Kid Meltdown on Plane; Mom blames passenger who got angry

[SKL]

No, but the article mentioned that the child had some medical issues, so we don't know if she was NT or not.

 

When I see a kid that old having a meltdown or similar, to me that is strong evidence of special needs, so I am that much more likely to be understanding vs. annoyed.  But maybe some folks don't know much about special needs kids.

[Guest]

I dunno you guys...I don't do the fb thing so much, but I do share much of my life online with people.

 

Others have MUCH looser ideas about online privacy than I do, so I can see where to many people, something like this would just be like "of course I'll Facebook this."

 

And we are all kind of sort of complicit by sharing it and taking it apart? Kinda sorta, lil bit?

Edited August 19, 2016 by OKBud

[ChocolateReignRemix]

She obviously wants attention. Even if the situation happened exactly as described, her goal is to make herself the victim, through the proxy of her child.

 

That worries me. It makes me think that maybe she put her daughter in a situation she knew she wouldn't deal well with, without the aid of any medication or considering other travel options, because it allowed her the opportunity to feel persecuted and self-righteous and have a wonderful story to go viral on FB. I suspect she may have even provoked the stranger (imagine the kid screaming for hours, a stranger politely asking if there's anything that can be done, the mom telling her to buzz off, then a back-and-forth between the mom and stranger that got more and more heated--or any number of alternatives to the story as told by the mom).

 

While that is technically all possible, I would say it is more likely that her child had a meltdown and the other passenger overreacted.

[luuknam]

I dunno you guys...I don't do the fb thing so much, but I do share much of my life online with people.

 

Others have MUCH looser ideas about online privacy than I do, so I can see where to many people, something like this would just be like "of course I'll Facebook this."

 

And we are all kind of sort of complicit by sharing it and taking it apart? Kinda sorta, lil bit?

 

Well sure, you can go bitch about someone on your Facebook page. But you don't have to list their name or post their picture, which is what was done in this case, iiuc.

[hornblower]

When I see a kid that old having a meltdown or similar, to me that is strong evidence of special needs, so I am that much more likely to be understanding vs. annoyed.  But maybe some folks don't know much about special needs kids.

 

frankly I think a lot of people think kids should be banned from public places & there are many who think SN kids should definitely not be out 'disturbing' others. 

 

I don't know where it's coming from, this feeling that you're entitled to some serene travel experience.  I know someone who complained that even in first class there were .... children /said in a horrified voice/  (because a rich family was travelling together in first class). 

 

 You travel in some countries and you're just as likely to find yourself on a bus or train with someone carrying live chickens and a dog plus babies and toddlers and the drunk old geezer who never stops talking. We're so spoiled. 

[Corraleno]

She obviously wants attention. Even if the situation happened exactly as described, her goal is to make herself the victim, through the proxy of her child.

 

That worries me. It makes me think that maybe she put her daughter in a situation she knew she wouldn't deal well with, without the aid of any medication or considering other travel options, because it allowed her the opportunity to feel persecuted and self-righteous and have a wonderful story to go viral on FB. I suspect she may have even provoked the stranger (imagine the kid screaming for hours, a stranger politely asking if there's anything that can be done, the mom telling her to buzz off, then a back-and-forth between the mom and stranger that got more and more heated--or any number of alternatives to the story as told by the mom).

 

What the heck??? What other travel options do you suggest? Were they supposed to drive from the Mediterranean island of Ibiza to the north of England? Or perhaps parents of special needs children should simply be forbidden from taking a vacation with their family, lest the special needs child bother someone on the plane?

 

The child's issues include autism and seizures; the family say that she was medically cleared to fly by her doctor and the airline was notified of the child's issues. They purposely sat in the very back of the plane, with the little girl in the window seat surrounded by family. The mom says she politely explained the child's condition to the complaining passenger, who yelled at the child and called the dad a "prick" in front of the children.

 

If you really think that parents of a child with serious special needs purposely set this situation up just so they could "feel persecuted and self-righteous and have a viral story on Facebook," I don't even know what to say. Believe me, parents of autistic kids don't need to set up fake situations if they want to feel persecuted — it happens every damn day, with no special effort on their part.

 

Signed, the aunt of two autistic kids whose parents dare to take them on airplanes sometimes, because even families of special needs kids deserve a vacation — more than most people, actually.

[SKL]

I am not inclined to blindly believe that her side is the whole story though. 

 

She herself had her public tantrum on facebook, which is IMO a hell of a lot meaner than snipping at a kid on a plane.  So maybe she's not such a saint herself, and maybe she played her own part in the problem on the plane.

Edited August 19, 2016 by SKL

[TranquilMind]

She obviously wants attention. Even if the situation happened exactly as described, her goal is to make herself the victim, through the proxy of her child.

 

That worries me. It makes me think that maybe she put her daughter in a situation she knew she wouldn't deal well with, without the aid of any medication or considering other travel options, because it allowed her the opportunity to feel persecuted and self-righteous and have a wonderful story to go viral on FB. I suspect she may have even provoked the stranger (imagine the kid screaming for hours, a stranger politely asking if there's anything that can be done, the mom telling her to buzz off, then a back-and-forth between the mom and stranger that got more and more heated--or any number of alternatives to the story as told by the mom).

