NP vs. PA?

[MomsintheGarden]

Ds is in high school and is interested in the medical field, and we are exploring lots of options with him together so he can have a chance to shadow and volunteer before college.  We're looking at the MD, DO, PT, NP, and PA professions specifically, and I mentioned that at a party today.  One of the people there was adamant that nurse practitioners are superior to physician assistants in every way - especially in their knowledge and job prospects.  I said that had not been my experience; family members had seen both NPs and PAs and had good experiences with both.  Not knowing much about either profession, it looks to me that they are pretty similar.

 

What do you think?  What is the difference between being or seeing a NP vs. a PA?  What kinds of questions should Ds be answering about himself before going into a health profession in general?

 

Thanks!

GardenMom

[kiana]

I see a lot more NP's in private practice if ds is interested in that possibility. 

 

Also going for a bachelor's in nursing first gives a pretty decent job if ds decides he wants to take some time off and work first. 

[MomsintheGarden]

I see a lot more NP's in private practice if ds is interested in that possibility.

 

Why do you think there are more NPs in private practice?

 

[Ailaena]

I will take an np over a pa in general because I value experience, and many nps were nurses for some time before going np. Maybe some PAs are, too, but unless they've been in practice for a while, I shy away. However, i have recently had experiences that cause me to say that I will see an NP over a fresh md/do, as well.

 

I have seen more job offerings for an np over a pa, and from what I know, there are more nps working in our hospitals/urgent care facilities. I see PAs working in specialist offices, but only recently have I been looking for specialists.

 

I guess your son just has to experience the difference between the jobs to see if there is one he is leaning towards. I knew immediately that nursing was NOT a thing I wanted to do. I still can't explain why. I knew I wanted med school.

[gardenmom5]

does he want to be his own boss?  does he want to give the orders or take orders from a dr/surgeon?

 

that was a question the father of a woman I once worked for asked her .. . . she became a surgeon.  she wanted to give the orders.

[MomsintheGarden]

does he want to be his own boss?  does he want to give the orders or take orders from a dr/surgeon?

 

that was a question the father of a woman I once worked for asked her .. . . she became a surgeon.  she wanted to give the orders.

 

Those are great questions.  The flip side is asking how much responsibility he wants over the business side of things.  If you are in private practice and are a MD/DO/PT you often have to deal with that.

 

[displace]

I highly recommend having him read physicians foundation.org survey of American physicians. It's a 70+ page pdf research paper made every two years that can be eye opening regarding the medical field. It basically discusses if physicians want to be physicians, why/why not, etc. Hint: a lot of people are surprised at how physicians feel about their careers.

 

There are tons of choices in the medical field. Before picking different career titles/degrees, I'd encourage general discussions about life goals: family vs career, career vs finances, life goals that shift with time (family/kids/other), obligations vs freedom, responsibility for a job vs family. These are not insignificant as they affect daily life for decades. Practically speaking, earning medical certificates in a step wise fashion can: allow tons of exposure to verify if the general field is good or not, allow him to earn money while schooling for the next step, and exposure for him to other medical fields. Beginner certificates can be CNA or phlebotomy courses, ultrasound or radiology techs, other local courses.

[Crimson Wife]

N.P.'s have at least a Master's degree and in many states can practice independently. P.A.'s may have only an associate's and always have to be supervised by a M.D. I would definitely encourage my kids to become N.P.'s over P.A.'s if they have that option.

[Crimson Wife]

Also, have him consider other health fields such as audiologist, occupational therapist, medical geneticist/genetics counselor, neuropsychologist, and epidemiologist.

[LucyStoner]

N.P.'s have at least a Master's degree and in many states can practice independently. P.A.'s may have only an associate's and always have to be supervised by a M.D. I would definitely encourage my kids to become N.P.'s over P.A.'s if they have that option.

P.A.s have two years of education following a BS degree. They have prescriptive authority in most every state and can practice independently just like NPs in many ststes. If you are thinking they only have an associates you may be mixing them up with Medical Assistants, who tend to perform basic tasks like taking your vitals before an exam. Not the same thing as a Physician Assistant at all.

