5 credit hour courses (college)

[LisaKinVA]

I realize I'm getting to be an old fogey.

 

When I attended college, there were very few 4 hour courses, and even fewer 5 hour courses (usually a practicum, or directed research -- I know I had one 6 hour course, which was directed research).

 

But now, these seem to be everywhere.

 

Our foreign language courses were 3 credit hours...not four or five

My TVR (television/radio) course was 3 credit hours...not four or five

My Speech & Diction course was 3 credit hours...not four or five

 

These courses all had required components to be done in the language lab (usually homework/practice)

 

When looking at what is covered the the new "4" hour course vs my 3 hour course, the content is essentially identical.  So, I can only imagine that these 4-5 hour courses are really a way to increase the cost of the course -- while the actual material and outside work remains essentially the same?  

 

This isn't like my college's biology course which was a 3 hour course, plus a separate 2 hour lab, which was merged into a 5 hour Biology course.  

 

Looking at some of the courses and credit hours, it just looks like another way to increase college expenses -- but you get "extra credit" for homework.

[regentrude]

I don't imagine a college allocates resources in the form of instructor manpower and rooms to a course if they do not deem it necessary for the course to actually have that many hours of instruction.

[Harriet Vane]

I have not looked at courses, though I will be shortly with dd.

 

Just wanted to say that my foreign language courses were always four-hour courses.

 

Most of my other courses were 3-hour courses. I never had anything less than that.

[G5052]

Some of it is actually pressure from the accrediting agencies -- if students are spending X hours in classes, tutorials, labs, etc. they should get a certain amount of credits.

 

Some of the freshman classes at my undergraduate school 30+ years ago were 4 hours; calculus, physics, and my intro computer science classes were all 4 hours because they had three hours of class and an hour of tutorial weekly.

[Luckymama]

All of my undergrad courses (at one of the LACs that then and now shows up on the "top" lists) were 4 credits.

 

At older dd's university, classes are either 3 credits or 4 credits (the first 3 language classes in the sequence, writing-intensive classes, larger lectures w a separate tutorial; any science with a lab, regardless of how long the lab period actually is).

[regentrude]

At our college, pretty much the only 5 hour courses are calc 1 and 2.

Most introductory science courses are 4 credits. In physics, we actually give the student a free hour of instruction: they have two hours of lecture and two hours of recitation weekly plus two hours of lab every other week - so they get five hours weekly, but are charged only for four credit hours.

 

Intro foreign languages (first two semesters) are 4 credits as well.

All upper level courses are 3 hours.

Edited June 7, 2016 by regentrude

[Dmmetler]

I was a music major as an undergrad, and we had the opposite-lots of classes that took 3-5 hours a week, but only were one credit classes. It made working other classes around that schedule (or working, if you had College Work Study or a part-time job off campus) hard.

 

The biggest problem I can see with a lot of 4 hour or 5 hour classes vs 3 hour ones is that if you only have three 5 hour classes, and end up struggling in a class, you can't withdraw without going below 12 hours, while if you have 5 3 hour classes, you have a little more flexibility, and four 5 hour classes would be an overload, which often isn't allowed.

 

As far as price goes, The big difference I see isn't hours of instruction per credit but that as an undergrad, the tuition fee for a full time student at my school was the same whether you took 12 or 18 credits. You only paid per credit if you took more than 18 or less than 12. So, financially, there was no reason not to try a class that sounded interesting. For example, I took dance classes all four years, usually at least 2 a semester (1 credit hour class, usually met 3x/week). At the college I've worked at, those would have been an expensive way to take dance!

Edited June 7, 2016 by dmmetler

[shawthorne44]

My theory is that it isn't based on money but on the idea that students need more hand-holding than in the past, so more class time.  

