Late to Playdate/Hanging Out?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Calming Tea, I have this irrational (?) fear that I might have done that to some old friends whom I haven't seen in years.  Our lives have all changed a lot, but we used to periodically exchange emails trying to find a date that would work for a lunch or dinner.  Mom brain did a lot of strange things to me when my kids were little.

 

 

I want to make a shout-out for my close personal friends.  They know that getting together when I have a chronic illness can be difficult.  I don't know if I'm going to be in pain or with severe fatigue etc. and so that makes me hesitate to make arrangements sometimes.  But they'll call or e-mail and tell me "I want to get together with you.  I'm not taking 'no' for an answer.  I'll go to where you are, I'll conform to how you are that day, but I want to see you."  No kidding!  These ladies are wonderful.  

 

This impacts the arrangements that my kids have with friends.  The kids know that they can arrange for friends to come, but my involvement has to be minimal and low maintenance.  If I'm in pain and the house isn't as picked up, then friends will have to be ok with that or my kids will have to do all the picking up to avoid embarrassment.  I will drop someone off for an activity somewhere (like I did in the situation referred to here) but I can't do complicated scenarios that involve a lot of participation on my part.  That was a huge reason why when the mom wanted to change the going home time, I had to say no.  I couldn't promise that I would be functional for longer than the time scheduled.  It is also a reason why having times change so drastically caused me some stress.  

[QueenCat]

Another point of view here: "Lateness"is  culturally defined. WPT (white people's time) in the US allows that 5 min late is perfectly fine and 15 min late is the max. In other countries, an hour late in many other countries or in certain ethnic niches in the US is very acceptable and no one gets worried or bent out of shape for another hour or so.

 

 

This reminds me of a New Years Open House that we were invited to a couple of years ago. We were told "anytime after 1pm" and that it would go on until about 9pm. So we showed up at 2pm. The husband was in the shower and the wife was doing her hair when the kids let us in. They were stunned to see us. We were so confused. No one else showed up until after 3, and most not until after 4. They run on what they call "Puerto Rican" time. Their words, not mine.

[KungFuPanda]

Of course it is your prerogative to do this and certainly I think with a mild case I could get over it too, but look at your list of fairly elaborate coping mechanisms.  You are going through quite a bit to accommodate these people, but they can't be bothered to go through anything to just show up on time once in awhile.  I can't help but want to tear my hair out at this thought.  LOL

What you view as 'elaborate coping mechanisms' doesn't look all that difficult to people with more diplomatic personalities. Truly enjoying the company of different types of people often involves an ability to fully relax and a talent for making contingency plans. Adaptability is a life skill!

[Ellie]

This reminds me of a New Years Open House that we were invited to a couple of years ago. We were told "anytime after 1pm" and that it would go on until about 9pm. So we showed up at 2pm. The husband was in the shower and the wife was doing her hair when the kids let us in. They were stunned to see us. We were so confused. No one else showed up until after 3, and most not until after 4. They run on what they call "Puerto Rican" time. Their words, not mine.

 

:blink:

 

Ok, so, why did they tell you "any time after 1 p.m."?? I don't get it...

[Ellie]

True Story: I am always always early because I don't like getting anxious and nervous about being late. I plan ahead etc

 

One time about 8 years ago a friend set me up with a homeschool lady who lived in the neighborhood across the street. Walking distance. My kids were 3 and 4. I called the lady and arranged to meet her at the park. I had it in the calendar and was so excited because I thought we had so much in common.

 

I totally forgot. The day of the park date she called me after the appointed time and asked what napped. I profusely apologized and said that I had been totally looking forward to it, it was on my calendar but I just got busy with our daily routine...so she graciously set up another date at the same park near her house.

 

I blew it AGAIN!!!! I have no idea why or how as, She left a message telling me that she had gotten back from the park and she guessed I wasn't able to make it.

 

I felt like poop. But I decided then and there that for whatever reason it was not meant to be! I'm sure she decided the same thing lol. I did call back and leave a message apologizing but I decided not to try her patience a third time.

