Hoping to meet some Duggars today!!

[zoobie]

Actually this is inaccurate.

 

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-now/2010/06/family_research_council_explai.html

 

While I don't support everything the FRC stands for, I think they should be reported accurately.

It's not that clear-cut. Tony Perkins continues to praise the country's actions on homosexuality: http://www.salon.com/2012/12/07/christian_right_leader_lauds_homophobic_ugandan_dictator/

[ktgrok]

There are many  quotes listed here, from the FRC itself. You can decide if they are hateful. Or just lies. http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/family-research-council

[DawnM]

UGH.  I am on vacation.  I am going to have to research it all after I get home in a few days.  I just don't want to take out vacation time to do it.

 

I don't support the FRC in any way, but I do want to fully research and not rely on just one or two slanted news sources IN EITHER DIRECTION.  

[edelweiss]

Stacey, I'm glad that you were able to meet them!  They seem like a lovely family!

[sassenach]

Being ok with imprisoning people who are homosexual is way beyond have a religious belief. The bill they defended in Uganda also called for the death penalty for "serial homosexuals". There are lots of conservative groups that are against homosexuality, only a few are considered hate groups. The FRC is one of them.

I was curious about this, because it seemed really out there that any group would support that Ugandan bill.  Also, I was really curious as to what it meant to be a designated "hate group."  The authority with which that term was posted on this thread led me to think that it was some sort of governmental designation.

 

What I found was the hate group designation is from the Southern Poverty Law Center (a pro-LBGT group, among other things) .  As of 2010 (There's probably more recent posts from them, but I'm short on time), they designated 13 of the 18 groups they identified as hate groups.  Their defining factor was the citation of anything other than the Bible.  So if a group presents any research that disagrees with SPLC research, they become a hate group. 

 

The Uganda issue seems to be connected with FRC's involvement in crafting the wording for the congressional statement against the Ugandan law.  I haven't found anything that when taken in full context is evidence that FRC supported the law. If anyone has any full context links that support the argument that FRC actually supported the Ugandan bill, I'd be open to reading them.

 

Bottom line is this is a topic which will always be divisive.  There seems to be no way to not support gay marriage, and have that viewed as anything other than hate.  Frankly, you can call it hate all day long, but that doesn't mean it is hate.  And I can say it's not all day long, and I imagine that you will never accept it as anything other than.  Shrug.

 

 

ETA: I visited the links posted while I was replying (which included about an hour of lag time because I had to get a kid ready for school). That link from the podcast was quite clear that they supported the bill.  That's awful, and I agree, hateful.  

[albeto.]

Yes, yes I am. LOL.

 

I know some people fake it but I think by now we would have surely seen evidence if they were fakers.

 

I don't think it's fake, and you're right, fake would be hard to maintain with so many people for so long. Every family will have a different dynamic, of course, and while some members of families who left their family dynamics will speak out (no longer quivering is a good resource for these), clearly individual experiences will be different. There are, however, certain themes that are consistent throughout this kind of ideology. These themes include obedience, outward looking cheerfulness, deference to authority, conditioning through extreme physical and emotional punishments and rewards, etc. These things add up to a kind of Stockholm syndrome mentality of identifying with and sympathizing with one's abuser. So sure, they're not faking it, but is it their personalities that are coming through, or carefully crafted personalities created for a "higher purpose"? 

[ktgrok]

I respect that there are people against gay marraige. These kinds of statements go beyond that. 

 

“Gaining access to children has been a long-term goal of the homosexual movement.â€
— Robert Knight, FRC director of cultural studies, and Frank York, 1999

“[Homosexuality] … embodies a deep-seated hatred against true religion.â€
— Steven Schwalm, FRC senior writer and analyst, in “Desecrating Corpus Christi,†1999

"One of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the 'prophets' of a new sexual order." 
—1999 FRC publication, "Homosexual Behavior and Pedophilia," Robert Knight and Frank York

 

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/family-research-council

[mamajudy]

I think it's kind of sad that people choose to turn someone's "I'm excited" thread into something negative. Move on, guys, for the sake of human kindness. Yes, you have the right to express your opinions on a public forum, but I'm pretty disappointed right now that people chose to make this particular thread negative.

:iagree: It has gotten very old. Some people just have to turn every conversation into a debate over some controversy. It is sad.

