'm sure there are lot of other hormone related problems that can happen at various ages. 

 

I have to look into a naturopath. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Very frustrating - this happens with a lot of doctors.

 

I think there are a few reasons that this is so common, even with doctors who aren't really jerks.  One is just that to make any money, appointments on average can't be that long.  ere, based on the  fee for service rates, an average appointment block is usually ten or 15 min for most doctors.  I think it's just not enough time in many cases.

 

Another issue is that doctors actually see a lot of people who think they have exotic problems and such, but really, really don't.  Unless the doctor knows you well, he has very little idea what sort of person you are, what kind of judgement or insight you have.  So, his default is going to tend to be to suspect the most common kinds of explanations before the less common ones.  I'll bet your doctor gets a lot of people in who think they have deficiencies or have been reading something that is really unlikely.  There is a naturopath in my city who writes for the newspaper weekly - it's interesting to see how many people come in one week convinced they need something like intravenous vitamins because that is what she wrote about.

 

I don't really know what anyone can do about this - I think it's a big reason why having a long term GP is an important arrangement.

 

The other thing is, sometimes doctors are reluctant to order tests because of reasons to do with the testing.  The tests might be difficult to interpret, for example, or the results may not be ones with evidence to point to a course of action.  A doctor I know was recently saying this was the reason he dreaded people coming in with testing requests from naturopaths - they often were tests that there was little idea what the results really meant.

 

I think all you can do is try and find a good doctor and keep plugging, but it's also probably worthwhile to be really clear about your thinking and logic - don't assume the doctor will see what you are looking for.  There are a lot of people who mainly come in for reassurance.

 

Oh and the 10-15 minutes thing...what gets me is they'll often bill for a long complex visit that is described by the code as lasing more than 10-15 minutes, but you don't get more than that.  You are lucky to even get that.  To me they have no right to bill for what they are not providing. 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Quite a lot of naturopaths do use homeopathy though.  And not just as a placebo.  I think for a lot of people that impacts the assesment of their reliability. 

 

I'm not sure the accreddited thing is a big deal, either - the thing is, who does the accrediting.  You could have an accreditation board for astrology as well, if people wanted one.

 

Yeah this is my thing.  I'm not totally against the idea of homeopathy, but I am skeptical of the effectiveness and these things are not without risk just because they are homeopathic.  I was at the Vitamin Shop yesterday because I was curious what they have in there.  A lot of exotic looking stuff, but I wonder does this stuff do anything?  It's quite expensive and who is testing these things out and determining if they do anything?  Also, who is determining if certain things interact negatively? 

 

What surprises me though is how little doctors even seem to know about drugs.  Now I know they can't know everything about everything, but like the Prevacid.  A lot of doctors assume this is about as harmless of a drug as they come, but it's not if what I'm reading about it is true (good sources, not weird sources).  There are definitely things that aren't so great about it and downright dangerous. 

 

 

[TranquilMind]

This stuff drives me crazy because they (doctors, etc) constantly talk about telling our doctor if we have this sign or symptom.  This sign and symptom is serious...go immediately.  Blah blah blah.  Then you go and they do nothing.  You leave wondering why you wasted your time or wondering if you were being stupid.  Or worried they got it damn wrong. 

 

Hey, someone got paid, and that's the important thing.  (sarcasm). 

 

[TranquilMind]

I can relate to the feeling (not being listened to), and I think it is very common.

 

Here's a thought.  I hate to say it, but what if you brought your husband along?  Between his being a male (sorry but it's an automatic credibility boost), and there being 2 of you, maybe the doc would take you more seriously.

 

Personally I would probably keep going to new doctors until I got a good vibe.  It's a waste of time (and money) to go and talk to the wall.

There is something to this.  We joke that my husband can barely identify a steering wheel while I know a good deal about cars.  But I trot him out sometimes when I am making a deal, because silver haired human with a p***s equals automatic credibility with some elements.  ;)

 

I've taken him  on important medical appointments.  Two on one is better than one on one, and besides, someone else is there to take notes, and clarify your recollections. 

 

 

[Bluegoat]

Yeah this is my thing.  I'm not totally against the idea of homeopathy, but I am skeptical of the effectiveness and these things are not without risk just because they are homeopathic.  I was at the Vitamin Shop yesterday because I was curious what they have in there.  A lot of exotic looking stuff, but I wonder does this stuff do anything?  It's quite expensive and who is testing these things out and determining if they do anything?  Also, who is determining if certain things interact negatively? 

