Should I teach the 5 paragraph essay

[nukeswife]

My kids are 15 (9th grade) 13 (7th grade) and 9 (3rd grade)  This question is more geared toward the older two for now.  

 

We plan to have our kids take the ACT because that's what the colleges they would choose want them to take.  We DO NOT plan on taking the writing portion of said test (my kids don't enjoy writing and LA is not their strong subject area)  

 

Neither of them have learned the 5 paragraph essay, and I'm wondering if it's really worth it to teach it.  

 

We've struggled with writing so, have been playing catch up this year with them (especially the high schooler) and will get back to WWS 1 (we tried it and had to step back due to frustrations) starting in Jan, but I don't know if I want to take some time to work on the 5 paragraph essay first.  I'm not sure if it's really needed or if it would hinder my kids in some way. 

 

I don't remember being taught anything about writing in school, it's like we were just expected to know what to do.

 

Clarifying my wording on "hindering" my kids.  My kids although pretty NT, are very black and white type thinkers,  If I teach them the 5PE, they are very likely to consider it the be all and end all no matter what  I tell them, which is why I'm hesitating.

 

 

Clarifying again.  I really need to make sure I'm clear in my posts, sorry for any confusion.  I will teach them essay writing, I'm not asking "should I teach essay writing or not teach essay writing"  I'm asking if the 5PE is really that important of a formula or not.  

[Arcadia]

My older boy learn that in PS around 3rd grade. He finds it too restrictive to follow. For kids in school, the five paragraph essay and the hamburger model was to kickstart the writing.

 

Both of my boys are reluctant writers. They find getting an outline done well (prewriting) to be more useful for writing a coherent essay.

[Daria]

I don't think that the 5 paragraph essay is "essential", but I do think it can be a helpful stepping stone to learning the kind of essay forms that are expected in high school and college level courses.  I just started homeschooling, and my kid is past the age when it's taught in PS, so I don't need to decide whether to teach it, but if I chose not to teach this specific form, I'd want to make sure that I had another plan for helping my kid to understand the structure of an academic essay.  

 

I would also say that 7th grade (and 9th really) is very young to have decided what college to apply to, and to have ruled out every school that asks for the ACT with essay, SAT subject tests, AP's etc . . .  At that age, my focus would be on keeping options open rather than preparing for a specific school.

[texasmama]

My bias is that it is best to teach at least a cursory understanding of the five paragraph essay, as it is ubiquitous.  It should not take long to do this.

[Chris in VA]

I think it's a useful tool, but can be rigid. I think it's good to introduce what goes (or can go) into a topic paragraph/thesis (you know--start broad and narrow down), how to link paragraphs through good transitions, and how to conclude.

 

It's sort of a "down and dirty" format, and that can be helpful as a start. It's just one tool, though.

[nukeswife]

Just wanted to add that The states my kids would want to go to school in only have a handful of colleges that would "recommend" the ACT with writing, but none actually REQUIRE it.  They are not interested in college in states where the SAT is the preferred test.   I don't see this as restricting them.  This is their choice not mine.  They both have very clear ideas of which parts of the country they want to go to school in if at all. 

[Laura Corin]

I think that essay structure is important, but that can be taught without learning the 5 paragraph essay.  It's important to write a good introduction that leads into a series of well-structured paragraphs and wraps up with a decent conclusion.

 

L

[Daria]

We'll have to agree to disagree, because I see holding someone to what they were interested in at 13 as restricting them.  13 year olds deserve the freedom to dream and also the freedom to change their minds.  But they aren't my kids, so I'll drop the topic.  

[nukeswife]

We'll have to agree to disagree, because I see holding someone to what they were interested in at 13 as restricting them.  13 year olds deserve the freedom to dream and also the freedom to change their minds.  But they aren't my kids, so I'll drop the topic.  

Where did I ever say that she couldn't change her mind?

