Don't Quote- But does this make sense? Am I unrealistic?

[TranquilMind]

I will try to be brief.  I have had a friend for about 15 years, though this friend has turned on me a couple of times over the years, which I always forgave.  I guess the writing was always on the wall, but my insistently positive perspective that I could somehow fix it got in the way.  Said friend has been through some very hard times, and I have really been there over all this time, listening to endless vents over the period of several years, providing help of all kinds, never complaining, etc.  Recently, things have improved for this friend and I am happy about that.

Well, recently, I've been going through some hard times myself.  A couple of deeply painful things have happened.   I have vented over the last couple of months only about one particular issue I have been trying to resolve in which I was dealing with someone immensely frustrating and difficult (doesn't matter what area, but assume it is work-related).    When I review emails I have sent to the "friend" about all this, they are probably 75=80% positive and funny as is typical of me,  and maybe 20-25% venting in recent weeks. 

 

Upon yet another request from me to see if we could finally get together for lunch, said friend chastised me about being so negative and about how she avoids me because she just couldn't be dragged down by my "negativity".

 

What??  I dealt with your issues compassionately for years on end, I want to say.  Now that I am the one having a hard time and just wanting someone to talk to, you can't be bothered.  I must be 100% perfect and happy at all times while you are allowed to have ups and downs.  You can complain bitterly for years and I just listen and do backflips to help you in all kinds of ways.   

 

Sometimes people aren't nice.   I guess this is a "vent".  ;)   Are you all going to run from and shun me too??  (Joking, a little).    But...ouch. 

New year...new friends.  I guess it is time.  I always knew this was coming, but you always hope it is later. 

 

Please don't quote.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2015 by TranquilMind

[umsami]

:grouphug:

 

IMHO, friends are the people you can vent to.... even if it's a ton (which it doesn't sound like it was.)

 

It's really hard to drop a friend, but I'd probably do that.  I'd just be busy when she asks to go out, etc.  Wouldn't reply quickly to emails, etc.

 

:grouphug:

[Catwoman]

Tell her what you just told us.

 

I don't think this is something you need to be silent about .

 

Your friend sounds incredibly self-absorbed and selfish, and I'll bet she can't stand it when you have problems because it means that she is not the center of attention.

 

She sounds like a rotten friend. You sound like an excellent and compassionate friend. :grouphug:

[SparklyUnicorn]

That sounds pretty selfish. 

[freeindeed]

I am sorry. I'm sure that hurts. I would suggest moving on from this relationship. A friend should be there for you during all times. I've run into some similar type "friends" since adopting my daughter with special needs. I eventually gave up on them and that opened the door to some new and meaningful friendships. I hope the same will happen for you.

[Azalea]

I agree with Cat. Tell her exactly what you just told us. Life is short.

[TranquilMind]

:grouphug:

 

IMHO, friends are the people you can vent to.... even if it's a ton (which it doesn't sound like it was.)

 

It's really hard to drop a friend, but I'd probably do that.  I'd just be busy when she asks to go out, etc.  Wouldn't reply quickly to emails, etc.

 

:grouphug:

The problem is, replacements are not easy to find at this stage in life. 

 

I was backing off as I noticed that responses were dwindling and the ratio was tilting dramatically.  Well, I guess I know why now. 

 

But ouch.  This is probably the person in my life for whom I did the most and with whom I spent the most time, when I look back (outside of family). 

[TammyS]

:grouphug:   That really bites.  So sorry.

 

The worst thing, is that I'm sure she believes it.  You've been experiencing two different friendships.  That happens sometimes. 

 

I'm not sure I would say "walk away", because I think that it's not totally necessary.  But I would drop the rope.  Let the impetus for whatever relationship you'll have with her, be on her (at least for a while).  Simultaneously, I would start looking to expand my life in a different direction with some new people.

[Lady Florida.]

It sounds like she wants to have you as an all weather friend, but just be a fair weather friend for you. If you think you can tell her how you feel and she'll actually listen, then tell her. If not, it's probably time to back away from the friendship. It's hard and it hurts, but friendships should go both ways and both friends should be there for each other in good times and bad.

[Happy]

I had a friend like that. I walked with her through her mom's cancer and death, through her husband's affair...I listened, I was supportive, I worked at being a very good friend. Then we had some issues--unemployment and my own cancer diagnosis. Where was my friend? No where to be found.

 

I don't get it at all. She even apologized once for it, but nothing ever changed. She is the best friend from 1982-1999...after that we are distant friends. I still love her, but other than a few cards, we just don't  communicate much anymore.

