Could someone remind me: Maximum number of Dual enrollment to still be considered freshman?

[madteaparty]

I don't need exact numbers, just a ballpark. If we do HS at home we will make heavy use of the local CC (possibly starting in 8th grade) as well a liberal arts college with a  DE program. What is the max we can do and not risk being labeled a transfer student?  To be clear, I am not interested in any sort of college credit for these classes, any credit would go on the high school transcript. Thank you!

[GailV]

Doesn't it depend somewhat on what university the student eventually attends?  Our state schools accept more credits from local dual enrollments than out of state schools accept; in other words, you couldn't use them for college credit some places even if you wanted to.

[The Girls' Mom]

It depends on your state, the school attending, etc.  There is no national limit.

[maize]

The schools I have talked to don't count credits earned before high school graduation when determining freshman applicant status, but I think this may vary from school to school so contact the schools your child may be interested in.

[EKS]

It depends on the college.  All of the colleges my son applied to said that if college courses were taken in high school, the student should apply as a freshman.  And all of the colleges we looked at before settling on the ones he applied to said this as well.  But I did find a college that had a limit, which was 36 quarter/24 semester credits.  

 

My point is that you're going to need to check each college's policies.

[Teachin'Mine]

Generally it varies depending on the selectivity of the college, but you do have to check with each college.  We found that the most selective ones had no limit as long as the courses were completed while still a high school student.  Some of the less selective ones had limits as low as 30 or fewer credits before having to be a transfer student. 

 

I'd also talk with the dual enrollment office for any of their restrictions.  While some allow 8th graders to take college classes, some limit the number of years a student can dual enroll.  If there is a number of years restriction, you may want to do AP or a course at another college and wait until 9th grade.

[8filltheheart]

Is there any state which limits the DE hrs before students are considered transfer students rather than freshman?

[Jann in TX]

Texas has a limit-- when dd2 enrolled in college (state universities)j there was a limit of 32 DE hours-- any more than that and the student was admitted as a transfer student.

 

You (as a parent/student) cannot pick and choose which DE credits to report-- it ALL goes on on college transcript.  If a college/university does not accept the course they will leave it off-- it is THEIR choice not yours.

 

Please check with any colleges your student may be interested in before taking too many DE credits-- it can limit scholarship opportunities (more scholarships go to 'first time freshmen' than to transfer students).

 

Also note that DE is NOT a substitute for high school.  Most 8th and 9th graders (unless incredibly advanced) are NOT ready for the rigor of a collge level class.  Most CC's have age and or grade level minimums.  For example the subject matter in a CC English 101 class will have ADULT material (borderline pornographic in some cases)-- you probably would not  want a 14 yr old exposed to that!  Check the courses and material covered out BEFORE enrolling!  (my dd's Speech class had LOTS of adult material in the student speeches-- anyone uncomfortable could step out of the room.  Another section of the same course taken by one of dd's friends penalized the students if they left the room).

 

 

[KarenC]

Dd applied to 5 colleges.  4 of them had no limit on the number of DE credits.  One college did not accept DE credit at all.

[Lori D.]

I don't need exact numbers, just a ballpark. If we do HS at home we will make heavy use of the local CC (possibly starting in 8th grade) as well a liberal arts college with a  DE program. What is the max we can do and not risk being labeled a transfer student?

 

Totally depends on the policy of the individual college/university. Limits I typically have seen: 12 units, 23-24 units, 60 units, and then, unlimited. Some accept no dual enrollment credits. Even further, some top tier universities do not accept any transfer credits from ANY other school.

 

You may also be limited by the school itself that offers dual enrollment. Some schools only allow juniors and seniors to take dual enrollment, and only 1-2 courses per semester. Other schools require a minimum age of 16 for dual enrollment; some allow as low as age 14 by jumping some additional hoops. I've not seen many schools allow for as young as 8th grade (age 12/13).

 

Also, some schools have limited availability of dual enrollment. For example, in CA, many community colleges are so full now with returning adults, that high school students are limited to 1 course per semester, and are placed at the end of the line, and only can take that 1 class IF there is still room after all post-high school students have registered.

 

Finally, some community colleges offer courses for high school students that are high school level versions of classes, not true college level dual enrollment. Typically, those classes occur on a high school campus, while the true college level classes happen on the CC campus. The point is: be sure you are getting what you want for what you are paying. :)

 

 

 To be clear, I am not interested in any sort of college credit for these classes, any credit would go on the high school transcript. 

