Feedback needed -- Post Office/Curriculum Sale issue (Update)

[mom2samlibby]

Looking for a some feedback here on what you would do.  I sold some curriculum on a facebook site on April 14.  My buyer paid me that evening, so I packaged it up the next day and took it to our local grocery store to mail it.  I've sold quite a bit on amazon and other sites, so I had packaged it very securely with the both my address and buyer's on individual index cards -- taped on separately.    I sent it media mail and also did insurance because it was a large amount of books and $$$.  The mail is picked up at 4 from the store and I had mailed it after 5, so it went out the next day.  I sent the tracking info to the buyer and told her that it would probably take about a week to get to her, but to let me know when it arrived.  The box would have left my town on a Thursday.  Buyer lives several states away, so I knew it would take awhile for it to get there.  On Monday, she said that the box wasn't there.  I was sick, in bed that day (and the next several), so I don't think I replied to her message that day.  On Wednesday, I received another message that she had contacted her post office because the box hadn't arrived.  (According to the USPS website, media mail takes 2 - 8 business days to arrive).  Wed. was 5 days since the box left my post office.  I replied that I had sent it media mail and that it probably needed a few more days to arrive.  Then, I received a message that she had contacted the post office again and started a trace on the package.  Friday, she sent me another message that the post office hadn't called her yet about finding the package.  I replied that they were still in that time frame of under 8 business days for media mail.  Then I received a message that the tracking info had changed.  It had been updated to say that the package was now dead and could not be delivered to either one of us.  I had to work Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, so I wasn't able to contact the post office to find out what had happened.  I told her that I would look into it on Monday, when I had time to check on it.  

 

Today, I spent over an hour at the post office trying to find out what has happened.  My post office told me that they did not put a note on the tracking to say why it is marked dead now.  She said it could have been damaged, the labels could have come off, the box could have opened and they can't figure out what was in the box, or it could have been from the trace that was put on it.  She took my info and is trying to track it down.  The post office told me they would need a couple of days to do some checking.  Mail lady said that IF they can't track it down then I need to file my claim.  According to their tracking label, it was sent to dead mail on Friday, the 25th, and so it probably has not arrived there yet, she said.  Seller on her end has been in contact with her post office also trying to track down this box.  

 

I have spent all morning at the post office getting the ball rolling on my end on tracking this down and relayed information to the buyer.  After I was in touch with her, I received notification from paypal that she has filed a claim.  I'm getting very frustrated with this situation.  Right now, I'm out books and shipping money. I understand that she is also out money without books.  I'm wondering if the tracking down early has anything to do with the box being sent to dead mail.  

 

I have responded to the claim that I'm working with the post office to track this box down.  

 

Do I need to refund right away?  Is it ok to wait until we have some answers?  Am I in the wrong?  (Maybe I'm just cranky . . .I'm still sick with the sinus infection/ear infection/bronchitis that I came down with last week, we are building a house, and trying to sell ours . . I'm stressed and I didn't need this headache right now).  I thought I had done my part.  I shipped the next day, box was very well packaged, I purchased the insurance, I was in touch to let her know it was shipped and the tracking number, and I'm working on tracking it down.  UGH! 

 

UPDATE:  Guess paypal decided for me.  They decided in her favor about an hour ago.  Money was refunded.  I had just spoken with paypal earlier today to add my side of the story and then got the email 3 hours later that they had ruled already.  

 

Update #2:  I have meant to reply to some of your responses, but had to step back from this for a day or two.  It was stressing me out too much and I had gotten busy with having to show our house -- 3 in 2 days.  Sure makes it hard to get any homeschooling done!

 

Anyway, the moderator of the Buy/Sell/Trade group, notified me today that she has received the curriculum.  We don't know yet whether or not it is my set, BUT, I'm guessing it is the set I mailed her, as she has now blocked me on facebook.  The tracking notice has not changed at all from this shipment, which makes me think that the post office has really messed up the tracking on this one.  PayPal told me that the only way they would reverse the payment would be IF I had notification from the post office that was delivered with signature confirmation.  I had not added that, so I'm guessing that I'm screwed with paypal. Since she has blocked me, I know I can't count on the goodness of her heart to pay me.    :lol:   Hopefully, UPS can make good on their insurance . . or cough up proof they delivered.  

 

 

 

[Upward Journey]

I can't see that you've done anthing wrong at all!

[kitten18]

Sounds like she needs to chill out!!! It's only been 14 days since the date of the sale.