[TranquilMind]

Tell her what you just told us.

 

I don't think this is something you need to be silent about .

 

Your friend sounds incredibly self-absorbed and selfish, and I'll bet she can't stand it when you have problems because it means that she is not the center of attention.

 

She sounds like a rotten friend. You sound like an excellent and compassionate friend. :grouphug:

I did, kindly, and with apologies on my part (?? - what's wrong with me)?   No response. 

 

Thanks.  I wish I could find awesome friends.  Or even one with whom the friendship would last and be reciprocal, not unequal.  I have many brief friendships clustered around specific activities or interests.  But you know what I mean.  Where are the real friends, where it is equal and where they stay around for you too? 

 

 

I'm the most loyal person ever.   Thanks for what you said.  I try.

Edited December 16, 2015 by TranquilMind

[TranquilMind]

I had a friend like that. I walked with her through her mom's cancer and death, through her husband's affair...I listened, I was supportive, I worked at being a very good friend. Then we had some issues--unemployment and my own cancer diagnosis. Where was my friend? No where to be found.

 

I don't get it at all. She even apologized once for it, but nothing ever changed. She is the best friend from 1982-1999...after that we are distant friends. I still love her, but other than a few cards, we just don't  communicate much anymore.

I'm so sorry.

 

I wish WE were friends. 

 

I'm pretty sure that is where we are headed.  Only I didn't even get a  card (like I sent).  ;)

Edited December 16, 2015 by TranquilMind

[TranquilMind]

:grouphug:   That really bites.  So sorry.

 

The worst thing, is that I'm sure she believes it.  You've been experiencing two different friendships.  That happens sometimes. 

 

I'm not sure I would say "walk away", because I think that it's not totally necessary.  But I would drop the rope.  Let the impetus for whatever relationship you'll have with her, be on her (at least for a while).  Simultaneously, I would start looking to expand my life in a different direction with some new people.

The bolded is an interesting way to put that. 

 

I am not sure how I could have been so wrong.  This wasn't just a friendship but more like family replacement. 

 

You are right.  There is no reason to walk "away" from someone who has already walked away from you.  The distance is already growing. 

 

It hurts though, especially right now.  Merry Christmas to me. 

Edited December 16, 2015 by TranquilMind

[kewb]

Friendship is like finding the perfect homeschool group, or house of worship, or job. It is dating and you have to kiss a lot of frogs.

I am sorry this friend has turned out to be fair weather. On the bright side, she has shown her true colors and freed you up to find the friend you deserve.

[idnib]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I would tell her what you told us and if that doesn't have an impact, I'm afraid you'll have to move on.

[TammyS]

The bolded is an interesting way to put that. 

 

I am not sure how I could have been so wrong.  This wasn't just a friendship but more like family replacement, with vacations, holidays, etc.   Until she turned on me the first time.  We never really got back there, now that I think about it. 

You are right.  There is no reason to walk "away" from someone who has already walked away from you.  The distance is already growing. 

 

It hurts though, especially right now.  Merry Christmas to me. 

 

I know it hurts, and I'm so sorry.  Friendships at this age are really hard to come by.  I'll pray for you, and all of us in a similar situations, that we find good, nurturing friends and that we see ourselves clearly so that we can be good, nurturing friends.

[TranquilMind]

Friendship is like finding the perfect homeschool group, or house of worship, or job. It is dating and you have to kiss a lot of frogs.

I am sorry this friend has turned out to be fair weather. On the bright side, she has shown her true colors and freed you up to find the friend you deserve.

Well, where the heck ARE they?? ;)

[TranquilMind]

Sort of the same boat here.  I got dropped and it hurts. 

I'm really sorry.  Why are people so mean?  Adults are no better than children, it seems.  In fact, worse.  At least children are honest about what they are doing and own it. 

I'd be your friend! 

[SproutMamaK]

I think what Tammy is saying is that you've been looking at this as a friendship. You've thought of it as give and take, a relationship where you can both depend on each other. To her, you haven't been a friend... you've been a support system. Your role in her life is to give her strength, help, advice, conversation, etc. You've been approaching this as a two-way thing, but for your friend it's always been about what she gets out of it. Now that you're trying to move into a role that is something other than "I exist to support you in your life and for no other reason," she's unwilling to give back. I'm not saying that's even necessarily a BAD thing; I think all of us have relationships where we take more than we give, and we do tend to take those relationships for granted. However, it's important to be aware of the nature of the relationship on both sides so that you can invest in it appropriately.

