A father to be very, VERY proud of. . .

[Orthodox6]

http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/dad-refuses-give-newborn-son-syndrome/story?id=28756025

 

I cannot say enough good about this father.  What a beautiful baby, too!

 

[chiguirre]

I think it will work out if he moves back to New Zealand especially if his family will help him out. If he had to raise him in Armenia with no special ed services, no health care coverage, no respite, etc. I think he'd quickly see why his ex-wife was unwilling to take custody. I know it's meant to be a feel good, happy story, but the reality of raising a child with special needs is not a feel good, happy reality, especially for a single parent with little support. What would he do in Armenia if his son needed open heart surgery? If he has severe behavioral challenges? If he can't work because no school will take his son? He's lucky he can go back to New Zealand and ask his parents for help.

[Orthodox6]

I would say, instead, that the father is blessed that he can return to a country where the current culture has resources available to help him raise his son.  I am not the only parent here who has lived for many years with "special needs".  It never occurred to dh and me that we were missing "a feel good, happy reality".  Our reality has been very happy in the "bottom line" sense -- just different from what it might have been.

[Ausmumof3]

Reminds me of the book the Memory Keeper's daughter, I think it was called where the opposite happened. The dad gave up the child and the mum was informed that she had died. It was a pretty sad read. I think it was fiction but based on common practice from the past.

 

It wasn't a fantastic book but made me think attitudes have changed hugely, thank goodness.

[chiguirre]

I am not the only parent here who has lived for many years with "special needs".  It never occurred to dh and me that we were missing "a feel good, happy reality".  Our reality has been very happy in the "bottom line" sense -- just different from what it might have been.

That's great. I'm really glad that you haven't experienced the feel bad, crappy reality that lots of parents of kids with special needs do. I've got one of each so I can see both sides. Lots of parents with special needs kids want to emphasize the positive, wonderful things about their kids. That's all true, but it does overlook the parents who are really struggling to deal with kids they can't handle. There are many parents who are worn to the bone looking after kids with round the clock medical needs or severe behavioral challenges and they're not very happy. It can be a very hard road. I sincerely hope Leo and his dad don't have to walk it.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Why can't we just be happy that a father loves his son?  And be shocked that a mom doesn't - no matter the disability?  The father already realizes the difficulties of raising a disabled child as a single dad even if he's still pretty new at it.  

[chiguirre]

Why can't we just be happy that a father loves his son?  And be shocked that a mom doesn't - no matter the disability?  The father already realizes the difficulties of raising a disabled child as a single dad even if he's still pretty new at it.  

Yeah, Dad! I can get behind.

 

Boo, Mom! Not so much. She's Armenian, she's probably well aware of the realities of raising a disabled child. The dad would really be up the creek if he didn't have a NZ passport and family to go home to.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't think I can support or laud a mother who would toss aside her child no matter how difficult it is.  

[Barb_]

Yeah but...

 

A GoFundMe page? I don't know how I feel about that. It seems to take a nice, feel-good human interest story and nudge it over into emotional manipulation territory.

[Jean in Newcastle]

You use whatever legal means necessary to care for your child.

 

*** As to the realities of dealing with disabled children in countries hostile to disabilities, I've worked with disabled kids - now adults- who were left at the doors of the hospital because they were born with disabilities.  These children were warehoused and families were told that they were stillborn.  Most of them had arms and legs frozen in place because no one did simple range-of-motion exercises with them.  These people lived in pain and misery as a result.  

[8circles]

I'm thrilled with the dad.  I'm disgusted at the mom.  But we also can't be only thinking from our perspective & try to think of hers.  It doesn't get her out of the disgust category for me, but it is very different to have a special needs child in the US vs Armenia.  Despite my disgust I do have to admit that I at least can understand that her position probably seemed quite dire, quite a bit more than it would be for me.

 

I have seen institutionalized children.  That baby's fate in Armenia, with or without it's parents wouldn't be a good situation.  I'm thankful that dad will be taking him to NZ.  