[HomeschoolingHearts&Minds]

:iagree:

 

In my experience, media mail can (and often will) take much more than 2-8 business days---that timeframe is not guaranteed.  If you look at their chart, they say to contact customer service AFTER 14 business days (and it hasn't even been that long):  http://faq.usps.com/adaptivedesktop/faq.jsp?ef=USPSFAQ

 

At one time, I know they had it posted on their site that it could take up to 21 business days, depending upon the distance.

 

FWIW, one of my packages coming from Amazon (2 day prime) got misdirected by FedEx and went from down the street from me to halfway across the country and back and took over an extra week.  It happens.  There is still a good chance that the package will show up on her doorstep, USPS tracking isn't so great.  You've done nothing wrong and it was premature for her to file a Paypal claim given that you are working to resolve the situation.  I expect that she is nervous because PP only gives 30 days to file a claim, but she could have given you at least another week.

 

 

[vonfirmath]

I'm glad you insured it! That's really weird that it was marked dead so fast though!

 

(I didn't know you could insure something going media mail? Good to know!)

 

 

[LizzyBee]

Just make sure you have all your paperwork for responding to the paypal claim.  The buyer definitely jumped the gun on this one. Media mail can take weeks and the package is insured.

[mom2samlibby]

Thanks all!!!!  I appreciate your thoughts.  I've been feeling very pressured this whole time.  I've never had someone contact me so many times after I've given them the tracking info.   I'm still crossing my fingers that it will turn up, but am thankful that I decided to buy insurance.  I usually don't, but it was close to $300 in curriculum.  

 

 

[mom2samlibby]

Wow - she just escalated the claim with payapl.  This has been a very disappointing chain of events.  

[elegantlion]

Media mail used to state up to 28 days before you could even file a claim. If she was expecting it sooner, she should have asked for expedited shipping. 

 

I use media mail, but honestly I don't trust media mail. I would never send something worth $300 via that route, it's just in the system too long and with too much risk of being mishandled. 

 

She really jumped the gun in expecting the package in a few days and then filing a claim. I'm glad you insured it, hope it shows up so you don't need to use it. 

[Kathryn]

She sounds crazy.

[kitten18]

Wow - she just escalated the claim with payapl. This has been a very disappointing chain of events.

What in the world? She sounds like a nutter.

[mom2samlibby]

What in the world? She sounds like a nutter.

 

Yeah, that was my thought when she questioned the tracking number without even trying it and emailed me 15 times over the week long period.  Maybe I'd be better off to refund the money and call it good.  I don't have time for this!  My only issue with doing that is that there is a chance it could still show up at her house and then she would have both $$$ and curriculum and that I can't file a claim with USPS until it's been 21 days since it's been mailed.  We are only on day 13. . . .sigh.

 

The lady I spoke with today at the post office did say that there was a possibility that they "killed" the movement on it because of the trace she requested last week.  But, they didn't mark the reason, so we aren't really sure what has happened yet.  I wish she would just settle down and wait a few days.  

[abba12]

Yeah, media mail can take a few weeks. It is supposed to be quicker than that but as I understand it, they just fit whatever they can on the truck after the rest of the mail is loaded, and any extra waits until the next day. When I shop US websites/ebay there's lots of people reminding buyers that media mail can take two to three weeks during busy periods.

 

There's a good chance she screwed it up by trying to track it down way too early, and her post office messed up for letting her do so. I don't know enough about american postage to know what to do about dead mail, but I would say you've done nothing wrong. If you have tracking and proof of postage the paypal claim shouldn't get anywhere, just stay calm with them and the post office and work on recovering your money

 

She sounds like an overparanoid crazy to me. But I have heard ebay sellers say that they have had people buy items on a saturday and then complain and file paypal claims when the item doesn't arrive monday morning. Some people have no concept of the postal system.

 

I do agree that, for next time, I wouldn't post anything worth more than $50 via media mail. 

[Catwoman]

Immediately send PayPal a full account of what happened, in addition to providing them copies of every single email the woman sent you (along with your replies.) Request that they wait until you hear from the post office until they make a decision and remind them that the package is still within the media mail delivery time frame.

 

I think the woman is a nut and is regretting her purchase, so she's trying to bully you into giving her a refund by making a big fuss over the "missing" package. Don't give her a dime until you find out what's going on, or until PayPal decides in her favor.

 

It's clear you're trying to locate the package, as well as to work with the buyer, so PayPal will probably allow a bit more time to see if the post office can get the items to her.

 

Sorry you have to deal with such an impatient person!!!