[go_go_gadget]

The 5-paragraph essay *is* restrictive and entirely unappealing, but can be essential in some contexts. Many universities have a writing skills assessment that requires it. Mine did, and while it felt ridiculous (who writes a 5-paragraph essay after fifth grade?), it really was what they wanted. Having a formula to follow makes the grading faster.

[8filltheheart]

I teach my kids essay writing, but not the five paragraph essay.  Sometimes their essays are 5 paragraphs in length b/c that is how long it takes them to argue their position, not b/c it is a 5 paragraph essay.  

[Daria]

Where did I ever say that she couldn't change her mind?

 

When you stated that you already have decided what tests she'll take her senior year, and are planning her instruction now to align with that.  

[Carol in Cal.]

My DD attended a brick and mortar high school and they emphasized the 5 paragraph essay (ridiculously IMO).  That's pretty common among her friends as well.  So it's a common form for high school teachers (who tend to be test graders) to look for, hence good to know.  Having said that, I would not have taught it if it restricted her from other forms, but rather as one tool in a big toolbox.  One way to approach that is to use Jenson's Format Writing, which I believe is still a WTM recommendation, to teach several formats, and then to look at a list of prompts now and then and talk through which format to use in responding to each one. 

[nukeswife]

When you stated that you already have decided what tests she'll take her senior year, and are planning her instruction now to align with that.  

I said I planned to have them take certain tests.  She also would be taking the tests in her JUNIOR year, not senior, but whatever.  Just because I say I have a plan doesn't mean I'm some cruel person that will never allow her to change her mind and or adjust that plan.  I've been homeschooling my kids for 8 years, this isn't my first rodeo,  I know that things don't always go the way you plan and that sometimes you have to change the plan, which is why I'm asking this question in the first place. 

[nukeswife]

Part of my curiosity is because many of us follow WTM some loosely some strictly, but I noticed that the 5 paragraph essay isn't in WWS.

[shinyhappypeople]

Where did I ever say that she couldn't change her mind?

 

:grouphug:   

 

Anyway, back on topic....

 

I'd focus on essay structure.  It shouldn't be that difficult for your kids to adapt to specific writing assignments, if they have mastered the overall structure of an essay. 

[8filltheheart]

FWIW, I absolutely in NO WAY want my children's writing to resemble SAT/ACT essay writing. :)   I want my kids to be excellent communicators who know how to present a strong argument. Period.  Standardized testing is not a focus or a goal.

[chepyl]

We learned the 5 paragraph essay in high school. It was one of many formats we learned. It was an important skill for me because so many of my high school (and then college) exams had essay sections.

 

I had spent so much time practicing the method that I could write one in less than 5 minutes. I think it is a good format for spewing information quickly on a test.

 

We also learned outlining, notecards, and many other methods of wiring fiction and non-fiction. I think it is good to have a lot of tools in the toolbox. :)

[Ellie]

If your children know how to write well, they would be able to come up with five paragraphs with brief instructions on what it meant to write only five paragraphs. Neither of my dds learned that at home; both aced their college English courses (plus their other classes that required writing, none of which were constrained to only five paragraphs).

[8filltheheart]

I agree, Ellie. My kids have always made As on their writing assignments in college, even my math/science kids. If kids have solid writing skills, adapting their style to the situation/prof's requirements, etc is simple to do. Learning to write via formulaic 5 paragraph structure and then needing to modify is not the equivalent scenario.

[almondbutterandjelly]

I found the Remedia Outlining books to be a helpful pre-cursor to WWS 1.  I would recommend going through those with your kids, rather than focusing on a 5 paragraph essay.  