[milovany]

I was just going to post that I'm coming to love GoFundMe.  Earlier this week it was the man who walked 20 or so miles to and from work every single work day for, what was it, 10+ years?  Someone started a page for him hoping to be able to buy him a good vehicle and some insurance.  At last glance, it was $300,000.  Very nice.  I love that so many people give -- just give -- to bless someone.  Now the NZ dad is up to $150,000.  Glad for him. 

[Barb_]

I was just going to post that I'm coming to love GoFundMe.  Earlier this week it was the man who walked 20 or so miles to and from work every single work day for, what was it, 10+ years?  Someone started a page for him hoping to be able to buy him a good vehicle and some insurance.  At last glance, it was $300,000.  Very nice.  I love that so many people give -- just give -- to bless someone.  Now the NZ dad is up to $150,000.  Glad for him. 

 

I agree, but I also I believe there's a difference between someone starting a page on your behalf and starting one for yourself.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I agree, but I also I believe there's a difference between someone starting a page on your behalf and starting one for yourself.

He started it on behalf of his son.  

[Grover]

bring him home

[chiguirre]

*** As to the realities of dealing with disabled children in countries hostile to disabilities, I've worked with disabled kids - now adults- who were left at the doors of the hospital because they were born with disabilities.  These children were warehoused and families were told that they were stillborn.  Most of them had arms and legs frozen in place because no one did simple range-of-motion exercises with them.  These people lived in pain and misery as a result.  

Do you remember the case of the teenagers abandoned in Nebraska when they passed a poorly worded law that was meant to allow parents to relinquish infants? They didn't get any infants, they got a bunch of teenagers whose parents or guardians couldn't deal with them. They had to change the wording of the law to block people from leaving older minors. This happened in America, can you imagine how bad it would be in Armenia?

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/08/nebraska.safe.haven/

 

And to be honest, maybe they should have considered why people were relinquishing teenagers and thought about helping those families out a bit instead of rewording their law to prevent people from embarrassing the state by abandoning teens at hospitals.

[milovany]

He started it on behalf of his son.  

 

Absolutely. 

[Barb_]

I just don't know that a black woman from Chicago  temporarily housed in a shelter with her three school aged kids  begging for pocket change would manage to pull in 300K in a few hours. I think this father is doing a lovely thing, but nothing that women don't do every day all over the world without special notice or hundreds of thousands of dollars coming her way. I don't mean to be argumentative or diminish what this father has done, but the money grab rubs me the wrong way, no matter what the cause.

[Tangerine]

There are probably several illegal enterprises I would undertake if it meant getting my child to a place to get help. Being worried about appearing gauche wouldn't be on my radar.

[Jean in Newcastle]

What no one seems to be pointing out is that this Armenian woman had options simply by being married to this husband from NZ.  But she refused to even talk to him about the issue and not only abandoned her son but abandoned her husband in order to do it.  

[monstermama]

Not to excuse her, but I wonder what the mom knows about Down syndrome.  Based on the dad's story of how the hospital administrators acted, I'm guessing most of the Armenian special needs population is shuffled off to orphanages, and I'm guessing they're not very well funded.  I doubt she's ever met a mainstreamed SN person.  I honestly can't be angry at the mom - based on the hospital staff, there's some serious cultural prejudice against SN people (and probably their parents, too, because obviously something has to be "wrong" with them as well), and those doctors are the people I'm really mad at.  They should know better, and they should be trying to educate parents!  I really pity the mom, though.  I hope she is able to overcome her prejudices before she misses too much of her child's life.

 

I'm glad the dad is willing to uproot his life and move back to his native country for his son.  I guess I don't understand all the fuss, though.  There are thousands (millions?) of parents of SN kids who move heaven and earth every day to help their kids have a "normal" life.  My cynical side thinks that if the roles were reversed and it was the mom and not the dad who was the NZ native, this would never have made the news...