 

I kind of agree here that it could have actually happened any number of ways, and not just in the way she tells it.  This is sort of reinforced by her nasty online response about being "sorry she disturbed the beauty sleep" of the other passenger. For all she knows, that other passenger could have issues, could have just been to a funeral, could have blood sugar issues, or any number of things.  I had a boss once who used to scream at everyone if he drank the night before because it messed with his insulin. 

 

If her goal was merely to bring attention to issues like this, the shaming and mocking words wouldn't be so obvious. 

She brought her kid into this, knowing her kid.  At the very least, she could have quietly given a heads-up to those around her and indicated she would do her best but that she was dealing with a special situation here. 

[luuknam]

frankly I think a lot of people think kids should be banned from public places & there are many who think SN kids should definitely not be out 'disturbing' others. 

 

I don't know where it's coming from, this feeling that you're entitled to some serene travel experience.  I know someone who complained that even in first class there were .... children /said in a horrified voice/  (because a rich family was travelling together in first class). 

 

You travel in some countries and you're just as likely to find yourself on a bus or train with someone carrying live chickens and a dog plus babies and toddlers and the drunk old geezer who never stops talking. We're so spoiled. 

 

There's quite a big gray area between a serene travel experience and having a kid have a long meltdown on a long flight where you don't have the option of getting off at the next station if it's getting to be too much. Again, not sure how long the meltdown was in this case.

[Outdoorsy Type]

Flying in a plane is just going to be uncomfortable. We aren't going to ban people with colostomy bags or people with movement disorders. Sometimes the plane is going to stink, a child or pet will be loud, or your seat will get jostled when you recline. It sucks. It's life. A child screamed most of the way on my transcontinental overnight flight. I said a prayer for the parents.

 

ETA: even if the lady had a sensitivity to noise, it doesn't give her the right to yell at a child and curse at the parents. On the small possibility that she can't control the name calling/yelling, the lady shouldn't be traveling alone.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Outdoorsy Type

[TranquilMind]

There's quite a big gray area between a serene travel experience and having a kid have a long meltdown on a long flight where you don't have the option of getting off at the next station if it's getting to be too much. Again, not sure how long the meltdown was in this case.

Yeah, we really need to know that to make a judgment.

If it was a few minutes, the passenger was out of line.  If it was hours, that's another story. 

[mommytobees]

Obviously, the woman should have been kinder and not screamed at the kid if she could at all control herself. That's a given. Kids have meltdowns, and you can't always avoid flying with young children. Nor should you have to.

 

With that said, I recently learned about something called "misophonia," which is a kind of disorder that makes a person intolerant to very specific sounds. (I looked it up in the first place because I couldn't figure out why the sound of my dh watching tv in the bedroom, or our duplex neighbor listening to music, made me freak the f* out like a crazy person and hyperventilate and want to strangle someone.) They don't know much about it, but it has something to do with the association of past trauma with that sound somehow, and the limbic system triggering an adrenaline rush along with rage and fear every time you hear it. I always assumed my issue in that regard was connected to my OCD, and they might in fact be related, but people with no other mental illnesses can have it too. It might also be related to SPD.

 

So what I'm getting at here is that while it's possible the woman is just your run-of-the-mill asshat, it's also possible she had something like misphonia, that crying kids are her trigger, and that she clung to the end of her rope for as long as she could and then lost it.

 

My 15yo daughter has Fibromyalgia, Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (EDS), an autonomic dysfunction disorder that is yet to be specified, is hypersensitive to noises (much like misophonia), and other issues.

 

She has learned that SHE is responsible for her responses to external stimuli. She would have had her own melt down at long-term screaming of a child, however, it is my job to teach her how to cope. Ear plugs, head phones with music or MP3 recordings of static/ocean waves/rain storms, extra pillows, and other physical barriers are all valid options.

 

Yelling at a little girl who is not in control of herself, a stranger, is NOT a valid option.

 

I can have empathy for many different excuses as to why this woman felt she was put out by this child's fit, but there is no excuse to yell at a child.

 

Kris

[Guest]

Does anyone else remember the story of the sn kids on the plane completely freaking out, and there happened to be a sn educator on board who laid down on the floor with him until he stopped screaming?

 

That was just a really great story :-)

[SKL]

My 15yo daughter has Fibromyalgia, Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (EDS), an autonomic dysfunction disorder that is yet to be specified, is hypersensitive to noises (much like misophonia), and other issues.

 

She has learned that SHE is responsible for her responses to external stimuli. She would have had her own melt down at long-term screaming of a child, however, it is my job to teach her how to cope. Ear plugs, head phones with music or MP3 recordings of static/ocean waves/rain storms, extra pillows, and other physical barriers are all valid options.

 

Yelling at a little girl who is not in control of herself, a stranger, is NOT a valid option.

 

I can have empathy for many different excuses as to why this woman felt she was put out by this child's fit, but there is no excuse to yell at a child.