 

What surprises me though is how little doctors even seem to know about drugs.  Now I know they can't know everything about everything, but like the Prevacid.  A lot of doctors assume this is about as harmless of a drug as they come, but it's not if what I'm reading about it is true (good sources, not weird sources).  There are definitely things that aren't so great about it and downright dangerous. 

 

It turns me off completely, because I can't take someone seriouly as a doctor who believes what is supposed to be the mechanism for homeopathy.  I find that most of the naturopathic proctises here seem to be aligned with or advertise a bunch of other therapies that are questionable - it almost seems like they are ok with almost anything so long as it is "alternative" medicine.  That makes me suspicious of their training more generally.

 

I also wonder about the supplements, and I find it odd that so many people who dislike the pill focus on conventional medicine are popping a ton of those things.  I also think it can be dodgy that they are being treated as food additives when they are being used as medicine. I know a lot of parents giving or considering giving their kids melatonin, for example, and have no qualms about it because it is sold OTC as a supplement.  The don't know if they don't realize it is actually a hormone or that doesn't mean much to them, but why it isn't regulated I don't know.

[SparklyUnicorn]

It turns me off completely, because I can't take someone seriouly as a doctor who believes what is supposed to be the mechanism for homeopathy.  I find that most of the naturopathic proctises here seem to be aligned with or advertise a bunch of other therapies that are questionable - it almost seems like they are ok with almost anything so long as it is "alternative" medicine.  That makes me suspicious of their training more generally.

 

I also wonder about the supplements, and I find it odd that so many people who dislike the pill focus on conventional medicine are popping a ton of those things.  I also think it can be dodgy that they are being treated as food additives when they are being used as medicine. I know a lot of parents giving or considering giving their kids melatonin, for example, and have no qualms about it because it is sold OTC as a supplement.  The don't know if they don't realize it is actually a hormone or that doesn't mean much to them, but why it isn't regulated I don't know.

 

Yeah I'm more believing in the concept of special diets than of here take this supplement or herb.   I don't believe a special diet will work overnight, but I do believe a good diet or maybe specific diet could be helpful for the long term.  Not always always, but that makes more sense to me than pills that really haven't been tested beyond making sure they won't make you drop dead instantly.

 

And I am ESPECIALLY skeptical of being sold those products at the doctor's office.  I know they are trying to earn a living, but I can't be sure if they push the stuff because it's truly going to be helpful or because they are truly going to be profiting handsomely over it. 

 

I know the placebo effect is a real thing.  If I went in there believing this stuff then it might work for that fact alone, but I'd be going into it highly skeptical.  So I won't be getting any sort of placebo effect. 

[Bluegoat]

I think dietary changes can work, but I think it's really become a go-to answer.  If someone complains about a symptom, or being tired, or getting a lot of colds, they are inundated with advise to cut out certain food groups.  I think a lot of people get strong placebo and nocebo effects from diet related stuff, so it looks like results.  So when I keep hearing about some practioner who tells a lot of people to cut out foods I am also inclined to be skeptical.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think dietary changes can work, but I think it's really become a go-to answer.  If someone complains about a symptom, or being tired, or getting a lot of colds, they are inundated with advise to cut out certain food groups.  I think a lot of people get strong placebo and nocebo effects from diet related stuff, so it looks like results.  So when I keep hearing about some practioner who tells a lot of people to cut out foods I am also inclined to be skeptical.

 

I was more talking about conditions that are longer lasting than a cold.  I don't believe downing a bunch of vitamin C does anything for a cold.

 

And I don't think this works for every single condition.  And if the condition were serious enough I doubt I'd opt to try to eat certain foods instead of getting a drug that has been proven to help. 

[TranquilMind]

It turns me off completely, because I can't take someone seriouly as a doctor who believes what is supposed to be the mechanism for homeopathy.  I find that most of the naturopathic proctises here seem to be aligned with or advertise a bunch of other therapies that are questionable - it almost seems like they are ok with almost anything so long as it is "alternative" medicine.  That makes me suspicious of their training more generally.