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Not to excuse her, but I wonder what the mom knows about Down syndrome.  Based on the dad's story of how the hospital administrators acted, I'm guessing most of the Armenian special needs population is shuffled off to orphanages, and I'm guessing they're not very well funded.  I doubt she's ever met a mainstreamed SN person.  I honestly can't be angry at the mom - based on the hospital staff, there's some serious cultural prejudice against SN people (and probably their parents, too, because obviously something has to be "wrong" with them as well), and those doctors are the people I'm really mad at.  They should know better, and they should be trying to educate parents!  I really pity the mom, though.  I hope she is able to overcome her prejudices before she misses too much of her child's life.

 

I'm glad the dad is willing to uproot his life and move back to his native country for his son.  I guess I don't understand all the fuss, though.  There are thousands (millions?) of parents of SN kids who move heaven and earth every day to help their kids have a "normal" life.  My cynical side thinks that if the roles were reversed and it was the mom and not the dad who was the NZ native, this would never have made the news...

 

I still think it would be a very big deal (to most of us in westernized countries, anyway) given the actions of the doctors and staff. Add to that the prompt and unapologetic divorce proceedings, and then the GoFundMe publicity, and I think it would still be pretty outrageous and newsworthy. 

[Tsuga]

I don't judge the mom. The cultural knowledge about Down's Syndrome in that part of the world is severely lacking.

 

I also don't judge the dad. It is extremely expensive to repatriate. I have lived overseas in poor countries. You save up what you think is a lot. It is a ton. You live well. You then suddenly need money and your money is gone in a flash.

 

He needs it for his son.

 

Mother or father, I'd feel the same way. I work with people in the ghetto who are looking for child care and survival strategies for their kids. I don't think it's hypocritical for people suddenly aware to want to get this baby out of Armenia with daddy, to a place where it has extended family.

 

I wish the best for all of them.

 

 

 

My cynical side thinks that if the roles were reversed and it was the mom and not the dad who was the NZ native, this would never have made the news...

 

They wouldn't have asked the dad. They'd have asked the mom. No divorce would be necessary because she wouldn't have to extricate herself from responsibility as a woman. You're right--it's different and women get screwed.

 

However, in this case the main difference I see is between Armenia's policy on people with special needs, and the NZ focus on human rights for all.

[Orthodox6]

That's great. I'm really glad that you haven't experienced the feel bad, crappy reality that lots of parents of kids with special needs do. I've got one of each so I can see both sides. Lots of parents with special needs kids want to emphasize the positive, wonderful things about their kids. That's all true, but it does overlook the parents who are really struggling to deal with kids they can't handle. There are many parents who are worn to the bone looking after kids with round the clock medical needs or severe behavioral challenges and they're not very happy. It can be a very hard road. I sincerely hope Leo and his dad don't have to walk it.

I don't know what to say to your apparent assumptions that we have not suffered during horrifically painful and terrifying events, often, over the years. I can say only that such assumptions would be rash and false.

[kiwik]

It often seems hard to get kids out of countries like that though no matter how much they don't want the kid.

 

I have a bit of a problem with fund me etc though. It sometimes seems like the first thing people do when things go wrong is ask strangers for money.

 

Oh and the mother could have come back with him so she did have a choice she just made the choice appropriate to he culture.

[IsabelC]

Good outcome, he does sound like a lovely bloke and I wish them all the very best, but BLECH at the sexism. If the father had walked and the mother had kept the kid, that wouldn't even be news. It would be just what mothers do. But because it's the father, suddenly he's a martyr and a superhero and we're all supposed to worship him.

[beaners]

Some of my children were left at the hospital because of their special needs, sent to orphanages, then to a mental institution with adults as young children. I don't know what Armenia does after a child turns 4-6, when my kids were sent to institutions, but I know their general attitudes are similar. I will tell you that my children grew up in the most horrific experiences any person, let alone a small child, could go through. Children starved to death, confined to a crib through adulthood, tied to keep them in if they were able to crawl out. In another building 30 children and adults with any kind of physical special need, severe mental illness, anything...sitting in an empty room rocking from lack of stimulation. Highly capable children who hardly learned to talk because they were never spoken to, treated like warehoused animals. Abuse from caretakers, other children, the adults they were housed with who had once been children themselves.

 

I rejoice for any child who is spared from that fate, whatever the circumstances.

