Dropping like flies...why?

[IsabelC]

I do sometimes wish I could send the kids to school once they get to a certain age, but it just isn't an option for us. We don't have the wherewithal to choose a private or alternative school (only one of our kids could potentially get a scholarship, but even then we couldn't afford all the extra expenses); our only school option would be the local public high school, which is a very bad school. More than half the students drop out by the end of year 10, most of those who pass year 12 do not go on to further education, the standards are very low (last year it ranked 72nd out of 89 high schools), and the social problems are what you'd expect for a socio-economically disadvantaged area (59% of students in the bottom quartile). It's the sort of school that prompts people to say that any kind of home education experience short of severe neglect/abuse would be preferable. Some of the time I feel trapped by these circumstances, but the rest of the time I'm glad I don't have to seriously consider school any more - I can be settled in home schooling and concentrate on doing that as well as we can.

Edited January 5, 2016 by IsabelC

[nobeatenpath]

It's interesting to read people talk about going to middle or high school for social interaction (or the lengths you go to to make sure your kids are involved in all these fantastic activities). Our son has Aspergers and one thing he found super difficult about school was social interaction with kids his age every day. His current social activities split between time with kids roughly his age (4 year spread) and adults, and he is a much happier kid. That and having a lot of time alone at home. I know some people would argue we are not 'equipping him with skills for the real world' or some such, but I personally think a happy productive person who is gradually learning social interaction skills is a lot better than a person forced to interact with a group of peers because 'that is what's normal/everyone knows kids need to learn that stuff to get on in the real world' (whatever the real world is meant to be).

[nobeatenpath]

Oh and I do sporadically blog about what my middle schooler is doing, including lists of topics and lessons. Definitely not as many pretty pictures, but I can't well complain others are not doing it if I can't be bothered myself. I find that kind of blog a lot more useful in this stage of our learning.

[J-rap]

In our area, homeschoolers are pretty adamant about at least homeschooling through middle school.  They all hear middle school horror stories and don't want to send their kids there.  Then by high school, when those stories calm down a bit, there is a bit of an exodus.  I think in our area, it's in big part due to the fact that our town is small and the high school is very welcoming to home schoolers, even part-time ones.  Also, it has so many extra curricular activities and our town doesn't really offer much else outside of the high school.  So homeschoolers start out just being involved in the high school extra curriculars, and then discover that it's not really a bad environment!  A lot of them end up going full-time.

[SparklyUnicorn]

In our area, homeschoolers are pretty adamant about at least homeschooling through middle school.  They all hear middle school horror stories and don't want to send their kids there.  Then by high school, when those stories calm down a bit, there is a bit of an exodus.  I think in our area, it's in big part due to the fact that our town is small and the high school is very welcoming to home schoolers, even part-time ones.  Also, it has so many extra curricular activities and our town doesn't really offer much else outside of the high school.  So homeschoolers start out just being involved in the high school extra curriculars, and then discover that it's not really a bad environment!  A lot of them end up going full-time.

 

I wish they allowed part time here.  That would be so great.

[Alicia64]

OP: I agree with you. Mine are 12 and lots of people we know have stopped. Sad for us. I can guess, but I think there's different reasoning for every family. (I like Farrar's list.)

 

The main thing for us? Just sad.

 

My two are fairly easy going and nice to get along with, but there are just fewer and fewer 12 year olds.

 

Alley

[Roadrunner]

Our local high school has award winning robotics team along with ton of clubs and music opportunities. 11 AP classes...

Then I look at the cost of outsourcing to WTM Academy and PA Homeschoolers high school and not being able to provide any opportunities like robotics team and I wonder if it makes sense for us to push through homeschooling HS. I could see others making similar calculations. I don't know what we will do, honestly.

[MariaT]

I see the flies dropping at the beginning of high school, but I think a lot of it is economic. The Recession may officially be over, but there are deep pockets where it is still being felt-- dads losing their jobs, moms who need to go back to work for economic security and stability. Homeschooling starts to lose its romance.

 

We had a nice contingent of teens with my oldest DS, but they are all gone, and our group seemingly over the summer shifted to very, very young-- younger than 12. 16 yo DS has no interest in socializing with these families. There is less than a handful of girls who are about DD's age, so that is something to maybe build on. Distance is a problem, though.

