Laura Corin Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Hobbes is much more demonstrative than anyone else in the family. He's mostly a happy kid, but when he's not, he tells us all about it again and again. As an example: yesterday I heard him groan (a literal groan), so asked him what the matter was. He said that he was feeling bad because he hadn't done as much Chinese work as he should have before his lesson. I agreed that that wasn't a good feeling. I then asked him if he could think of any ways to fit his Chinese work more reliably into his week. We talked about it for maybe 30 seconds and came to a tentative conclusion, then each went on with our days. A couple of minutes later, he groaned again. I asked what was the matter. He said that it was about the Chinese. I just said, 'Oh, okay.' He groaned about four more times on the way to his lesson - I ignored the later groans. He's on holiday from school this week, so he's not overtired or stressed. At another time, he'll tell me about something that isn't going well - for example that his knee is hurting. We'll talk about it and come to a conclusion about what to do. Then ten minutes later, he'll tell me again that it's hurting. And again. And again. He is a chatty soul, but he doesn't repeat the good stuff like this, just the bad. Yesterday I told him the one groan/complaint was enough, unless there was something new to say. I'm afraid he is just in a habit of whining that won't serve him well. He is so very different from me, however, that I don't know whether I should be shutting him down like this, or whether I should let him express his difficulties. Maybe the groans are how he deals with things. Any thoughts? Many thanks L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Um, I'm a groaner, moaner, sigher, exasperated noise maker....It just makes me feel better. I don't expect anyone to comment. Maybe he doesn't either. Of course, I have entire conversations aloud with myself. Some of us just process that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Thanks Joy and Sparkly. Those of you who groan - do you avoid doing it in public? Should I teach him that there's a time and a place, so perhaps not at school/work? I've never worked with anyone who groaned, but that might just be chance. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I do try to behave maturely in public. Heaven help those in my car though, LOL. I do tend to keep it to home and try to make it a joke as Sparkly said. I am generally the type of person who leaves no thought unspoken though. My poor family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Those of you who groan, do you also say, 'My knee hurts'......'My knee hurts'..... 'My knee hurts'.... L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I wonder if he just is wanting sympathy from you, and so he keeps saying it over and over. Or maybe he's just looking to connect with you, and those things are the first things that come to mind. I have one child who told me once, "Mommy, sometimes I want to say something but I forget what, so I just say 'I love you'." I think he just wanted the connection. I would tell Hobbes that you're sorry/that's lousy/whatever -- give him the sympathy -- once, maybe twice, and then ignore it. I think you did well with the Chinese thing, by helping him brainstorm a solution. He may just be one of those kids who needs to acknowledge that something is lousy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Help! Tigger (7) is terrible with the complaining, moaning, groaning, and growling in anger or frustration, plus doing various ugly faces with it. This is when is he isn't outright yelling or storming off. The Feingold diet seems to be reducing the rage and violet outbursts, but the endless nasty noises are driving DH and I insane. We're trying to teach him he doesn't need to verbally express every single moment of irritation, but it isn't getting through. Just getting through math alone may bring 10-30 different snarly sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaConquest Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Those of you who groan, do you also say, 'My knee hurts'......'My knee hurts'..... 'My knee hurts'.... L I probably do say that my back hurts a couple times per day. I don't really expect anyone to do anything about it other than perhaps commiserate. There probably is some psychological payoff I get from complaining -- attention or what not -- but mostly I just think it's personality. Some people are just half empty and prone to groaning, anxiety, etc. Sadly, I've always just been this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 He sound like he extroverts his feelings. I imagine that finding a thoughtful solution to the problem still doesn't erase the negative feelings he has associated with it. That's a harder issue to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I'm another groaner and it has taken me YEARS to understand that it's okay and useful to moan and groan some, but that people around you need to understand that you're letting off steam and not expecting them to "fix" it or internalize your bad feelings at all. I wish that was something I got sooner because it would have saved me a lot of tension with people. I think it was something that I didn't fully understand about myself when I was young either. So yes, if you think he's just a letting off steam complainer, then frame it for him this way, help him see it, and help him see how it effects others around him. Of course, it could also be a plea for attention, which is a little different. ETA: And I have had to recognize the opposite in my kids - one of my boys moans and groans, but then he gets into a negativity spiral. He needs to externalize and say good thoughts in order to get out of it. "I can do," and other little mantras. So that's another possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfknitter.# Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I'm another groaner and it has taken me YEARS to understand that it's okay and useful to moan and groan some, but that people around you need to understand that you're letting off steam and not expecting them to "fix" it or internalize your bad feelings at all. I wish that was something I got sooner because it would have saved me a lot of tension with people. I think it was something that I didn't fully understand about myself when I was young either. So yes, if you think he's just a letting off steam complainer, then frame it for him this way, help him see it, and help him see how it effects others around him. Of course, it could also be a plea for attention, which is a little different. ETA: And I have had to recognize the opposite in my kids - one of my boys moans and groans, but then he gets into a negativity spiral. He needs to externalize and say good thoughts in order to get out of it. "I can do," and other little mantras. So that's another possibility. Complainer. I completely relate to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabinfl Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Those of you who groan - do you avoid doing it in public? Should I teach him that there's a time and a place, so perhaps not at school/work? I've never worked with anyone who groaned, but that might just be chance. I groan, whine, complain, and cry. I do most of it in private... except, as Sparkly mentioned, when it comes to my kids who can push my buttons in a split-second. I still manage to keep my cool in public, but at home they sometimes get the best of me. When that happens, I send us all to our rooms. When it's just a kid (or 2 or 3) whining, I direct them to their rooms for that sort of behavior. Loud displays of emotion are certainly allowed, as I believe it's a healthy thing, but not in a place where it's disturbing the rest of the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Yesterday I told him the one groan/complaint was enough, unless there was something new to say. I'm afraid he is just in a habit of whining that won't serve him well. He is so very different from me, however, that I don't know whether I should be shutting him down like this, or whether I should let him express his difficulties. Maybe the groans are how he deals with things. I would come at it from a different perspective than asking him what's wrong when he moans and groans. I would ignore the groaning and moaning and tell him that if he has something to discuss, he may come to me in a non-irritating way. If he just wants to moan and groan, he can do it out of earshot of the rest of the family. My dd19 was that way; instead of being straightforward about what was bothering her, she would mope and sigh around. I told her repeatedly that it was unattractive and irritating to those around her and that I wasn't going to play into it. Eventually she started coming to me and saying, "Can we talk?" Then I always made time for her. Even if moaning and groaning is Hobbes' way of dealing with things, he's certainly old enough to realize that it is an unattractive personality trait and unpleasant for those around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I don't know about kids, but my dh works with people who he calls "whiners." He can't stand them. He goes, "We all have parts to our lives and jobs that we hate. Griping about it just brings down everyone around us." So FWIW, that's a supervisor's position on groaning, moaning and complaining. (he works for the government, so there's always plenty to gripe about." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 DD is a moaner. I'm learning to ignore and let her get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Those of you who groan, do you also say, 'My knee hurts'......'My knee hurts'..... 'My knee hurts'.... L I'm generally not a groaner, neither is my son. It just wasn't tolerated in my family when I was growing up. With my son, I addressed physical complaints by checking things out briefly and if there wasn't anything emergent, I would say "If it still hurts/bothers you/feels that way in thirty minutes, let me know." Maybe something like that would help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfknitter.# Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 ETA: And I have had to recognize the opposite in my kids - one of my boys moans and groans, but then he gets into a negativity spiral. He needs to externalize and say good thoughts in order to get out of it. "I can do," and other little mantras. So that's another possibility. You seem to have my son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I'm surprised at how many groaners in this thread have said it's something they learned to accept about themselves or that it helps them feel better. DH and I get dragged down by endless moaning, groaning, and complaining from people. I agree with TaraTheLiberator that it is an unattractive personality trait that can ruin the days of other people. ETA: I tell Tigger he doesn't have to enjoy doing his school work or chores or fake being happy, but that expressing every negative thought instantly is unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfknitter.# Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I wonder if the groaners/complainers vs. those who are not also tend to lean more toward being introverts... eta: fingers not as fast as brain. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I wonder if the groners/complainers vs. those who are not also tend to lend more to being introverts... I'm not a groaner, nor am I an introvert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfknitter.# Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I'm a groaner AND an introvert. Me too. That's what got me wondering. See we are conducting a scientific study for you. :p My work here is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnIslandGirl Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 We've been know to say "Fake it 'till you make it." to anyone complaining here. It's amazing how forcing yourself to smile for more than 15 seconds really does improve ones outlook (at least at our house). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 We've been know to say "Fake it 'till you make it." to anyone complaining here. That's pretty much how we had to train our dd (adopted as a pre-teen from an orphanage) to approach life. Her natural disposition is cranky and rude. "Fake it till you make it" is a mantra around here. Don't feel like being pleasant to your brother? Fake it till you make it. Don't feel like answering in a polite voice? Fake it till you make it. Don't feel like showing any respect to your parents? Fake it till you make it. After multiple years of this training, dd is now a reasonable pleasant human being. I am an introvert, and I am not a groaner. I am a stewer, but I simmer in silence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Laura, I think that teaching a child who is like this, gently, is important. I think those of us who do not vocalize our complaints frequently know already what I think you are sensing: that learning to quit vocalizing each negative thought as it occurs is a good thing. To that end, I've coached my negative Nellies to vocalize, if necessary, out of earshot, and to always come to me if they needed to talk, or needed anything. Of course, I find none of my male children are emotional talkers. Just emotional groaners! But time has done much to help them control their public professions of discontent. I also take the occasional opportunity to point out how aggravating it is to work with negative, complaining, and even entitled people. I'm not suggesting that is the case with Hobbes, but only that there are long term benefits to teaching a child to control this behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Why are you surprised? I am surprised because what I am thinking of as "moaning and groaning" is extremely unpleasant to be around. When Tigger is making his growling, snarly, exasperated noises, he usually does them while looking at us. He looks and sounds like he's barely containing his irritation and anger about having to do school or chores. Listening to this over and over for day after day drives me up a wall. Perhaps this is different than what some of you mean by "moaning and groaning." Maybe most of you mean muttering to yourself that the "stupid printer is jammed again" and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Another thing about the endless complaining (verbally or with noises) is that if a person does it all the time, how will people know when something is really a problem? It's like the boy who cried wolf. If your MIL always keeps her mouth shut about your parenting and then one day says something, you might be more prone to take her opinion seriously than if she constantly tells you all the ways you mess up. You will either avoid her or tune out her opinion on the matter. I think it's the same with the complainypants (name courtesy of Mr. Money Moustache). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saraha Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I do try to behave maturely in public. Heaven help those in my car though, LOL. I do tend to keep it to home and try to make it a joke as Sparkly said. I am generally the type of person who leaves no thought unspoken though. My poor family. I know, I am just like this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostSurprise Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 DS1 is a very negative person so I've had a lot of experience with this. I swear his favorite words are 'you know what I hate?' It's important for me to help him figure out proper boundaries for sharing. *If it's not directed at me, I can ignore it. *If it's too loud, I'll redirect it, as I would any too-loud emotion in a public space. *If it's directed at me, I'll listen sympathetically. I'll use mirroring techniques to show him I'm listening. *If he repeats again, I'll allow it for emphasis. If he repeats it a second time I'll go more into analyzing and problems solving to help him. *The third time I redirect his negative emotions. "That's the third time. I like hearing your thoughts and feelings, and