 

Please be aware: this is NOT a decision you get to make. When you apply to a college/university, they require you to submit ALL transcripts, including those from dual enrollment at community colleges/universities. Dual enrollment credits are counted as college credits, and all grades are calculated into the permanent college GPA. The individual college/university makes the determination of which credits transfer or not, and if they transfer towards a degree program, gen. ed., or as electives.

 

Failure to not provide these transcripts risks loss of financial aid, expulsion from the school, being stripped of any degree awarded (if discovered after the fact), and being required to pay back any aid received. This is stated policy for most colleges/universities.

 

 

Jann in TX provided some additional excellence tips about dual enrollment. More valuable tips and information in these two past threads:

- Here is a bit of advice about community college classes

- Preparing for community college science courses (dual enrollment)

 

BEST of luck as you plan for high school and beyond! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Teachin'Mine]

All the colleges dd applied to had no limit on the number of DE credits to be admitted as a freshman. These were all ranked top 30's and most of them would not transfer any of her DE credits, but some might upon review.  She didn't apply to any of the colleges which would have required her to enter as a transfer student.

 

You and your son will know when he's ready for a college class when the time comes.

[Butler]

Don't ever just go with the requirements listed on the website for DE classes. We have always found those to be more of a a general guideline. I have had two children take DE classes at a younger age/grade than those listed on the college websites. Always talk to an actual person.

 

I do think that DE can be a substitute for high school for some students. Our community college allows DE starting at 9th grade level with no minimum age requirement. They allow for nine free classes per year which is more than enough for a rigorous high school course load. Our state flagship also allows nine free classes a year, and while they say a student should be at least 11th grade I know for a fact they admit lower grade levels to the program. Again, speak to a real live person, preferably several if you don't get the answers you want!

 

As to how many credits make an applicant a transfer student, in our college search we never found any that had a limit. Many had a limit as to how many credits would actually transfer, but none had a limit that would turn a freshman applicant into a transfer applicant.

[Ellie]

 

 

Also note that DE is NOT a substitute for high school.  Most 8th and 9th graders (unless incredibly advanced) are NOT ready for the rigor of a college level class.  Most CC's have age and or grade level minimums.  For example the subject matter in a CC English 101 class will have ADULT material (borderline pornographic in some cases)-- you probably would not  want a 14 yr old exposed to that!  Check the courses and material covered out BEFORE enrolling!  (my dd's Speech class had LOTS of adult material in the student speeches-- anyone uncomfortable could step out of the room.  Another section of the same course taken by one of dd's friends penalized the students if they left the room).

 

This may be true in Texas, but it was not true in California. :-)

[madteaparty]

To address several of the posts, my DS is 10; I am just trying to create some high school options*for when the time comes* since we are in a bit of a bind and I'd rather not homeschool high school if it can be helped. Homeschooling was not my first choice in the first place.

 

His friend is taking CC classes at 12, but she is far more gifted than he is.  She took a placement test like any incoming student.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

This may be true in Texas, but it was not true in California. :-)

 

In the San Diego area, there was wild variation from one CC district to another (as you moved from one side of the county to the other).

 

 One district was so over capacity with regular college students that they only allowed high schoolers from specific partner high schools to attend.  Another had an official middle college program where students spent their 11th and 12th grades at the college earning both high school and college credit - but again only for a specific school district, with no idea how to proceed for a homeschooler.  The CC my son took a course at, did allow students as young as 9th grade, but had a 6 credit per semester cap (which precluded a science (4 credits) and any other course).

 

This was all within a 45 min commute.  

[Sebastian (a lady)]

To address several of the posts, my DS is 10; I am just trying to create some high school options*for when the time comes* since we are in a bit of a bind and I'd rather not homeschool high school if it can be helped. Homeschooling was not my first choice in the first place.

 

His friend is taking CC classes at 12, but she is far more gifted than he is.  She took a placement test like any incoming student.

 

As Lori D mentioned, if the course is taken for credit at the CC, then that transcript should be provided as part of the college application process.  An A in the course will be considered.  But so will a C or an F.

 

If you are looking for academic exposure and experience, but really don't care about college credit; auditing might be an option.  But that might exclude the student from exams and paper evaluations, which would mean you would need to evaluate the grade yourself.  And a CC might be reluctant to admit a high schooler in an audit status.  

[Ellie]

In the San Diego area, there was wild variation from one CC district to another (as you moved from one side of the county to the other).

