Question for those who limit or cut contact with certain extended family...

[shanvan]

I've been reading threads about hurtful and sometimes abusive situations, manipulation and neglect related to extended family members.  I'll explain our situation, but you can skip right to the question at the end if you are tired of reading details about this sort of thing.

 

We are in that situation with my in-laws.  They show favoritism among grandchildren and have hurt Dh and Dc in various ways over the years with manipulative behavior (to get what they want, like the big family Christmas, for example) alternating with neglect and uncaring.  They talk about all the soccer and baseball games they attend for nephew (in front of Dc), but will not attend any of Dc's events.  They also give money to help fund the nephew's school every year b/c 'it is so expensive', yet even when Dh has told them about a couple of Ds's expensive online classes or curriculum, they don't offer to help.  When Ds had an eighth grade graduation party they came and were the only ones who did not give some sort of card or gift.   Dh was unemployed for almost 6 months and they did not help us once in any way.  No dropping off food or grocery items, no offering to help pay for school books for the kids, nothing, nada.  We were blessed with help from many friends, other family, and acquaintances, so their absolute disregard for what we were going through was painfully obvious.  No emotional support either.  

 

B/c we thought maybe they are just very dense and did not think about it, we asked specifically if they could pick up school supplies for the kids back in August.  We looked at the flyer for their grocery store where they shop weekly and made a list of sale items that added up to maybe $25 total if everything had been purchased.  Dh just asked them to pick up what they could.  They never bought any of it.  BUT when we were there for the holidays Mil wrapped loose leaf paper and erasable pens along with their gifts to be opened in front of everyone highlighting the fact that we said we needed help with school supplies.  Of course, by now we have what we need!  I couldn't wait until the end of December.  And just to be picky, we don't use erasable pens, and those items were not on the list we gave her.  

 

At their family Christmas the school supply stuff was just the tip of the iceberg, but I'm not going to post the gory details.  Basic gist is Fil was visibly drunk and offensive.

 

So, my question:  If you cut off contact from relatives who have a repeated pattern of hurtful behavior, how do you explain it to your Dc in a way that is understandable, so that they don't think it is okay to become intolerant and closed off to the world?  My Dc are getting older now and I worry that we could be modeling an attitude that may come back to us someday when they decide to cut off contact with us b/c we don't agree on something.  Anyone else worry about that?  

 

Of course, I think Dh and I are working harder on relationships with Dc than his parents are, but still, I also know we have our own character flaws and I'd hate to think I'm not modeling extending grace to others.  I also realize Dc need to learn how to get along with lots of different personalities and shouldn't be taking offense at the drop of a hat.  I'm definitely not saying families should expose themselves to horrible treatment by extended family members.  I'm just pondering as Dh and I discuss a somewhat shocking Christmas with his parents and how we are proceeding with this relationship in the future.

[Seeker of Schole]

My children and I have almost no contact with my MIL (only see her when social obligation requires, and only in a group setting). My oldest knows exactly why we are not on good terms with MIL. She was on the receiving end of favoritism for too long, and then was there when MIL had her epic meltdown. My youngest has no clue - she has no memory of her at all. She has started to ask why she only has one grandma. I try to keep my explanation honest but simple. I have asked her how we are to treat others - with kindness and respect - and how it feels when others don't treat us that way. Then I explain to her that her other grandma does not treat others with kindness and respect and so we choose to not see her very often. As she gets older, I expect I will have to explain more simply because of how curious she is, but for now that is working. I'm hoping that explaining it in that way will help her to good future expectations for family and friends.

[Tiramisu]

You have my sympathy and my prayers. I have asked myself these same questions and I don't have a good answer yet. I am honest with our dc that we have a relative who is ?? and we are keeping our distance. We tell them she is in need of our prayers but we need to actually pray for her more.

 

We have also tried to talk about and show our dc this season that we may need to be flexible for the sake of others while being consistent about the need to separate ourselves. Trying to be merciful didn't quite work out because now the other person is keeping away from us, which isn't such a bad thing.