 

Here, job listings generally treat PA and NP as equivalent and interchangeable. They are both mid level practitioners.

 

As for the whole do you want to give or take the orders, most of the experienced midlevel practioners I have seen work for themselves and are the ones in charge of their practices. The ones in big group practices or clinics don't seem to be more heavily supervised than the MDs. But I live in a state that allows them to do that.

 

I would research the laws of the state where he wants to live and work after graduation. The scope of practice and pay scale varies depending on where you are.

 

Also, look at the schooling. Here the most competitive applicants for PA or NP programs have several years of healthcare experience already. I think the university which offers our only PA program won't consider applications from those straight out of college with no healthcare experience. NPs have generally worked as nurses before they start their program and PAs were often medics first. PAs emerged out of the military- that's how the profession started.

Edited September 21, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Crimson Wife]

P.A.s have two years of education following a BS degree. They have prescriptive authority in most every state and can practice independently just like NPs in many ststes. If you are thinking they only have an associates you may be mixing them up with Medical Assistants, who tend to perform basic tasks like taking your vitals before an exam. Not the same thing as a Physician Assistant at all.

 

That's changed then in recent years because at least when I went through Stanford in the late 90's, the local community college (Foothill) offered an associate's in PA. I considered transferring to it after I dropped pre-med but my parents were against the idea.

[LucyStoner]

That's changed then in recent years because at least when I went through Stanford in the late 90's, the local community college (Foothill) offered an associate's in PA. I considered transferring to it after I dropped pre-med but my parents were against the idea.

The whole space for mid-level practitioners has changed dramatically in the last 25 years. More and more states are opening up independent practice to mid-levels.

[Pawz4me]

does he want to be his own boss?  does he want to give the orders or take orders from a dr/surgeon?

 

that was a question the father of a woman I once worked for asked her .. . . she became a surgeon.  she wanted to give the orders.

 

My cousin is a PA. She owns her own (thriving) practice, employs several other PAs and NPs and pays a semi-retired doctor to "supervise." But how the legalities of that work likely varies from state to state.

 

I researched the difference in NPs and PAs once and from what I can tell they're pretty much the same, although one tends to specialize a bit more than the other (and I've totally forgotten which one was which).

Edited September 21, 2016 by Pawz4me

[Ottakee]

If you live near a major hospital, see if he can get a job there as a patient transporter or similar. I talked to a great young man who was doing this and he said it provided all sorts of connections in the local hospital, they helped fund his education, and he got to see all aspects of different jobs in the hospital.

 

I have one friend that is an NP and has her doctorate...so really a doctor but not an MD. She has 20 years experience now but is in super high demand and as they recently moved she has her choice ofany different jobs...many at very very good wages...even working only 2 days a week.

[arnold]

I THINK that NP works under their own license while PA works under a Dr's license.

[magnificent_baby]

Ds is in high school and is interested in the medical field, and we are exploring lots of options with him together so he can have a chance to shadow and volunteer before college.  We're looking at the MD, DO, PT, NP, and PA professions specifically, and I mentioned that at a party today.  One of the people there was adamant that nurse practitioners are superior to physician assistants in every way - especially in their knowledge and job prospects.  I said that had not been my experience; family members had seen both NPs and PAs and had good experiences with both.  Not knowing much about either profession, it looks to me that they are pretty similar.

 

What do you think?  What is the difference between being or seeing a NP vs. a PA?  What kinds of questions should Ds be answering about himself before going into a health profession in general?

 

Thanks!

GardenMom

 

I'm an NP, and I disagree with the bolded. PA's are trained very well. I had a few for preceptors in my program and they were very knowledgeable. I would also argue that they have an increased exposure to specialties during their clinical training. I had to set up all of my own clinicals, most of which was in primary care. and specialty practice was only allowed in the last semester. In contrast, I believe most PA programs rotate through specialties from the start, giving them really good hands on skills. In my own experience, I think NP's are better at listening, empathizing and educating patients. That said, I think both NP's and PA's are trained thoroughly and are competent. 

