SAHM Question

[HeWillSoar]

There have been a lot of great comments so I will just say that I'm with you.  School, babysitting and raising two kids is more than a full time job. 

[zoobie]

I love Tibbie. That's all. :)

[Aura]

Sounds to me like your dh is just plain clueless and possibly stressed. Not that he's trying to be mean or an @ss, but he's lost in some fantasy world. Allowing him to continue in his little dream world (that he contributes only minimally and his wife makes sure the house is pleasant to look at and listen to) helps absolutely no one. Your trying to make his dream world a reality will likely not work...because it is not real.

 

I agree with some pp that finding some ways to help address his stress levels would be helpful. But I think that it would be helpful to separate those two things: stress vs the condition of the house. If he's stressed, then he should be looking at ways of dealing and coping with stress: exercise, diet, meditation, etc.

 

You could also consider setting some boundaries for yourself and making them clear to your dh. Gently explain what you can and cannot (or will not) do and then release any expectations or guilt for things beyond that. If he continues to live in his dream world, you should not feel guilty because, again, it is not real. Do what you reasonably can and release what you can't.

 

I have been down this road. My dh just did not get it, either. Now that he is working from home, and has been for nearly a year, he has finally started to understand the reality of what it takes to do my job. Sometimes, there's just no better teacher than experience. But even if you can't facilitate that experience, that doesn't mean you should enable his fantasy beliefs.  :grouphug:

[Reefgazer]

It really doesn't matter what you call yourself, or what acronym describes you. The fact is, you have responsibilities that are beyond your capability, quantity wise. It doesn't matter what somebody else can handle; everybody's level of what they can handle is different, and when you reach your level you either have to discard some responsibilities, get outside help or live with the deficiency. My DH is a great dad and wonderful provider, and I'm sure he is not happy when he comes home to see the house a mess and dinner not made or late. But I homeschool two children, work outside the home at night, and teach a class at the co-op, and I have limited time to do other things, including housework of any type. That leaves a few choices: DH does it himself, we hire outside help in the form of a maid or a cook, or it doesn't get done. DH has no extra time either and does not want to hire outside help, therefore, we default to the last option and everybody just has to deal. I suggest you present the options that you have, and do what you can reasonably do as best you can and leave the rest without guilt.

Edited September 24, 2016 by reefgazer

[wintermom]

I say, if a fellow, able-body adult in the house wants even feels they need a super clean house, they are more than welcome to pitch in and clean. I'm there to support these efforts. I'm not the initiator, though. I'm on survival mode. ;)

Edited September 23, 2016 by wintermom

[goldberry]

where he did express frustration that while I was home all day, the house wasn't clean. 

 

Oh hell no.

 

That is all. 

[SKL]

In a daycare center....being with the kids is ALL the teacher does.  A daycare teacher isn't also running one kid to girl scouts and another to softball.  A daycare teacher isn't also trying to do homework or get to class.  A daycare teacher generally isn't cooking meals as well, most that I know about have kids bringing their own lunch.  And even if the kids get a hot lunch, that's not usually cooked by the same teacher taking the kids on walks or outside.  A daycare teacher isn't doing like any of the other things that need to be done to successfully manage a household, a daycare teacher in a daycare center is JUST caring for the kids.  A daycare center just isn't really comparable to a SAHM, particularly not one who is ALSO going to school AND doing daycare IN her home. 

 

I'm guessing the daycare teacher does all of that with her own kids outside of the hours when she's being paid to care for other people's kids.

 

I'm just saying it is not impossible to keep the area reasonably neat during the hours when daycare kids are there.  It's something to aspire to IMO.

 

[Arcadia]

The kids I watch are 22 months (3x week) and 15months (1x a week overlaps with 22mo) and occasionally a friends 3yo. I may also start to watch a 2yo who would overlap with the other 2yo 2x a week possibly.

Does your house layout allow you to babyproof one room and designate that as the daycare room?