[Mrs Mungo]

Even if you packaged it perfectly? The post office can open and check media mail. Browsing this board for sales gone wrong will show you that this is how items are often lost. I have had a box sent media mail take 6 weeks to get to me. I don't send anything media mail unless I can afford for it to get lost.

[mom@shiloh]

I think she should have been more patient. I think she should relax and wait for the process to work itself out.  I think it was over the top to keep hounding you about it. But, how about if we give her some grace?  Instead of saying she's "crazy" "paranoid" and other unflattering adjectives, how about we assume the best of her?  Maybe she's really young.  Maybe she's under alot of financial pressure.  Maybe her car broke down. Maybe she's going through a difficult pregnancy.  We've all had times in our lives when stress in one area made us act a little crazy in another area.  Assure her that it's all going to work out (good for you to get insurance!!)  and give her grace.  

[JudoMom]

I think she should have been more patient. I think she should relax and wait for the process to work itself out.  I think it was over the top to keep hounding you about it. But, how about if we give her some grace?  Instead of saying she's "crazy" "paranoid" and other unflattering adjectives, how about we assume the best of her?  Maybe she's really young.  Maybe she's under alot of financial pressure.  Maybe her car broke down. Maybe she's going through a difficult pregnancy.  We've all had times in our lives when stress in one area made us act a little crazy in another area.  Assure her that it's all going to work out (good for you to get insurance!!)  and give her grace.  

 

:iagree:

 

I've bought and sold a lot over the years.  I had one package (a Sonlight core) arrive with books missing, and it's a sinking feeling.  But the USPS reimbursed the buyer.  And I'm currently waiting on a claim reimbursement from a seller because my box arrived without 2 of the 4 math books in it (she's filed with the USPS trying to get the actual replacement cost of the two books).  It's a horrible feeling when something you've bought or sold goes missing.  It's even worse if you don't have any/much disposable income.  Instead of assuming she's crazy or trying to scam, I'd assume she is just scared she's lost a lot of money.

 

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this though!  It is a horrible feeling, and it's a pain in the neck.  Make sure you have your post office receipt so you can file an insurance claim ASAP.  I've never had the USPS tell me that media mail would only take 2-8 days.  They always remind me it could take a couple of weeks, though it usually doesn't.  Hopefully they'll find out soon why the package is saying it's dead.  I would definitely be in communication with Paypal, though.

 

UGH.  :(

[shanvan]

I've been on the other end of a somewhat similar situation (except I waited appropriate amount of time), and I'm agreeing with give the buyer some grace.  That's not easy b/c you are dealing with the hassle of tracking the package, possibly filing an insurance claim, and answering the buyer's nervous emails.  And, she did jump the gun with tracing.  As far as all the emails, she probably got very nervous about you having to work and not being able to deal with the situation right away.  She doesn't know you and has no way of knowing if you are honest and telling the truth, or just trying to put her off, and it's a lot of money.  I had a package arrive obviously opened and missing most of the curriculum I bought.  Seller used media mail and could care less what had happened and flat out stated she would not give me any money back b/c she needed it and already spent it on her Ds's curriculum.  I was absolutely sick over the whole thing.  That's just to let you know there are some very callus sellers out there and some who are flaky and don't respond to emails, or are dishonest.  I'm not saying you are that type of seller, but they are out there.

 

I agree with whoever said not to send large purchases via media mail.  I've got some curriculum worth several hundred dollars which I will probably sell at some point and I'll be eating the extra $ so I can send it priority.  I want peace of mind.  And the PO is getting very uppity about media mail.  Every time I send a package the woman behind the counter threatens me "Okay.  You know this is subject to inspection."  Every time she says that I picture the contents of my package strewn all over the PO and the buyer receiving an empty box.  I'm back to selling old style and asking the buyer to please email me directly that the item has arrived.  That way I have proof beyond the tracking info and delivery confirmation. I'm always relieved when I receive that email.  So far all my items this year have arrived safe and sound.  

 

I hope the PO figures the problem out soon so that you can have a resolution.  I know you are tempted to refund now so you don't have to deal with it, but I'd contact paypal like another poster mentioned and see if they will wait for the PO.  

[milovany]

I don't think she's nutter, I think she's probably like you -- there's $300 at stake and she's nervous about that.  I would be, too.  Sure she jumped the gun a little bit but it's understandable that she's nervous about this transaction.  And no, I don't think her checking on it would make it go to dead mail.  All you can do is wait to see. And you're right to stay in contact with PayPal.  Another thing I'd do (she may have already) is contact the Admin of the FB group and (without pointing fingers one way or the other) say there's a problem with a large order but that you're doing everything you can to fix the situation.  As a former Admin of just such a site (a very large one), most of the time when I received communication from members, it was from disgruntled buyers.  She may have already contacted them (although if she had, the Admin probably would have already contacted you; no reason not to be proactive). 

