Why is conservation "optional" for some people?

[sdWTMer]

What we do have is the capacity to destroy all life upon it.

 

I don't even know how to respond to this. I don't see how you could possibly say that.

 

:001_huh:

 

I guess for me it is faith that all will be good. I believe to have a cup half full rather than a cup half empty. I think that as Americans we are doing quite a lot to better things here. I would just rather find the good rather than the bad, ugly, and be miserable.

[Plucky]

Maybe you should limit that to a whole Australian mindset because I don't know anyone with a vision like that. I'm not a fundamentalist Christian. I am a Christian. I don't know the kind of person you described especially lumped into a group. I do know the Christian Salmon expert with a phd from Evergreen College. His calling is to share with people how we are stewards of the Earth.

[Parabola]

I don't even know how to respond to this. I don't see how you could possibly say that.

 

:001_huh:

 

I guess for me it is faith that all will be good. I believe to have a cup half full rather than a cup half empty. I think that as Americans we are doing quite a lot to better things here. I would just rather find the good rather than the bad, ugly, and be miserable.

 

Actually I'm not miserable. Saddened maybe, at times. I agree, I also think that things have improved in recent times. Very recent times. I feel better now about how we are addressing environmental problems then I did several years ago. Progress has been made. But so far its all been baby steps. We have done extensive damage to life on the planet already, and to the systems that support that life. I'm waiting for us to get the courage to really clean things up. I have hope that its on the near horizon.

 

I'd rather find good stuff too, who wouldn't, but I refuse to not see the bad just because of that desire. I don't think faith that all will be good is going to change anything at all, its going to take actual physical and mental action.

[Doran]

Without quoting anyone particularly, I assess that there are two primary influences working on those who choose not to conserve. On the one hand, it is inconvenient. I would have to agree that it's very difficult to conjure up motivation to do something when the effort expended is not worth the return. Possible, but not probable. Mingled amid these thinkers are those who trust what some say about the cost of conserving being more expensive than the cost of not doing so. On the other hand, there is a large body of thought that seems to lean towards conservation not being necessary. This group either believes that our earth's resources are infininte, or that no amount of human intervention will impact the planet one way or the other, so there is no need to inject our behaviors into the matter at all. I also see that, as much as I am passionately convinced that this line of thinking is skewed, others are passionately certain that I am the one whose perspective is lopsided. Such is life.

 

To the premise that environmentalists act as they do out of some peculiar need for an ego boost, I can only speak for myself in saying that nothing could be farther from the truth. While I have long felt that human beings generally act out of selfishness, and I agree that this instance may be no different, I define selfishness as doing something to derive pleasure, and yes, trying to save the planet (IMO) gives me pleasure. It does not make me feel proud of myself, which I equate with ego.

 

I remain perplexed and frustrated, to a large degree. For, while I can enumerate many reasons why *I* believe conservation is not only useful but essential, I cannot comprehend the benefit, for those who specifically choose against, in not doing so. Thus far, to me the arguments in opposition only serve to further bolster my conviction that living conscientiously is the more sustainable thing to do from a global perspective. I can't apologize for that.

 

I'll be chewing on these remarks for a long while.

[tibbyl]

I am too far in to see out anymore, and I am both frustrated and confused. I'm talking about the conservation of resources and about what I consider conscientious living. I have reached a point in my life where I truly cannot understand how anyone could choose to be opposed to these principles. If I excuse the ignorant, I'm left with feeling that those who do are either unbelievably selfish or terrifically short sighted.

 

The other day, my husband told me about a client, one we both know, who refuses to recycle. He explained that the man, in his 40's, who is educated, gainfully employed, and possesses a fair amount of disposable income, feels that there's no point. "Until there is a real market for recycled products," he says, "I can't be bothered." This is just one small example of many that I notice on a regular basis -- individuals who not only don't conserve, but who indirectly discredit the value of others' doing so, people who give nary a thought to saving resources like water, soil, or energy.

 

I do need to qualify that by no means do I see myself as the role model for conservation. Oh, no! There are so many ways I could improve and so many individuals who have taken conservation to a level I have yet to even attempt. I also realize that conservation comes in different packages. One person's Most Valuable Resource may not be another's. I take no issue with this. Yet, I rarely go through a day that I don't at least consider how much water I've just used, or how frivolous a particular choice may be with regard to the planet. I don't always act on those thoughts, and maybe that makes me even more culpable. But, I'm of the opinion that awareness is the first step.

 

What drives a person to be careless (and, yes, I feel it is careless) with our children's future? Is utter disregard for the value of conservation not a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face? What am I missing, or am I being unnecessarily intolerant? Please share your thoughts with me on this. I'm sure I have much to learn.