A neighbor does daycare and she has baby gates everywhere. Only her living room is the daycare area; kitchen, bedroom, dining room are out of bounds. She takes care of 3 and under so similar age to your daycare charges. She can see the entire living room from her kitchen.

 

There is also the issue of how supportive he is of you homeschooling as I am assuming the babysitting income is needed. My hubby does not want me to work while homeschooling so we put a lot more money aside to emergency fund to buffer unemployment. He won't mind me taking a postgrad class per semester if I can decide which one as I could have time to study while kids are at their online/B&M class but he is worried if I want to take two.

[fairfarmhand]

 

 

 

As far as going in our Bedroon, he occasionally does, but he prefers sitting in his chair in the living room to unwind. I may suggest the bedroom though.

 

 

 

Ask a few probing questions to figure out exactly the 2-3 things that are bugging him. Be honest with him though that it's unreastic for him to be able to walk in the door and sit in his chair in the living room with a neat, tidy house. So you may need adeal where you say: By x o'clock, I'll have things straightened up so you can relax in the living room. But, with the other kids there for an hour after you get in, there's no point in me straightening things up before they go home!

 

But, yeah, my dh forgets sometimes that I am busy all day, but he may not see it because it's been messed up before he made it home!

[BlsdMama]

 

 

I'm just saying it is not impossible to keep the area reasonably neat during the hours when daycare kids are there.  It's something to aspire to IMO.

 

 

 

On a day to day basis over years?

 

I think it's impossible.

 

Truly.

 

 

16 years of homeschooling and when I cared for 2-3 kids (all my own) and they were young kids, meaning they had a few hours of school work?  ABSOLUTELY.  My house was amazing.  Truly.

 

 

But, from what I understand, she's taking the kids out and about (parks, field trips, whatev) and I'm telling you the time spent JUST in getting shoes on, getting out the door, buckling them up, going to the place, getting back, taking off shoes for 5-6 YOUNG children is BOGGLING.

 

If she has  two in diapers and each diaper change takes just five minutes (so 10 minutes for the kids) and she changes diapers five times a day and has just ONE mad, frantic search for baby wipes - she has spent AN ENTIRE HOUR just changing diapers.

 

It is possible that some folks didn't have multiple babies/toddlers.  It's possible you forget how just insanely time consuming they are as a group, but no, no, "reasonably neat" when you focus on things like telling a story, making a meal, cleaning up the meal... No.

 

Picked up-ish? Sure.  Every day my house is picked up.  Twice a week my bathrooms are done.  But I have the help of three teens, one husband, three kids between the ages of 10-13 and I only have HALF the little kids she does.

 

Then add on school.

 

 

Look, I'm on your MARRIAGE'S side here.  If the man is saying, "I'm frustrated about the state of the house," then I love him and a cold beer can be in the fridge and I'll make sure he has toilet paper in the cupboard and clean socks and undies.

 

Heaven help the man if he's saying, "I'm frustrated with YOU.  YOU need to have this place picked up."

 

Because the first is excuseable.  I get frustrated with my house and the beds are made pretty much every day 'cuz I'm past the crazy of five kids at or below the age of 6.  I vent and rant occasionally at the state of my house.  This is acceptable.  But I don't blame my husband because he's working all day.  So neither would it be acceptable for that to happen in reverse.... Unless he wants warm beer, no tp, and a sudden disappearance of undies and socks... And i'm not normally a passive agressive person. :D

[SKL]

On a day to day basis over years?

 

I think it's impossible.

 

Truly.

 

 

16 years of homeschooling and when I cared for 2-3 kids (all my own) and they were young kids, meaning they had a few hours of school work?  ABSOLUTELY.  My house was amazing.  Truly.

 

 

But, from what I understand, she's taking the kids out and about (parks, field trips, whatev) and I'm telling you the time spent JUST in getting shoes on, getting out the door, buckling them up, going to the place, getting back, taking off shoes for 5-6 YOUNG children is BOGGLING.