 

If the stuff is lost, even if you get money back from insurance, someone is out money since the goods disappeared.  You'd probably have to split the difference with her ($150/$150).  Well, I shouldn't save "have to," but the question will have to be asked -- should she or you be out the money?  It was really no one's fault. 

[AmyontheFarm]

 

 

Sorry this is happening to you.  I had the reverse this week.  The seller was upset my package hadn't arrived yet and I told her I wouldn't be worried about it for another 10 days.  It arrived 2 days later.  I do have some experience with ordering things and know that my packages will take longer to arrive than "normal".

[Alessandra]

I am a buyer, not a seller, so I can only make a comparison with other sellers. If you look at, say, Abebooks website, shipping times for standard can be 4-17 days. In the past few years, I have got very few, if any, books sent via media mail. Too unreliabłe?? Also check Abebooks refund info. I don't believe a buyer can initiate a claim until book is 8 days past due date plus has no tracking info. So, based on that comparison, I don't think you are at all unreasonable to expect buyer to wait.

[melmichigan]

I thought with the changes at the post office that if you bought insurance and were given a tracking number that they delivery date estimate was printed on the receipt?  I used to just get delivery confirmation on my media mail packages and now that just means tracking, which prints out an estimate date of arrival on my receipt with my tracking number.  Do you have a delivery date printed on your receipt?  Be sure to send all that information to paypal.  On the other hand the buyer should have waited at least 8 business days before they did anything.

 

:grouphug: I was told a package was "dead" and would have to be tracked down, to give them 3-5 days.  It arrived the next day.  I'm hoping for just such a resolution to your delivery problem.

[mom2samlibby]

Even if you packaged it perfectly? The post office can open and check media mail. Browsing this board for sales gone wrong will show you that this is how items are often lost. I have had a box sent media mail take 6 weeks to get to me. I don't send anything media mail unless I can afford for it to get lost.

That's good to know. I sell on amazon and have shipped out over 200+ media mail packages, along with a bunch of curriculum I sold last summer. Have never had a package go missing. They have never mentioned to me when I've mailed that they may check it. I only mentioned that it was packed well because I bought curriculum last year from someone and the box was not very sturdy, had several holes in it, and the addresses were on the same label. The tracking info I had said that it could not be delivered to either of us. When I questioned how that would be, they said that the label probably came off. I had placed each one on individually about 4 in. apart. with 5 strips of tape over them. If one had been wripped off, I had hoped the other would still be in tact. The mail lady I spoke with said it sounded like I had done all I could to insure the box would be safe in transit - lots of tape, box in excellent condition (no holes or tears to begin with), individual address labels with to and from clearly labeled.

[mom2samlibby]

Even if you packaged it perfectly? The post office can open and check media mail. Browsing this board for sales gone wrong will show you that this is how items are often lost. I have had a box sent media mail take 6 weeks to get to me. I don't send anything media mail unless I can afford for it to get lost.

That's good to know. I sell on amazon and have shipped out over 200+ media mail packages, along with a bunch of curriculum I sold last summer. Have never had a package go missing.

[mom2samlibby]

I've been on the other end of a somewhat similar situation (except I waited appropriate amount of time), and I'm agreeing with give the buyer some grace. That's not easy b/c you are dealing with the hassle of tracking the package, possibly filing an insurance claim, and answering the buyer's nervous emails. And, she did jump the gun with tracing. As far as all the emails, she probably got very nervous about you having to work and not being able to deal with the situation right away. She doesn't know you and has no way of knowing if you are honest and telling the truth, or just trying to put her off, and it's a lot of money. I had a package arrive obviously opened and missing most of the curriculum I bought. Seller used media mail and could care less what had happened and flat out stated she would not give me any money back b/c she needed it and already spent it on her Ds's curriculum. I was absolutely sick over the whole thing. That's just to let you know there are some very callus sellers out there and some who are flaky and don't respond to emails, or are dishonest. I'm not saying you are that type of seller, but they are out there.

 

I agree with whoever said not to send large purchases via media mail. I've got some curriculum worth several hundred dollars which I will probably sell at some point and I'll be eating the extra $ so I can send it priority. I want peace of mind. And the PO is getting very uppity about media mail. Every time I send a package the woman behind the counter threatens me "Okay. You know this is subject to inspection." Every time she says that I picture the contents of my package strewn all over the PO and the buyer receiving an empty box. I'm back to selling old style and asking the buyer to please email me directly that the item has arrived. That way I have proof beyond the tracking info and delivery confirmation. I'm always relieved when I receive that email. So far all my items this year have arrived safe and sound.

