WOW!! Did you see this??? A NY student accepted to ALL 8 Ivies!

[ereks mom]

For some reason, I can't post a link, but google the name "Kwasi Enin" and you'll find it.

[Kathryn]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/03/31/ivy-league-admissions-college-university/7119531/

[ereks mom]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/03/31/ivy-league-admissions-college-university/7119531/

 

How did you get the link to post???  I clicked the link icon and it let me paste the link, but the "Okay" option was grayed out.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm on the iPad. I just clicked on the the address in the address bar, selected all, and copied.

[Barbara H]

He sounds amazing - it is always encouraging to read about young people who are doing so well!

 

Certainly this is statistically unlikely with Ivies having such low admissions rates. But, I think the bigger point for me would be that people understand that while Ivy League schools are all high ranked it is an actually an athletic conference. Ivies aren't all one single kind of school - there are some pretty significant variations in campus culture and academic experience. So, in addition to the low admissions odds one reason why few students would even be in contention for this is that it doesn't usually make sense for students to choose colleges based on whether or not they are in the Ivy League. That said, this guy sounds amazing and it is hard to imagine he won't do very well.

[a27mom]

Why would you apply to all the ivy's. Seems like a waste of application fees. Or it is just a stunt. I mean are there really that many people out there who have to settle for Harvard because they couldn't get into Penn or Columbia?

 

I knew several people who I thought could get into any Ivy they wanted, but I never met anyone who wasted their time and money applying to all of them.

[gingersmom]

So cool!

[umsami]

Good for him. I recently read Tiger Mom's new book....wanted to see if it was as controversial as talked about...and one thing mentioned was that a great majority of African Americans at the Ivys and in investment banking were first generation immigrants...often from Kenya, I think...although he is from Ghana.

[Davysmom]

When I first saw this, I read the title as "ANY student accepted to ALL 8 Ivies! LOL!"

 

[Unicorn.]

Did you notice that he is ranked 11th in his class?  I bet there are 10 kids tonight saying "hey, I  could do that, I'm ranked higher!"  :lol: 

[CTmom]

Did you notice that he is ranked 11th in his class?  I bet there are 10 kids tonight saying "hey, I  could do that, I'm ranked higher!"  :lol:

 

but he also had 10 or 11 AP classes, so his grade could have come down a bit due to all the hard courses that he took. 

 

all in all, he applied to 12 colleges. Do they all have different essays to write or some of them are part of common core? Writing all those essays would have been tedious...

 

very impressive in any case...

[Unicorn.]

but he also had 10 or 11 AP classes, so his grade could have come down a bit due to all the hard courses that he took. 

 

all in all, he applied to 12 colleges. Do they all have different essays to write or some of them are part of common core? Writing all those essays would have been tedious...

 

very impressive in any case...

 

I don't know any kid at that level at ds's high school who isn't taking that many AP classes.  I'm sure it could be different, there, but I doubt it. My girls are freshman, and already taking their first AP class.  That wasn't offered when my son was a freshman.  It's highly competitive out there.   Idk about the ivy league schools, but most other schools have some form of automatic admit, and don't require essays from the top students.. some percentage.. usually top 10%, but sometimes it's less. 

[Crimson Wife]

Did you notice that he is ranked 11th in his class?  I bet there are 10 kids tonight saying "hey, I  could do that, I'm ranked higher!"  :lol:

They're probably wishing that they were in a different admissions pool. That's the sad thing about affirmative action- the guy could be very competitive against the general admissions pool but most people are going to assume he got in only because he's black.

 

Not wanting my qualifications to be questioned is a big reason I turned down Harvard (where I was a legacy) to attend Stanford (where I wasn't).

[KungFuPanda]

You can get the application fees waived.

[Crimson Wife]

So he has a 2250 SAT, which is in the 99th percentile overall and slightly higher than Harvard's median SAT of 2237 for the class of 2017. So yeah, he seems like he'd probably be competitive against the general admissions pool.

[Polgara]

Good for him! I wonder which one he will pick. 

[gardenmom5]

some kids are that desirable to colleges.