 

Ours isn't a grandparent situation and I think that would be much harder. I know our kids feel it when the grandparents in our family aren't fair. I think talking about is as honestly as is age appropriate is important to try to mediate the emotional effects of the in-law behavior. It sounds very painful. :(

 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[G5052]

FWIW, I would keep in contact, but minimally.  From what you've written, they have favorites and aren't that caring towards your family.  I would tell the kids that life involves a variety of relationships.  Some are close and caring, and some are not.  It is fine to point out that they have friends they really enjoy being with, and others that are OK but not their best buds.  It is OK to tell them that you don't consider these relatives to be the "close and caring" type.  Treat them with respect, but frankly I'd cut all expectations.  They don't really care much about you, and that's that. The reality is that we have many of these types of relationships in life.  When I worked for 15 years before children, I had several bosses that were like this.  Overt favoritism and verbal sniping here and there.  But I kept working there because I loved my employees and the work I was doing.  Life is like that.

 

When I cut off family members, they were mentally ill with verbal and even physical abuse part of the relationship.  At several points they pursued legal action against me, but in each case couldn't find a lawyer that would take the case.  Going no-contact was an absolute must.  

 

Other relatives are more like the type you describe.  Not close, and I don't expect much of them at all.  Nor do I make a lot of effort to keep in touch with them.  One of them technically owes me a good sum of money, and frankly I've let that one go.  They know that we have significant ongoing medical bills and college coming up, and there has been minimal effort to settle up.  So frankly I've moved on and am not expecting it. Not a "close and caring" relative.

[Scarlett]

FWIW, I would keep in contact, but minimally. From what you've written, they have favorites and aren't that caring towards your family. I would tell the kids that life involves a variety of relationships. Some are close and caring, and some are not. It is fine to point out that they have friends they really enjoy being with, and others that are OK but not their best buds. It is OK to tell them that you don't consider these relatives to be the "close and caring" type. Treat them with respect, but frankly I'd cut all expectations. They don't really care much about you, and that's that. The reality is that we have many of these types of relationships in life. When I worked for 15 years before children, I had several bosses that were like this. Overt favoritism and verbal sniping here and there. But I kept working there because I loved my employees and the work I was doing. Life is like that.

 

When I cut off family members, they were mentally ill with verbal and even physical abuse part of the relationship. At several points they pursued legal action against me, but in each case couldn't find a lawyer that would take the case. Going no-contact was an absolute must.

 

Other relatives are more like the type you describe. Not close, and I don't expect much of them at all. Nor do I make a lot of effort to keep in touch with them. One of them technically owes me a good sum of money, and frankly I've let that one go. They know that we have significant ongoing medical bills and college coming up, and there has been minimal effort to settle up. So frankly I've moved on and am not expecting it. Not a "close and caring" relative.

Yes this. Only in very rare situations( and I've read of a few on this board) would I make a formal No Contact statement.

 

To me the main thing to model is to stop trying so hard with people who obviously don't care. Your kids need to see you being respectful and polite....but they should see also that you don't keep putting yourself out there emotionally for people who never return the gesture.

[Heather in Neverland]

I have not seen or spoken to my father since my oldest child was a year old. The reasons are numerous. For a long time we just never spoke of my father and my children never really asked. It just didn't occur to them.

 

As my ds got older he started asking questions and I was truthful with him. I told him my father was not a nice man and he would be a negative presence in our lives so we do not associate with him. End of story.

[shanvan]

We've been taking pretty much the same approaches mentioned here and Dc know the difference b/t close relationships and umm, relationships where they can't expect much.  After the holiday, Dh is pretty upset and has mentioned cutting contact, though I think he is calming down now and thinking about limiting it more and just not attending their big family Christmas in the future.  

 

I think he feels the need to let them know how their behavior affects him and Dc.  He would never mention me b/c they don't really care about me much unless something is happening to me that would affect Dh or kids.  I don't see the point in letting them know anything b/c I don't think they are going to change.  I think the only thing we can do is change our own behavior.

 

ETA: Now that I am thinking more about it, I think Dh is just wishing his relationship with them were different.  

[Tess in the Burbs]

Well  for us it was continual disrespect for us as a family that led to years of no contact, now with minimal contact.  My inlaws live on the same street as their daughter and all her inlaws.  MIL's sister and her kids are down the road as well as her mom(same street as her sister).  We are the black sheep for not wanting to live in a 2 mile radius of all of them.  