 

If she has  two in diapers and each diaper change takes just five minutes (so 10 minutes for the kids) and she changes diapers five times a day and has just ONE mad, frantic search for baby wipes - she has spent AN ENTIRE HOUR just changing diapers.

 

It is possible that some folks didn't have multiple babies/toddlers.  It's possible you forget how just insanely time consuming they are as a group, but no, no, "reasonably neat" when you focus on things like telling a story, making a meal, cleaning up the meal... No.

 

Picked up-ish? Sure.  Every day my house is picked up.  Twice a week my bathrooms are done.  But I have the help of three teens, one husband, three kids between the ages of 10-13 and I only have HALF the little kids she does.

 

Then add on school.

 

 

Look, I'm on your MARRIAGE'S side here.  If the man is saying, "I'm frustrated about the state of the house," then I love him and a cold beer can be in the fridge and I'll make sure he has toilet paper in the cupboard and clean socks and undies.

 

Heaven help the man if he's saying, "I'm frustrated with YOU.  YOU need to have this place picked up."

 

Because the first is excuseable.  I get frustrated with my house and the beds are made pretty much every day 'cuz I'm past the crazy of five kids at or below the age of 6.  I vent and rant occasionally at the state of my house.  This is acceptable.  But I don't blame my husband because he's working all day.  So neither would it be acceptable for that to happen in reverse.... Unless he wants warm beer, no tp, and a sudden disappearance of undies and socks... And i'm not normally a passive agressive person. :D

 

Maybe I read it wrong, but it sounds to me like she usually only has her own 2 kids, and a few days she has 1 additional kid part-time, and one day per week she has 1 additional for a total of 4 kids part-time on that 1 day.  None of the kids are old enough for formal homeschooling yet.

 

I'm just suggesting that maybe it's worth considering whether a re-structuring of the day and the space would help make the "reasonably neat" standard realistic on most days.

 

I don't think it's realistic to do all the housework and the mom's school work while there are 4 kids in the house, no.  I don't think the moms who are paying for her services would want her to be spending that time doing her online courses or any involved housework away from the play area.  However, there are many hours in the week when she doesn't have daycare kids in the house.

 

I did say the dad was being a butt.  But that doesn't mean it wouldn't help everyone to consider a different way.

[AnnE-girl]

I just needed to quote this because it should be read more than once. You are awesome, Tibbie.

 

 

If you're not in the mood for a rant from a forty-something mother of four (veteran hs'er) go on and skip this post.

 

 

 

Sometimes we veteran hs'ing moms talk about the reality many of us are facing as middle-aged persons who have been out of the work force. It's not something we thought about as much as young moms, but now that the kids are graduating, we are thinking about retirement, our elderly parents, the mortgage, health care...all of this stuff that we have not been providing for (as much) while hs'ing our kids. I mean, it's not in the hs'ing brochure, is it? Homeschool now, live in poverty later? Lose all your skills? Nothing toward social security? BIG price. BIG risk. We don't talk about it enough.

 

I think this area of extreme overwork for mothers is another elephant-in-the-room subject we need to address more often.

 

The OP's scenario, we hear it all the time in hs'ing groups. Mom is taking care of infants and toddlers, running a business, in college so she can eventually bring more financial security to the family, solely educating multiple children, AND to be considered entirely in charge of the housework and cooking. I could name fifty homeschool moms I personally know who are doing this!

 

What are we, slaves? Martyrs? Superwomen?

 

It starts out because we see each element of the lifestyle as necessary, and fondly believe that if we will just work harder (and forego sleep, adult conversation, exercise, walks in the woods, relationships, sex), of course we can do it. We set it up ourselves and do it TO ourselves.

 

But ten minutes later, there's some man (a husband, usually) wanting to know where his pipe and slippers are, and making us feel like garbage for failing to work three to four full-time jobs AND serve him as he wants to be served.

 

What the hell.