 

Kris

 

This is all fine, but many adults have undiagnosed issues.  Being undiagnosed, they haven't had the benefit of therapy, education, etc. to help them cope or even to realize when their impulses need to be curbed.

 

The other thing is that we really don't know what the back-and-forth looked like here.  If the kid was really in the window seat surounded by her family, and this woman diagonally in front of the aisle seat snapped at the mom, while the 8yo SN kid was having a meltdown or seizure, is it really likely that the kid heard the comment at all?  And what happened next that led to the stranger using the word p---- on the dad?  Polite words rarely elicit that kind of word from anyone.

 

And honestly, I have my limits as far as hearing repetitive, shrill noises.  I apologize in advance if I ever reach that limit and have other than a smile on my face.  :P  I can't imagine myself saying anything other than "is there any way I can help," but then, I am not a very verbal person.  I would be more likely to ball up and suffer in silence.  Not sure that makes me a better person though.

[MistyMountain]

I have been the mom with a child losing it on a plane once. I did all I could do to stop the toddler from crying but nothing helped. I only got looks but the way the other women acted made the situation worse and was not a good way to handle it. On one leg a guy who was a grandfather who sat by us was so nice about it and made me feel better. You cannot leave on a plane and people who have motion sickness, mental health issues, anxiety, sensory issues etc etc may be on a plane and cry, scream or pace the aisles or some other annoying habit. It may be annoying but it is just temporary and there is nothing you can do besides move your seat. You can buy earplugs or noise blocking earphones if you really cannot handle crying or other noises on a plane. With lots of other people on a plane you should prepare that you may have to deal with it.

Edited August 19, 2016 by MistyMountain

[TranquilMind]

My 15yo daughter has Fibromyalgia, Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (EDS), an autonomic dysfunction disorder that is yet to be specified, is hypersensitive to noises (much like misophonia), and other issues.

 

She has learned that SHE is responsible for her responses to external stimuli. She would have had her own melt down at long-term screaming of a child, however, it is my job to teach her how to cope. Ear plugs, head phones with music or MP3 recordings of static/ocean waves/rain storms, extra pillows, and other physical barriers are all valid options.

 

Yelling at a little girl who is not in control of herself, a stranger, is NOT a valid option.

 

I can have empathy for many different excuses as to why this woman felt she was put out by this child's fit, but there is no excuse to yell at a child.

 

Kris

 

Well, if she DID "yell" at the child.  Maybe she just said, "Would you PLEASE keep your child quiet!" or something like that without yelling. 

 

My kids say I "yelled" at them every time I repeat myself or ask a second time about something.  I'm not yelling; I am speaking in a normal tone of voice.  You just aren't listening. 

 

[TranquilMind]

This is all fine, but many adults have undiagnosed issues.  Being undiagnosed, they haven't had the benefit of therapy, education, etc. to help them cope or even to realize when their impulses need to be curbed.

 

The other thing is that we really don't know what the back-and-forth looked like here.  If the kid was really in the window seat surounded by her family, and this woman diagonally in front of the aisle seat snapped at the mom, while the 8yo SN kid was having a meltdown or seizure, is it really likely that the kid heard the comment at all?  And what happened next that led to the stranger using the word p---- on the dad?  Polite words rarely elicit that kind of word from anyone.

 

And honestly, I have my limits as far as hearing repetitive, shrill noises.  I apologize in advance if I ever reach that limit and have other than a smile on my face.  :p  I can't imagine myself saying anything other than "is there any way I can help," but then, I am not a very verbal person.  I would be more likely to ball up and suffer in silence.  Not sure that makes me a better person though.

Yes, to all this!

 

[TranquilMind]

Flying in a plane is just going to be uncomfortable. We aren't going to ban people with colostomy bags or people with movement disorders. Sometimes the plane is going to stink, a child or pet will be loud, or your seat will get jostled when you recline. It sucks. It's life. A child screamed most of the way on my transcontinental overnight flight. I said a prayer for the parents.

 

ETA: even if the lady had a sensitivity to noise, it doesn't give her the right to yell at a child and curse at the parents. On the small possibility that she can't control the name calling/yelling, the lady shouldn't be traveling alone.

 

Those things are different.  One cannot control the issues you named.  You can't remove a colostomy bag or control involuntary movements.

 

A child can be controlled to a large extent; a parent has a job to do there.  If the parent is doing the very best he or she can, that is usually quite evident to everyone.  The parent says things like, "I'm so sorry...we are trying to get her to calm down." and stuff like that.  People understand.  It's when parents just sit there and think their problem should be unilaterally shifted over to you to bear that people get annoyed.  

 

[Samm]

Some airlines (Cathay in particular) want to know in detail what your medical issues are before you board.  They say it's so that they can try to accommodate you, and they do.  Cathay can be great that way.  BUT, it is also their right to deny boarding to anyone who they think can't tolerate the flight, will somehow make the flight depart late (horrible for an airline), or make it turn around and come back (the most horrible).   You are of course free to buy a ticket before investigating but you genuinely run the risk of being denied boarding.  I guess my point is, just because you bought a ticket does not entitle you to a ride no matter what your medical issues are.   It's all in their rules of carriage.