[Annie G]

I think it's kind of sad that people choose to turn someone's "I'm excited" thread into something negative. Move on, guys, for the sake of human kindness. Yes, you have the right to express your opinions on a public forum, but I'm pretty disappointed right now that people chose to make this particular thread negative.

 

 

Yes, folks who want to debate this please go start another thread. This sandbox is just for light conversation to be happy for someone who wanted to meet a famous family. I get that people have strong feelings about it, and I'm not trying to squelch those opinions...we just ask that you guys move on to a new thread to continue the discussion. 

 

I'm pretty busy today missing my mom and wishing I could go visit my new granddaughter who was born this week (850 miles away) and also watching my very brave friend die of cancer. She's no going to see her kids graduate from high school or maybe even see Christmas.   I just wanted to enjoy Stacey's enthusiasm, not debate people's views on homosexuality. 

[Corraleno]

What I found was the hate group designation is from the Southern Poverty Law Center (a pro-LBGT group, among other things) .  As of 2010 (There's probably more recent posts from them, but I'm short on time), they designated 13 of the 18 groups they identified as hate groups.  Their defining factor was the citation of anything other than the Bible.  So if a group presents any research that disagrees with SPLC research, they become a hate group. 

 

The Southern Poverty Law Center is a civil rights organization which was originally founded by civil rights lawyers to represent individuals and groups who were targeted by the KKK. Over time they expanded their work to cover many other groups that are victims of discrimination, including other minorities and LBGT people. Calling them a "pro-LBGT group" is like calling them a "pro-African American group." They are pro-human.

 

Any organization that would be considered "anti-African American," or "anti-Mexican-American," or any other racial/ethnic group, would rightly be termed a hate group. The standard should be no different for anti-LBGT groups. The fact that there are people in this country who are still not in the "pro" camp with regard to civil rights for every American, regardless of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation, is very sad.

[Riverland]

I'm neither a Duggar lover nor a Duggar hater.  But, I am happy for Stacey.  

 

All you who preach kindness and respect for all, are showing very little of it on this thread to the OP.

 

Start your own thread.

[albeto.]

Yes, folks who want to debate this please go start another thread. This sandbox is just for light conversation to be happy for someone who wanted to meet a famous family. I get that people have strong feelings about it, and I'm not trying to squelch those opinions...we just ask that you guys move on to a new thread to continue the discussion. 

 

I'm pretty busy today missing my mom and wishing I could go visit my new granddaughter who was born this week (850 miles away) and also watching my very brave friend die of cancer. She's no going to see her kids graduate from high school or maybe even see Christmas.   I just wanted to enjoy Stacey's enthusiasm, not debate people's views on homosexuality. 

 

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. With respect, I won't start another thread because the issues in this thread are pertinent and best addressed in context. Ultimately, I suspect supporting the Duggar family will become as distasteful to mainstream America as supporting the Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church is, and this is how these social changes are made - when they come up, where they count. I don't mean to trivialize your issues, and my heart goes out to you, truly it does. But it also goes out to people who are silenced, beaten, imprisoned, killed, and bullied to death for committing a victimless "crime." If we as a society care for our members, if we genuinely value freedom and well-being, protecting the privilege to oppress others must go, and the best way to make it go is to address it when it comes up, not only among those who agree.

[StaceyinLA]

I'm neither a Duggar lover nor a Duggar hater.  But, I am happy for Stacey.  

 

All you who preach kindness and respect for all, are showing very little of it on this thread to the OP.

 

Start your own thread.

 

 

Thank you! I always find it ironic how people who are always preaching tolerance have so little of it for people with differing opinions. I have seen more hate spewed towards the Duggars than most any other family in America. People criticize everything about them (lifestyle choices, political views, religious views, family size, etc.) Those same people are absolutely APPALLED that the Duggars have a stance against their views. It boggles the mind.

[Catwoman]

Well, it happened.

 

Like it always does.

 

Stacey wanted to tell us about something that was fun and exciting for her.

 

But because the word DUGGAR was involved, people had to come in and ruin it for her.

 

I think that is incredibly rude, and anyone who says that the anti-Duggar information is necessary to this thread is sadly mistaken. Does anyone here even remotely believe that all of us haven't read all of the gory details about the Duggars?

 

Look, I don't agree with a lot of what the Duggars stand for, but I can still be happy for Stacey that she got to meet people she likes and admires. I don't have to admire the Duggars to respect and be happy for Stacey.

 

This thread was not the place for the snotty comments.

[Mergath]

Well, it happened.