 

I recall a young woman 30+ years ago who was the subject of a bidding war between harvard and stanford.  stanford won.  they cinched it when they offered her exclusive use of a stradivarious during her years at the school.

[kubiac]

I knew a girl who applied to 30+ colleges and got the admissions fees waived at almost all of them by writing to the admissions offices and telling them she needed the fees waived because she was applying to 30+ schools. I remember being mildly appalled by the circular argument but in retrospect I admire her hustle.

[Cammie]

Good for him! I wonder which one he will pick. 

 

I saw an interview where he said he was leaning towards Yale but waiting to see the financial aid packages...sounds like a smart kid to me!!

 

The interview also mentioned he was a star athlete (shot put I think) and a pretty amazing singer!  His father is a nurse and he wants to go to medical school.

[Annie G]

The young man's accomplishment of being admitted to all the Ivy schools is impressive.  The New York Times posted the essay he submitted for the common application. I can't link it from my phone, but it's easy to google and find. I wasn't as impressed with it as I thought I would be. I was unimpressed, in fact.  Maybe it's because I was reading it in my phone on my lunch hour...perhaps it reads better while sitting in a luxurious Harvard admissions office.g

[Guest submarines]

The young man's accomplishment of being admitted to all the Ivy schools is impressive.  The New York Times posted the essay he submitted for the common application. I can't link it from my phone, but it's easy to google and find. I wasn't as impressed with it as I thought I would be. I was unimpressed, in fact.  Maybe it's because I was reading it in my phone on my lunch hour...perhaps it reads better while sitting in a luxurious Harvard admissions office.g

 

I was helping a student this year who was at the top of his graduating class in a a very highly regarded high school with international reputation to write his admission essay.

 

The essay he showed me was already looked at by his school writing tutor, and he was told that it was "good."

 

To paraphrase it went something like this, and believe me, even if I free-wrote it right now and cut some of the paragraphs, I'm not exaggerating:

 

>>>I want to study in the University because I've always wanted to live in a big city and this would be a great opportunity to live in the big city and study in such an excellent university. As my extra curricular activities I took violin lessons for a year and I also did baseball which were good experiences for me and I think they will be beneficial for my future goals. I want to study in your excellent university because the university is so well known for its academic excellence and I will be able to have any job I want after I graduate and be well paid which will be an interesting and rewarding experience. <<<

 

It was quite horrifying that the school told him that it was good, and it took me some time to convince him that actually it wasn't good at all--neither his grammar, nor the ideas he was trying to express. What was even more horrifying, that he got accepted into at least one major university (not Yvy league, though) based on the unedited version of that essay. To give him credit, he was at the top of his class, and he didn't get a scholarship, but the essay that was required for admissions was worse than what I wrote above.

 

Kwasi Enin's essay is impressive just because his writing is clean and he knew how to write effectively about his life experiences, rather than saying that he "took music which was beneficial."

 

ETA: I've been thinking about his essay, and what I really don't like is the framing, which looks a like a gimmick--"The wrong decision that I didn't make." Really? But that's the only weakness, and it was probably related to the essay question. And that's me being picky.

 

[WishboneDawn]

Why would you apply to all the ivy's. Seems like a waste of application fees. Or it is just a stunt. I mean are there really that many people out there who have to settle for Harvard because they couldn't get into Penn or Columbia?

 

I knew several people who I thought could get into any Ivy they wanted, but I never met anyone who wasted their time and money applying to all of them.

He applied to the because it WASN'T a waste.

 

It WAS a gamble but one he won. Now he has all the Ivy league schools competing against each other for him (especially since its now in the media) and will likely get an absolutely wonderful deal at whichever school he picks.

 

He dreamed big and it paid off. Well played young man, well played. :)

[WishboneDawn]

They're probably wishing that they were in a different admissions pool. That's the sad thing about affirmative action- the guy could be very competitive against the general admissions pool but most people are going to assume he got in only because he's black.

 

Not wanting my qualifications to be questioned is a big reason I turned down Harvard (where I was a legacy) to attend Stanford (where I wasn't).