 

We tried to come to holidays.  We sat and watched gifts being exchanged among them for many years that was hurtful.  When one grandkid gets a laptop computer and the other gets used yard sale toys it's obvious the value you have to their hearts.  It's not about the money, but the obvious affection toward those grandkids over your own.  The years we drew names we got nothing even though we sent our gifts.  In other words, we do not matter to these people.  We don't get any respect from them.  When we showed up years ago in a last ditch effort to display the kindness we want our kids to learn they knew DS had been diagnosed with peanuts. We explained they needed to avoid the peanuts in the house with us there.  We arrived to a nut buffet set up in the living room and everyone eating nuts/touching every surface of the house with no hand washing.  When I left in the snow storm to get food DS could eat there were things said about me/DS while DH and dd were there.  They do not love us.  They do not respect us.  And so we no longer go there.  Our efforts over the years were never appreciated and at this point keeping people who don't love us out of our lives is the best display of teaching love we can give to our kids.  

 

I will say that the inlaws have tried this year to be more involved.  They came twice.  I didn't turn them away.  It still wasn't good visits.  DD's birthday was forgotten for months.  I was shocked when DS got a card/giftcard on time this year.  So perhaps they are realizing we have been absent for awhile???  But in the end, we still keep our distance.  We found they don't call us.  It takes us calling to keep in touch.  That isn't a healthy relationship....it's one sided.  And my kids don't like these grandparents.....they are figuring out on their own who comes and spends quality time with them.  Who remembers their birthday.  Who shows them love in a variety of ways.  

 

My sister is a mess even as an adult and after some awful experiences with her when the kids were babes I am glad she's stopped coming around.  She however, is trying by putting money into a savings fund for them.  She raided the fund last year in one of her bad spells, but when I opened a new account she worked hard last year to replace it all and has kept up with putting money in there.  She's an e-card kind of person, but it's best for everyone.  The kids know she has alcohol problems but they also know she's helping them save for college.  So they know the distance is for everyone's safety at this point.  But they know she thinks of them by giving toward them in some small way. 

 

I decided to stop being hurt that my MIL views us as less than her daughter and those grandkids.  She can love who she wants.  She is missing out on my kids and all they could bring to her life.  They did come to some sports last year to show support but the last visit they wanted nothing going on so they could just visit.  Then they slept most of the day on the couch and had no interest in going anywhere.  I cooked what they wanted but then they lied and snuck out to get fast food.  We find them frustrating and I tell DH honestly that it's up to him how much he calls or wants to visit them.  He often chooses not to.  Phone calls can be an hour and not once do they ask how we are.  Or she gets too involved asking about us and starts sending job listings near her.  

 

I surround myself with people who like us.  And want to be with us.  Our circle is small but we have less drama.  I have a personality that likes to please other people and drama stresses me out....I can't fix everyone, I can't please everyone, so I have to avoid those type of situations where I will only get hurt in trying to help.  

 

Good luck building boundaries.  It's hard at first.  But stop calling.  Stop returning calls.  Heck, stop sending cards on birthdays.  For us, disappearing from everything was easy.  No one cared to ask why we weren't there.  I laugh when the grandma calls me asking me why we didn't come to a cousin's wedding.  I explained we hadn't gotten an invitation.  She said we didn't need one.  I explained I did if they wanted me to show up....time/date/place is helpful.  I don't send gifts to cousin's I haven't seen in a decade.  And I can't show up if no one tells me about it.  We got 12 hours notice about the grandfather's funeral and it's 6 hours from here.  DH asked for one thing of his grandfather's.  Nope, they gave it to a friend of a step relative instead.  He was so sad.  I was shocked they gave valuable stuff to random people, never asking if the grandson wanted it.  We aren't important to them.  So they aren't important to us.  

 

sorry this got long.  

[bodiesmom]

We had no contact with my in laws for quite some time. We approached it in a way that drew healthy boundaries. Both my husband and I were very willing to work through the hurtful issues and within the healthy boundaries, but they were not. Hence, contact ceased (which we were very okay with, almost relieved). Our kids were small at the time but as they grew older we began explaining it to them in a manner very similar to pp's.

 

My SIL has very limited contact with them (her father) and is seeing them today. She has been physically sick and stricken with a migraine in the days leading up to this annual meeting. It's hard to watch her endure the abuse. She insists she is maintaining contact to keep the family together. My thought has always been "but at what cost?". It is indeed a personal decision.

 

The book Boundaires helped my husband and I immensely (the recent thread reminded me of it).

