S/O thread: Strategies for reducing yelling/increasing domestic harmony

[LucyStoner]

Ok, someone on the yelling thread suggested a s/o thread for tips, tricks, ideas and strategies for not yelling at your kids and family or yelling less often.  This is that thread.  

 

Some call in non-violent parenting, some call it non-coercive parenting, some call it gentle parenting, some call it positive discipline.  Whatever the nomenclature, the general idea is the same.  

 

What this thread is not is a place to trash talk parents who either don't yell or seek to yell less often or to advocate for yelling or physical punishment. So if you think this is senseless crazytalk, it might not be the thread for you.  Similarly, there is conversely literally no need to trash talk parents who don't parent this way.  Respect:  it's a two way street.  

 

No matter where your are in your parenting and gentle parenting approaches, you are welcome here, be that deciding you want to yell less often or having parented mostly without yelling since the start or for some time.  Maybe you just have questions.  All fine.  

 

I will post a little ditty about what worked for us (even with a special needs, explosive child) and some resources.  I would love for others to do the same.  

 

Thanks all in advance for participating in this thread and not letting it devolve.  (OPTIMISM!)

[LucyStoner]

The quick and dirty of it for my family is that my husband and I came into parenting committed to not taking out anger and frustration on our child.  We had ok success with this.  Life got very hard for a sustained period, between end of life care, navigating the ASD diagnosis waters and a severe bout of PPD after my second child was born.  There was yelling.  There was shouting.  There was anger and frustration and steam and the whole kit and caboodle.  

 

We had to really intentionally reflect on and refine our values.  

 

No one would say my older son was "easy".  He was very disruptive, explosive and angry.  We realized that he, more than ever, needed a very consistent, firm but gentle approach and set, predictable routine.  We radically shifted things around, including making room for homeschooling, physical fitness, counseling for pretty much everyone.   For my older son to learn how to cope better with his big feelings and not hurt his family and himself physically and otherwise.  For my younger son to handle the anxiety and stress he experienced having an explosive older brother.  For mom and dad to process the frustration and desperation one feels when you can't seem to help a child.  We added near daily yoga and meditation/mindfulness exercises, especially for the boys and me.  

 

I make mistakes on the regular.  I am really awesome at...making mistakes.  We all are.  Part of being gentle with my sons was being gentle with myself.  The cliche that you have to love yourself to love others really played out like a text book in my life.  

 

So that's a little of why this has worked well in our family.  

[purplejackmama]

I need this thread. Ok, I want to hear practical steps you and your hubby took to redirect your anger, frustration, anxiety and general out if control feelings. Please :)

[purplejackmama]

Oh. And I'm also interested in how you have worked through changing to a more "gentle parenting" approach if both parents weren't on board.

[Guest]

Screaming makes me feel better, it's like a pressure release on a tea kettle. Then music and a good book helps me reset.

 

I have a word/phrase with my kids and they know when I close or leaving to go blow. Then when I've reset we move on with our day. That has worked better than anything else. If I don't vent it, it makes me physically sick. So since I can't throw up or pass out during school time I have to go on mommy timeouts.

 

I used to send my kids away for me to get space, but they respond better when I go away, so nobody is under the impression they've been timed out or banished. I save that for when they are losing control of have hurt someone and need to be removed. But for situations where it's just me and not them, mommy timeouts and gut deep, energetic screams make me feel so much better and don't trigger my adrenal issues.

[LucyStoner]

Screaming makes me feel better, it's like a pressure release on a tea kettle. Then music and a good book helps me reset.

 

I have a word/phrase with my kids and they know when I close or leaving to go blow. Then when I've reset we move on with our day. That has worked better than anything else. If I don't vent it, it makes me physically sick. So since I can't pass it during school time I have to go on mommy timeouts.

 

I used to send my kids away for me to get space, but they respond better when I go away, so nobody is under the impression they've been timed out or banished. I save that for when they are losing control of have hurt someone and need to be removed. But for situations where it's just me and not them, mommy timeouts and gut deep, energetic screams make me feel so much better and don't trigger my adrenal issues.

 

Please, this thread is not for defending screaming.  If you want that thread, start that thread.  I promise not to participate.  That's not my scene.

 

Poor adrenal function is linked to a poor stress reaction (believe me, I know, I have been getting medical help for my adrenal gland functioning for 4 years now.)

[Guest]

I'm more in favor than my husband. Truthfully, Drive By Parenting, by Ted Tripp and Todd Friel, is so so helpful. It's theological in nature, obviously, but having a clear set of guidelines for correcting and teaching the kids and a very clear and strict criteria for any spanking means it almost never gets used, even by my husband. I'd like to do away with it altogether but that's another story. That really limits any use and the entire series has made me think of parenting and correction in much more restorative, gentle terms. I had been previously exposed to something I now feel is way, way overly punitive on children, so this was much needed balance for us.

 

If I begin with a system and just explain to my husband what I'm doing, he tends to adopt it by default. However taking over all correction for awhile so he can observe and not get the chance to use the old style discipline may work well in your house. If mama feels strongly, mama should handle it as much as possible for the sake of both the kids and peace with husband.

 

It's a great audio series for Christians. I really recommend it, from the Wretched Resource Page. And it covers yelling and anger, too, as well as the whole range of ages and how parenting effectively changes with different children and their needs and stages.

Oh. And I'm also interested in how you have worked through changing to a more "gentle parenting" approach if both parents weren't on board.

I'm more in favor than my husband. Truthfully Drive By Parenting, by Ted Tripp and Todd Friel, is so so helpful. It's theological in nature, obviously, but having a clear set of guidelines for correcting and teaching the kids and a very clear and strict criteria for any spanking means it almost never gets used, even by my husband. I'd like to do away with it altogether but that's another story. That really limits any use and the entire series has made me think of parenting and correction in much more restorative, gentle terms. I had been previously exposed to something I now feel is way, way overly punitive on children, so this was much needed balance for us.