 

Well, bring on the neg rep; my coffers are low ;). I'll come out and say it. We do not recycle. When we lived in the bigger city with curbside pickup, we did. But where we are in the suburb, it is about a 10 minute one-way drive to recycling drop off point.

 

Long ago, we took a very different but simple approach to conservation by putting the brakes on consumerism. We bought much less than other people in our socioeconomic bracket.

 

If a grocer would sell bulk items from bin, I would gladly carry a reusable refillable containers for those items. When we do purchase goods, we lean towards those with less packaging. If one purchases whole foods, the trash is reduced enormously. I refuse to buy bottled water.

 

Each of us, except for one clotheshorse kiddo, has relatively few items of clothing, some of which are hand me downs or thrift store purchases. Casual clothing is expected to be worn a few times before laundering as appropriate. If someone needs only a few items washed, they wash by hand in sink.

 

We were together 24 years before we purchased new living room furniture.

 

We buy only used cars and keep them an unusually long time without regard to current fashion. One vehicle in the driveway now has 350,000 miles (had about 300,000 miles at purchase date) and another 330,000 + (about 300,000 at purchase date). Two kids use these autos to commute to two different schools. The newer ones have 75,000 and 150,000 + miles. Husband has a 1970s Suzuki motorcycle for economical travel in fair weather; he purchased it used for $500. We take care of as many errands in one trip as possible. If we ever do move again, it will be back into inner or mid city where we can walk to grocery or drugstore.

 

When the kidlets were babes, they wore cloth diapers and Target nylon panty type diaper covers. For laundering diapers, I would through a wash cycle (warm wash/cold rinse) without detergent and then a 2nd cycle with detergent. Diapers were hung out on clothesline to dry along with towels, other linens, and cloth feminine hygiene items. Speaking of towels, each person was assigned a bath towel which they were to use for minimum of 2 weeks, hanging it up to dry after each bath.

 

We do not use paper towels for cleaning up anything but the most disgusting messes. The oldest kid is 21, but we still have a box of cloth diapers doing duty as cleaning rags. I gave up on cloth napkins. Still using same set of kitchen towels I bought in 1982. Often wash dishes by hand. Family kept pulling off a paper towel instead. So now I buy cheap paper napkins. Aluminum foil is washed and recycled whenever possible. Sometimes plastic wrap gets more than one use.

 

Everyone has their Achilles heel. Ours include (not in order of importance) fresh flowers and scented body lotions (for me) ,TV's (for husband and a kid or two), music (for kiddos), books, rented movies, companion animals, kids' friends from chaotic homes, and computers .

 

Honestly, I do not feel any guilt over my failure to recycle at the family level, but I do recognize that my move to suburb was not a wise decision in long run. However, we do tend to support environmentally-conscious elected officials who are willing to tackle the larger issues such as strip mining, clearcutting timber, net fishing, industrial pollutants and emissions, global warming, etc.

[sdWTMer]

Thus far, to me the arguments in opposition only serve to further bolster my conviction that living conscientiously is the more sustainable thing to do from a global perspective. I can't apologize for that.

 

I'll be chewing on these remarks for a long while.

 

I think for a lot of people too, that the environmentalists (true believers) types just give it all a bad name.

 

I think that in America that we conserve a heck of a lot more than we're given credit for.

 

I do my part for recycling, but I would never condemn those who don't.

[Scuff]

We live in a low income area and do not have recycling. Recycling would mean making a trip to the dump personally. As a one car family, that's just not going to happen. Likely wouldn't happen even if we did have a second car, though it might. If we lived in an area with recycling, we would. it felt wierd, when we first married, to throw away stuff instead of washing it and putting it in the bin. *shurg* oh well.

[Remudamom]

I think you must have a very nuanced definition of interesting, at least from my gross perspective.

 

Gotta run. I need to waste some of the earths resources and grill some not-organic burgers on my carbon emitting grill.:D

 

Make room for me. I'm bringing home grown steaks, NOT organic either, and of course I'll bring the rum. I'll drive over in my stinky gas guzzler.

[Peela]

Well, bring on the neg rep; my coffers are low ;). I'll come out and say it. We do not recycle. When we lived in the bigger city with curbside pickup, we did. But where we are in the suburb, it is about a 10 minute one-way drive to recycling drop off point.

 

Honestly, I do not feel any guilt over my failure to recycle at the family level, but I do recognize that my move to suburb was not a wise decision in long run. However, we do tend to support environmentally-conscious elected officials who are willing to tackle the larger issues such as strip mining, clearcutting timber, net fishing, global warming, etc.