 

I hope the PO figures the problem out soon so that you can have a resolution. I know you are tempted to refund now so you don't have to deal with it, but I'd contact paypal like another poster mentioned and see if they will wait for the PO.

However, I was working the weekend, when our post office is closed. There was nothing I could have done over that time period anyway.

[mom2samlibby]

I think she should have been more patient. I think she should relax and wait for the process to work itself out. I think it was over the top to keep hounding you about it. But, how about if we give her some grace? Instead of saying she's "crazy" "paranoid" and other unflattering adjectives, how about we assume the best of her? Maybe she's really young. Maybe she's under alot of financial pressure. Maybe her car broke down. Maybe she's going through a difficult pregnancy. We've all had times in our lives when stress in one area made us act a little crazy in another area. Assure her that it's all going to work out (good for you to get insurance!!) and give her grace.

If you read my op, I didn't say anything unflattering. I asked if I was in the wrong and needed to be doing something different to resolve the issue. I never called her anything other then the buyer.

 

Yet, on the flip side, I'd have liked a bit of grace too. . . .She told me she filed the claim with paypal because I hadn't moved quick enough and seemed to be dragging my feet. She had filed it immediately on Friday, after I told her I would check with the post office on Monday. I've never had a buyer send me over 15 messages about their package. It is unfamiliar territory for me. I replied as quickly as I could to each, but 3 days last week I was sick in bed, the weekend I was working, and the rest of the time I was homeschooling or working on our houses (see below). I have not been on my computer 24/7 lately and I don't have a smart phone.

 

And yes, I understand stress. I have plenty of that right now. We are going on month 8 of building a house with the end no where in site, we listed our house last week, and I've been sick with ear and sinus infection, along with trying to homeschool.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, But it was probably the wrong time for me to be selling. My life is crazy right now. I thought I would clean out some things, so I wouldn't have to move them and get a little money for next year's books. I've never had a problem sending media mail and thought that is what media mail was created for - it was a 20 pound box. With insurance, I thought we were good to go. I didn't expect to have so many questions over why a box hadn't arrived via media mail in 3 days . . .

[mom2samlibby]

I thought with the changes at the post office that if you bought insurance and were given a tracking number that they delivery date estimate was printed on the receipt? I used to just get delivery confirmation on my media mail packages and now that just means tracking, which prints out an estimate date of arrival on my receipt with my tracking number. Do you have a delivery date printed on your receipt? Be sure to send all that information to paypal. On the other hand the buyer should have waited at least 8 business days before they did anything.

 

:grouphug: I was told a package was "dead" and would have to be tracked down, to give them 3-5 days. It arrived the next day. I'm hoping for just such a resolution to your delivery problem.

That would be an answer to prayer!!!

 

They did a date on the receipt, which probably made it worse. The date listed was the 21st, which kind of baffled me. Why do they put an estimated delivery date that is for only a couple of days, yet state media mail can take several weeks?

[LizzyBee]

 

If the stuff is lost, even if you get money back from insurance, someone is out money since the goods disappeared.  You'd probably have to split the difference with her ($150/$150).  Well, I shouldn't save "have to," but the question will have to be asked -- should she or you be out the money?  It was really no one's fault. 

 

I'm a little confused about this. I've been the buyer of lost packages before. The sellers weren't out any money, because I had paid them.  When the sellers got the insurance money from the post office, they issued me a full refund in each case.  In this case, if the package isn't found and if paypal refunds the buyer, the seller will keep the insurance proceeds. If paypal doesn't issue a refund, the seller will. Either way, everyone should be whole except the seller will be out the shipping cost unless she bought enough insurance to cover that cost too. 

[melmichigan]

That would be an answer to prayer!!!

 

They did a date on the receipt, which probably made it worse. The date listed was the 21st, which kind of baffled me. Why do they put an estimated delivery date that is for only a couple of days, yet state media mail can take several weeks?

There are a lot of changes with the post office right, especially with media mail.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I'm a little confused about this. I've been the buyer of lost packages before. The sellers weren't out any money, because I had paid them.  When the sellers got the insurance money from the post office, they issued me a full refund in each case.  In this case, if the package isn't found and if paypal refunds the buyer, the seller will keep the insurance proceeds. If paypal doesn't issue a refund, the seller will. Either way, everyone should be whole except the seller will be out the shipping cost unless she bought enough insurance to cover that cost too. 

