Tanaqui Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 It's a day later and I'm still baffled that people think 'shall' is a pretentious word, or that the only usage appropriate today is as a silly affectation. Those people do not speak dialects where shall is common. It would be like saying 'twould in casual conversation - sure, it's a perfectly cromulent word, but if it's not a usual part of your dialect then it's going to stand out. And when people choose to use words that stand out, other people notice it. You know, tangent here, I was reading once a blog post from an American mother in England. She was surprised to find that her English friends thought "diaper" sounded so much nicer and less distasteful than the word "nappy", because her impression was just the other way around. Of course, upon reflection she realized that both groups thought the usual word for "a thing that catches baby poop" sounded a little icky and an imported word sounded comparatively nice. Neither "nappy" nor "diaper" is inherently pretentious. However, the use of an unusual word can be seen that way, whether that unusual word is "nappy" or "lorry" or "shall". 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I don't know how else to phrase sentences that usually begin with, "Shall we....." "Hey, you wanna..." Or some variation thereof. ^_^ [ETA, I see Mrs. Ivy beat me to it] Do "shall" users also use "shan't"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 "Hey, you wanna..." Or some variation thereof. ^_^ [ETA, I see Mrs. Ivy beat me to it] Do "shall" users also use "shan't"? Or "would you like to..." or "let's..." or "why don't we..." or "should...." Every dialect of English is capable of expressing the same ideas, we just don't always do it in the same way. I can express habitual action even though I don't have the habitual be like AAVE does. I can express recent news even without the after perfect used in Irish English. I can express a desire to do something, even without shall. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Do "shall" users also use "shan't"? I shan't tell you. It's a secret! Regards, Kareni 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikslo Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I shan't tell my aunt about this thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Just out of idle curiosity, I searched the board to see how frequently I've used the word shall. In a search of the current boards, I found ten threads (one of them this one); about half contained quoted shalls while the other half were my original writings. A search of the archived boards found four threads of which two contained quoted shalls and two were original writings Interesting! Regards, Kareni 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 And now I've spent WAY too much time searching to see how often others posting in this thread have the word shall show up in their threads. (Remember, it can show up if you've quoted another user or legal, religious, or other text.) The winner (barring any error) is: I use "shall." with 40 uses. Followed by: Only when being pretentious. with 28. Regards, Kareni 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 And now I've spent WAY too much time searching to see how often others posting in this thread have the word shall show up in their threads. (Remember, it can show up if you've quoted another user or legal, religious, or other text.) The winner (barring any error) is: with 40 uses. Followed by: with 28. Regards, Kareni I enjoy being pretentious. :D 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I enjoy being pretentious. :D I shall agree with you! Regards, Kareni 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renai Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Dd16 has informed me she also uses 'shall' in normal conversation. Gee, I wonder where she got that from... :leaving: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I shall research this phenomena and get right back to you. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikslo Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Shall I assist? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 It is funny because off the top of my head I would have said no but there are several examples here that I use. You shall not pass!! I say that all the time in my nice booming voice, I mean really there are so many instances when it just fits, nevermind the weird looks :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Shall I assist? You shall. (I'm upping my "shall" count since I don't want Tex to be more pretentious than I. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 You shall. (I'm upping my "shall" count since I don't want Tex to be more pretentious than I. I shall not be outdone. We shall overcome. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikslo Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Shall I be forced to run interference betwixt the two of you? 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 You most certainly shall not! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJosMom Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Shall I create a poll so we might resolve this controversy? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikslo Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I shan't take part in anything so plebeian. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Now I am tempted to go see all those 40 times I had "shall" show up in my posts. :P 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Shall I create a poll so we might resolve this controversy? I added one. :D I voted no but am warming up to the idea after this thread. :closedeyes: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Ooh. I like the hoity toityness of this thread. Betwixt, plebian. . . Shall we show the world the breadth and depth of WTM's conversational abilities? No one shall diss our loquacity. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renai Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Ooh. I like the hoity toityness of this thread. Betwixt, plebian. . . Shall we show the world the breadth and depth of WTM's conversational abilities? No one shall diss our loquacity. I seem to remember, way back in the annals of my mind, when WTM would have vocabulary-building conversations of this sort all the time. I did not take part as, alas, well, for the same reason I can't now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJosMom Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I seem to remember, way back in the annals of my mind, when WTM would have vocabulary-building conversations of this sort all the time. I did not take part as, alas, well, for the same reason I can't now. Can't, or shan't? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Ooh! I hate that I am all out of likes! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I've had people tell me that I talk like a book. Fine. It is good to talk like a book. Unless it's "Sniglets" or "Anguished English." FYI. :hat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I enjoy being pretentious. :D My dearest texee: Perchance, would one know how oft one might deign to decline one's pretentiousness? Happen that one's friends, who shall remain nameless, would at some time scoff at one's pretentiousness whilst simultaneously scoffing at one's behavior. Very sincerely, Remaining ever Your friend Ellie 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 My dearest texee: Perchance, would one know how oft one might deign to decline one's pretentiousness? Happen that one's friends, who shall remain nameless, would at some time scoff at one's pretentiousness whilst simultaneously scoffing at one's behavior. Very sincerely, Remaining ever Your friend Ellie Now, who is pretentious? :D 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Unless it's "Sniglets" or "Anguished English." FYI. :hat: Oh, but I so enjoy Sniglets! Some have become standard family vocabulary. Regards, Kareni 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lailasmum Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Since reading this thread I've noticed my eldest using shall several times, so I'd say it's part of our normal vocabulary. We are British though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelenNotOfTroy Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I think I use shan't and oughtn't more than I use shall, but I don't normally notice. My home is a bubble of antiquated language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I use both shall and shan't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJosMom Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 My dearest texee: Perchance, would one know how oft one might deign to decline one's pretentiousness? Happen that one's friends, who shall remain nameless, would at some time scoff at one's pretentiousness whilst simultaneously scoffing at one's behavior. Very sincerely, Remaining ever Your friend Ellie Aaaaaaaand...it's Queen Ellie for the WIN!!! :smilielol5: :smilielol5: :smilielol5: 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Since reading this thread I've noticed my eldest using shall several times, so I'd say it's part of our normal vocabulary. We are British though. I SO should have been British. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lots of little ducklings Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 :smilielol5: Texie, darling; it was not necessary that you drag me over here to convince me of your pretentiousness. :D Owing to the prodigious amount of time I have spent perusing this shall thread, I shan't ever recover from the disarray in which I now find my myself and my house. All is hither and thither, and nary a thing is in its place. Wherefore, I shall now take my leave. :leaving: 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabelen Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I do use it on occasion but I had a mix of British, American, Canadian and other English teachers learning English as a foreign language and I lived in the U.K for twelve years so it is still somewhat natural to me although it's been quite a while since. ETA I use shall far more than shan't. One thing I use it for is as a tag question, for example, I might say something like Let's go together, shall we? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbelle Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Very rarely and then only in a question or exclamation. Some of DH Aussie family do say shall regularly and they are neither uppity nor old fashioned in the slightest. Quite the opposite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classical Katharine Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Apparently that's a traditional rule, but does not actually indicate that shall can only be used in first person. When you want to express a strong determination to do something, shall is proper in second and third person which totally explains the use of shalt in the 10 Commandments. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/shall-or-will I've noticed in the New King James translation that "shall" is often used in the third person. "Wait on the Lord; be of good courage, and he shall strengthen your heart." In some verses I've even seen will, will, shall in the same passage, with the "shall" used where the text is intended to give confidence or assurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEK Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I use shall all the time, shan't less so but still regularly. Maybe it is more common here (Australia) than other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 What shall I say? I think I probably use it occasionally, but I don't have a big list in my head of words I use and the frequency with which I use them. My wife had to teach me that people don't actually use 'thrice' anymore (once, twice, thrice - why don't people use it anymore?). I read the complete works of Edgar Allan Poe the summer I turned 14, and since I didn't really begin to learn English until I was 12, that probably had some impact on my vocabulary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabelen Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 What shall I say? I think I probably use it occasionally, but I don't have a big list in my head of words I use and the frequency with which I use them. My wife had to teach me that people don't actually use 'thrice' anymore (once, twice, thrice - why don't people use it anymore?). I read the complete works of Edgar Allan Poe the summer I turned 14, and since I didn't really begin to learn English until I was 12, that probably had some impact on my vocabulary. In the Indian subcontinent people still use thrice in regular conversation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I use it and shall continue to do so until they pry it from my cold, dead lips. Wherefore, I shall now take my leave. :leaving: The combination of this language with a modern emoticon is :laugh:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renai Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 What shall I say? I think I probably use it occasionally, but I don't have a big list in my head of words I use and the frequency with which I use them. My wife had to teach me that people don't actually use 'thrice' anymore (once, twice, thrice - why don't people use it anymore?). I read the complete works of Edgar Allan Poe the summer I turned 14, and since I didn't really begin to learn English until I was 12, that probably had some impact on my vocabulary. I use thrice. I guess I don't really notice how often words are used by other people. And my oldest dd, the one who uses 'shall', clued in one day that I was using thrice. She turned around and said, "Wait. That's a thing? Cool!" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I've used thrice on occasion. I use it if it fits. Which I suppose is how I use all language whether it is older or newer in origin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 In my opinion, language is to be savored and played with. Who knows what I will say, because of it! My friends, family and even neighbors are used to it. And they join in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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