[Orthodox6]

Good outcome, he does sound like a lovely bloke and I wish them all the very best, but BLECH at the sexism. If the father had walked and the mother had kept the kid, that wouldn't even be news. It would be just what mothers do. But because it's the father, suddenly he's a martyr and a superhero and we're all supposed to worship him.

To a great extent, I agree with your thoughts. The very lower likelihood of a modern father doing this makes him stand out from the crowd and merit praise.

[Murphy101]

Good outcome, he does sound like a lovely bloke and I wish them all the very best, but BLECH at the sexism. If the father had walked and the mother had kept the kid, that wouldn't even be news. It would be just what mothers do. But because it's the father, suddenly he's a martyr and a superhero and we're all supposed to worship him.

This. Given the locale and culture, I don't blame the mother for wanting to survive. I do in the sense that I can't even begin to fathom it, but there's a reason the mothers do it and I doubt it is entirely because they are heartless evil hounds.

 

So where is the discussion about how awful it must be to raise these children there that mothers would be in a cultural norm situation of walking away instead? I suspect the woman can't imagine it is so dramaticly different somewhere else.

 

And honestly, most mothers in so called better countries who get a dx of downs while pregnant abort. I don't see much difference. Either way it's a rejection of a child by a mother.

 

I am thrilled the father is so loving and dedicated and is going somewhere he will find support and help to raise his child. I wish that for every child.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Some of my children were left at the hospital because of their special needs, sent to orphanages, then to a mental institution with adults as young children. I don't know what Armenia does after a child turns 4-6, when my kids were sent to institutions, but I know their general attitudes are similar. I will tell you that my children grew up in the most horrific experiences any person, let alone a small child, could go through. Children starved to death, confined to a crib through adulthood, tied to keep them in if they were able to crawl out. In another building 30 children and adults with any kind of physical special need, severe mental illness, anything...sitting in an empty room rocking from lack of stimulation. Highly capable children who hardly learned to talk because they were never spoken to, treated like warehoused animals. Abuse from caretakers, other children, the adults they were housed with who had once been children themselves.

 

I rejoice for any child who is spared from that fate, whatever the circumstances.

Exactly.  

[Guest submarines]

I don't understand what's the problem wit GoFundme, while there's no problem with money being collected at the end of each Sunday service? At least with GoFundMe everyone is free to donate how much they want (or not to donate at all)  without social pressure, and the money goes directly to the cause. It is wonderful that people are charitable and can choose their own causes. Who asked for the donations is totally irrelevant. If you feel that it is noble to watch your baby suffer while being stuck in a foreign country, and asking for money is a social faux pas, don't donate.

[Laura Corin]

Not to excuse her, but I wonder what the mom knows about Down syndrome.  Based on the dad's story of how the hospital administrators acted, I'm guessing most of the Armenian special needs population is shuffled off to orphanages, and I'm guessing they're not very well funded.  I doubt she's ever met a mainstreamed SN person.  I honestly can't be angry at the mom - based on the hospital staff, there's some serious cultural prejudice against SN people (and probably their parents, too, because obviously something has to be "wrong" with them as well), and those doctors are the people I'm really mad at.  They should know better, and they should be trying to educate parents!  I really pity the mom, though.  I hope she is able to overcome her prejudices before she misses too much of her child's life.

 

In one of the countries where I lived, I used to hear someone crying out (not in distress) in a flat near where I used to work.  It was a 'hooting' noise without words.  One day, the husband of a friend of mine found the mentally disabled young man wandering into traffic on the street.  Everyone was ignoring the young man as he walked in and out of traffic.  He was in danger, so my friend's husband went over to talk to him and managed to persuade him to the side of the road.  The local shopkeeper (when asked - he had not previously intervened in any way) knew where the young man lived and how to contact his mother.  After a while, the mother turned up, very angry and embarrassed (it seemed) that her son had escaped from home and shown himself to the world.

 

L

[Tsuga]

To a great extent, I agree with your thoughts. The very lower likelihood of a modern father doing this makes him stand out from the crowd and merit praise.