[BusyMom5]

I think it is important, and a good starting point to essay writing.  It's introduced in 5th or 6th grade as an introductory to writing an essay.  It helps them to organize their thoughts and get them onto paper.  At 13 and 9th grade, I would think that teaching it would be fairly easy.  I know I had to write some in college, and I Just asked a current college student this weekend if she had to write them, and she said yes.  They often have 2 or 3 per test in some classes!  Being able to write one quickly will help them in college, and the formula is really simple.  I guess I don't see why you would choose not to, when it's a very common type of essay question.   It isn't like this is the only type of writing you would teach, or the only type of writing that is acceptable.  I think it's important to be able to write several different types of essays, as well as form letters and do correct documentation in your writing sources.  All of those are skills I want them to have before they go to college. 

[8filltheheart]

I guess I just don't see why you need to teach it.  If a student knows how to write an essay, simply writing a 3 supporting paragraph essay is a no-brainer.  It isn't really a real essay "form."  It is far more a formula.   A strong math student that knows how to derive the quadratic formula is going to have no problem plugging #s into the formula and solving.   Same goes with a 5 paragraph essay.

 

If you want to teach, go for it.  But, students should be fine without it.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I essentially teach it, but I always say it's just one possibility.  Sometimes one is asked to do a five paragraph essay.  Most of the time the requirement isn't that rigid.  But whether you write five paragraphs or five pages, the skills are similar. 

 

 

[Mom22ns]

I think that essay structure is important, but that can be taught without learning the 5 paragraph essay.  It's important to write a good introduction that leads into a series of well-structured paragraphs and wraps up with a decent conclusion.

 

L

 

This is key in my mind. You should teach your kids to write an essay. Teach them to write a good introduction and a good conclusion. Vary the number of paragraphs they need to use to support their point. Once they can do that, then they are in the position to write any essay, whether it is for the ACT, for a test response in college, for a short paper assigned, or whatever. There are many times that the ability to write an essay is important. Don't skip essay writing. However, 5 paragraphs is a random number and should be treated that way.

[athomeontheprairie]

When you stated that you already have decided what tests she'll take her senior year, and are planning her instruction now to align with that.

Just an aside... not a single one of the major universities here require the SAT over the ACT. Most preferred ACT. and all of the local colleges use ACT none use SATs. it could be that mom is assuming her child will go somewhere within their geographic location, and that the majority of those schools use that ACT so it would make sense for her child to take that test versus the other. mom is being practical here.

 

for the topic at hand, if writing isn't your child's strong suit this could be a good tool to teach it to them. but it is only one of many tools.

[GrammarGirl]

I've had a number of students thank me for teaching them the 5-paragraph essay when I taught high school English. One needed to write one for a placement test to take dual-enrollment courses just days after we covered it in my 10th grade class. No, it's not an appropriate structure for all compositions, but it is a very good tool for learning to write and defend a thesis logically and coherently.

 

I also taught college English courses. Our entire department taught the 5-paragraph structure. No matter what the AP tests ask for and what others may say, in academia, the well-structured 5-paragraph is still in use.

[8filltheheart]

I've had a number of students thank me for teaching them the 5-paragraph essay when I taught high school English. One needed to write one for a placement test to take dual-enrollment courses just days after we covered it in my 10th grade class. No, it's not an appropriate structure for all compositions, but it is a very good tool for learning to write and defend a thesis logically and coherently.

 

I also taught college English courses. Our entire department taught the 5-paragraph structure. No matter what the AP tests ask for and what others may say, in academia, the well-structured 5-paragraph is still in use.

 

I think the difference is probably in the background writing experience of your students.  I can't imagine waiting until 10th grade to teach essay writing.  My academic goals for my kids is for them to have mastered the essay format in middle school so that high school is spent developing/improving argument and style.

 

I just asked my college freshman if they used the 5 paragraph essay in his English class.  (He took an honors English course that combined 101 and 102 together.) He said his professor vehemently opposed the 5 paragraph essay construction and told them they had to get beyond that format in order to focus on quality academic writing.  He said she told them if it turned out to be 5 paragraphs, fine, but that 5 paragraphs is not normally enough information for your argument and that relying on that structure is a crutch.  (FWIW, he made an A in that class.)