 

Like it always does.

 

Stacey wanted to tell us about something that was fun and exciting for her.

 

But because the word DUGGAR was involved, people had to come in and ruin it for her.

 

I think that is incredibly rude, and anyone who says that the anti-Duggar information is necessary to this thread is sadly mistaken. Does anyone here even remotely believe that all of us haven't read all of the gory details about the Duggars?

 

Look, I don't agree with a lot of what the Duggars stand for, but I can still be happy for Stacey that she got to meet people she likes and admires. I don't have to admire the Duggars to respect and be happy for Stacey.

 

This thread was not the place for the snotty comments.

 

Well, in all fairness, it wasn't just the mention of the Duggars that upset people, but the FRC.  When I see a thread about the Duggars I roll my eyes and ignore it, but the FRC ranks right up there with the KKK for me.  They're abhorrent.  Last time the group came up I went to their website out of curiosity, and was appalled and sickened by the things they promote.

[Catwoman]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. With respect, I won't start another thread because the issues in this thread are pertinent and best addressed in context. Ultimately, I suspect supporting the Duggar family will become as distasteful to mainstream America as supporting the Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church is, and this is how these social changes are made - when they come up, where they count. I don't mean to trivialize your issues, and my heart goes out to you, truly it does. But it also goes out to people who are silenced, beaten, imprisoned, killed, and bullied to death for committing a victimless "crime." If we as a society care for our members, if we genuinely value freedom and well-being, protecting the privilege to oppress others must go, and the best way to make it go is to address it when it comes up, not only among those who agree.

There is no "context." This thread was about a woman who wanted to share a happy experience with us. Period. The end.

 

I think it's both sad and incredibly rude that people put their own personal agendas ahead of simply letting it go. If this thread reminded people about the need to once again inform the world about the Evil Duggars, they should have started a spin-off thread.

[Catwoman]

Yes, folks who want to debate this please go start another thread. This sandbox is just for light conversation to be happy for someone who wanted to meet a famous family. I get that people have strong feelings about it, and I'm not trying to squelch those opinions...we just ask that you guys move on to a new thread to continue the discussion.

 

I'm pretty busy today missing my mom and wishing I could go visit my new granddaughter who was born this week (850 miles away) and also watching my very brave friend die of cancer. She's no going to see her kids graduate from high school or maybe even see Christmas. I just wanted to enjoy Stacey's enthusiasm, not debate people's views on homosexuality.

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Annie, I am so sorry that you are missing your mom and that your friend is dying. :crying: it's especially hard when awful things happen right around the holidays. Somehow it seems to make it feel even worse. :(

 

Congratulations on your new granddaughter -- I hope you will be able to meet her soon! I wish she lived near you so you could visit her all the time and make a complete nuisance of yourself. It would definitely cheer you up to be able to hold that precious baby.

[unsinkable]

Yes, folks who want to debate this please go start another thread. This sandbox is just for light conversation to be happy for someone who wanted to meet a famous family. I get that people have strong feelings about it, and I'm not trying to squelch those opinions...we just ask that you guys move on to a new thread to continue the discussion.

 

I'm pretty busy today missing my mom and wishing I could go visit my new granddaughter who was born this week (850 miles away) and also watching my very brave friend die of cancer. She's no going to see her kids graduate from high school or maybe even see Christmas. I just wanted to enjoy Stacey's enthusiasm, not debate people's views on homosexuality.

(((Annie)))

 

This is a lot deal with, especially all at once. I'm so sorry about your mom and your dear friend. What a horrible thing.

 

I hope ypu get to see your granddaughter soon.

 

:grouphug:

[Corraleno]

Thank you! I always find it ironic how people who are always preaching tolerance have so little of it for people with differing opinions. I have seen more hate spewed towards the Duggars than most any other family in America. People criticize everything about them (lifestyle choices, political views, religious views, family size, etc.) Those same people are absolutely APPALLED that the Duggars have a stance against their views. It boggles the mind.

 

And I find it even more ironic that speaking out against hate groups is seen as "intolerance of other people's opinions." Some opinions do not deserve "tolerance."

 

Thankfully, the once widely held "opinion" that African-Americans did not deserve the same rights as white Americans was met, not with "tolerance," but with action. The same is true for LBGT Americans. I have every confidence that someday people will look back on this era and wonder how people could have ever justified such discrimination.