 

If I begin with a system and just explain to my husband what I'm doing, he tends to adopt it by default. However taking over all correction for awhile so he can observe and not get the chance to use the old style discipline may work well in your house. If mama feels strongly, mama should handle it as much as possible for the sake of both the kids and peace with husband.

 

It's a great audio series for Christians. I really recommend it, from the Wretched Resource Page. And it covers yelling and anger, too, as well as the whole range of ages and how parenting effectively changes with different children and their needs and stages.

[Guest]

Please, this thread is not for defending screaming. If you want that thread, start that thread. I promise not to participate. That's not my scene.

 

Poor adrenal function is linked to a poor stress reaction (believe me, I know, I have been getting medical help for my adrenal gland functioning for 4 years now.)

Sorry, I wasn't referring to screaming at the children, but for folks like me who tend to be external instead of internal with their stress. Mommy timeouts are awesome and just talking it out with the kids when I'm having a very rough day has helped so much. Then letting them know when I'm leaving that they're not in trouble but that mommy has to go vent and reset did wonders for my sensitive kiddo. She wants to make everything better and knowing mommy is sick, oddly enough, has been a big help for her.

 

I wish I'd said something sooner.

[rose]

Obviously not everyone's cup of tea but when I'm losing I pray. I feel like it helps.

[LucyStoner]

I need this thread. Ok, I want to hear practical steps you and your hubby took to redirect your anger, frustration, anxiety and general out if control feelings. Please :)

 

Me:

 

I started a hobby with earnest (roller skating with a dabble into derby).  I started lifting and working out.  This helps even out my moods more than anything.  

 

I attacked and mostly solved my insomnia.  

 

Meditation

 

Peer support, in person and on social media.  

 

In the moment with the kids I will narrate my stress management process.  This was really helpful for my older son.  

 

If I need to take a break, I take a break without storming off and with a set end time so the kids don't feel abandoned.  

 

Doing something silly when I reach that I.have.had.enough.ya.hear.me??!!! moment.  

 

I did CBT and DBT to decrease anxious thoughts and increase distress tolerance.  I use some of those skills here and there, like making a list, mindfulness etc.  

 

My husband:

 

He had to learn how to express anger.  He was of the bottle it up for months and years until it erupts, not like a steam kettle but a volcano overdue to blow its top.  So just learning to say "no, that's not ok with me." was key for him.  

 

He was raised in a DV home and was abused physically and verbally as a child.  He joined and later led a peer group for men committed to non-violence and overcoming a history of DV in their lives.  

 

He usually comes home, spends a few minutes with the kids and then has time to decompress for 1/2 hour or so before dinner.  

 

He started biking to work (many miles).  He started Crossfit for more strength training.  

 

Learning to manage his ADD and sensory stuff.  

 

 

 

We both have also learned to step back and let the kids resolve some of their own conflicts.  We then give a positive reinforcement for doing so but we found that sometimes our intervention would escalate them or that they weren't getting a chance to practice their own skills or relate to each other in a more positive way.  This was hard to learn as we had to trust that our older son wouldn't go off the rails.  We honed our rapid intervention when he was struggling more with autism related disproportionate anger and violence and we needed to physically separate them to protect little guy from possible injury. That was a long haul but with appropriate medication management and the skills he's gained over the last 15 months or so, we can have that trust.  For now.  Obviously, we are always monitoring the situation to make sure each kid is getting what they need.  

[Guest]

Obviously not everyone's cup of tea but when I'm losing I pray. I feel like it helps.

I've been having such a hard time with this lately. Do you pray for yourself, your kids, or the situation in general?

[purplejackmama]

I attacked and mostly solved my insomnia.

 

 

In the moment with the kids I will narrate my stress management process.

 

 

So much great advice in your post. I'm curious about these 2 points. How did you cure your insomnia? What does "narrate stress management process" look like? Help me understand what that means.

[LucyStoner]

Oh. And I'm also interested in how you have worked through changing to a more "gentle parenting" approach if both parents weren't on board.

 

Fortunately we are mostly on the same page but I think it's important to know we can only change ourselves.  We can't change our spouses, or our kids.  I have found that when I am being gentle with myself, my kids and my husband that rubs off on him and engenders in him a sense that he needs to soften his approach. and the same vice versa when I am fried- he is often the good example I need to get myself back on track.  

 

He's fairly proactive about this on his own as he really doesn't want to replicate his own childhood for the boys.  Which is a very, very wise thing on his part.  

[rose]

I've been having such a hard time with this lately. Do you pray for yourself, your kids, or the situation in general?

I pray for patience and grace and a growing measure of all the fruit of the Spirit. I believe that God will abundantly provide us with the strength that we need to be righteous in any and all situations. This is the manifestation of our salvation now. How much we access that gift is in our hands.

 

When it's my children's immaturity that is pushing my buttons I also pray for them.

 

I memorized Titus 2:11-14 with my children awhile back. It is both an encouragement and a challenge to me. Here it is:

 

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works. (ESV)

[LucyStoner]

So much great advice in your post. I'm curious about these 2 points. How did you cure your insomnia? 

 

 

Insomnia:

 

Good sleep hygiene.  I gave myself a bedtime routine until sleep became a normalized habit for me.  Things I did:

 

No screens in the bedroom.  I was a workaholic and would sit on my laptop and smartphone working on emails and other such crap until 3 or 4 in the morning sometimes.  When I was procrastinating from that, I'd waste time online or watch a movie on my iPad.  My boss would call me at 10 or 11PM.  Usually about non-work related stuff.  I reached the end of my rope and told him that any time he called me at home after X hour, I was not coming in the next morning and he'd see me after lunch.  I did it in a way that made it clear I was serious but not throwing a tantrum.  I made it a little joke.  It apparently helped not just me but my then co-workers, lol.  