 

I honestly don't think my kids have ever turned in a 5 paragraph paper in college.  In class essay, maybe.  It is hard to write much more than that in 20 mins.  But as an assignment, I sincerely doubt it.  I have seen my ds's papers from this semester and most of them were 4-6 pages without his bibliography.  

[Farrar]

I guess I just don't see why you need to teach it.  If a student knows how to write an essay, simply writing a 3 supporting paragraph essay is a no-brainer.  It isn't really a real essay "form."  It is far more a formula.   A strong math student that knows how to derive the quadratic formula is going to have no problem plugging #s into the formula and solving.   Same goes with a 5 paragraph essay.

 

If you want to teach, go for it.  But, students should be fine without it.

 

Here's what I don't understand in the discussions about the "Five Paragraph Essay"... To me, what you're describing - an intro, supporting paragraphs, a conclusion - is exactly what I was taught in school was a 5PE/hamburger structure. I was always taught that five paragraphs was just a loose suggestion - a way to start, a sort of goal for many assignments, but not a hard and fast rule. That more complex assignments would inevitably require more paragraphs and that simpler ones, particularly on timed essays, might even require fewer.

 

Sometimes I hear these things about how "the 5PE is dead!" or that it's rigid and formulaic. I find it to be super flexible and a useful beginning essay structure for most students. I don't believe in the way they teach it in many public schools these days, especially the way that some kids are supposed to be writing them in early elementary school for goodness sakes. Or the way that some teachers teach it as having these bizarre "rules" that can't be broken. A few that kids in my classes were told before they came to me included: the thesis must be the first sentence of the intro, the thesis must be the only sentence in the intro, the thesis must be the last sentence of the intro, the thesis must be one sentence, there must be five paragraphs exactly, the conclusion must not contain any words not in the introduction, the conclusion must only restate the thesis and nothing else... I could go on. Ugh. But there have always been and always will be teachers who take reasonable, positive ideas - like showing your work in math or using less passive voice in writing - who turn those things into rigid nightmare rules for students that are not conducive to learning at all.

 

When you throw out these stupid, nonexistent rules, then you're just left with a reasonable basic structure of intro, supporting/elaborating paragraphs, conclusion/summary. A few times recently, I've heard that students aren't supposed to use the 5PE format on the ACT/SAT/AP exam essays and I admit my heart sort of stopped. Seriously? What are they supposed to use then?

 

It sounds like I agree with everything you're saying about writing... except that I don't see how it isn't this structure that has gotten such a negative rap.

[8filltheheart]

It sounds like I agree with everything you're saying about writing... except that I don't see how it isn't this structure that has gotten such a negative rap.

 

It really boils down to why teach it.  If you teach solid essay writing, the number of paragraphs is completely irrelevant.  Why 5?  If it is 5, then that is what it took to prove your argument.  But the emphasis should be on developing and supporting your argument and totally disconnected from a certain number of paragraphs. It is inaccurate to make the assumption that 3 main points fully develop a thesis--sometimes it takes less, most of the time it takes more.

[Farrar]

It really boils down to why teach it.  If you teach solid essay writing, the number of paragraphs is completely irrelevant.  Why 5?  If it is 5, then that is what it took to prove your argument.  But the emphasis should be on developing and supporting your argument and totally disconnected from a certain number of paragraphs. It is inaccurate to make the assumption that 3 main points fully develop a thesis--sometimes it takes less, most of the time it takes more.

 

I agree with this. I guess what we're hitting is just a terminology issue. I was taught - perhaps this is unusual - that the "five paragraph essay" doesn't have to have five paragraphs. It's just a name for the basic essay structure. And that five is just a starter, so to speak.

 

So when people say that students should not be writing 5PEs on standardized testing, do you interpret that to simply mean that they should not feel like they need to adhere to five paragraphs specifically, not that they shouldn't use the basic structure of an intro, paragraphs with supporting/elaborating points, and conclusion?