 

I'm so sorry you are going through this. We are Christian (which added another element of guilt to the whole situation) and prayer was critical during that time almost a decade ago.

 

D

[shanvan]

 

 

sorry this got long.  

It can't help but be long in these situations! 

[QueenCat]

I have a lot of thoughts but I'll only share one now............ Children notice favoritism, even the favored ones notice. My niece, when she turned 15, told her grandparents (my fil/mil) that she did not think it was fair that they favored her with so many gifts and time, and did next to nothing for their other grandchildren. They tried to say come up with "good" reasons but she didn't buy it. They lost all of their grandchildren for quite some time, including the one they favored. Their relationships are marginal, even now, with all of them. It is so sad..............

[Guest inoubliable]

DH cut off all contact with his family years ago. They were drunks, drug addicts, prostitutes, gun crazies, violent, threatening, racist, dismissive of our son (mine biologically, but adopted by DH within weeks of our wedding), and they tried to start several rumors meant to cause a breakup. While we haven't told our children (only two of them have ever even met them) many details, they do know that I was threatened with violence and that they didn't accept our oldest son. And they know that this is something *we* would never be okay with. It's not a question of "showing grace" or being too closed off. It was an issue of personal safety and preserving our own family's cohesiveness and support system. 

I drastically cut ties with my own family last year. They were suddenly admitting that they treated me, my children, and my DH like crap because they disagreed with some of our life choices and took it personally. *snort* So I stopped communicating with them. Over the past few months, I've allowed a little more communication - we enjoyed pleasant one-day visits from my parents and my sister and her family for the holidays - and it seems as though they've rethought some of their actions towards us. We'll see how long that lasts, though. They apparently still have an issue with my DH. 

[Harriet Vane]

I have always felt that honesty is the best policy.

 

It also takes some discernment to know when a brief, general explanation is best or if more detail is appropriate.

 

Mostly I just say that these are unhappy people. I their unhappiness they have a hard time knowing how to treat people with kindness.

 

As my kids have gotten older I have been more and more open. My kids see the rude behavior and do not find it attractive. They also get really angry (bless them!) when they see me mistreated. They do not like to spend time with people who treat me so poorly.

[shanvan]

DH cut off all contact with his family years ago. They were drunks, drug addicts, prostitutes, gun crazies, violent, threatening, racist, dismissive of our son (mine biologically, but adopted by DH within weeks of our wedding), and they tried to start several rumors meant to cause a breakup. While we haven't told our children (only two of them have ever even met them) many details, they do know that I was threatened with violence and that they didn't accept our oldest son. And they know that this is something *we* would never be okay with. It's not a question of "showing grace" or being too closed off. It was an issue of personal safety and preserving our own family's cohesiveness and support system. 

 

Definitely not a question of showing grace under those types of circumstances!  I would not hesitate to make the same decision.   :grouphug: 

[laughing lioness]

The relative in mind outed herself this year in a way that was vile and ulgy. We did not give our kids specifics, but the fall-out was extensive and painful enough that our kids were more than aware of it - material damage to our nuclear family in a way that might never be righted.

 

This person has been damaging to us for years but in the last 5 and specifically in 2013, she went way, way over the line of decency. I seriously hope I never have to see her again. My biggest mistake as a parent (of which there have been many) is letting any of my kids have contact with this person alone. She has been spewing hatred and lies for decades, said with a soft and kind tone of voice and gifts- gag! My younger kids see this and don't really want anything to do with them anyway.

 

[Liz CA]

Do they have issues with your homeschooling? It sounds like they pay for expensive schools for other grandchildren and then make a show of giving some paper and pens to your kids. Perhaps this is just one area and there are other things.

Limiting contact would be my choice too. Children are unlikely to notice right away unless you see them daily now.

Age appropriate conversations with your dc can follow.

[*Lulu*]

I have limited contact with several family members over the years.

 

One was an addict and his behavior was damaging to those around him. He is sober over a year now, and we have gradually increased the amount of contact he is allowed with our family. We have been honest with the kids all along that he has an illness and when he is not doing what he needs to be healthy that he is not safe to be around. My oldest son knows more specifics and as the other two age, we will be more candid with them as well.

 

The other family member is my paternal grandmother. Cracker dog crazy doesn't even come close to covering her........