 

One advantage to being an NP is that they are generally more independent. In my state, I am completely independent, not requiring a physician's oversight in any way. In my neighboring state, which I am most likely to work, I will need physician oversight for my first few thousand hours since I'm a new grad, then I'm completely independent. A PA will always need physician oversight in some manner. 

 

Another advantage to being an NP is that the field of nursing is huge. There are so many settings in which one can work with varying degrees. Our instructors highly recommended not quitting our RN jobs until we had an NP job in place, as the process to get going can take awhile. You can always fall back on your RN license to work if unable to find an NP job.  A PA would not be able to do that. On the other hand, a disadvantage to being an NP is having to choose a specialty right away (family, acute care, pediatrics, etc.), which can be slightly limiting in itself. I chose family because it's the broadest. A PA does not specialize. All of the positions I have applied for advertised for either PA or NP, so in my area, both are highly sought. If he is interested in anesthesia, he needs to go the NP route, because PA's are unable to do that, as far as I know. 

 

I would highly suggest looking into programs, cost, length of education (my program recently transitioned to Doctorate and I was the last class of Master's prepared, but not all programs have done this yet). Would highly recommend job shadowing!

 

Good luck! Feel free to ask any other questions. 

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

My cousin is a PA. She owns her own (thriving) practice, employs several other PAs and NPs and pays a semi-retired doctor to "supervise." But how the legalities of that work likely varies from state to state.

 

I researched the difference in NPs and PAs once and from what I can tell they're pretty much the same, although one tends to specialize a bit more than the other (and I've totally forgotten which one was which).

Being a nurse, I would go with being an NP since it would afford you more flexibility in career choices IMO since you still be a nurse too if you still wanted some sort of nursing job of which there are plenty. Whereas a PA does not have a nursing license so if more limited. At least this what I understand:)

[bettyandbob]

My observation is NP and PA are treated with equal level of authority. States differ in whether each can practice independently. As a patient I have a preference for an NP because before going for the NP they've spent some years in direct patient care. I think that gives them a leg up at the start. Although in recent years I've seen more PAs that started out in medical related fields and had some patient experience before getting the PA. When the field was taking off about twenty years ago, most people I knew going to PA programs were career switchers who had no med experience and needed to spend time getting science credits just to apply to PA programs. It's more competitive now, so I think the profile of applicants is much higher.

[ktgrok]

N.P.'s have at least a Master's degree and in many states can practice independently. P.A.'s may have only an associate's and always have to be supervised by a M.D. I would definitely encourage my kids to become N.P.'s over P.A.'s if they have that option.

 

Really? I've known people that were applying to PA school and it was a very rigorous, post bachelors program. 

[Crimson Wife]

Actually, there *ARE* PA programs that are only an associate's. Here is one.

[Splash]

My daughter is looking at both of these as well.  Originally she wanted to be a doctor but with her health concerns we didn't want her to have to go through medical school as we think the loss of sleep would take too much of a toll on her body.  All her doctors are talking through what they think would be best for her and we're leaning toward the nurse practitioner from the things they have been telling her.  The option to work as a RN for awhile before going for NP is also one she likes.  They are also encouraging her to look into the field of genetics and genetic counseling as there is a great need and growth in this area.    

[LucyStoner]

I THINK that NP works under their own license while PA works under a Dr's license.

This is incorrect. Even in states where PAs don't have as wide of latitude in their ability to practice, they have their own licenses.

 

Also states tend to treat NPs and PAs the same way. Midlevels have an expanding number of states allowing them to practice without the direct supervision of an MD.

[LucyStoner]

Actually, there *ARE* PA programs that are only an associate's. Here is one.

There are 25 remaining programs for PAs which don't require a 4 year degree. 211 programs do require a 4 year degree.

 

Also, like all to the other PA programs there are about 2 years worth of prereqs for admission into the program you listed.

 

The number of schools requiring a 4 year degree will grow until it's 100%. It's a very changing field.

 

Also, there are some healthcare training programs that theoretically don't require a 4 year degree but in practice the people getting in often have one...some pharmacy schools are prime examples of this.

