elegantlion Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 UPDATE: Guess paypal decided for me. They decided in her favor about an hour ago. Money was refunded. I had just spoken with paypal earlier today to add my side of the story and then got the email 3 hours later that they had ruled already. That's really crappy, I'm sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 UPDATE: Guess paypal decided for me. They decided in her favor about an hour ago. Money was refunded. I had just spoken with paypal earlier today to add my side of the story and then got the email 3 hours later that they had ruled already. Well that is upsetting. It seems we have heard stories like this before and many people have just decided selling online isn't worth it. I'm sorry. Paypal certainly jumped the gun on this one! I hope you will be able to collect on insurance quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 That's terrible! Now what will Paypal do if the package is delivered and she won't pay up? I hope you get the insurance refund. Please update. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Her idea is that the box would be stamped with a special stamp and that stamp would mean that the package should not be opened. Yes, that is what I used to do when I used media mail ... take it in person unsealed to the post office to have it inspected and stamped. But, that one time, the package still arrived open and missing pieces with a note that it was inspected. I complained to the post office and they said they can open it at any time to determine if it qualifies for media mail - it didn't matter if it was stamped as inspected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I'm so sorry, that's ridiculous. This is why it was WRONG of her to file her claim so early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 OP, I am so sorry. That really stinks - especially since you were following protocol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 UPDATE: Guess paypal decided for me. They decided in her favor about an hour ago. Money was refunded. I had just spoken with paypal earlier today to add my side of the story and then got the email 3 hours later that they had ruled already. I would be sure to contact your post office to see about having the package returned to you if it is found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 UPDATE: Guess paypal decided for me. They decided in her favor about an hour ago. Money was refunded. I had just spoken with paypal earlier today to add my side of the story and then got the email 3 hours later that they had ruled already. I'm sorry. What an awful situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Yes, that is what I used to do when I used media mail ... take it in person unsealed to the post office to have it inspected and stamped. But, that one time, the package still arrived open and missing pieces with a note that it was inspected. I complained to the post office and they said they can open it at any time to determine if it qualifies for media mail - it didn't matter if it was stamped as inspected. But, my neighbor's idea is that once it is stamped officially they are no longer allowed to open it. That procedure isn't currently in place that I know of. I wasn't even aware I could ask to have it stamped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 That is so unfair!!! Now if the woman receives the package, she will almost certainly keep it... for FREE. :angry: Maybe that was her plan all along. :glare: I would keep an eye on the tracking info, because if the package is delivered to the woman, I would demand that PayPal make good on the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanvan Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 That is so unfair!!! Now if the woman receives the package, she will almost certainly keep it... for FREE. :angry: Maybe that was her plan all along. :glare: I would keep an eye on the tracking info, because if the package is delivered to the woman, I would demand that PayPal make good on the money. Yes, I'd like to know if that happens. I've read of things like this happening. Makes it scary to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysticmomma Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2samlibby Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 That is so unfair!!! Now if the woman receives the package, she will almost certainly keep it... for FREE. :angry: Maybe that was her plan all along. :glare: I would keep an eye on the tracking info, because if the package is delivered to the woman, I would demand that PayPal make good on the money. It really makes me wonder if that was the plan. Hard to say, but it sure does stink. Very disappointing. Thanks for your support Catwoman. Yes, I'd like to know if that happens. I've read of things like this happening. Makes it scary to sell. This is my biggest worry that she will end up with the box in a day or two and now already has the money. I sure hope that the package is on it's way to GA to the dead mail center, so I can receive the insurance money. Thanks everyone for the well wishes. They have helped. I've been on the verge of tears since I got the email this evening from paypal. It's been a lot of extra stress that wasn't really needed right now. I guess I'll stop worrying now about it and just turn the insurance claim in on the 6th and hope that isn't too big of a hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 UPDATE: Guess paypal decided for me. They decided in her favor about an hour ago. Money was refunded. I had just spoken with paypal earlier today to add my side of the story and then got the email 3 hours later that they had ruled already. Wow. How can they get away with that when it's too soon to even file an insurance claim? I sure hope the post office doesn't find the box and deliver it to her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I would call paypal and ask what happens if she gets her package? I almost don't wanna use paypal now and if I do I will not let money sit in it. It almost does sound like that was her plan all along because everyone knows you don't file claims until you have too and you were being helpful with the whole thing. I am just really sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readwithem Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 UPDATE: Guess paypal decided for me. They decided in her favor about an hour ago. Money was refunded. I had just spoken with paypal earlier today to add my side of the story and then got the email 3 hours later that they had ruled already. I'm so sorry. :grouphug: I hope you are "made whole" somewhere very soon. I haven't sold in years, it just got to where it seems buyers want nearly new for nearly nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I'm