 

 

But also note that they didn't even ask his opinion when they made the initial decision... women do get a short stick but imagine if we weren't even considered to be parents. He was lauded partially to shame Armenia but also to recognize that he didn't take on society's (or at least that society's) role for him.

[GinaPagnato]

I also wonder at how much post partum depression combined with lack of knowledge/stigma about SN kids the mom is dealing with.

 

PPD can really whack you out. There were times when I was in the depths that I thought in ways I can hardly comprehend now. So, who knows?

 

Best case scenario: Dad, Mom and baby go to NZ and get the help and support that little man needs. God willing!

[Guest]

I'm thrilled with the dad.  I'm disgusted at the mom.  But we also can't be only thinking from our perspective & try to think of hers.  It doesn't get her out of the disgust category for me, but it is very different to have a special needs child in the US vs Armenia.  Despite my disgust I do have to admit that I at least can understand that her position probably seemed quite dire, quite a bit more than it would be for me.

 

I have seen institutionalized children.  That baby's fate in Armenia, with or without it's parents wouldn't be a good situation.  I'm thankful that dad will be taking him to NZ.  

 

Agreed.  While they aren't in Armenia, I have friends who had a son with Downs in another country, and the treatment they have gotten because of him...even from some family members, has been horrible. I remember telling her about a Downs child I had in our church preschool.  This child was treated the same as any other student. He was expected to follow rules (best he could), just like everyone else. Because we didn't coddle him or treat him differently, the other kids didn't treat him differently either. My friend was shocked to hear that kids with Downs here are very much accepted, and that there is a lot of help available to them and their families. 

 

My friend told me of people calling her son a mongloid...of blatantly showing disgust when they took him out in public, etc. She has family members that are merciless about telling them they were stupid to keep him. He is a beautiful child and they wouldn't change any of their decisions, but their experiences are drastically different than here in the US.  

 

I am not saying the mother was right, but I can see how it is a totally different situation raising a child with a "disability" is outside the US.

[Orthodox6]

But also note that they didn't even ask his opinion when they made the initial decision... women do get a short stick but imagine if we weren't even considered to be parents. He was lauded partially to shame Armenia but also to recognize that he didn't take on society's (or at least that society's) role for him.

I would like to understand better what you said. (takng care of sick family members, so my brain is less clear than at better times) I guess you think well of the man?

 

The Armenians whom I have known took seriously their Armenian Christian religion. I wonder what the country's religion demographics are at present. Christians down to a small percentage of the population? I was shocked at the exclusion of the father, but shocked worse by the wife instantly bailing out of her marriage. Junking both husband and newborn in a moment. She could have emigrated to New Zealand with her husband, as that country sounds to be reasonably hospitable toward people with difficulties.

[monstermama]

The Armenians whom I have known took seriously their Armenian Christian religion. I wonder what the country's religion demographics are at present. Christians down to a small percentage of the population? I was shocked at the exclusion of the father, but shocked worse by the wife instantly bailing out of her marriage. Junking both husband and newborn in a moment. She could have emigrated to New Zealand with her husband, as that country sounds to be reasonably hospitable toward people with difficulties.

 

According to Wikipedia, the 2011 Census lists almost 95% of the population as Christian.  I wonder if the cultural bias is such that they see these kids as not even human?

 

I think it's easy for us to judge the mom and swear we would never do anything like that, but most of us on these boards are so blessed.  We have multiple types of therapies, medicines, respite care, and support groups available to us - and it's still not enough sometimes!  It wasn't so long ago that we were doing the same thing - look at what happened to Rosemary Kennedy.

 

Try to imagine from the mom's perspective. You give birth to a kid who obviously has something "wrong" with him.  Your only knowledge of these kids is of the ones are who sent to orphanages and basically taken care of worse than most Americans' family pets - kept in cages, not able to talk or respond to you at all, etc.  Heck, the doctors are expecting you to give the kid up!  And all you can see in your future is giving up the rest of your life so you can take care of him with no outside help for as long as he lives, probably never having another child, and dealing with the scorn of your family and neighbors.  I can't even imagine the fear and grief she must've been going through.  How would she even know that these kids are taken care of differently in other countries?  If special needs are this taboo in Armenia, I bet she and her husband never even discussed it.  How can we fault her for making the wrong decision when she didn't even know she had a choice? 