 

I think the Facebook mother reacted horribly by posting and shaming and revealing med conditions and ....

Edited August 19, 2016 by Samm

[Outdoorsy Type]

Those things are different. One cannot control the issues you named. You can't remove a colostomy bag or control involuntary movements.

 

A child can be controlled to a large extent; a parent has a job to do there. If the parent is doing the very best he or she can, that is usually quite evident to everyone. The parent says things like, "I'm so sorry...we are trying to get her to calm down." and stuff like that. People understand. It's when parents just sit there and think their problem should be unilaterally shifted over to you to bear that people get annoyed.

 

I would love to live in this world. It just isn't so. I have witnessed many several incidents where adults were extremely rude to a parent of a SN child and behaved much like the lady in the story.

 

In the long run, I guess it's a moot point though, because we can talk in circles about this situation, but we didn't witness it ourselves. All we can do is project our own experiences and/or choose to believe the written account.

[Mergath]

My 15yo daughter has Fibromyalgia, Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (EDS), an autonomic dysfunction disorder that is yet to be specified, is hypersensitive to noises (much like misophonia), and other issues.

 

She has learned that SHE is responsible for her responses to external stimuli. She would have had her own melt down at long-term screaming of a child, however, it is my job to teach her how to cope. Ear plugs, head phones with music or MP3 recordings of static/ocean waves/rain storms, extra pillows, and other physical barriers are all valid options.

 

Yelling at a little girl who is not in control of herself, a stranger, is NOT a valid option.

 

I can have empathy for many different excuses as to why this woman felt she was put out by this child's fit, but there is no excuse to yell at a child.

 

Kris

 

I wasn't saying it was acceptable. Only that there might be more to it than "horrible mean lady yells at crying child on airplane." Adults can have special needs that make it harder for them to cope, too. 

[Mergath]

I would love to live in this world. It just isn't so. I have witnessed many several incidents where adults were extremely rude to a parent of a SN child and behaved much like the lady in the story.

 

In the long run, I guess it's a moot point though, because we can talk in circles about this situation, but we didn't witness it ourselves. All we can do is project our own experiences and/or choose to believe the written account.

 

I think it's healthy to have discussions like this, trying to see both sides of a situation and talking about the reasons people might do things. It helps us to have empathy and compassion when we find ourselves in a similar situation because we realize there can be more going on than just the other person being an ass.

[Daria]

Those things are different.  One cannot control the issues you named.  You can't remove a colostomy bag or control involuntary movements.

 

A child can be controlled to a large extent; a parent has a job to do there.  If the parent is doing the very best he or she can, that is usually quite evident to everyone.  The parent says things like, "I'm so sorry...we are trying to get her to calm down." and stuff like that.  People understand.  It's when parents just sit there and think their problem should be unilaterally shifted over to you to bear that people get annoyed.  

 

 

This child has Sturge Weber, a condition where benign tumors, made of overgrown blood vessels, grow inside her skull and put pressure on her brain.  It usually causes both developmental disabilities, and intractable seizures.  It is no more voluntary than a colostomy bag or involuntary movements associated with CP. 

 

It's possible that the parents were doing everything in their control to calm her.  It's also possible that her crying was the result of seizures, and her parents knew that they needed to ride through it.  

[SKL]

I have to say that I've flown many miles, and I don't recall ever having anyone act mean to a person with special needs.  I don't recall anyone being nasty to the parent of a loud child.  And I've heard lots of loud children.  :P  So I guess my point is, this isn't a widespread societal problem.  :)

[MrsMommy]

Those things are different.  One cannot control the issues you named.  You can't remove a colostomy bag or control involuntary movements.

 

A child can be controlled to a large extent; a parent has a job to do there.  If the parent is doing the very best he or she can, that is usually quite evident to everyone.  The parent says things like, "I'm so sorry...we are trying to get her to calm down." and stuff like that.  People understand.  It's when parents just sit there and think their problem should be unilaterally shifted over to you to bear that people get annoyed.  

 

 

As the parent of a special-needs child, I have to say, apologizing to people around us is usually the last thing on my mind. Helping my child is my priority, and I'm not going to worry about addressing the people around me. The fact that I am trying to help my child should be evident to the people around me, but really, it's often not, especially if they've already decided how my child should be behaving, and what I should be doing in response (which, in their minds, usually involves physical discipline).

[TranquilMind]

This child has Sturge Weber, a condition where benign tumors, made of overgrown blood vessels, grow inside her skull and put pressure on her brain.  It usually causes both developmental disabilities, and intractable seizures.  It is no more voluntary than a colostomy bag or involuntary movements associated with CP. 

 

It's possible that the parents were doing everything in their control to calm her.  It's also possible that her crying was the result of seizures, and her parents knew that they needed to ride through it.  

Yes, it is possible. I would think they would make this clear though.  We just know nothing more than the one-sided report. 