 

 

I think you bring up another point entirely....it doesn't sound like you are actually against recycling, as some seem to be...it sounds like you are doing your best under the circumstances of your situation. I don't personally have a problem with that, because it's easy from my middle class, kerb-side-recyced-waste pick up suburban mentality, to judge those who don't separate their rubbish into two piles! But, you care and you see the issues, and it does affect where you put your money and how you live your life, which is different, in my mind to saying there are no issues.

[chaik76]

Let's face it, when we were kids, the earth's resources were still thought to be endless except by those who knew better, and as you say, they were considered extremists. But, that is no longer the case. EVERYWHERE you turn, there are messages about ways to conserve. Recycling happens to be one of the older messages out there. So, with all due respect, I just don't buy the argument of "not being taught". If you are now recycling cans, do you not also think about bottles (glass or plastic) and papers at the same time?

Not really. They're all separate things to me. Plastic bottles, cans, and glass can all go in our recycling. I wouldn't think of paper because there is absolutely nowhere within a fifty mile radius to recycle. When we lived somewhere that only recycled cans, it would never have occurred to me to think of other things that could be recycled.

I know this sounds like I'm attacking you, and that's not my point. Like I said before, I'm so far in that I can't see out. These principles are so much a part of my thinking that I can't imagine NOT thinking about them. Not now. Not when it's so evident.

It really doesn't come across as this evident to me. We don't really have advertising about conservation around here. I can't think of one at all, not on tv, billboards, or anywhere else. I did think of it more when we lived in a large city and it was very, very easy to do because there were recycling bins by the dumpsters. I think maybe it's not quite so evident to other people. You're obviously very aware of this issue. It's really not something that I'm aware of or think of on a daily, or even monthly, basis. But there are other things I do think of daily, that may not even cross your radar!

I just didn't grow up this way. It's still not part of my thinking. I live in a rural area where no one talks about conservation, recycling, or anything else like that. I recycle what they will pick up free...cans, plastic bottles, and glass. I do take cardboard to be recycled because there's a place down the road (literally) and all our cardboard wouldn't fit in the trash anyway.

 

Honestly, unless there's a drought I don't think about my water usage. I only use one side of a sheet of paper...and I print off about 200 pages per day (really). Most of what I buy comes in packaging that gets thrown in the trash, so honestly, I'm probably one of those people you're talking about.

 

To tell the truth, I don't do more because it's not convenient. It's more convenient to get plastic at the grocery store than to take a reusable bag with me, because I have to remember to take the bag (plus, then I can use the bag at home for something). I use disposable diapers (though I occasionally use cloth too) because they're easier...and because it's debatable whether disposables really cause more pollution/waste than cloth because of the water usage, and if you're using a service, the chemicals. I leave all the lights on in my house all the time...I like to have light. I drive a big car with bad gas mileage because I like space.

 

I was once called hedonistic by someone who thinks much like you do, perhaps correctly. I realize by saying this I'm probably making smoke come out your ears! I'm not doing it for that reason, but to let you know why it is that I don't conserve more.

 

There are other issues that are far more important to me than conservation, though I do believe in conservation. I do believe our resources are running out. But honestly, other than what I do, I wouldn't even know what to do, or what would be considered conservation other than the things I mentioned above (and I only thought of those because you mentioned most of them).

[Colleen]

I think for a lot of people too, that the environmentalists (true believers) types just give it all a bad name.

 

I'm too stubborn to make my life choices based on what others are doing ~ or not. I can't fathom resisting conservation because "those people" are giving it a bad name. We can and should consider the relative merits of an activity without regard to the "type" of individuals who engage in that activity.

[Mrs Mungo]

There is a whole fundamentalist Christian vision that thinks the world is doomed anyway, and they will be 'saved' but the rest of us...well, not their problem. It's sick and pervasive.

 

Well, I'm a Christian (although I'm not particularly fundamentalist/legalistic) and I do believe that God will one day reclaim and rebuild the earth. However, I think we've been set as stewards of the earth and we should do what we can to protect it in the meantime. It's been 2,000 years since Christ came the first time, who knows how long it will be before He returns. So, it doesn't logically follow that all Christians who believe in the theology of Revelations don't care what happens between now and then. I do know it's true of some, I've met some of them.

 

I think for a lot of people too, that the environmentalists (true believers) types just give it all a bad name.

 

Again (as I said above), discounting the message because you don't like some of the adherents is just plain silly.

 

I do understand what you're saying. For all of the efforts I *do* make, I do drive a big vehicle. I was actually told by someone (who had no kids) that I *cannot* drive an SUV *and* be a Democrat. :confused: But I don't let it bother me. I'm an equal opportunity eye-roller when it comes to absurd statements from Democrats or Republicans.