We only see her 2-3x a year for a few hours at a time even though we live on the same end of town. The kids know that she is not well liked by me. They also know that I am civil to her and never treat her badly. My oldest son knows that she is manipulative and mean, and, now that he is older, I am completely open with him about her behavior. Even before we went low contact he knew that things were not right and asked me about it.

 

Kids pick up on a lot more than we give them than we think.

[Seasider]

In our case, the "boundaried" grandparent suffers from attention-seeking behaviors which resulted in utter humiliation of our kids (and dh and I) in numerous situations on numerous occasions (and that's just part of the problem). The result is that my children began to initiate the cutoff, begging me to not invite this person to this performance or that sporting event, etcetera. I honored those requests (trust me when I tell you this goes beyond a quirky relative thing). It has been a real lesson for all of us to walk through conflicted emotions, trying to juggle honor and respect with love and trust. Especially the trust. But the kids didn't need dh and I to say anything; they'd already been deeply affected by this person's erratic behavior and understand that the distancing is a defensive posture, not an offensive one. Of course you can guess who takes the blame for the limited relationship...but that's okay, I know I'm protecting my kids from unhealthy interactions. We LOVE this person, but have learned not to allow anyone to hold us hostage with unreasonable behavior.

 

OP, I just feel the need to mention something. I understand there are multiple reasons why you feel wronged by your il's. But it sort of sounds like you are emphasizing incidents that are financial in nature. The first thing I'd recommend is adjusting your expectations about il's and finances/financial assistance. If you can completely erase any idea that they should support you in any monetary fashion, you will eliminate their ability to hurt and manipulate you with cash as a weapon. Sorry if I've misinterpreted here.

[Lara in Colo]

I am in the process of cutting off my borderline mother (I cannot just "do it" right now for a very big, personal reason).  She came by a couple of weeks ago and just lit into me for 4 hours on my front porch.  I am selfish and cold and uncaring.......

She really did a number on me.  My best friend (Aubrey) actually drove 30 miles to comfort me that night (gosh I love that lady).

SO... what do I tell the children?  The truth.  She is sick and mean and I don't have to be nice to mean people.  My greatest fear is having her turn on my children (and she will.. eventually and if they worship her (like they used to) it would really hurt them).

I guess I decided on the truth (telling them the mean things she says and does to me (and them)) because I think they need examples of how to deal with bullies. (even family)

[mirth]

My Dc are getting older now and I worry that we could be modeling an attitude that may come back to us someday when they decide to cut off contact with us b/c we don't agree on something.  Anyone else worry about that?  

 

No I don't worry about it.   Getting cut loose at any time by any person is the risk you take when you act like a jackass (or worse) and never try to apologize or make up for it.  The first lesson is to recognize bad news when you see it.

[shanvan]

OP, I just feel the need to mention something. I understand there are multiple reasons why you feel wronged by your il's. But it sort of sounds like you are emphasizing incidents that are financial in nature. The first thing I'd recommend is adjusting your expectations about il's and finances/financial assistance. If you can completely erase any idea that they should support you in any monetary fashion, you will eliminate their ability to hurt and manipulate you with cash as a weapon. Sorry if I've misinterpreted here.

ETA: Short version.  The money just highlights the favoritism.  Money has been an issue here for past 5 months since dh lost his job, so it is on my mind a little more than in the past.

 

No, I have no expectations for financial support from them.  Their lack of wanting to help ease the burden while Dh was unemployed was just obvious.  It was difficult for Dh to listen to mil's description of her gambling trips while trying to survive on an unemployment check and paying for cobra benefits.  All the little inexpensive ways others helped us added up and showed they cared, and there were plenty of people who offered help that did not involve money and that made us feel not so alone.  My in-laws lack of caring was highligted by all the kindnesses other showed during that time  We have never asked in-laws for money or financial support beyond those school supplies I mentioned.  I don't call $25 worth of school supplies financial assistance.  They didn't do it, didn't tell us they couldn't afford it, weren't going to do it, no communication whatsoever.  Finally, I skimped on groceries even more for a while until I had what we needed and we shrugged it off as them being them.  But then, to have Dc opening loose leaf paper and a pack of pens at Christmas was just a bit much.  This is absolutely not about looking for handouts in the form of money.  (I suppose it is about, as I mentioned before, continuing to wish for a different relationship and needing to come to realize 'it is what it is')   

 

They bring up the money they give to our nephew's school to us.  The eight grade graduation bit bothered me b/c it hurt Ds.  They also sent money for Dd's birthday and not for Ds's this year.  He noticed.  