 

 One district was so over capacity with regular college students that they only allowed high schoolers from specific partner high schools to attend.  Another had an official middle college program where students spent their 11th and 12th grades at the college earning both high school and college credit - but again only for a specific school district, with no idea how to proceed for a homeschooler.  The CC my son took a course at, did allow students as young as 9th grade, but had a 6 credit per semester cap (which precluded a science (4 credits) and any other course).

 

This was all within a 45 min commute.  

 

It varied pretty much in the San Jose area, too, but for many of us, c.c. absolutely did replace high school. My dc, and many others, were able to take classes at one c.c. that allowed students as young as 14yo to take classes and earn college credit, not dual, high-school credit, with no caps.  Mary Harrington, co-author of Latin in the Christian Trivium, paved the way for the rest of us. :-)

[Lori D.]

His friend is taking CC classes at 12, but she is far more gifted than he is.  She took a placement test like any incoming student.

 

Yes, placement tests are standard policy as part of the admission process to a CC or university. In contrast, schools also have individual policies about minimum age -- sounds like this school will definitely be an option for your DS in 8th grade, as they have a lower age for admission, since his 12yo friend is already attending. Yea!  :hurray:  You will also be able to pump the mom of 12yo friend for details on what paperwork and steps are needed for the process -- double yea! :hurray:  :hurray:  It is SOOO much easier having a local person walk you through your specific situation. ;)

 

 

To address several of the posts, my DS is 10; I am just trying to create some high school options*for when the time comes* since we are in a bit of a bind and I'd rather not homeschool high school if it can be helped. Homeschooling was not my first choice in the first place.

 

I think we are all just eager to help you with your planning by sharing from what we have learned, and help you avoid potential pitfalls. :)

 

When we reached the dual enrollment stage, I really valued hearing from BTDT moms, even when their experiences and goals were different from my own, because there was so much more to the administrative aspect of high school and navigating college / community college than I ever would have guessed. School administration, record keeping and "counseling" were not my first choice ;), so I totally get it. :)

 

BEST of luck as you plan for the future! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It varied pretty much in the San Jose area, too, but for many of us, c.c. absolutely did replace high school. My dc, and many others, were able to take classes at one c.c. that allowed students as young as 14yo to take classes and earn college credit, not dual, high-school credit, with no caps.  Mary Harrington, co-author of Latin in the Christian Trivium, paved the way for the rest of us. :-)

 

Ah, now I understand what you were saying.

 

Coming from an area with a large, multi-county, multi-branch community college system, I was surprised to see how divided up the districts in the San Diego area were.  I guess the plus is that a student could have cross-enrolled and gotten past the cap on credits.

[Bristayl]

Texas has a limit-- when dd2 enrolled in college (state universities)j there was a limit of 32 DE hours-- any more than that and the student was admitted as a transfer student.

 

I am in Texas also, and I am not seeing a statewide limit. Could you please tell me where you got this information, and provide a link if possible? What year did your daughter enroll?

 

I had emailed the Texas A&M admissions office about this previously and received this response: "Even if a student has accumulated 72 credits, as long as this was through credit by exam and dual enrollment prior to high school graduation, the applicant would still be considered a freshman."

 

The only reason the admissions rep mentioned 72 credits is because I asked about that number specifically--she did not say that that number was a limit.

 

Freshman status would be important to us because of merit scholarships, so if you could point me to where I could find this 32 hour policy, I would appreciate it.

[Grantmom]

Please be aware: this is NOT a decision you get to make. When you apply to a college/university, they require you to submit ALL transcripts, including those from dual enrollment at community colleges/universities. Dual enrollment credits are counted as college credits, and all grades are calculated into the permanent college GPA. The individual college/university makes the determination of which credits transfer or not, and if they transfer towards a degree program, gen. ed., or as electives.

 

 

So, for example, if the student wants to take a science class at the local college, just to be able to take a good, rigorous science class, but doesn't want or need or care about it for DE credit, does it still count toward the college GPA?  If you are counting it as a high school science credit on the transcript, then it is up to the college as to whether or not it counts in the GPA then?

 

I'm just asking because I'm nervous about this counting toward the GPA thing!  I think it would be great to take advantage of some great local colleges to take classes, but if you get anything less than an A, I'm afraid that could hurt more than help.

 

Oh, maybe you could just take it pass/fail?

[Lori D.]

