Tell your boys to keep their "junk" in their pants

[JumpyTheFrog]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/the-criminalization-of-a-high-school-dare/481575/#article-comments

 

Summary: A high school football player decided to do a foolish prank and have part of his gentials sticking out of his uniform when a team photo was taken. Nobody at the school noticed until after the yearbook was published. Officials then called the police, who were close to charging him with 69 counts of indecent exposure (one for every player on the team).

 

 

 

 

One commenter pointed out that if people tried to streak today like they did decades ago, they'd end up with felony records and on the sex offender registry.

[Bluegoat]

Seems very over the top to me.  I guess mooning people would be out too.

 

I cannot for the life of me see what would be gained by charging him.

 

In the great scheme of things, the other students will probably think its a great thing to have in the yearbook, and in 20 years only the penis-guy will care, and he will be embarrassed.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by Bluegoat

[Guest]

Ankle monitor is a weird choice. They do know his penis is readily available whether they're tracking him or not, yes?

[Bluegoat]

Penis monitor then?

[JumpyTheFrog]

Keeping in mind that I don't remember if they thought about charging him with a felony...

 

I think we really need to reform what is considered a felony in this country. I hear more and more stories of people doing stuff that while wrong and/or illegal, should not destroy hope of future gainful employment. It seems like felonies should be restricted to violent crimes and crimes of high dollar amounts.

[Guest]

Keeping in mind that I don't remember if they thought about charging him with a felony...

 

I think we really need to reform what is considered a felony in this country. I hear more and more stories of people doing stuff that while wrong and/or illegal, should not destroy hope of future gainful employment. It seems like felonies should be restricted to violent crimes and crimes of high dollar amounts.

Aw but then the mega rich would cop a sad.

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-prison-industry-in-the-united-states-big-business-or-a-new-form-of-slavery/8289

 

You cant let common sense and human dignity stand in the wsybof dollars for ppl that already have a lot of dollars.

[madteaparty]

Read the latest New Yorker article on the sex offender registry and weep, weep.

[poppy]

So. This kid was not actually charged and is not on the sex offender registry . Sounds like a classic 'police scare idiot kid' to me. Not a new thing.

 

But yes. It is smart to tell boys to keep their junk in their pants.

Edited May 8, 2016 by poppy

[Professormom]

I am sorry, but am I the only one that was this...

 

:lol:

 

I know it is terrible. I really do. And I would be *absolutely mortified* if my guys did it. But, it just cracked me up because it is one of THOSE stories. The stories that we tell when we get older because it is good to feel like we were a little wild and crazy when we were young.

 

I actually struggle with this a bit because on the one hand I want our kids to do better than we did. But, on the other hand, Dh and I have a lot to laugh/cringe about. Not only does it make for good dinner parties, but it humbles us. We can't get all holier-than-thou on pretty much anyone. Plus, you hear about so many mean-spirited, hurtful, vicious, destructive things young people (gang wars, drug murders, etc.) do today. I guess I appreciate the lighter pranks more because of it.

 

We have a subdivision here with Pines in the name. It has a big sign on the hill by a freeway with each letter separate like the Hollywood sign. One year, some high school kids decided to scramble the letters a bit. :leaving:

 

I must be an awful person, because it still makes me giggle.

[Professormom]

So. This kid was not actually charged and is not on the sex offender registry . Sounds like a classic 'police scare idiot kid' to me. Not a new thing.

 

But yes. It is smart to tell boys to keep their junk in their pants.

 

And, for the record, I agree that they need to be told to keep the junk in the pants.

[Guest]

As a rule I'm not in favor of genital based humor, but I thought this was pretty funny too. Especially because no one noticed for so long :laugh: .

 

It just doesn't seem like a slippery slope kind of thing AT ALL to me. It was just this kid seeing if he could get away with something just slightly outrageous, and he was soooooo close, but so far from truly getting away with it lol.

[Valley Girl]

Well, I don't find it particularly funny, just incredibly stupid. That said, calling the police was completely over the top. If the school year hadn't ended, the school should have handled it. There absolutely should have been a significant consequence for such behavior, but it isn't a law enforcement issue.