 

From the article, it also sounds like the husband was outside the room when the baby was born (side note: that still happens?) and only got to see the child after some time.  Who knows what her first reaction was?  I wonder if others in the room (family, hospital staff, etc) convinced her to change her mind.

[Orthodox6]

Had the original article not clearly been discussing Armenia, I would have guessed the events took place in Romania. We had a friend who adopted three children, none related to each other, from Romania. As the children grew older, the effects of early neglect in the orphanage, coupled with mental illness in two of the children, proved too much for our friends' marriage.

[chiguirre]

Agreed.  While they aren't in Armenia, I have friends who had a son with Downs in another country, and the treatment they have gotten because of him...even from some family members, has been horrible. I remember telling her about a Downs child I had in our church preschool.  This child was treated the same as any other student. He was expected to follow rules (best he could), just like everyone else. Because we didn't coddle him or treat him differently, the other kids didn't treat him differently either. My friend was shocked to hear that kids with Downs here are very much accepted, and that there is a lot of help available to them and their families. 

 

My friend told me of people calling her son a mongloid...of blatantly showing disgust when they took him out in public, etc. She has family members that are merciless about telling them they were stupid to keep him. He is a beautiful child and they wouldn't change any of their decisions, but their experiences are drastically different than here in the US.  

 

I am not saying the mother was right, but I can see how it is a totally different situation raising a child with a "disability" is outside the US.

IME, the US isn't that different. We get stared at every time we go out with GW. We get the occasional nasty comment. I've been looking for afterschool activities for him and coming up with zip because of his behavioral challenges. It's one thing to deal with preschoolers with disabilities, but people are a lot less welcoming of a 6 foot tall teen with behavioral challenges. It's hard on the whole family, especially siblings.

[Guest]

IME, the US isn't that different. We get stared at every time we go out with GW. We get the occasional nasty comment. I've been looking for afterschool activities for him and coming up with zip because of his behavioral challenges. It's one thing to deal with preschoolers with disabilities, but people are a lot less welcoming of a 6 foot tall teen with behavioral challenges. It's hard on the whole family, especially siblings.

This is so true. The older the child becomes, the less understanding people in general are. The expectation seems to be the child should have outgrown that SN! Umm...really? 

[Tsuga]

I would like to understand better what you said. (takng care of sick family members, so my brain is less clear than at better times) I guess you think well of the man?

 

The Armenians whom I have known took seriously their Armenian Christian religion. I wonder what the country's religion demographics are at present. Christians down to a small percentage of the population? I was shocked at the exclusion of the father, but shocked worse by the wife instantly bailing out of her marriage. Junking both husband and newborn in a moment. She could have emigrated to New Zealand with her husband, as that country sounds to be reasonably hospitable toward people with difficulties.

 

I don't know him personally but yes I do think it took some courage to stand up for his values and bring the child to his native country.

 

As for the wife, it is sad. People of all kinds can convince themselves that something is okay "because they won't know any better". Like they might think the child with Downs Syndrome would be humiliated in public and therefore is better off in an institution. I disagree but I know that people can convince themselves of nearly anything.

 

I hope someday she has the chance to meet her child and fall in love again. 

[kiwik]

 

I don't understand what's the problem wit GoFundme, while there's no problem with money being collected at the end of each Sunday service? At least with GoFundMe everyone is free to donate how much they want (or not to donate at all) without social pressure, and the money goes directly to the cause. It is wonderful that people are charitable and can choose their own causes. Who asked for the donations is totally irrelevant. If you feel that it is noble to watch your baby suffer while being stuck in a foreign country, and asking for money is a social faux pas, don't donate

 

I am not suggesting leaving the child there just that the amount collected far exceeds the expense of returning am adult and an infant even if bribes are involved and to pay the average NZ wage for several years. Maybe collections should stop when the needed money is received. Hr could use the extra money to raise publicity and try and change things but do we have the right to go and tell other countries what to do in that way. I suppose a charity could be set up to test and abort children that would be abandoned. It does sound like it would be better but I really can't see a charity to 'identify and abort imperfect fetuses' can you?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

On the gofundme page, he mentioned that a bunch of the extra money will go to charity, including the only charity in Armenia that takes in children with Down syndrome, I believe. On my phone so I can't go verify now though.