 

Here is a directory of PA programs searchable by requirements and other factors:

 

http://directory.paeaonline.org/programs?utf8=✓&state=&degree=&caspa=&gre=&health_xp=&bach_required=1&min_gpa=&start_month=

Edited September 21, 2016 by LucyStoner

[magnificent_baby]

Actually, there *ARE* PA programs that are only an associate's. Here is one.

 

That particular one looks like a whole list of pre-req's required according to the application, perhaps all of those credits equate a bachelor degree?

 

I guess to answer that question, look at your own states PA licensure requirements. For NP's we must have Master's degree at minimum for entry level practice (though this will be changing to to doctorate in the future).

[Butter]

Actually, there *ARE* PA programs that are only an associate's. Here is one.

 

I did an RN program that was similar to how that PA program looks set up.  It was a 2 year program and gave an associates.  But it was actually a 4 year program.  The pre-reqs lasted 2 years and the clinicals lasted 2 years (8 semesters).  Then we had the option to do one evening a week for one year (2 semesters) to complete the requirements for BSN while working as an RN.

 

PAs and NPs are pretty interchangeable in practice once they are licensed, but I think I would encourage my child to do the NP path because they could "exit" at any time for any reason and be a nurse.  In the program I was in there were people in the LPN program that went one full year (3 semesters) in clinicals (pre-reqs same as RN program, first two clinical semesters the same as well).  Many of my classmates chose to take that extra summer semester to get licensed as LPNs and then work in a doctor's office or nursing home while completing the last year of nursing school.  To have so many stopping point options along the way in the field of nursing seems smart to me.

[MomsintheGarden]

I highly recommend having him read physicians foundation.org survey of American physicians. It's a 70+ page pdf research paper made every two years that can be eye opening regarding the medical field. It basically discusses if physicians want to be physicians, why/why not, etc. Hint: a lot of people are surprised at how physicians feel about their careers.

 

There are tons of choices in the medical field. Before picking different career titles/degrees, I'd encourage general discussions about life goals: family vs career, career vs finances, life goals that shift with time (family/kids/other), obligations vs freedom, responsibility for a job vs family. These are not insignificant as they affect daily life for decades. Practically speaking, earning medical certificates in a step wise fashion can: allow tons of exposure to verify if the general field is good or not, allow him to earn money while schooling for the next step, and exposure for him to other medical fields. Beginner certificates can be CNA or phlebotomy courses, ultrasound or radiology techs, other local courses.

Thank you for the great ideas and information!  I especially like the step wise fashion idea because maybe he could do something like phlebotomy as a summer job during college, filling in for people going on vacation.

 

[MomsintheGarden]

N.P.'s have at least a Master's degree and in many states can practice independently. P.A.'s may have only an associate's and always have to be supervised by a M.D. I would definitely encourage my kids to become N.P.'s over P.A.'s if they have that option.

Interesting.  I have never heard of this as our local uni has a PA master's program.  Requirements sound like they are state-specific and changing, which is good to know.

[MomsintheGarden]

Also, have him consider other health fields such as audiologist, occupational therapist, medical geneticist/genetics counselor, neuropsychologist, and epidemiologist.

Great list!  How can we find out about the education requirements for these careers?

 

[MomsintheGarden]

P.A.s have two years of education following a BS degree. They have prescriptive authority in most every state and can practice independently just like NPs in many ststes. If you are thinking they only have an associates you may be mixing them up with Medical Assistants, who tend to perform basic tasks like taking your vitals before an exam. Not the same thing as a Physician Assistant at all.

 

Here, job listings generally treat PA and NP as equivalent and interchangeable. They are both mid level practitioners.

 

As for the whole do you want to give or take the orders, most of the experienced midlevel practioners I have seen work for themselves and are the ones in charge of their practices. The ones in big group practices or clinics don't seem to be more heavily supervised than the MDs. But I live in a state that allows them to do that.

 

I would research the laws of the state where he wants to live and work after graduation. The scope of practice and pay scale varies depending on where you are.

 

Also, look at the schooling. Here the most competitive applicants for PA or NP programs have several years of healthcare experience already. I think the university which offers our only PA program won't consider applications from those straight out of college with no healthcare experience. NPs have generally worked as nurses before they start their program and PAs were often medics first. PAs emerged out of the military- that's how the profession started.