 

Because of DE, though, I started to think of high school as two sections-- the hardest is the first two years, when they are too young for DE (here you have to be 16 and a junior) but really too old for mommy classes. Once they are in DE classes, it is such a relief for them to be in b&m, but with the flexibility of classes in their interests.

 

Maria

[Desert Strawberry]

I've noticed the big drop offs at 2nd grade, 4th-5th grade and 9th grade. We had a thriving homeschool community. I didn't see very many people send their kids to high school as part of the plan unless it was the one dual enrollment school. That seemed to be the only real option. Everyone else just kept going at home. 

 

I think that second grade is when it's not just fun stuff anymore. The novelty has worn off, and the kids aren't super gung ho about doing school anymore. It's also when you need to step it up and be more consistent. 

Same thing in 4th grade. When we were just new, some of the other moms warned me that 4-5th grade would be tough. That there is a big jump in workload. That some families choose a slower transition. Ambleside Online offers year 3.5 for kids who aren't ready for that transition yet. They also offer pre 7 for the same reason. Some kids just don't have the maturity to move ahead just yet. 
 

I didn't see HUGE shifts. Most people who started out homeschooling finished up homeschooling. But for those who did call it quits, that's when it seemed to happen. 

 

As far as social groups, I have found that there is a natural progression from homeschool-based activities to community based activities. Once kids hit middle school, they don't need the homeschool-centric stuff that they did during the younger years. And certainly by high school, they are fully integrated into the community at large. 

 

 

 

[Dmmetler]

We're facing this too. I set up interest groups for DD's interests each year, and this year, most of the kids are a year or more younger than she is. 6th grade seems to be where kids either go back to school, or start outsourcing heavily to a couple of day a week tutorial programs. Also, a lot of the kids who homeschool are seriously into sports or dance, and that provides their social connections. DD has interests, but they don't provide the social connection with kids her age.

 

DD has picked a school she wants to attend starting year after next. She has a friend who goes there and loves it. Only problem is that it's 3/4 of the way across the country. It does sound like a lovely fit for her, but probably not a viable option for our family. It's probably a sign of how bad the social situation is that DH and I are actually considering it.

[FairProspects]

We are part of this shift. I just enrolled my older ds in a lovely private school. Adolescence is tough and our social support was dropping. So many of his friends returned to school this year and I started to feel that short of driving all over I was not doing a good job providing enough specials for interests or social needs.

 

The job thing was a big part of it too. I've been at home or working very part time for 11 years. We never intended for me to be out of the workforce for that long and our longer term retirement goals depend on me heading back to work. I'm not the type who will be happy working full time from home, so that transition will require the kids to be in a school.

 

But yes, the social situation and adolescence, along with a no longer compliant older child, were the main drivers for the change. If he had wanted to stay at home and was more consistent with completing work independently, we could have made it work for a few more years.

Edited January 6, 2016 by FairProspects

[MinivanMom]

Well, we have really good public schools where we live. There's lots of politics and bureaucratic nonsense, but the instruction itself is relatively good. Our local middle school has a reputation for being a very safe, academically-oriented environment where the teachers and administrators really look out for the kids, particularly the bright, gifted kids. My dd's public school friends read literature, memorize Latin roots, and do serious science labs. And the school offers Spanish, instrumental music instruction, a full dance program, competition math teams, science olympiad, computer programming, and a robotics team.

 

To do all of these things at home you would need tons of $$ and would spend all day driving around. Many homeschool parents here do just that, but I'm not surprised that other parents do the math and decide that their child is better off in public middle school. And that's before you get into many of the issues with the homeschool classes and co-ops themselves which often skew young age-wise and are full of kids who struggle academically. This is why we do all of our homeschooling at home.

 

We love homeschooling, but if I want my kids to have academic peers at some point then I will have to send them to school. Which may not be a terrible thing since our local high school has a full Latin program, foreign language teachers who are native speakers, strong AP science teachers, great arts programs, and a slew of AP classes. And teens need peers; they really do. So we will have to make the choice that best serves our children regardless of how that affects the homeschool community. Which is exactly what I said when we chose to homeschool rather than sending our kids to our public elementary.