 

ETA: I haven't said anything against the Duggers — if meeting them makes you happy, then good for you. I originally responded to this thread because of the designation of the SPLC as a "pro-LBGT group," and I responded to this post because I am tired of smug accusations that people who speak out for equal rights for all Americans are being "intolerant." 

[AimeeM]

This is getting ridiculous. The amount of devolving in HAPPY threads lately. Usually the same folks devolving, as well.

 

OP - I'm happy for you. I think it's fabulous that you got to do something that you were excited about possibly doing! It's always nice when our hopes pan out :) Whether I agree with the Duggars or not, they seem like a lovely couple who love their children very much... and I must say, I envy her patience, lol! 

[albeto.]

There is no "context." This thread was about a woman who wanted to share a happy experience with us. Period. The end.

 

I think it's both sad and incredibly rude that people put their own personal agendas ahead of simply letting it go. If this thread reminded people about the need to once again inform the world about the Evil Duggars, they should have started a spin-off thread.

 

 

I disagree. If an OP wanted to start a thread about meeting Shirley Phelps, would it come as a surprise to read comments about the hateful, barbaric things her family supports? Not all things are equally valued, and increasingly, homophobia is one of the ideologies that is seeing a change in value in society. How do you think these kinds of things come about if not by talking about it? How do you think public opinion changes if not by exposing new ideas where old ideas are promoted? Do you think this is unique to the Duggars? To FRC? To homophobia? If you value living in a society that doesn't discriminate based on race, gender, or religion, how do you think these positive changes to the status quo were made? Politely, among people who agree with each other? 

 

I find it interesting to suggest the oppressors are the victims in this scenario, and that those who would speak up for victims should censor themselves in such a way as to not upset those who support oppressive policies. I see a scale of injustice in my mind, and on one side is the OP, whose happy news is being overshadowed, and on the other side an sizable population of humanity that is targeted for violence, aggression, imprisonment, and death by the likes of the OP's happy news. The OP's "plight" just doesn't compete in my mind. I hope that makes sense. It's not personal against the OP, it's not a matter of wanting to shut her or the Duggars down, it's a matter of not being silent when people are getting hurt. It makes a difference when people speak up, even when it's uncomfortable. When people speak up on the side of justice, I think that's worth the discomfort, and as I've been on the other end myself, I do recognize how uncomfortable it is.

 

If Stacey values things like generosity and compassion and well-being, she might want to consider the information provided here, and how her actions arguably work against her core values. If she finds they do, she'll be armed with information to better support those values she holds in high regard. If she doesn't, others will. Guaranteed. Those others add up. With every uncomfortable conversation had, people learn, and knowledge is a powerful tool to have when you want to support core values. 

 

 

[Catwoman]

I disagree. If an OP wanted to start a thread about meeting Shirley Phelps, would it come as a surprise to read comments about the hateful, barbaric things her family supports? Not all things are equally valued, and increasingly, homophobia is one of the ideologies that is seeing a change in value in society. How do you think these kinds of things come about if not by talking about it? How do you think public opinion changes if not by exposing new ideas where old ideas are promoted? Do you think this is unique to the Duggars? To FRC? To homophobia? If you value living in a society that doesn't discriminate based on race, gender, or religion, how do you think these positive changes to the status quo were made? Politely, among people who agree with each other?

 

I find it interesting to suggest the oppressors are the victims in this scenario, and that those who would speak up for victims should censor themselves in such a way as to not upset those who support oppressive policies. I see a scale of injustice in my mind, and on one side is the OP, whose happy news is being overshadowed, and on the other side an sizable population of humanity that is targeted for violence, aggression, imprisonment, and death by the likes of the OP's happy news. The OP's "plight" just doesn't compete in my mind. I hope that makes sense. It's not personal against the OP, it's not a matter of wanting to shut her or the Duggars down, it's a matter of not being silent when people are getting hurt. It makes a difference when people speak up, even when it's uncomfortable. When people speak up on the side of justice, I think that's worth the discomfort, and as I've been on the other end myself, I do recognize how uncomfortable it is.

 

If Stacey values things like generosity and compassion and well-being, she might want to consider the information provided here, and how her actions arguably work against her core values. If she finds they do, she'll be armed with information to better support those values she holds in high regard. If she doesn't, others will. Guaranteed. Those others add up. With every uncomfortable conversation had, people learn, and knowledge is a powerful tool to have when you want to support core values.