[ktgrok]

I just don't know that a black woman from Chicago  temporarily housed in a shelter with her three school aged kids  begging for pocket change would manage to pull in 300K in a few hours. I think this father is doing a lovely thing, but nothing that women don't do every day all over the world without special notice or hundreds of thousands of dollars coming her way. I don't mean to be argumentative or diminish what this father has done, but the money grab rubs me the wrong way, no matter what the cause.

 

Money grab? He's donating the extra money to causes that support institutionalized kids in Armenia. And I don't look at it as a money grab anyway. I look at it as him blessing people by giving them the opportunity to share with the less fortunate, which is a blessing to them. 

 

People LIKE giving to those in need. It makes us feel good. He's blessing us, by giving us a chance to give. 

[ktgrok]

It sometimes seems like the first thing people do when things go wrong is ask strangers for money.

 

 

 

You know, in an era where politicians and conservative voters say we shouldn't fund a safety net via the government, that instead charity should be done privately, I don't get how things like Go Fund Me get knocked. This is what they said they wanted, private charity. And yet, it's still not good enough. 

 

I think what they really mean is people should stop having the poor manners to be poor. 

 

(and yes, some people that don't need the money ask on go fund me. I just ignore them. I have no need to fund someone's breast implants, so I don't. No harm, no foul. but when my husband's friend's wife needed a new wheelchair, or a friend needed some help with moving expenses so her husband could take a better paying job, or a friend needs to raise money for child care expenses so she can participate in a potentially life saving clinical trial for MS, yeah, I think it is AMAZING that we can share with each other, bless each other. It's the best part of being human.)

[kiwik]

I am poor. And like the father in the story I am from NZ where we have a better safety net. I am glad he is donating the rest of the money to an existing charity in Armenia. I didn't see that in what I read. And yes no one has to give. I guess it just goes against my upbringing.

[milovany]

The mama's story. 

[momto10blessings]

The mama's story.

Now it gets interesting...

[MyLittleWonders]

That didn't help me feel more sympathy for her. Honestly, if I had to choose between my own child and supporting my husband while he decided whether or not to abandon my child, it would be a no-brainer. My child wins. Every time. It wasn't that long ago that children born with Down syndrome, here in the US, were whisked away at birth and parents were very strongly counseled to put the child in an institution. yet many parents went against medical advice, cultural norms, and even societal/family pressure, brought those babies home, and raised them as they would their other children. I just can't see what this mother had to decide, especially with a husband by her side, wanting to raise their child.

[MistyMountain]

It is hard to know what side is correct because this side is a little different. The worse part of the previous story is the ultimatum where she said that if he keeps the baby she will divorce him. Her side is that he said he was leaving and didn't ask her to come. 

 

I remember a while ago there was this blog post everyone was sharing of this story of a women's baby being born with down syndrome. She wasn't prepared ahead of time so she was very shocked. This women was in this country. She noticed the baby had down syndrome right away and she was grieving and processing and crying for hours. She did process eventually and came to accept it but everyone understood that it took some time to do so.

 

Imagine being in a place where you never encounter people with down syndrome and it is expected you give a baby up when they do. Your family and doctors are pressuring you to just give the baby up and they are not saying good things about the diagnosis It is a lot to take in regardless never mind under pressure in a country with a very different attitude. In comments everyone still makes her out to be a horrible person but it sounds like she didn't even have time to process it or talk to her husband and she was under pressure from other people who offered no support. She had no idea this was coming. Her husband may not have offered her to come. I wonder how easy it would be for her to get citizenship. Maybe he didn't like the fact that she was unsure what to do. I guess most people believe his story but there is no way of knowing which side is correct or if it is somewhere between the two.