 

No crap in my bedroom.  It used to be the first place stuff would be stashed, it became the last.  I redid the bedroom in nothing but a bed, a few pictures and pieces of art that made me happy, a nice chair and neat and tidy clothes storage.  Basically the master bedroom became the nicest room in the house and not the most neglected.  I made it feel like a bed and breakfast I wanted to visit.  Basically the bedroom became for sleeping, marital activities (ahem) and perhaps reading with a child.  And drinking tea.  Literal tea.  

 

Bath and herbal tea right before bed.  A low dose of melatonin.  Not staying in bed if I wasn't tired.  

 

I went from being up most nights of the month to only having 1-2 nights a month in my menstrual cycle where I just know I will be up late.  

 

I've fallen off this wagon but now I can get back on easily and I don't need a rigid routine to coax myself to sleep.  

[Guest]

That was perfect and extremely helpful as a reminder. Thank you very much for writing it out. It's been so hard around here lately, and I haven't been relying on the Lord nearly as much as other, far less sufficient sources (including myself!).

[albeto.]

Me:...

 

Me:

 

Noise levels in the house were louder than necessary. I'm not talking yelling, but general play, communication, existing. I could tune that out as I interpreted it as "happy children sounds." However, my brain thanked me for toning those happy sounds down a notch or two. 

 

Getting involved right away. For our kids, it worked out better to step in as a kind of mentor to help facilitate conflict before it got out of control. In my home, that could happen rather quickly, so I was "on call" quite a bit at first. I found that stepping in quickly helped dissolve conflict right away, and this was a welcome change over having to come after it was clear the kids couldn't resolve their issues independently.

 

Getting down on their eye level. We all hear it, but I found when I was busy doing Mommy Duties, I didn't really do that. It made a difference when I did. It seemed to slow things down a bit in my head. 

 

Visual cues were helpful. For a while I had one of those "I feel... today" flip thingies with different cartoon faces and corresponding emotions on my kitchen counter. Sometimes I set it, sometimes my kids set it. It helped us all be mindful of how we were feeling, and how others were feeling. An "anger thermometer" on the fridge was another useful tool. 

 

Set a timer for those things I wanted to say, "in a minute" or "not right now," and would never get around to. Sometimes this meant having a cup of cocoa/tea with child while they laid out a prepared argument about something they wanted changed. This was instead of arguing at the time. I learned to say, "You know, I don't have time to discuss this right now, but I will make time after lunch." Then set that time for 1:00 or something. That way we were both free from distractions, and could talk calmly and pleasantly.

 

Getting sleep. As an insomniac, this was tough. I wish I worked harder at learning how to relax so I could sleep. I felt like I needed quiet time more than sleep, but now I think that's deceptive. Sleep is more important. 

 

Outside activities for me (not sitting watching soccer practice). I've only figured this out recently, but doing something outside is better than simple exercise inside (and I haven't been able to make that work for years). It also helped with getting to sleep at night. 

 

Preparing supper early in the day. By 4:00 I was emotionally and mentally done. If I had chopped my vegetables and prepared things for supper later, then cooking supper took a fraction of the time. Not only did that free me up to help when necessary, it wasn't such a chore at the end of the day. It was far more pleasant, and I enjoyed my kids coming through the kitchen when I was simply stirring, rather than frantically pulling things out of the fridge to figure out what to make.

 

Figured out my pet peeves, took care to notice and, if possible, avoid them before they irritated me. 

[LucyStoner]

What does "narrate stress management process" look like? Help me understand what that means.

I realized that I was taking for granted that my son "should know how to stay calm". Well, that doesn't come easy or intuitively for him. So I will say something like this:

 

Situation: I overcooked my eggs.

 

"I am disappointed with how these eggs turned out. It's frustrating that they aren't the way we like them. Well, we can add some sausage and make them a bit tastier. That will work. We will make them again tomorrow and I bet I won't make that same mistake."

 

Is it a big deal? No. Does it need to be said aloud? Not for most people. But for my kid it shows him flexibility, changing plans, shifting gears. Obviously, that's a pretty stripped down example but the same principle works for more complex situations and I have found it soothes not only him but my younger son and myself.

 

And best of all, I see them mirroring it back to me and working to make their lives better and less stressful. My younger son who is absolutely paranoid of bees said to me, apropos of nothing "I think I heard a bee. But that's ok. Bees do important work. I can walk away from the bee and it will probably leave me alone. I don't think I am allergic to bees anyway. It can't kill me." To say this is an improvement, socially and otherwise, over him screaming bloody murder and running as though he is fleeing the Zombie Apocalypse is an understatement.

[LucyStoner]

Sorry, I wasn't referring to screaming at the children, but for folks like me who tend to be external instead of internal with their stress. Mommy timeouts are awesome and just talking it out with the kids when I'm having a very rough day has helped so much. Then letting them know when I'm leaving that they're not in trouble but that mommy has to go vent and reset did wonders for my sensitive kiddo. She wants to make everything better and knowing mommy is sick, oddly enough, has been a big help for her.

 

I wish I'd said something sooner.

 

Externalizing stress and anger is common but it's not the same thing as resolving stress and anger.  

 

This book, which has short exercises, has really helped many people I know, including me.  I used to be a yeller (not as much with the kids, but in general) and I really got a lot out of this.  

 

http://www.amazon.com/Dialectical-Behavior-Therapy-Skills-Workbook/dp/1572245131

[gardenmom5]

taking care of my health allowed me to be calmer.  (I have a genetic mutation that seriously limits my ability to use b-vitamins.  you know the *stress* vitamins . . . . supplementing them reduced my stress levels.)  I also learned to "know" myself - so I could see the stress building before it blew. (then I could do something proactive.)

 

yoga (I've a friend who did aerobics).

 

earplugs  . . . reduces noise exposure. (Noise is stressful to me.)