It's already happened. Reddit was full of that kind of assumption. But I think it's pretty clear that this kids deserved it. He had great SAT scores, AP classes, was accomplished at the violin, kept of an active life outside of all that...He sounds like a great kids who would do well wherever he went. What school wouldn't want that?

[plansrme]

Okay, fine, I'm going to say what I've been wanting to say:  I hope the schools have the good sense to be embarrassed about their collective lust over this candidate because he is a black man.  My white daughter has stats as good as or better than these (higher SAT; more APs--5s all around; a star athlete at a real, year-around sport, not shot-put!; long-term volunteer work), and there is no way under the sun that she would get into every one of these schools.  One or two?  Maybe.  Three?  An incredible long shot but not entirely out of the realm of possibility.  But never, in a billion years, would she get into all 8.  And neither would any other white or Asian student, or even any other black woman, on the planet.  Anyone who thinks he got into all of these schools because of his solid test scores and resume needs to spend some time researching what it takes to get into super-selective colleges these days.  Ninety-nine percent of the applicants to Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc., have applications that are indistinguishable from this young man's except for race and gender.  Ninety-five percent of those applications are turned down, and this kid gets into all of them. 

 

I am not saying affirmative action is right or wrong--that's a whole 'nuther thread, and this kid sounds awesome, like someone I would want my kids to be friends with (heck, if he's not dating anyone, he and my daughter would probably be really cute together), but the fact that he got into every single one of these schools is practically an Onion article. 

 

 

[Mrs_JWM]

AND SUNY Geneseo - how sweet! :)

[poppy]

It's already happened. Reddit was full of that kind of assumption. But I think it's pretty clear that this kids deserved it. He had great SAT scores, AP classes, was accomplished at the violin, kept of an active life outside of all that...He sounds like a great kids who would do well wherever he went. What school wouldn't want that?

 

Reddit is a nasty place, really.

[Shellie]

I just wish I had that much drive! I read things like these and think I turned down AP classes in high school because I couldn't be bothered to do the work! I pray I'm raising my kids to be more driven, like this kid.

[poppy]

So let's play which one would you pick!!

 

Obviously it depends based on his interests, but assuming a not-sure-yet 18 year old.....  my rankings are:

1. Brown - great mix of quirk and accomplishment

2. Harvard - same as above, but I like Providence more than Cambridge

3. Yale- Hillary Clinton & George Bush and every other distinguished politician

4. Columbia - I don't know anything about Columbia undergrad so I'll put it in the middle

5. Princeton - it looks like Hogwarts!

6. Penn - the angstiest choice

7. Cornell - Because Ithaca

8. Dartmouth - Redditors

 

[WishboneDawn]

Okay, fine, I'm going to say what I've been wanting to say:  I hope the schools have the good sense to be embarrassed about their collective lust over this candidate because he is a black man.  My white daughter has stats as good as or better than these (higher SAT; more APs--5s all around; a star athlete at a real, year-around sport, not shot-put!; long-term volunteer work), and there is no way under the sun that she would get into every one of these schools.  One or two?  Maybe.  Three?  An incredible long shot but not entirely out of the realm of possibility.  But never, in a billion years, would she get into all 8.  And neither would any other white or Asian student, or even any other black woman, on the planet.  Anyone who thinks he got into all of these schools because of his solid test scores and resume needs to spend some time researching what it takes to get into super-selective colleges these days.  Ninety-nine percent of the applicants to Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc., have applications that are indistinguishable from this young man's except for race and gender.  Ninety-five percent of those applications are turned down, and this kid gets into all of them. 

 

I am not saying affirmative action is right or wrong--that's a whole 'nuther thread, and this kid sounds awesome, like someone I would want my kids to be friends with (heck, if he's not dating anyone, he and my daughter would probably be really cute together), but the fact that he got into every single one of these schools is practically an Onion article. 

 

First off, this likely has absolutely nothing to do with affirmative action. Affirmative action is a different kettle of fish where schools might set quotas or relax certain expectations of students from certain groups in order to offer more opportunity to traditionally disadvantaged kids. If you think it does have something to do with it, please support that claim.