Give it a rest, albeto. :rolleyes:

 

LucyStoner has already started a very good spin-off thread. I would respectfully request that you go there and "educate" people.

 

Everyone already knows your position on the Duggars, but this isn't the thread in which to reiterate it. I'm not suggesting that you don't have some very valid points, but since LucyStoner was kind enough to start the new thread, perhaps you should be kind enough to move there, as well.

 

Why not let Stacey be happy? Every single Duggar thread should not have to turn into an "uncomfortable conversation."

[Miss Peregrine]

Common courtesy goes a long way in education.

[Annie G]

Thanks for the well wishes, guys, but I was really just trying to convey that there are a lot more important things to do than argue over  stuff like this.  We can fight over who believes what and who is most wrong, but if we'd just all stop doing that and start being more patient, kind, and compassionate to others, we'd all be a lot happier.  I can't change people's minds about controversial topics, but I can let a mom with a crying toddler go ahead of me at the store. Or be patient when a car stops in front of a store, blocking traffic, in order to let an elderly person out so she doesn't have to walk far through the cold parking lot. 

Let's just be happy for people who want to be happy, and hug people who need hugs. 

 

And hopefully the pic of my newest granddaughter shows up here.  My daughter is a trooper. She went from dilated to 6 cm to giving birth in under 19 minutes.  And the baby girl weighed a whopping 9 pounds 10 ounces. 

[Catwoman]

Annie, I can't see the picture on my iPad. :(

[Annie G]

Annie, I can't see the picture on my iPad. :(

 

 

Bummer. She's pretty cute...not that I'm biased or anything. 

[maize]

Thanks for the well wishes, guys, but I was really just trying to convey that there are a lot more important things to do than argue over  stuff like this.  We can fight over who believes what and who is most wrong, but if we'd just all stop doing that and start being more patient, kind, and compassionate to others, we'd all be a lot happier.  I can't change people's minds about controversial topics, but I can let a mom with a crying toddler go ahead of me at the store. Or be patient when a car stops in front of a store, blocking traffic, in order to let an elderly person out so she doesn't have to walk far through the cold parking lot. 

Let's just be happy for people who want to be happy, and hug people who need hugs. 

 

And hopefully the pic of my newest granddaughter shows up here.  My daughter is a trooper. She went from dilated to 6 cm to giving birth in under 19 minutes.  And the baby girl weighed a whopping 9 pounds 10 ounces. 

 

Your granddaughter is adorable!

 

Hmm, 6 cm to birth in under 19 minutes would be rough, but I admit to being just a little bit jealous! That trip takes me hours every time...

[Catwoman]

Bummer. She's pretty cute...not that I'm biased or anything.

Biased? YOU?? About a new granddaughter??? NEVER!!! :D

 

Hopefully the picture will show up on my regular computer.

[albeto.]

Give it a rest, albeto. :rolleyes:

 

LucyStoner has already started a very good spin-off thread. I would respectfully request that you go there and "educate" people.

 

Everyone already knows your position on the Duggars, but this isn't the thread in which to reiterate it. I'm not suggesting that you don't have some very valid points, but since LucyStoner was kind enough to start the new thread, perhaps you should be kind enough to move there, as well.

Thanks for the heads-up. I look forward to your answers to my questions there.

 

Why not let Stacey be happy? Every single Duggar thread should not have to turn into an "uncomfortable conversation."

 

Because each comment was made in reply to a previous comment, and I know of no real way to determine when to move away. Should Sadie's question have been asked in another thread? Answered in another thread? Should Muttichen's question have been posted in another thread? The replies only? I'm not asking for you to answer, but asking to let you see what my reasoning was for responding to genuine questions and comments with a sincere intent. These conversations follow a natural progression, and my comments were part of that. I say this to answer your question, not to inspire a reply.

[unsinkable]

Thanks for the well wishes, guys, but I was really just trying to convey that there are a lot more important things to do than argue over stuff like this. We can fight over who believes what and who is most wrong, but if we'd just all stop doing that and start being more patient, kind, and compassionate to others, we'd all be a lot happier. I can't change people's minds about controversial topics, but I can let a mom with a crying toddler go ahead of me at the store. Or be patient when a car stops in front of a store, blocking traffic, in order to let an elderly person out so she doesn't have to walk far through the cold parking lot.

Let's just be happy for people who want to be happy, and hug people who need hugs.