 

I also wonder about the supplements, and I find it odd that so many people who dislike the pill focus on conventional medicine are popping a ton of those things.  I also think it can be dodgy that they are being treated as food additives when they are being used as medicine. I know a lot of parents giving or considering giving their kids melatonin, for example, and have no qualms about it because it is sold OTC as a supplement.  The don't know if they don't realize it is actually a hormone or that doesn't mean much to them, but why it isn't regulated I don't know.

 

Hey, say what you want about crazy things that can't work, but I had one of these natural guys heal a 20+ year neck problem by hitting me on the chin with a rubber mallet, after taking about 5 minutes to carefully arrange me (and after X-rays).

 

It's been almost 15 years now and it has never returned.  I'll take it. 

 

[TranquilMind]

I was more talking about conditions that are longer lasting than a cold.  I don't believe downing a bunch of vitamin C does anything for a cold.

 

And I don't think this works for every single condition.  And if the condition were serious enough I doubt I'd opt to try to eat certain foods instead of getting a drug that has been proven to help. 

 

I don't know.  Since we have increased Vitamin C and taken probiotics, it is usually years between catching anything at all.  I did catch something on a plane last week, but was only feeling bad for two days.

 

Edited November 4, 2016 by TranquilMind

[SparklyUnicorn]

I don't know.  Since we have increased Vitamin C and taken probiotics, it is usually years between catching anything at all.  I did catch something on a plane last week, but was only feeling bad for two days.

 

 

Well maybe taking stuff ahead of time helps.  I just have my doubts about taking it when you already have a cold. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by SparklyUnicorn

[TranquilMind]

Well maybe taking stuff ahead of time helps.  I just have my doubts about taking it when you already have a cold. 

 

Can't hurt, unless you overdo it and have to run to the bathroom.  ;)

 

 

[EmseB]

It's important to note that homeopathy is not the same thing as natural or alternative.

 

Homeopathy is a specific thing wherein water or some other medium is said to be charged by the molecules of some other substance such that said substance is actually undetectable in it's medium.

 

Homeopathy is total and complete bunk aside from the placebo effect. There is literally nothing there. It is water and/or sugar.

 

Natural treatments (using herbs or oils or other things) are not homeopathy.

 

I bring this up because people conflate these things them a lot.

[SparklyUnicorn]

It's important to note that homeopathy is not the same thing as natural or alternative.

 

Homeopathy is a specific thing wherein water or some other medium is said to be charged by the molecules of some other substance such that said substance is actually undetectable in it's medium.

 

Homeopathy is total and complete bunk aside from the placebo effect. There is literally nothing there. It is water and/or sugar.

 

Natural treatments (using herbs or oils or other things) are not homeopathy.

 

I bring this up because people conflate these things them a lot.

 

That doesn't sound like something different though.  I thought herbs were one example of a home or natural remedy. 

[hornblower]

That doesn't sound like something different though.  I thought herbs were one example of a home or natural remedy. 

 

the point is homeopathy does nothing. 

 

But herbal and other plant remedies actually have active chemical ingredients. Many are poisonous. Many are beneficial when properly prescribed, distilled & administered. 

 

Homeopathy is water. 

[EmseB]

That doesn't sound like something different though.  I thought herbs were one example of a home or natural remedy. 

 

Homeopathy is something that is often filed under home remedies or natural remedies.  It is water/sugar, supposedly "charged" with a substance.

 

For example -- Zicam sells homeopathic "zinc" cold remedies.  If you look at the ingredients there is no actual amount of zinc in the melts/nasal spray.  It is listed as something like "Zinc acetum 2x". The 2x relates to how many times zinc has supposedly been diluted in the substance. If you had it analyzed you'd likely not find any zinc at all in the tablet or gel.

 

However, you can take zinc as a supplement.  That is, an actual amount of zinc in the pill, listed in milligrams.  This is not homeopathy.

 

You cannot use "homeopathy" or "homeopathic" synonymously with "natural" or "alternative".

 

ETA:  If something is labled as homeopathic, if you look at the ingredients it will have the substance listed with a dilution level. 

 

If it is the actual herb/extract/oil/mineral itself, that is not homeopathy.

Edited November 4, 2016 by JodiSue

[Bluegoat]

That doesn't sound like something different though.  I thought herbs were one example of a home or natural remedy. 