not surprised PayPal ruled in her favor and that fast. It's pretty typical from other experiences I've heard about. Pretty much if the seller can't prove delivery (and of course it can't be proven with this one since it's not been delivered), PayPal will refund. They don't seem to care if something was sent media mail, insurance claims can't be filed, etc. The actions of this buyer really make me think she changed her mind and just wanted her money back. In order for a package to be sent to the mail recovery center, it has to have neither a to address or a return address. This is very unlikely unless someone opened it to inspect it and really screwed up the packaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnificent_baby Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Sorry that happened to you, that stinks. Hoping the insurance process will be smooth for you. I learned quickly when selling anything on eBay, to pay extra for tracking if it was anything other than priority. I used the priority flat rate boxes frequently, and sometimes it was a little more expensive, but really worth the tracking and built in insurance (I think around $50?). I figured shipping into selling price and didn't seem to hurt any potential sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Sorry that happened to you, that stinks. Hoping the insurance process will be smooth for you. I learned quickly when selling anything on eBay, to pay extra for tracking if it was anything other than priority. I used the priority flat rate boxes frequently, and sometimes it was a little more expensive, but really worth the tracking and built in insurance (I think around $50?). I figured shipping into selling price and didn't seem to hurt any potential sales. As I understand it there WAS a tracking number and she DID pay to insure the package. And put the return and send addresses on separately so if one was damaged the other would still be intact. She did everything right. The buyer just jumped the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnificent_baby Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 As I understand it there WAS a tracking number and she DID pay to insure the package. And put the return and send addresses on separately so if one was damaged the other would still be intact. She did everything right. The buyer just jumped the gun. Oh I know she insured it. I didn't realize it had tracking on it, maybe I read it wrong. My point was that the priority flat rate boxes were ideal, especially with heavy curriculum. Many times there wasn't a big difference between sending regular versus priority when using the flat rate boxes. It was just a friendly suggestion for anyone sending expensive and/or heavy material, as IME, it was worth the difference in cost. Might not have made a difference for her situation since she jumped the gun, but it makes for quick delivery with built in benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothersweets Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 UPDATE: Guess paypal decided for me. They decided in her favor about an hour ago. Money was refunded. I had just spoken with paypal earlier today to add my side of the story and then got the email 3 hours later that they had ruled already. Awww, shoot. I'm sorry to hear this and surprised that Paypal would push everything along so quickly. I hope you are able to get your insurance money without any hassle. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeschoolingHearts&Minds Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 :grouphug: More and more I'm thinking it just isn't worth it to sell stuff. Hate to say it, but I think the buyer got cold feet and decided she didn't want to spend that money. It was unreasonable for her to file with Paypal so quickly---she had plenty of time to wait a bit and see if the package showed up. Her actions say: I want the money more than the thing I ordered. She could be a scammer, for all you know. I would make sure that the admin for the group you sold this curriculum through is made aware of the situation---other people should be able to make an informed decision about the risks involved before agreeing to enter into a business relationship with this person. Even if she's just a nervous nelly, I would want to know about it so I could decide it if was worth it to me to try to work with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I was afraid of this :( Yes, I am afraid the package will still show up. And now that she has her money back... what will happen with it? Paypal is in the wrong here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I think PayPal will force you to refund her If you didn't have delivery confirmation showing delivered on the package. As I recall from my days on eBay when I sold tons, they were pretty hard-nosed about it, too. ETA: Oops, I posted before I saw about PayPal's decision. Not a surprise; Paypal is very seller-unfriendly. In the future, be sure to ship with insurance and delivery confirmation for PayPal protection, or don't accept PayPal. But you have insurance, right, so you should be able to get your money back? I stopped shipping Media Mail when I accepted PayPal. Now I only ship Media Mail when the buyer pays by check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I think PayPal will force you to refund her If you didn't have delivery confirmation showing delivered on the package. As I recall from my days on eBay when I sold tons, they were pretty hard-nosed about it, too. ETA: Oops, I posted before I saw about PayPal's decision. Not a surprise; Paypal is very seller-unfriendly. In the future, be sure to ship with insurance and delivery confirmation for PayPal protection, or don't accept PayPal. But you have insurance, right, so you should be able to get your money back? I stopped shipping Media Mail when I accepted PayPal. Now I only ship Media Mail when the buyer pays by check. Reefgazer, She DID ship with insurance and delivery confirmation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2samlibby Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 Update #2: I have meant to reply to some of your responses, but had to step back from this for a day or two. It was stressing me out too much and I had gotten busy with having to show our house -- 3 in 2 days. Sure makes it hard to get any homeschooling done! Anyway, the moderator of the Buy/Sell/Trade group, notified me today that she has received the curriculum. We don't know yet whether or not it is my set, BUT, I'm guessing it is the set I mailed her, as she has now blocked me on facebook. The tracking notice has not changed at all from this shipment, which makes me think that the post office has really messed up the tracking on this one. PayPal told me that the only