Edited January 6, 2016 by MinivanMom

[KathyBC]

And teens need peers; they really do. So we will have to make the choice that best serves our children regardless of how that affects the homeschool community. Which is exactly what I said when we chose to homeschool rather than sending our kids to our public elementary.

  :iagree:

 

Yup, I got some sideways flak for pulling oldest after gr. 1. Due to declining enrollment, bus drivers and teachers were concerned to lose yet more students. But my priority then was my kids, as it is now.

 

Just a little jealous of your resources! :D

[terrikuns]

Big disclaimer: My kids are 6, 4, and 1.5 and we are half-way through kindergarten, so my thoughts are purely prospective.

 

As above, we are brand new homeschoolers. When we started we said, "let's try kindergarten." Now, half-way through that, we decided that we can't see transitioning from HS to all-day school in the early elementary/learning to read years, so we'll reassess around 3rd-4th grade. When we get to that point, who knows? But we are planning to transition to school no later than grades 7-9, depending on the kid and our then schooling options. That's built in to our plan (which yes, may change), and not because of harder math, harder content, lab sciences, sports, expense or any of those in particular, but because we anticipate being able to find a high school that meets our goals (academic, extracurricular, and social). I had a great HS experience in a wonderful prep school with great teachers, small classes, supportive sports teams, and a wonderful community environment. We're hoping to find a similar environment for our kids because we think that the sum is greater than the parts in many such schools. We didn't think that the math worked out the same way for elementary school, where we want to leave more free time in the day, maintain more family-level flexibility for travel, and I didn't want to spend more time driving kids to school than I actually need to spend on all the teaching for kindergarten. But we're homeschooling as the best way to meet our goals - both for the child and the whole family - not as an end in and of itself. 

 

I often think that we are not really public school dropouts so much as private school dropouts. We looked, found the (well rated) public schools lacking, and then started looking at private schools before we realized that we can maintain more control, and save our $7k/yr and 75 min/d of driving. We will probably use a good chunk of the money we would have spent on K-8 private school and spend it instead on high school. 

 

Again, my kids are still so young that I really can't say what actual choices we'll make when we get there. (Plus, we're a military family, so I have no idea where we'll actually be living at the time. This actually saves me a lot of stress pondering my future options.) But I wanted to throw out the idea that some of that attrition may be part of the original plan rather than a retreat from homeschooling, depending on a family's motivation for homeschooling. In our case, we will likely have (probably private) options for secondary school that fit our educational goals and will be worth the money and the time commitment; I'm not willing to make the same sacrifices for kindergarten.

[Wabi Sabi]

Can I ask what is so awful about middle school? 

We live in a mediocre, ho-hum elementary district, but the middle school is fairly highly regarded, and my 11 year talks about maybe wanting to give it a try. He has many friends who attend different elementary schools now that all feed into this middle school, so socially I think he'd be fine. He's an easy going, laid back kid who is level headed and gets along with everyone, and he genuinely seems to be well liked by other kids.  I was thinking it might actually be a decent time to try school since he's pretty sure he also wants to go to high school. He can give it a try and have a chance to get adjusted before things like GPA start to really matter. 

I do remember my own middle school years as fairly awful, however, I had a an overall unhappy, dysfunctional childhood, so elementary and high school were both just as bad as middle school for me. 

[Desert Strawberry]

Can I ask what is so awful about middle school? 

 

We live in a mediocre, ho-hum elementary district, but the middle school is fairly highly regarded, and my 11 year talks about maybe wanting to give it a try. He has many friends who attend different elementary schools now that all feed into this middle school, so socially I think he'd be fine. He's an easy going, laid back kid who is level headed and gets along with everyone, and he genuinely seems to be well liked by other kids.  I was thinking it might actually be a decent time to try school since he's pretty sure he also wants to go to high school. He can give it a try and have a chance to get adjusted before things like GPA start to really matter. 

 

I do remember my own middle school years as fairly awful, however, I had a an overall unhappy, dysfunctional childhood, so elementary and high school were both just as bad as middle school for me. 

I loved middle school, but it was overall a very damaging time for me. A lot of bad stuff happened, really not much related to school. 

