Delicate question for African Americans (or anyone) about the N word

[Ottakee]

I have caught just a tiny bit of the news surrounding the team owner with the racist comments, etc.

 

I was wondering though how the AA community feels about the N word?  I hear (mostly teens/young adults) African Americans using the word with and about each other.  A foster teen (Caucasian) we had last year uses it all of the time on her facebook page when referring to her friend who is African American........most of the time it is Ni**a instead of Ni**er if that makes any difference.  I have also heard teens/young adults say there are African Americans and then there are Ni**ers.

 

I don't want this to become a huge debate/issue on the board but just trying to understand this.  I will admit that we live in a very Caucasian (mostly Dutch) area.  Dh is Native American and the rest of us are part NA.  We have very few African American families here and often the AA or biracial kids in the area are those who are foster/adopted kids of other white families  There is a rapidly growing Hispanic community and a few Middle Eastern but few African Americans in our area.  The county north and the one east of us have a much higher population (bigger cities).

[SKL]

Personally I can only control myself and what my kids hear.  On one hand, it's just a word.  On the other hand, it clearly hurts people.  Therefore in my house, the word is NEVER to be heard except in explanation of why *we* do not use it.  Regardless of who else does or doesn't use it.  I'm not sure if my kids have ever heard the word, and they are 7.

 

The uses described in the OP do not seriously bother me EXCEPT for the last one, "there are AAs and there are N...s."  I heard this growing up as well.  I know exactly what they mean.  I know Chris Rock had a comedy routine where he said the same thing over and over.  But when a white person says it in this day and age, it's mean spirited.  Everyone knows it doesn't fly.

 

I have been argumentative on this point in the past.  I do think some of the AA community is hypocritical when arguing that it can use the word but nobody else can.  That is just a self-destructive position, but they are going to have to figure that out for themselves.  Meanwhile I am not going to let my kids use that as an excuse to call someone N....  Even though I believe a word only has the power we give it, I have never called anyone a N.... even in privacy.  There's no good reason to use it.

 

That said, I am against removing it from old literature etc.  It is part of our history.  "Slut" also was a common word at one time, but that doesn't mean we should be free to call people that today.

[zoobie]

Native Southerner here. It's never ever okay for a white person to say, and I personally don't know any black people who say it as a matter of course. I've seen it on TV, heard it in songs, etc., but it's not common IRL, or at least not in my circles. The Black Law Student Association in law school didn't toss the word around, kwim? I've heard it quoted in discussions about racism or racist encounters or the debate of its use in songs/raps, but 99.9% of the time, it is not spoken by a non-black person and even then, rarely. It would be changed to "the n-word" in most cases.

 

According to my grandmother (b. 1911 to a share cropping farmer living near white and black sharecroppers in the Deep South), it was commonly used in her youth by both races. She said it was not used by "civilized people" after she left the farm and moved to the big city ;) of Atlanta in the 1930s.

 

If I heard it used casually by an acquaintance or friend, I would be utterly shocked. And it would probably be my last conversation with that person.

[StaceyinLA]

I see it used by teens of all races in the context mentioned on the OP. I believed when used as in "my ni**as," it's referring to buddies, pals, etc., sort of like, "my homies." Idk. I'm a little out of the hip, pop culture loop.

[Murmer]

There is a movement for some African Americans to try to reclaim the word to give it less power...with that said it is not a universal thing within the African American culture...but as a white person using it always brings forth the negative connotations from years and centuries past.

[OneStepAtATime]

Wow.  Interesting.  That word is sometimes used here, but very, very rarely, and NOT in a nice way.  It is not even remotely acceptable in my household.  I guarantee if my extended family were over and one of the teens used it I would ask them to refrain and explain the history of that term.  Maybe it is becoming more acceptable in some circles as just a term for a buddy but no, it would not be acceptable in my house.

[trulycrabby]

I live in the deep south, and have only heard it used once in conversation years ago. I have never heard it used by African Americans except in songs, tv shows, etc. I am not saying that there is not well-entrenched racism here, because there is, but it is kept hidden below a surface of political correctness.

[LucyStoner]

Lesbian women can call themselves dykes if they like. Some do to strip the word of its power and hurtfulness. Certainly though the word is generally considered offensive when used by men and straight women. Same thing for the n-word. It's that simple.

[Laurie4b]

I have caught just a tiny bit of the news surrounding the team owner with the racist comments, etc.