 

Does he work three to four full-time jobs? No. Is he responsible for the mental, emotional, spiritual, and now academic needs of all his children? No. He "goes to work." He gets labeled a "good Dad" if he pays his share of the bills, "allows" his wife to be a SAHM (haha), and speaks to the children once per day before they go to bed. She gets called lazy and a bad housekeeper if she doesn't make an amount of work that outstrips his efforts 4:1 look effortless. I mean, after all, she WAS there all day. What was she doing? Drinking martinis and playing canasta with the neighbors? Gossiping at the back fence?

 

The 1950s called. They want Ward and June Cleaver back, because they can't stand the anachronism of watching us attempt it now.

 

OP, this is not just toward your DH, or toward you for putting up with it. It's a rant I've been working on for awhile. Too many homeschool moms are becoming some kind of second class citizen in their homes, while also getting criticism from society for "not contributing" financially to the family. Just as the 1950s woman was perpetually on valium and booze, my homeschool mom friends are all on medication for depression. Why shouldn't we be depressed? We're the 1950s mom all over again, plus homeschooling, but minus the social structure of support!

 

We really need to tell some of these people where to get off. ("These people" being anyone who thinks we aren't doing enough, whether husbands or the Sunday school committee or the neighbor who wants free babysitting.) And we need to stop doing all of this work that supposedly benefits everyone else if net result is our getting kicked in the teeth.

[SKL]

It's my understanding, that a large number of daycare teachers in daycare centers are on the younger/single/no kids side of thing.  Especially since in most daycare centers, the pay is pretty low, and the kids of the employees still have to pay, even if it's discounted.

 

But, lets say she is.  Lets say she's a mom, doing daycare in a center while her kids are in school.  If the kids are in school, they aren't at home.  If they aren't at home, they aren't dirtying lunch dishes.  If she's working daycare, it's likely that doing things like calling the BMV when she receives a renewal for a vehicle she doesn't own (yeah, that was in my mailbox) on her break....because daycare teachers generally get a timed break just like most other working parents.  Or actually taking a day off work.  Or........actually NOT doing some of the very same things. 

 

Having been a working parent, sometimes, I had to tell my kid No, I can't sign you up for XYZ because there's no way anyone can get off work in time.  And when I was working full time and DH was the one home, we at a lot more frozen pizza etc...there was a WHOLE lot less actual cooking going on.

 

All of which is to say....again....being a daycare teacher is just simply not comparable to being a SAHM, going to school and working from home. 

 

I didn't say it was comparable, I'm saying there are things that are done in daycares that could be helpful for this mom to do at home while caring for multiple children.

 

If you all don't believe it's possible for kids to do clean-up time in a home daycare, then I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

[RioSamba]

My husband says it best, "there are no complainers here, only volunteers."

 

You have toddlers running about, your own children, and you are studying, in an apartment with no dishwasher. I would be very surprised if your hours are shorter or less demanding than DH's. If he needs a cleaner house, he needs to work on a solution that doesn't involve more from you.

[Amy in NH]

BTDT, got the t-shirt.  Get a portable dishwasher.  And put DH in charge of either the dishes OR the laundry.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Amy in NH

[LucyStoner]

Ok, I don't understand this logic that dudes get brownie points for occasionally lending a hand with housework or it is unreasonable for a man to come home from work and, after some degree of down time, do some housework. I've been a FT WOHM and I don't recall getting to come home to a perfectly clean home and dinner on the table. I don't recall anyone telling my husband (who only worked PT and was the primary weekday caregiver for our boys) that he should "aspire" to have everything clean so I o wouldn't have to bother. He did what he could. I did what I could. We paid a dude to do the rest of it or we lived with it undone. No one died.

 

Check out "the man who has it all" on Facebook and Twitter. It's hilarious and turns all the stupid advice we give moms who are working back around on dads who are working.

 

Tell your husband to chill. And FFS to put away the laundry after he folds it.

Edited September 23, 2016 by LucyStoner

[LucyStoner]

Also, he needs to learn that you catch more bees with honey.