 

[Garga]

Two weeks ago I was grocery shopping at Walmart with a full grocery area. The entire time I was there a little girl, maybe about 7 (?) was screaming. SCREAMING.

 

She was in the basket part of the shopping cart. She was sitting most of the time, but every now and then she'd half stand up, holding on to the sides. I *think* she was screaming, "I want out!" But it was the kind of scream that's so loud and so full of tears that you can't make out the words. The little girl never actually tried to climb out. She stayed in, but would half stand up from time to time when the cart was still.

 

She was with a grandma-aged person, so probably in her late 50s. The grandma didn't react at all. She very, very calmly continued to shop. She didn't rush. She didn't go extra slow. She acted as if she were alone. She never once yelled at the child.

 

At least two men in their 60's yelled at the little girl as they walked past. "What a big baby! What a big, big baby!" Said one. (Why does my ipad capitalize the word "said" after quotes? I hate that!). The other one yelled, "Just be quiet! Be quiet!" At her.

 

As far as I know, because I wasn't watching the entire time, the grandma didn't respond to those men either.

 

I wasn't sure what to make of it. Yes, it was very hard on the nerves hearing her scream the entire time (about 30-40 minutes while I was there.) You could clearly hear her in the entire grocery area and probably dimly all the way to the half way point in the store--like you could hear her from both doors as you came in to the store, albeit at the farthest door it was probably pretty faded. But if you were anywhere in the grocery area it was LOUD.

 

But the way the grandma acted made me think something was wrong with the little girl--like some sort of diagnosis that made the little girl have these meltdowns. If the little girl was just acting up, then grandma might have yelled or threatened or cajoled something. Grandma just totally ignored it.

 

I wondered if nothing was diagnosably "wrong" with the little girl, and maybe grandma was sick of the meltdowns and was trying a new technique to break the little girl of the habit?

 

I can see it going so many ways with the Walmart girl: grandma trying a new technique because she just doesn't know what to do with a little girl who has meltdowns all the time, grandma was a horrible person and should have taken the girl out of the cart, the little girl has a diagnosable problem and grandma was doing what she was told to do, the little girl has a diagnosable problem and grandma wasn't handling it the right way.

 

Whatever. I don't know.

 

The real point of the story is the men who felt they had some sort of right to yell at the little girl. It was just the older men in their 60s that I saw yelling at her. Oh, and another guy just had a loud conversation with his wife about, "Kids who throw fits in stores." Loudly enough for grandma to hear it.

 

I had a strange conversation with my Dad a couple of months ago when I was visiting my parents. He has worked in retail stores and talked about kids who come in and scream. I was saying that some of them are just being stinkers, but you never know which of them are ones with things like autism or something, but the parents aren't going to walk around the store announcing that to everyone, "Hey everyone! My kid has autism so that's why he's screaming!' My point was that you should extend grace because you never know which parent is deep in the trenches vs just being lazy.

 

My dad got really heated up and said, "Well they should tell us! I have a right to know if your kid is screaming because he has autism!" I said, "But that's his private medical information and that parent is working harder as a parent than you ever had to, so why should that parent walk around telling every stranger in the store what's going on?"

 

My dad just maintained that he had a "right to know" why that kid was screaming. I got tired of arguing and said, "I don't think you'll ever get what you want, but I suppose you have the right to think you do."

 

I think some people just honestly don't believe in dx's and just hate kids. My mom has a friend in her 70s that she wanted us to meet when we visited there and the friend refused because she hates kids and she didn't want to meet my kids. She pretended to be sick so we didn't have to meet.

 

Before I had kids, I remember rolling my eyes and making disgusted noises to my husband when we were in stores with kids screaming. (Not where the parents could hear--just to dh.) I am ashamed of that behavior now. But some people just don't get kids at all. The woman on the plane was probably one of them, and also probably didn't really believe about the medical dx.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Garga

[Guest]

As the parent of a special-needs child, I have to say, apologizing to people around us is usually the last thing on my mind. Helping my child is my priority, and I'm not going to worry about addressing the people around me. The fact that I am trying to help my child should be evident to the people around me, but really, it's often not, especially if they've already decided how my child should be behaving, and what I should be doing in response (which, in their minds, usually involves physical discipline).

I have never heard anyone even mutter such a thought. Usually they offer water and a protein bar along with quiet, and they discretely make sure the rest of the children dont wander off unsupervised as they watch their movie with headphones on.

[mommytobees]

Well, if she DID "yell" at the child.  Maybe she just said, "Would you PLEASE keep your child quiet!" or something like that without yelling. 

 

My kids say I "yelled" at them every time I repeat myself or ask a second time about something.  I'm not yelling; I am speaking in a normal tone of voice.  You just aren't listening. 

 

 

That doesn't change the responsibility of the individual. 

 

There is no excuse to verbally abuse a child or the parents of a child because their child is upset and throwing a fit.

 

Kris

[mommytobees]

I think it's healthy to have discussions like this, trying to see both sides of a situation and talking about the reasons people might do things. It helps us to have empathy and compassion when we find ourselves in a similar situation because we realize there can be more going on than just the other person being an ass.