[TranquilMind]

I know it hurts, and I'm so sorry.  Friendships at this age are really hard to come by.  I'll pray for you, and all of us in a similar situations, that we find good, nurturing friends and that we see ourselves clearly so that we can be good, nurturing friends.

Thank you, Tammy.  It doesn't sound like I am alone in this.  Sadly. 

[AmandaVT]

It sounds like she wants to have you as an all weather friend, but just be a fair weather friend for you. If you think you can tell her how you feel and she'll actually listen, then tell her. If not, it's probably time to back away from the friendship. It's hard and it hurts, but friendships should go both ways and both friends should be there for each other in good times and bad.

 

I have a friend just like this. I enjoy her company and care about her and I know she thinks she cares about me too, but honestly, she calls me in times of need and is not there for me when I am struggling. I am still friends with her, but I keep it light and easy and see her for occasional lunches or something and go to other friends when I need a shoulder to cry on. 

[TranquilMind]

I think what Tammy is saying is that you've been looking at this as a friendship. You've thought of it as give and take, a relationship where you can both depend on each other. To her, you haven't been a friend... you've been a support system. Your role in her life is to give her strength, help, advice, conversation, etc. You've been approaching this as a two-way thing, but for your friend it's always been about what she gets out of it. Now that you're trying to move into a role that is something other than "I exist to support you in your life and for no other reason," she's unwilling to give back. I'm not saying that's even necessarily a BAD thing; I think all of us have relationships where we take more than we give, and we do tend to take those relationships for granted. However, it's important to be aware of the nature of the relationship on both sides so that you can invest in it appropriately.

I think you might be right here.  But we did have a lot of good times and a lot of laughs along the way.  It sure did look like friendship.  I thought she "got me". 

 

She did, so long as I was the ideal me.  But I'm not, all the time.  I'm hurting now.   But I will put my happy mask back on soon, I'm sure, and go on.  Just couldn't do it today. 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2015 by TranquilMind

[TranquilMind]

I have a friend just like this. I enjoy her company and care about her and I know she thinks she cares about me too, but honestly, she calls me in times of need and is not there for me when I am struggling. I am still friends with her, but I keep it light and easy and see her for occasional lunches or something and go to other friends when I need a shoulder to cry on. 

That's what I need to do.  Unfortunately, I don't seem to have those other friends right now.  I had a few over the years, but you know how things change as your kids age and your life changes.  I still have one but she is really busy running stuff and I can't bother her with something so trivial as my feelings, I think. 

[Mommy22alyns]

Ouch, I'm sorry.  I would feel the same.   :grouphug:

[Bambam]

I am sorry. I have some friends who are "users". They can be fun to hang out with, but they can't be there for you when you need someone to listen to you or to help or to offer support or encouragement. It is tough. 

 

An excellent friend is a treasure indeed. 

[kewb]

Well, where the heck ARE they?? ;)

Did you miss the part about the dating? :)

You've got to put yourself out there. Mingle.

[TranquilMind]

Did you miss the part about the dating? :)

You've got to put yourself out there. Mingle.

I don't even want to speak to anyone.

 

I have been avoiding people all week.  This didn't help. 

 

[kewb]

Sorry. I totally get the avoiding people. I have hermit tendencies and realized that I can easily never leave my house again.

 

Hopefully, a situation will arise soon where you will have the opportunity to make a new connection.

[TranquilMind]

Sorry. I totally get the avoiding people. I have hermit tendencies and realized that I can easily never leave my house again.

 

Hopefully, a situation will arise soon where you will have the opportunity to make a new connection.

Thanks, you too!  We hermits must get out into the world. :)

[38carrots]

Hugs. I'm sorry you are going through this. It is hard.

 

I've been through several cycles like this, and they are followed by self-evaluation, self-doubt, and ultimately releasing the relationship. I'm not sure why this happens to me, maybe because I'm easy to talk to and I tend to reach out too much and I establish myself as a reliable, supportive listener early on.

 

I came to believe that maybe this is how some friendships cycle? I enjoy those relationships, they are fun and even fulfilling. I'm good at supporting. When I need support myself, I am sort of dropped. It sucks, and sometimes this hurts more, sometimes less. I wonder how to re-start as a different type of friend? lol Maybe I need to present myself as more needy myself, and then I'll attract a supportive listner? ha-ha

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:  I wish I knew why this happens and how to avoid and how to get more even friends. 

[goldberry]

I'm so sorry.  This is why i finally gave up finding friends in adulthood, and am just settling for hubby.  (We have a good friendship, but sometimes you need a gal pal, ya know?)  It's easy enough to find casual friends, but not the deep, all weather friends.

