Nurses- I have questions (about school/degrees)

[sassenach]

I'm going back to school!

 

How big of a deal is it to have a BSN vs RN? There are a few very good RN programs around here, but entrance is all lottery. They have excellent reputations, with high NCLEX pass and employment rates. I'm also within commute distance of 2 state universities with BSN programs and CC transfer agreements. They also have 1 year RN to BSN programs.

 

The local nurses I've talked to don't think having the BSN is a huge deal when it comes to employment around here. To me, it seems like a BSN has to be a plus, right?

 

I'm mulling over the possible paths.

 

I could do general ed at the CC and go straight to a BSN program. Total cost 20k

Just RN at CC (assuming I can actually get into the program). 8k

RN then BSN. Total cost 16k, plus an additional year.

 

Thankfully these decisions are a ways off, but it would effect which gen ed classes a take. I'd love input (especially from any California peeps).

Edited June 27, 2016 by Sassenach

[mysticmomma]

There is a push to have 80% of nurses have a BSN or higher by 2020. In order to have magnet status, most hospitals are requiring you to get it within 2-5 years.

[FaithManor]

In my area, RN programs are still popular and hiring is not an issue. What is an issue is that nursing has become so much more complex and technical than it was say 20 years ago that promotions are not available without the BSRN, and many of the better hospitals will only hire the RN if eh or she agrees to complete the BSRN within a certain time period. It has simply been pushed up a notch. Practical nurses around here can't get a job except in nursing homes and doing home health care. Doctor's offices and hospital jobs, urgent cares, imaging clinics that must have nurses on staff, etc., these are not open to practical nurses, and while open to RN's, the nurse manager is always a BSRN.

 

I am not certain about the hiring climate in California. Hopefully someone will chime in with direct knowledge.

 

I think to some degree it also depends on what your end goals for your career are. If you see yourself wanting so specialize, or wanting to manage other nurses, or working in a research hospital, something like that, you'll want your BSRN. If working a non research facility, the county hospital, for a general practitioner is what you would like, the RN will probably be fine. Specialties are the blingers. At my dad's oncology center, every single nurse is a BSRN. Every one. I can see why. The sheer amount of pharmaceutical and technical knowledge they need on top of patient education is simply more than what can be covered in the RN program.

[mysticmomma]

I would say do the Rn and then the 1 year bridge unless you don't have the prereqs to the program or your sciences have expired (5-10 years or never for some programs). The 4 year BSN often involves the lower level prereqs and you may find yourself out of place academically.

[Twigs]

You could go to community college for RN, then get a job with tuition reimbursement to finish out the BSRN.

 

Best wishes.

 

 

ETA: don't take your science courses in accelerated sessions (i.e. don't try to take chemistry or A&P in a 6 week summer semester - I tutor those classes and my students are dropping quickly!)

 

 

ETA: a good intro for health professions is a medical terminology course. If not required by the degree plan, you can get  a textbook (you really want a workbook) like The Language of Medicine and work through it. I picked up an older edition a few years ago for about $35-40; if you decide you want to do that, you won't have to pay full price. I've also seen them at Half-Price Books. Not only does it cover medical word parts (Latin, Greek, etc.), it is taught in the context of  A&P. This is one of the best preps for A&P.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Twigs

[hornblower]

have a look at the allnurses forums. You'll get a really good sense there & can ask specific questions from people making the same decisions. 

http://allnurses.com/nursing-student/

Fwiw, in Canada, you cannot be an RN without the bachelor's degree. It's been like that for years now.  My perception is that this is going to be the new baseline internationally. Also, often it seems older nurses want to get away from bedside & into management & for that I think it will be very important to have that BSN. 

(not a nurse but mom to pre-nursing student :) ) 

Edited June 26, 2016 by hornblower

[maize]

If you do the RN and get a job, might your employer pay for the BSN upgrade program?

[Mrs_JWM]

I'm working through my prerequisites now - just A&P I + II to finish this year and then I'll start an ADN program at my local community college. I have a bachelor's in secondary English education, so I'm planning to do a one-year online RN-to-BSN program once I've finished my ADN program and worked for at least a year. I carefully planned which classes I took as pre-reqs in order to maximize my transfer credits. My friend runs the nurse residency program at the hospital where I plan to work and she strongly recommends the BSN. Also, if your employer will cover the cost of the additional classes required for the BSN, you'll be in great shape. Good luck! I'll look forward to following your progress here. 😃

 

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[Forget-Me-Not]

My mom is a BSN in CA. Her hospital no longer hires anything but BSNs.