[kiana]

I would consider it unlikely that it is to increase tuition paid, but rather that it is to increase the number of students who pass the class without removing content from the class. Many students do not engage in material much outside of class time, and it is no longer acceptable to have high rates of non-completion even if it is due to students not working outside of class. So the university can either make the class easier or give more time so that the students can work in class under supervision. It kinda sucks for the kids who would have done well under the old system, but they are outnumbered by the ones who wouldn't. 

[frogger]

I would consider it unlikely that it is to increase tuition paid, but rather that it is to increase the number of students who pass the class without removing content from the class. Many students do not engage in material much outside of class time, and it is no longer acceptable to have high rates of non-completion even if it is due to students not working outside of class. So the university can either make the class easier or give more time so that the students can work in class under supervision. It kinda sucks for the kids who would have done well under the old system, but they are outnumbered by the ones who wouldn't. 

 

 

So would this explain the 6 credit hour PreCalculus class at our local University? Perhaps a lot of Freshman who are taking Precalc need more help whereas the ones who jumped straight to Calc might not need that much help?

 

Seems fishy to me. But I have been out of it so long I have to relearn everything. 

[regentrude]

So would this explain the 6 credit hour PreCalculus class at our local University? Perhaps a lot of Freshman who are taking Precalc need more help whereas the ones who jumped straight to Calc might not need that much help?

 

Seems fishy to me. But I have been out of it so long I have to relearn everything. 

 

That would be a good explanation - students who are testing into precalculus are not strong math students; the strong students would have taken precalc and possibly calc at high school and place accordingly.

[kiana]

So would this explain the 6 credit hour PreCalculus class at our local University? Perhaps a lot of Freshman who are taking Precalc need more help whereas the ones who jumped straight to Calc might not need that much help?

 

Seems fishy to me. But I have been out of it so long I have to relearn everything. 

 

Indeed. Also precalculus is a class that is usually taken by students who are going to take calculus and/or algebra-based physics, whereas college algebra is frequently taken by everyone. Institutions are therefore under a lot of pressure to increase passing rates in college algebra, and also a lot of pressure to accept students into college algebra regardless of placement scores, which frequently causes reductions in content covered. This forces more content into precalculus in order to cover sufficient material to have students actually prepared for calculus. Some other places have split precalculus into two three-credit classes (pre-calculus algebra and pre-calculus trigonometry), both of which are required to proceed to calculus.

This isn't like my college's biology course which was a 3 hour course, plus a separate 2 hour lab, which was merged into a 5 hour Biology course.  

 

Looking at some of the courses and credit hours, it just looks like another way to increase college expenses 

 

Maybe this is more a result of "every college does things differently", rather than "the kids these days".  When I rode my dinosaur to college, there were lots of five credit classes, including most of the calculus sequence, many of the lab sciences, and the intro to foreign languages.  A quick check now shows this is still true.

 

Given that some colleges are on a semester calendar, some on a trimester, some on quarters, and all the other difference between colleges, I think it is hard to generalize across colleges and universities.

 

Also, as long as a student needs 120 total credits to graduate, I don't think it changes the student's expenses if the 120 credits come from 60 two credit classes or 20 six credit classes.

[Matryoshka]

Indeed. Also precalculus is a class that is usually taken by students who are going to take calculus and/or algebra-based physics, whereas college algebra is frequently taken by everyone. Institutions are therefore under a lot of pressure to increase passing rates in college algebra, and also a lot of pressure to accept students into college algebra regardless of placement scores, which frequently causes reductions in content covered. This forces more content into precalculus in order to cover sufficient material to have students actually prepared for calculus. Some other places have split precalculus into two three-credit classes (pre-calculus algebra and pre-calculus trigonometry), both of which are required to proceed to calculus.

 

Our CC has that, kinda.  On the Engineering/Science math track you can take a semester of Trig (3cr) and then a semester of Precalclus (which must be technically the College Algebra portion?) for 4cr, OR take a one-semester Accelerated Precalclus/Trig that's 5cr.

[hornblower]

In my area it only really becomes an issue if you need to transfer & your 5 credit courses transfer only as a 3. 