 

I agree! Even when/if you reach a point of saying, I'll simply agree to disagree, you (the royal 'you') are expanding your mind to hear a different POV.

 

Kris

[MrsMommy]

I have never heard anyone even mutter such a thought. Usually they offer water and a protein bar along with quiet, and they discretely make sure the rest of the children dont wander off unsupervised as they watch their movie with headphones on.

 

It's been almost two decades since I've flown, so obviously I've never had my children on a plane, but I have heard people more than mutter such thoughts when we have been in other public places. It's a lovely experience.

[Garga]

I think it's healthy to have discussions like this, trying to see both sides of a situation and talking about the reasons people might do things. It helps us to have empathy and compassion when we find ourselves in a similar situation because we realize there can be more going on than just the other person being an ass.

Yes to this! It's been because of threads like this that I've learned not to get upset when kids are acting up in public. I mean, as a parent of a kid with ADHD I already got a big dose of humility when I became a parent. I used to think that kids could be easily taught to be seen and not heard (snort!.). I learned quickly how very silly that was.

 

But it's been helpful to me to hear of the realities of raising kids with serious, serious issues. Now when I see a kid acting up, my first instinct it to extend grace to the parents. If I hadn't read these sorts of threads, I might not be as able to do that. I know how to extend grace to parents whose kids are bouncing around like my little ADHDer used to do, but now I can also extend grace to the kids who are melting down.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Garga

[JustEm]

Garga, I've been that parent in a store who has entirely ignored my DD having a meltdown while I stayed calm and continued to shop, with 2 other kids walking alongside of me just ignoring their sister. For me, it was because I knew that any words out of my mouth would turn those screams into trying to hit, throw groceries, or even climbing out of the cart and running away. I even knew that if I chose to just leave the store and do my shopping later did would know to and lash out because she is very aware of her meltdowns and doesn't like them acknowledged. People have stared disapprovingly. Thankfully no one has ever spoken to her negatively.

 

She no longer has meltdowns like that in public and only rarely has them in private. I'm sure that grandma knew what she was doing when she continued with her normal day. Shame on those men for saying anything.

Edited August 19, 2016 by hjffkj

[marbel]

<snip>

At least two men in their 60's yelled at the little girl as they walked past. "What a big baby! What a big, big baby!" Said one. (Why does my ipad capitalize the word "said" after quotes? I hate that!). The other one yelled, "Just be quiet! Be quiet!" At her.

 

<snip>

 

I can see it going so many ways with the Walmart girl: grandma trying a new technique because she just doesn't know what to do with a little girl who has meltdowns all the time, grandma was a horrible person and should have taken the girl out of the cart, the little girl has a diagnosable problem and grandma was doing what she was told to do, the little girl has a diagnosable problem and grandma wasn't handling it the right way.

 

 

I think your ipad is capitalizing because of the exclamation point after baby.

 

I have seen similar things. Honestly, it bothers me more to see people yelling at their kids than it does to see them ignoring it.

 

Here's my story:

 

When my  kids were maybe 2 and 3, or 3 and 4, we went to the grocery store which had a little post office in it.  I had some business to conduct at the PO. I told my kids that if they waited quietly I would get them a donut.  Yes, I bribed them.  Well, as soon as possible after I said this, my boy knocked my girl down. She wasn't hurt.  But he had disobeyed.  So, after I finished my business we walked over to the donut case and I got one for my daughter, but not my son because, you know, he'd disobeyed.

 

And then, as we walked through the store, he wailed "donut... I want my donut..." He was loud and distraught.  I didn't ignore him but I quietly reminded him why he didn't get a donut.   It was horrible. I was careful not to make eye contact with anyone as we did our shopping.

 

In the checkout line, he was still screaming.  The cashier scanned the donut bag, and asked me if I wanted her to give him the donut.  I said 'oh no, thanks' and explained the situation.  She nodded knowingly, as did the woman behind me in line, and the women in the next aisle over.   They were so kind, but of course I had explained and they knew what was going on. 

 

We never had that sort of problem in a store again!   One time was all it took.

 

So, you never know what's really going on.

 

Another thing I remember being told when my kids were little was not to remove them from an undesirable place when they act up, because that shows them that they can escape.  For example, if my kid just hated being in the store, I shouldn't leave the store the minute he starts acting up, because that encourages him to act up, so he can get out of the store.   That can't work for every situation, of course, and has nothing to do with the OP, I know. 

 

[mommytobees]

Two weeks ago I was grocery shopping at Walmart with a full grocery area. The entire time I was there a little girl, maybe about 7 (?) was screaming. SCREAMING.

 

...

My dad got really heated up and said, "Well they should tell us! I have a right to know if your kid is screaming because he has autism!" I said, "But that's his private medical information and that parent is working harder as a parent than you ever had to, so why should that parent walk around telling every stranger in the store what's going on?"

 

My dad just maintained that he had a "right to know" why that kid was screaming. I got tired of arguing and said, "I don't think you'll ever get what you want, but I suppose you have the right to think you do."

 

....