So, for example, if the student wants to take a science class at the local college, just to be able to take a good, rigorous science class, but doesn't want or need or care about it for DE credit, does it still count toward the college GPA?

 

Oh, maybe you could just take it pass/fail?

 

Yes, whether you want it or not, dual enrollment is a college class, and all college classes count on the permanent college transcript -- both the credit and the grade earned.

 

No, there is no college pass/fail.

 

 

… I'm nervous about this counting toward the GPA thing!  I think it would be great to take advantage of some great local colleges to take classes, but if you get anything less than an A, I'm afraid that could hurt more than help.

 

Yes, it's very wise of you to stop and consider the very real possible downsides to dual enrollment. :)

 

Realistically, there is nothing wrong with a "B" on the transcript -- many many scholarships just require maintaining a "B" average (3.0 GPA). Even a "C" is not the end of the world -- the credit will still transfer to other colleges, and still count towards a degree. And a "C" balances out with an "A" to make a "B" average. (And honestly, once a student earns a degree, no one asks whether it was earned with all "A"s or all "C"s. ;) )

 

A "D" or an "F", however, is a problem. Not only do those grades trash the GPA, they do not count towards the degree; those classes must be re-taken until a "C" or better is earned.

 

There is one option open to a student who gets partway into a semester and realizes they are really bombing it, and that is withdrawing from the class and taking a "W" on the transcript. You MUST withdraw by the deadline (usually about 1/2 to 2/3 into the semester) -- otherwise you are locked into the class for a grade. While a "W" also is part of the permanent transcript, it is not so bad as a "D" or an "F". It just means that for whatever reason, the student attempted the class, and had to withdraw before completing it. So there is no grade, and no effect on the GPA. However, there is also no credit, so the student has to take the course again at a later time in order to earn the credit.

 

The only time a student does not earn a grade for completing a college course is if taking the class for audit. If auditing a class, the student still pays full price for the class, and attends all of the classes, but does not test or turn in work, and is given no grade. The student also receives no credit. The course will show up as a "audit" on the transcript.

 

Auditing could be a possible solution if you wanted your student to take a science class at the CC for the rigor, but were fearful of a low grade. However, I see several potential downsides to that:

 

- without any tests or output for a class, it will be difficult to put a grade on your homeschool transcript for that class

 

- auditing a core academic class can look suspicious to a college admission office -- they may think you are trying to hide poor work ethic or poor grades through auditing; and they have no way of knowing how much or how little you did for the audit -- as far as they know, you never even showed up to the class  -- so, again, it may seem suspect to a college admission office that the student took the class for audit (no college credit), yet you count it as credit on the high school transcript

 

- if your student is ready for more rigor then why NOT encourage "going for it" so they can also earn the reward of simultaneous college credit

 

 

My suggestion is to not just throw a student into the deep end for the first semester of doing dual enrollment. ;) Some things to consider:

 

- learn some good study skills and time management skills in advance of trying dual enrollment

- wait until you are confident your student really is ready for this experience -- not only able to handle the higher academic level, but also the faster pace, the heavier workload, the ability to be self-disciplined to do the readings, projects, studying, etc., and can handle being in a classroom with adult students

- for the first class, select a subject the student is strong in, to help ensure success

- avoid online classes to start with -- an extra level of motivation and discipline is required to successfully complete these

- start with just ONE class to give your student time to adjust to all the other aspects that go into taking a college level course while still in high school (maybe two classes at most that first semester, if you have an older, mature student who is clearly ready for college level work)

- ask other local homeschoolers who have done dual enrollment what classes/instructors are good and which to avoid; or around at the college or look at www.ratemyprofessor.com for reviews of instructors to find those who would be a better fit and avoid those who will not be a good fit

- drill it into your student to check their college access webpage daily for changes or new assignments -- the teacher communicate a LOT through the online class site

- encourage your student get help at the first sign of struggle -- contact the teacher, or visit the free tutors, etc -- college level classes move quickly, cover a lot of ground in each class, and material builds -- so if you don't "get" something in one class, you can fall behind very quickly

 

 

Dual enrollment is not something to be afraid of. Many students have great first experiences and go on to succeed well with multiple dual enrollment classes per semester. And, there have been lots of students who had bad first experiences, and either find a way to get help and study like crazy, or minimize the damage, or take a "W" -- and come back wiser from the experience and move on with the rest of their college career just fine. One bad grade from dual enrollment on the permanent transcript is NOT going to permanently kill all chances of a high school student going on to college, or prevent a student from getting scholarships! ;)

 

You might do some reading of past threads on dual enrollment in post #1 of the big pinned thread at the top of the high school board: "Starting High School… Outsourcing… Dual Enrollment… links to past threads here!" These are two good ones to start with:

 

Here is a bit of advice about community college classes

Preparing for community college science classes

Dual enrollment: what type of classes did your student do or will do?