 

Thanks for the great post.  I had not heard of Medical Assistants, so that is good to know.  Our nearby uni has a 2-year master's program for PAs.  I will talk with ds about healthcare experience.  It seems that requirements keep getting upped all the time, both written and unwritten.

 

 

[MomsintheGarden]

My cousin is a PA. She owns her own (thriving) practice, employs several other PAs and NPs and pays a semi-retired doctor to "supervise." But how the legalities of that work likely varies from state to state.

 

I had never heard of this!  That is a clever idea.  Would you mind saying in which state your cousin practices?

 

[Jane Elliot]

Here's a link to another thread discussing this topic. I explained there why my MD husband, who trains both PAs and NPs, encouraged our son to go the NP route. 

[MomsintheGarden]

If you live near a major hospital, see if he can get a job there as a patient transporter or similar. I talked to a great young man who was doing this and he said it provided all sorts of connections in the local hospital, they helped fund his education, and he got to see all aspects of different jobs in the hospital.

 

I have one friend that is an NP and has her doctorate...so really a doctor but not an MD. She has 20 years experience now but is in super high demand and as they recently moved she has her choice ofany different jobs...many at very very good wages...even working only 2 days a week.

 

We live fairly close to a good hospital, so we'll look into the patient transporter job and volunteering.  Thanks for the story about your NP friend.  Thanks!

 

[MomsintheGarden]

I'm an NP, and I disagree with the bolded. PA's are trained very well. I had a few for preceptors in my program and they were very knowledgeable. I would also argue that they have an increased exposure to specialties during their clinical training. I had to set up all of my own clinicals, most of which was in primary care. and specialty practice was only allowed in the last semester. In contrast, I believe most PA programs rotate through specialties from the start, giving them really good hands on skills. In my own experience, I think NP's are better at listening, empathizing and educating patients. That said, I think both NP's and PA's are trained thoroughly and are competent. 

 

One advantage to being an NP is that they are generally more independent. In my state, I am completely independent, not requiring a physician's oversight in any way. In my neighboring state, which I am most likely to work, I will need physician oversight for my first few thousand hours since I'm a new grad, then I'm completely independent. A PA will always need physician oversight in some manner. 

 

Another advantage to being an NP is that the field of nursing is huge. There are so many settings in which one can work with varying degrees. Our instructors highly recommended not quitting our RN jobs until we had an NP job in place, as the process to get going can take awhile. You can always fall back on your RN license to work if unable to find an NP job.  A PA would not be able to do that. On the other hand, a disadvantage to being an NP is having to choose a specialty right away (family, acute care, pediatrics, etc.), which can be slightly limiting in itself. I chose family because it's the broadest. A PA does not specialize. All of the positions I have applied for advertised for either PA or NP, so in my area, both are highly sought. If he is interested in anesthesia, he needs to go the NP route, because PA's are unable to do that, as far as I know. 

 

I would highly suggest looking into programs, cost, length of education (my program recently transitioned to Doctorate and I was the last class of Master's prepared, but not all programs have done this yet). Would highly recommend job shadowing!

 

Good luck! Feel free to ask any other questions. 

 

Wow!  Fantastic post with lots to think about.  Since you said it's ok to ask questions, I will.  :)  Here goes:

 

1.  Is it possible to get into a postgrad PA program with a BSN degree? 

2.  What has your experience as an NP been like personally and professionally? 

3.  What did you do for undergrad?

4.  Looking back at your educational and career path, is there anything you would have done differently?

 

Thanks so much!

 

 

[MomsintheGarden]

My daughter is looking at both of these as well.  Originally she wanted to be a doctor but with her health concerns we didn't want her to have to go through medical school as we think the loss of sleep would take too much of a toll on her body.  All her doctors are talking through what they think would be best for her and we're leaning toward the nurse practitioner from the things they have been telling her.  The option to work as a RN for awhile before going for NP is also one she likes.  They are also encouraging her to look into the field of genetics and genetic counseling as there is a great need and growth in this area.    

 

Sorry about your dd's health concerns.  :(  That's how ds got interested in health care.  He had chronic Lyme and was really helped by his LLMD and the NP who saw him.  It sounds genetics will be a wide-open field for their generation.