I sympathize, but now you're repetitive. Perhaps you could (take a run, hit the punching bag, journal, do his next job/chore/homework) since this is still bothering you so much. Obviously I'm not giving you whatever you need from sharing this information. You should figure out what is next to get these feelings out. It's also polite to say, "I just can't handle that much negativity right now. It's been a tough day for me. Would you mind taking it somewhere else, and we can talk about it later when I am able to listen to you better?" or "I'm sorry you're annoyed but that's bothering me right now and I need to concentrate, would you mind taking that noise into the other room?" People should be able to express negative feelings, but they should also understand what is allowable with other people. Always being around someone who's negative, or someone who's dramatically negative can be difficult for everyone else. It can disrupt the flow of everything around them. Express. Share. Learn techniques to help you cope. Balance your needs with the needs of those around you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Smith Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 When he is home he'll often yell out, "What the hell? No one here is really a complained (except maybe Youngest how has to point out the instant he is bored.) But the "What the hell?" sounds familliar. When Dh is on call and gets a call in the middle of the night the phone will ring loudly then he will immediately yell, "What the Hell" turn on the lights for about one second answer the phone and turn them off again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I've gotten more and more like Eeyore the older I get. My poor ds is definitely an Eeyore. I think it's mostly just directed towards ourselves, though. When I complain about my back, I don't expect anything to be done. It's just nice to say it out loud. KWIM? I'm not sure where to go about limits, though. Could he have a journal to write things down in that bother him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Hmm, I am definitely an extrovert. I don't feel like a downer. I'm an energetic type. Not whining about the unsolveable either. MOre like expressing everything that enters my head "Wow, balancing the checkbook was hard. I'm really tired. Guess I shouldn't stay up so late reading. Geesh, think I'd know better. Reading anything good lately"....and on and on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaConquest Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Definitely an introverted groaner here. I used to keep it locked up, but my therapist encouraged me to "feel my feelings." I've probably swung too far in the opposite direction now. I think a happy medium is probably best, but shutting in one's feelings just because it may make some others uncomfortable doesn't sound healthy either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 You seem to have my son. I would like this, but clearly that's tough sometimes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I'm not saying everyone should keep everything bottled up inside. I've seen that. We were at a church for five years where nobody ever sad anything bad about their kids. It was always, "Kids are such a blessing." I had a hard time dealing with becoming a mom (my first was a difficult baby) and it was annoying when I asked another mom about date nights and she responded with, "But why would you ever want to get away from your kids?" So I am not a believer in the "must always act happy and never say anything negative" mindset. However, at a certain point, the endless whining, groaning, etc. from some people starts to drain me. I have energy problems and listening to people go on and on about minor things just sucks the life out of me. I've seen people post over and over at this forum about negative parents and in-laws that they want or have to avoid. I'm sure many of these drama queen or judgmental parents believe they are "just try to express themselves" and that they "shouldn't bottle eveything up." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 One of my five children is like this. She wears all of her emotions on her sleeve and you always know what she is thinking. Actually, in a way it's refreshing, because sometimes as kids get older they hold in their feelings and it's harder to tell what they're thinking and going through. But with this one, I ALWAYS know what she is thinking and what might be troubling her. She is also my perfectionist. I wonder if that tends to go hand-in-hand with being an over-the-top emotional person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Hobbes is a smiley, energetic, affectionate extrovert. I wouldn't call him negative. It's more as if his mind runs in circles and the negative bits are always said out loud (or groaned about); My knee hurts (thinks about/does other things for a bit) My knee still hurts (thinks about/does other things for a bit) My knee still hurts.... The bits in between don't get expressed, but whatever is bothering him checks in for a mention every now and then. Thanks, everyone - you've all helped me to understand a little better. I think I'll talk to him about the effect that his complaints have on other people. I did ask him about whether he expects a reaction when he says these things. He said, 'Well, it's nice that you are interested, but I'm mostly talking to myself, I think.' L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCB Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 This has been a really interesting thread. I live with at least 1 groaner, and possibly have another one in the making. I find it really annoying because it stresses me out to listen to it. I must confess I have never really thought about this being just the way some people are. I always take the groaning to heart, but maybe I shouldn't. I definitely do my fair share of complaining but I don't tend to moan or groan out about things. I think, when one is not a groaner, it can be quite uncomfortable listening to a groaner. I was wondering, do those of you who are groaners find other groaners distressing or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I am not reading the whole thread before posting, so I am sorry if these things have already been pointed out. But, maybe he is just a think out louder? Maybe you could channel that in another manner like making a list or writing in a journal? Maybe he just needs to put those things out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Mousie Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I would not say my son is a habitual groaner, as described in this thread, but that doesn't stop me from expressing a few thoughts: Does he groan when you are not in the room? I'd be tempted to test this. When he starts up, go to where he cannot see you, but you can still hear him. If the groaning lessens or ceases, you'll know that it is at least partially audience-driven. Also note whether it increases, decreases, or remains even when his brother and father are around. Moans and groans vs. speaking the problem - I *still* have to remind DS to "use words" to articulate the misery of the moment. And it does seem to help him when he does so; I suppose word-selection uses a different part of the brain than the reptilian Grunt Center. The situation in general reminds me of elderly people who complain constantly about their ailments. I'm sure you wouldn't do this, Laura, but I probably could not help a little humor like "ach! my goiter!" when the groaning gets to be too much to take. [Apologies to anyone who actually has experience with goiter troubles. I use it merely as a generic complaint.] I wonder if saying something positive after EVERY groan might clue him in to how frequently he is groaning. I'd guess he is not even aware of how often it happens. So if he says "my knee hurts," and you say "it's great to be alive!" or "how I love a sunny day!" you can at least drive him equally bonkers. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen in CO Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Laura, after you try everything else that seems reasonable, try what I have done. I either overreact as if the minor complaint is in fact the most terrible problem in the world until he reassures me that it isn't that bad, or I sing that song "it's the end of the world." Somewhere between the whiner and the stoic is a reasonable medium. I lean more towards strong-silent and have little tolerance for whining. This isn't something that can be fixed overnight. It requires that you respond differently than you have in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saraha Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I am a think out louder. It didn't take very long for my husband to figure this out. Now we have a system. When I start in complaining about a problem, for example an upcoming event I am chairing and people are being difficult, he politely listens for a while. Then he will offer a suggestion, if I shoot down his suggestion, he knows I am just venting and he smiles and nods while thinking about something else I am sure. Eventually I wlll talk my way around to a solution that I like, or will eventually get it all out and we move on. Or I will warn him if I catch myself starting in, "Don't listen to me, I am just venting," and he will go on with his work until I get it all out. Part of our problem is that I can go for weeks at a time where I don't get to talk to anyone except him, so he gets it all lucky guy. The other part is that he knows I am a thinker out louder and that if he just lets me verbalize to him, I will come to my solution and can move on. Is this annoying? Probably, but he doesn't seem to mind much. If he is having a bad day, or in a mood and can't deal with my verbal vomiting, he lets me know and I save it for later ;-) I will say however, that I do catch myself doing this to other people on the rare occasion I get together with someone, and have actually stopped myself in mid sentence to try to change the flow of my conversation. I am better at this now that I am older, but do admit that sometimes in my excitement to talk to someone, anyone, every thought I have comes straight out of my mouth unless I make a conscious effort to stop it. You can tell I am a big extrovert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 shutting in one's feelings just because it may make some others uncomfortable doesn't sound healthy either. There is a difference between shutting in one's feelings and finding a non-irritating way to express them. Certainly, find a way to deal with your feelings, but it needn't be in a way that disturbs others' peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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