 

And hopefully the pic of my newest granddaughter shows up here. My daughter is a trooper. She went from dilated to 6 cm to giving birth in under 19 minutes. And the baby girl weighed a whopping 9 pounds 10 ounces.

She's gorgeous!

 

(And not that I know personally, but my dear dear friend has had a few precipitous births and they are not easy, despite being fast.)

[Luanne]

Yes, some people sure can be hateful... and I'm not talking about the Duggars.  Some people on here are way more judgmental and hateful than the Duggars will ever be.  Just because they believe the Bible and don't support homosexuality does not make them hateful.  Some of you act like everyone has to believe exactly like you do. 

 

The definition of a troll is someone who goes to an article (or post) and posts just to cause trouble.  I think we have quite a few trolls on here ... and some of them are regular posters.

[maize]

She's gorgeous!

 

(And not that I know personally, but my dear dear friend has had a few precipitous births and they are not easy, despite being fast.)

LOL, I think the words "easy" and "birth" just don't go together.

 

Some births are harder than others, but easy?!? Maybe one lucky woman out of billions...

[Catwoman]

I often see these sorts of posts here- as if a conversation can be controlled by the OP or her defenders. That certainly has never been my experience on BBs over the years.

 

This is the internet. Conversations unfold in different ways. Its not mean or hateful to disagree or discuss or even argue on a thread.

It is quite unpleasant when someone starts a thread to discuss something that was fun and exciting for her, only to have it derailed and turned into yet another anti-Duggar thread.

 

That's why spin-off threads are such a good idea. The original thread can remain in the spirit in which it was intended, while the important points others wish to discuss can still be voiced.

[Luanne]

If someone had posted about being excited to meet some KKK members or whatever, it would turn nasty. Or Westboro Baptist leaders. The Duggars are not on the same level, but at the same time, promote beliefs that many find truly hateful and outright damaging. That is why the negativity. 

 

That is the most farfetched comparison I have ever seen.

[Corraleno]

It is quite unpleasant when someone starts a thread to discuss something that was fun and exciting for her, only to have it derailed and turned into yet another anti-Duggar thread.

 

That's why spin-off threads are such a good idea. The original thread can remain in the spirit in which it was intended, while the important points others wish to discuss can still be voiced.

 

With all due respect, this really didn't turn into an anti-Duggar thread, it turned into a discussion of the FRC, which was mentioned in the OP.  If someone posted that they bumped into some Duggars at Target, or whatever, I doubt there would have been any negative comments. But the OP posted that she was seeing them in the context of an anti-LBGT rally/bus tour. Sadie asked what the FRC was, and discussion ensued. It's not as if a bunch of mean people came into the thread just to piss on someone's parade.

[Catwoman]

tough luck.

 

That is how the internet works.  Unless you post at Storknet.  Does storknet still exist?  

 

Well, aren't you incredibly rude and unpleasant.  :glare:

[Catwoman]

With all due respect, this really didn't turn into an anti-Duggar thread, it turned into a discussion of the FRC, which was mentioned in the OP.  If someone posted that they bumped into some Duggars at Target, or whatever, I doubt there would have been any negative comments. But the OP posted that she was seeing them in the context of an anti-LBGT rally/bus tour. Sadie asked what the FRC was, and discussion ensued. It's not as if a bunch of mean people came into the thread just to piss on someone's parade.

 

I think we will have to agree to disagree about the intentions of at least a few people -- and I'm not talking about Sadie, as I do believe she was asking a legitimate question.

[Luanne]

Caring about social justice and equality is hardly the same thing as being a troll. The aim is not to cause trouble. Also, while the OP did post about being excited to meet a celebrity, she also mentioned the offending organization in the very same post. Is it really that surprising that people started talking about that organization?

 

Posting on this thread just to be hateful is being a troll. 

 

[Luanne]

With all due respect, this really didn't turn into an anti-Duggar thread, it turned into a discussion of the FRC, which was mentioned in the OP.  If someone posted that they bumped into some Duggars at Target, or whatever, I doubt there would have been any negative comments. But the OP posted that she was seeing them in the context of an anti-LBGT rally/bus tour. Sadie asked what the FRC was, and discussion ensued. It's not as if a bunch of mean people came into the thread just to piss on someone's parade.

 

Actually it did when people made comments like the Duggars are an awful family.  How is that NOT anti-Duggar?

 

[Catwoman]

Am I?

 

I just think its incredibly bizarre to believe you can control the whole conversation and shut down any sort of opposition.