 

I was wondering though how the AA community feels about the N word?  I hear (mostly teens/young adults) African Americans using the word with and about each other.  A foster teen (Caucasian) we had last year uses it all of the time on her facebook page when referring to her friend who is African American........most of the time it is Ni**a instead of Ni**er if that makes any difference.  I have also heard teens/young adults say there are African Americans and then there are Ni**ers.

 

I don't want this to become a huge debate/issue on the board but just trying to understand this.  I will admit that we live in a very Caucasian (mostly Dutch) area.  Dh is Native American and the rest of us are part NA.  We have very few African American families here and often the AA or biracial kids in the area are those who are foster/adopted kids of other white families  There is a rapidly growing Hispanic community and a few Middle Eastern but few African Americans in our area.  The county north and the one east of us have a much higher population (bigger cities).

 

It's called the n-word because you're not supposed to use it-- like the f-word. Use of the word provokes deep hurt, anger, and memories of fear and intimidation.

 

African Amercans use it within their own community although there is debate about doing that. One side says that it serves  as a desensitizer, and gives AA's the power over the word, not vice versa. The other side of the debate is that the word needs to become extinct. There is no debate within the African American community about those outside the community using it. Just don't do it.

 

Occasionally, there will be an African-American who gives a special friend leave to use it--actually encourages it. Ironically, it's supposed to be a bonding thing. That happened to a friend of mine in college. I always hated it when she did it. She was uncomfortable but her friend wanted her to. Personally, I would just say no. There are just so many tangled up issues. This may be the context with your foster dd. If it was a foster daughter living with me,  I would draw the line on that issue.

 

As for "there are African Americans and then there are Ni**ers:" Pure racist nastiness.  I imagine those saying that think of themselves as "not racist" for the "exceptions" they make.It's a way to reserve the right to continue to marinate in racist thought without the bother of a conscience prickling. I think it's disgusting in a way I have no words for.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

We don't use it at all in my home (I'm black) and I feel extremely comfortable in thinking no one in my social circle would say it either.  My son is a young black man and he does not use that word nor does he run with a crowd who would use it.  I know he does listen to some music that probably has that sort of language, but he's an adult and as long as I don't have to hear it, I don't worry myself with that.  I personally don't enjoy music where the artist feels the need curse me out in appreciation of me spending money on their music. 

 

Now, my Dad and some of his brothers, friends, etc . . . from the older generation do use it when referring to each other while playing dominoes, cards, etc . . . especially after a few drinks.  But they do that in their own home, not in mine, and not in public.  Fortunately they don't own any major sports teams, LOL.  My Dad knows how I feel, but of course I cannot control him or what he does in his own home, nor would I want to. 

 

I know some young people feel it's cool to use it to refer to each other.  My spouse has a sibling that is 12 years her junior and every now and then one of their friends will slip up in our presence, but we never hesitate to inform that we find the word unacceptable in all instances and will not allow it to be used in our presence.  I find the word highly offensive. 

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I see it used by teens of all races in the context mentioned on the OP. I believed when used as in "my ni**as," it's referring to buddies, pals, etc., sort of like, "my homies." Idk. I'm a little out of the hip, pop culture loop.

 

I've seen it used this way also by classmates of my teens, in a mixed-group setting.  It was a bit shocking at first, but then I came to realize that their generation has a very casual attitude toward race.  Their school is filled with bi-racial students, children of immigrants (Latino and African) and white-bread kids like mine.  They all hang out together and joke about race and stereotypes. Dating between the races is acceptable and no one bats an eye.  

 

I think the Sterling guy represents his generation and my teens represent the current generation.  My generation is kind of caught up in the middle and unsure.

[Slache]

It's totally regional in my experience. I've lived in CA, OR, DC, LA, OH, and traveled to (I think) 38 states. In my experience if you are in an area that is racist the word is bad, but if you live in an area that isn't the word is ok. It's the same thing with racist jokes.

 

When my husband moved from Ohio, the most racist place I've ever lived, to Oregon he was shocked at the number of racist joked and derogatory vocabulary he heard, just to discover that African Americans treated him as an equal. He wasn't used to that experience.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

It's totally regional in my experience. I've lived in CA, OR, DC, LA, OH, and traveled to (I think) 38 states. In my experience if you are in an area that is racist the word is bad, but if you live in an area that isn't the word is ok. It's the same thing with racist jokes.

 

There is so much wrong in those few sentences I am not sure where to start.   I am just marking my place until I can come back to this a bit later.

[Joker]

I have two biracial nephews who use the words often on FB. Many of their friends use it as well and they are of many different races. They seem to be using it to refer to each other as a buddy or friend. I don't really get it. It's not a word I would ever use or allow my dds to use in front of me.