 

my sil did have her children remind her of their ages, so her expectations would be in line with their age, and not what she wished their age was . . .

[LucyStoner]

Gardenmom- very good points about vitamin levels. I take a high dose of B and D and that really does help.

 

I also keep noise pollution down with headphones and muting things that don't need sound (like Minecraft). Wanna bang on the piano? Fine. Use the headphones (it's an electric piano). I need to read a book for accounting class and am bothered by the kids just playing? I put on headphones and background music rather than repeatedly needing to tell them to hush.

[Guest]

Externalizing stress and anger is common but it's not the same thing as resolving stress and anger.

 

This book, which has short exercises, has really helped many people I know, including me. I used to be a yeller (not as much with the kids, but in general) and I really got a lot out of this.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Dialectical-Behavior-Therapy-Skills-Workbook/dp/1572245131

I opened it and am leaving it in a window for tomorrow. I'm too burned out at this point to check it out objectively. Truth - I went to a restaurant tonight and bitched here to feel better. It didn't help as much as I was hoping, but I'm not revved up and angry anymore, at least.

 

Things are bad right now and I just changed medication. Do I sound really way out of character the last few days? Be honest. Now that I'm not flipping out I'm thinking I may be reacting badly to my current condition and treatment but I can't really see it objectively and my family would have no clue, because I hide drama from them.

 

I don't sound unreasonable in my head, but it looks bad written down :(

[LucyStoner]

I opened it and am leaving it in a window for tomorrow. I'm too burned out at this point to check it out objectively. Truth - I went to a restaurant tonight and bitched here to feel better. It didn't help as much as I was hoping, but I'm not revved up and angry anymore, at least.

 

Things are bad right now and I just changed medication. Do I sound really way out of character the last few days? Be honest. Now that I'm not flipping out I'm thinking I may be reacting badly to my current condition and treatment but I can't really see it objectively and my family would have no clue, because I hide drama from them.

 

I don't sound unreasonable in my head, but it looks bad written down :(

You sound like you need a vacation and a margarita. For starters.

 

I may not agree with you on a lot and I am not sure why after your reaction to the other thread, you felt this was a good thread for you just tonight BUT I am genuinely worried for you and do think that you need more support and more stress outlets than you appear to be getting.

 

If you were in Seattle, I would mix you up some sangria and take you roller skating. Or something.

[Guest]

No, its a great thread. I think everyone could use more tools in their toolbox. I have always been and will always be a physical stress reliever but I never want to take stuff out on my kids, and I think most other non psycho/sociopaths feel the same way. There has already been great input here in general.

 

/still haven't done dishes.

[LucyStoner]

/still haven't done dishes.

Girl, you go to restaurants so you don't have to do the dishes. ;)

 

Since it sounds like you are juggling a load of stress, maybe run out and get paper plates and stuff. I've served many a cold sandwich meal on napkins. Simplify the number of things you have to do for a bit.

[Guest]

Husband did the dishes. For the second time today.

 

Bless him.

[Audrey]

I'm not a yeller when I'm mad. When I yell, it's almost always one of two things.  1) I need to get someone's attention all the way across the yard or field, or 2) I'm trying to be heard over an amp. 

 

When I'm very angry, I tend to get very quiet.  This is not necessarily any better than yelling, though, as I'm pretty damn scary when I'm angry-quiet.  So, if I find myself going there, I "take a break."  Sometimes the situation necessitates stepping out of the room for a moment to count my breathing and refocus.  Sometimes, I just shut my mouth and pause and take a mental step back. 

 

I've learned how to disengage my ego from the situation at hand.  I'm good at it most of the time, but not always.  99% of the time, the situation is not about me anyway.  That's especially where it's important to disengage ego and process through the problem logically with the other person (kid or adult -- it's all the same).  So, my thought process kind of goes like this:

 

Not about me -> then, about who? -> why? -> what's the crux? -> explore resolutions -> attempt to apply most reasonable option -> failing that, try again.

 

[LucyStoner]

.

[Rosie_0801]

 How did you cure your insomnia? 

 

Melatonin is made from left over serotonin, so eating the ingredients of serotonin helps immensely. Also, our bodies make most of our serotonin between dawn and 2 hours afterwards, so for women struggling with insomnia or SAD, getting up at 4am to exercise may not be the best plan. 

[Pegs]

I got rid of a whole lot of poorly behaved adults who were commanding my patient and loving attentions, and all of a sudden I had more patience and tolerance for my child. It was fabulous. Practically overnight, I could just *choose* not to yell at him when frustrated. It was pretty tough acknowledging that I was placating adults and resenting caring for the only person (apart from myself) who I was actually responsible for, but I'm glad I was honest with myself.

 

That's how I stopped yelling. :) Also mindfulness, for chronic pain and for sensory overload (mostly auditory stuff for me).

[Kerileanne99]

My sister had kids very young, four of them. She has a very absent and unsupportive hubby, and a ton of financial issues. Just about anything that could induce serious stress in life is her daily reality. I think Yelling was just a release for her, but it became verbal abuse. When you are that angry and yelling, you are not always able to monitor the words coming out of your mouth:(

 

She hated herself for it and would call in tears. She wanted to stop but didn't even know where or how to begin. Honestly, most of the stress relievers and options were simply out of her reach. She didn't have a car, couldn't get away, no support, you can imagine the stress.

 

So it came down to 'just stop yelling.' That was just too much of a task:(. She would wake up vowing not to yell, but by the mid-morning had lost the battle. It really was a cycle of yelling/shame/self-loathing...which made everything worse. What finally worked was this: she set a timer for one hour. In her mind she just had to make it without yelling for an hour. Then she would feel great, and reset the timer. Tackling it in smaller blocks made the whole thing more reasonable.

She also wore a rubber band on her wrist and would snap it if she felt herself start to get that angry, just to remind herself to breath and look at the timer.