[arnold]

Get the BSN.  I'm in nursing school right now, and here's how I did it.  I already have a bachelors degree so I completed the necessary prereques at CC then applied to an accelerated second degree program (at a university) where I will graduate with a BSN in 12 months.  I know that one of the major hospital groups in the area no longer want to hire RN's without BSN; and if they do hire you, you have to agree to get your BSN within 5 years - and no they don't pay for it.

 

Also, you might know this but ALL nursing programs are really competitive to get into; most go strictly on GPA, so a 4.0 GPA is almost necessary.

[sassenach]

Thanks for all of the feedback. There seems to be a consensus that the BSN is the way to go.

 

I have YEARS of prerequisites ahead of me. I took 1 semester of college, 19 years ago. There's a lot of ground to cover. I'm pretty pleased with my placement tests. I only need to take 1 level of math (intermediate algebra) and I placed as high as possible in English, which leaves 1 class to complete. 

 

What I've heard about local hospitals as far as paying for the BSN goes, is that they do throw a little something in, but it's nominal. I think my friend said it was $1000. I'm not counting on anyone else paying for it. 

 

 

 

[Michelle My Bell]

I am in nursing school right now. I actually started school in 2013 unsure what I wanted to do and took a bunch of classes that ended up helping me along. I have finished all my pre-req's and have 5 semester left for my RN Associates degree. Once I pass the NCLEX, my plan is to get a job and start right back to school online to finish my bachelors in nursing. I haven't decided if I will go on for my masters yet. I am strongly leaning towards Ohio University for my bachelors. I have all the pre-req's done for that as well and will only need to complete the nursing courses. https://www.ohio.edu/nursing/RNtoBSN/program.htm#.V3BmKJMrJR1 

 

My main reason for getting a bachelors is I want more options than just standard nursing, such as management. 

[magnificent_baby]

(RN for almost 20 years here, and just graduated with an MSN/Family NP degree)

 

I'm in the midwest and nearly every hospital around here requires a BSN. An ADN may be okay in some settings, but those are rare around here. Even clinics hire mainly Medical Assistants, with the RN being the manager. My sister with nearly 30 years of nursing experience will be losing her hospital job in the next few years because she is not interested in going back for a BSN degree at her age, sad because they will lose a fantastic nurse but that's the way it's moving (finally after decades of pushing for BSN as entry level). 

 

I think it's perfectly fine to get the ADN degree, but do plan on the BSN at some point shortly thereafter. Around here the community colleges are super competitive with long wait lists. Not so much with the private colleges. Many programs require you to have a CNA certification with some experience as well, so you can start there while you are waiting/deciding. You can also job search online and get a feel for what entry level degree employers desire. 

 

Good luck!

[Supertechmom]

My area is still wide open for ADN nurses.   However, the push is strong for BSN.  And any position above floor nurse requires it.   Most go the ADN at community college and then complete their BSN on the job.  every employer around here has  very generous tuition  reimbursement rates.   

[kewb]

My niece just graduated with her bsn because that is the way it is going in our area and ultimately she wants to be a nurse anesthetist.

[Crimson Wife]

Western Governor's has an online RN-to-BSN that may be more affordable than $16k. http://www.wgu.edu/online_health_professions_degrees/bachelor_science_nursing

 

The nursing program at the community college where I'm doing the speech & language pathology assistant certificate is VERY competitive. They give admissions preference to students who are enrolled in special programs like those for first generation college students, so if you qualify for any of those, definitely apply.

[sassenach]

16k is the total from beginning to end. The bridge portion is 8k.

 

The CC here has an algorithm that takes into account your science grades, English grade, and overall gpa. If you get over 72%, you get into the lottery. From there it's pure chance.

[Mrs_JWM]

I read another forum about nursing, so it's very confusing as to which forum I'm reading here! 😂

 

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[MomtoCandJ]

I'm going for RN right now (associates). The hospital I will be working for (they hire new grads and are always hiring RNs because the pay isn't as good as the larger hospitals that are a couple hours away) pays for BSN so I will be going that route.

[SarahB82]

It depends on you. If you know you won't get complacent get the associates now and use tuition reimbursement to bridge. The difference in cost is huge when you add in the money you will make working while you get your BSN. If you know you can't juggle work, school and kids go straight through and get your BSN now.

[ocelotmom]

The "You have to go BSN from the start or it's not worth it" push really irritates me.

 

Many hospitals preferentially hire BSNs, and ADNs, especially new graduates, have a very hard time getting in the door. But hospitals are not the end-all and be-all of nursing. There are options outside the hospital that will happily hire ADN nurses.

 

So many people seem to think spending 1-2 years in a nursing home or something while finishing an RN to BSN program would be the end of the world. I don't get it. It's not the most glamorous specialty, but it's a paying job. I think there's a lot of elitism amongst the younger, single crowd who don't have concerns about providing for a family.