 

My concerns are more age and development related than school related. It's such a delicate time for our kids. I know for mine, never having been to school, the intense and complex social environment would be incredibly overwhelming. If I were to ever put my kids in school, middle school would be the least desirable time to do it. 

 

i would so much rather they figure out who they are are and how the world works in the relative safety of my home. I just don't think the big world will be as kind to them and as forgiving of their errors as we will be. 

[73349]

Can I ask what is so awful about middle school? 

 

We live in a mediocre, ho-hum elementary district, but the middle school is fairly highly regarded, and my 11 year talks about maybe wanting to give it a try. He has many friends who attend different elementary schools now that all feed into this middle school, so socially I think he'd be fine. He's an easy going, laid back kid who is level headed and gets along with everyone, and he genuinely seems to be well liked by other kids.  I was thinking it might actually be a decent time to try school since he's pretty sure he also wants to go to high school. He can give it a try and have a chance to get adjusted before things like GPA start to really matter. 

 

I do remember my own middle school years as fairly awful, however, I had a an overall unhappy, dysfunctional childhood, so elementary and high school were both just as bad as middle school for me. 

 

Some issues that can come up, especially by 8th grade, are bullying (including online and via text), fighting, binge drinking, drug experimentation (often cigarettes, huffing or prescriptions), eating disorders, sexual experimentation and pressure, exposure to inappropriate media, truancy, or kids "falling between the cracks" academically (including in some cases being tracked incorrectly) because they have 6+ teachers a day instead of spending most of the day with one person.

 

I actually know a teacher who left teaching middle school partly because of online libel by her students--at a private, religious school. The school basically did nothing. She is much happier now at a public elementary.

 

Some of these issues are devastating in some communities. Many may not be a problem where you are, or for the crowd your son will belong to. Your school guidance counselor could tip you off to anything to watch out for if you try school, or you can talk to parents at the high school it feeds into.

Edited January 7, 2016 by whitehawk

[HSmomof2]

I think there are five main reasons for the middle school homeschool exodus. It seems pretty obvious to me why people do it.

 

1. Parental burnout

Lots of the families seem to have done it all the way through. That's about five years of homeschooling. It's a lot for many parents. The pressure to be creative and new and learn new things gets tough.

 

2. Subjects get harder

This is the age that people begin to be intimidated by math. A lot of people are intimidated by writing at the middle and high school levels as well. And when people look ahead to high school, they often want the kids to have middle school to adjust to school style work.

 

3. Kids ask for it

It's easy to say to a 7 yo, sweetie, homeschooling is better. It's hard to say to an opinionated 12 yo, sweetie, we're just doing what's best. Older kids have opinions and desires and they speak up. A lot of parents feel they need to respect that, especially if some of these other reasons are tugging at them to make a change anyway.

 

4. Middle Schoolers are hard

It's a hard age for a lot of kids and they make it hard on the parents. A lot of people are ready for some separation from their newly moody child. How many threads have you seen here where people are asking for help with their tweens who suddenly are having problems getting work done or with attitude or with friendship drama? Middle school is just a tough time for a lot of kids.

 

5. Everyone else is doing it

When everyone else is sending their kids, you begin to lose your community. It's just harder. It makes all of the above things even harder. If you don't have a community for a child, they're more likely to want to go to school to get some community. If you don't have community, it's harder to find people to help with difficult school subjects and to give you support for dealing with a rocky period of early adolescence or support you through burnout. And it becomes a sort of peer pressure as well.

 

All that said, we're not planning on bailing any time soon. :D I know this sounds horribly judgmental and I really do know and believe that you have to make the decision that's right for you... but I can't help but have a "NOOOO!" reaction when I hear that people send their kids to middle school. I taught middle school. Don't do it! If you can only homeschool for a short time, make it middle school instead of elementary.

ITA^^^ Especially #4 & 5. Mine did go to school for 4th and 6th grade. My difficult to homeschool middle schooler is gladly back home this year with a much improved attitude. 😬 Many of his homeschooled friends have returned to school this year, and we don't see them much. Thankfully, he's developed a nice group of friends from church that he spends a lot of time with.....one is homeschooled, one goes to private school, and two go to public school. I'm glad he's found a group of friends not based on school.