 

I have seen some really nasty things on this board.  This is the least of them.  Your name calling in response to my lack of sympathy for your point of view seems equally ill mannered.

 

I think you just like to argue.

 

I don't have time for your nonsense, so please move along.

[Laurie]

 . I have seen more hate spewed towards the Duggars than most any other family in America. People criticize everything about them (lifestyle choices, political views, religious views, family size, etc.)

 

 

But when some nobody writes something about the Obama daughters' attire at a WH event then *it* really hits the fan.

 

[Luanne]

Just to be hateful? Has that happened? Where?

 

"The Duggars are an awful family".... That isn't hateful?

[Luanne]

Accusing people of being hateful to get them to shut up is emotional manipulation.

 

I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.  I am not trying to manipulate anyone.  I do believe you are though.

 

[albeto.]

Oh, I missed that. That sounds hateful, yes. Criticizing the FRC on a thread where it's mentioned in the OP isn't the same as coming here just to be hateful though. The stuff the FRC says is pretty frightening.

 

 

You missed it because no one said it.

[Luanne]

You missed it because no one said it.

 

Spy Car said it.

 

[Luanne]

Well to be fair Bill said What an awful family.  And expounded on why he felt that way.

 

Still.

 

IMO not hateful.

 

So, if someone said you were an awful person, you wouldn't think they hated you?  Interesting.

 

[albeto.]

Spy Car said it.

 

 

Thanks. I searched for your quotes and missed that. I agree with calandalsmom, the opinion and qualifiers make a difference. This isn't a hateful comment like the FRC's hateful comment because it doesn't misrepresent information (an opinion is not the same as stating a claim of fact), and it doesn't inspire behavior by inciting a feeling of danger (like LGBTQ need to be sequestered, imprisoned, or killed for the safety of society). 

[albeto.]

So, if someone said you were an awful person, you wouldn't think they hated you?  Interesting.

 

You're saying people are hateful judgmental and trollish on this thread. You're not referring to words but intent, as if you know what they're thinking when they write. Is it your intent to declare your hatred for them? Or is the word "awful" more important than "judgmental" and "troll" with regard to determining hateful intent? 

 

Yes, some people sure can be hateful... and I'm not talking about the Duggars.  Some people on here are way more judgmental and hateful than the Duggars will ever be.  Just because they believe the Bible and don't support homosexuality does not make them hateful.  Some of you act like everyone has to believe exactly like you do. 

 

The definition of a troll is someone who goes to an article (or post) and posts just to cause trouble.  I think we have quite a few trolls on here ... and some of them are regular posters.

 

But more importantly, "hate speech" is a particular thing, it's not a matter of feeling animosity towards another person, it's a matter of inciting fear and distrust against a group, and in turn an individual belonging to or thought to belong to that group.

 

The Duggars do routinely engage in "hate speech" by virtue of the generally accepted and used definition of the term. This is demonstrably true (as has been discussed earlier in the thread). This doesn't mean that opining this family is "awful" falls under the category of "hate speech." Not by any conventional use of the term. 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Couple of things:

--I have no obligation to tolerate intolerance. When you want your personal beliefs to dictate the private lives of other consenting adults , you have crossed a line and you can expect backlash. Hint: losing the right to marginalize/control others does not make you a victim. Hope that helps!

 

--The Duggars are not an awful family. The kids seem really sweet. However, the parents are bigots who are using their fame in an effort to restrict the rights of others. In my book that makes them awful. IMO.

I also suspect Jill practices blanket training which makes them even more awful.

[T'smom]

Thanks for the well wishes, guys, but I was really just trying to convey that there are a lot more important things to do than argue over stuff like this. We can fight over who believes what and who is most wrong, but if we'd just all stop doing that and start being more patient, kind, and compassionate to others, we'd all be a lot happier. I can't change people's minds about controversial topics, but I can let a mom with a crying toddler go ahead of me at the store. Or be patient when a car stops in front of a store, blocking traffic, in order to let an elderly person out so she doesn't have to walk far through the cold parking lot.

Let's just be happy for people who want to be happy, and hug people who need hugs.

 

And hopefully the pic of my newest granddaughter shows up here. My daughter is a trooper. She went from dilated to 6 cm to giving birth in under 19 minutes. And the baby girl weighed a whopping 9 pounds 10 ounces.

What a beautiful baby!!!! I really hope you are able to see and hold her soon! Will you get to see her for Christmas?