[Pegs]

Those smaller goals with the timer sound like a great idea for someone right in the thick of it all, unable to change much about her circumstances.

[LucyStoner]

My sister had kids very young, four of them. She has a very absent and unsupportive hubby, and a ton of financial issues. Just about anything that could induce serious stress in life is her daily reality. I think Yelling was just a release for her, but it became verbal abuse. When you are that angry and yelling, you are not always able to monitor the words coming out of your mouth:(

 

She hated herself for it and would call in tears. She wanted to stop but didn't even know where or how to begin. Honestly, most of the stress relievers and options were simply out of her reach. She didn't have a car, couldn't get away, no support, you can imagine the stress.

 

So it came down to 'just stop yelling.' That was just too much of a task:(. She would wake up vowing not to yell, but by the mid-morning had lost the battle. It really was a cycle of yelling/shame/self-loathing...which made everything worse. What finally worked was this: she set a timer for one hour. In her mind she just had to make it without yelling for an hour. Then she would feel great, and reset the timer. Tackling it in smaller blocks made the whole thing more resonable.

She also wore a rubber band on her wrist and would snap it if she felt herself start to get that angry, just to remind herself to breath and look at the timer.

The timer thing and the rubber band are actually both in that DBT workbook I linked. Good coping techniques,

[EmmaNZ]

I just set my timer  :001_smile:

[wendyroo]

Quick question.

 

Do you (the general you), as a gentle parent, feel you have the right to sometimes feel exasperated with your kids...and with other people in general?

 

If so, do you think there is value in your kids knowing when their behavior, particularly their "poor citizenship" (destruction, violence, lack of cooperation, rule breaking, general pestiness, etc) is causing feelings of frustration and annoyance in those around them?

 

If so, how do you gently, quietly, with no negative emotions get that point across to them.  Especially, how do you get that message across to an ASD kiddo who does not read facial expressions or social cues that would clue him in to how others' are feeling?

 

For example:

Peter and Elliot and I were working on phonics at the table.  Elliot went to the bathroom and a couple minutes later called for me to come help him.  I told Peter to keep working on his EtC page and that I would be right back.  I came back about a minute later and found that Peter had spent the time ripping pages out of Elliot's LOE Foundations teachers manual.  When I entered the room, Peter was not angry or sheepish or anything else.  In fact, he didn't even stop ripping when I returned.

 

How would you respond gently, but also in a way that conveyed how seriously pissed off I was?

 

Wendy

[Slache]

I don't believe in yelling. I'm not a gentle parent though.

 

I find that taking care of myself prevents me from unnecessary anger. Bible, prayer, exercise, fresh air, good food, wine, teA.

 

I also find that in my frustration that stopping and praying with my kids is good. Mommy is not doing well and needs help. They take that seriously.

[Jenny in Florida]

This remained a work in progress for me the whole time I was actively raising my kids. However, I found the thing that helped me most was to consciously reframe my goals in interacting with them. Instead of focusing on what I wanted/needed a child to do or to stop doing at that particular moment, I tried to step back and think about (a) what kind of person I hoped that child would become in the future and (b) what kind of relationship I hoped to have with that adult.

 

The days when I could keep my eyes on those two long-term goals rather than getting distracted by the in-the-moment "Mooooooooom, he won't stop poking me!" whining were much better days for all of us. Thinking of the day-to-day challenges in those big-picture terms actually reduced the stress I felt right then and helped me think clearly about how to respond.

 

As I said, it wasn't a magic pill. I still blew it and yelled many more times than I like to remember. But it was the only approach I found that felt authentic and meaningful for me and that actually worked to make me both feel and behave more like the mom I wanted to be.

[mamaraby]

My tipping point was a third, unplanned pregnancy. Honestly, two children was probably my actual limit of what I could handle with the emotional and mental resources I had available. The stress (and probably depression) of coping with an unwanted pregnancy took me a very long time to get over. Step one was getting premanent birth control to limit family size and eliminate that worry from the equation. It wasn't nearly enough, though. I think if I had found better coping skills then I could have probably skipped the next thing I did, but hindsight, eh?

 

Then, as a way to free up more mental/emotional resources for me and help me reset things, I put my kids in public school for a year. I didn't volunteer. I didn't participate in a bunch of school activities. I focused on a bunch of stuff *I* liked to do and left the educating to someone else. It wasn't even all that bad, but I didn't have enough of anything to go around and I knew it would get worse if I didn't do something to change it.

 

We homeschooled again the following year and it went much better than it had before. I felt like a new person and had more of me to go around. Then it became a matter of maintaining my balance. One of my kids had problems dealing with his anger so a lot of what I do to deal with the yelling issue works to help him deal with his anger in a more productive fashion because both really are an anger issue.

 

We -

*Get regular physical activity. Dh and I run. The kids ride bikes, swing, jump on a trampoline, play soccer, etc.

 

*Have an anger thermometer on the wall in the dining room. We check in periodically with "What number are you right now?" followed by "How can I help?"

 

*Established "We use gentle touches and gentle words on ourselves and others" as the family rule and talk about that. A lot. Anyone in the family can remind another family member of this rule.

 

*Identified triggers so we can be mindful of the things that really get to us. I know my kids better now and knowing that helps me better anticipate and deal with things that pop up in our day. I can also identify how I'm feeling before I reach my limit and do something to change that before I reach the "need to let off steam" stage.

 

*Got a hobby (quilting) and joined the local guild for that hobby. My mom and I joined together. Once a month I go somewhere without my kids and hang out with my mom and a bunch of other people who also happen to quilt. This hasn't happened as much lately, though, because of childcare issues.

 

*Got up off my a** a lot sooner to deal with things before they got to the "out of hand" stage. Worked with the kids on learning how to mediate their conflicts. We talk through a bunch more stuff. It takes longer than me just yelling at them to "knock it off," but they bicker less and have started doing some of that on their own. This helps control the general volume in the house which in turn helps me and cuts down on my triggers (see above).