 

I don't like to sleep in a bed with sheets tucked in all the way around. My husband does. I tuck the sheets at the bottom and all along his side of the bed. Why? Because he complained to me about it? Hellz no. Because he is so appreciative of what I do that I started thinking, it takes me 3 minutes and makes him happy so I'll do it to show him that I appreciate his hard work and his respect for me.

Edited September 23, 2016 by LucyStoner

[TranquilMind]

You are studying and caring for five kids under 6 in the day? That is more than a full time job in itself and I wouldn't expect your house to be clean. Also I think it would be reasonable for your dh to be pulling his weight a little round the house. Are you getting paid for the babysitting? You are working a four day a week job.

 

Tell your husband to do some housework here and there!  Problem solved.  Wow

 

[duckabell]

I think you have more than enough on your plate right now. My kids are a little older (9, 7, 4), but they don't make nearly the mess when they made when they were younger. Part of that is they've outgrown some of the toys with a million pieces and keep their mess more contained. I also don't have to watch them as closely as I watched my toddlers.

 

A couple of months ago I watched some of my friends' kids, including a toddler, and it was amazing how messy my house was when they left. And I was so busy keeping an eye on their toddler, I couldn't have cleaned it up before or as I was going along. I agree with the others that this is a season of life where it's more messy, and something either has to give or you have to lower your standards, and hopefully your husband can understand and either step up or lower his standards as well.

[Janeway]

You may have been on the premises, but you are not the maid. He lives there too. He is out of line.

[pinkmint]

Tibbie for president. That's all I have to say.

[December]

I remember feeling a bit inferior when I left my husband alone with our four kids for the day and came back to it being so much cleaner than it normally was.  Then I found out that in order to accomplish that he didn't eat at all the whole day, nor feed the kids an actual meal. (The kids managed to get a hold of a loaf of bread, so they weren't totally starving.)

[naturegirl]

I told dh about this thread.  his comment was classic.

 

​she didn't kill him?

 

This about sums up my feelings on the matter. I think if my husband came home complaining about the cleanliness of the house, that would be the day I knew there was something seriously wrong with him and it was time to explore the possibility of mental illness. 

 

I am not a maid or a housekeeper. I was a journalist. There are many other careers I'd consider as well. But maid isn't one of them (unless things became truly desperate, financially speaking). I've always said I'd rather work full time and pay a housekeeper, than do all the housework myself. 

 

Well, it turns out I can't work full time right now. My son needs me at home homeschooling him. But that still doesn't make me a housekeeper. I do the best I can. We all have clean clothes to wear, clean sheets to sleep on, food to eat and clean dishes to eat that food off of. Beyond that, I do what I can, when I can. I wouldn't tolerate complaints about that, period. 

 

And, I'll step off my soap box now. I don't know why, but this topic always upsets me. I just hate it when women feel like they're are doing something wrong if their house isn't kept spotless.

[jeremmy]

Unrealistic. He prioritizes cleaning over other things, you don't.

My husband is the same way. He keeps an eye on the kids and cleans throughout the day. I read and play with the kids and let the house get dirty until later in the day. Different styles. Now that your are earning your masters sometimes that cleaning later on doesn't happen. He needs to either pick up the slack, or stop being annoyed and let you do it as you have time. When my husband was working 2 jobs and earning his masters there was no way I thought he would also clean the house. When I was pregnant and sick and basically laid on the couch doing nothing but breathing, he cooked and cleaned. It's called partnership.

 

I will say that I learned through the years that my husband wanted a clean room to walk into and he was ok with the other rooms being messier. So I did try to tidy the living room before he got home if I had time.

 

 

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[Lang Syne Boardie]

Tibbie for president. That's all I have to say.

 

Thank you.

 

I am waiting with extreme curiosity to see if President Clinton will be criticized for the housekeeping at the White House, and the appropriateness (and cost) of decorations, menu, and guest list at formal affairs. It'll have to be a woman who gets the comments, obviously. But if not she, than who?

 

They can't just leave the "blame the woman for the household" spot blank.