way they would reverse the payment would be IF I had notification from the post office that was delivered with signature confirmation. I had not added that, so I'm guessing that I'm screwed with paypal. Since she has blocked me, I know I can't count on the goodness of her heart to pay me. :lol: Hopefully, UPS can make good on their insurance . . or cough up proof they delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2samlibby Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 I would call paypal and ask what happens if she gets her package? I almost don't wanna use paypal now and if I do I will not let money sit in it. It almost does sound like that was her plan all along because everyone knows you don't file claims until you have too and you were being helpful with the whole thing. I am just really sorry. I did call paypal immediately after they refunded the money and they said that I can appeal, but the only way they will reverse the transaction is if there is signature confirmation that the package was delivered. :( I had only insured the package. Though my receipt from mailing does say, USPS signature tracking, so I guess I need to check to see what that means. I'm not surprised PayPal ruled in her favor and that fast. It's pretty typical from other experiences I've heard about. Pretty much if the seller can't prove delivery (and of course it can't be proven with this one since it's not been delivered), PayPal will refund. They don't seem to care if something was sent media mail, insurance claims can't be filed, etc. The actions of this buyer really make me think she changed her mind and just wanted her money back. In order for a package to be sent to the mail recovery center, it has to have neither a to address or a return address. This is very unlikely unless someone opened it to inspect it and really screwed up the packaging. Yes, that was their reason - that I had provided proof of mailing and that they could look and see that it was not delivered. However, the woman I talked to from paypal kept trying to tell me that it hadn't been delivered because it had been sent back to me, which is incorrect. They would have really had to screw up the packaging as I had taped each address index card on separate sides of the flaps of the box. Neither was taped down at the center where you would cut a box open. :grouphug: More and more I'm thinking it just isn't worth it to sell stuff. Hate to say it, but I think the buyer got cold feet and decided she didn't want to spend that money. It was unreasonable for her to file with Paypal so quickly---she had plenty of time to wait a bit and see if the package showed up. Her actions say: I want the money more than the thing I ordered. She could be a scammer, for all you know. I would make sure that the admin for the group you sold this curriculum through is made aware of the situation---other people should be able to make an informed decision about the risks involved before agreeing to enter into a business relationship with this person. Even if she's just a nervous nelly, I would want to know about it so I could decide it if was worth it to me to try to work with her. I did make the admin aware, and I'm thankful for that. She is the one that alerted me that my buyer posted today that she had received her curriculum. We don't know for sure that it the set she bought from me yet, but since she just received her money back on Tuesday and this is Friday, it is very likely that it is the set that was en route to her. I'm starting to think that maybe money orders are the way to go for selling . . . I was afraid of this :( Yes, I am afraid the package will still show up. And now that she has her money back... what will happen with it? Paypal is in the wrong here. Agree! :( I'm pretty sure she has the package and the money. And according to paypal, unless I have signature confirmation, I'm out the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2samlibby Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 Reefgazer, She DID ship with insurance and delivery confirmation. I only paid for insurance, but according to my receipt it says USPS signature Tracking #, also. The lady at the grocery store where I mailed it said it included tracking as part of the insurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalsummer Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 You can call paypal again; sometimes their agents are better or worse than other times. If there is now confirmation of delivery via your tracking (it does not have to be signature, just confirmed delivered via USPS), paypal should reverse and find in your favor. You can't really blame them for refunding people who never get their packages; that is why a lot of people buy through paypal, to have the buyer protection paypal offers (refund if you don't get the product you paid for). If you're using paypal as a payment processor, those are the terms you agreed to. But since it has been delivered, I don't see the problem? They should cover you in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2samlibby Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 You can call paypal again; sometimes their agents are better or worse than other times. If there is now confirmation of delivery via your tracking (it does not have to be signature, just confirmed delivered via USPS), paypal should reverse and find in your favor. You can't really blame them for refunding people who never get their packages; that is why a lot of people buy through paypal, to have the buyer protection paypal offers (refund if you don't get the product you paid for). If you're using paypal as a payment processor, those are the terms you agreed to. But since it has been delivered, I don't see the problem? They should cover you in this case. The tracking label still says its a dead package. :( I don't blame paypal for refunding, BUT I do think both she and paypal were extremely quick to refund. The box left my town April 17th from Nebraska to Arizona going media mail. On April 25th, she filed a claim with paypal. On April 28th, she escalated the claim, and on the 29th they ruled in her favor. 