[8filltheheart]

 

So when people say that students should not be writing 5PEs on standardized testing, do you interpret that to simply mean that they should not feel like they need to adhere to five paragraphs specifically, not that they shouldn't use the basic structure of an intro, paragraphs with supporting/elaborating points, and conclusion?

 

When I discuss writing with my high school age kids, I tell them NOT to write in the formulaic style that is an introductory paragraph that states it is going to be hitting on these 3 pts, then develops those 3 pts,and then has a concluding paragraph summarizing the 3 pts.  An introductory paragraph is not necessarily required to contain a summation of every one of your supporting details. Rather, you can use it to introduce the logical reasoning behind your argument.   It just has the opportunity to be so much more than the typical 5 paragraph intro. Same with the conclusion.  

[Farrar]

When I discuss writing with my high school age kids, I tell them NOT to write in the formulaic style that is an introductory paragraph that states it is going to be hitting on these 3 pts, then develops those 3 pts,and then has a concluding paragraph summarizing the 3 pts.  An introductory paragraph is not necessarily required to contain a summation of every one of your supporting details. Rather, you can use it to introduce the logical reasoning behind your argument.   It just has the opportunity to be so much more than the typical 5 paragraph intro. Same with the conclusion.  

 

I agree. That's how I've always taught it as well. What you list, to me, are just more of those rules that aren't rules that bad, inflexible teachers try to lay atop the essay format, purportedly to make it easier for students. The introduction paragraph or paragraphs are, IMO, the hardest for kids to learn to write well. But also maybe the most important. I also think the introduction is the most flexible with the most possible formats depending on your intended audience or subject matter.

 

I guess I'm just thinking that a lot of this is that the underlying idea behind the 5PE - or, the structured thesis essay or whatever you want to call it - is positive. It's a very loose framework. But it has, over the years, gotten a terrible reputation by being taught so poorly for so long. So that now everyone is keen to distance themselves from it and say what they're doing is clearly something else. When in reality, many are basically still using it - it has stood the test of time.

[8filltheheart]

I don't think many are still embracing it outside of public high schools.

 

I did a quick google and found this handout on UNC Chapel Hill's website about why students need to move beyond a 5 paragraph essay.  

http://writingcenter.unc.edu/handouts/college-writing/

 

A student being taught at home can definitely cast it to the wind a lot earlier.  :)

[Daria]

At the high school where I teach, the 9th grade English teachers start off the years teaching the kids to go beyond the 5 paragraph structure.  They see it as a very middle school thing.  Kids might use the structure on the constructed response portion of an exam, or on a quick response in a content area class, but they're also moving on to writing longer more sophisticated essays. 

 

But even though I think of 5 paragraph essays as stepping stones, they're also a great tool for teaching kids how to organize their thoughts.  I'm sure they aren't the only way, and that there are kids who write naturally and won't need that support at all, but for many kids they're a great tool.  If my kid reached middle school and couldn't organize a cohesive essay of 4 - 8 paragraphs, I'd probably teach the 5 paragraph essay, simply because it's efficient, and because there are so many materials to choose from that teach the form.

 

To say "well you don't need them in college" is true, but it sort of misses the point.   There are lots of things we use to educate our kids, like books with pictures on every page and math manipulatives and bilingual dictionaries, that we kids eventually move beyond.  

[8filltheheart]

The original question was not about whether or not to teach essay writing, but whether or not to teach the 5 paragraph essay.   She stated she was going to teach essay writing.

[nukeswife]

The original question was not about whether or not to teach essay writing, but whether or not to teach the 5 paragraph essay.   She stated she was going to teach essay writing.

Thank you 8FillTheHeart, I appreciate all you've had to say on the subject.

 

Daria, I'm not sure what your problem is with me, but I'm wondering if it's because of the perspective you're coming from.  I'm not trying to recreate public school at home.  If I wanted my kids to have a public school education I'd send them to Public School.  