 

Wired true story.

 

I feel your pain.

 

Twice I have scheduled meetings (for different groups) at my house.

 

And I forgot. I was not even home when they arrived.

 

::hangs head in shame::

[La Condessa]

Wow, I had no idea so many people felt so strongly about tardiness. I'm feeling kind of mortified at the idea that others may have taken my lateness in the past as an indicator of personal disrespect for them. I grew up with a mom who cannot judge time--she is constantly checking the clock and tries to get places on time, but she has absolutely no ability to accurately judge how long a task or trip will take to complete, so we were commonly late to everything (often 30-45 minutes, sometimes more). I grew up with that as the norm, but have spent the last 5 years or so trying to correct that habit in myself. I've gradually improved in my time management skills, but I'm still usually at least a little late, and it seems like every time I have another baby, or the little one goes mobile, or the toddler starts potty training, it sets my average arrival time back ~20 minutes or so and I have to adjust and learn again to make up that difference. I hope I haven't offended too many people in this.

[QueenCat]

:blink:

 

Ok, so, why did they tell you "any time after 1 p.m."?? I don't get it...

 

Apparently, "everyone" knows that you do not come until at least 2-3 hours after you were told it starts. Everyone knew... except us, the only ones who were not a part of their culture/group. I don't get it either.

[QueenCat]

Yeah that is weird. I don't show up early because I do understand how that might throw someone off if they are doing some last minute whatever, but that I'm really supposed to be 2 to 3 hours later than told?  I don't get it.  Who does that and why?!

 

They explained to me that it is their "culture"......... they are Puerto Rican, as were all of the other guests (except us)..

[Jean in Newcastle]

They explained to me that it is their "culture"......... they are Puerto Rican, as were all of the other guests (except us)..

Yes, that would be Filipino culture too but we make sure that everyone knows if we're running on Filipino time or not.  If we are, we convert that into American time for those who need it.  And no, I don't know why they don't always convert it into American time.  They just don't.  

[QueenCat]

Why can't people just say what they mean?!  LOL

 

Every time they've invited us, or ds over, since then, I have explicitly asked "What time do you "really" want us/him over?" :confused1:

[TXBeth]

So how does the dentist react when all of the patients arrive at various time - 5 minutes late, 30 minutes late, and hour late, etc..  How would they ever make and attempt to adhere to a schedule if they never know when your patients are going to arrive?

 

Or are patients expected to arrive on time and it's only the professional who is entitled to arrive at his leisure?

 

 

I'm not the one you were asking, but I can tell you how it works here in Thailand, which is a similar culture in regards to time. Most doctors do not take appointments at all. They have clinic hours. So, for example, if I need to consult with a dermatologist, I look up the clinic hours (usually something like 5-8pm MWF). Then I show up somewhere during that window and put my name on the list. Some places open the list 30 minutes or an hour before the clinic actually opens. The doctor usually arrives a bit after the opening time and starts working his way through the list. At some point they decide the list is closed and everyone else has to come back another day. But if you make it into the list, you will usually get seen, even if it means the doctor stays later than the published hours.

[Barb_]

I'm not the one you were asking, but I can tell you how it works here in Thailand, which is a similar culture in regards to time. Most doctors do not take appointments at all. They have clinic hours. So, for example, if I need to consult with a dermatologist, I look up the clinic hours (usually something like 5-8pm MWF). Then I show up somewhere during that window and put my name on the list. Some places open the list 30 minutes or an hour before the clinic actually opens. The doctor usually arrives a bit after the opening time and starts working his way through the list. At some point they decide the list is closed and everyone else has to come back another day. But if you make it into the list, you will usually get seen, even if it means the doctor stays later than the published hours.

 

That sounds like the DMV.

[Jean in Newcastle]

That sounds like the DMV.

Yep.  That's how they did it in Japan too - including the ER!  (I sure they triage the most urgent patients.  At least I hope they do.)

[SKL]

:blink:

 

Ok, so, why did they tell you "any time after 1 p.m."?? I don't get it...