 

 

:iagree: As a buyer, I will no longer accept media mail and will insist on priority mail.  I have received way too many torn/opened packages with missing product inside.  As a buyer, I only ship Priority Mail because that is the only one I trust.  Even if the package is inspected at the post office from where it is mailed, the USPS reserves the right to open any media mail package to insure that the contents actually qualify for that rate.   

[zoobie]

I'm a little confused about this. I've been the buyer of lost packages before. The sellers weren't out any money, because I had paid them.  When the sellers got the insurance money from the post office, they issued me a full refund in each case.  In this case, if the package isn't found and if paypal refunds the buyer, the seller will keep the insurance proceeds. If paypal doesn't issue a refund, the seller will. Either way, everyone should be whole except the seller will be out the shipping cost unless she bought enough insurance to cover that cost too. 

 

The buyer is asking to be refunded NOW, but the seller can't file insurance until 21 days has passed. If the seller refunds today and the package is delivered before the 21 days are up, she will not be able to file insurance. Therefore she will be out the purchase money, the shipping costs, and the goods. The buyer would be at the mercy of the seller to re-pay for the items out of the goodness of her heart.

[LizzyBee]

The buyer is asking to be refunded NOW, but the seller can't file insurance until 21 days has passed. If the seller refunds today and the package is delivered before the 21 days are up, she will not be able to file insurance. Therefore she will be out the purchase money, the shipping costs, and the goods. The buyer would be at the mercy of the seller to re-pay for the items out of the goodness of her heart.

 

Oh, I see.  I thought Milovany meant that they'd be out the money permanently and could perhaps split the loss, but maybe that's not what she meant.  Under no circumstances would I issue a refund before the 21 day period to file a po claim, and I hope the seller had already transferred the money out of paypal so that paypal can't issue a refund before that date!

[milovany]

Oh, I see.  I thought Milovany meant that they'd be out the money permanently and could perhaps split the loss, but maybe that's not what she meant.  ...

 

Milovany did mean that LOL.  It was something like 5 in the morning and I couldn't get the situation connected in my head correctly.  You're right. 

 

[mom2samlibby]

Oh, I see.  I thought Milovany meant that they'd be out the money permanently and could perhaps split the loss, but maybe that's not what she meant.  Under no circumstances would I issue a refund before the 21 day period to file a po claim, and I hope the seller had already transferred the money out of paypal so that paypal can't issue a refund before that date!

 

I had the foresight to do that last week because I saw this coming down the pipe.   I think I transferred a day before her claim was filed.  

 

I still have a week to go before I can file a claim.  This is only day 14 since I dropped it off for mailing.  

[mom@shiloh]

If you read my op, I didn't say anything unflattering. I asked if I was in the wrong and needed to be doing something different to resolve the issue. I never called her anything other then the buyer.

 

Yet, on the flip side, I'd have liked a bit of grace too. . . .She told me she filed the claim with paypal because I hadn't moved quick enough and seemed to be dragging my feet. She had filed it immediately on Friday, after I told her I would check with the post office on Monday. I've never had a buyer send me over 15 messages about their package. It is unfamiliar territory for me. I replied as quickly as I could to each, but 3 days last week I was sick in bed, the weekend I was working, and the rest of the time I was homeschooling or working on our houses (see below). I have not been on my computer 24/7 lately and I don't have a smart phone.

 

And yes, I understand stress. I have plenty of that right now. We are going on month 8 of building a house with the end no where in site, we listed our house last week, and I've been sick with ear and sinus infection, along with trying to homeschool.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, But it was probably the wrong time for me to be selling. My life is crazy right now. I thought I would clean out some things, so I wouldn't have to move them and get a little money for next year's books. I've never had a problem sending media mail and thought that is what media mail was created for - it was a 20 pound box. With insurance, I thought we were good to go. I didn't expect to have so many questions over why a box hadn't arrived via media mail in 3 days . . .

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were not giving her grace or that this situation isn't hard on you. I agree that you were not saying unflattering things about her.   I was responding to others who were saying what I perceive to be unkind things.  Honestly, It's probably a response to an issue much broader than your post.  I often read what others write and just wish people were a bit kinder.  I apologize.  I could have worded that better.

[LizzyBee]

Milovany did mean that LOL.  It was something like 5 in the morning and I couldn't get the situation connected in my head correctly.  You're right. 

 

 

LOL. I know the feeling.