 

[MomsintheGarden]

There are 25 remaining programs for PAs which don't require a 4 year degree. 211 programs do require a 4 year degree.

 

Also, like all to the other PA programs there are about 2 years worth of prereqs for admission into the program you listed.

 

The number of schools requiring a 4 year degree will grow until it's 100%. It's a very changing field.

 

Also, there are some healthcare training programs that theoretically don't require a 4 year degree but in practice the people getting in often have one...some pharmacy schools are prime examples of this.

 

Here is a directory of PA programs searchable by requirements and other factors:

 

http://directory.paeaonline.org/programs?utf8=✓&state=&degree=&caspa=&gre=&health_xp=&bach_required=1&min_gpa=&start_month=

Yes, I've heard that about pharmacy schools - most (all?) are PharmD programs for which you need at least a bachelor's.

 

Thanks for the PA directory!  That is going to be very helpful.

 

[MomsintheGarden]

I did an RN program that was similar to how that PA program looks set up.  It was a 2 year program and gave an associates.  But it was actually a 4 year program.  The pre-reqs lasted 2 years and the clinicals lasted 2 years (8 semesters).  Then we had the option to do one evening a week for one year (2 semesters) to complete the requirements for BSN while working as an RN.

 

PAs and NPs are pretty interchangeable in practice once they are licensed, but I think I would encourage my child to do the NP path because they could "exit" at any time for any reason and be a nurse.  In the program I was in there were people in the LPN program that went one full year (3 semesters) in clinicals (pre-reqs same as RN program, first two clinical semesters the same as well).  Many of my classmates chose to take that extra summer semester to get licensed as LPNs and then work in a doctor's office or nursing home while completing the last year of nursing school.  To have so many stopping point options along the way in the field of nursing seems smart to me.

The flexibility of NP is something to keep in mind.  We really need to learn about all the nursing careers; right now the field just looks like a huge pile of acronyms to me.  I've heard that most hospitals require a BS degree now, so they are upping the requirements.

 

Thanks for sharing how it worked for you!

[Pawz4me]

I had never heard of this!  That is a clever idea.  Would you mind saying in which state your cousin practices?

 

 

North Carolina. 

 

She makes a VERY good living.

[magnificent_baby]

Wow!  Fantastic post with lots to think about.  Since you said it's ok to ask questions, I will.  :)  Here goes:

 

1.  Is it possible to get into a postgrad PA program with a BSN degree? 

2.  What has your experience as an NP been like personally and professionally? 

3.  What did you do for undergrad?

4.  Looking back at your educational and career path, is there anything you would have done differently?

 

Thanks so much!

 

 

 

Happy to answer! 

 

1) I suppose it's possible, but the next natural thing after the BSN degree is to stay in nursing (NP as an example); doing PA after a BSN would be possible, but not the same background theory, so it would be a bit like starting over. You would be somewhat ditching the nursing model and now learning via the medical model. Not that one is better than the other ultimately when comparing PA vs NP, just totally different. NP education is nursing based. 

 

2) I'm a brand new grad in the interview process now, so no experience other than my few years of clinicals yet, but DH is a CRNA (type of NP) and my sister is NP as well. DH loves, loves, loves his job in anesthesia. It wouldn't be for me. His hours are not the best at times, with some call required. He makes a very good salary, more than most NP specialties. Primary care NP's have better hours depending on setting, not as much call. There's also acute care programs working as a hospitalist (literally dozens of openings for this in my area, much more opportunity than clinic settings). Acute care is hospital based, so much different than my primary care training. Personally, I loved family practice, getting to know patients, and I love educating. Patient education is what NP's are known for when comparing provider types. The PA's I worked with seemed to be more straightforward, didn't spend as much time educating and thinking holistically as an NP, but very good at procedures and the physical exam (orthopedic complaints for example).  