 

I did also mention favoritism, refusal to attend any of Dc's events while bragging about their experiences at nephews' games right in front of Dc.   Also drunken Grandpa slurring his words and spewing hatred provided a nice Christmas feeling!  

 

They offered no emotional support to Dh while he was unemployed.  We are stupid for expecting any b/c they haven't offered it through the entire time I've known them.  Yes, you misinterpreted.  There are years of favoritism and emotional blackmail behind us.  I need to avoid rehashing them all in order to stay sane and keep Dh (and myself) calm.

 

You are onto something possibly about the homeschooling, though they don't come out and say much.  

[gardenmom5]

So, my question:  If you cut off contact from relatives who have a repeated pattern of hurtful behavior, how do you explain it to your Dc in a way that is understandable, so that they don't think it is okay to become intolerant and closed off to the world?  My Dc are getting older now and I worry that we could be modeling an attitude that may come back to us someday when they decide to cut off contact with us b/c we don't agree on something. 

 

it get's down to helping them understand the difference between abuse, and even "plain" obnoxiousness. 

I focused on helping my children to love each other and feel loved without having to compete against each other.  they are now adults, and the relationships are all good - even with the normal irritations.  My kids eventually were against contact with some of the more trying personalities and wanting to have holidays without them.

and when dealing with someone who is just awkward, etc. it's teaching to give the benefit of the doubt that the person didn't "mean it like that".

[gardenmom5]

Children notice favoritism, even the favored ones notice.

"some" favored children notice.  some don't.   some even complain about the perceived poor support they get from the dotting parent.

[gardenmom5]

op - have you read about narcisstic personality disorder?  here is one very helpful site.  it all get's down to boundaries boundaries boundaries. there are varying degrees of boundaries.  severing contact is still a boundary.  (not one to take lightly, but sometimes it is the only option.)

 

[VeteranMom]

I've heard mention of the book Boundaries in this thread- excellent book.  Also, the book Safe People: How to Find Relationships That Are Good for You and Avoid Those That Aren't is wonderful for helping people understand safe vs unsafe relationships.  It's changed the way I look at relationships and myself.  It's no longer about the person who behaves badly.  It's about what I can control- me, my reaction, and the boundaries I've put in place for the relationship.  It's Christian based.   

[zoobie]

Remove money from the equation. Don't ask or expect.

 

Now if they're still behaving like donkey's behinds, limit contact. You have every right to surround yourself and your family with people who love and respect you and filter out those who do not.

[Tiramisu]

Well, Shannon. I remembered I cut my father out of my life. I guess I did it so effectively that I didn't even remember when I first replied. Besides a very disturbing history, knowing I was religious, he tried to use the Bible to manipulate me for his own ends. After that I was very okay in not having further contact with him, though I did get the advice of a trustworthy priest to make sure I wasn't violating the commandment regarding honoring our parents. When he had an accident and was in the hospital, I heard about it and not being sure he would make it, I called him to let him know I forgive him. He did not acknowledge the past or ask for forgiveness, but at least I tried. We haven't had any contact since then but my conscience is clear.

[shanvan]

it get's down to helping them understand the difference between abuse, and even "plain" obnoxiousness. 

I focused on helping my children to love each other and feel loved without having to compete against each other.  they are now adults, and the relationships are all good - even with the normal irritations.  My kids eventually were against contact with some of the more trying personalities and wanting to have holidays without them.

and when dealing with someone who is just awkward, etc. it's teaching to give the benefit of the doubt that the person didn't "mean it like that".

This is what I am mostly talking about--when to give benefit of the doubt.  My Dc notice the grandparent's behavior and can even predict it at times.  Sometimes I feel like I should protect their relationship with their grandparents.  I know it's really up to my in-laws what type of relationship they have, but how we talk to Dc about the ils does have an affect on Dc's thinking.  I still want my Dc to be respectful even if their contact is superficial.  I suspect Dh feels rejected and somehow wants his parents to right their wrongs.  

 

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses.  I can see there are families in various degrees of separation being posted about and for some it's no contact at all, but then for others the situation is more delicate and how you speak about it to your children can be tricky.  Seems like we are already doing what we can.  