 

Just because he has dark skin does not mean affirmative action has anything to do with this. It's extremely unfair to assume that, simply because he's black, it does. 

 

That said, his ethinicity may well have played a role because most good schools are interested in creating a diverse student body to enrich the educational environment. The more diverse a student body the more opportunity for interesting and innovative thought and discussion. It's why homeschoolers are so attractive to some schools. A homeschooler might well be more attractive to a university then a public or private schooled student who's more accomplished academically because his/her experience will be somewhat unique on campus and add to the diversity the school is looking for. Same thing with the child of first generation immigrants. He will likely have some really interesting experiences and perspectives to share because of that. 

 

When a school has thousands of accomplished, intelligent applications it will be the little differences that stand out. When there are stacks of kids with accomplishments similar to this boy's, yes, it may well be his ethnicity that stands out and makes the difference but that's not affirmative action and it's not unfair. 

 

I don't get it. There's an impressive kid who's done very well and by every measure is more then qualified to attend any of those schools yet because of his skin colour people are getting upset? What in the heck does a black kid have to do to prove he's worthy of being accepted to those institutions???

[WishboneDawn]

So let's play which one would you pick!!

 

Obviously it depends based on his interests, but assuming a not-sure-yet 18 year old.....  my rankings are:

1. Brown - great mix of quirk and accomplishment

2. Harvard - same as above, but I like Providence more than Cambridge

3. Yale- Hillary Clinton & George Bush and every other distinguished politician

4. Columbia - I don't know anything about Columbia undergrad so I'll put it in the middle

5. Princeton - it looks like Hogwarts!

6. Penn - the angstiest choice

7. Cornell - Because Ithaca

8. Dartmouth - Redditors

 

Brown. It's like the nerd in the chess club that's got an insanely cute smile and a secret passion for jazz.

 

Dartmouth is like the guy in khakis and loafers with the plastic smile and wandering hands.

[runbikeswim]

Why would you apply to all the ivy's. Seems like a waste of application fees. Or it is just a stunt. I mean are there really that many people out there who have to settle for Harvard because they couldn't get into Penn or Columbia?

 

I knew several people who I thought could get into any Ivy they wanted, but I never met anyone who wasted their time and money applying to all of them.

Maybe he really wanted to attend an Ivy and figured by applying to all of them, he might be lucky and be accepted at one or two. I'm sure he never dreamed he'd be accepted to all 8.

[wapiti]

I knew several people who I thought could get into any Ivy they wanted

 

With acceptance rates in the single-digit percents and most applicants having scores within the top two percentiles, Ivy League schools are not a sure bet for anyone.

 

One needs a hook.  This particular student had a hook that apparently played well this year.  Eta, I haven't read enough about the guy to know whether he had an additional hook on top of his ethnicity.

[plansrme]

First off, this likely has absolutely nothing to do with affirmative action. Affirmative action is a different kettle of fish where schools might set quotas or relax certain expectations of students from certain groups in order to offer more opportunity to traditionally disadvantaged kids. If you think it does have something to do with it, please support that claim.

 

Just because he has dark skin does not mean affirmative action has anything to do with this. It's extremely unfair to assume that, simply because he's black, it does. 

 

That said, his ethinicity may well have played a role because most good schools are interested in creating a diverse student body to enrich the educational environment. The more diverse a student body the more opportunity for interesting and innovative thought and discussion. It's why homeschoolers are so attractive to some schools. A homeschooler might well be more attractive to a university then a public or private schooled student who's more accomplished academically because his/her experience will be somewhat unique on campus and add to the diversity the school is looking for. Same thing with the child of first generation immigrants. He will likely have some really interesting experiences and perspectives to share because of that. 

 

When a school has thousands of accomplished, intelligent applications it will be the little differences that stand out. When there are stacks of kids with accomplishments similar to this boy's, yes, it may well be his ethnicity that stands out and makes the difference but that's not affirmative action and it's not unfair. 