 

But even DD has discovered, loyalty is hard to come by, even among youngers when friendships are more easily formed.  She is fiercely loyal, and so she expects loyalty in return.  It's too much to ask, I guess, for most people.

 

:grouphug:

[Guest]

She sounds quite selfish. I'd let her know gently that you have loved her and listened to get difficulties and part of a friendship is returning that when the friend is in a position of need. If she cannot get on board with that it is up to whether to continue in friendship.

[goldberry]

And to answer your title, does it make sense?  Of course it does.  If you are a giving, loyal person, of course it makes sense to expect someone to be there for you as well when you need it.  It makes sense to be hurt by not getting that.   Especially as I get older, I don't have time for that kind of friendship. Maybe that leaves me with not many friends (1?) but so be it.

 

ETA, no time for shallow, one-sided friendships, I mean.  I do have the time to invest in a real one, because I value those.

Edited December 16, 2015 by goldberry

[TranquilMind]

Hugs. I'm sorry you are going through this. It is hard.

 

I've been through several cycles like this, and they are followed by self-evaluation, self-doubt, and ultimately releasing the relationship. I'm not sure why this happens to me, maybe because I'm easy to talk to and I tend to reach out too much and I establish myself as a reliable, supportive listener early on.

 

I came to believe that maybe this is how some friendships cycle? I enjoy those relationships, they are fun and even fulfilling. I'm good at supporting. When I need support myself, I am sort of dropped. It sucks, and sometimes this hurts more, sometimes less. I wonder how to re-start as a different type of friend? lol Maybe I need to present myself as more needy myself, and then I'll attract a supportive listner? ha-ha

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:  I wish I knew why this happens and how to avoid and how to get more even friends. 

The bolded made me laugh out loud!  Ha ha

 

I'm NOT needy.  That's the thing.  I rarely ask for someone to even listen to me. 

 

And gee, you'd think that someone for whom I have done quite a lot more than the average friend might do might be able to just deal with it for a time, or even say something KIND like, "Boy, that seems to be a really frustrating situation for you.  You seem to be angry about it.  I hope it gets better."  Or something.  What's so darn hard about that??

Edited December 16, 2015 by TranquilMind

[Guest]

Dear __________

 

I am sorry I assumed that ours was a friendship where we could be real and share both the good and the bad. Having been there for you on multiple occasions when things in your life weren't going so great, I thought that it would be the same when things weren't so great for me. In the future, I will make sure to share the negative (and REAL) side of my life with people who aren't bothered by it.

 

Of course I tend to be blunt and to the point when someone needs to hear it, so take it for what it is. :)

Edited December 16, 2015 by tbog

[TranquilMind]

And to answer your title, does it make sense?  Of course it does.  If you are a giving, loyal person, of course it makes sense to expect someone to be there for you as well when you need it.  It makes sense to be hurt by not getting that.   Especially as I get older, I don't have time for that kind of friendship. Maybe that leaves me with not many friends (1?) but so be it.

 

ETA, no time for shallow, one-sided friendships, I mean.  I do have the time to invest in a real one, because I value those.

I'm looking for these real friends.  A lot of people are in disguise and appear to be friends. 

[brehon]

TM, I had something similar happen several years ago. This person and I had been great friends through university and into young adulthood. She ia technically my eldest's godmother. I listened to her rant, kvetch, vent, cry on my shoulder over many issues through our 20s and early 30s.

 

I finally realized that she never extended the same consideration to me when I had problems. What can I say? I'm pretty clueless, I guess. So, fast forward a bit and I haven't spoken to her in many years. I just stopped initiating calls, visits, etc and - no surprise - she never called me. I imagine she never even missed me.

 

So, anyway, I'm sorry you going through this. It's never easy. (((())))

[Guest]

I'm looking for these real friends.  A lot of people are in disguise and appear to be friends. 

 

They are few and far between. Our life the last few years was a series of twists and turns and ups and downs. I had a couple of friends that were there and would listen, whether I was sharing good news, or on the verge of tears. Those are the ones I know are true friends.

[Rosie_0801]

I am not sure how I could have been so wrong.  

 

The same way as all the rest of us who have been in these situations.  :grouphug:

[Guest]

Fair-weather friend. Bye-bye.

 

BTW, I had a "friend" like this, too. It was only after our friendship dissolved that I started to see she did this with many of her "friends." She had one "friend" whom she was always trashing because friend would not live her life the way back-stab friend wanted her to. I remember thinking once, "She keeps calling 'Jane' her best friend since childhood, but I can't think of a single nice thing she has said about Jane for the past five years."