[IsabelC]

I will be teaching it to only one of my three children: the one who is extremely poor at written expression. I think it's a fantastic tool for kids who, for whatever reason, wouldn't otherwise be able to produce any sort of essay at all -  sort of analogous to teaching certain autistic kids 'clues' for deciphering facial expressions - but not necessary for most kids who are progressing 'normally' with their writing. I agree with the suggestion that really good essays don't slavishly follow any particular formula (I always got top marks for my essays and I hadn't even heard of 5 para essays until fairly recently), but for kids who aren't likely to ever reach 'really good', they can at least aspire to a solid C level piece of writing (which would be a triumph for my son who currently can't tell the difference between a whole sentence and a fragment/clause).

[idnib]

.

[Serenade]

Sigh.  I never even heard of the 5 paragraph essay until reading TWTM forums.  

 

I graduated in 1981, and I took Advanced Comp in high school, but somehow the 5 paragraph essay was not part of our instruction.  

[Arcadia]

I wonder how popular this format is abroad. Almost a million students go higher education in the U.S. come from other countries to study here. Do they learn it before they come? Is it a hinderance to them if they don't know it?

Hubby and I didn't learn it. My nephews and nieces back home that are school age didn't learn it.

When you (general) go to college in any country including your home country, you go for what the lecturer ask for. If a lecturer ask for the assignment to be in that format, then just do in the requested format. No need for prior learning.

 

It's like growing up learning British spelling and easily switching to American spelling when needed.

 

ETA:

I wrote over four thousand words for my GCE 'A' levels General Paper exam which is taken at 12th grade. I was so bored I counted. I average 250 words per A4 foolscap paper and I submitted a stack. I chose an argumentative essay. I did ace that exam.

[GrammarGirl]

Here's what I don't understand in the discussions about the "Five Paragraph Essay"... To me, what you're describing - an intro, supporting paragraphs, a conclusion - is exactly what I was taught in school was a 5PE/hamburger structure. I was always taught that five paragraphs was just a loose suggestion - a way to start, a sort of goal for many assignments, but not a hard and fast rule. That more complex assignments would inevitably require more paragraphs and that simpler ones, particularly on timed essays, might even require fewer.

 

Sometimes I hear these things about how "the 5PE is dead!" or that it's rigid and formulaic. I find it to be super flexible and a useful beginning essay structure for most students. I don't believe in the way they teach it in many public schools these days, especially the way that some kids are supposed to be writing them in early elementary school for goodness sakes. Or the way that some teachers teach it as having these bizarre "rules" that can't be broken. A few that kids in my classes were told before they came to me included: the thesis must be the first sentence of the intro, the thesis must be the only sentence in the intro, the thesis must be the last sentence of the intro, the thesis must be one sentence, there must be five paragraphs exactly, the conclusion must not contain any words not in the introduction, the conclusion must only restate the thesis and nothing else... I could go on. Ugh. But there have always been and always will be teachers who take reasonable, positive ideas - like showing your work in math or using less passive voice in writing - who turn those things into rigid nightmare rules for students that are not conducive to learning at all.

 

When you throw out these stupid, nonexistent rules, then you're just left with a reasonable basic structure of intro, supporting/elaborating paragraphs, conclusion/summary. A few times recently, I've heard that students aren't supposed to use the 5PE format on the ACT/SAT/AP exam essays and I admit my heart sort of stopped. Seriously? What are they supposed to use then?

 

It sounds like I agree with everything you're saying about writing... except that I don't see how it isn't this structure that has gotten such a negative rap.

Excellent explanation! I've taught my students that the 5PE is an excellent basic structure that can easily be expanded to a much longer paper. While some posters are saying a 5PE is a middle-school assignment, I have found most high schoolers and college freshman need to relearn the 5PE because they have not been taught to organize and develop their ideas. Once they work on a few 5PEs, they can move on to longer works. FWIW, I have taught in all private schools and the college I taught in was a 4-year liberal arts college, not a comm. college. Most didn't get good writing instruction when they were younger, but even for those who had, I still like having them work on argumentative 5PEs because at 17 and 18, most kids are still working on articulation and logic.