 

According to the article, the photo wasn't just used in the yearbook. Even if it wasn't really noticeable, the fact is it had a wider audience as well. The kid needs to be made to realize that people in the community or even future employers may interpret this incident as a negative reflection on his judgment. That could affect his opportunities. (Who want someone representing their organization if that person might do something to embarrass them publicly? That kind of thing.) But again, I think calling in law enforcement was an overreaction.

 

Off to remind DS not to do stupid stuff ...

 

 

[Laurie4b]

So. This kid was not actually charged and is not on the sex offender registry . Sounds like a classic 'police scare idiot kid' to me. Not a new thing.

 

But yes. It is smart to tell boys to keep their junk in their pants.

 

I'm glad to read this because when I first read the news story, I thought it was totally over-the-top and a ridiculous thing to ruin a teen's life over. Yes he shouldn't have done it, but how many of us did not do something that was stupid in our youth? Neither the photographer nor the teacher who edited the year book noticed it. 

 

My guess is that one of the guys "in the know" said something and word got around and then...

 

Anyway, I'm glad that he got a sound warning, but didn't suffer lifelong consequences.

[happypamama]

ProfessorMom, DH and I are with you on that.  I think calling the police, talking felony, etc. is totally over the top.  It's certainly not something we would condone, but if it was a generally good kid, we'd probably look at our kid, be annoyed, and say, "Really, Kid?  Grow up.  Don't do stuff like that."  And then we'd attribute it to "kids do dumb stuff."  There's a reason we don't allow kids under 18 to make certain decisions.  We might not have done something like that, but certainly we all did stuff that we shouldn't have when we were younger.  I'm sure for some people, that's a slippery slope to truly poor behavior, but I suspect for the majority of kids, it's a dumb prank that deserves a "Hey, that's not how we behave; knock it off," and that's it.

 

(I'm also chuckling because good grief, it took them how long to notice it??)

[SparklyUnicorn]

Seems very over the top to me.  I guess mooning people would be out too.

 

I cannot for the life of me see what would be gained by charging him.

 

In the great scheme of things, the other students will probably think its a great thing to have in the yearbook, and in 20 years only the penis-guy will care, and he will be embarrassed.

 

Yep

 

Good grief....

 

Stupid sure, but criminal?  Nope.

[Entropymama]

Penis monitor then?

 

 

:lol:

 

We have such weird double standards in this country. Teens are handed out condoms because there's no stopping them from having sex, and really it's healthy and good for them to figure out what and who they like before they settle down, but they will also be permanently and horribly scarred if they catch a tiny glimpse of some guy's junk in a year book picture. 

 

Also why charge the rest of the team? It sounds like nobody knew it was happening. 

[Professormom]

ProfessorMom, DH and I are with you on that. I think calling the police, talking felony, etc. is totally over the top. It's certainly not something we would condone, but if it was a generally good kid, we'd probably look at our kid, be annoyed, and say, "Really, Kid? Grow up. Don't do stuff like that." And then we'd attribute it to "kids do dumb stuff." There's a reason we don't allow kids under 18 to make certain decisions. We might not have done something like that, but certainly we all did stuff that we shouldn't have when we were younger. I'm sure for some people, that's a slippery slope to truly poor behavior, but I suspect for the majority of kids, it's a dumb prank that deserves a "Hey, that's not how we behave; knock it off," and that's it.

 

(I'm also chuckling because good grief, it took them how long to notice it??)

Exactly.

 

And yes, that was not the speediest discovery:-)

[Professormom]

:lol:

 

We have such weird double standards in this country. Teens are handed out condoms because there's no stopping them from having sex, and really it's healthy and good for them to figure out what and who they like before they settle down, but they will also be permanently and horribly scarred if they catch a tiny glimpse of some guy's junk in a year book picture.

 

Also why charge the rest of the team? It sounds like nobody knew it was happening.