[MercyA]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[goldberry]

 I just stopped initiating calls, visits, etc and - no surprise - she never called me. I imagine she never even missed me.

 

 

I read something recently...

 

Two things you should never have to chase:  true love, and true friends.

 

If someone wants to be with you, they will be with you.  That's just the way it works.

[happi duck]

(Hugs)

[goldberry]

Fair-weather friend. Bye-bye.

 

BTW, I had a "friend" like this, too. It was only after our friendship dissolved that I started to see she did this with many of her "friends." She had one "friend" whom she was always trashing because friend would not live her life the way back-stab friend wanted her to. I remember thinking once, "She keeps calling 'Jane' her best friend since childhood, but I can't think of a single nice thing she has said about Jane for the past five years."

 

 

This gave me a flashback... during my last ended friendship, this friend mentioned a friend, who was such a good friend, she was her bridesmaid, etc.  But then I realized this "friend" was never mentioned otherwise, never doing anything with friend, talking with friend, etc. One time I said, "oh, when's the last time you talked to her?"  "I don't know, a year or so."

 

I remember thinking, that was such a good friend, but she doesn't do anything with her and hasn't talked to her in a year? It should have been a giant heads up that she did not view friendship the same way I did. 

[Guest]

I read something recently...

 

Two things you should never have to chase: true love, and true friends.

 

If someone wants to be with you, they will be with you. That's just the way it works.

But what if nobody wants to be with you? I think that is the fear that rears its ugly head...maybe I suck. Maybe I am unworthy of love. Maybe nobody really likes me for real.

 

Then you might chase it, because otherwise, you won't have it at all.

[trulycrabby]

I am sorry, but I think she just told you that she is not your friend. Friends can vent, cry, complain, commiserate, laugh, joke. There is no requirement for endless, insincere positivity, and if you have a problem, a friend will care and want to help. :grouphug:

[goldberry]

But what if nobody wants to be with you? I think that is the fear that rears its ugly head...maybe I suck. Maybe I am unworthy of love. Maybe nobody really likes me for real.

 

Then you might chase it, because otherwise, you won't have it at all.

 

 

Well that was depressing. ;)

 

Seriously though, I tend to think if you can't even make a casual friendship, maybe yes there might be some social issues.  But if the person likes you enough to let YOU be there for THEM, then you are not the problem.  Otherwise, why would it only come up when you need something instead?  That's a big clue right there.

 

I *have* struggled with the "am I asking too much of a friendship" aspect.  But the truth is, I am willing to give it, so why would I not expect it back?  And if I am asking too much, then so be it.  That's not the kind of friendship I would be interested in then, so it is still best for me to let it go.

[bolt.]

Unpopular opinion;

 

It seems logical to me that the people who are most in need of my support, are likely to be the least well-equipped to grant support to others.

 

There might be a few 50/50 people out there (some real problems, some remaining emotional resources) but most people are exhausted by having real problems, and therefore have less-than-average emotional resources to share with those who have been a friend to them through their real problems. I think reciprocity is only a reasonable expectation when each 'friend' has a reasonably good life, and the problems are (usually) either short-term or small scale. Such lives are hard to find, which is why, if that's the only kind of "friend" -- obviously they would be rare.

 

I also think that while friendship or live need not be "chased" it does require effort, careful decisions, and pro-active choices to start and maintain healthy relationships. Many people who 'won't chase' do find themselves lonely.

Edited December 17, 2015 by bolt.

[Guest]

Unpopular opinion;

 

It seems logical to me that the people who are most in need of my support, are likely to be the least well-equipped to grant support to others.

 

There might be a few 50/50 people out there (some real problems, some remaining emotional resources) but most people are exhausted by having real problems, and therefore have less-than-average emotional resources to share with those who have been a friend to them through their real problems. I think reciprocity is only a reasonable expectation when each 'friend' has a reasonably good life, and the problems are (usually) either short-term or small scale. Such lives are hard to find, which is why, if that's the only kind of "friend" -- obviously they would be rare.

 

I also think that while friendship or live need not be "chased" it does require effort, careful decisions, and pro-active choices to start and maintain healthy relationships. Many people who 'won't chase' do find themselves lonely.

That is a valid point. I mused once that those who need love and kindness the most are the ones who are the hardest to give it to.

 

It still sucks, though, when you get hit with FWF.

[DawnM]

I have a friend like this.  I now am VERY selective in what I tell her, even though she vents a lot to me, she can't handle any of my venting, so I just don't do it anymore.  I also don't spend as much time with her as I used to.

 

I have wonderful friends who vent and allow me to vent, I am trying to focus on those.