[tibbyl]

A couple decades ago, I spent considerable time researching the claim that cloth diapers offered no true energy conservation. The studies that I read assumed an unrealistically expensive price for cloth diapers and assumed that hot water and dryer energy were used in cleaning process. When I compared cost of Pampers to cloth diapers (picked up used ones for a song from diaper service) using my laundering method, cloth was more advantageous economically and environmentally.

 

Oh, in my previous post, I stated I used cloth diapers. But that was only after 1st child. I used disposables with first child because I worked until she was 2 1/2. So I am *not* a cloth diaper soapboxer.

[newbie]

Well, I'm a Christian (although I'm not particularly fundamentalist/legalistic) and I do believe that God will one day reclaim and rebuild the earth. However, I think we've been set as stewards of the earth and we should do what we can to protect it in the meantime. It's been 2,000 years since Christ came the first time, who knows how long it will be before He returns. So, it doesn't logically follow that all Christians who believe in the theology of Revelations don't care what happens between now and then. I do know it's true of some, I've met some of them.

 

 

 

Again (as I said above), discounting the message because you don't like some of the adherents is just plain silly.

 

I do understand what you're saying. For all of the efforts I *do* make, I do drive a big vehicle. I was actually told by someone (who had no kids) that I *cannot* drive an SUV *and* be a Democrat. :confused: But I don't let it bother me. I'm an equal opportunity eye-roller when it comes to absurd statements from Democrats or Republicans.

Can I steal your last sentence, I would love to use it this political season.

 

Jet

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

There are other issues that are far more important to me than conservation, though I do believe in conservation. I do believe our resources are running out. But honestly, other than what I do, I wouldn't even know what to do, or what would be considered conservation other than the things I mentioned above (and I only thought of those because you mentioned most of them).

 

After reading this post and tibbyl's I think it is a great failing among environmentalists that people feel this way. Recycling and conserving is a habit, and for most people (myself included) habits start slowly.

 

Then in tibbyl's post, she talks about doing many things that are helpful, but somehow feels as if she is falling short because it's not the mythical ideal. I think many of us have felt that way about homeschooling a time or two.

 

I think the case is not made strongly enough that this needs to start with one lightbulb kind of stuff. Go out and buy one energy efficient lightbulb and replace one of the bulbs in your house. If everyone did just one piddly thing like that - it's progress. And from there, people can and I believe will start doing more and more.

[sdWTMer]

On some things, sadly, we can't agree, eh?

[chaik76]

Conservation is more than recycling.

 

Remember the three R's of recycling? Recycle is the last one. The only reason it is the most popular one is because reducing and reusing require more effort.

 

Just don't buy the plastic water bottles to begin with, for example. And even Penn and Teller agree that aluminum recycles well, so why are we buying plastic bottles of soft drink? Newspaper can be recycled in one's own front flower bed, just lay it down and cover it with mulch! It disingrates. Or you could do like my family, stop taking the paper and read it online. We take the Sunday paper only, for recreational reasons (what's a Sunday without the paper?)

 

Recyling is not the cornerstone of conservation. Cutting overcomsumption of disposable items is far more important.

There are three "r's" to recycling? What are they?

[Mrs Mungo]

Can I steal your last sentence, I would love to use it this political season.

 

Jet

 

Sure thing, lol.

[Plucky]

I'm an equal opportunity eye-roller when it comes to absurd statements from Democrats or Republicans.

 

Wonderful quote. You should replace your kicking babies one with this. I love it and it really captures your style. :D

[chaik76]

After reading this post and tibbyl's I think it is a great failing among environmentalists that people feel this way. Recycling and conserving is a habit, and for most people (myself included) habits start slowly.

 

Then in tibbyl's post, she talks about doing many things that are helpful, but somehow feels as if she is falling short because it's not the mythical ideal. I think many of us have felt that way about homeschooling a time or two.

 

I think the case is not made strongly enough that this needs to start with one lightbulb kind of stuff. Go out and buy one energy efficient lightbulb and replace one of the bulbs in your house. If everyone did just one piddly thing like that - it's progress. And from there, people can and I believe will start doing more and more.

Well, we do have all energy-saving bulbs in our house! :D

[Mrs Mungo]

Well, we do have all energy-saving bulbs in our house! :D

 

Oh my goodness! You...you...ENVIRONMENTALIST! :lol:

[chaik76]

Oh my goodness! You...you...ENVIRONMENTALIST! :lol:

lol:tongue_smilie:

[Nicole M]

There are three "r's" to recycling? What are they?