 

Before I had kids, I remember rolling my eyes and making disgusted noises to my husband when we were in stores with kids screaming. (Not where the parents could hear--just to dh.) I am ashamed of that behavior now. But some people just don't get kids at all. The woman on the plane was probably one of them, and also probably didn't really believe about the medical dx.

 

First, your iPad capitalizes the first word after "said" because most often it is "...said George." a noun, frequently a proper noun. 

 

Second, I think this whole topic comes down to three issues: entitlement, personal control, and lack of compassion.

 

Your dad feels entitled to understand why this child was screaming. 

The lady on the airplane felt entitled to have a quiet flight.

 

I am one of those people who _want_ to know why...I love getting people's stories. However, I have no expectation to have my curiosity indulged.

 

Personal control: that child in the supermarket (we're guessing) does not have the ability to control herself. Gramma has to do her food shopping. We no longer lock up the disabled into locked institutions, consequently, they will occasionally disrupt our lives.

 

However, that woman on the plan, your father, you, me, my kids, the other men at the store are ALL capable of controlling themselves. I'm guessing your dad held his judgement to himself in the store (you didn't mention him as yelling at the kid). He held himself under control and left it to judging the grandmother and the ill-mannered child.

 

As for lack of empathy... I'm just going to leave that at that.

 

 

Kris

[Garga]

Garga, I've been that parent in a store who has entirely ignored my DD having a meltdown while I stayed calm and continued to shop, with 2 other kids walking alongside of me just ignoring their sister. For me, it was because I knew that any words out of my mouth would turn those screams into trying to hit, throw groceries, or even climbing out of the cart and running away. I even knew that if I chose to just leave the store and do my shopping later did would know to and lash out because she is very aware of her meltdowns and doesn't like them acknowledged. People have stared disapprovingly. Thankfully no one has ever spoken to her negatively.

 

She no longer has meltdowns like that in public and only rarely has them in private. I'm sure that grandma knew what she was doing when she continued with her normal day. Shame on those men for saying anything.

 

Yes, barring a dx, I think that was what was going on. Any reaction from Gma, and Little Girl would have ratcheted it up. Removing Little Girl would have taught Little Girl that throwing fits makes boring grocery shopping end. I think Gma was doing exactly what she should have been doing.

 

I agree that the men were obnoxious. All I could think was, "You're a man in your 60s. Seriously, how much actual parenting have you ever done in your life?" The cynical side of me figures their wives did all the actual work of parenting and they have no clue about anything to do with kids.

[ktgrok]

Yeah, the whole "spoiled kids these days" thing when people hear a kid having a meltdown in the store drives me nuts. Trust me, if I was spoiling them they wouldn't be crying ,they would have whatever they wanted!!!! (and sometimes I do, lol)

[QueenCat]

I have to say that I've flown many miles, and I don't recall ever having anyone act mean to a person with special needs.  I don't recall anyone being nasty to the parent of a loud child.  And I've heard lots of loud children.  :p  So I guess my point is, this isn't a widespread societal problem.  :)

 

I agree. It wouldn't make the news or social media in a viral way if it was so commonplace.

[hornblower]

Um. Well. I disagree with some of what's been posted because I personally don't think it's OK to leave any person in distress. I know these techniques are out there but I don't like them.... 

It's one thing if someone is doing their best to soothe & comfort & there's just apparently nothing working & for ex they're just trying to get through the last few minutes of a shopping trip & get out of the store.  But to just carry on while someone is in distress to teach them some lesson, or as part of a behavioral modification program is IMO unethical. 

obv lots disagree but I'm heavily into least intrusive, minimally aversive techniques for all behavior mod. 

[TranquilMind]

That doesn't change the responsibility of the individual. 

 

There is no excuse to verbally abuse a child or the parents of a child because their child is upset and throwing a fit.

 

Kris

 

I don't consider it "verbal abuse" to request that someone quiet their kid down. 

 

Sounds like a reasonable request to me, particularly if it went on and on. 

 

 

[Anne in CA]

There are some people who feel that if whatever experience they are having is not to their liking they need to make it worse. It may be that the screaming woman had mild undiagnosed autism herself. I have seen enough of these scenarios to know that it is entirely possible that the whole thing played out the way the mom says it did. There are plenty of people who never gain the mental flexibility to wait for a restaurant meal. If the food isn't there in five minutes they get nasty. I try to remember that they may not be neurotypical, or they may have had such a bad day, week, year, that they cannot be patient.

 

Also, to the poster who pointed out that some people don't want to see kids in public, this is soooo true. There are people who come in a restaurant and if they see kids they leave before being seated. Seen it dozens of times.

[JustEm]

Um. Well. I disagree with some of what's been posted because I personally don't think it's OK to leave any person in distress. I know these techniques are out there but I don't like them....

 

It's one thing if someone is doing their best to soothe & comfort & there's just apparently nothing working & for ex they're just trying to get through the last few minutes of a shopping trip & get out of the store. But to just carry on while someone is in distress to teach them some lesson, or as part of a behavioral modification program is IMO unethical.