12 days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 It sounds like she totally had this scam planned. I hope if the moderator determines it was the curriculum you sent that she gets outed and banned from the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 For $300 I would consider sending a certified letter highly suggesting she pay or face legal action, but I'd give her the weekend to come clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 It sounds like she totally had this scam planned. I hope if the moderator determines it was the curriculum you sent that she gets outed and banned from the group. I agree. If the post office website still says the package is dead, maybe you can still get reimbursement from the postal insurance. It would feel a little weird to file a claim when you suspect the buyer received the curriculum, but you can't be certain it was your package if the po tracking hasn't been updated, and you really are out the money. I'm sorry this whole situation happened to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I would file a complaint with PayPal, describing how this buyer manipulated the postal system to mess up the delivery. Give them all of the correspondence between you two. Also the moderator of the buy/sell group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I think the dead package is a coincidence over which she had no control. Perhaps her plan was to file a claim quickly, get the money, and keep the curriculum too. A less nefarious idea is that she had buyer's remorse or found she needed the money for something else and tried to get out of buying the curriculum. Perhaps she will send the curriculum back so it will be like this never happened to her. The least nefarious would be that she was nervous, jumped the gun, and will be sending you a check. Given that she hasn't contacted you to say that, though, i doubt this is the case. Agree with the above about sending all the correspondence to the mod of the site so she can be banned if she doesn't quickly cut you a check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I did make the admin aware, and I'm thankful for that. She is the one that alerted me that my buyer posted today that she had received her curriculum. We don't know for sure that it the set she bought from me yet, but since she just received her money back on Tuesday and this is Friday, it is very likely that it is the set that was en route to her. I'm starting to think that maybe money orders are the way to go for selling . . . Agree! :( I'm pretty sure she has the package and the money. And according to paypal, unless I have signature confirmation, I'm out the money. Can you have the admin take a screen shot of her saying she got her curriculum, and then have her say something like "Oh yay, you finally got your xyz curriculum? How Exciting." and see if the lady responds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I would be sure to contact your local post office and explain that it is believed that there was a possibility the package was received and see if there is any update on the tracking number. I have had written notes under the tracking number, but the "system" didn't update. That is what happened with my last "dead" package, which showed up the next day. The official tracking number never updated, but there were notes from the post office when they searched under that tracking number. If it remains dead then I would file an insurance claim because paypal already refunded the money based on the post office status. If they can't prove that it was delivered then they should cover your insurance claim. I would be sure to keep contact with the moderator of the group you sold through so that some action could be taken if it is shown that this person did in fact receive the materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2samlibby Posted May 3, 2014 Author Share Posted May 3, 2014 I would be sure to contact your local post office and explain that it is believed that there was a possibility the package was received and see if there is any update on the tracking number. I have had written notes under the tracking number, but the "system" didn't update. That is what happened with my last "dead" package, which showed up the next day. The official tracking number never updated, but there were notes from the post office when they searched under that tracking number. If it remains dead then I would file an insurance claim because paypal already refunded the money based on the post office status. If they can't prove that it was delivered then they should cover your insurance claim. I would be sure to keep contact with the moderator of the group you sold through so that some action could be taken if it is shown that this person did in fact receive the materials. That is good to know that they might have additional notes. My first plan on action is to head to the post office Monday morning. The moderator is aware of the situation. She sent a pm to the buyer of my set and the buyer responded with anger and is threatening the moderator with harassment. So, it is seeming more and more likely that it is the set I sold that arrived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 That is good to now that they might have additional notes. My first plan on action is to head to the post office Monday morning. The moderator is aware of the situation. She sent a pm to the buyer of my set and the buyer responded with anger and is threatening the moderator with harassment. So, it is seeming more and more likely that it is the set I sold that arrived. Wow, what a total nightmare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The moderator is aware of the situation. She sent a pm to the buyer of my set and the buyer responded with anger and is threatening the moderator with harassment. So, it is seeming more and more likely that it is the set I sold that arrived. Wow. After how she treated you she's threatening the moderator with harassment because the mod asked if that was the curriculum you sent her? Talk about ballsy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Call me crazy but if I didn't have a check or my curriculum back in 21 days I would file a police report in her town. Maybe having them stop by would put some fear into her. Depends on the town though. I doubt they would even bother in a larger city. I know they would stop by in my town to see what was going on. ETA: In my town filing a police report is as simple as filling out an online form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Um_2_4 Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Gather proof, then check into filing not only a police report, but possibly a report with the postmaster (mail fraud) and internet crimes division (since this was via a website and email). I had a somewhat similar experience, but I was the buyer and it was more $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Gather proof, then check into filing not only a police report, but possibly a report with the postmaster (mail fraud) and internet crimes division (since this was via a website and email). I had a somewhat similar experience, but I was the buyer and it was more $$$. If there is no further information from the post office then I agreee to putting it on record. Ask the moderator to simply screen shot any information that she can regarding the curriculum, and file a report for fraud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.