[luuknam]

Can I ask what is so awful about middle school?

 

IME, middle school was the worst wrt to bullying (and where I'm from, they don't even split school up into a separate middle school). Before middle school age, there was some bullying, but it really peaked in middle school, and then by high school age the kids were getting mature enough to do less bullying and to just exclude instead.

 

That said, there probably exist some great middle schools, and for some kids middle school might be a great time.

[mom2scouts]

My father was a middle school teacher for decades. He loved teaching that age, but knows it's a tough age. He's always been very supportive of homeschooling, but he asked me to promise that if I were ever going to send my children back to school, I would do it in elementary school or wait until high school.

[FriedClams]

I will add that some of the drop off may be perception. When my kids were little we were much more active in our homeschool group. They had "sports" (VERY rec level - not competitive AT ALL), library time, etc. I needed Mom's Nights Out and other social things when I was starting. I needed the support and I could pretty much take the kids to anything and they were content.

 

I've been doing this for over 10 years now. My kids aren't "into" the activities our group offers. They don't want to sing in a choir. They don't want to play basketball (basically instructional). They aren't interested in the Princess Valentine's Ball (really). We do participate in our robotics team and while it's not off the grid, it's older kids so there is much less parental face time. Unless your kid is on the team you really don't know who's on it.

 

We are active in our general community. We volunteer at a food pantry 3-4 times a month. We're active in Scouts. We're active in our church. My kids will test for their black belts this summer in TKD. I think some of the drop in homeschool participation is parental, and much is kid driven interest level.

 

You really won't see us (or many or other middle/high schoolers or parents) at many of the events. We're still around. We're just really busy with school taking longer, teens needing sleep, outside activities, online classes, teens with jobs, etc.

[...................]

Yep. Same thing here. There is a drop off in middle school and then a huge one in high school. You really have to surround yourself with people who have BTDT all the way through so you can find one or two moms that have similar situations and see how they made it work. At our church 75% of elementary and middle schoolers are or were homeschooled. 0% of high schoolers are homeschooled. My son will be the first in the last 5 years to be homeschooled through high school. And all the moms of middle schoolers I know are leaning toward traditional schooling for high school. In fact the comments from all of our acquaintances and friends at church show that they fully expect we will put our son in school next year. They are all shocked when we tell them that's not our plan.

 

And of course these forums are the best. ...but you should seek or several IRl moms who have gone all the way.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I will add that some of the drop off may be perception. 

 

True. Very true. I tried a few groups/park days/HS specific classes for art, etc. when my kids were much younger, but I haven't signed up for anything HS specific in years. They have always had PS or private schooled friends, except for once when a family of homeschoolers lived across the street from us. They tend to make friends through neighborhood play or through non-HS specific activities. Because we don't seek out other homeschoolers, we would not be counted among anyone's upper elementary and middle school numbers if you think of it in terms of interaction with other homeschoolers. 

Edited January 9, 2016 by Alte Veste Academy

[mom2scouts]

It's really kind of sad that it's harder to connect with teen homeschoolers. The teen years are a time when they are looking for more social outlets and homeschool activities rarely provide them. We have an active homeschool group in my city, but none of the students who attend are older than 8 or 9. We started attending a homeschool swim class and I saw visible relief on the face of a young teen boy when I walked in with my 13 year old and then two other teens showed up. The boy's parent turned to him and said, "See? I told you there would probably be some older kids here." Another time we walked into an activity where a teen girl was arguing with her father that she hadn't wanted to come because she knew there wouldn't be anyone else her age. It seems to be a real fear for teen homeschoolers that they'll show up to a homeschool activity and there will only be a bunch of elementary age homeschoolers. My teen knows a couple of homeschooled kids in other activities, but in both cases an older sibling has already started in public school and they'll likely follow.

[HandsToWork]

I thought I'd homeschool through High School.