 

"Reduce, Re-Use, Recycle" - the principle is threefold, like the triangular, arrow thing that people think of as the 'recycle' sign. The first two principles are often overlooked, and folks think they're doing their part if they just recycle all that packaging. The point here is that recycling should be a last ditch effort, after reducing and re-using are not possible.

[Anne Rittenhouse]

I think people will get conservative about resources when the price in the US finally becomes high enough to hurt. In Europe, we now spend about $1.40 for each twenty gallon trash bag. Water went from $125 per quarter to 150Euros per month. The price of electricity and natural gas doubled and the papers say that they will double again in the New Year.

 

When cheap blue jeans and sneakers run you the equivalent of $200 US dollars, no one gets any new clothing unless you can prove you'll actually be naked. Importing from the US, not possible, everything gets stopped at the border and gets a 40% import tax put on it.

 

The upside to this. Our savings rate also has doubled. We just don't spend anything without a complete family discussion. This weekend's "big" purchase an alarm clock, just one, so no one sleeps in for the start of school. We expect to spend around $60 for something we would have purchase for under $20 at Target in the US.

[Slartibartfast]

Oh my goodness! You...you...ENVIRONMENTALIST! :lol:

 

 

 

Ooohhh...

 

*BURN!!!*

 

What's wrong with environmentalist? :lol:

[sdWTMer]

If we get Obama in the White House, I'm sure that we'd feel it sooner.

[Slartibartfast]

If we get Obama in the White House, I'm sure that we'd feel it sooner.

 

What?

 

I just had a baby and his medical bills are more than my HOUSE is worth.

 

I hope to God no one has to know what that is like, but under McCain's insurance plan (which would do away with the excellent insurance we have currently) we would be bankrupt.

 

I would seriously cry a thousand tears if someone had to recycle some cans. Boo freaking hoo.

[melissel]

I think people will get conservative about resources when the price in the US finally becomes high enough to hurt.

 

This is so true.

 

Here's how I feel about conservation. No, it's NOT easy. I save all our dead batteries (we have rechargeables now, yeah!) and DH takes them when he drive to the recycling center to get our lawn and leaf bags. I work at remembering to take my reusable bags with me to the grocery store, and if I forget, I take the groceries out in my cart and bag them at my car. I combine my errands into as few trips as possible. I used cloth diapers (and some disposables) for five years and two kids. I remember (not always, but often) to fill and bring our reusable bottles when we go out. I Freecycle or donate our unused items rather than just tossing them in the garbage. I recycle carefully, so as little as possible is wasted. None of this is easy. But IMO, nothing worth doing is ever easy.

 

Homeschooling sure isn't easy, but we all have the courage of our convictions here. It matters to us, so we work for it. Heck, having kids is the hardest thing I've ever done, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I'm sure many of you would agree that living a good Christian life isn't always easy, but it fills your souls. Being good stewards of our environment, of the beauty and health and safety of our neighborhoods, our towns, our cities, our states, our country, the luscious and miraculous planet we live on--to me, that's worth working and fighting for, and it drives me crazy when people very casually brush it aside for the convenience of using paper plates at every meal so they don't have to deal with dishes or not recycling when free, easy to use community resources are right there in front of them.

 

This has been a great discussion. I'm amazed to find that so many of you have no access to things like public recycling facilities. But I think, for me, the bottom line is, this planet and the people who live on it are worth the extra effort, at both the micro and macro levels.

 

And again, about the true believers, you can say that about any issue. I've met plenty of true believers in lots of things that have left a VERY bad taste in my mouth. Where would this country be without the true believers, though, eh?

[Mrs Mungo]

What?

 

I just had a baby and his medical bills are more than my HOUSE is worth.

 

I hope to God no one ever knows what that is like, but under McCain's insurance plan we would be bankrupt.

 

I would seriously cry a thousand tears if someone had to recycle some cans. Boo freaking hoo.

 

Some would argue you shouldn't have babies if you can't pay for them. Of course, you also shouldn't take birth control. So, you're pretty much screwed (OR NOT!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!).

[melissel]

Ooohhh...

 

*BURN!!!*

 

What's wrong with environmentalist? :lol:

 

ROFL! Total Michael Kelso moment :D

[Slartibartfast]

Some would argue you shouldn't have babies if you can't pay for them. Of course, you also shouldn't take birth control. So, you're pretty much screwed (OR NOT!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!).

 

 

Isn't there some sort of happy medium??

 

Crippling NICU bills-Perdition

 

Well, at least I wouldn't have to recycle

[Colleen]

I don't hink it's rational to cast an idea aside based on the behaviors & attitudes of others.

[Kelli in TN]

There are three "r's" to recycling? What are they?