 

*Learned to let go. Messes happen and as much as I hate cleaning them up, yelling at my kids because of that stress doesn't really stop messes from happening. Similarly, kids sometimes break things. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes by accident and yelling doesn't really address any of those things. So for the second, I learned to say, "accidents happen" and figure out if I could fix it (because money is tight and I can't replace everything). For the first, we talk about consequences and using our brains to think things through before acting which may also include restitution.

 

*Breathing, parental timeout, waiting to respond (not everything requires an immediate response), counting to 10 (or 100), mindfulness, anger/frustration/disappointment narration

 

*Randomly say "potato" when things are threatening to boil over. It started as a key phrase we could say to help diffuse what was going on with one of my kids. Now everyone says it if another family member is reaching the boiling point. It's funny. We laugh. It gives the person in question a chance to flip on that rational part of the brain that gets shut down.

 

*Changing things up. Leaving the house and going somewhere (the park, the library, bowling, swimming, etc). Eating a cheap meal out so I don't have to do dishes or think about meal prep. Staying home, but not doing whatever it was we were doing. Let's watch a movie. You kids go play with Legos in the basement. Mandatory recess (you kids go play outside). Let's have popcorn and smoothies for dinner.

 

*Changing my expectations. What's developmentally appropriate in this situation? And even if it's developmentally appropriate, does my kid have the skills/tools for that? Am I expecting too much of this child at this time?

 

Above all, I remind myself (often) that everyone (including myself), wants to do well and will do better provided that they have the tools and support to enable them to do so. Knowing that, what can I do to help make that possible?

 

It's not perfect. I'm a work in progress that still messes up. I don't have to feel guilty about that. I remind myself of this often.

[luuknam]

My wife gets hangry (angry when hungry), so trying to make sure she eats before she's too hungry is one of the things that helps in preventing yelling (and worse). Which is easier said than done, fwiw.

[elegantlion]

I was that sensitive kid growing up. My mom and my sister clashed and fought, mom yelled at her. My dad could go from calm to irate in a flash. My mom prayed to God to remove her anger toward my sister. We were pretty little when it stopped. My dad was never scary, but you didn't get in his way when he was mad. 

 

Ex was like my dad, zero to mad in a flash. He would yell sometimes. He would also calm down and apologize to ds. I rarely yelled. I am the talk through it, be logical person. If I felt like yelling, I'd give myself a time out. Sometimes make myself go the bedroom and pace, or cry. 

 

I may have read it here a long time ago. When you're child reflects back on their homeschooling days, will the only thing they remember well is you yelling? 

 

I was that kid who spilled glasses, accidentally broke things in store, and I made a decision never to be upset by those things when my son did them. I still hate carrying trays with liquids like in a cafeteria. 

 

I also apologize to ds if I've yelled at him. I wait until we're both chilled and then we discuss it. He's very stoic and logical, those conversations appeal to him. Also, I feel like when I'm yelling in anger that everyone is watching. In fact the last time I remember yelling at ds was a few years ago, we were both frustrated, and right outside the window was the electric man coming to read the meter. I felt horrible because we rarely yelled and someone had heard our exchange. 

 

I am an emotional person and when I feel anger happening I try to deflect it. I take a walk, I hit my punching bag (great workout tool!), or I put on some music (usually hard rock or metal). I also realize when I'm angry that it's usually a reflection of me, something off (like little sleep), big decisions ahead (feeling unsure), or having to do something uncomfortable (dealing with issues via phone or mail). 

 

 

[Joanne]

I will be answering both as a mom and a professional. As a mom, I was a yeller eventually reformed.

 

There are many real and valid reasons I ended up a yeller and stayed one for as long as I did. Reforming doesn't change that; those were still understandable paths to dysfunctional parenting. That doesn't change that it was dysfunctional parenting.

 

2 things had to happen for me to stop yelling:

 

1. I had to admit yelling = poor parenting. No buts. No excuses. No "but I am not yelling anything bad" or "it's the only way to get their attention."
2. I had to admit it was a habit - one I created, allowed, continued. It is not unlike rage (and, in fact, it is very much  LIKE rage). I chose to yell, and to continue yelling.

I also had to escape my marriage in order to reform. My marriage prevented and excluded adequate self care. There was no way I could adequately transcend the barriers of that situation to reform from yelling. I hope that is not the case for participants or interested readers here, but I am putting it out there because it was my reality. Life was HARD after my divorce, but I emerged a better parent by intention and being able to access and sustain changes.

 

Some practical ideas:

 

I had to know who I was on the introvert/extrovert continuum. I had to know who my kids were. I had to know those of us on the extremes. And I had to make intentional plans to balance all that so that each of us had the maximum ability to re-fuel.

 

Learning love languages helped tremendously.

 

I was fortunate that I already had changed - in theory - my parenting philosophy. I already knew that cuddles are not coddles and that playful, positive parenting did not create spoiled, out of control children. I had already learned (and taught!) that boundaries, rules, guides, and controls can exist without arbitrary punishment. Some people may have to revisit parenting theory and developmental info.

 

I had to learn my triggers. Common triggers in parenting include: noise, mess, demands/neediness, physical interaction, level of activity. I had to make decisions based on that info. For example, I implemented "toy rotation" in which I limited access to toys, and rotated them out by day or week. This helped a LOT because clutter around me made me miserable and edgy.

 

Knowing who in your family, especially and including yourself, is sleep or blood sugar sensitive, is imperative. I am blood sugar sensitive and my worst parenting moments were when I was on the verge of getting sick. I have one who is sleep sensitive and one who is blood sugar sensitive.

 

I had to intentionally create many moments of affection and positive interaction. At the beginning, I had to set a timer and make it a point or a "thing" on my to do list.