 

An herbal or home rememdy is just using something herbal or common as a remedy.  Like ginger tea for a stuffy nose.  Lots of herbal remedies are tested and work well, and a lot of conventional drugs are based on them.  There are also some that are bunk, and many that have never been tested.  Some are really effective but dangerous.

 

Homeopathy is very specific, it is a system that says that like cures like, and that infitesimal amounts can be stregthened without side effects by diluting them in water or sometimes another carrier, and sets out the rules of what substances to use for what effect.   The explanation of how this happens makes no sense scientifically and also has never tested as effective. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

An herbal or home rememdy is just using something herbal or common as a remedy.  Like ginger tea for a stuffy nose.  Lots of herbal remedies are tested and work well, and a lot of conventional drugs are based on them.  There are also some that are bunk, and many that have never been tested.  Some are really effective but dangerous.

 

Homeopathy is very specific, it is a system that says that like cures like, and that infitesimal amounts can be stregthened without side effects by diluting them in water or sometimes another carrier, and sets out the rules of what substances to use for what effect.   The explanation of how this happens makes no sense scientifically and also has never tested as effective. 

 

Sounds confusing.

 

But either way, chicken soup totally works.  LOL

[creekland]

I think there are a few reasons that this is so common, even with doctors who aren't really jerks.  One is just that to make any money, appointments on average can't be that long.  ere, based on the  fee for service rates, an average appointment block is usually ten or 15 min for most doctors.  I think it's just not enough time in many cases.

 

Another issue is that doctors actually see a lot of people who think they have exotic problems and such, but really, really don't.  Unless the doctor knows you well, he has very little idea what sort of person you are, what kind of judgement or insight you have.  So, his default is going to tend to be to suspect the most common kinds of explanations before the less common ones.  I'll bet your doctor gets a lot of people in who think they have deficiencies or have been reading something that is really unlikely.  There is a naturopath in my city who writes for the newspaper weekly - it's interesting to see how many people come in one week convinced they need something like intravenous vitamins because that is what she wrote about.

 

I don't really know what anyone can do about this - I think it's a big reason why having a long term GP is an important arrangement.

 

The other thing is, sometimes doctors are reluctant to order tests because of reasons to do with the testing.  The tests might be difficult to interpret, for example, or the results may not be ones with evidence to point to a course of action.  A doctor I know was recently saying this was the reason he dreaded people coming in with testing requests from naturopaths - they often were tests that there was little idea what the results really meant.

 

I think all you can do is try and find a good doctor and keep plugging, but it's also probably worthwhile to be really clear about your thinking and logic - don't assume the doctor will see what you are looking for.  There are a lot of people who mainly come in for reassurance.

 

I agree with you completely and it's why I've opted to ditch doctors entirely rather than "keep plugging."  (Ditch doctors completely for the main part of whatever is wrong with me now.  If I were to break a bone, of course I'd head to one rather than dragging along a body part for the rest of my life.   :lol: )

 

Doctors - even if you see them regularly (what is that, once per year?) do not know a person.  They can't ask others about a person (Hippa and all).  They have to make their best guesses based upon their experience (education or practice).  Most issues will be basic.  I think the vast majority of doctors will do just fine with those (that broken bone bit, but there are other issues similar too).  

 

But once one has exhausted that which doctors (and google) deem normal, then one has to look outside of that box to see what is causing things. (When the voodoo doll theory seems to fit the best...)  This is where I've hit stone walls (twice).  The last one told me "I'm sorry modern medicine has let you down."  My reply?  "It's not modern medicine that has let me down (yet).  (paraphrasing this rest to leave out details)  It's the fact that folks are unwilling to delve deeper into the problem to continue checking it out even when there are others who have had issues that are similar."

 

I've no real reason to think any particular third doctor would be different.  They would have to (ought to) start with the basics (again) and when those are eliminated (again), then hopefully be willing to delve deeper (this is what I doubt would happen).  Due to the time Sparkly mentions for appts, etc, the last one took me a year and health share is paying out a few thousand dollars for nothing different than what I got the first time (tests or answers) - even with progression on symptoms.

 

I think either doctor (GP) I saw would be perfectly fine for all that is common.  I don't think other doctors have the time or past experience to be willing to look for more obscure things either.  It's easier to assume I'm a hypochondriac because what I'm getting "doesn't happen."  And it's easier to prescribe meds to treat symptoms than to look for a cause.  Then there's probably that power struggle part about "whatever you see on google is bunk" - even if it comes from credible medical sources.