I can't just like this. I love it. :-)

[happypamama]

:lol:

 

We have such weird double standards in this country. Teens are handed out condoms because there's no stopping them from having sex, and really it's healthy and good for them to figure out what and who they like before they settle down, but they will also be permanently and horribly scarred if they catch a tiny glimpse of some guy's junk in a year book picture. 

 

Also why charge the rest of the team? It sounds like nobody knew it was happening. 

I thought it meant they were charging HIM with all those counts of indecent exposure, since he had technically exposed himself to all of his teammates.

[Danestress]

So. This kid was not actually charged and is not on the sex offender registry . Sounds like a classic 'police scare idiot kid' to me. Not a new thing.

 

But yes. It is smart to tell boys to keep their junk in their pants.

He was arrested and charged. They later dropped the charges, but there is still a serious impact on him. For one thing, he will probably never be able to get his mugshot off the internet, and information about the charges with it.

[mamiof5]

Glad he didn't get charged after all, but also glad he got a good scare.

[Bluegoat]

I don't know - I actually find it disturbing that he anyone was even thinking about charging him because it suggests they were thinking of this in terms of some kind of sexually motivated thing.

 

I'm sorry, streaking, or mooning someone, or this, is not sexual really sexually motivated, and it doesn't have that effect either.  It is a prank.

 

I mean for goodness sake it is a penis, half the population has them, they are all very similar.

 

These kinds of incidents don't have the same kind of motivation as a flasher (who are often people who are ill and feel a compulsion, themselves, and are to be pittied.)  They are practical jokes.

 

Sometimes I think we are soon going to have to skirt our table legs so that people don't get their knickers in a twist.  Because you know, legs means there is something between them, and we wouldn't want people thinking abut that.

[poppy]

I don't know - I actually find it disturbing that he anyone was even thinking about charging him because it suggests they were thinking of this in terms of some kind of sexually motivated thing.

 

I'm sorry, streaking, or mooning someone, or this, is not sexual really sexually motivated, and it doesn't have that effect either.  It is a prank.

 

I mean for goodness sake it is a penis, half the population has them, they are all very similar.

 

These kinds of incidents don't have the same kind of motivation as a flasher (who are often people who are ill and feel a compulsion, themselves, and are to be pittied.)  They are practical jokes.

 

Sometimes I think we are soon going to have to skirt our table legs so that people don't get their knickers in a twist.  Because you know, legs means there is something between them, and we wouldn't want people thinking abut that.

 

I think it was somewhere between mooning and flashing. It was showing off the tip of his penis. (I am guessing tip?)

 

I was thinking about a post in the K-8 curriculum board where a woman said her daughter, who if I remember right was 12-13, was uncomfortable studying art history because seeing "butts" made her uncomfortable. Somehow in the course of conversation, someone suggested going with ancient art, perhaps the Greeks (!!) and I was like "nooooooooooooooo!"

 

His INTENT clearly wasn't to traumatize, but intent doesn't dictate was the effect will be. Especially given the age range in high school and this guy was 18? 

 

I don't think criminal charges were the right thing, but, I don't completely brush as "ha ha pranks don't matter" either.  At that age young men (and young women) should know better, for sure.

[Bluegoat]

I think it was somewhere between mooning and flashing. It was showing off the tip of his penis. (I am guessing tip?)

 

I was thinking about a post in the K-8 curriculum board where a woman said her daughter, who if I remember right was 12-13, was uncomfortable studying art history because seeing "butts" made her uncomfortable. Somehow in the course of conversation, someone suggested going with ancient art, perhaps the Greeks (!!) and I was like "nooooooooooooooo!"

 

His INTENT clearly wasn't to traumatize, but intent doesn't dictate was the effect will be. Especially given the age range in high school and this guy was 18? 

 

I don't think criminal charges were the right thing, but, I don't completely brush as "ha ha pranks don't matter" either.  At that age young men (and young women) should know better, for sure.

 

I think with something like this the idea is that it is meant to be a little rule breaking, a little rude.  So the kid who does it knows that it is inappropriate - that's the fun.

 

I'd have thought something like a detention was a more appropriate response.  Or being made to volunteer for the yearbook committee.