 

3) I got my education in steps, first an associates in nursing nearly 20 years ago, then BSN when my kids were preschool age, then Master's while they were all in late elementary. I'll be honest, it was brutal to try to raise 3 kids and be in a full time master's program. I was definitely the oldest in my class; most were in their 20's with a few years of nursing experience. This gave them an advantage of having coursework from their BSN still fresh in their heads. I've worked in many nursing settings over the years, so that's the cool thing about going the NP route, so many options and you can truly follow your passion/favorite setting. ER and ICU experience does look best when applying to schools, and it is a requirement for anesthesia programs. I would also highly encourage volunteer work; it's hard to get into school, so volunteering and higher level complexity jobs (ICU for example) make one stand out from the rest.

 

4) The only thing I would have done differently is not stayed home with my kids for so long, leaving big gaps in my career. I loved being home with them and wouldn't trade it for anything, but I almost felt like i was starting over when getting my Master's degree. I held a 4.0 throughout, wasn't easy, but I did have to work hard to refresh my science based knowledge to make it through advanced patho and pharm. I love being a nurse, so I think going into this field you should generally want to help others and be okay with taking care of physical needs that you need to learn first (giving patients bathes, changing dressings, etc.). It is very, very rewarding. I also would have chosen NP over PA if I were able to choose due to the independence level, I think that widens opportunities. 

 

I don't think you can go wrong either way. The baby boomers are aging, and the need is only going to increase! If mental health is an interest, I know a few psych NP's that are writing their own ticket with private practice. It wouldn't be my favorite setting, but if one is interested in that, the money that can be made is incredible because there are so few of them available (doesn't necessarily require a specialized certification, but that does help and there are programs out there). 

[Crimson Wife]

Great list!  How can we find out about the education requirements for these careers?

 

 

Audiologist is a bachelor's + a 4 year AudD. degree (a few schools offer a 3 year AudD)

 

Occupational Therapist is a bachelor's + master's

 

Neuropsychologist is a bachelor's + a PhD. or PsyD. (typically 5 years)

 

Epidemiologist is a bachelor's + a master's in public health or a PhD. in epidemiology

 

Genetics counselor is a bachelor's + master's

 

The Occupational Outlook Handbook list of healthcare careers is a good reference.

[LucyStoner]

Yes, I've heard that about pharmacy schools - most (all?) are PharmD programs for which you need at least a bachelor's.

 

Thanks for the PA directory! That is going to be very helpful.

 

Some pharmD programs technically accept people with all the pharmacy and general ed prereqs and no actual degree but in practice the accepted applicants basically all have degrees. That was the case at UW in Seattle as recently as 3-4 years ago. It may have changed. Edited September 21, 2016 by LucyStoner

[MomsintheGarden]

Happy to answer!

Whoa!  Awesome!  Lots to think and talk about.

 

My main takeaways for ds are that he needs to think about which path before the end of high school so he can pick his undergrad major, and that he should volunteer and shadow to help with that.  I know some NPs who got life science BS degrees with prereqs, then got master's in nursing, so that path seems somewhat flexible.  If I understand what you're saying, if he wants to go the PA (or MD/DO/PT) route, a BSN would not be the right path.

 

I'm glad he has time to shadow and volunteer before the end of high school.

 

Thank you!

[Crimson Wife]

The first 2 years of a lot of the bachelor's programs are fairly similar with the basic science coursework so he doesn't necessarily need to know prior to high school graduation what he wants to do. But he would want to make sure that the university he attends offers the majors that he's considering and that it does not require applying to individual schools within the university (e.g. nursing, education & rehabilitation, arts & sciences, etc.) while in high school. 

[MomsintheGarden]

Some pharmD programs technically accept people with all the pharmacy and general ed prereqs and no actual degree but in practice the accepted applicants basically all have degrees. That was the case at UW in Seattle as recently as 3-4 years ago. It may have changed.

This is along the same lines as engineering and honors programs at many colleges.  Their materials state the minimum requirements, but the reality is much different.  For example, older ds was accepted into an engineering program but his friend was not because he had not had physics and calculus in high school.  Calculus was not a requirement listed, but the friend was told that "everyone" who got accepted had taken it in high school (calc 1 was fine).  The honors program that dd was in says a 3.5 gpa is the minimum, but in reality they have so many applicants the only ones they accept have 4.0s.

 

You can usually dig around and figure out what's really going on, but it's nice when they state it outright.