 

[Kathryn]

I stand by "she sounds crazy," despite the chastisement from pp. Well-balanced people do not behave in the manner described by the OP, no matter how much money they've spent or how pregnant they may be. She's behaving irrationally and causing undue stress on someone else because of it.

[clarkacademy]

if you do not refund her on your own paypal will just shut your account until you do. I would not pay her back until you can file for the insurance claim.

[KidsHappen]

 

If the stuff is lost, even if you get money back from insurance, someone is out money since the goods disappeared.  You'd probably have to split the difference with her ($150/$150).  Well, I shouldn't save "have to," but the question will have to be asked -- should she or you be out the money?  It was really no one's fault. 

 

If the stuff is lost and insurance is paid then no one should be out any money. The PO will pay the OP the insurance and then she will refund the seller her money but she will still have the money that the buyer originally paid her. 

 

To the OP, if this does happen you need to ask the buyer to close the PP claim and you need to inform them that it was lost by the PO and insurance was paid. Also put this info in any feedback for the transaction. 

[Mothersweets]

:iagree: As a buyer, I will no longer accept media mail and will insist on priority mail.  I have received way too many torn/opened packages with missing product inside.  As a buyer, I only ship Priority Mail because that is the only one I trust.  Even if the package is inspected at the post office from where it is mailed, the USPS reserves the right to open any media mail package to insure that the contents actually qualify for that rate.   

 

I totally understand wanting to use only Priority but how do you afford it?!  If I add Priority shipping to what I sell - it is almost always $15 and the buyer won't want to purchase my items.

 

OP - I feel for you. The buyer totally jumped the gun on this. I hope it gets delivered and everyone is happy!

[shanvan]

I totally understand wanting to use only Priority but how do you afford it?!  If I add Priority shipping to what I sell - it is almost always $15 and the buyer won't want to purchase my items.

 

OP - I feel for you. The buyer totally jumped the gun on this. I hope it gets delivered and everyone is happy!

I do not pass on priority costs to the seller and I only use priority if it is a large sale (over $100-150).  I also only purchase insurance on items totaling $50 or more.   I am fully aware that if those smaller items do not arrive paypal will hold me responsible and I will have to refund the money, and I am prepared to do so.  I just eat the extra cost of priority shipping as the cost of doing business online and am grateful to make some $ off my used curriculum.  I rationalize losing out on a bit of the shipping costs as passing on a good deal to a fellow homeschooler.  I'm still getting more for my books than I would locally.  I like to sell my times fast, so I'm willing to make a little less than most sellers.

 

ETA: I think DER means that she asks to pay the extra fee for priority mail so that the seller can ship that way.  I hadn't ever thought of mentioning that as a possibility, but it's not a bad idea.  I've had packages arrive opened and sometimes missing items when they were sent media mail too. 

[Catwoman]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were not giving her grace or that this situation isn't hard on you. I agree that you were not saying unflattering things about her.   I was responding to others who were saying what I perceive to be unkind things.  Honestly, It's probably a response to an issue much broader than your post.  I often read what others write and just wish people were a bit kinder.  I apologize.  I could have worded that better.

I'm sorry, but the buyer's behavior was absolutely over-the-top, and my personal feeling is that she should have been the one showing mom2samlibby a bit of trust, kindness, and grace, and if she had, this thread never would have existed.

 

If mom2samlibby hadn't bothered to mail the package for a few weeks, I could understand the buyer being nervous and concerned, but the fact is that mom2samlibby did everything right -- including adding tracking information and insurance to the package -- and the buyer was almost immediately ridiculously unreasonable.

[kitten18]

I stand by "she sounds crazy," despite the chastisement from pp. Well-balanced people do not behave in the manner described by the OP, no matter how much money they've spent or how pregnant they may be. She's behaving irrationally and causing undue stress on someone else because of it.

Yep. I stand by my comment as well. She filed a PP claim more than 2 weeks before she needed to.

I say all this as a buyer, I have never sold anything online.

[mom2samlibby]

I totally understand wanting to use only Priority but how do you afford it?!  If I add Priority shipping to what I sell - it is almost always $15 and the buyer won't want to purchase my items.

 

OP - I feel for you. The buyer totally jumped the gun on this. I hope it gets delivered and everyone is happy!

 

I paid $12 for the media mail, plus an extra $5.50 for insurance.  On my dime, not to mention the paypal fees.  Priority was going to be well over $20.  If I remember correctly Fed Ex and UPS were between $25 - $30.  At this point, it almost wasn't worth the stress.

 

 But, I guess as a seller, what do you do?  Do you add priority shipping costs on?  Insurance fees?  It gets pricey.