I was totally confident in my ability to teach tougher subjects, but the 11yo suddenly didn't want anything to do with me. And then I realized I'd spent many years doing this (with cooperative kids), and was not willing to be yelled at or to fight a kid to homeschool. I sent both my 11yo and my 6yo t public school, and they are really happy. The change in the 11yo has been night and day. He's still cranky at home, but he pops up out of bed at 6am (never happened with HS), and gets himself ready and out the door to walk a mile to the bus. He loves the social life. I don't think the education is better than HS, but at least he's getting something. Something had to give to save my sanity.

[Dmmetler]

There is a big drop off here at middle school and another at high school. Both to school, for the academics, for social, for extracurriculars, and to structured homeschool programs that basically structures the whole week around those activities, for similar reasons. Even rec sports mostly drop off at that age, because the schools pick up that role at middle school. DD lost most of her cheer team to middle school cheer and dance teams.

 

It can make it tough for kids who are not good fits for either a traditional school or the 2 day a week tutorials.

[happypamama]

I see it for a few reasons.

 

Sports -- This is not an issue in my state, because our law allows us to play on the school sports teams, but I know it is for some.

 

Dual enrollment -- Some districts pay for it. That would be quite a big draw, and I'd really be weighing it hard. (My district doesn't pay for it, so it isn't a concern for me.)

 

Financial -- If I didn't have my almost 3yo, I could put all of my kids in school this year, from K to 9th grade, and get a job, while the school watched my kids. Even paying a sitter for the littlest one wouldn't be horrible. And our oldest could watch them all in the afternoon. This is a big difference from three years ago, when daycare for three little ones, including an infant, would have been prohibitive, and I would have needed after school care for my oldest two. (This is pretty much the only reason I'd consider it, and we'd have to be really badly off for it to happen. I don't have a career I'd like to return to, and I already have a DH who works a lot of hours. He can work from home occasionally, so I think we'd try to split things before we went to two outside jobs.)

 

Support -- Fewer homeschooled teens means fewer activities for teens, and/or teens just don't do many activities, so people feel unsupported and like their teens need school for the social stuff.

 

In some states, it's hard to get a diploma while homeschooling. (For all people talk about how hard it is to homeschool in PA, I can issue a diploma myself, signed by our evaluator, and it will have all the rights and privileges of a school-issued one.)

 

Also, around here, we have some Christian schools that people seem to like a lot. But many people can't justify sending their kids to private/Christian schools, financially, in the younger grades, but they don't want them in public school either, so they homeschool. But come high school, they're ready to pay for private/Christian school.

[bethben]

In the late junior high and into high school, especially with boys, the relationship becomes a little strained that is strained a bit more if mom is the teacher.  My friends would tell me about 15 year old boys and now I believe them.  The boy wants to be "the man" and is learning and desiring to be "the man" and having to still listen to his mommy grates on him a bit.  Add mom as teacher and it becomes a bit harder.  Then, with high school, one person cannot be the expert at everything and you start to realize that someone (aka a teacher who has majored in their subject) CAN do a better job than you teaching the high school subject. When they're in elementary school, a lot of homeschool moms can do as well or better than a teacher with 25-30 students in the classroom.  We've chosen to spend our money with online classes for our two sons starting in 6th grade.  It has really saved the relationship.  My 15 year old will be completely doing online classes and a community college math class next year.  It is what works for us while still allowing us to give him a Christian based education.

[....]

It's really kind of sad that it's harder to connect with teen homeschoolers. The teen years are a time when they are looking for more social outlets and homeschool activities rarely provide them. We have an active homeschool group in my city, but none of the students who attend are older than 8 or 9. We started attending a homeschool swim class and I saw visible relief on the face of a young teen boy when I walked in with my 13 year old and then two other teens showed up. The boy's parent turned to him and said, "See? I told you there would probably be some older kids here." Another time we walked into an activity where a teen girl was arguing with her father that she hadn't wanted to come because she knew there wouldn't be anyone else her age. It seems to be a real fear for teen homeschoolers that they'll show up to a homeschool activity and there will only be a bunch of elementary age homeschoolers. My teen knows a couple of homeschooled kids in other activities, but in both cases an older sibling has already started in public school and they'll likely follow.

 

I know you posted this a few months ago, but I hear ya'!  This has been bothering me a lot lately.  We seem to be the only ones homeschooling teenagers.  And the only ones not outsourcing everything.  'Tis lonely here!  LOL.