 

Regular spirituality practice helps: Early on prayer helped (I was a Christian then). Later, meditation and gratitude helped. Not as a first aid tool, but as a pro-active part of my life. (Meditation re-wires the brain over time and is research supported in creating many positive life changes).

 

Unabashed self care - letting go of parenting ideals and scripted identity. This included moving away from some of the mantras of "attachment parenting" and "homeschooling." I realized that for me, it wasn't "enough" to be a mother. That I had a right and access to being a complex, multidimensional human. And I pursued that with a vengeance. I became a much, much better parent as a result.

 

One awesome practical, every day thing I did was create "hearts" with my kids. A we made a heart of construction paper, and wrote a love letter to each other on it. We then cut the heart, and each of us kept one. The half heart was to be presented to me when the child felt in need of 10 focused, nothing else, minutes of my time. I committed to honoring the heart. And I did. They did not abuse the heart option.

 

Therapy helped. Working through common thinking errors helped me as a mom and person. (I take nearly all my clients through them.) Working through Adult Children of Alcoholic issues helped. Going back to AA meetings for me helped (as soon as I was able to access that; it was fairly elusive in 2nd marriage for different reasons.) I had the sobriety down for years and years but needed additional support.

 

I have to go, and I may have more later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When Anger Hurts Your Kids: A Parent's Guide.

 

 

[Zoo Keeper]

Thanks for starting this thread.  :bigear:

 

The atmosphere here at the zoo needs to change--things have been crazy (physically, financially, emotionally), and we are all starting to come a little unraveled...  :banghead:  :boxing_smiley:  :biggrinjester:  :blink:  :ack2:

 

I appreciate everyone's transparency in sharing triggers and coping strategies.

[SKL]

Disclaimer:  I still yell sometimes.

 

Some things that help me feel more sane as a mom:

• Take better care of myself.  Sleep, eat, do a little yoga, keep my work space neat....
• Try to inject humor into things.  Or at least perspective.
• Try to remember when I was their age.
• Try to take a moment to plan my reaction.
• Try to remember that this is a potential teaching opportunity, i.e., teaching the kids how to deal with frustration.
• Get it out, but then stop and show the kids how people can calm themselves down.

I think there are some limited times when yelling might be the best alternative available.  Like it or not, kids will remember a yelling better than a mild correction.

[AimeeM]

I'm very interested in this thread, so I'm going to take the (very real) chance of being chewed out and ask for help... since I've been told by my youngest's EI that if she's truthful, she would have to say that she doesn't have much advice for me, as she feels like we've tried "everything".

 

I yell at Marco (DS3). A lot. I didn't yell (at all, really) prior to our beautiful Flying Marco. As his therapists have said, at this age and at this stage in his delays, we're basically in survival mode... we just try to make it through the day without a broken bone or swallowed *something* (coin, whatever).

 

I do not yell at him, or feel angry/irritated/upset when he's in the midst of a violent tantrum. At those times, when he's lost control and is trying to launch himself into the nearest door or wall, my heart breaks for him and I have no desire to yell. I do what I know works (hugs work beautifully at those times, if you can gain control of his body in such a way that it doesn't potentially cause more harm, mid-tantrum). So this isn't an issue - we have a team working through this (and his speech/sensory issues) with us, and those situations do not apply to this thread, because nobody is yelling :)

 

I generally only yell when he's in a good mood. To me, that sounds absolutely ridiculous. Who yells at their kid when the kid is in a GOOD mood? I do.

When Marc is in a good mood, he is... mischievous (to put it mildly). He will snatch drinks from counters and bathe things that shouldn't be bathed in the drink, or he will pour them on the bedroom floor to make "puddles" - to jump in, then slip in, and hurt himself (obviously hurting himself isn't the intent here, it's just what happens when one pours liquid on hardwood floors and then jump in them); he will climb to snatch a cupcake - not to eat, that's boring - and proceed to paint every surface he can find in icing. He's a smart kid, and he knows that if mom is in the bathroom, or has her back turned to stir dinner, he has approximately 3 minutes to do what he wants to do, and good Lord - what that child can do in 3 minutes! 

If I keep him within sight (like when I'm in the kitchen, so I put him in the living room, which I can see from the kitchen), he'll say my name, I turn to see him across the house, he grins and jumps on the back of the couch, or starts climbing the bookcase, or the entertainment center (or SOMETHING) and grin at me. If I say "Marco. Get. Down" slowly, deliberately, and calmly he takes it as "Hurry! I have only a few moments before Mom swoops in!" - if I yell, though, it's the same, so it isn't like it fazes him at all either way. 

 

The other night I screamed "Please, just SHUT UP!" from my bedroom to his, before breaking down and sobbing, when he had woken up just as I dozed off - for at least the third time that night already. I'm exhausted; he sleeps only a couple hours consecutively before waking up, and if I don't go to him when he wakes, he tantrums, and when he tantrums, he hurts himself. There's no way to completely Marco-proof the boys' room because I can't remove the walls. Most days I run on about 4 hours of (broken) sleep.

 

Regardless, that was just me venting. This isn't to ask how to fix his behaviour - we know that he has sensory issues and a serious speech delay which frustrates him. We know that he's brilliant (well, that's what the evals say, right before the inevitable "... but" that precedes the sensory, processing, and verbal delays). We know we're doing everything we possibly can in that arena.

 

I'm asking how I can fix MY behaviour. That I'm exhausted isn't a good excuse to yell at him. Not only does HE have to live with that, but my other kids (and my husband) have to as well. I went from a serene, joyful Mom, to a jittery (I literally live on coffee these days), tearful, yelling Mom.

 

And I Do. Not. Like. Myself like this. At all. 

 

I've over-analyzed myself to know that I yell when I'm scared, most of the time (there are exceptions, like the other night, but they are rare). I've over-analyzed myself enough to recognize that as soon as Marco wakes up in the morning, there's a small flutter in my stomach that is just barely recognizable as panic. His version of "play" is so often of the variety that there's a probability (vs. a possibility) he'll hurt himself, and that's the only play he's interested in.