[shanvan]

I stand by "she sounds crazy," despite the chastisement from pp. Well-balanced people do not behave in the manner described by the OP, no matter how much money they've spent or how pregnant they may be. She's behaving irrationally and causing undue stress on someone else because of it.

I have to disagree with the bold.  I've seen normally well-balanced people behave many ways they should not.  I've behaved in ways I should not.  Well-balanced does not equal never does anything wrong.  I still think the buyer is nervous, but yes, now filing a claim with paypal after the emailing is a bit much for the OP to be dealing with.  But, again, she doesn't know the OP and maybe she's been burned by a seller in the past (as I have).  

 

I agree w/ Catwoman, buyer should have shown some grace to the OP, but I can't go as far to call her unbalanced.  I hope the package shows up tomorrow and it will all be settled quickly.

[shanvan]

I paid $12 for the media mail, plus an extra $5.50 for insurance.  On my dime, not to mention the paypal fees.  Priority was going to be well over $20.  If I remember correctly Fed Ex and UPS were between $25 - $30.  At this point, it almost wasn't worth the stress.

 

 But, I guess as a seller, what do you do?  Do you add priority shipping costs on?  Insurance fees?  It gets pricey.

Yes, it gets pricey and I hate to pay the cost of priority, but there really isn't another option, or you end up dealing with a situation like this.  I just end up making a little less on the items (see my post above).  I wonder too, if priority always prevents this sort of problem.  

 

Adding that I never meant to imply you did anything wrong.  You have done everything right.  My post earlier was just to say its hard for buyers when they don't really know the seller.  I've read people on the boards posting that they only buy from well known WTmers so that they have a level of trust.  

 

My neighbor heard the PO clerk giving me her warning about my package being subject to inspection.  She was so irritated for  me, I joked that she was going to start a picket line in front of the PO!  She had a great idea, though.  They need to start inspecting right at the counter and stamping the box inspected.  That will take care of the problem.  As it stands now, I wonder if they are just having a good time messing with packages.

[dirty ethel rackham]

 

My neighbor heard the PO clerk giving me her warning about my package being subject to inspection.  She was so irritated for  me, I joked that she was going to start a picket line in front of the PO!  She had a great idea, though.  They need to start inspecting right at the counter and stamping the box inspected.  That will take care of the problem.  As it stands now, I wonder if they are just having a good time messing with packages.

 

Even when they do inspect it at the post office, the USPS still reserves the right to inspect media mail packages ... and they do.  I had that happen to me as a seller.  Since the product I sold them was not delivered as described (pieces were missing), I had to give her a partial refund.  It would have been cheaper to ship it priority mail.  I do charge extra for shipping (or I build it into the price.)  I don't sell a ton online because it would be a ton of work.  I usually try to sell stuff at local homeschool sales first.  Less effort. 

 

[shanvan]

Even when they do inspect it at the post office, the USPS still reserves the right to inspect media mail packages ... and they do.  I had that happen to me as a seller.  Since the product I sold them was not delivered as described (pieces were missing), I had to give her a partial refund.  It would have been cheaper to ship it priority mail.  I do charge extra for shipping (or I build it into the price.)  I don't sell a ton online because it would be a ton of work.  I usually try to sell stuff at local homeschool sales first.  Less effort. 

 

Her idea is that the box would be stamped with a special stamp and that stamp would mean that the package should not be opened.  

[Mothersweets]

I do not pass on priority costs to the seller and I only use priority if it is a large sale (over $100-150).  I also only purchase insurance on items totaling $50 or more.   I am fully aware that if those smaller items do not arrive paypal will hold me responsible and I will have to refund the money, and I am prepared to do so.  I just eat the extra cost of priority shipping as the cost of doing business online and am grateful to make some $ off my used curriculum.  I rationalize losing out on a bit of the shipping costs as passing on a good deal to a fellow homeschooler.  I'm still getting more for my books than I would locally.  I like to sell my times fast, so I'm willing to make a little less than most sellers.

 

ETA: I think DER means that she asks to pay the extra fee for priority mail so that the seller can ship that way.  I hadn't ever thought of mentioning that as a possibility, but it's not a bad idea.  I've had packages arrive opened and sometimes missing items when they were sent media mail too. 

 

Hmm, maybe I need to adjust my thinking and expect to pay more for shipping. It might be "safer" for me in the long run, knock on wood.

[mom2samlibby]

UPDATE:  Guess paypal decided for me.  They decided in her favor about an hour ago.  Money was refunded.  I had just spoken with paypal earlier today to add my side of the story and then got the email 3 hours later that they had ruled already.