 

I don't get it. There's an impressive kid who's done very well and by every measure is more then qualified to attend any of those schools yet because of his skin colour people are getting upset? What in the heck does a black kid have to do to prove he's worthy of being accepted to those institutions???

 

I didn't say it had anything to do with affirmative action--see my reference to that's being a whole 'nuther thread.  Nor did I express (as I do not feel) any anger or animosity towards this kid or the schools themselves.  No one on this thread is upset; no one has even implied that he is unworthy of being accepted by these schools.  But (1) many, many students are equally worthy other than not being black men and do not get accepted by any of these schools, much less all eight; and (2) the fact is, and even you seem to admit, that his skin color had something, a lot of something if you pay attention to the odds, to do with this extraordinary occurrence.  This is not a commentary on the rightness or wrongness, just an observation that a factor over which he had no control had a lot to do with his getting into these schools. 

[umsami]

Cornell/Ithaca is breathtakingly beautiful.  But you don't have the fun of a big city like Boston, NYC, or Philadelphia.  Princeton has a lovely campus too…but ugh…I hate NJ jug handles or whatever they call the weird turning thing.

 

Yale…New Haven...meh.

 

Knew two great people who went to Dartmouth…and loved it.

 

It's sad. Because he's black, people will always assume he was not qualified…or got in because of being black.  I've heard it whispered about colleagues when I worked at Fortune 50 companies, and DH heard it whispered about fellow residents when he was in med school.  You're always assumed to not measure up…which is a horrible burden and sucks.  

 

I've heard this from relatives about Pres. Obama and Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor (one who graduated magna, the other summa).  About the only minority in the public eye I can't remember hearing it about is Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson. Sigh.  Oh…and Clarence Thomas…and Dr. Ben Carsen. I think if you're a conservative, then you're judged to have been smart enough to not need AA.

 

 

[J-rap]

Why would you apply to all the ivy's. Seems like a waste of application fees. Or it is just a stunt. I mean are there really that many people out there who have to settle for Harvard because they couldn't get into Penn or Columbia?

 

I knew several people who I thought could get into any Ivy they wanted, but I never met anyone who wasted their time and money applying to all of them.

 

I wondered this at first too, until I remembered that my daughter applied at every private liberal arts college in our nearby metropolitan area (and there are a lot!) in the hopes that should be accepted into just one.

 

 

 

[poppy]

I didn't say it had anything to do with affirmative action--see my reference to that's being a whole 'nuther thread. Nor did I express (as I do not feel) any anger or animosity towards this kid or the schools themselves. No one on this thread is upset; no one has even implied that he is unworthy of being accepted by these schools. But (1) many, many students are equally worthy other than not being black men and do not get accepted by any of these schools, much less all eight; and (2) the fact is, and even you seem to admit, that his skin color had something, a lot of something if you pay attention to the odds, to do with this extraordinary occurrence. This is not a commentary on the rightness or wrongness, just an observation that a factor over which he had no control had a lot to do with his getting into these schools.

I think there are several criteria which either favor or do not favor candidates based on race or nationality. Whites are unquestionably favored over Asians in terms of admissions . Lucky white people. *shrug*

 

I read somewhere that Clarence Thomas has his ivy degree (I think Yale?) hanging on his wall with a sign : Value 25 cents. He thinks race based criteria made people assume his degree is worthless, and he is adamantly opposed to such programs. To which I say, first, anyone who graduates from such a challenging program deserves respect. Second , stop whining Mr. Supreme Court Justice. Your education and hard work paid off handsomely.

[MistyMountain]

So let's play which one would you pick!!

 

Obviously it depends based on his interests, but assuming a not-sure-yet 18 year old.....  my rankings are:

1. Brown - great mix of quirk and accomplishment

2. Harvard - same as above, but I like Providence more than Cambridge

3. Yale- Hillary Clinton & George Bush and every other distinguished politician

4. Columbia - I don't know anything about Columbia undergrad so I'll put it in the middle

5. Princeton - it looks like Hogwarts!

6. Penn - the angstiest choice

7. Cornell - Because Ithaca

8. Dartmouth - Redditors

 

 

I would pick Cornell because I love Ithaca NY and because they have a  top rated good Grad program in something I was considering. Princeton would be the one I would chose last because I grew up in NJ. I want to be closer to my family but I couldn't do NJ again.

