SKL Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I dunno, my sister has a lot of German Shepherds and that has always inspired a lot of people to stop and ask questions and chat. I don't see why one has to be in a dog park to talk about dogs. I think it is a little scary to think of the direction we're going in when people are instructed to avoid encounters (with anyone) on the public streets. I have daughters in the neighborhood and I want men to interact with them just like any other person. How else will they learn the range of normal male behavior? The weirdos are more likely to try stuff in private, not on the public road (with or without a big dog looking on). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikin' Mama Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 So what advice should moms be giving their growing sons? Don't ever speak to a female who might be under 20, even from a distance in public, even about something as benign as her own dog? Or else the entire neighborhood will be calling the cops on you and you'll be pegged as a sexual predator? I'm curious to know when it *is* OK for a young man to speak to a young lady he does not know. I think I'm hearing "never." I guess a lot of us would not be here today if that advice were followed. I mean, yeah, "I like talking to dogs," not the best pickup line ever. But not panic inducing. In this context, the man's behavior was inappropriate and I think you know that. Here's how my 20 yo son (19 at the time) felt about a situation involving his sister and an older man, who was probably in his late 20's. Dh, dd, dil, and myself were on an airplane returning home from a trip. My dd (17yo) was sitting next to dil and I was on the other side of the plane just a bit behind them. A man, who like I said was in his late 20's, kept turning around to talk to my dd. he kept asking her questions about herself. She handled herself well and kept repeating that she was in high school. I didn't like it at all. When I relayed the story to my son and told him that I kept trying to make eye contact with the man to give him evil looks, my son told me I should have forgotten the evil looks and used some evil words. :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I personally don't think it's a good idea to discourage a 15yo from walking her (large, protective) dog because there are men on the street who talk from their car windows. :iagree: Although I do think stopping his van in the street to talk with your daughter was odd, I don't think she should be discouraged from walking her dog. I wouldn't want her to be afraid to do it again. These types of incidents help to reinforce the idea that we need to be aware of our surroundings and other people while walking. When I was a young preteen/teen I was out walking with a friend when a car stopped in the street and yelled something. We didn't respond and kept walking. The guy got out and told us to get in the car. We started running and screaming. I have no idea if he chased us or not. It didn't stop me from walking with friends, and it never happened again. Hopefully, this was an isolated incident that won't happen again. Just have her keep a watch out for that van and have a plan in case she does see it. I'm afraid that avoidance will reinforce fear. :grouphug: Kelly 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 It does happen in public places. I had a man come up to me in a store inside a mall once, put his hand on my back and complement my figure. I'm not sure I was even 16 yet. He was probably mid-20s. There are places to meet someone, and places not. Stopping a VAN next to someone who is walking is always a NOT. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenC Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 :iagree: Although I do think stopping his van in the street to talk with your daughter was odd, I don't think she should be discouraged from walking her dog. I wouldn't want her to be afraid to do it again. These types of incidents help to reinforce the idea that we need to be aware of our surroundings and other people while walking. When I was a young preteen/teen I was out walking with a friend when a car stopped in the street and yelled something. We didn't respond and kept walking. The guy got out and told us to get in the car. We started running and screaming. I have no idea if he chased us or not. It didn't stop me from walking with friends, and it never happened again. Hopefully, this was an isolated incident that won't happen again. Just have her keep a watch out for that van and have a plan in case she does see it. I'm afraid that avoidance will reinforce fear. :grouphug: Kelly I agree the girl should not be discouraged from walking the dog. Encounters like this should be used as a learning situation. Now she knows what to watch out for and to always be aware of her surroundings. What a scary thing to happen to you! Thank goodness you were and your friend were ok. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I agree the girl should not be discouraged from walking the dog. Encounters like this should be used as a learning situation. Now she knows what to watch out for and to always be aware of her surroundings. What a scary thing to happen to you! Thank goodness you were and your friend were ok. It was really bizarre. I wonder now if it was just some college guys trying to scare us. I still get a little nervous on overcast days when there isn't anyone else walking around. That day was a holiday, maybe Memorial Day. It was overcast and seemed more deserted in town than usual. This thread has reminded me to keep talking to my kids about being aware of surroundings while walking. Kelly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I wanted to echo the suggestion that it the job of a citizen to provide information and the job of the police to decide what to do with it. I had a situation a couple of months ago where I observed something in a parking lot that set off my creep-o-meter. I started to talk myself out of concern, but I just had such a bad gut feeling that I decided to trust it. I called the nonemergency police number and started with a "this is probably nothing and I didn't know if I should call..." The operator quickly reassured me I did the right thing to call. She dispatched immediately. Turns out they'd had other reports and this is somebody they were looking for. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 :iagree: Although I do think stopping his van in the street to talk with your daughter was odd, I don't think she should be discouraged from walking her dog. I wouldn't want her to be afraid to do it again. These types of incidents help to reinforce the idea that we need to be aware of our surroundings and other people while walking. When I was a young preteen/teen I was out walking with a friend when a car stopped in the street and yelled something. We didn't respond and kept walking. The guy got out and told us to get in the car. We started running and screaming. I have no idea if he chased us or not. It didn't stop me from walking with friends, and it never happened again. Hopefully, this was an isolated incident that won't happen again. Just have her keep a watch out for that van and have a plan in case she does see it. I'm afraid that avoidance will reinforce fear. :grouphug: Kelly I agree. It was odd behavoir. I live urban and there are weirdos out and about. I do think the vast majority of them are just weird and have boundary issues. I don't change how I operate day to day because of it and I wouldn't discourage a 15 year old who may be off at college in a few years to not be developing independance because of it either. I think this altercation showed your daughter is capable and it turned out fine. Being aware of your surroundings and knowing where is safe to walk are good life skills. I *might* report something like that to a non-emergency line or I might post about it on our neighborhood news group. Like a few years ago there were reports on our neighborhood group of a strange young man in flamboyant clothing dancing and singing in the parks during the day. Turns out he's autistic and homeschooled and that was a treat for him to be able to walk to the park on his own. He looked like a young adult. It was a good way of resolving something like that and now our neighborhood kind of looks out for him. Sometimes the police will get a series of reports that might turn out similarly. Or if the police recieve a series of reports like this, it's a pattern and they can act accordingly. Or he might just be overzelous about dogs. Who knows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I think the dog had a very good creep-o-meter. Give that dog a bone! 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I get where SKL is going, but my dh has been taught (by his dad) that women alone can feel threatened when approached by men alone. So he has just avoided approaching total strangers who are female. No matter how old or young or cute or unattractive they are, he doesn't want to frighten or be perceived as trying to intimidate them. Such is the nature of being a woman. And because some men do try to intimidate or scare ladies, even the nice guys have to guard their behavior least they be perceived as a threat. Even if they aren't trying to threaten or scare a woman, a woman alone can be rattled by an interaction with a man. (I know this firsthand, and in my case, I am glad I listened to my gut. The guy who approached me was a genuine creeper who ended up murdering his wife.) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Then shouldn't that also be true for women? Feeling so sorry for my dad right now, and all the young females he's not allowed to say "hello" to. :/ Didn't any of you have positive interactions with men when you were teens? You jump to some amazing landing places. No one said "crime." No one said "don't say hello." I imagine my oldest son (20 next month) and my Dad (85?) in June strike up conversations with people often. In line at the grocery store, waiting for an oil change, etc. But to stop a solo girl/woman randomly in the street while in a moving vehicle? Um, no. ETA: Do you sincerely believe this stuff, or is your discussion style propensity to adopt the outlying perspective? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 You jump to some amazing landing places. No one said "crime." No one said "don't say hello." I imagine my oldest son (20 next month) and my Dad (85?) in June strike up conversations with people often. In line at the grocery store, waiting for an oil change, etc. But to stop a solo girl/woman randomly in the street while in a moving vehicle? Um, no. ETA: Do you sincerely believe this stuff, or is your discussion style propensity to adopt the outlying perspective? :iagree: Maybe someone should start a poll and ask, "If an adult male stranger stopped his van in the middle of the street to talk to your teen dd, what would you tell her to do?" I'm thinking, "Run!" would be a popular choice, and that "He's probably just a nice guy who is looking for a date" would be way down the list. I don't mean this in a snarky way, but I really do hope that SKL is teaching her dds better survival skills than, "strange men approaching you in vans is no big deal." 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I think the dog had a very good creep-o-meter. Give that dog a bone! :iagree: (I'm all out of likes! :)) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I walk and run with my dog all the time (with a dog that is much less scary-looking than a GSD), and people stop their cars to chat with me several times a year. They will compliment my dog, ask what breed she is, tell me about a dog they had that looked just like mine, etc. One guy stopped to tell me about recently seeing a dog hit exactly where I was--the car came off of the street and hit the dog who was being walked by his owner on the right-of-way. I've had many people ask me if I've seen their lost dog or ask for directions. I don't go up to the car but stand a respectful distance from the door, but I have never felt threatened in any way. The barking thing is weird, but I wouldn't necessarily ascribe nefarious purposes to this person based solely on that. I woof at my dog or even howl at her once in a while, in jest (she appreciates a good joke), and I'm not out to harm anyone else's 15 yo daughter (just my own, to listen to her). People can just be weird about dogs. I would shrug and chalk it up to that. I'm wondering if this post should have been labeled "JAWM." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikin' Mama Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 If an adult male stopped his van to talk to me, a 47 yo woman, about my dog, I don't think it would be appropriate. That doesn't mean he shouldn't chat with me in the grocery store line. However, I'm still not comfortable with strange men who are overly friendly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflections Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 I walk and run with my dog all the time (with a dog that is much less scary-looking than a GSD), and people stop their cars to chat with me several times a year. They will compliment my dog, ask what breed she is, tell me about a dog they had that looked just like mine, etc. One guy stopped to tell me about recently seeing a dog hit exactly where I was--the car came off of the street and hit the dog who was being walked by his owner on the right-of-way. I've had many people ask me if I've seen their lost dog or ask for directions. I don't go up to the car but stand a respectful distance from the door, but I have never felt threatened in any way. The barking thing is weird, but I wouldn't necessarily ascribe nefarious purposes to this person based solely on that. I woof at my dog or even howl at her once in a while, in jest (she appreciates a good joke), and I'm not out to harm anyone else's 15 yo daughter (just my own, to listen to her). People can just be weird about dogs. I would shrug and chalk it up to that. I'm wondering if this post should have been labeled "JAWM." Yours (post) isn't the only one to infer what you're saying here...but I just wanted to address it.... Had the guy pulled up and said "Hey, nice dog. I had one like that once". Or "What a cutie. And the dog's not bad either". Or "Hey some dog got hit right here, watch yourself" or "I've lost my dog. Have you seen an loose dogs around here?" I wouldn't have batted an eyelash and neither would my dd (shy or not). If she were at the dog park by herself and some guy stood next to her and started a conversation, no one would think twice. Standing in line at the grocery store, waiting for me to pick her up downtown after fencing, at the mall in the bookstore or Gamestop... all appropriate places to start a conversation or try out your latest pick up line. As for me and my family barking at our dog... well, yeah, Hoagie can be real talker, so we all do that with him quite regularly. We even have it recorded as it's so darn cute. BUT I triple dog dare anyone here to randomly drive around in a dark colored van, catch a woman by herself walking a dog, pull up alongside her, tell her you like to bark at dogs and then actually, BARK AT THE DOG! I want video or it didn't happen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflections Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 I think the dog had a very good creep-o-meter. Give that dog a bone! Honestly, Jean, Hoagie needs to be in 12 step program regarding milkbones. He's been, very uh, persistent in his need for them. We've been limiting them to 3 a day. How about a hamburger instead? He'd really like that! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I would report it because something similar happened to me when I was a child. A week later a guy of the same description & same car tried to kidnap two girls who were a year older than me. He got caught and went to jail. He got out 15 years later and later got convicted for raping and murdering another little girl. Cops should know. And even if this guy is just weird, a story like that could give them probable cause if they're investigating him for another crime. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I think the dog had a very good creep-o-meter. Give that dog a bone! :iagree: I believe the dog! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zydruna Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I agree that a man stopping a car in the middle of the street to talk to a young girl is inappropriate. It would have set off tons of alarm bells for me and I am glad that your dd had the dog there with her. Discussions like this always remind me of this blog post from a while back: http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 To me it's just really strange that a guy pulls up IN A VAN and tells your daughter he likes to talk to dogs. I love dogs, but would never stop someone on a street and tell them I like to talk to them. Very strange, on several levels, at least in this day and age. I would say that big, protective GSD earned a lifetime place in your home for keeping your daughter safe. :grouphug: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Yours (post) isn't the only one to infer what you're saying here...but I just wanted to address it.... Had the guy pulled up and said "Hey, nice dog. I had one like that once". Or "What a cutie. And the dog's not bad either". Or "Hey some dog got hit right here, watch yourself" or "I've lost my dog. Have you seen an loose dogs around here?" I wouldn't have batted an eyelash and neither would my dd (shy or not). If she were at the dog park by herself and some guy stood next to her and started a conversation, no one would think twice. Standing in line at the grocery store, waiting for me to pick her up downtown after fencing, at the mall in the bookstore or Gamestop... all appropriate places to start a conversation or try out your latest pick up line. As for me and my family barking at our dog... well, yeah, Hoagie can be real talker, so we all do that with him quite regularly. We even have it recorded as it's so darn cute. BUT I triple dog dare anyone here to randomly drive around in a dark colored van, catch a woman by herself walking a dog, pull up alongside her, tell her you like to bark at dogs and then actually, BARK AT THE DOG! I want video or it didn't happen. Then why did you ask? If your mind is made up, and you are just going to disagree with any opinion that disagrees with yours, what was the point of asking for thoughts? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zydruna Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Then why did you ask? If your mind is made up, and you are just going to disagree with any opinion that disagrees with yours, what was the point of asking for thoughts? When I read the OP I got the impression that she already knew it was weird/inappropriate and had the potential to be a dangerous situation had the dog not been there. I heard her asking whether others believed it to be something that should be reported to the authorities. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 ETA: Do you sincerely believe this stuff, or is your discussion style propensity to adopt the outlying perspective? Yes, I am truly shocked that so many people consider it dangerous for a 15yo to be spoken to by a male adult (about her dog) on a public street. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 One of my dogs is super cute. I've had people in cars call out to tell me so. Guys, even. This isn't the same thing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I don't mean this in a snarky way, but I really do hope that SKL is teaching her dds better survival skills than, "strange men approaching you in vans is no big deal." As a matter of fact, I do teach my daughters that they SHOULD speak to strangers. They shouldn't go off with them as in going into their vehicle, house, or backyard, but they should interact. Strangers are far more likely to help them out than to hurt them. Besides, people are designed to interact with one another. It is strange to restrict this arbitrarily. What young girls in a sane upbringing have been taught to do if approached by a stranger in a vehicle? Keep walking. Act like you are moving along with purpose. Avoid eye contact if you want the person to leave you alone. If he starts pursuing, scream and run. Run to a neighbor's house if you're that scared. Nowadays a 15yo could also whip out her cell phone, take a photo of the guy in his van, dial 911. Perhaps pull out pepper spray or be prepared to use martial arts skills to kick his butt if necessary. And of course, having a big dog would offer even more options. I will also teach my kids that when they are teens, some teens and young men are going to look at them with interest, and teach them ways to let them know their interest is not reciprocated. And ways to let them know that my kids are not easy targets. Just like I was taught. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 BUT I triple dog dare anyone here to randomly drive around in a dark colored van, catch a woman by herself walking a dog, pull up alongside her, tell her you like to bark at dogs and then actually, BARK AT THE DOG! I want video or it didn't happen. Your OP says he told her he likes to talk to dogs. Not bark at them. "I like to bark at dogs" sounds a lot different from "I like to talk to dogs." To me, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 This hits close to home for me. Our local neighborhood had an issue with a man in a van pulling up and talking to kids who were walking dogs, etc. The kids ran away, but this would happen sporadically for months, and it was discussed on our local groups frequently. It was reported. It culminated in a similar van pulling up to a bus stop and grabbing a girl. She ran away, and there were a lot of kid witnesses (the kids at the bus stop). We received emails about this from our local sheriff's office, and a letter went home from school. FWIW, the kids were middle schoolers so maybe not 15. I don't remember if they caught the man who tried to grab the girl, it's been a year or two, but after that the reports about the man in a van approaching kids stopped. We are not the types to see danger in every stranger, but my kids know not to talk to random people who pull up in cars while they are outside playing. If a driver needs directions or help finding a lost dog, they can ask an adult just as easily as a child outside. I'm not comfortable with teaching kids it's ok to engage with men who pull up in vans, in what sounds like a roadway (not a parking space), even if it makes a man somewhere sad that he can't just pull his van up to say hello to teenage girls and/or their dogs. Sorry, SKL's Dad, you'll have wait till a more socially appropriate moment to talk to my kids, at which point they will smile and talk and probably joke around. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 My dd15 was out walking our 90lb German Shep mix - just through the neighborhood - when a man pulled up alongside her in his van, rolled down the window and told her he liked to talk to dogs. Our dog went into protective mode - howl barking and such - and then the man barked back at our dog, rolled up his window and drove away. So.... what do you think? Talk to or bark at? If he said "bark at," then he was obviously trying to act weird and see what she would do about it. Still doesn't mean he wanted to rape her. As for the *van* - this is being said frequently as if it has great significance. I suppose if he'd been in a mere car it would not have been the same at all? A van is automatically a portable torture chamber? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I still haven't heard how old the guy was (approximately). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflections Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 Your OP says he told her he likes to talk to dogs. Not bark at them. "I like to bark at dogs" sounds a lot different from "I like to talk to dogs." To me, anyway. Really? That bit of nuance: talk vs bark, is the piece you've latched onto? That's what will make this scenario so much different? Take it from a friendly interaction to a creepy one? If you are trying to find holes.. and nitpick... well, that's a bit different for me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Really? That bit of nuance: talk vs bark, is the piece you've latched onto? That's what will make this scenario so much different? Take it from a friendly interaction to a creepy one? If you are trying to find holes.. and nitpick... well, that's a bit different for me too. No, it's just that it seems we are not having the same conversation if you are talking about a guy introducing himself as "I like to bark," and me thinking he said "I like to talk to dogs." If you'd said in your OP that he told your daughter he likes to bark, why, don't you see how that would have come across differently to us? If you'd said that in your OP I would have said "he sounds mentally ill." I still would not have reported a guy for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reflections Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 No, it's just that it seems we are not having the same conversation if you are talking about a guy introducing himself as "I like to bark," and me thinking he said "I like to talk to dogs." If you'd said in your OP that he told your daughter he likes to bark, why, don't you see how that would have come across differently to us? If you'd said that in your OP I would have said "he sounds mentally ill." I still would not have reported a guy for that. Okay. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Wise Bauer Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Um...this thread keeps getting reported. Maybe conversation could continue by PM? SWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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