 

I am not so sympathetic about people being traumatized by nudity I guess though - in the art thread I would have just told my kids they had to get used to butts.  Were there deeply traumatized victims of streaking back in the day?  Maybe there were ladies fainting in the crowds?

[poppy]

I just want to gently point out the disparity between what's said in every thread about modesty for young woman vs this thread. Which reads to me as scorn for the idea that anyone should object to an exposed penis. So long as it was meant in good fun.

[school17777]

We have a subdivision here with Pines in the name. It has a big sign on the hill by a freeway with each letter separate like the Hollywood sign. One year, some high school kids decided to scramble the letters a bit. :leaving:

 

I must be an awful person, because it still makes me giggle.

 

Now I finally get it! I was wondering what would be so funny about "Spine".

[maize]

I just want to gently point out the disparity between what's said in every thread about modesty for young woman vs this thread. Which reads to me as scorn for the idea that anyone should object to an exposed penis. So long as it was meant in good fun.

 

This is an interesting point. Would the response be different if it were a female nipple that was exposed?

[EmilyGF]

I will go back and read the Atlantic article.

 

But quickly, these are football players. For goodness sake, they shower together in a locker room. They change in front of each other. Maybe the kid should repay the cost of new photos, or do community service equal to the cost. But come on...

 

Emily

[Critterfixer]

 

This is an interesting point. Would the response be different if it were a female nipple that was exposed?

 

I seem to remember something like this happening at a major sporting event some years ago. Seems to me the outcry was also kind of ridiculous.

[Haiku]

At that age young men (and young women) should know better, for sure.

 

Yeah. While I don't think the guy should be labeled a sex offender, I do get tired of young people who do incredibly stupid things being excused for just being young and stupid. If we let people be young and stupid, there's a good chance that they will be young and stupid.

 

If this were my son and he were still living under my control, he would be getting no help from me in dealing with it. You made your stupid bed, kid, now lie in it. You should have known better. Idiot.  <_<

 

ETA: And my oldest did some unfathomably stupid things as a teen, so I know of which I speak.

Edited May 9, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator

[Bluegoat]

I just want to gently point out the disparity between what's said in every thread about modesty for young woman vs this thread. Which reads to me as scorn for the idea that anyone should object to an exposed penis. So long as it was meant in good fun.

 

Really?  I don't think I've ever seen a thread which suggested that silly high school girls who flash their boobs for a joke should get charged. I would think people traumatized by joke-boobs, or art boobs, were also pretty unusual.

 

I think that most threads on modestly I've seen aren't really about that kind of incident though. 

 

What might be a difference between girl and boy streakers could be what other people choose to do with the images, which could be a reason for caution.

 

I would say that girl's clothing choices are generally taking place in a much different context than boys - boys clothes aren't usually sexualized from the time they are toddlers.  But - this incident isn't about clothing.

[Bluegoat]

I seem to remember something like this happening at a major sporting event some years ago. Seems to me the outcry was also kind of ridiculous.

 

Yes, it was foolish.  Although I think a fairly significant difference is that it was not meant to be a joke boob, it was meant to be a sexy money making publicity gaining, cynical boob, and it was very calculated.

[poppy]

A boob is not comparable to a penis. It just isn't.

[Liz CA]

Ankle monitor is a weird choice. They do know his penis is readily available whether they're tracking him or not, yes?

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:  The whole thing is so ridiculous. He thought it was funny in the moment but did not think ahead because in 10-20 years he won't be showing his kids his yearbook. Others will probably forever remember him as the idiot who thought this was "special."

[poppy]

Really? I don't think I've ever seen a thread which suggested that silly high school girls who flash their boobs for a joke should get charged. I would think people traumatized by joke-boobs, or art boobs, were also pretty unusual.

 

I think that most threads on modestly I've seen aren't really about that kind of incident though.

 

What might be a difference between girl and boy streakers could be what other people choose to do with the images, which could be a reason for caution.

 

I would say that girl's clothing choices are generally taking place in a much different context than boys - boys clothes aren't usually sexualized from the time they are toddlers. But - this incident isn't about clothing.