 

[Crimson Wife]

When a school has thousands of accomplished, intelligent applications it will be the little differences that stand out. When there are stacks of kids with accomplishments similar to this boy's, yes, it may well be his ethnicity that stands out and makes the difference but that's not affirmative action and it's not unfair. 

 

I don't get it. There's an impressive kid who's done very well and by every measure is more then qualified to attend any of those schools yet because of his skin colour people are getting upset? What in the heck does a black kid have to do to prove he's worthy of being accepted to those institutions???

This particular young gentlemen appears to have stats that are competitive against the general Harvard admissions pool. 2250 SAT is above the median for all students in Harvard's class of 2017. 11th in his class means that his GPA is high as well, plus his extracurriculars sound strong.

 

That said, Harvard absolutely has different standards for different demographic groups. Here are the median SAT scores by group:

 

Indian (South Asian): 2299

Asian (presumably East Asian): 2299

White: 2233

Pacific Islander: 2191

Hispanic or Latino: 2167

American Indian or Alaskan Native: 2142

Black or African-American: 2107

 

There's a nearly 200 point spread between the median of the highest-scoring groups, and the lowest-scoring group. A score that is acceptable for a student of one demographic group would mean a rejection for that same student if he/she were a different race/ethnicity. That's what's unfair and why many people make the assumption (which may be totally wrong) that the student only got in because of race/ethnicity rather than individual merit.

 

Source is here (click on the tab that says SAT by ethnicity): http://features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/admissions.html

[creekland]

I have no doubt that this young man got into all eight due to his hooks (first gen, ethnicity, etc).  I don't think anyone doubts that to be honest.  It would be similar for anyone else with impressive hooks (President's offspring, etc).

 

But I feel for him (and others with well-known hooks) as he will never be "judged" for who he is as if he didn't have them.

 

I suspect he'd rather drop the hooks and take fewer acceptances (perhaps none even - as great kids do get shut out, esp if 11th in their class), if he had his choice.

 

He doesn't have a choice.  I'm happy he has a chance.  I wish him well.

[VinNY]

I have former homeschool friends who go to school with the boy. He is well loved and anyone who knows him know it is a well earned and well deserved accomplishment. His parents are both nurses that esteem education. They came from Ghana and have a strong work ethic. They live in a  working class neighborhood and the school district is considered high needs (free lunch and get a lot of state aid). The school district is large and there is a lot of low income, poverty and a bad element in the area so when he says he had helicopter parents, he did. 

[Trish]

Okay, fine, I'm going to say what I've been wanting to say:  I hope the schools have the good sense to be embarrassed about their collective lust over this candidate because he is a black man.  My white daughter has stats as good as or better than these (higher SAT; more APs--5s all around; a star athlete at a real, year-around sport, not shot-put!; long-term volunteer work), and there is no way under the sun that she would get into every one of these schools.  One or two?  Maybe.  Three?  An incredible long shot but not entirely out of the realm of possibility.  But never, in a billion years, would she get into all 8.  And neither would any other white or Asian student, or even any other black woman, on the planet.  Anyone who thinks he got into all of these schools because of his solid test scores and resume needs to spend some time researching what it takes to get into super-selective colleges these days.  Ninety-nine percent of the applicants to Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc., have applications that are indistinguishable from this young man's except for race and gender.  Ninety-five percent of those applications are turned down, and this kid gets into all of them. 

 

I am not saying affirmative action is right or wrong--that's a whole 'nuther thread, and this kid sounds awesome, like someone I would want my kids to be friends with (heck, if he's not dating anyone, he and my daughter would probably be really cute together), but the fact that he got into every single one of these schools is practically an Onion article. 

 

Shoot, if I were an admissions person, I'd accept him to my school even though he hadn't applied. You know, try to rope him in!