 

Warmest regards, Lori D.

[KarenC]

To address several of the posts, my DS is 10; I am just trying to create some high school options*for when the time comes* since we are in a bit of a bind and I'd rather not homeschool high school if it can be helped. Homeschooling was not my first choice in the first place.

 

His friend is taking CC classes at 12, but she is far more gifted than he is.  She took a placement test like any incoming student.

I had 1 dd start at 13 and 1 start at 14 at a small liberal arts college near us.  It has been a great experience.

[G5052]

So, for example, if the student wants to take a science class at the local college, just to be able to take a good, rigorous science class, but doesn't want or need or care about it for DE credit, does it still count toward the college GPA?  If you are counting it as a high school science credit on the transcript, then it is up to the college as to whether or not it counts in the GPA then?

 

I'm just asking because I'm nervous about this counting toward the GPA thing!  I think it would be great to take advantage of some great local colleges to take classes, but if you get anything less than an A, I'm afraid that could hurt more than help.

 

Oh, maybe you could just take it pass/fail?

 

When you apply to colleges, you're supposed to provide transcripts of any prior college work.  At the colleges where I work, there isn't a pass/fail option, just auditing which means that no grades are recorded at all.  The transcript will say something like this:  "English 101 -- Audit."  College admissions people have told me that they basically take that class out of the running. It doesn't show college-level work at all because the professor didn't evaluate the student.  They may have not even come to class.

 

I recommend taking one or two classes only in an area of strength to start.  I'd also be wary of an online class. One of the colleges I work for actually has a limit of two classes the first semester with a limited list of classes to choose from because so many homeschoolers tried to take a full load without ramping up and bottomed out. Enrollment is also very tight and they don't want dual enrollment students taking up slots from their regular students unless they're ready. They also don't allow online classes at first. Then after that you can take what you want but you need C's or above that first semester. Registering for dual enrollment here requires that the dual enrollment coordinator meets with you and looks at your grades each semester. 

 

And yes, FWIW about half of my dual enrollment students fail.  Among my regular students, it varies but not nearly that many.  Last semester the grades were better than they had been for a long time, but all of my dual enrollment students failed.  My oldest took the same class from another professor last summer for dual enrollment and was the top student, and then took online college Spanish last semester and was the top student again.  So it really varies, but in general I've found that dual enrollment students do worse than regular students.  There are all kinds of homeschoolers though.

[Jann in TX]

I am in Texas also, and I am not seeing a statewide limit. Could you please tell me where you got this information, and provide a link if possible? What year did your daughter enroll?

 

I had emailed the Texas A&M admissions office about this previously and received this response: "Even if a student has accumulated 72 credits, as long as this was through credit by exam and dual enrollment prior to high school graduation, the applicant would still be considered a freshman."

 

The only reason the admissions rep mentioned 72 credits is because I asked about that number specifically--she did not say that that number was a limit.

 

Freshman status would be important to us because of merit scholarships, so if you could point me to where I could find this 32 hour policy, I would appreciate it.

 

My dd graduated highschool (homeschooled) in 2011.  She is currently a Sr at Texas State University and will graduate in May!

 

She attended Austin Community College for her Dual Enrollment courses.  ACC had a limit of 2 classes per semester Jr and Sr years only (minimum age 16). UT/Texas State and Tx A&M had limits of 7 credits per semester for the last 4 semesters of highschool.

We were told any more than 32 hours and she would not have entering freshman status, but would be a transfer student.

 

DD had 28DE credit hours when she graduated high school and was accepted to Texas A&M (Corpus) as first-time freshman.  After she completed her first semester they awarded her the 28 credit hours from DE and she jumped to Sophmore status (great for enrolling in classes earlier!).  The DE hours gave her some flexability which she needed because she changed majors a few times!  She also had to drop out one semester due to health issues.  She will still graduate in 4 years.

 

Most univerisites/colleges/Community Colleges have a limit on the number of credit hours or the number of courses a DE student can take.  I know at ACC it was possible to apply for an exemption-- but this also meant that the student would become a TRANSFER student instead of an incoming freshman...