 

In any case, look at your goals, finances, program length (many BSN programs really aren't significantly longer when you take prerequisites into account), how hard it is to get into a program, and hiring patterns in your immediate geographic area. Don't worry about what people in other areas say, or about the opinions of people unwilling to look beyond the acute care setting.

 

Where I went to school (Sacramento area), general consensus was that you applied everywhere you could, and went where you got in first, because nursing programs were soooooo competitive that focusing on one particular program wasn't realistic. There were like 2 BSN programs and 50 kazillion ADN programs... so most people ended up going with ADN out of sheer probability.

 

I got into an ADN program first, because I could apply for it a semester earlier (fewer prerequisites). It actually did end up having an impact on my career, because we moved to a totally different area, but I don't regret it.

 

For good students, programs with merit-based entrance criteria may be easier to get into. That's more common in BSN programs, but there are ADN programs out there that are competitive, too.

 

I should note that RN to BSN programs are *much* more flexible and manageable than an entry-level nursing program.  It's not nursing school all over again - they don't generally have a clinical requirement, and are designed for adults working full time.

 

 

I read another forum about nursing, so it's very confusing as to which forum I'm reading here! 😂

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I'm pretty sure someone could identify me on both forums from this post, even though I use totally separate usernames. This is apparently my rant of the day.

Edited June 30, 2016 by ocelotmom

[TechWife]

Here all new hires are BSN or an RN with a requirement to get the BSN within 3-5 years (depending on the employer). If the BSN isn't earned within that time frame, they loose their jobs. There are no management or research positions available for those without a BSN or MSN. Having only an RN is very limiting. I expect that within 5 years none of the hospitals will be hiring without a BSN unless there are some super stellar experiences and references. Not long after that, I wouldn't be surprised if an MSN will be required for all management positions, although I haven't seen anything to that effect. I know several clinicians who are managers who have gone back to school to get heir MPH on top of their BSN, MSN, MSW and even MD degrees. I don't know if that's going to become the new norm, but an MHA is quickly becoming the norm for middle/upper non-clinical managers. 

 

[Stratford]

I think a lot depends on your location.  Our hospital hires many ADN nurses because, where we live, the vast majority of programs are at the CCs.  We have one local university (very small) and a larger one further away that provide the majority of our BSN nurses.  There are far more online programs offering an RN to BSN than BSN program available locally.  Our hospital is encouraging RNs to get their BSN and still do tuition reimbursement (100% for full-time, 50% for part-time, work commitment required.)  It is, so far, not mandatory.  I've noticed a bigger push toward having masters degrees for all nursing management positions.  

 

 

[gingersmom]

Our community college stopped offering nursing as an option years ago.

 

My daughter is enrolled in a 4 year nursing program.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Thanks for all of the feedback. There seems to be a consensus that the BSN is the way to go.

 

I have YEARS of prerequisites ahead of me. I took 1 semester of college, 19 years ago. There's a lot of ground to cover. I'm pretty pleased with my placement tests. I only need to take 1 level of math (intermediate algebra) and I placed as high as possible in English, which leaves 1 class to complete. 

 

What I've heard about local hospitals as far as paying for the BSN goes, is that they do throw a little something in, but it's nominal. I think my friend said it was $1000. I'm not counting on anyone else paying for it. 

If the local hospital will not pay for BSN, then definitely go straight for BSN and better yet if you really want lots of options go for BSN and Nurse Practitioner of some sort straight away. If you want administration look do research on what degrees these people have after nursing.

[goldberry]

We did extensive research on this, since DD was recently considering this option.  BSN is 100% the way to go in our area.  But yes, you can do the RN to BSN option if that suits you better.

[Katy]

In the areas I've worked if you just have an RN and aren't working towards a BSN, you'll likely be stuck in a nursing home.

 

If there isn't a waiting list to get an RN at a community college, go there for the cheaper degree, then transfer for your BSN.

 

If there is a waiting list (sometimes it's up to 3 years!), then go for the BSN to start because of the opportunity cost of not working for the waiting period.

 

BSN's get promoted into management of other nurses, to go further than that you need a master's.  To work in other fields, like insurance or as a patient educator or teaching nursing you generally need a BSN. 

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I think a lot depends on your location.  Our hospital hires many ADN nurses because, where we live, the vast majority of programs are at the CCs.  We have one local university (very small) and a larger one further away that provide the majority of our BSN nurses.  There are far more online programs offering an RN to BSN than BSN program available locally.  Our hospital is encouraging RNs to get their BSN and still do tuition reimbursement (100% for full-time, 50% for part-time, work commitment required.)  It is, so far, not mandatory.  I've noticed a bigger push toward having masters degrees for all nursing management positions.  