 

I refuse the meds due to the potential side effects - causing problems I don't yet have or want.

 

I feel I'm pretty darn healthy except for what is wrong.

 

What is wrong doesn't actually stop me from doing anything - aside from maybe scuba diving (haven't tried that one yet, but sooner or later I will).  I'm not changing my life. (Nerves give pain, but so far haven't affected actual muscle use.)

 

If I'm correct with my guess that the cause is vascular (and yes, that's an "if" without tests), then credible sites tell me there's roughly a 10% annual chance my body will fix itself (from one of the main potential causes).  I'm hoping that one works out. Definite win-win. If not, there's also a 10% annual chance it will knock me out (being blood vessels and all - esp in the head).  I'm ok with that one too - and my family is aware of that possibility IF this is it.

 

If neither of those happen (80% chance annually), then it will all boil down to how much anything progresses and how much I can live with.  That's still a game in progress, so no answers, but my family knows that if better days quit happening... such is life.  They understand.  For now I get through bad ones knowing they are temporary.  I might actually be getting more used to them too.  That would be helpful.

 

When/if middle son gets contacts that can skip over the "unbelievable" aspect of all of it, then there might be hope for that being a solution.  That is the only medical string I'm potentially hoping for at this point.  The rest I've worked through (mentally) and am set with.

 

I don't really think I'm alone in my thought process among those who get to draw the "lucky"  :cursing: straws for the unusual things.  From what I've read online, many go through a lot of  :banghead:  and questioning their own sanity.  Some are (obviously) more persistent than I am and will try doctor after doctor after doctor.  That's where I (and probably others) differ.  I have no desire to do that.  Que sera, sera is more appealing now that I've hit that wall and reason out the alternatives with the system we live under.

 

Sparkly should keep trying (for now) IMO.  I didn't quit early.  I just caution folks against expecting TV style "all answers are out there and will be found due to a dedicated dr" thinking because the absolute worst time (mentally) I've dealt with is when I had to come to the realization that our Ideal World and Real World differ tremendously with that once one gets outside the norm box - even with the desire to keep checking out credible options - even when $$ is not a factor.  I quite honestly almost didn't survive that moment in time.  I think it's better if folks are prepared that this might be the case and are thankful if it's not rather than being blindsided by the WTH? moments that can toss someone into depression when thinking rationally isn't quite there.

 

Yeah this is my thing.  I'm not totally against the idea of homeopathy, but I am skeptical of the effectiveness and these things are not without risk just because they are homeopathic.  I was at the Vitamin Shop yesterday because I was curious what they have in there.  A lot of exotic looking stuff, but I wonder does this stuff do anything?  It's quite expensive and who is testing these things out and determining if they do anything?  Also, who is determining if certain things interact negatively? 

 

What surprises me though is how little doctors even seem to know about drugs.  Now I know they can't know everything about everything, but like the Prevacid.  A lot of doctors assume this is about as harmless of a drug as they come, but it's not if what I'm reading about it is true (good sources, not weird sources).  There are definitely things that aren't so great about it and downright dangerous. 

 

 

You should consider a subscription to Nutrition Action.  They are a no-advertising allowed newsletter that goes over the results of oodles of actual studies and results in layman's terms (short articles) for all sorts of products, diets, treatments and more.  We used it for my kids Health Class when homeschooling (part of that class) and I've kept it.  It's very helpful with sorting through all the "advice" and options out there - at least - for those of us who like to see actual studies on the issues rather than advertisements or whispers.

 

https://cspinet.org/nutrition-action-healthletter

[EmseB]

Sounds confusing.

 

But either way, chicken soup totally works. LOL

Well, then think of homeopathic chicken soup as a drop of broth in water diluted a bunch more times after that. And then the person selling it tells you it is much more potent and effective in that form.

 

That's homeopathy.

[Denisemomof4]

Yeah I guess I'll keep going, but I'm getting very frustrated. I don't feel like I have something dreadfully serious, but I feel like I need something that needs to be treated.