 

These rules change ALL THE TIME--- always check with the school the DE will be taken through AND the school you are wanting to transfer to (make sure they have a writen agreement to accept the DE/transfer credits!).

 

[TechWife]

I don't need exact numbers, just a ballpark. If we do HS at home we will make heavy use of the local CC (possibly starting in 8th grade) as well a liberal arts college with a  DE program. What is the max we can do and not risk being labeled a transfer student?  To be clear, I am not interested in any sort of college credit for these classes, any credit would go on the high school transcript. Thank you!

 

It may totally depend on where you live. In our state university system, dual enrollment students apply as freshman, no matter how many college credits they have earned during their high school years. 

[Grantmom]

And yes, FWIW about half of my dual enrollment students fail.  Among my regular students, it varies but not nearly that many.  Last semester the grades were better than they had been for a long time, but all of my dual enrollment students failed.  My oldest took the same class from another professor last summer for dual enrollment and was the top student, and then took online college Spanish last semester and was the top student again.  So it really varies, but in general I've found that dual enrollment students do worse than regular students.  There are all kinds of homeschoolers though.

 

Gosh, that is scary and discouraging.  Do you think it's just because they aren't ready for college-level work, but the parents think they are?  Can I ask what subject you teach?  The CCs here have an entrance exam that you have to be able to pass, which to me, should say that, if you can pass this exam, then you are ready for college level work.   If all the DE students failed, then there was some kind of break down.  Either the exam isn't accurately measuring if the students are ready for college level work, or the students are choosing a class that is too hard for them, or something.  In what areas do you think those DE students are lacking?

 

If you fail a DE class, and that stays on your permanent college record, that could be really devastating.

 

Parents, when your child takes a DE class, you still put that on the HS transcript and count that grade in the HS GPA too, right?  For example, if your child takes Biology at the CC in 11th grade, you can count that as your 11th grade science, and the grade they earned goes into their high school GPA, and counts as a high school credit.  And then it is just up to the college whether or not they also receive a college credit for that work also.  Is that how it works then?

[Grantmom]

I know you need to check with individual colleges as it may vary, but that seems hard to do, if every college is going to have a different take on it, and when you have no idea where your child will wind up.  Especially at the beginning of high school they might not even have a clue where they want to apply.

[Bristayl]

 

We were told any more than 32 hours and she would not have entering freshman status, but would be a transfer student.

 

These rules change ALL THE TIME--- always check with the school the DE will be taken through AND the school you are wanting to transfer to (make sure they have a writen agreement to accept the DE/transfer credits!).

 

Thanks for the additional info, Jann. From the information I received, it looks like the rules have changed since then, but I will keep my ear to the ground in case they change again!  

[Lori D.]

I know you need to check with individual colleges as it may vary, but that seems hard to do, if every college is going to have a different take on it, and when you have no idea where your child will wind up.  Especially at the beginning of high school they might not even have a clue where they want to apply.

 

Yes, that does make it tough.

 

But a good starting point would be whatever local schools you have in your city or state that would be good candidates for your student, or have good reputations -- in-state tuition is less than out-of-state, and in-city is even better, as your student can live at home. "Practicing" looking up policies or speaking with admission offices of 1-2 of these schools starting now is good practice for you in learning how to navigate collegiate systems.

 

Then, as you progress through high school, as you and DC hear of schools of interest, or your students start developing interests, cast your net a little wider -- ask here, or search online, and come up with several more schools to check into.

 

 

And while it is true that policies change frequently, they usually are small changes, not sweeping changes, which is good news for you and your student, if you don't really know what schools you want to apply to until well into 11th grade (which gives you 12th grade to make any adjustments to whatever you are doing to match any policies).

 

And if you suddenly discover a school you love late in the game, and they won't take any of your dual enrollment, or the amount of college credits already earned through dual enrollment bumps you into transfer student status, you can still apply! Just be prepared to make some adjustments to expectations and finances. OR, regretfully cross that school off, and find one that better fits with your dual enrollment.

 

There are MANY students who are rejected from their #1 school, are crushed, decide on an alternate college, go, and end up falling in love with it and having a wonderful experience that they didn't expect. :)

 

Being flexible, and not setting your heart on only one option will see your student through a lot of this process. :) BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

[Mike in SA]

FWIW, all of the problem cases I have heard of were homeschooled kids.  I believe (I only have second-hand info), that the parent decided to declare the hours as "DE," but the college admitted the students normally (not as DE).  But, some universities very well could have policies regarding too many DE hours.  I've not seen an irrefutable explanation as to why one student has a problem, and another does not.