 

I recently read an article on Ivy League hiring practices over the last 80 years or so. It used to be Jewish people who were discriminated against (fewer accepted than their qualifications as a group warranted). That ended up changing in later years.

 

Now the largest group discriminated against is NOT Caucasian. It's BY FAR anyone who is Asian. On the whole this group is highly qualified, and while the number of Asians in the US has gone way up, the number accepted by most ivies has actually gone DOWN. So, in addition to cultural factors that cause many of this group to be hyper-focused on academic excellence, there is also this inherent discrimination to deal with.

 

Anyway, good for this kid!

 

 

 

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

Now the largest group discriminated against is NOT Caucasian. It's BY FAR anyone who is Asian. On the whole this group is highly qualified, and while the number of Asians in the US has gone way up, the number accepted by most ivies has actually gone DOWN. So, in addition to cultural factors that cause many of this group to be hyper-focused on academic excellence, there is also this inherent discrimination to deal with.

Yep. UC Berkeley is not allowed by law to take race/ethnicity into consideration, and it's now 49% Asian. The overall makeup of California high school graduates is 14% Asian. Caltech doesn't have affirmative action either, and it's 43% Asian.

 

Private colleges can run their admissions however they choose IMHO. I may or may not think it's fair, but it's their school and I support their right to run it however they like. What I do have a problem with is taxpayer-funded colleges discriminating on the basis of race/ethnicity.

[poppy]

I don't know how a thread about an incredibly accomplished young man turned into a thread about his race. And about the injustice of college admissions that favors students of color. Because a 125 point average difference on a standardized test isn't the deciding factor(?).   On a homeschooling forum.  Just bizarre.

[quelle.que.soit]

Anybody having anything negative to say about that boy just looks like jealousy.  It really is not that he is black, but more so that he is first generation American, which could be any colour really.

Also, the reason for the test scores being what they are is to have variety in the student population.  Asia (including India) has a massive population, which means a massive number of students applying with higher test scores.  They cannot have the schools ending up only Asian when they admit only by who has the highest test scores.  Especially in graduate school, Harvard gets more flexible on different things to try to have the biggest variety of students possible, including taking into consideration your political views.  They want students who look at things differently because it improves the discussions & debates that are an important part of the learning environment.
 

So let's play which one would you pick!!

 

Obviously it depends based on his interests, but assuming a not-sure-yet 18 year old.....  my rankings are:

1. Brown - great mix of quirk and accomplishment

2. Harvard - same as above, but I like Providence more than Cambridge

3. Yale- Hillary Clinton & George Bush and every other distinguished politician

4. Columbia - I don't know anything about Columbia undergrad so I'll put it in the middle

5. Princeton - it looks like Hogwarts!

6. Penn - the angstiest choice

7. Cornell - Because Ithaca

8. Dartmouth - Redditors

 

Princeton is forcing vaccines now.

Philthy is not the town for me.

Dartmouth...  I just can't say anything nice about the alumni I have known, so it is better not to say anything at all.  (I am sure there are some great Dartmouth people out there I have never known.)  I actually like Hanover, though.

Having been to both Harvard and Yale, I would pick Brown first, Cornell second and Columbia last.
 

[eternalsummer]

The reason Asians have higher SAT scores is not because there are more Asians.  They have higher *average* SAT scores.

[Trish]

I don't know how a thread about an incredibly accomplished young man turned into a thread about his race. And about the injustice of college admissions that favors students of color. Because a 125 point average difference on a standardized test isn't the deciding factor(?).   On a homeschooling forum.  Just bizarre.

 

He deserved every acceptance he got. I certainly didn't say that he got in all those ivies BECAUSE of his race. Only that it would make him an EXTREMELY attractive candidate to any school. You don't see candidates like him every day.

 

I did feel sorry for the Asians as a group. I wasn't aware that they had a much tougher time getting into the ivies due to their ethnic background.

 

And no, at schools like this I don't think scores are the deciding factor. I think they look at the whole candidate. Again, he excelled in many areas beyond his scores, but those were obviously stellar also.