 

I'm not happy about the new doctor though. Not really. I told her I think I may have some sort of mineral deficiency because the symptoms match AND I'm taking a drug that is known for depleting certain minerals. Not only did she not ask me about the symptoms, she cut me off when I tried to tell her, but what is worse is she said oh that stuff isn't that important, you get what you need from food. Not everyone does and if they have some factor working against them in that department they may not be getting enough from food. Plus that's assuming I have a good diet, which she did not know and did not ask about. I felt dismissed and I do not know what to make of the comment that minerals aren't that important...like this is no big deal.

 

So ya know maybe NOTHING Is important. But why would I then bother even going there in the first place?

Yep. Western medicine is limited and oftentimes they put a bandaid on the issue rather than treating it. With what you said above, U woukd have gone straight to a naturopath.

 

You may remember, it took 32 doctors and 4.5 years before my dd got her diagnosis. Numerous and various tyoes of specialists, tube after tube of blood drawn (twelve in one sitting once!) children's hospitals and other widely known hospitals people travel to from all over the world, novody helped us. I was spoken down to fir putting dd through all the testing, etc. She was so sick. A naturopath is what cured her, a Lymes Literate one.

 

Mineral deficiencies? I would go straight to a good homeopath. I also love ayurveda and Chinese medicine as they treat the system as a whole, not just the one symptom.

[Denisemomof4]

Yeah I admit I am still a little too skeptical to go an ND. I'm not at all against trying more natural treatments or treatments that don't just focus on prescription drugs, but I don't want to stray TOO far for lack of a better way of putting it. Plus I don't know if insurance ever covers it and I don't want to spend a zillion dollars on this either.

I have learned through the years when to see a naturopath and when to see the MD. Almost everything is covered by the naturopath, testing wise. Most of the supplements (minerals, herbs, etc) are not. Then again, you must find a GOOD one.

 

I always opt for a natural treatment which, ahain, treats the ststem as a whole. I avoid pharmaceuticals wheneverpossible.

[Denisemomof4]

Yeah and it crosses my mind that maybe they are prejudice. I'm a SAHP. I show up casually dressed. I'm a 40 something year old woman. Who knows....Maybe they think I'm too dumb to know much.

 

It would be so much easier if I were too dumb. LOL No brain no pain. (I kid..)

I was once actually told to go out and get a real job instead of dreaming up conditions I didn't have. Turns out that at 32 and skinny, my blood pressure was through the roof. Guess I dreamt that uo. $&%^!%# never saw that jerk again and have been on meds 21 years. Never tried a more natural treatment because mt dds health issues burnt me out.

 

I alsi had a cardiologist dusmiss me once he found out I was a sahm.

 

I now do work, but beforw I did start to, I started to tell doctors I was a private tutor. I got more respect. I also started to dress casual but nicely. I got more respect. It is all maddening.

 

Jerks. They know it all, don't listen and disrespect. I despise most doctors.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I was once actually told to go out and get a real job instead of dreaming up conditions I didn't have. Turns out that at 32 and skinny, my blood pressure was through the roof. Guess I dreamt that uo. $&%^!%# never saw that jerk again and have been on meds 21 years. Never tried a more natural treatment because mt dds health issues burnt me out.

 

I alsi had a cardiologist dusmiss me once he found out I was a sahm.

 

I now do work, but beforw I did start to, I started to tell doctors I was a private tutor. I got more respect. I also started to dress casual but nicely. I got more respect. It is all maddening.

 

Jerks. They know it all, don't listen and disrespect. I despise most doctors.

 

wow

[redheadmom]

Yep. Western medicine is limited and oftentimes they put a bandaid on the issue rather than treating it. With what you said above, U woukd have gone straight to a naturopath.

 

You may remember, it took 32 doctors and 4.5 years before my dd got her diagnosis. Numerous and various tyoes of specialists, tube after tube of blood drawn (twelve in one sitting once!) children's hospitals and other widely known hospitals people travel to from all over the world, novody helped us. I was spoken down to fir putting dd through all the testing, etc. She was so sick. A naturopath is what cured her, a Lymes Literate one.

 

Mineral deficiencies? I would go straight to a good homeopath. I also love ayurveda and Chinese medicine as they treat the system as a whole, not just the one symptom.

When I was pregnant with my second child 11 years ago, some of my blood work was slightly elevated. But no one told me or ever followed up on it after the pregnancy. For the next few years I kept telling my dr I was tired a lot. I was told that I was a mom and it was normal.