[candicane]

I don't like hearing it, I don't think there's a need to use it, no matter what your skin tone is. My father, southerner, uses it freely to talk about the President and it makes me flinch every time. I've said multiple times, as has my mother, that it's not an appropriate word but he doesn't listen, sadly.

[freeindeed]

I am in the deep south - south Alabama to be exact. I do not use any form of the "n" word. Neither do any of my friends (and I have friends of different races and ethnicities.) My husband has a few family members who do, which I hate to admit, but I am doing so for the sake honesty. Also, though, since I'm being honest, these family members exhibit ignorance and narrowmindnedness on several levels. Sometimes I wonder how hubby turned out so great.

 

I will add that I also don't appreciate any sort of racist or ethnic jokes, and sometimes people tell me Asian jokes "since you have a daughter adopted from China." Huh?!?

[DawnM]

Hey, I can dis my family but you better not say a WORD about my family!

 

It is the same with racial comments.  They can "dis," "dog," "tease," or whatever their own friends/family but if you are in not in the "inside" group, it is never your place to say anything.   NEVER.

 

However, working with teens, I have to say I still don't like hearing that word, even among AA teens to each other.

[Ottakee]

Thanks for the input.  It is NEVER allowed to be used in our house and isn't used in the social circles we run in.

 

Foster DD was with us for almost 6 months a year ago but now is 3 hours away living mostly on her own.  I think she uses it as a slang for friend, buddy, etc. as she never appeared racist here and has many friends that are black, Hispanic, etc.  Her and her friends though are not the most upstanding citizens, sad to say.

 

I didn't want to use Black/white as some people are offended by that.  My dh is Native American but he doesn't mind being called Indian at all.

[Ms.Ivy]

Wow, I live in one of one of the most ethnically diverse areas in the US, and it is very common to hear AAs call each other the N-word, women call each other the B-word, and Mexicans call each other cholos.  (which used to be very derogatory)  And whites will sometimes call themselves crackers.  But someone who is not AA can't say the N-word, a man can't say the B-word, etc.  The racist jokes I have heard have always been by people making fun of their OWN culture or race.  It's really not that big of a deal unless you start getting up into the college-educated white-collar crowd, who are more politically correct and don't use a lot of slang in general.  

[Reefgazer]

It's funny, none of my black friends use the term "African American"; they all say "black".  My white friends use a mix of those two terms.  I sort of think "African American" is odd because not everyone who is black is from Africa.  I dunno...

I think it's interesting how often the term "African American" is used in this post. Most people I know just say "black." And I live in the deep South. You have to ask individuals what terms they like to use or hear because answers vary. Personally I do not like any form the of the "n-word" regardless of who is using it. But I'm also not too fond of words like "beaner" used by anyone (I'm hispanic and heard it used jokingly among other hispanics).

 

[SKL]

It's funny, none of my black friends use the term "African American"; they all say "black".  My white friends use a mix of those two terms.  I sort of think "African American" is odd because not everyone who is black is from Africa.  I dunno...

 

I agree, those who have told me what word they prefer usually say "black."  Personally I am not a fan of calling a person "black," because 1. they are brown, not black and 2. I just don't feel comfortable referring to someone as a color.  But I don't like AA either because it is not accurate.  In general I use AA (when it matters) because it is generally accepted and I don't have anything better.  Sometimes words just come up short.

[Mrs Mungo]

Disclaimer: I only read the OP.

 

I think there is an idea that if you "claim" a word used to insult you, then it can't be so easily used to hurt you. It is why some groups of women friends call each other slut or bitch. They are claiming and repurposing the word. It doesn't make it okay for other people outside of the group to call them that. And of course, lots of people within the same demographic will disapprove of using derogatory language.

 

Does that help?

[Slache]

I think it's interesting how often the term "African American" is used in this post. Most people I know just say "black." And I live in the deep South. You have to ask individuals what terms they like to use or hear because answers vary. Personally I do not like any form the of the "n-word" regardless of who is using it. But I'm also not too fond of words like "beaner" used by anyone (I'm hispanic and heard it used jokingly among other hispanics).

When I was growing up we used that term to describe immigrants (I'm from the bay area so we had tons from around the world), and I don't like the term because I feel that It's misleading.

 

There is so much wrong in those few sentences I am not sure where to start.   I am just marking my place until I can come back to this a bit later.

There really is no reason for this. I was explaining the different reactions to the word by my black friends in different places that I've lived. Because I've moved so much I've seen a different perspective that I thought was worth sharing.