 

I said that wrong. It's the three R's of conservation; reduce, reuse, recycle.

 

Sometimes I am such a putz and my posts make no sense. You cannot take my posts at face value, you must read them and then attempt to piece together what I meant to say!

[sdWTMer]

What's rational for me may not be rational for another and vice versa. It doesn't matter what I believe. I'm just sayin'. ;)

 

I guess for me it's not a hill I want to die on.

[Kelli in TN]

 

I think the case is not made strongly enough that this needs to start with one lightbulb kind of stuff. Go out and buy one energy efficient lightbulb and replace one of the bulbs in your house. .

 

 

That was the hardest change for me to make, believe it or not. My so-not-an-environmentalist husband kept putting those bulbs in our fixtures and I would go around and swap them out for regular bulbs. I hated the funky tint from them so much.

 

I have been seeing more variety of the energy efficient bulbs in our stores lately and some of them don't have that funky tint. So I am getting better. We have quite a few of our lights switched over now.

 

But I was much quicker to carry my bags, cut gas consumption, etc then I was to embrace the funky corkscrew lightbulbs.:001_huh:

[Colleen]

It's still not part of my thinking.

 

I'm not tracking with you here. On the one hand, you claim conservation isn't part of your thinking. On the other, you offer all this:

 

unless there's a drought I don't think about my water usage. I only use one side of a sheet of paper...Most of what I buy comes in packaging...I leave all the lights on in my house all the time...I drive a big car with bad gas mileage because I like space.

 

 

So you are thinking about on some level. You're aware, for example, of the fact that you're only using one side of the paper and that it would be more economical/environmentally advantageous to print on both sides. So it isn't a matter of not thinking about it. It's a matter of not making an effort to change your habits.

 

(O)ther than what I do, I wouldn't even know what to do, or what would be considered conservation other than the things I mentioned above

 

Start with all the things you mentioned and increase your efforts toward conservation.

[FlockOfSillies]

Some of us have Bigger Fish to Fry.

 

Some of us are sick and tired of being told, directly or indirectly, that we are Bad People for being insufficiently obsessed with all things environmental. Some of us don't believe that our buying choices are the business of the green police, or anyone else, for that matter.

 

Some of us suspect that global warming is nonsense. Or even if it isn't nonsense, that the proposed cures are worse than the disease.

 

Some of us suspect the current environmental focus is largely a product of marketing research -- consumerist hype, IOW. A fad. Like pet rocks and leg warmers and Baby on Board signs.

 

I could just as easily start my own thread and ask, "Why is conservation mandatory for some people?"

[Peela]

I think people will get conservative about resources when the price in the US finally becomes high enough to hurt. In Europe, we now spend about $1.40 for each twenty gallon trash bag. Water went from $125 per quarter to 150Euros per month. The price of electricity and natural gas doubled and the papers say that they will double again in the New Year.

 

When cheap blue jeans and sneakers run you the equivalent of $200 US dollars, no one gets any new clothing unless you can prove you'll actually be naked. Importing from the US, not possible, everything gets stopped at the border and gets a 40% import tax put on it.

 

The upside to this. Our savings rate also has doubled. We just don't spend anything without a complete family discussion. This weekend's "big" purchase an alarm clock, just one, so no one sleeps in for the start of school. We expect to spend around $60 for something we would have purchase for under $20 at Target in the US.

 

Ann, thankyou for sharing this. I do feel people in Australia and the U.S. generally don't realise how bad it is getting in other parts of the world, even though we are feeling the pinch. It's going to get a lot worse but until it does, we will carry on as if we will always be able to live like we do now.

[Peela]

Some of us have Bigger Fish to Fry.

 

Some of us are sick and tired of being told, directly or indirectly, that we are Bad People for being insufficiently obsessed with all things environmental. Some of us don't believe that our buying choices are the business of the green police, or anyone else, for that matter.

 

Some of us suspect that global warming is nonsense. Or even if it isn't nonsense, that the proposed cures are worse than the disease.

 

Some of us suspect the current environmental focus is largely a product of marketing research -- consumerist hype, IOW. A fad. Like pet rocks and leg warmers and Baby on Board signs.

 

I could just as easily start my own thread and ask, "Why is conservation mandatory for some people?"

 

What I dont understand is why conservation is seen as something that should only be done if the world is in peril.

Isn't it just a better way to live anyway, to take care, to be respectful stewards of our planet rather than mindlessly consume, destroy natural resources and shrug it all off as not my problem? isnt it jsut a nicer way to live? Isn't Classical education all about Truth, Beauty and all that, and isnt this all somehow connected? It is to me.