 

I continue her to feel exhausted and other symptoms but ignored since the dr never said anything. Fast forward to last year and my third pregnancy. Those same bloodworm numbers were now very, very elevated. We discovered I have a rare blood cancer.

 

I had to fire my first oncologist during my pregnancy because she stressed me out so much and made me feel stupid for asking questions. I now have an oncologist who I love, but honestly still don't have a primary Dr because I haven't found one I like.

 

I kinda wish there was more crossover between specialties so that drs could look at the whole person instead of one specialty. While my delivery was easy and uncomplicated, there were so many drs consulting on my case because each only knew their little part.

[SparklyUnicorn]

When I was pregnant with my second child 11 years ago, some of my blood work was slightly elevated. But no one told me or ever followed up on it after the pregnancy. For the next few years I kept telling my dr I was tired a lot. I was told that I was a mom and it was normal.

 

I continue her to feel exhausted and other symptoms but ignored since the dr never said anything. Fast forward to last year and my third pregnancy. Those same bloodworm numbers were now very, very elevated. We discovered I have a rare blood cancer.

 

I had to fire my first oncologist during my pregnancy because she stressed me out so much and made me feel stupid for asking questions. I now have an oncologist who I love, but honestly still don't have a primary Dr because I haven't found one I like.

 

I kinda wish there was more crossover between specialties so that drs could look at the whole person instead of one specialty. While my delivery was easy and uncomplicated, there were so many drs consulting on my case because each only knew their little part.

 

Terrible.  I mean why do these tests in the first place if they don't do anything with the information?

[creekland]

Having just talked with my mom again tonight (chest pains --> "muscle" --> failed stress test --> 99% blocked artery --> stent), she's still having chest pain, her doctor is still saying it's a pulled muscle, she's lightheaded (possibly from the meds) and she gets out of breath walking from her living room down a small hall to her kitchen.  She wants a revisit to the cardiologist to double check that all is well with the stent, but her GP doctor won't approve it.  Without it being approved, she can't go.  She's even wary of the ER because (she told me) if she goes and they don't admit her, she has to pay a bit toward the cost.

 

I don't get the "pros" of our system in this country at all.

[Random]

Vent away.  I've been dealing with this lately, too.

 

 

Yeah and it crosses my mind that maybe they are prejudice.  I'm a SAHP.  I show up casually dressed.  I'm a 40 something year old woman.  Who knows....Maybe they think I'm too dumb to know much. 

 

It would be so much easier if I were too dumb.  LOL  No brain no pain.  (I kid..) 

 

I have a rectocele that impedes bowel movements.  My gyno's advice was to take a ton of laxatives so I could have a bowel movement.  I told him they make me very sick and I'm in the bathroom all day, for days on end when I take them. 

 

His remark?

 

"Well, you just stay home, right?"

 

 

[Harriet Vane]

Having just talked with my mom again tonight (chest pains --> "muscle" --> failed stress test --> 99% blocked artery --> stent), she's still having chest pain, her doctor is still saying it's a pulled muscle, she's lightheaded (possibly from the meds) and she gets out of breath walking from her living room down a small hall to her kitchen.  She wants a revisit to the cardiologist to double check that all is well with the stent, but her GP doctor won't approve it.  Without it being approved, she can't go.  She's even wary of the ER because (she told me) if she goes and they don't admit her, she has to pay a bit toward the cost.

 

I don't get the "pros" of our system in this country at all.

 

 

Can you call the doctor? Sometimes a oh-so-sweet but carefully worded, concerned conversation can move mountains. Include some red-flag vocabulary--when the tone is sweet but the content is such as to hint at malpractice and death, doors may open. 

 

I don't understand why she cannot see a cardiologist if she has had a stent. Isn't follow-up care with the doctor who did the procedure normal? (Not disbelieving you, just unfamiliar.)

[Rachel]

I haven't read all the replies but maybe try a nurse practitioner. They usually have a nursing degree and then go back for additional training (the ones I know have phds but I'm not sure if that is usual). Since I have switched I have been much happier with my medical care because the approach is different. At the same practice I have seen the NP and the MD. The MD spends a brief amount of time, the NP will listen to all my symptoms and make suggestions and she is usually spot on.