 

Every conversation we've had has ended in you thinking I'm ignorant and me thinking you are unpleasant, so let's just relax and drop it. Doesn't that sound nice?

[Reefgazer]

I know.  But I'm not white, either...I'm sorta of peachy pinkish color.  Unless it's winter, then I'm the color of a white mushroom, LOL!

I agree, those who have told me what word they prefer usually say "black."  Personally I am not a fan of calling a person "black," because 1. they are brown, not black and 2. I just don't feel comfortable referring to someone as a color.  But I don't like AA either because it is not accurate.  In general I use AA (when it matters) because it is generally accepted and I don't have anything better.  Sometimes words just come up short.

 

[Mrs Mungo]

In my experience, this process can also lead to problems. We had ethnically motivated wars here over the last 20 years (ex-Yugoslavia). There is a word that is the equivalent of the N word for people of my husband's ethnicity. As a foreigner, I was new to the complexities of ethnic hatred locally. The first few times I heard people use this word in casual conversations, I was shocked and asked them to stop doing so — especially people who jokingly referred to my children using that word.

 

The reply was always "no, it's OK, THEY refer to themselves by that name now!" That does not make it OK at all, especially when used by nationalists from other ethnicities. But appropriating these racist words can definitely backfire. And yes, I have heard this word used even by the most open-minded people possible. Language matters. Thanks to some experiences, my kids are physically scared when they hear that word.

I have heard that from a few people too, which is why I was specific in saying, "It doesn't make it okay for other people outside of the group to call them that." I don't disagree at all that it can backfire. I don't tend to use derogatory language, even when it would apply to me.

[BigMamaBird]

The only time I've heard it used is by young urban people, both white and black.  I had to unfriend a young black man on FB because every other status of his used that word.  For him it was a greeting, a term of endearment, an inside joke, etc. but it always made my skin crawl.  He's one of the kindest, sweetest young people I know, but I just couldn't read that every day, even knowing his underlying intent.  It's just an ugly word to me, along the same vein as the F-word.

[Catherine]

LOL...I've never in my life heard anyone use the term cracker.

Well, I have many times, and it is always meant in an ugly way-it's a way caucasians elevate themselves over other caucasians. Like any slur, if a person takes it for themselves, they are trying to take away its power to hurt.

[Farrar]

LOL...I've never in my life heard anyone use the term cracker.

 

I knew it but thought it was a quaint relic...  until I moved into a diverse inner city neighborhood.  I've totally been called cracker in a derogatory manner by black people here many times, though I can't say I'm particularly riled by it most of the time.  I haven't heard it in awhile, though.

 

I am surprised there's anyone who isn't familiar with the n-word's use in the context of groups of black friends.  As I was walking home from the store today, I was behind a guy on a cell phone using it quite freely.  Sometimes I hear it used in a derogatory way and sometimes as a sort of term of affection in the reclaiming sense that people have talked about.  But I hear it often from black men just on the street.

 

I have also heard it in the context of mixed race groups of friends where it's meant in a lighthearted way and seemingly have seen it be "okay" within the group, but I admit that I find that really difficult to understand.

[zoobie]

LOL...I've never in my life heard anyone use the term cracker.

I've never heard it actually used as an insult IRL. It's in Chris Rock's standup, and I've heard it in a historical context. My grandmother said it was based on one's hair being bleached and skin being tanned from long hours working in the fields. White people used it to insult lower class or poorer whites.

 

It was also the name of Atlanta's minor league baseball team at one time. Our Negro League team was the Atlanta Black Crackers.

 

I'm not denying it is used as a slur today, but it would be laughable to me. I clearly don't hang in the groups of people that normally insult each other with cracker and the n-word. Darn.

[Mrs Mungo]

The only time I've heard it used is by young urban people, both white and black.

Wow, really? I am truly amazed. I mostly have heard it from old rednecks.

[HRAAB]

My nephew (biracial), 25 years, uses the word frequently on his Facebook page - usually referring to his friends or basketball players.  He did not come from a poor family; his grandmother is a school principal, his parents college graduates, and he is a college graduate.  He was raised in the northwest.  I've never heard him use the word around family members - only seen it on Facebook.  I've never heard his father or grandfather use the word.  It does not appear to be offensive to his friends.  I figure he has the right; we (whites) don't.  As if I could anyway.  Even reading it makes me very, very uncomfortable.  There are books I won't read aloud because that word is in them, and I cannot say it.  