 

Texas (the state) has a number of pure DE high school programs where the graduates do not appear to have any problems with applying as freshmen, though many students choose to enroll as juniors.  TAMS students, for example, are known to apply as freshmen (and win scholarships) to universities all over the country, even though they have a minimum of 56 hours of college credit, and some upwards of 90 or more.  TAMS is a highly competitive-entry STEM school run at UNT, and students would not keep coming if they started to hear how their options would be limited afterwards.  I have found no evidence of a single student there having problems.

 

Some of this may come down to the individual discretion of the institution's evaluator, and you may have some choice as to how or if those hours are counted.  However, once you request for ANY credit, the entire transcript will typically be evaluated -- you can't pick and choose. 

 

Imho, your best bet is probably to make sure you are listed as DE on the college's documentation prior to taking any courses as DE, and then check with the institutions you are interested in long-term.  It's always a safe bet to educate yourself and be prepared.

[Melissa B]

FWIW, all of the problem cases I have heard of were homeschooled kids.  I believe (I only have second-hand info), that the parent decided to declare the hours as "DE," but the college admitted the students normally (not as DE).  But, some universities very well could have policies regarding too many DE hours.  I've not seen an irrefutable explanation as to why one student has a problem, and another does not.

 

Texas (the state) has a number of pure DE high school programs where the graduates do not appear to have any problems with applying as freshmen, though many students choose to enroll as juniors.  TAMS students, for example, are known to apply as freshmen (and win scholarships) to universities all over the country, even though they have a minimum of 56 hours of college credit, and some upwards of 90 or more.  TAMS is a highly competitive-entry STEM school run at UNT, and students would not keep coming if they started to hear how their options would be limited afterwards.  I have found no evidence of a single student there having problems.

 

Some of this may come down to the individual discretion of the institution's evaluator, and you may have some choice as to how or if those hours are counted.  However, once you request for ANY credit, the entire transcript will typically be evaluated -- you can't pick and choose. 

 

Imho, your best bet is probably to make sure you are listed as DE on the college's documentation prior to taking any courses as DE, and then check with the institutions you are interested in long-term.  It's always a safe bet to educate yourself and be prepared.

 

I wonder if the university has a policy similar to our local university. Our local state university accepts less than half its freshman applicants. If a student with enough dual enrollment hours is rejected as a freshman applicant, the application is automatically sent to the transfer department. So some dual enrollment students are only accepted as transfer students. If a parent wasn't aware of this policy, he/she may just assume that it was because of the dual enrollment credits that the student was accepted as a transfer student though the student applied as a freshman.

[G5052]

Gosh, that is scary and discouraging.  Do you think it's just because they aren't ready for college-level work, but the parents think they are?  Can I ask what subject you teach?  The CCs here have an entrance exam that you have to be able to pass, which to me, should say that, if you can pass this exam, then you are ready for college level work.   If all the DE students failed, then there was some kind of break down.  Either the exam isn't accurately measuring if the students are ready for college level work, or the students are choosing a class that is too hard for them, or something.  In what areas do you think those DE students are lacking?

 

 

"Ready" is one, thing "organized and willing is another."  Some homeschooled students aren't prepared for rigid schedules, planning ahead for big projects, the volume of work, and reading the syllabus for details. Others are uncomfortable interacting with unfamiliar adults.

 

One semester I had a homeschooled kid who was in there because dad wanted her to get started on college, and she did ZERO homework.  Seriously.  It was her passive-aggressive response. Her dad tracked me down at home in a rage, and I told him to have her log in and show him her grades.  Once he saw how many zeroes she had, he apologized and that was that.

 

Another one would be dropped off by mom and then go in a corner of the student lounge with the gaming group.  I rarely saw him in class, but I always seemed to be walking in from the parking lot when mom was there dropping him off.  He'd wave at me and then skip class.

 

And yet another had him pay for the class with birthday money, so she thought he'd be serious about it.  She took him to the library to do "homework" but I never saw the results of that. When he failed, she contacted the college president about getting me fired.  He told her to get my side of the story and get back to him, and he sent me a note to expect her to do that.  Well, same thing again.  I told her to have him log in and look at his scores.  Lots of zeros again.

 

FWIW mine don't do dual enrollment until they show me that they're ready for that level of responsibility, which has ended up later than most.  All good grades though.  