No one here said the boy should be charged, either. But there is a whole lot more angst or at least thoughtful debate about girls and their responsibilities regarding how they present their bodies . Not so with boys. Boys have junk. Boys pull pranks. Acting like seeing a boys junk might be upsetting is absurd (the 'fainting' remark). It is a double standard. Which- hey- that's the way of the world. Let's just be aware of our own part in perpetuating it.

[Liz CA]

I just want to gently point out the disparity between what's said in every thread about modesty for young woman vs this thread. Which reads to me as scorn for the idea that anyone should object to an exposed penis. So long as it was meant in good fun.

 

He may have thought it was fun but in the long run it was idiotic and embarrassing. I responded to the ankle monitor bit - I found that ridiculous.

 

[EmseB]

A boob is not comparable to a penis. It just isn't.

I thought I read a couple of posts up that you were comparing the guy's actions with female modesty? Pretty sure everyone knows a penis isn't a boob, but girls flashing their books for thrills is pretty comparable to what happened here, IMO.

[poppy]

The female anatomy equivalent of a penis is not a boob. You know that

 

I'd say a boob flash is similar to a mooning. Butts, boobs.... Everyone has 'em, some people have very attractive ones.

 

If a woman flashed her breasts to a 5 year old would that seems the same thing to you as an adult male showing his penis? How about a 13 year old?

 

Basically, one is R rated and the other is XXX.

Edited May 9, 2016 by poppy

[Murphy101]

He was arrested and charged. They later dropped the charges, but there is still a serious impact on him. For one thing, he will probably never be able to get his mugshot off the internet, and information about the charges with it.

I think he was a jerk who ruined everyone else's yearbook with his prank.

 

And cry me a river for the moron that doesn't comprehend that pictures are forever and global these days and will likely follow him around for decades.

 

He probably didn't think it would make it to the yearbook. And it shouldn't have bc apparently someone did shoddy photo editing. But that's the risk he took.

 

I'd be horrified if my son did that. We've had many talks over the years about how pictures and more can forever follow a person whether it is accurate or fair or not. And yeah, we've said to keep their privates private.

 

I don't think he should get prison, but I'd have no issues with them expelling him. Though it might be too late now if he already graduated.

[SparklyUnicorn]

The female anatomy equivalent of a penis is not a boob. You know that

 

I'd say a boob flash is similar to a mooning. Butts, boobs.... Everyone has 'em, some people have very attractive ones.

 

If a woman flashed her breasts to a 5 year old would that seems the same thing to you as an adult male showing his penis? How about a 13 year old?

 

Basically, one is R rated and the other is XXX.

 

Although why is that exactly?

 

I don't disagree that this is generally how a lot of people see it, but I just wonder why.  Most people know what this stuff looks like. 

 

Granted what he did was so freaking juvenile, but I'm not so sure it was criminal.  He probably embarrassed himself more than anyone else in the end. 

[Murphy101]

It is loosely related to female modesty.

 

If a gal flashed a breast or purposely spread her legs exposing she didn't have undies on, she would likely be called a slut, not a prankster.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Murphy101

[The Governess]

What if he had taken a picture of himself in a similar pose and texted it, or distributed it by hand, to everyone who ordered a yearbook? What if he walked up to a group of girls at school and exposed himself the same way he did in the picture? Should the consequences be different in these situations?

 

I don't have any answers in mind, just thinking out loud here....

[JumpyTheFrog]

In the comments on the original article, somebody said that rather than calling the police, the school should've made the kid pay to have the yearbooks redone without that photo. That sounds fair to me.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I dunno.  I'd be cracking up over this.  Thinking back to high school now in my 40s, I'd be thinking about that nutty guy who did that silly thing for the yearbook photo.

 

 

[maize]

The female anatomy equivalent of a penis is not a boob. You know that

 

I'd say a boob flash is similar to a mooning. Butts, boobs.... Everyone has 'em, some people have very attractive ones.

 

If a woman flashed her breasts to a 5 year old would that seems the same thing to you as an adult male showing his penis? How about a 13 year old?