 

 Because if they would have said "after 4pm" most of the people wouldn't show up until 7.  ;)

 

[Ellie]

Wow, I had no idea so many people felt so strongly about tardiness. I'm feeling kind of mortified at the idea that others may have taken my lateness in the past as an indicator of personal disrespect for them. I grew up with a mom who cannot judge time--she is constantly checking the clock and tries to get places on time, but she has absolutely no ability to accurately judge how long a task or trip will take to complete, so we were commonly late to everything (often 30-45 minutes, sometimes more). I grew up with that as the norm, but have spent the last 5 years or so trying to correct that habit in myself. I've gradually improved in my time management skills, but I'm still usually at least a little late, and it seems like every time I have another baby, or the little one goes mobile, or the toddler starts potty training, it sets my average arrival time back ~20 minutes or so and I have to adjust and learn again to make up that difference. I hope I haven't offended too many people in this.

 

People are pretty forgiving if their friends are late once in awhile, especially if those friends are special. :-) It's when they are depending on people to be where they say they'll be, when they say they'll be there, and then they aren't, that there are problems.

 

That you recognize this fault and are working on it is a good sign. :-)

[Laura Corin]

 

My family is so surprised that I chose a job that required regular air travel. But I never missed a flight - ever. I had to give myself an extra two hours :lol: but I was always there for boarding! I had to leave hotels two hours before my co-workers, I had to leave home four hours before departure to ensure I was in the boarding lounge on time (everyone I worked with left two hours early if driving, one if being dropped off). When my regular life permits, I take the same steps to arrive on time (doctors, weddings, funerals, volunteering) but my life doesn't always permit.

 

 

Those 'extra two hours' are probably what most people factor into every day in order not to be late.  As an example: when the kids were smaller and I knew we had to leave at 2, I would get them into their clothes and shoes by 1.45, and sit them down at the kitchen table with books/toys.  That left 15 minutes for things to go wrong, or if things went right, I had a little time to run around and do a few jobs.  Those books/toys came with us in the car, in case we arrived early at the appointment.  Whilst waiting in the car, they would read and I would make calls, pay bills over the phone, etc.

 

L

[marbel]

Right, and what about those of us who have commitments and appointments that DO start on time, for which we cannot be late, who are trying to deal with people like this aforementioned dentist who didn't show up on time?

 

I have a son who is dual enrolled at a community college. He has classes five days a week, classes which start on time and in which his grade will suffer if he is late.

 

He also has dance classes -- a couple of which he teaches -- four days a week, classes which must start and end on time so as not to throw off the schedule for subsequent classes each day.

 

My daughter works two part-time jobs and does not drive (anxiety issues). She words an average of six days a week. Neither job is accessible by public transportation. If she is late to either one, her pay will be docked and a notation will be made on her record. If she loses enough "points" at her primary job, she will not be eligible for raises or promotions and is in danger of being fired.

 

Both of these teens depend on me to get them where they need to be, on time and every day. If I need to squeeze in a doctor's appointment and allot a certain amount of time to do so and then the doctor is late, that creates a cascade of lateness for me and for everyone who depends on me, with potentially serious consequences.

 

<snip>

 

My guess is that in cultures where time is not so important, people are simply not so tightly scheduled and are not doing so many different things in different locations.  I think people in a lot of places would look at your schedule and shake their head in amazement at all you have to do.  (Not that there's anything wrong with it; I think it's just another cultural difference.)

 

ETA: the more I read this thread, the more attractive the less-scheduled life looks too me.  I have never lived outside the US and at this point in my life, don't expect to.  I'm not particularly well-traveled.  So I don't really know what it's like anywhere else.  But the thought of sitting waiting in the doctor's office for my turn (rather than my set appointment) with no worries about what I'm going to be late for... I don't know, that sounds like it could be rather nice. (Maybe only once in a while?)   I imagine there are impatient people in those waiting rooms, but there may be other people chatting quietly, meeting someone new, or reading, or just lost in their own thoughts.  I think in general we in the USA (North America?  Northwestern Europe?) tend to think our focus on productivity is the "right way" to live... and maybe it's just not for everyone.