[Slojo]

I have caught just a tiny bit of the news surrounding the team owner with the racist comments, etc.

 

I was wondering though how the AA community feels about the N word?  I hear (mostly teens/young adults) African Americans using the word with and about each other.  A foster teen (Caucasian) we had last year uses it all of the time on her facebook page when referring to her friend who is African American........most of the time it is Ni**a instead of Ni**er if that makes any difference.  I have also heard teens/young adults say there are African Americans and then there are Ni**ers.

 

I don't want this to become a huge debate/issue on the board but just trying to understand this.  I will admit that we live in a very Caucasian (mostly Dutch) area.  Dh is Native American and the rest of us are part NA.  We have very few African American families here and often the AA or biracial kids in the area are those who are foster/adopted kids of other white families  There is a rapidly growing Hispanic community and a few Middle Eastern but few African Americans in our area.  The county north and the one east of us have a much higher population (bigger cities).

 

I'm African American and I'd say the AA community feels lots of different things about the N word. I think it is dying a slow death - along with other phrases that may have held some value as a way to inoculate against the pain of the word in the wider society. I grew up hearing the word in the reclaiming sense of "If we say it, and use it in endearing or neutral terms, then it holds no power when they say it."  I was raised by parents and grandparents for whom the word was very real, and used in contexts with very serious consequences for African Americans (my parents were children in the pre-civil rights south, so to hear the word "N..." meant something very different, and was tied to an entirely caste and legal system of oppression.  

 

But even hearing it growing up got tricky too because I know that not every black person who has used the word has used it in a way that was truly liberating. Some people have used it to signal derogatory sentiments toward their own racial group (i.e., self-hatred).

 

At the end of the day I come down on the side of "better not to use it," and agree with Oprah that as a way of honoring my ancestors, some of whom heard the word "N...." as the very last word they heard before being lynched, I will not use it.  At the same time, I don't feel the need to launch into a history lesson with a random group of teens I don't know every time I hear it from (black) teens -- I will assume they are experimenting with words in the way that most teens do and also that such lessons are best delivered in the context of relationship (which I wouldn't have with random people on the street). I also feel like sometimes people need to turn a word on its head before letting it go, and if that's what they are doing, well, I can try to hear where they are coming from without getting all up in arms.  

 

I do not apply the same standard to non- African American people. You're not "reclaiming" anything, so just stay away from the word given its singularly hurtful and offensive status in the history of our country. I really think, as things shift for all of us Americans racially, that it is dying a slow death.

 

I could say more, but I have to go for now. Thanks for being willing to raise the question. The more the question is raised in an earnest way, the better understanding their will be. 

[Ottakee]

Slojo--thanks for answering.

[BigMamaBird]

Wow, really? I am truly amazed. I mostly have heard it from old rednecks.

 

Except on TV, I've never heard the term used by a white person about or towards another person.  Sure, I've heard it used in discussions about the word.  But even my Grandpa and Grandma who were bigoted never used it.  

[mom2scouts]

I know.  But I'm not white, either...I'm sorta of peachy pinkish color.  Unless it's winter, then I'm the color of a white mushroom, LOL!

 

I always laugh when I hear the term "people of color" because it makes me think, "Hey, I'm a person of color even if it is a pinkish peach color"?

[Guest]

We're mongrels.

 

I look caucasian but ds doesn't. It would not bother me to hear him owning the "N" word when he is a tween or teen to defuse its power to be used in a hurtful manner against him, but it will never cross my own lips under any circumstances.

 

dd is allowed to use analogous words when describing her experiences as a young woman, but ds is not allowed to use the female dog word unless he is describing female dogs or the hand cultivation tool word unless he is describing hand cultivation tools or the flood prevention device word unless he is describing flood prevention devices.

[In2why]

My kids are of many different races and neither they, nor any of their many friends are allowed to use that word in my house or when I am present.  Same thing for the nasty word for gay men.  I actually hear that more than the N word from my kids friends.  My house, my rules.  I believe there will come a time when they choose to say whatever is shocking, but like most things I expect the values they were taught will return to them before long.  

[Farrar]

I live in an inner city neighborhood.  Never heard the term.  I think I'd probably start laughing.

 

Yeah, I thought you did.  I did laugh the first time I heard it.  It's a funny thing because the people saying it are basically saying, "gentrification sucks" in the most racist way they can.  But, of course, like most gentrifiers, I have mixed feelings about my role.  Probably the reason that I haven't heard it in awhile is that now we're the old guard and there's a whole new generation of people way, way richer (and younger and unmarrieder) than us.