 

Basically, one is R rated and the other is XXX.

 

I suggested a nipple because it's a sticky-out bit of anatomy associated with sexuality and could be exposed similarly to the way this kid exposed his penis. The female anatomical equivalent of a penis would be hard to expose for a group photo shoot in such a way that those around wouldn't catch on.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I suggested a nipple because it's a sticky-out bit of anatomy associated with sexuality and could be exposed similarly to the way this kid exposed his penis. The female anatomical equivalent of a penis would be hard to expose for a group photo shoot in such a way that those around wouldn't catch on.

 

I'm not mature I know...but really this made me LOL. 

[Haiku]

I dunno.  I'd be cracking up over this.  Thinking back to high school now in my 40s, I'd be thinking about that nutty guy who did that silly thing for the yearbook photo.

 

I'd be thinking back on that idiot who thought he was special enough that common decency didn't apply to him. I'd be wondering how far he got in life with an attitude like that and who he hurt along the way.

 

I went to school with a devil-may-care guy who always acted like a complete ass but did it with a huge smile on his face, so everyone thought he was sooo funny. I never understood why. I always thought he was complete idiot. He clearly thought he was better than everyone. He punched his hand through the driver's side window of his girlfriend's car while they were fighting, but he was "stressed about the big game," so it was downplayed. Last I heard, he was in jail for beating his wife and also had charges filed against him for physical (not sexual) abuse of a child on a sports team he coached.

 

I also lived on the same street as a blonde hottie who got away with all sorts of crap (including burglarizing and vandalizing a neighbor's home) because he was attractive and funny. He was just kicked off the police force because it was discovered he had been sending out racist and homophobic texts on police-owned cell phones.

 

Yet another "look at me, I'm so awesome" type from my school days was dismissed from coaching in our youth hockey organization after throwing a water bottle at a player and verbally abusing a ref ... during an 8U game. At his disciplinary hearing, he threatened the board (including my husband) because he is a cop and he thinks he can intimidate people.

 

I don't know whether or not the guy in this photo instance is one of those guys who thinks everything he does is so amusing, but I will say that those people scare me. They tend to devalue the impact of the things they do on other people and think they should be let off without consequences because they are funny, good-looking, or charming. And when people play into that, these people don't learn and can go on to do truly horrifying things.

Edited May 9, 2016 by TaraTheLiberator

[Murphy101]

In the comments on the original article, somebody said that rather than calling the police, the school should've made the kid pay to have the yearbooks redone without that photo. That sounds fair to me.

It's never the kid who pays for that stuff, it's his parents.

 

I wouldn't have paid for it if that was my kid bc they should pay the consequences for their stupidity, not their parents. None of mine would be able to afford to pay it on their own either.

 

I would be okay with the school deciding the publisher should reissue the yearbooks without that page though. Because seriously, that should have never made it to print. I have no idea what that would cost or who should pay it though.

[Murphy101]

I suggested a nipple because it's a sticky-out bit of anatomy associated with sexuality and could be exposed similarly to the way this kid exposed his penis. The female anatomical equivalent of a penis would be hard to expose for a group photo shoot in such a way that those around wouldn't catch on.

Idk that I agree. How the heck everyone missed a penis is beyond me, but whatever.

 

I suppose a female equavalent would be a girl purposely parting her skirt covered legs exposing she wasn't wearing undies.

 

Again, I bet the cops wouldn't be called, they'd just slut shame her into suicide.

 

I don't think any of it is okay or funny.

[HRAAB]

I'm not a mother to boys, so I might be totally missing something, but I don't find it humorous.  Now, I don't think they should have called the police and charged him, but I do think some consequences handed out by the school would be in order.  If this happened in some other situation, exposing himself in front of some female students, maybe my response would be different.  I'm sure I know what my dh's response would be; he would be furious.  I expect more from someone his age (17 - 18 yrs).  That doesn't mean I was perfect by a long shot, but that didn't stop my parents from expecting much more from me.  Yeah, teens do very stupid things.  I don't think something like this should follow him throughout his life, but I can't see laughing it off.  Somewhere between the two extremes.