JennyD Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 There is a documentary premiering at Sundance tomorrow. It's about a family of seven children whose father kept them mostly locked in their NYC apartment for years. They were homeschooled, of course, but also watched -- and reenacted -- movies endlessly. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/24/movies/the-wolfpack-tells-of-one-new-york-apartment-with-seven-children-locked-inside.html http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-ca-wolfpack-sundance-20150125-story.html It looks like a fascinating film, albeit one not exactly helpful to the homeschooling cause. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixieB Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 That looks fascinating! With any luck, it will make it to a screen here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I read the NY Time article - the whole family sounds fascinating. It does sound like the Father has some mental health issues. (They were locked into the apartment - dad had the only key). But it also sounds like the mother has done the best with the bad situation and raised kind, intelligent children. I would definitely see the film if it became available over here. The names of the kids threw me at first...then the article stated that the father was Hare Krishna but the family is ethnically Peruvian. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakeside Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 That does look fascinating. I didn't find a trailer for the film either, Julie, but a I did find a short clip from an interview with the director. (at least I think she was the director.). I believe she said the film was in the documentary competition. I don't know anything about how Sundace works, but wondered if maybe there wasn't a trailer because of the competition? According to one of the articles, I got the impression that CPS was involved at some point, yet the living situation didn't seem to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Posting to remember to check it out when I jump on the computer next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Wow. So from what I'm reading, it's like a real-life version of Emma Donaghue's Room, except the kids are let out a few times a year and because the mom is married to the guy, it's somehow okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 That does look fascinating. I didn't find a trailer for the film either, Julie, but a I did find a short clip from an interview with the director. (at least I think she was the director.). I believe she said the film was in the documentary competition. I don't know anything about how Sundace works, but wondered if maybe there wasn't a trailer because of the competition? According to one of the articles, I got the impression that CPS was involved at some point, yet the living situation didn't seem to change. The article implied cps was involved more recently and went on to say that once one child got out of the house the dynamics in family changed. So my guess is that things did change. I mean I doubt a man who locks his entire family in the house would let a film crew in or allow them to travel to the Sundance premier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustEm Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Wow. So from what I'm reading, it's like a real-life version of Emma Donaghue's Room, except the kids are let out a few times a year and because the mom is married to the guy, it's somehow okay. Who implies it's OK. It sounds like a terribly abusive thing to do and those children and mother will be dealing with that for the rest of their lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The articles don't say, but I'm assuming the husband/father allowed the filming. From that, I'm assuming he feels he's done the best in raising them. And now that the cat is out of the bag, will the mom and children be allowed to leave the apartment on a regular basis? Will they seek education, jobs, or relationships? Or does he still keep them away from the world? I wonder if the documentary covers all of that? And I'd also like to know the circumstances of the one son who escaped. What happened there? How did he get out? How old was he? Where did he go? Does he stay in touch with his family? I'd love to see this film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It says in the article that only one child is still living at home, and they're all working through their feelings on their, frankly, abusive and controlling father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakeside Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It says in the article that only one child is still living at home, and they're all working through their feelings on their, frankly, abusive and controlling father.??? I guess I need to read the article again. I thought it said all but one of the children were living at home. That's why I thought the living situation didn't change much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof3 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Um... How is that not abuse? And if we can all agree that it *is* abuse, why are the children still locked in their home? Or did I miss something? I don't think I could watch this. It's not just a past tense situation (if I'm reading it right)...this is an ongoing situation. Those poor kids. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof3 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 OTOH, I should probably take my own advice from the Stanley kids' thread...and wait a week or two to comment. So never mind. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 You're right, I'm the one who misread it, only one has LEFT. Sorry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Just read this short "where they are now" update. It IS short. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommybee Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Saw them on 20/20 on Hulu and it made me so sad and happy for them at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 This looks interesting. Hopefully it will come to Netflix so I can watch it. Speaking of homeschooling documentaries, there was also "Surfwise." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 20/20 just did a story on them Friday night. They seemed remarkably well adjusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I think it's abuse but at the point at which the filmmaker started documenting them, it sounds like they were going outside occasionally. I think they're keeping mum about some aspects because they're what the film covers - it sounds like the film is really the story of them emerging from that life and things changing. Or maybe I'm being optimistic. I've also been awaiting seeing this since I read that article in the NYT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Wow. So from what I'm reading, it's like a real-life version of Emma Donaghue's Room, except the kids are let out a few times a year and because the mom is married to the guy, it's somehow okay. It's totally NOT ok that the mom was involved 100% in this abusive situation. She is as bad as the father. Two sides of the same coin. I really hope these children can go on to enjoy a peaceful, pleasant life. I'm thinking that this documentary isn't going to help them so much in their future lives. It would have been better if actors played their parts and the children could at least have some visible anonimity. So sad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 It's totally NOT ok that the mom was involved 100% in this abusive situation. She is as bad as the father. Two sides of the same coin. From the description, it sounds like the mother was caught up in it. Her behavior was also strictly controlled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 That was a crazy story. I didn't watch the entire thing, but most of it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 WTH? How the mom "remains married" to that dude...smh 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 http://ondemand.abcnews.com/playback/abcnews/2015/06/150611_2020_wolfpack_trailer_700.mp4?UMADPARAMcsid=nws_smartphone_vididx&UMADPARAMcaid=news-31703842&mediaName=31703842%7C150611_2020_wolfpack_trailer_video%7Csec_2020~sec_us%7CWatch%20'The%20Wolfpack'%20Full%20Movie%20Trailer A direct link to the trailer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 This is more a documentary about survivors coping with a domestic violence situation than anything to do with homeschooling. This was a story about their life since the documentary was released. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/movies/the-wolfpack-brothers-step-out-of-their-world.html 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 So with all the food this family ate, all the noise they must have made with their acting and such, NO ONE in the apartment building noticed that this abusive man was forcing a wife and 7 children to stay locked up for so many years? Unbelievable, and disturbing. I won't be watching the documentary. It's kind of sick that someone is probably going to make a lot of money on this tragic story. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 So with all the food this family ate, all the noise they must have made with their acting and such, NO ONE in the apartment building noticed that this abusive man was forcing a wife and 7 children to stay locked up for so many years? Unbelievable, and disturbing. I won't be watching the documentary. It's kind of sick that someone is probably going to make a lot of money on this tragic story. If you read some of the articles you will see that plenty of people noticed. CPS was even involved. But, no laws were being broken and there was nothing to be done. The mom did tell people who could have helped at the time that she was in the apartment against her own free will. Lots of victims of DV do not realize what they are going through is abuse until it has been going on for quite a while. they did meet in, I think, a cult...moonies? And then he told her the world was dangerous and he needed them to stay safe. It's not like this is a typical situation in any way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Was he physically abusive?? How did he keep them all in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 The father is Hare Krishna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Was he physically abusive?? How did he keep them all in? Not a lot is known about the relationship. I have no idea if he was or was not physically abusive, but there are a lot of ways to control someone without hitting them. So maybe or maybe not. He did tell them their neighborhood was dangerous, he was keeping them safe, etc. He says he 'forbade them'. I have no idea what the Hare Krishnas believe in terms of gender and marriage, but if she is supposed to 'submit' etc. I can easily see how it could happen. We have a cult compound two blocks from my house and I am pretty sure the women are not allowed outside without male supervision. They aren't Krishna though. It was the kids, the boy Mukunda, who left for the first time. Again, if you read some of the articles, the balance of power started to tip. The father started to lose control and the boys started to make contact with the outside world. At least as of early June, there have been a lot of changes. The mother has bought a car and I think changed her name to her pre-married name. At least some of the kids have also changed their names. One boy has moved out, the others have gotten jobs or are taking classes. I got the feeling that the father is living in the home, but no one is talking to him...something like that anyway. The boys have expressed a lot of anger towards him and a lot of love and support of their mother. I am guessing they are in the best position to know what was going on in their home. There is also a sister, the eldest of them, who I believe was born with developmental difficulties. She is rarely mentioned. I think that was one of the reasons the father gave for 'protecting' the family from the dangerous outside world. and it also appears that once CPS got involved the three youngest children were taken for therapy. My guess is that the other kids were 18 and older by that point? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 So with all the food this family ate, all the noise they must have made with their acting and such, NO ONE in the apartment building noticed that this abusive man was forcing a wife and 7 children to stay locked up for so many years? Unbelievable, and disturbing. I won't be watching the documentary. It's kind of sick that someone is probably going to make a lot of money on this tragic story. Consider that man in Austria who kept his daughter and his children by her (ugh!) in the basement of his apartment building for so long. People can ignore a lot of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Consider that man in Austria who kept his daughter and his children by her (ugh!) in the basement of his apartment building for so long. People can ignore a lot of things. But all the press on the Austrian case talks of him as a criminal (and he was arrested as a criminal). In this case, the articles seem to treat it more like a curiosity than actual abuse. Why wasn't the father arrested? Was his power just verbal - as in "don't do that" and they didn't? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 But all the press on the Austrian case talks of him as a criminal (and he was arrested as a criminal). In this case, the articles seem to treat it more like a curiosity than actual abuse. Why wasn't the father arrested? Was his power just verbal - as in "don't do that" and they didn't? Probably because you have the legal right to keep your minor children locked up (sickening though that is) and the wife hasn't alleged abuse against him. The Austrian case involved him kidnapping and then raping his adult daughter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arliemaria Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I know exactly where the compound thing in West Virginia is. Crazy. I always wonder how people survive these "never left the house" situations without a single doctors visit, etc. How do you have that many kids and never see a doctor? No one has ever gotten sick enough that they need a hospital visit ONCE?! My daughter is two and has had a few ear infections. Robby has had one. I know this isn't a serious medical concern, but antibiotics did help after they were in pain for days. I guess you could have homebirths for the children, but at some point I would assume you'd need to go somewhere. Help me understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Do you really have the right to lock up children? I looked at some sites that list abuse and locking children in rooms are listed as part of neglect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Do you really have the right to lock up children? I looked at some sites that list abuse and locking children in rooms are listed as part of neglect. Many things that are abusive and neglectful are not illegal - and these children were never left unattended, their mother was always right there with them. I can't guarantee that this action was legal, but I'm fairly certain it was. Even if it wasn't, the statute of limitations might have expired on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xuzi Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I know exactly where the compound thing in West Virginia is. Crazy. I always wonder how people survive these "never left the house" situations without a single doctors visit, etc. How do you have that many kids and never see a doctor? No one has ever gotten sick enough that they need a hospital visit ONCE?! My daughter is two and has had a few ear infections. Robby has had one. I know this isn't a serious medical concern, but antibiotics did help after they were in pain for days. I guess you could have homebirths for the children, but at some point I would assume you'd need to go somewhere. Help me understand. One of the articles I read said they were taken to the doctor and dentist at regular intervals, so there was no neglect in that particular area. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 http://ondemand.abcnews.com/playback/abcnews/2015/06/150611_2020_wolfpack_trailer_700.mp4?UMADPARAMcsid=nws_smartphone_vididx&UMADPARAMcaid=news-31703842&mediaName=31703842%7C150611_2020_wolfpack_trailer_video%7Csec_2020~sec_us%7CWatch%20'The%20Wolfpack'%20Full%20Movie%20Trailer A direct link to the trailer. Thanks for posting the link. The trailer was intense. I will try to see the movie when I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 One of the articles I read said the dad didn't work and they lived off welfare. Although I know you can receive many forms of aid such as food stamps, Medicaid, subsidized housing, etc. indefinitely, I thought welfare was limited to five years in most states. Another thing that confused me was that in most of the 20/20 story and many of the pictures in various publications there are only five brothers rather than six. I couldn't tell if it was always the same brother missing. Maybe the one who moved out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 One of the articles I read said they were taken to the doctor and dentist at regular intervals, so there was no neglect in that particular area.Also, if you are almost completely isolated from the world, you're not going to pick up many infectious diseases. And sitting in an apartment watching movies you are not exposed to many potential accidents either. The world is in fact a dangerous place. Sitting in a room watching movies is much safer than engaging in normal life activities. Healthier? No. But safer. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 One of the articles I read said the dad didn't work and they lived off welfare. Although I know you can receive many forms of aid such as food stamps, Medicaid, subsidized housing, etc. indefinitely, I thought welfare was limited to five years in most states. Another thing that confused me was that in most of the 20/20 story and many of the pictures in various publications there are only five brothers rather than six. I couldn't tell if it was always the same brother missing. Maybe the one who moved out? I believe the sixth child is a daughter with some mental handicaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I know exactly where the compound thing in West Virginia is. Crazy. I always wonder how people survive these "never left the house" situations without a single doctors visit, etc. How do you have that many kids and never see a doctor? No one has ever gotten sick enough that they need a hospital visit ONCE?! My daughter is two and has had a few ear infections. Robby has had one. I know this isn't a serious medical concern, but antibiotics did help after they were in pain for days. I guess you could have homebirths for the children, but at some point I would assume you'd need to go somewhere. Help me understand. Well, my nine year old son has never had antibiotics in his life. My DD had several in her first 3ish years due to ear infections, then later for UTIs, probably caused in part by the earlier usage!! But DS never has. Both of them broke their arms at 9 years old and needed medical attention for that - obviously. But, they didn't break them watching movies. ;) They have also attended public schools and still only picked up viruses that did not need medical attention -only rest, fluids, and Mom's love and homemade soup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I know exactly where the compound thing in West Virginia is. Crazy. I always wonder how people survive these "never left the house" situations without a single doctors visit, etc. How do you have that many kids and never see a doctor? No one has ever gotten sick enough that they need a hospital visit ONCE?! My daughter is two and has had a few ear infections. Robby has had one. I know this isn't a serious medical concern, but antibiotics did help after they were in pain for days. I guess you could have homebirths for the children, but at some point I would assume you'd need to go somewhere. Help me understand. But this wasn't like that. Again, if you click the links and read the articles for yourself you will learn a lot. Just take the 10 mins to read and a lot of questions will be answered. The article in the NYT says the mother insisted on taking them to regular doctor and dentist appts and she did homeschool them. That was one of the reasons that CPS couldn't do much. The legal markers of neglect (no medical care, no education, not enough food, filthy environment) were not there. It turns out it isn't against the law not to let your kids outside to play. And actually, in a lot of those more dangerous neighborhoods it is pretty common for kids to go to school and come home and not go outside much. I am not getting the idea that their father was a monster like that guy in Austria, just a very controlling man with a lot of fears. I have my suspicions that he is mentally ill and inflicted his paranoia on the rest of the family in a mistaken belief that he was taking good care of them. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Do you really have the right to lock up children? I looked at some sites that list abuse and locking children in rooms are listed as part of neglect. If you read the articles you will see that CPS did investigate the family and could not get a charge of neglect. They were not locked in bedrooms etc but in the apartment along with their mother. The boys says she took good care of them. CPS said they were being cared for, had regular medical and dental care, enough food. The state won't reveal information about homeschooling, but if CPS was involved she must have been following the law. CPS did say that the three younger children needed to be taken to a therapist and they went for a year. If the parents complied then the case would have been closed. One of the articles I read said the dad didn't work and they lived off welfare. Although I know you can receive many forms of aid such as food stamps, Medicaid, subsidized housing, etc. indefinitely, I thought welfare was limited to five years in most states. Another thing that confused me was that in most of the 20/20 story and many of the pictures in various publications there are only five brothers rather than six. I couldn't tell if it was always the same brother missing. Maybe the one who moved out? There is a sister, who is the eldest. I did see her in one picture, she looks just like her brothers, lol. They are all beautiful. She was born with developmental disabilities. In one article I read, that seemed to have spurred some of the father's paranoia that he had to 'protect' his children from the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 What about fire codes? Surely there are laws against locking people in with no way out? Or perhaps this was one of those buildings with window-accessed fire escape ladders, so they could in fact get out in