 

On the other hand, i agree that there is a lot of marketing research, consumerism hype and a fad like mentality about conservation nowadays. However my concern with it is not that I have a problem with recycling, but that to some extent it is a distraction from people seeing how really, really bad it is out there. If we are looking over here and recycling and being good citizens, we won't notice what they are doing over there taking away our rights, creating wars, and all the horrible things that are going on behind the scenes in governments and corporate connections.

I am all for recycling but lets not keep focusing on the smaller stuff to the exclusion of noticing the bigger stuff, the bigger picture.

 

Conservation is a no brainer to me, not something I feel guilted into doing. I do it because i care, because its obviously, to me, the right thing to do, and I don care if the government tells me to or tels me not to- it wont make any difference to me. I think for myself and act from my own integrity, not out of a reaction to authority.

[funschooler5]

That was the hardest change for me to make, believe it or not. My so-not-an-environmentalist husband kept putting those bulbs in our fixtures and I would go around and swap them out for regular bulbs. I hated the funky tint from them so much.

 

I have been seeing more variety of the energy efficient bulbs in our stores lately and some of them don't have that funky tint. So I am getting better. We have quite a few of our lights switched over now.

 

But I was much quicker to carry my bags, cut gas consumption, etc then I was to embrace the funky corkscrew lightbulbs.:001_huh:

 

 

We finally switched all of our bulbs over, and then we found out you can't just throw them away when they burn out, because they contain mercury. We have to take them to a Hazardous Waste Collection facility in the next town.

 

So does the hazardous material they contain outweigh the energy they save?:confused1:

[Carrie12345]

We finally switched all of our bulbs over, and then we found out you can't just throw them away when they burn out, because they contain mercury. We have to take them to a Hazardous Waste Collection facility in the next town.

 

So does the hazardous material they contain outweigh the energy they save?:confused1:

 

That's been something I have been trying to find a definitive answer on. Mercury freaks me out. I don't think there *can* be a definitive answer on it, considering how touchy the CDC is about "acceptable levels" and their insistence that tuna is bad but thermisol was/is harmless.

 

For us, we've decided that (adults) handling new light bulbs with care is acceptable. But we also eat tuna and barely vax, so take that for what it's worth!

[Holly IN]

Some of us have Bigger Fish to Fry.

 

Some of us are sick and tired of being told, directly or indirectly, that we are Bad People for being insufficiently obsessed with all things environmental. Some of us don't believe that our buying choices are the business of the green police, or anyone else, for that matter.

 

Some of us suspect that global warming is nonsense. Or even if it isn't nonsense, that the proposed cures are worse than the disease.

 

Some of us suspect the current environmental focus is largely a product of marketing research -- consumerist hype, IOW. A fad. Like pet rocks and leg warmers and Baby on Board signs.

 

I could just as easily start my own thread and ask, "Why is conservation mandatory for some people?"

 

 

:iagree: I am so glad it is optional! We do not recycle in my family. It cost us money to recycle. The trash company do sort out our trash so we do not do it. Now since the church I work for started recycling...I bring our plastic cups and water bottles in there every week. Only because I am going to work anyway so might as well bring the plastics with me. No paying for my stuff to be recycled. Think about it...you pay to recycle for the trash company then the trash company takes it back and dumps it then sells it for profit for the work you did. :DI remember long ago where we were able to recycle glass bottles and get 5cents back. Whew! That was great. Now we do not get that but pay to recycle. I am so glad it is optional. I know it probably won't be optional in the future. It is my right to choose whether I want to recycle, use flourescent bulb or regular bulb, and so on. What I do in my home is my business not the gov't. or green police ;)

 

I am glad I have the right to choose whether to conserve or not. We will not be switching to Flourescent. Once that becomes in effect we will use Halogen and other types of bulbs. We do not want mercury bulbs in our house. We do not consider it safe for us. We were very surprised about the ban on regular bulbs starting 2009. Just another way of reducing our right in what we do in our homes. (We do not eat Tuna and don't vax. We very seldom eat Salmon.)

 

Holly

[dawn of ns]

We finally switched all of our bulbs over, and then we found out you can't just throw them away when they burn out, because they contain mercury. We have to take them to a Hazardous Waste Collection facility in the next town.

 

So does the hazardous material they contain outweigh the energy they save?:confused1:

 

There will be other options soon! LED lights are starting to come out for home use. They're still expensive ($20 to $30 for a regular bulb I think?) but they last forever, don't contain mercury and will probably come down in price in the next few years.

[chaik76]

 

I'm not tracking with you here. On the one hand, you claim conservation isn't part of your thinking. On the other, you offer all this:

 

 

 

So you are thinking about on some level. You're aware, for example, of the fact that you're only using one side of the paper and that it would be more economical/environmentally advantageous to print on both sides. So it isn't a matter of not thinking about it. It's a matter of not making an effort to change your habits.