Yelling doesn't help, though. 

[Joanne]

I think there are some limited times when yelling might be the best alternative available.  Like it or not, kids will remember a yelling better than a mild correction.

 

Personally, I had to eliminate this thinking in my parenting paradigm. I have found it to be a false premise. In the mind of a yeller, it can be damaging and abusive.

[OH_Homeschooler]

I'm always trying to do better. I feel bad when I think of some times when I lost it. Like years later I feel like apologizing for some incident, which most likely the kid has forgotten about. 

 

But one strategy is just simple self-awareness. I KNOW my hormones make me extremely irritable before my period. So I try to remind myself when I'm beginning to feel out of control that it's just the hormones. I try to allow myself extra time (I get most irritated when we're trying to get out of the house on time, I think), and remind myself that whatever is happening is not really that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. I may distance myself, or just tell DH he needs to take over when he's around. He understands. 

 

Sometimes just having a sense of humor about something. If a kid is having a tantrum, rather than letting it get the better of me, I may have a mock tantrum right back at the kid, which gets them laughing and really diffuses things.

 

And as others have said, we're trying to just lower the volume of our home in general. We are limiting screen time, which cuts down on noise and having to yell to get the kids' attention when they're focused on whatever. No more yelling for someone across the house...we are able-bodied so we can just walk to the person.

[SKL]

I realized that I was taking for granted that my son "should know how to stay calm". Well, that doesn't come easy or intuitively for him. So I will say something like this:

 

Situation: I overcooked my eggs.

 

"I am disappointed with how these eggs turned out. It's frustrating that they aren't the way we like them. Well, we can add some sausage and make them a bit tastier. That will work. We will make them again tomorrow and I bet I won't make that same mistake."

 

Is it a big deal? No. Does it need to be said aloud? Not for most people. But for my kid it shows him flexibility, changing plans, shifting gears. Obviously, that's a pretty stripped down example but the same principle works for more complex situations and I have found it soothes not only him but my younger son and myself.

 

I do this as often as I have the opportunity with my kids.  I feel like it's important for them to see how adults act like adults when stuff gets difficult.  (Even if I've started the scene by acting like a 2yo.)  Besides being a teaching moment, it helps me to get past (vent) the mishap in a better way than saying "F F F" or whatever else comes to mind.  :P

[LucyStoner]

Aimee, big hugs and no judgment. You to some degree live in a crisis mode and are giving your all to do right by your child.  We forget, when we are in the day to day thick of it that it is EXHAUSTING.  It's so hard to see a child hurting so much and to not know if or when he will improve or what to do for him all the times when nothing seems to work.  It makes perfect sense to me that after holding it together for the most stressful times for him, your irritation and stress would  bubble up in happier, calmer moments.  You are in mom go mode when he's having a hard time.  You put your VERY best out there for him because you are an awesome mom and you care deeply for him.  But the stress you take on in those moments is real and still there, so when his need isn't as great, it tumbles out.  

 

For me, seeing a therapist to work though the fears and stress and constant "on" state we were living in for my son with autism was really key, besides any self care and such.  I didn't really want to or think it was necessary but as my husband pointed out, we were bending our lives around to get our son the help he needed and there was no shame in needing a little professional help for ourselves.  I don't need to go all the time anymore but having someone to talk to every month or so just to check in and be able to voice the things I can't say to my son is really valuable.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

I didn't read all responses.  I think one "tactic" is to not be too hell bent on always being right and asserting that you have the ultimate authority over your kids because you are the parent.  You have to let go of that sometimes.  If you send your kid to their room 100 times and they keep leaving and then you respond by screaming and locking them into their room, you have not won.  You have not "fixed" it.  You need to try something else altogether.  I had to do that with one of mine.  I hated when he would scream and cry.  So I tried to make him go to his room and do it.  He would not stay.  He kept screaming and crying even if I yelled at him to stop.

 

So I let him scream and cry.  I didn't force him into his room.  Yes it was hard for me.  Over time, he did it less.  Now he never does it.  He is able to tell me what is wrong.  I could have instead engaged in a constant power struggle and who knows what the result would have been. 

 

 

[AimeeM]

God, I wish I had the time to see a therapist sometimes, lol. 

We're between regular sitters right now, though. We're using a service for occasional sitters, but I hesitate to use them any more. Marco doesn't react well to caregivers changing (his last sitter started nannying full time for another family and is taking college classes, so she isn't able to sit any more)... and, if I'm honest about it, I don't trust many people with him. What if they lose their temper with him? What if they don't know that what looks like an innocent toy can quickly turn into something so much *more* with Marco? 

 

The good news is that most of the mischief I yell about, or cry about, at the time, I laugh about now. Like the "skating" incident. His OT at the time had brought a body-board thing on wheels for him to lay on or sit on and scoot (sensory). When she left, he decided he *had* to try it himself... with the boys' toy cars... standing up... didn't end well, I was horrified, but now... I can giggle about it. If we make it through these years alive, I'll have some stories for his future wife (and their children, when THEY pull such stunts). 

 

Dh is fond of telling me to "laugh, because if you don't, you'll cry, so just laugh, Dear". He's probably right.

 

ETA: I don't mean for it to sound like this is ALWAYS the way he is, because that isn't true. I would say that about 50% of the day is fine... but those are generally the times when I've handed him a table to play with, or that I decide I'm not going to *see* that he stole a pencil and is happily drawing letters and numbers on his bedroom wall (after all, a Magic Eraser fixes that, AND it buys me 10 minutes of not worrying about what else could be keeping him quiet and "content"). He's perfect when he has a set of blocks that he hasn't seen in a while, so maybe I need to start rotating them more consistently - he loves blocks! Lol.