 

obv lots disagree but I'm heavily into least intrusive, minimally aversive techniques for all behavior mod.

I can only speak about my DD but for her trying to comfort her before she comes to me for comfort causes her more distress and the issue to last longer. She is very much of the mentality that her meltdown be on her terms, anything else is a seen as a personal attack on her. Now I didn't learn this until after many attempts to comfort her, many talks with her while not having a meltdown, and therapy. One thing I don't ever do is leave her in a room alone unless she verbally asks for privacy, which she doesn't do during a meltdown.

[Mabelen]

Ok. This is a 3 hour flight from the island of Ibiza Spain to Manchester in northern England. I am with the mom that rudely demanding to shut the child up does not help. I may be biased because I once had to suffer an unbelievably rude Scotish woman who though it was an affront having to sit next to me and my infant. My child was playing quietly in her bassinet but this woman thought it was her right to rudely demand that I take the bassinet down, repeatedly, on a long haul flight. No dice, of course, but she really put a sour note to our flight. I may be further biased because I also wonder whether alcohol was involved as often is the case with British adult travelers doing the Ibiza route.

[TravelingChris]

I don't like the facebook post.  I would never think to post a picture of someone else without their permission unless maybe I had a picture of a burglar of my house or something else illegal like that which concerned me.  If I had a child who had meltdowns in public, I would endevour to try to minimize whatever triggers cause that.  I would be much more understanding if the parents didn't know that a plane flight would cause no stop tantruming and then didn't subject everyone else to such behavior.  But I take plane flights expecting to be miserable.  Overall, the majority of plane flights I have had were tolerable.  I would have probably asked for a change of seats if that was available.

 

But I think if I had a child with such severe issues with behavior and health, I would probably vacation by car to make my own child more comfortable. I don't think it is such a good thing for the child to be having a breakdown as this child ended up going to the hospital.  

[MistyMountain]

Ignoring a child screaming is not a bad way to handle the situation. Leaving may be what the child wants and will show them if they scream they get their way. Special needs or not kids act up. Some are harder then others. Some errands must be done because that adult is the only one that can do them. Sometimes you cannot control a child's reaction. I think acting calm is a good way to manage the situation. What is yelling at a child in a meltdown going to do?

[kitten18]

I don't consider it "verbal abuse" to request that someone quiet their kid down.

 

Sounds like a reasonable request to me, particularly if it went on and on.

Do you seriously think that IF they had the ability to ease the child's distress (make their kid quiet down) that they wouldn't?

[Garga]

Ignoring a child screaming is not a bad way to handle the situation. Leaving may be what the child wants and will show them if they scream they get their way. Special needs or not kids act up. Some are harder then others. Some errands must be done because that adult is the only one that can do them. Sometimes you cannot control a child's reaction. I think acting calm is a good way to manage the situation. What is yelling at a child in a meltdown going to do?

Good question! I think it's more about the other person just wanting to pour disapproval on the parent/guardian than actually thinking it will work. They just want to 'have their say.' As if the child will hear someone call them a name or yell at them and suddenly think, "Gee, I will corral my emotions now. Thank you ever so much for pointing out my rudeness." Snort.

 

I was telling a friend who is in her 60s and never had kids what is the hard part of parenting (she's a sweet woman and loves kids.). I told her it's that you're not always sure if the behavior is because they're being stinkers or because they honestly are too immature to act the right way.

 

So, do you step in and punish or redirect or lecture or whatever is your style because they are being stinkers? Or do you let it go until later because they're too little to be able to handle it?

 

Now, tantrums are their own thing, but so much of parenting is just feeling your way in a dark room trying to figure out when to be firm, when to be soft, when to draw a time, and when to fight another day.

 

People jumping in to pour spite or vent their irritation on the parent doesn't help. I guess they figure the parent is being lazy and need a comeuppance or something. Or they don't understand that children don't come fully mature and that yelling at them won't make them snap out of their immaturity.

 

Honestly, I'm just kind of tired of people lately. :).

[TranquilMind]

Do you seriously think that IF they had the ability to ease the child's distress (make their kid quiet down) that they wouldn't?

 

These days, you never really know. We've all been in situations with parents who were completely oblivious to their child making all kinds of noise and disturbing others.    I've watched them in meetings while their kids were literally running around and shrieking. They were so used to ignoring it that they didn't even hear it anymore. 

 

So that's a big maybe on that one. 

 

[mommytobees]

I don't consider it "verbal abuse" to request that someone quiet their kid down. 

 

Sounds like a reasonable request to me, particularly if it went on and on. 

 

Depends, is that request at a normal volume or is it yelling?

 

Kris

[kitten18]

These days, you never really know. We've all been in situations with parents who were completely oblivious to their child making all kinds of noise and disturbing others. I've watched them in meetings while their kids were literally running around and shrieking. They were so used to ignoring it that they didn't even hear it anymore.

 

So that's a big maybe on that one.

 

But we're talking about a family that is trapped on an airplane with a child in distress. I can't imagine that there is anyone on that plane that is more anxious than the parents to get the child calmed down.