 

Start with all the things you mentioned and increase your efforts toward conservation.

That does sound fairly contradictory, doesn't it! Sorry! I just meant it's not something I think about on a daily basis. The examples I offered were ones I thought of on the spur of the moment based on the posts of others. This thread has made me more aware. Thanks for your post!

[PiCO]

I could post a long argument about how conservation and concern for the environment is a Victorian-like, feel good load of bullsh*it, but someone has already made the point in a much more amusing way than I every could.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onDbTL9DFpA

 

Ohh, I want to add: CONTENT WARNING - CURSING INVOLVED!!!!!

 

I used to like Penn & Teller before I saw this series. I have not watched the recycling episode, but I'm not going to bother because I found other episodes to be poorly researched. They tend to resort to name-calling rather than doing research.

[Kelli in TN]

There will be other options soon! LED lights are starting to come out for home use. They're still expensive ($20 to $30 for a regular bulb I think?) but they last forever, don't contain mercury and will probably come down in price in the next few years.

 

I've read this as well. I am very glad because I think the LED has a nicer glow then the flourescents. I think they are easier on the eyes and certainly easier to read by. I still use regular lightbulbs in my reading lamps for now.

[3lilreds in NC]

When I originally read the title of this post, I thought it asked why CONVERSATION is optional for some people. I thought, well, they're men. What more needs to be said?:lol:

 

Where my parents live, they have no recycling. People have tried to bring recycling there, but it doesn't last. I believe it's that the people have to take their own stuff to the recycling center, and can't be bothered.

 

My dad is very aware of environmental issues. He used to work on toxic waste cleanup and other things - did a lot of research on bioremediation. He knows what he's talking about.

 

I need to tell you that because he's told me he doesn't believe in recycling. He said that landfills are a poor way of dealing with trash, and until we get them all filled up, there will be no incentive to come up with something better.

 

He has also told me that he plans to drive the biggest, most gas-guzzling vehicle he can find so that we get rid of all the oil faster so that we will have to turn to alternative energy sources.

 

Mind you, when they've had recycling, my parents recycled. And now that gas prices are sky-high and their budget is feeling the pinch, he's more interested in more economical vehicles.

 

I'm just pointing out that he would like to do exactly the opposite of what we all think we're supposed to do, to force the point that we need to do MORE. Heading off the inevitable might not be the best approach.

 

Note: I recycle. Fastidiously. Just sharing his viewpoint, which I find interesting.

[Jugglin'5]

And then there is the extreme mercury mess they make when they break. I found out 6 months after I had broken one that there is a special process you go through to clean it, which includes evacuating for 24 hrs, so that you don't get mercury poisoning. Great. I learn this after I change all mine out. I'm rarely a conspiracist, but I am sorely tempted to think that the mercury situation was not advertised at first for a reason.

 

We finally switched all of our bulbs over, and then we found out you can't just throw them away when they burn out, because they contain mercury. We have to take them to a Hazardous Waste Collection facility in the next town.

 

So does the hazardous material they contain outweigh the energy they save?:confused1:

[PiCO]

Um, your IQ only has to be 130 to qualify for Mensa. That does not impress me, make me want to consider your dh's POV above anyone else's (even someone with an IQ of 80), and is certainly nothing to brag about. I have a profoundly gifted daughter and would never teach her to throw her IQ or membership in certain organizations around to help prove a point. Sorry, if that sounds harsh, but I think that just paints the wrong picture of what giftedness IS and I am very sensitive to things like that.

 

 

 

 

I am actually (dare I say it?) a card-carrying member of MENSA. I agree with you- nothing to brag about, it's really just a social group that can be quite fun. Like this board.

 

BTW, to get into MENSA you have to score in the top 2% on any of a number of standardized tests. My IQ is a bit over 130, and I could not get in on my IQ test- I got in with my SAT scores. So, you don't really qualify for Mensa with an IQ of 130 but there are plenty of people in Mensa with IQs of a measly 130. ;) Evidently different IQ tests have different scores that mark the 98th percentile.

 

I'm just putting this info out here in case someone is interested in joining Mensa. My mother insisted I join when I was in college, because she really enjoyed the group.

[PiCO]

I think for a lot of people too, that the environmentalists (true believers) types just give it all a bad name.

 

 

But this can be said about any belief system- Christianity, Muslim, Atheism, breastfeeding advocates, even homeschoolers. I don't think you should discount whole belief systems just because the radicals are annoying. (Not saying you shouldn't discount some whole belief systems- just have a better reason. ;))