If your hospitals offered good tuition reimbursement and they hire ADNs I would go cheaper route and then immediately go for BSN with the tuition reimbursement.

[TechWife]

If your hospitals offered good tuition reimbursement and they hire ADNs I would go cheaper route and then immediately go for BSN with the tuition reimbursement.

Be careful with this, though. Hospitals that currently offer tuition reimbursement will eventually be dropping those programs because they will stop hiring associate degree RN's altogether. Don't count on the availability of RN to BSN tuition reimbursement.

[sassenach]

Here's an update on my plan:

 

To transfer to the 4-year college/BSN route, I will need additional classes that won't be required for entry into the CC/RN program. What I'm thinking is that I will get ready to apply for the CC/RN program. If I don't get in via lottery, I will finish up the transfer prerequisites and then apply to the 4-year/BSN school. If I do get in to the RN program, I will go through that, then do the 1-year BSN bridge.

 

Even though the bridge path takes an extra year, it's cheaper and it's in my county. I would rather do clinicals close to home. The program also has the highest percentage NCLEX pass rate of all of the available programs.

[Annie Elle]

I have a BSN. In my area though, there doesn't seem to be a preference for BSN vs ADN. BSN is great if you want to move up the education ladder but I haven't seen any ADN lose their jobs because they don't have a bachelor's degree. Some of the best RNs I know are ADNs. In my almost 20 years of nursing, it is my experience that there is no way to tell the difference between a BSN vs ADN. We both have an RN behind our names and our tasks are the same. I also know many ADNs in management positions.

 

I would encourage you to contact nurses in your area and find out the hiring climate. Nursing is not as much in demand as it used to be and new grads are having a hard time finding jobs. The cost for a BSN is outrageous and it would be horrible to go through all the stress of nursing school and then not have a job at the end.

 

I also wanted to say that I LOVE nursing and I LOVE my job. It is such a huge privilege to be so intimately involved in people's lives and to assist them and their families through a very difficult time. But nursing school is full time and the costs on the personal lives of nursing students is great. It is difficult to get into nursing school and to stay in nursing school. And then once out of school, it takes about a year or more to really feel comfortable as a nurse. I don't say these things to discourage you, but to be realistic of the costs both personal and financial. Health care is truly becoming a dog eat dog world and nurses are especially feeling the squeeze.

[SarahB82]

Here's an update on my plan:

 

To transfer to the 4-year college/BSN route, I will need additional classes that won't be required for entry into the CC/RN program. What I'm thinking is that I will get ready to apply for the CC/RN program. If I don't get in via lottery, I will finish up the transfer prerequisites and then apply to the 4-year/BSN school. If I do get in to the RN program, I will go through that, then do the 1-year BSN bridge.

 

Even though the bridge path takes an extra year, it's cheaper and it's in my county. I would rather do clinicals close to home. The program also has the highest percentage NCLEX pass rate of all of the available programs.

I think that is your best option. And the requirements for a BSN vary widely across the country. I know a lot of nurses in management with an ADN. We have 4 major hospitals here and every one of them will hire an ADN. All of them offer tuition reimbursement.

[TechWife]

I would encourage you to contact nurses in your area and find out the hiring climate. Nursing is not as much in demand as it used to be and new grads are having a hard time finding jobs. The cost for a BSN is outrageous and it would be horrible to go through all the stress of nursing school and then not have a job at the end.

 

 

 

This is highly dependent upon geographical area. In my area, there is a shortage of RN's. 

[Liz CA]

Here in CA it seems nurses are in demand. SIL had an RN, recently completed her BSN (probably via bridge program but not sure). She had worked her way to DON at a special care facility but wanted the added flexibility with the BSN.

 

I have worked with a number of LVNs in my field (substance abuse) and they seem rarely be looking for a job for long. Several add a few per diem shifts here and there and seem to have no problem finding opportunities. However, I don't think you are going to get into hospitals with an LVN, however.

[G5052]

Be careful with this, though. Hospitals that currently offer tuition reimbursement will eventually be dropping those programs because they will stop hiring associate degree RN's altogether. Don't count on the availability of RN to BSN tuition reimbursement.

 

Yes, locally they either are restricting it to people with a certain number of years of service, or they aren't offering it at all.

 

In my area, they'll hire an RN if they have a lot of experience, but they have to get a BSN on their own dime by 2020. 

 

One of my friends is a former nurse executive at a large teaching hospital. When her children were small, she was a nursing professor. She is in her 70's, but still does some PRN work as a lactation consultant. And in our area, she ALWAYS recommends going straight to the BSN if finances allow.

 

One of DD's buds is in a high school vocational program that will give her an LPN, but there are significant financial challenges there. Hopefully she can further her education once she is working.