 

About the SAT essay, I've had students use a 5PE structure and score very high. I had two excellent students thank me profusely for teaching them the 5PE after they got their scores.

 

I almost threw up on an AP test prep manual when it told students to disregard structure in favor of being more daring and risky. The manual claimed that a student who took the time to use a structure wouldn't produce creative enough thoughts. Poppycock! The student who has *sufficient practice* with structure is not at all hindered in his ability to write engagingly.

[Rosie_0801]

Well I voted that it's not necessary, although I took into account OP's plans for standardized testing.

 

I wonder how popular this format is abroad. Almost a million students go higher education in the U.S. come from other countries to study here. Do they learn it before they come? Is it a hinderance to them if they don't know it? 

 

Just curious.

 

I did a humanities degree and we got told to go away and write 4,000 words. Occasionally we'd have to write 1,000 words. 4,000 is easier.

[Laura Corin]

Well I voted that it's not necessary, although I took into account OP's plans for standardized testing.

 

I wonder how popular this format is abroad. Almost a million students go higher education in the U.S. come from other countries to study here. Do they learn it before they come? Is it a hinderance to them if they don't know it? 

 

Just curious.

 

It's unknown in the UK.  We are taught essay structure, but it is just well-structured introduction, as many paras as you need, conclusion.

 

L

[8filltheheart]

I didn't really know this was such a contentious topic among universities and teachers. Following on Farrar's comments, I did some googling. As someone who has never taught my kids a 5 paragraph essay model, I find no appeal in the methodology. But outside in school-land, it is apparently a hot topic. Guess that is why so many people are eating cupcakes. ;)

 

Anyway, Nukeswife, I found a couple of links that might affirm your decision to not teach the 5 paragraph essay since you really don't want to. I am linking them for anyone who is interested in not feeling compelled to teach the 5 paragraph style. For those that love the methodology behind the 5 paragraph essay, I encourage you to NOT follow these links. You need to to teach in a way that you feel comfortable teaching and follow your own convictions, The last thing I want to do is undermine anyone's confidence in teaching writing. Many find it daunting to begin with, so stick with what works for you.

 

http://www.nwp.org/cs/public/print/resource/3940(this is an hr long interview with women who did research on the effects of teaching the 5 paragraph model. In full disclosure, I read a couple of articles reviewing their book, but I didn't listen to this interview.--- Ok, I listened to a portion, I would skip this. It is different than the articles I read.)

 

http://www.csun.edu/%7Ebashforth/406_PDF/406_Genre/00Sep_EJ_IllEffects5ParaEssay.pdf(This is an article discussing how students have ingrained the 5 paragraph model and the effects it has on their writing.)

[Ellie]

http://www.csun.edu/%7Ebashforth/406_PDF/406_Genre/00Sep_EJ_IllEffects5ParaEssay.pdf(This is an article discussing how students have ingrained the 5 paragraph model and the effects it has on their writing.)

 

I love this article. No...I big pink puffy heart this article. I have saved it for future reference.

 

I wonder when the five-paragraph-theme concept became popular? It was definitely not taught when I was in school (I graduated in 1969).

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yes, this article is brilliant and I finally understand what y'all are arguing about!  As the author states, you can teach kids to write an introduction, a body, and a conclusion, and teach them about the rhetorical purpose of each "unit" of the essay, which gives them an effective means of planning and structuring their essay, without teaching the "5 paragraph theme" the way she describes it, which I would have assumed was a caricature of what kids are actually being taught, but apparently not.

 

Anyway, thanks for sharing that article.  I also agree with the author that a good way to help students think rhetorically is to have them analyze and critique essays, looking for the units and the rhetorical purposes of each, and understanding when they are and are not presented effectively.