[eternalsummer]

So he has a 2250 SAT, which is in the 99th percentile overall and slightly higher than Harvard's median SAT of 2237 for the class of 2017. So yeah, he seems like he'd probably be competitive against the general admissions pool.

 

But the median SAT scores for schools that have affirmative action are not accurate representations of what median scores would be without affirmative action.

 

That is to say, if he got in (and by the numbers it seems pretty obvious that he did) partially because of his race; you can't say that his SAT scores would be competitive even if race weren't considered - because if race weren't considered, and students were accepted race-blind, the average SAT score would rise, right?  That's the whole point of affirmative action, to allow in students that are not qualified according to merit (as the school defines merit - generally grades, rigorous courses, SAT scores, etc.) to meet quotas for racial diversity.

[Catherine]

There is a boy from my son's school who got into 6 ivies, plus multiple other super-competitive schools.  He is also African-American.  I know nothing about his parents, except that they did not attend college. 

 

I sincerely hope "our" high achiever is not perceived as undeserving.  In addition to acing multiple APs, he did an independent research project on chronic non-progressors with HIV, won the regional science competition and is going to the Intel in May.  I really do not see him as the equivalent of lots of other kids-regardless of his scores, which, since he is African-American and from an uneducated family (not to mention a poverty plagued school district), statistically,may be lower than white or Asian students.  Test scores are not the only measure of capability.  Anyone else know a college dropout with impressive test scores?  Because I certainly do. 

 

In this situation, I can honestly say that I think our student got what is typical of kids in his situation-the top students in the school go to Ivies, MIT, Stanford, every year.  Usually though, they are kids who are from middle-class families.  He is not and I think that his drive and passion have been rightly recognized. 

 

[poppy]

But the median SAT scores for schools that have affirmative action are not accurate representations of what median scores would be without affirmative action.

 

That is to say, if he got in (and by the numbers it seems pretty obvious that he did) partially because of his race; you can't say that his SAT scores would be competitive even if race weren't considered - because if race weren't considered, and students were accepted race-blind, the average SAT score would rise, right?  That's the whole point of affirmative action, to allow in students that are not qualified according to merit (as the school defines merit - generally grades, rigorous courses, SAT scores, etc.) to meet quotas for racial diversity.

 

You should probably Google Affirmative Action and quotas to understand the issues at play here, because neither one has anything to do with college admissions.

 

I would respond to the rest, but, I really do think you're in a very tiny minority who only sees this kid for his color, not his accomplishment.

[wapiti]

But the median SAT scores for schools that have affirmative action are not accurate representations of what median scores would be without affirmative action.

 

That is to say, if he got in (and by the numbers it seems pretty obvious that he did) partially because of his race; you can't say that his SAT scores would be competitive even if race weren't considered - because if race weren't considered, and students were accepted race-blind, the average SAT score would rise, right?  That's the whole point of affirmative action, to allow in students that are not qualified according to merit (as the school defines merit - generally grades, rigorous courses, SAT scores, etc.) to meet quotas for racial diversity.

 

No.  It is clear that his SAT scores would be competitive even if race were not considered because his score is higher than the median score for whites listed in CW's post.  Only the Indian and Asian median scores are higher.  Remember that a median is not a floor but a middle.  The low end of the score range - even for Asian and Indian applicants - would likely be less than 2250 (I'm not hunting down the stats right now - not sure whether that's available).

 

However, students are not accepted on the basis of scores alone.  Many many qualified students, even students with perfect scores, are often rejected, because within the top percentile or two as is the case with most applicants to these schools, score differences aren't particularly illuminating.  To go from the "qualified" pile to the "yes" pile often involves having a "hook," i.e., an aspect that makes a student an especially interesting addition to the class.  My understanding, from a friend who has interviewed Harvard applicants locally, is that pull-oneself-up-by-the-bootstrap economic diversity, whether or not combined with an underrepresented ethnicity, can be a huge hook.

 

IMO, there is a difference between a hook and affirmative action.  In this particular case, the student had a hook.