 

Kind of like moving to Philadelphia from Oregon.  Both in the US but Philly is quite different from Portland!  And so many people, who have lived here all their lives, cannot imagine that people could do things differently - or perhaps even better - somewhere else.   It's actually a bit off-putting, the cultural superiority I come across.

[poppy]

My guess is that in cultures where time is not so important, people are simply not so tightly scheduled and are not doing so many different things in different locations.  I think people in a lot of places would look at your schedule and shake their head in amazement at all you have to do.  (Not that there's anything wrong with it; I think it's just another cultural difference.)

 

 

Yes, I would say both those kids are very heavily scheduled even by American standards.  That kind of scheduling can really only happen in a culture that values promptness and assumes multiple cars in every family. Nothing wrong with that, of course,  but, we're comparing it to places with a completely different culture. 

 

I got married in Jamaica. The minister showed up on time. The hairdressers did not, and they took their sweet time getting me ready, and were so relaxed about it. "Don't worry honey. They can't start without you."  It would be terrible service in the US, but in context, it was nice.  We all had mimosas.

[Jenny in Florida]

My guess is that in cultures where time is not so important, people are simply not so tightly scheduled and are not doing so many different things in different locations.  I think people in a lot of places would look at your schedule and shake their head in amazement at all you have to do.  (Not that there's anything wrong with it; I think it's just another cultural difference.)

 

 

Oh, I understand that. (Sometimes I shake my head at my schedule, too.) However, I think what those of us who advocate for punctuality are saying is that, in consideration of those who do have an actual schedule to keep, expectations should be clear.

 

In other words, if I went to a doctor or dentist who operated the way one person described -- patients sign in and are seen in order -- I would have the opportunity to arrange my day to accommodate that. (Well, I would likely just choose a different doctor, but at least I'd have a choice.) And if I made plans with a friend to have her drop by "sometime between lunch and dinner," I would understand that my best bet was to make sure I was home but not sitting on my hands waiting for the doorbell to ring. I could also manage my child's expectations appropriately.

 

What causes problems is when people pretend that they are making "appointments" but actually want the freedom to function more casually. If you think you might be at my house between 3:00 and 4:00, please don't tell me to expect you at 1:00. That's just rude.

 

And the thing is that, in most parts of the U.S., most people do have certain places they need to be or certain things that need to get done at specific times. The vast majority of people I know have jobs and/or kids in school (or both), at the very minimum. We simply don't have the luxury of being able to wander into those things when we feel like doing so. If one is going to deviate from that norm, I don't think it's unreasonable to at least be honest about it when making plans.

[katilac]

The doctor usually arrives a bit after the opening time and starts working his way through the list. At some point they decide the list is closed and everyone else has to come back another day.  

 

You just exploded my brain. 

 

 What causes problems is when people pretend that they are making "appointments" but actually want the freedom to function more casually. If you think you might be at my house between 3:00 and 4:00, please don't tell me to expect you at 1:00. That's just rude.

 

And the thing is that, in most parts of the U.S., most people do have certain places they need to be or certain things that need to get done at specific times. The vast majority of people I know have jobs and/or kids in school (or both), at the very minimum. We simply don't have the luxury of being able to wander into those things when we feel like doing so. If one is going to deviate from that norm, I don't think it's unreasonable to at least be honest about it when making plans.

 

This, exactly! If you know that you are routinely and significantly late, why on earth would you make time-sensitive plans with other people? I don't think the reason you are routinely late is all that important, honestly. Simply tell the other person that you rarely on time, and so it would be better to make more casual plans.  If you are invited to meet a group for lunch at 1 p.m. and then head over to the zoo, why not say, "We are really bad about being on time; would it be okay if we skipped lunch and just met up with everyone at the zoo? Maybe I could text to see where you are." 

 

Isn't that easy enough to do? And maybe you organize casual group park days rather than timed playdates, don't ask to carpool, and so on. I also cannot comprehend why someone wouldn't text if they are running quite late - I mean, if you haven't left your house when it's already time to be there, clearly you should let people know.   