At dd's school there are two courses that are 5 credits each but they transfer to the uni at 3 each....unless you transfer after earning your associate's. Then they'll give you 60 credits total; for these courses you'd get 2 specific course credits + 4 credits as unassigned science credit.  If you transfer early, you lose those 4 credits. 

[EKS]

Keep in mind that schools on the quarter system tend to have 5 credit classes as the default.  A 5 quarter credit class translates to a 3 semester credit class.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I'm finding the opposite.  When I was in college, 5-credit hour classes were very common.  Most of my math classes were 5 credit hours (semester basis.)  Many of my foreign language classes were 5 hour.  Those classes met 5 days a week and you had at least an hour of homework a day for that class, if not two.  These days, ds had mostly 3 and 4 credit hour classes (semester.)  The local LAC has mostly 3 credit hour classes (except for lab courses which were usually 1/2 to 3/4 credit hours more.)  This is on a trimester schedule.  Once year (3 quarters) of calculus about equaled a full year at a semester-based school.  K's school is also on a trimester basis and the credit hours per class are much higher.  But, the amount of material covered is also much higher as well.  We compared Physics classes and Calculus classes.  2 trimesters of Physics at K's school equaled 3 trimesters at the local LAC.

[goldberry]

DD's foreign language class (5 credits) was ASL and required a certain amount of outside hours spent in the ASL lab practicing.  There was always an actual deaf person in the ASL lab as well.  I had never heard of a foreign language lab before.

 

She had a 4 hour College Algebra class at the same time, and actually did spend more time on the ASL.

[Kareni]

Maybe this is more a result of "every college does things differently", rather than "the kids these days".  When I rode my dinosaur to college, there were lots of five credit classes, including most of the calculus sequence, many of the lab sciences, and the intro to foreign languages.  A quick check now shows this is still true.

 

My dinosaur clearly took me to the same college as all you mentioned above was also true for me.  In contrast, at my daughter's college all classes were one unit classes be they literature, foreign language, or lab science classes.  Students were permitted to take four classes each semester.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[LisaKinVA]

In the college I'm referring to, it's the same one. The 1990 vs. 2016. Some of the courses and even professors are the same.

 

Yes, I am aware that all colleges are different. It could also be this college bringing its coursework and credits more in line with others.

[elegantlion]

At my school, the only classes that I'm finding are over 3 are science and math. All general studies lab sciences are 4, upper maths can be 5 (with 5 hours of class time a week). Foreign language are only 3. We're on a semester schedule. 

 

 

[MarkT]

I realize I'm getting to be an old fogey.

 

When I attended college, there were very few 4 hour courses, and even fewer 5 hour courses (usually a practicum, or directed research -- I know I had one 6 hour course, which was directed research).

 

When looking at what is covered the the new "4" hour course vs my 3 hour course, the content is essentially identical.  So, I can only imagine that these 4-5 hour courses are really a way to increase the cost of the course -- while the actual material and outside work remains essentially the same?  

 

 

I did not read the replies yet but our local CC has 4 and 5 hour classes that transfer to 3 hour classes at the U. 

Maybe the CC students just need more class time or the college is trying to squeeze out more tuition from the students (still cheaper than the U).

(all semester schools)

Edited June 10, 2016 by MarkT

[Haiku]

I graduated from college more than two decades ago. My community college courses were all three hours (except for lab science, which was 4), but my university courses were a mix of four and five hours. All my language and math courses were five hours. My lab sciences were five hours. Everything else was four hours. My schools were on quarters.

 

My sister, who is the same age I am and graduated the same year, went to a semester school. The majority of her courses were three hours.

 

My dad went to school in the 50's. His courses were all four and five hours, as well, and his university was on quarters.

 

I think that may be part of the difference. I remember thinking ti was weird that my sister had five classes and 15 hours and I had four classes and 18 hours.

Edited June 10, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator