Exactly who is a homeschooler? What qualifications does your support group have on who can join?

[Bambam]

With the proliferation of schooling options, what qualifications does your homeschool support group have to join exclusive of any statement of faith?

 

We are in TX, where our homeschools are consider private schools and there are no requirements regarding reporting, testing, days, etc. 

 

Do you consider online full-time K12 users to be homeschoolers? Is your answer the same if they have to work so many hours/day, so many days/year, and go to the local public school to take the state mandated tests?

 

Several local Independent School Districts offer totally online schools as well. Are these students homeschooled? 

 

What about public charter schools?

 

Does your group have a definition of homeschooler? If so, please share!

[Ms.Ivy]

The homeschooling group I am a member of does not include students who are enrolled in public school, even if it's a home study ("homeschool" charter) program.  There are a LOT of public charter school families in my area who consider themselves homeschoolers.  I can understand why, since the mom does the teaching and the kids are at home.  But they still answer to a school official, whereas independent homeschoolers don't answer to anyone.  Charter school families get support from their charter school, so I think it makes sense to have a group that only supports families who aren't enrolled in a government-funded school.  

[mom2att]

In my group if you consider yourself a homeschooler, so do we. Our purpose as a group is to offer encouragment/support to families who have their kids at home for educational purposes, regardless of government's involvement.

[Renai]

In my group if you consider yourself a homeschooler, so do we. Our purpose as a group is to offer encouragment/support to families who have their kids at home for educational purposes, regardless of government's involvement.

 

Our group is the same way. Everyone is included, as they need support too. We even have families that are considering homeschooling that either have kids in school already, or aren't old enough to start.

[fairfarmhand]

In my group if you consider yourself a homeschooler, so do we. Our purpose as a group is to offer encouragment/support to families who have their kids at home for educational purposes, regardless of government's involvement.

 

This is our group.

 

ETA: you do have to have at least one child in Kindergarten or older. "preschooler" homeschoolers have to wait a year or two. Our sponsoring church also has a MOPS group that we direct the moms of younger kids too.

 

[Dmmetler]

We let anyone join who wants to join, but most of the activities won't work for families who just have preschoolers and below because they're pegged to a specific skill level. We don't exclude based on method of schooling. You can even join if you have kids in PS (we have one family with the kids in PS due to child care reasons, but who regularly pull their kids from school when there's something that fits the parents' work schedules and who get a lot of curriculum advice and support from the group. They'd homeschool if it were at all possible) -but if you have too much time blocked out for school during the week, you're going to find it difficult to participate much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rutheart]

We include K12 and other at-home charters. Frequently, they're just used as a transition period between brick and mortar public school and traditional homeschooling. It's better to have an open arm policy, so you don't give a bad first impression.

Ruth

[SparklyUnicorn]

I've never been in a group that cared any which way. They were even open to kids who were not homeschooled.  Sometimes parents only homeschool some of their kids.  We did not exclude their siblings.  Meeting times wouldn't generally work out for kids in a traditional school situation, but there was no explicit rule against them joining.  And I don't see why there should be.

 

 

[SilverMoon]

.

Edited September 23, 2023 by SilverMoon

[Wabi Sabi]

I've never been in a group that cared any which way. They were even open to kids who were not homeschooled.  Sometimes parents only homeschool some of their kids.  We did not exclude their siblings.  Meeting times wouldn't generally work out for kids in a traditional school situation, but there was no explicit rule against them joining.  And I don't see why there should be.

Same here. Open to all. 

[Farrar]

Agreed with the above. Support groups shouldn't get too caught up in this sort of thing. There may be a need for legal distinctions between people enrolled in online options and people actually teaching their kids with their own choice of curricula, but in terms of the need to find enrichment and socialization and figure out how to make the day work, the support needs are really similar.

[TarynB]

I don't care for this rule, but the only support group in my local area defines homeschool as parent-driven, in terms of curricula choices, AND parent-funded. So students who learn at home with online publicly-funded programs are excluded from the support group (not parent-driven nor parent-funded). Students who attend Classical Conversations or private blended-model schools (2 or 3 days per week) are included in the support group (not parent-driven but are parent-funded).

 

ETA - Again, not saying I agree with it, but that's the rule here. They say it has to do with not wanting to start blurring the lines and the potential implications for future legislation and regulation of homeschooling at the state level.

 

This support group also apparently has an "unofficial" problem with single-parent homeschoolers. Ugh.

 

Personally, I agree with you, Farrar and other PPs, that support groups shouldn't get so uptight about this, because social needs are similar for everyone.

[OneStepAtATime]

I don't know about all of the groups here, but the small one we do the most with doesn't even ask.  If you show up with a kid and want to participate, you are welcome.  They don't care how you educate your child/children.  Just be respectful of other members, keep your kid from pummeling other kids and you are good to go.  

 

However, I know one of the larger groups has verbally expressed disdain for those who have kids enrolled full-time in things like K-12.  I don't know if they have a policy in place for excluding anyone based on educational resource choices, though.

[momto2Cs]

In my group if you consider yourself a homeschooler, so do we. Our purpose as a group is to offer encouragment/support to families who have their kids at home for educational purposes, regardless of government's involvement.

 

Our group is the same way. Everyone is included, as they need support too. We even have families that are considering homeschooling that either have kids in school already, or aren't old enough to start.

 

:iagree:  Our homeschool group includes any family who is, has been, or will be homeschooling, whether independently (the majority), or through an ISP, or charter. I've always liked that it is all inclusive, as I think all homeschoolers, regardless of the how-they-do-it bit, should be supportive of each other.

[JenneinCA]

The only requirement for our support group/ park day group is that you show up.

[MinivanMom]

Our group is open to anyone homeschooling or thinking about homeschooling. We have had many public schoolers join over the years. I mean real public schoolers who send all their kids off to a brick & mortar school everyday (there is no charter homeschooling in our state). It's a reassuring thing for them to see what all is going on in the homeschooling community before making the plunge.

 

I have one friend who belonged to our homeschool group for an entire year (while sending all her kids to public school) before letting her membership expire. She has never homeschooled, and I'm not sure she ever will (due to some extenuating life circumstances).I'm glad she could join and see what was going on while she was considering it.

[Ms.Ivy]

I don't think the fact that our group is only for privately schooling families is seen as a big deal in our area, because the homeschool charter programs are so big that they comfortably do their own thing.  The charter schools have their own field trips, enrichment classes, teacher support, etc.  I can't join in with my friends' field trips and such because I'm not part of their charter program, and they can't join in on my group's trips and Spell-a-Thons, either because they're part of a different program.  There are so many groups here that's its really not an issue.  I could see that it might be in a smaller community, though.  

[Targhee]

I am in two groups - one is open to about anyone, as long as they are prompt, courteous, and not flaky. The other follows a specific educational methodology, so you need to want to be a part of the group otherwise you'll just be frustrated with what's going on.

 

 

My definition is broad - anyone who chooses to instruct at home for some or all of the school day/year.

 

Why is it that when we choose an alternative path out of the boundaries of tradition, oppose the tradition if you will, that we are quick to draw new bounds about ourselves?

[Targhee]

I do understand some of the frustration, from a legal standpoint, of calling people enrolled in public charter/virtual/umbrella schools homeschoolers - it's a foot in the door for government to regulate homeschooling, which is violating the very reason many traditional homeschoolers began homeschooling.

 

However there are ways around this: public-supported homeschooler, independent homeschooler, etc can be teased out to make a distinction in terms of the law and requirements. But why exclude them from your group??

[Renai]

This is our group.

 

ETA: you do have to have at least one child in Kindergarten or older. "preschooler" homeschoolers have to wait a year or two. Our sponsoring church also has a MOPS group that we direct the moms of younger kids too.

 

There aren't a lot of organized preschool activities like MOPS, or so it would seem. We don't mind preschool families because many of our homeschool families also have preschoolers. There used to be an organization that promoted the idea of, basically, "catch them while they're young" and being mentor families. I guess I caught on to that idea.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I don't care for this rule, but the only support group in my local area defines homeschool as parent-driven, in terms of curricula choices, AND parent-funded. So students who learn at home with online publicly-funded programs are excluded from the support group (not parent-driven nor parent-funded). Students who attend Classical Conversations or private blended-model schools (2 or 3 days per week) are included in the support group (not parent-driven but are parent-funded).

 

ETA - Again, not saying I agree with it, but that's the rule here. They say it has to do with not wanting to start blurring the lines and the potential implications for future legislation and regulation of homeschooling at the state level.

 

This support group also apparently has an "unofficial" problem with single-parent homeschoolers. Ugh.

 

Personally, I agree with you, Farrar and other PPs, that support groups shouldn't get so uptight about this, because social needs are similar for everyone.

re: bolded ... Double Ugh!  That doesn't sound much like a support group if they withhold support from the people who may need it the most. 

 

I've only been involved with groups where the only requirement is an interest in homeschooling.  People with preschoolers only, parents who are thinking of pulling their kids out of school, parents who have sent their kids to school but want to hang out with friends they have made ... all are welcome.  Some activities were geared for certain ages, so those with youngers (or olders) simply didn't attend.  But, then again, I live in a low-reg state with no reporting requirement, and we are de-facto private schools.  So, there is no issue with blurring lines because these groups (which provide enrichment, support, and socialization) have no legal standing.  They are not cottage schools.  They are not legal entities.  Even the co-ops do not have this requirement because they are simply a source of academic (or extracurricular) content, not a school.

[Renai]

There aren't a lot of organized preschool activities like MOPS, or so it would seem. We don't mind preschool families because many of our homeschool families also have preschoolers. There used to be an organization that promoted the idea of, basically, "catch them while they're young" and being mentor families. I guess I caught on to that idea.

 

Quoting myself here, lol.

 

Here's the link I was talking about http://www.homeschoolingfamilytofamily.org/index.htm.

 

It hasn't been updated in years, but they used to put out information about mentoring families, bringing in families of preschoolers, etc. 

[73349]

If you show up at two o'clock with a kid and a five-dollar bill, there you are. But we don't have a lot of the hybrid things that go on in other states anyway.

[SeaConquest]

I've not heard of any homeschool groups here that make a distinction. All are welcome.

[Bambam]

I appreciate everyone's input! Thank you for taking the time to post!

 

[Farrar]

Quoting myself here, lol.

 

Here's the link I was talking about http://www.homeschoolingfamilytofamily.org/index.htm.

 

It hasn't been updated in years, but they used to put out information about mentoring families, bringing in families of preschoolers, etc. 

 

I wish more people wouldn't get uptight about letting in preschool families as well for support groups and park day groups. I've seen many people on this board claim they had "bad experiences" with preschool parents "using them for socialization" and then not going on to homeschool. (How dare they!  :001_rolleyes: ) but our experience was exactly what you say - there was a community and so most of those families who wanted to homeschool did - it really is a get them while they're young thing.

[mamakelly]

 Charter school families get support from their charter school, so I think it makes sense to have a group that only supports families who aren't enrolled in a government-funded school.  

 

I hate it when groups have rules like this. Those who use charter schools need support just as much as the independent schoolers do. I get some "support" from my charter, but I value the input from outside friends just as much.  

[HS Mom in NC]

The state of AZ does not recognize anyone using a taxpayer funded online program homeschooling.  They are legally registered as public school students or public charter school students.  Parents cannot legally sign and turn in a homeschooling affidavit while enrolled in online public or public charter schools, they have to choose one or the other (or the private school document.)  The legal distinction exists so it's clear who is subject to mandatory testing and who is not.  Homeschoolers (legally defined as those with a signed homeschooling affidavit on file) are not subject to mandatory testing or attendance laws. I think the state is smart to keep things clear and distinct because it's the fuzzy stuff that creates problem for people.

I wish the state would legally recognize, define and protect public and private outsourcing (a la cart, part time and full time) just in case there are any potential problems brewing as it gets to be more popular.  I think there are community schools and private schools that could benefit by using and creating some outsourcing options for kids who are enrolled in them and who aren't enrolled in them.  Everyone could benefit from it.

 

I don't consider people who use online school to be homeschooling, it's outsourcing.  I think there's a huge difference in someone online teaching academic concepts in each subject to someone else's child (outsourcing) and the parent teaching academic concepts to their own child (homeschooling.)   When I have outsourced a part of my child's education to someone else to teach the concepts to my child, I have mentioned that I homeschool subjects A, B, C, D, and I outsourced E and F. I consider video instruction and teaching type textbooks outsourcing whether those sources are taxpayer funded or not.

 I don't think outsourcing is a bad thing or lesser than homeschooling, so I'm happy to give credit where it's due and accurately represent what I do and what I don't do.  I want to send the message to other homeschoolers that outsourcing is our friend and it's to utilized as needed or preferred without apology or negative connotation.  I think lumping it in with homeschooling (which is about parent teaching, not location) muddies the waters.  Yes, I'm aware that there are personality types who are prone to take offense at pointing out differences and assume people have unspoken negativity toward differences, but you can't go around catering to it.

 

 

Most groups here don't ask and don't really care if you're outsourcing with taxpayer funded online public or public charters  There are some groups that do care and are only open to legally recognized homeschoolers. I'm not about to scold them for it.  I consider every single homeschooling activity to be a private party and the host can send invitations to anyone they choose.  I would no more scold someone about the guest list to their own party.  If they choose to only invite co-workers or neighbors or family or a mixture, that's up to them.  They're under no moral obligation to invite every single person. 

 

I have very low tolerance for homeschoolers who are unwilling to start their own groups to meet their own needs.  I've BTDT.  I know people who have BTDT. They shouldn't expect someone to do for them what they're unwilling to do for themselves.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think it is the prerogative of the individual group to accept members based on whatever details they want, but that wouldn't work well around here because there just aren't enough homeschoolers to be that picky. 

 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

 

This support group also apparently has an unofficial problem with single-parent homeschoolers. Ugh.

 

What does that mean?  How do you know?  I've been homeschooling a long time now and I've seen things portrayed as "policy" or "group culture" that were really two people loud mouthed people making comments that didn't represent the group as a whole.   I'm not saying there aren't group dynamics and that it's never true that a group is anti________ but I'm amazed at how fast some people are to assume that annoying loud mouth is the measure of the dozens of people around her not making those sorts of comments. So, while I know it's possible this is the case, I'm just as aware of the fact that this may not be true at all. My experience is, it usually isn't true.

 

Examples include:

 

anti-OE

anti-creationsim

anti-attachment parenting

anti-rigor

anti-mythology

anti-non-Christian

anti-Christian

anti-school in a box

anti-unschooling

anti-non-schooling

anti-homosexual

anti-taxpayer funded outsourcing

anti-dating (courtship only)

anti-secular music and non-G rated movies

anti-Harry Potter

 

Of the above, when asked about it, the ones that were true were anti-taxpayer funded outsourcing, (in two of the groups) anti-OE, (it was a creationist based science co-op) and anti-dating (no dating among the teens because they were all part of the courtship culture.) The others were just someone jumping to conclusions.  Like the woman who told me secular co-op was anti-Christian.  Nope.  They just wouldn't let her lead everyone in prayer before the meal because it was a secular co-op.  That's not anti-Christian.  She can lead her own kids in prayer any time she wants. Anti-mythology was a few parents having a discussion about why they didn't do mythology with their kids-it had nothing to do with the group.  That's usually how most of these things get started.  I think we may be reduced to start having disclaimers to end these rumors that pop up: "The views of the participants in this group are those of the individuals and do not represent the group as a whole."

[SkateLeft]

I don't care for any group that doesn't allow charter school families or public school ISP families to join and personally won't support those groups. I refused to do it in CA, where I lived for 20 years, and I refuse to do it here in the Midwest.

 

I'm an independent homeschooler.

 

I know that many families who start educating their kids at home do it by utilizing public school options, at least initially. They may need to do that in order to keep an ex-spouse happy, or because they have to work full-time or because they don't feel secure in their own abilities to teach their kids. While those programs are not my choice, those families will never have the opportunities to build social connections if they're excluded from homeschool groups. They may never learn about all the other options available to them and may not have the support to make the leap from utilizing public school options to independent homeschooling.

 

I'm in favor of extending support and encouragement to everyone educating at home, regardless of how they choose to do it.

 

[idnib]

I consider video instruction and teaching type textbooks outsourcing whether those sources are taxpayer funded or not.

 

This caught my eye.

 

What do you consider teaching-type textbooks? Ones that "speak" directly to students, like AOPS or WWS?

 

What about the transition from parental involvement to self-sufficiency, but working at home with books, not outside materials? If a driven high school student s working their way through Campbells' Biology with no input from the parent, do you consider that outsourced because Campbell's is a teaching-type textbook?

 

Also, how would you describe a hybrid course? For example, what would you say if your student was doing a class that was partly video instruction, partly textbook,and partly parental teaching?

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely asking. I just see so many shades of gray.  :)

[shinyhappypeople]

Our group doesn't make any distinction.  I started as a charter-homeschooler and eventually became independent.  My *only* peeve about having so many charter families in the group is that charter-homeschooling is viewed as the default.  That's annoying.

 

I think charter families walk a tight rope: socially they're homeschoolers, legally they're public schoolers.  There IS a difference between charter-homeschooling and indpendent homeschooling and I am sick-to-freaking-death of people acting like there isn't.  BUT for the purposes of things like park days and field trips.... who cares?  

[fairfarmhand]

There aren't a lot of organized preschool activities like MOPS, or so it would seem. We don't mind preschool families because many of our homeschool families also have preschoolers. There used to be an organization that promoted the idea of, basically, "catch them while they're young" and being mentor families. I guess I caught on to that idea.

 

The reason for the exclusion is for space and childcare reasons. Our monthly meetings include moms off in one building while kids attend classes etc in another building. It's hard to find adequate care just for the school age kids and the babies/toddlers that are siblings of those school aged kids.

 

We don't exclude siblings of school aged kids, but because of logistics, it was just hard to include everyone. This group is a bit more than just a park day.

 

[HS Mom in NC]

This caught my eye.

 

What do you consider teaching-type textbooks? Ones that "speak" directly to students, like AOPS or WWS?

 

Yes, I used WWS and I consider it outsourcing because I'm doing the bulk of the instruction. 

 

What about the transition from parental involvement to self-sufficiency, but working at home with books, not outside materials? If a driven high school student s working their way through Campbells' Biology with no input from the parent, do you consider that outsourced because Campbell's is a teaching-type textbook?

 

Yes, I also outsourced Cothran's Logic series and never considered myself to be the one teaching logic at that stage.  I didn't do the explaining and demonstrating.  Now the earlier logic resources I used I did the explaining and demonstrating before they went to using the books, so I would tell people I taught logic in my homeschooling.

 

Also, how would you describe a hybrid course? For example, what would you say if your student was doing a class that was partly video instruction, partly textbook,and partly parental teaching?

 

Like what? I can't think of one.  If I have to explain the concepts and demonstrate them and answer the kid's questions, then I consider myself teaching it.  I teach Math U See because I've had 2 kids who weren't able to watch the 3 minute demo and work independently.  They needed me to explain it different ways and demonstrate it different ways and they needed supplemental materials that had no written or video instruction to the student in addition.  My middle watched the video and did it without any assistance at all from me so I tell people I outsourced her math with video instruction.  My husband taught them math at the Jr. and Sr. High school and some college levels and he didn't use any video or written instruction-he taught each concept himself. 

 

Then we outsourced to community college for my middle at 15+ because she was taking a high school level English class there along with the rest of her college level classes.  We issued her homeschool diploma when she finished that high school level English class her first semester of community college.  Our oldest had a homeschool diploma when she started community college because she finished all her high school level classes in our homeschool and took only college level classes at community college, so we didn't use the term "outsourced" because she was just a college student who had already graduated from high school. 

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely asking. I just see so many shades of gray.  :)

 

I didn't think you were being argumentative. I know what you mean. I notice the endless explanations that are required when newer people ask more experienced people what they're doing because the words are getting fuzzier and fuzzier.  It seems to me more precious and a positive attitude toward clearly defined and labeled options clears up the confusion and I hope it makes people who planned to only homeschool in the strictest sense more comfortable with the idea of variations on outsourcing (whether they choose to in the future or not) while at the same time avoiding any potential legal problems that can come from lumping different groups together with a fuzzy label. 

 

Around here, there are segments of homeschoolers who see outsourcing as categorically bad and I don't want to inadvertently send that message by someone accidentally associating me with that attitude.  There are lots of different options.  Having lots of options is a good thing.  Different is good.

 

[HS Mom in NC]

Our group doesn't make any distinction.  I started as a charter-homeschooler and eventually became independent.  My *only* peeve about having so many charter families in the group is that charter-homeschooling is viewed as the default.  That's annoying.

 

I think charter families walk a tight rope: socially they're homeschoolers, legally they're public schoolers.  There IS a difference between charter-homeschooling and indpendent homeschooling and I am sick-to-freaking-death of people acting like there isn't.  BUT for the purposes of things like park days and field trips.... who cares?  

 

Around here many groups and field trips have to be capped due to size.  I know some people reading that have a hard time imagining it, but there are groups here with more than a hundred member families.  In my county there are just under 10,000 homeschooled kids. 

 

Park days don't usually matter, but if it's a confined space ( a house, a church facility) there are laws about maximum occupancy and similar practicalities that factor in depending on the location.  Some will limit to the legal definition of homeschoolers to keep the numbers down.  Some also cap numbers because they specifically want a smaller group where people with a more intimate dynamic that can't happen with big groups. They also tend to be "shop talk" oriented groups where discussing teaching techniques is a main source of conversation, so they keep it to homeschoolers who are doing the teaching themselves. 

 

Curriculum/philosophy  based co-ops and groups (Konos, Circe, etc.) would by nature sort out those using online school and any homeschooler using other materials and approaches.  Sometimes when people say, "I can't join that group because I do online school." They're not being accurate.  They can't join that group with people they like at a time and location that works for them because anyone using any other curriculum can't join. I knew of an English co-op that was a college prep class run by a former English professor that required a freshman to have 4 years of Latin completed to sign up.  So, the moral to the story is, yes, sometimes what someone is telling you can be taken at face value and sometimes there's more to the story than you are hearing from them.

 

Some online charter programs have their own support groups and activities.  I don't think those are open to legally registered homeschoolers who don't do online school, but I could be wrong, so correct me if I am.

 

[yvonne]

. They say it has to do with not wanting to start blurring the lines and the potential implications for future legislation and regulation of homeschooling at the state level.

There's one home school group in our area, as well as a 3 day a week "hybrid" home school/school school, that excludes anyone who has anything to do with any sort of public charter, etc., even if one agrees with their statement of faith. Apparently one's politics trump one's status as a Christian.

 

I think this attitude is due to the hype and pressure from HSLDA.

 

One of these days I am going to write a letter to Mike Smith/Farris at HSLDA and ask him if he realizes the damage the HSDLA is doing to the community of Christian home schoolers by pushing for the separation of the "real" home schoolers from the "public schoolers at home." He must really believe private home schooling is at great risk if he's willing to drive a wedge in the very community he supposedly supports. I can't imagine he and the HSLDA would do/say some of the things they do if they were out in the field where they saw the damage.

[MysteryJen]

 

 

Some online charter programs have their own support groups and activities. I don't think those are open to legally registered homeschoolers who don't do online school, but I could be wrong, so correct me if I am.

 

Online charters have their own support groups and field trips here. They are not open to students not enrolled. I think that is why some groups have made the distinction between different kinds of homeschooling.

[HS Mom in NC]

There's one home school group in our area, as well as a 3 day a week "hybrid" home school/school school, that excludes anyone who has anything to do with any sort of public charter, etc., even if one agrees with their statement of faith.  Apparently one's politics trump one's status as a Christian.

 

I think this attitude is due to the hype and pressure from HSLDA.

 

One of these days I am going to write a letter to Mike Smith at HSLDA and ask him if he realizes the damage the HSDLA is doing to the community of Christian home schoolers by pushing for the separation of the "real" home schoolers from the "public schoolers at home."  He must really believe private home schooling is at great risk if he's willing to drive a wedge in the very community he supposedly supports.

 

HSLDA cannot legally represent people who use public or public charter schools online because the laws in many states don't recognize people who use public or public charter schools on line as homeschoolers. My state doesn't. So the distinction is critical in this type of situation.  Laws that apply to legally registered homeschoolers don't apply to the kids enrolled in public and public charter schools online.  Online students are  legally registered as public or public charter school students.  Most of the laws (other than physically attending) apply the same to the brick and mortar public and public charter schools kids and to the online public and public charter school kids.

[idnib]

Like what? I can't think of one.  If I have to explain the concepts and demonstrate them and answer the kid's questions, then I consider myself teaching it. 

 

I guess I have Great Courses on my mind due to the Audible sale.  :)  I was imagining a high schooler watching a history great course for 50% of the content, reading associated books assigned by the parent, writing papers on the videos and assigned books graded by the parent, and taking the parent's exams. I was wondering if you would consider that "outsourcing history" or something else.

[HS Mom in NC]

Oh, I've come across a few more on your list, mostly in conservative Christian groups, where some of these attitudes tend to correlate.

 

Weirdly enough, the Harry Potter thing was a big deal a while back. Bizarrely, dd15 lost friends over it.

 

It's funny how some people can hear one thing and be sure they're assumptions are right, but actually be completely, totally dead wrong.

My older kids are of the age where they had to wait years between the release of each Harry Potter book.

 

When the 5th or 6th book was released we were attending a homeschooling group.  The leader of that group  announced that under no circumstances was an Harry Potter talk allowed. Everyone enthusiastically agreed.  Someone new muttered something to me assuming these were religious fanatics.  I had to correct her.  "No.  This group is open to everyone and highly populated by unschoolers because technically, it's a secular unschooling group.   It's understood here that many of these kids are die hard fans who got the Harry Potter books at the stroke of midnight and are currently binge reading  it and will then handed it off to a sibling to read next.  Some of these families have several members who want to read the book and don't want to hear any spoilers before it's their turn.  Kids sometimes have a hard time discussing a book without letting spoilers slip in their excitement.  So, to avoid the anger that comes with hearing a spoiler, it's a hard and fast rule here after a new release not to do any Harry Potter talk at all until everyone who is dying to read the book has had a chance to do so after their siblings have. One meeting later on the leadership will ask those attending if everyone who wants to has had the chance to read it and if everyone has, we'll get the green light on Harry Potter talk. Also, the Harry Potter Party is at ________'s house week before Halloween every year. Everyone will get an invitation by email-keep your eyes open for costumes early in the fall."

 

So again, I strongly caution people to be very careful before making assumptions.  If you hear about a policy that bothers you, do not assume the worst.   Just ask the person in charge or the host for clarification.  You may be right on the money.  You may be completely wrong.

[HS Mom in NC]

I guess I have Great Courses on my mind due to the Audible sale.  :)  I was imagining a high schooler watching a history great course for 50% of the content, reading associated books assigned by the parent, writing papers on the videos and assigned books graded by the parent, and taking the parent's exams. I was wondering if you would consider that "outsourcing history" or something else.

 

If it were my kids in my house and I did that I would say I was outsourcing. 

[Farrar]

HSLDA cannot legally represent people who use public or public charter schools online because the laws in many states don't recognize people who use public or public charter schools on line as homeschoolers. My state doesn't. So the distinction is critical in this type of situation.  Laws that apply to legally registered homeschoolers don't apply to the kids enrolled in public and public charter schools online.  Online students are  legally registered as public or public charter school students.  Most of the laws (other than physically attending) apply the same to the brick and mortar public and public charter schools kids and to the online public and public charter school kids.

 

HSLDA can represent whoever they want. They choose not to. Which is fine. Their mission is for independent homeschoolers, but there's no law against them taking whatever cases they like.

[yvonne]

 

Nm

[HS Mom in NC]

HSLDA can represent whoever they want. They choose not to. Which is fine. Their mission is for independent homeschoolers, but there's no law against them taking whatever cases they like.

 

OK.  I thought the state representative I heard speak said "couldn't" but maybe it was "wouldn't." I think it would be insane to call yourself Homeschool Legal Defense Association and then get involved with public and public charter school families.  They really would have to change the name.

 

There is the whole, if-you-don't -like-what-the-pubic-or-public-charter-school-does-or-the-way-they-do-it- then-don't-take-their-taxpayer-funded-services arguments to hammer out. Homeschoolers started their own legal defense with HSLDA so I guess there's nothing stopping both brick and mortar and online public and public charter school families from starting their own legal defense that specializes in issues directly related to them.  Anyone know of one already in existence?

 

HSLDA irritates me when they get involved with "family" legislation that isn't directly related to homeschooling.  When I pay for my legal insurance with them as a homeschooler, I wish those funds only paid employees to deal with legal homeschooling issues but as usual in life, you can't everything exactly the way you want it.

[HS Mom in NC]

Um. I was IN this group. My daughter was shunned for her Satanic Potter reading ways by several families in that group.

 

I didn't assume anything.

 

Not all homeschool groups are benign.

 

~

 

OT, I think it's nuts to make divisions between those who homeschool with their own materials and those who use funded materials.

People LOVE to create in-groups and out-groups.

 

Not gonna play that game in any of my groups. How you educate your (general) child is your business. I don't get to be the True Homeschooler Police.

 

I think you missed the generalness of my post.  I'm not arguing that your personal situation was different than you thought, I'm pointing out to a large audience here at TWTM boards, reading on this topic,  that there can be times when homeschoolers are right about people's motivations (like stated in my post) and there are times when people make assumptions that are wrong and it's a completely opposite climate.  When they don't go actually have any feedback about their assumptions, they don't really know. Often they go spreading their assumptions to others and give misleading information. 

 

Also, I've posted multiple times on this thread that there both kinds of groups: benign and problematic ones.  I've personally witnessed both and mentioned both in this discussion.

[dirty ethel rackham]

 

I don't consider people who use online school to be homeschooling, it's outsourcing.  I think there's a huge difference in someone online teaching academic concepts in each subject to someone else's child (outsourcing) and the parent teaching academic concepts to their own child (homeschooling.)   When I have outsourced a part of my child's education to someone else to teach the concepts to my child, I have mentioned that I homeschool subjects A, B, C, D, and I outsourced E and F. I consider video instruction and teaching type textbooks outsourcing whether those sources are taxpayer funded or not.

 

 

Whether I outsource everything, teach everything at home, or use a combination of methods and sources ... if I am issuing the diploma, I am homeschooling.  In my state, I am my own private school. 

 

The public school down the street sometimes uses online content providers if they don't have enough students signed up to take a class, but they still wish to offer it.  That student is still attending the public school.  If I use outside providers, I am still homeschooling.  That is how the colleges looked at me.  That is how I look at it.  If you feel like you have to make distinctions, go to town.  I really can't be bothered.

 

HSLDA cannot legally represent people who use public or public charter schools online because the laws in many states don't recognize people who use public or public charter schools on line as homeschoolers. My state doesn't. So the distinction is critical in this type of situation.  Laws that apply to legally registered homeschoolers don't apply to the kids enrolled in public and public charter schools online.  Online students are  legally registered as public or public charter school students.  Most of the laws (other than physically attending) apply the same to the brick and mortar public and public charter schools kids and to the online public and public charter school kids.

HSLDA could represent them if they wanted to.  There is nothing that legally prevents them from doing so.  It is not like they have only passed the "homeschooling law" bar.  If they are lawyers who can practice in that state, they could represent anyone they wanted to.  They CHOOSE not to. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

double post - sorry

[happypamama]

Our group is open to anyone who wants to join (and pay dues). We are a Christian group. We do not ask that you believe anything in particular, but we do require that you not contradict us, and you don't get to argue with us praying before events and such. We do have people in our group who do not profess to be Christians, and it hasn't been an issue.

 

Most of our members are traditional, parent-led, parent-funded homeschoolers. A few are former teachers, so they technically fall under the private tutor option; they may look the same as me in daily practice, but they don't have to worry about portfolios or standardized tests. We also have some who use cyber schools, and we are happy to have them as well. If we ever had space limitations, the cyber schooling families would be lowest priority (because some of our events fulfill state requirements for our non-cyber families, whereas the cyber families have those requirements met by their organization), but it has not been a problem. We love our cyber school families and are thrilled to see them whenever they're able to join us! (And we encourage them to tell us about times when they do happen to be available, so we can at least keep that in mind when we plan.)

 

We exist to meet the needs of parents who do not have their children in brick and mortar schools. We don't care if you unschool, cyber school, take some online classes, take a class at the local community college, play sports for or take art at the local high school (this is legal in our state), create everything yourself, buy Abeka workbooks, use everything Peace Hill Press ever wrote, or any combination of the above. We all share one goal: supporting each other in our parenting and educational journeys.

[happypamama]

Also, we have a large number of children who are under eight (mandatory age for school in our state, not five or six). Several families have only children under eight. We have events for all ages. Sometimes we have had co-op classes, where there is a class for everyone, from birth to twelfth grade. Sometimes we have park or gym activity days, where everyone can play however they choose. Sometimes we have field trips that appeal to younger children, and sometimes we have field trips that appeal to older ones. We won't turn you away if you are intending to homeschool but only have preschoolers. We have a mom now who has just one very adorable toddler, and she comes when she can; her little one plays with my toddler and the other toddlers, and I like that they're making friends now. Our state can be a little overwhelming at first, so we are thrilled when we have prospective homeschooling moms of preschoolers ask us questions. So they might decide not to homeschool after all? Okay, it happens. Sometimes parents homeschool for a while and then decide on high school at the public school. Sometimes families move away. Sometimes they decide to drop all outside activities for a while. Whatever. It's sad when friends disappear, but that's life.