[MomsintheGarden]

The first 2 years of a lot of the bachelor's programs are fairly similar with the basic science coursework so he doesn't necessarily need to know prior to high school graduation what he wants to do. But he would want to make sure that the university he attends offers the majors that he's considering and that it does not require applying to individual schools within the university (e.g. nursing, education & rehabilitation, arts & sciences, etc.) while in high school. 

Exactly.  That said, you can close doors without realizing it, such as by taking different gen/organic chem or math courses.  You have to be careful and usually take the more rigorous course to keep your flexibility.

[Rachel]

That's changed then in recent years because at least when I went through Stanford in the late 90's, the local community college (Foothill) offered an associate's in PA. I considered transferring to it after I dropped pre-med but my parents were against the idea.

Many schools are no longer offering the PA as a masters degree and it's now a Ph.D., my friend who is a PA thinks the standard will soon be a Ph.D. although it isn't there yet.

 

*after looking at the link you provided I might be confusing PA and PT Ph.D. programs. My friend does think the PA field is moving toward requiring PhDs, but I'm notvsurecwhat she is basing that on.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Rach

[Ravin]

N.P.'s have at least a Master's degree and in many states can practice independently. P.A.'s may have only an associate's and always have to be supervised by a M.D. I would definitely encourage my kids to become N.P.'s over P.A.'s if they have that option.

This doesn't sound right. Where I live, PA is a master's degree program, but your bachelors needn't be in nursing, it can be most anything as long as you have the prerequisite course work (mostly biology and chemistry requirements).

 

One big factor in PA vs. NP is that PA's are required to work under a supervising physician, while in many states a N.P. can have an independent practice.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Ravin

[Katy]

I haven't read everything, but in most states NP's have more ability to open a practice on their own, without physician oversight, than PA's do.

 

Also, their knowledge is typically superior.  NP's typically work in nursing for several years before they go to grad school, and that bedside experience gives NP's a FAR SUPERIOR ability to read patients AND to have a broad overview of the most common problems and the ways different doctors treat such problems.

 

Back when I was making this choice, I chose nursing path.  At that time, a community college in Miami had a PA program there, which I would have chosen if I'd decided to go that path.  IDK if the requirements have changed, but if he's interested he should look into that program.

 

 

ETA:  Many states are moving towards making NP's get doctorates, which is another reason many nurses consider NP's superior.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Katy

[Splash]

Sorry about your dd's health concerns.  :(  That's how ds got interested in health care.  He had chronic Lyme and was really helped by his LLMD and the NP who saw him.  It sounds genetics will be a wide-open field for their generation.

 

Thank you.  We have learned so much about the health care system and so many occupations we didn't even know existed before this. Her sister is thinking she wants to be a child life specialist, which is another  job I didn't even know existed before dd got sick. I hope your son has fully recovered.  Lyme is so nasty.  My daughter's disease is chronic, life threatening, needs infusions every 14 days and genetic so any field she goes into we have to count the cost in her health.  She is doing great and stable but the pace of medical school isn't in the cards unless something dramatically changes.  She is very math and science oriented so every idea she has is related to the medical field.  She also loves art but she figures that won't pay for all her medical bills in the future.

 

Kimberly

[Scarlett]

Being a nurse, I would go with being an NP since it would afford you more flexibility in career choices IMO since you still be a nurse too if you still wanted some sort of nursing job of which there are plenty. Whereas a PA does not have a nursing license so if more limited. At least this what I understand:)

My cousin is a PA and he was a nurse for years before he went back to school to become a PA.

[Mrs_JWM]

 

 

You would be somewhat ditching the nursing model and now learning via the medical model. Not that one is better than the other ultimately when comparing PA vs NP, just totally different. NP education is nursing based.

This is one of the major differences that I wanted to mention. Nursing focuses on caring for the patient as a whole, while medicine diagnoses disease. It may seem insignificant, but it's actually very different. I'm a pre-nursing student and my friend is a pre-PA student and even at this stage in our education, we have different aspects that we focus on.

 

Best of luck to your son!

 

 

Sent from my XT1049 using Tapatalk