[8filltheheart]

So, for example, if the student wants to take a science class at the local college, just to be able to take a good, rigorous science class, but doesn't want or need or care about it for DE credit, does it still count toward the college GPA? If you are counting it as a high school science credit on the transcript, then it is up to the college as to whether or not it counts in the GPA then?

 

I'm just asking because I'm nervous about this counting toward the GPA thing! I think it would be great to take advantage of some great local colleges to take classes, but if you get anything less than an A, I'm afraid that could hurt more than help.

 

Oh, maybe you could just take it pass/fail?

I think it really helps to step back and evaluate your child's educational background. What was their input AND output load? How good are they at self-regulation and staying on task? What is their work ethic? How do they handle material they need to study or put in extra effort to master? Do they need monitoring? Are they used to flexible due dates and skating by on the minimum?

 

Not a single homeschool resembles another. The success and failure of other homeschool students really is not an indicator of what will happen with your own children. Some kids really struggle. Some kids maintain 4.0s.

[madteaparty]

I think it really helps to step back and evaluate your child's educational background. What was their input AND output load? How good are they at self-regulation and staying on task? What is their work ethic? How do they handle material they need to study or put in extra effort to master? Do they need monitoring? Are they used to flexible due dates and skating by on the minimum?

 

Not a single homeschool resemble another. The success and failure of other homeschool students really is not an indicator of what will happen with your own children. Some kids really struggle. Some kids maintain 4.0s.

This is a good point. My DS10 is currently taking a high school level french class and while his vocab and accent are far better than the other kids (per the teacher, I don't listen in), managing homework and turning it in on time has been a challenge. It's just the amount that's the issue. But it's a learnable skill: the second semester is far better than the first (and he was nowhere near failing on the first place).

[G5052]

This is a good point. My DS10 is currently taking a high school level french class and while his vocab and accent are far better than the other kids (per the teacher, I don't listen in), managing homework and turning it in on time has been a challenge. It's just the amount that's the issue. But it's a learnable skill: the second semester is far better than the first (and he was nowhere near failing on the first place).

 

Yes, age is not the primary factor when a student is successful with dual enrollment.  I've taught several who were 15 1/2 (the youngest this college takes them) who aced it.  I know of about a dozen homeschooled 17-18 y.o. who graduate from homeschooling and got their associate's degree on the same day.

 

But saying that they're 15 1/2 and sending them off without evaluating the whole picture is a big mistake.  Evaluate their maturity and ability to navigate a tougher class with deadlines, and start out slow.

 

Several years ago I taught the 16 y.o. of a friend in the summer. It was her first dual enrollment class and this is family that was experienced with dual enrollment.  She wanted to take it then because of State Fair in the fall even though she was very, very busy with her livestock in the summer.  And she got a "D."  She just couldn't keep up with the level of work.

 

She went on to retake it and graduated with all A's other than that one course, then finished a degree in international business at a nationally-ranked school.  She's now in an MBA program at another nationally-ranked school. 

 

So messing up with her first dual enrollment class didn't hold her back at all, but she did learn from her mistake.  Doing just one to start with was the right thing too.

[mamakelly]

My son had 28 college credits when he graduated from high school, and was still considered a freshman in college. After finishing his first semester of full-time college he is now considered a Sophomore, because he has 44 units of credit.

[AngieW in Texas]

I'm also in Texas. 

 

My oldest had 42 hours of dual credit and was accepted as a freshman at UT Dallas. All of her credits transferred although one of her classes transferred as a general elective (Digital Imaging I).

 

My middle had 36 hours of dual credit and was accepted as a freshman at UT Dallas. All of her credits transferred although one of her classes transferred as a general elective (Programming Fundamentals for non-cs majors).

 

Specific schools do have limits for how many DE credits they will accept and still allow the student to enroll as a freshman. You have to check with the school. None of the schools my kids have been interested in have had a limit on the number of dual enrollment credits as long as the courses were taken while still in high school.

[MarkT]

To address several of the posts, my DS is 10; I am just trying to create some high school options*for when the time comes* since we are in a bit of a bind and I'd rather not homeschool high school if it can be helped. Homeschooling was not my first choice in the first place.

 

His friend is taking CC classes at 12, but she is far more gifted than he is.  She took a placement test like any incoming student.

The CC may choose not to enroll a student before a certain age or grade - of course there are always exceptions to every rule

 

More than likely the future college will just ignore some of the credits and start your child as a freshman