[Momling]

I've always thought about it like this...

 

When you teach someone how to bake... you might give them something like a simple fail-safe sugar cookie recipe to start with. The five paragraph essay is like a simple recipe. It may not produce great pastries but to a beginning cook it can be a big help. It teaches about combining ingredients and proportions and how to create something. In time, the hope is that the student will leave behind the recipe and begin experimenting and try more complicated dishes.

 

A five paragraph essay will not serve a student well in later academics, but it produces a simple piece of writing that makes a fine starting place. I think five paragraph essays are great for middle school and early high school students to learn how to write an essay. A good teacher will then move them towards more complex techniques and forms of writing.

 

So yes - five paragraph essays are great training wheels, but they are not the be-all and end-all of essay writing techniques.

[Farrar]

I think it's just down to terminology. I was always taught 5PE and "thesis paper" as sort of interchangable terms. I very much agree with most of the reasons that people are against teaching it. It's why I like the later term much better. Or just "essay." But this...

 

I almost threw up on an AP test prep manual when it told students to disregard structure in favor of being more daring and risky. The manual claimed that a student who took the time to use a structure wouldn't produce creative enough thoughts. Poppycock! The student who has *sufficient practice* with structure is not at all hindered in his ability to write engagingly.

 

...is something I've also seen in some sources - throw out all conventions! don't bother with any structure at all! reinvent wheels at will (during a 30 minute timed essay no less)! - as a sort of alternative to the so-called 5PE and that I find laughable and absurd. A good essay has a sense of structure that the reader can follow. And if the structure isn't intro, supporting points, conclusion, I'd really like to know what it is. I think - thank goodness - in this thread, we're all talking about using that basic approach. But there is a sense in some of the literature of test prep these days that you should not use that approach. You should forge your own path. It honestly makes no sense to me.

[8filltheheart]

Farrar, I think it is b/c there is no common definiton being used for what constitutes the 5 paragraph essay.   In the article I linked, it defines it the same way I have always seen it taught:

 

 

As it is usually taught, the FPT requires (1) an introductory paragraph moving from a generality to an explicit thesis statement and announcement of three points in support of that thesis, (2) three middle paragraphs, each of which begins with a topic sentence restating one of the major ideas supporting the thesis and then develops the topic sentence (with a minimum of three sentences in most models), and (3) a concluding paragraph restating the thesis and points. (67)  (emphasis mine)

http://www.csun.edu/~bashforth/406_PDF/406_Genre/00Sep_EJ_IllEffects5ParaEssay.pdf

 

In the UNC-Chapel Hill pdf they also describe the same structure:

 

Alex, preparing to write her first college history paper, decides to write a five-paragraph theme, just like she learned from Mr. Highschool. She begins by thinking, “What are three points I can talk about to compare the reasons the North and South fought the Civil War?†She does a little brainstorming, and she says, “Well, in class, Professor College talked about the economy, politics, and slavery. I guess I can do a paper about that.†So she writes her introduction:

• A civil war occurs when two sides in a single country become so angry at each other that they turn to violence. The Civil War between North and South was a major conflict that nearly tore apart the young United States. The North and South fought the Civil War for many reasons. In some cases, these reasons were the same, but in other cases they were very different. In this paper, I will compare and contrast these reasons by examining the economy, politics, and slavery.

This is a classic five-paragraph theme introduction: it goes from the general to the specific, and it introduces the three points that will be the subjects of each of the three body paragraphs.

http://writingcenter.unc.edu/handouts/college-writing/

That is the same structure I mentioned in one of my earlier posts and one I have seen in student writing.   It is really a formula.  I do not think what you are personally describing reflects what I think is considered the 5 paragraph standard.  It sounds like you are referring to the generalized structure of introducing topic, supporting your thesis, and concluding thoughts.  That is the basic solid skeletal structure of all good writing.  I don't think you and I are in disagreement.