an emergency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I believe the sixth child is a daughter with some mental handicaps. There are seven total children, six boys and one girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 What about fire codes? Surely there are laws against locking people in with no way out? Or perhaps this was one of those buildings with window-accessed fire escape ladders, so they could in fact get out in an emergency? But who checks on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 But who checks on that? I'm thinking that if CPS checked up on the family they would have looked into safety concerns. I've been thinking about this story. I guess there really aren't any laws that would prevent me from forbidding my children to leave the house, as long as they are fed, clothed, receive appropriate medical care and appropriate education... It just kind of blows my mind because they idea of confining them to the house would never have occurred to me as an option. As I am sure it doesn't to most people. Nearly all parents place some restrictions around their children's lives, for the sake of safety and convenience. We limit where they go when, how far from home they can roam or whether they can roam at all without adult supervision, who they can play with, what activities they engage in. This isn't so very different, just much tighter control/more limited options. I'm trying to figure out if it is really qualitatively different from what what most parents do, and if so--where is the line drawn? If the kids had been allowed out once a week, would the situation appear more healthy? What if they had been confined to the house until age ten, but then allowed more freedom? The situation feels very wrong, I'm not arguing that it doesn't. Just wondering at what point restricting children's activities crosses the line from reasonable parenting to abusive control. How wide is the "decent parenting" band between the extremes of excessive control and excessive laxness/lack of oversight? This is the opposite side of the discussion about free range parenting and at what point that becomes irresponsible. Assuming children at both ends are receiving food, clothing, shelter, and medical care... where do abuse and irresponsibility start? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagine.more Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 But this wasn't like that. Again, if you click the links and read the articles for yourself you will learn a lot. Just take the 10 mins to read and a lot of questions will be answered. The article in the NYT says the mother insisted on taking them to regular doctor and dentist appts and she did homeschool them. That was one of the reasons that CPS couldn't do much. The legal markers of neglect (no medical care, no education, not enough food, filthy environment) were not there. It turns out it isn't against the law not to let your kids outside to play. And actually, in a lot of those more dangerous neighborhoods it is pretty common for kids to go to school and come home and not go outside much. I am not getting the idea that their father was a monster like that guy in Austria, just a very controlling man with a lot of fears. I have my suspicions that he is mentally ill and inflicted his paranoia on the rest of the family in a mistaken belief that he was taking good care of them. This is what I saw too. I mean, it's likely some sort of neglect but not bad enough to remove the kids and doesn't seem like any abuse happened. The kids did leave the house anywhere from 1-9 times a year except one year when they didn't leave at all. So it wasn't literally never and they did go to the doctor. It was a 4 bedroom apartment with electricity, water, heat, furniture, clothes, books, and entertainment via tv and music. And it sounds like the mom did her best to actually homeschool them and encouraged all their creative endeavors (the director said their drawings were all over the wall in the kitchen and they put on elaborate plays of the movies, writing down the script by watching and pausing, and made costumes for the plays). The director also said the mom was a really good cook. So it's certainly dysfunctional but I guess I wouldn't necessarily say bad enough to remove the kids. Clearly CPS and the director who spent 5 years filming off and on in their home didn't think so. I mean, compared to most foster kids these ones would seem very well off. I have crazy stories from foster kids and this doesn't fall into the same class. No drugs, no physical or sexual abuse, no exposure to extreme hazards (like when one child I know punctured her hand on her mom's drug needles that were face up on the kitchen table or when an unattended toddler was burnt by a boiling pot of soup). There was food in good quantity and quality, water, hygiene was practiced it seems (lots of foster kids don't know how to brush their teeth), and they had education (not sure if she followed homeschool laws but there's no claims she didn't so far) and healthcare. The brothers seem to be doing pretty well considering the situation, 3-4 of them have jobs now and 1 moved out independently. All seem to be literate, healthy, confident adults. They all speak positively of their mother and even homeschooling but do not agree with their father or the isolation & paranoia which seems pretty balanced and accurate. I think it's a bit odd nothing is ever said about the sister but I guess it's good her disability isn't being exploited by the media. I'm all for calling out truly abusive/neglectful cases (like the Nauglers, ugh!) but there's no need to jump to conclusions in this case based on the information that I've seen so far. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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