 

No matter what the reason is for one's chronic lateness, they can extend these kinds of courtesies. 

[wintermom]

I'm a punctual person, having it probably in my blood as well as my upbringing, but I went through a few crazy years when my 4 children were very young of never being able to get to things on time. It was torture trying to get everything all together - kids, diapers, food, nursings, etc. - in the magical moment to get into the van and on time. Winters were especially wicked when I had to remember to factor in snowsuites, brushing snow off the car, doing some quick shovelling, de-frosting the windshield, and driving conditions. How on earth (and WHY!) I ever got out the door I'm wondering about as I write this. Thankfully I had some gracious and understanding friends, but even at the most challenging times I don't remember ever being an hour late without phoning to warn them (and I do remember making phone calls to let people know we'd be 30 minutes late). Some phases of life can be extra challenging.

 

 

[marbel]

I don't know.  I'm not tightly scheduled at all.  I would not want to just show up whenever at the Dr office though.  With my luck I'd get there when it was busy and end up waiting all day.  Who REALLY wants to do that?  Ever go to the ER?  It's like that at the ER.  There is nothing fun about it. 

 

Yeah, I'm just musing.  I probably would not like it.  But what if it was all I knew?    I know how awful it is to wait in the ER - I was there last week when my daughter had an allergic reaction to her allergy shot - but if it wasn't a scary emergency, and I was used to waiting?   I'm just not sure, not having experienced it.  Right now I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone who'd like more time to read.  Sitting in a waiting room reading?  Ahhh...   Yeah, I know, not the same.

[Lisbeth]

Untreated, my ADD makes me late and chronically lost ...treated I am on time and not lost. Before treatment I could get lost ovr and ovr and ovr...going to the same place.

[OneStepAtATime]

I don't know.  I'm not tightly scheduled at all.  I would not want to just show up whenever at the Dr office though.  With my luck I'd get there when it was busy and end up waiting all day.  Who REALLY wants to do that?  Ever go to the ER?  It's like that at the ER.  There is nothing fun about it. 

Chronic lateness in friends is annoying but usually I can deal with it.  I have difficulties in this area, too.  If I have time constraints of my own, I let them know.  And if they just don't seem to care at all whether they show up on time, or how it affects the person on the other end, then sometimes I stop encouraging get togethers.   I try hard not to be late myself since I don't want to inconvenience anyone else.  These things don't get me half as upset as having to consistently wait forever at a doctor's office, though.  (I know things happen and once in a while, while inconvenient, is perfectly understandable). Having dealt with doctors that have no schedule, I find that set up really is counterproductive and annoying and I hate it.  This doesn't just occur in other countries.

 

When I was trying to recover from a botched surgery for breast cancer and the cancer doctor switched me to a new surgeon to assess what could be done (I felt like a butcher knife was in my chest with every.single.breath) I found out that the new surgeon did not believe in appointments.  You showed up and they took you in order of when you arrived.  You might wait half an hour or 7 hours or have to come back the next day having waited all day long, right through lunch and the afternoon as well.  And then you get to start over, hoping to be seen.  His office opened at 8, but there were people lined up by 7am and he didn't usually arrive until 9.  NOT!!!  After two visits this way, I shopped around for someone else.

 

I know that because of insurance requirements (apparently), there are many doctors here that over schedule and get backlogged quickly so even if you have an appointment, the time you are scheduled for may have nothing to do with the time you actually get in.  I don't mind waiting a bit (well it is annoying but I don't gripe) because I know that the doctor cannot predict how each visit will go and I would hope they would take the time to truly understand the situation and assess it as accurately as possible for each patient.  At the same time, when doctors are scheduling a patient every 10 minutes and getting backlogged before they even hit 10am nearly every day, that seems ridiculous.

[Meltel87]

I have a ton of friends like this and my daughters friends are like this. I just tell them 30 minutes earlier than I need them and usually they are almost on time 😁. I make a reservation at 6 i tell them 5:30.