 

A WTM'er Pm'd me bout school supplies saying she had extra.  Wasn't that nice?  We are okay now and we managed to accumulate enough notebooks etc, from friends and sales.   

[gardenmom5]

This is what I am mostly talking about--when to give benefit of the doubt. 

 

if it's someone they don't know well - give the benefit of the doubt.

if it's a family member you know to be abusive - consider the source and they are just giving more evidence to the diagnosis of abusive behavior, .

if it's a family member who is unpredictable, but not generally known to be abusive - give the benefit of the doubt that they are most likely socially awkward. (or just self-centered/obnoxious and you can safely ignore them)

 

 

eta: my mil is frequently obnoxious - though occasionally abusive. (always has been.)  since we don't have much contact we mostly see the obnoxious stuff.  my sil insists it's all abusive.  it isn't.

[Tammi K]

We have almost the same situation with my mother. All the other grandchildren where her 'babies' while mine were ignored. In our case it was easy to figure out why. My siblings continued to depend on my mother for child care and free baby sitting service - which came at a high price. My mother was forever able to tell them how to raise their children. They never argued because the loss of free services was too great.

 

One day about a year before dh and I married, we happened to run into him at a local store. He was paying for his purchase and wanted to pay the $.00 portion in coins so as to not break another bill. He was short $.05 so my mother handed him a nickle. For YEARS she would drag up the story about how we shouldn't feel too good about ourselves because when she first met him he didn't have two nickles to rub together. She even shared the story at work - where his sister was also employed.

 

Same thing as the OP with ball games. etc.  My nephew is a pretty good baseball player. She saw every single one of his games. My dd had played Dorothy in Wizard of Oz. My mom came but showed up 45 minutes late and then complained about missing the show. I could go on and on but OP has probably lived it so no need to mention it. :tongue_smilie:

 

So, I get it.  When we finally broke contact I spoke with the kids and told them that "over the years Nana had a really difficult time treating some people nicely. Unfortunately, we were the people she chose to treat poorly. We can't be responsible for the way people behave but what we can do is avoid putting ourselves in a position to let people continue to hurt us. I don't know if Nana loves us or if she is just angry and doesn't know how to express it. But, for now, my job is to keep you safe and try to prevent people who mean you harm from having a say in your life. When you are older if you want to speak to Nana on your own, that will be fine. Until then, Dad and I feel that it's best to protect you from the harmful things she says and does. " ( I also told my mom she was free to write to the children via me and I would share her letters if they were polite and respectful. She's NEVER once written to any of us in the last 8 years.)

 

For my kids this made sense because they were well aware of the manipulative games she plays and they respected our decision. My oldest daughters are 28 and 26 and, while we no longer live nearby, they visit family in the area frequently. My daughter tried one time. Neither have ever gone back.

[Scarlett]

 

 

One day about a year before dh and I married, we happened to run into him at a local store. He was paying for his purchase and wanted to pay the $.00 portion in coins so as to not break another bill. He was short $.05 so my mother handed him a nickle. For YEARS she would drag up the story about how we shouldn't feel too good about ourselves because when she first met him he didn't have two nickles to rub together. She even shared the story at work - where his sister was also employed.

 

 

 

 

Ugh.  This so reminded me of my former MIL.  She was CONSTANTLY telling my then husband how he wouldn't have ANYTHING or be ANYBODY if it weren't for her.  And she would go on and on listing all the things she has done for him.

 

My ds13 had not seen her in 4 years until this summer....XH took him to visit her.  Ds13 came back and said that was the longest worst 2 days of his life!  She was horrible to him.  Thankfully she means very little to him so he was able to sympathize for his dad's sake but not be hurt for his own sake. 

 

Some people are just toxic.

[shanvan]

Well, how is it that distancing yourself from abusive toxic people equals "becoming intolerant and closed off to the world"?  

In our situation it really becomes difficult to tell when the treatment is intentional and when it is just b/c in-laws are kinda clueless about how to have healthy relationships.

 

ETA: To explain my comment further.  Kids can get the wrong idea simply b/c they aren't mature enough to understand (and some adults aren't either).  The message can be that they don't have to be involved with anyone who doesn't do things their way and can start imagining bad intentions behind actions that weren't really meant to hurt.  I've known adults like that, as a matter of fact Mil can be that way.  If another family member at an event doesn't say 'hi' to her first she won't talk to them and when she is back at home she tells her story about how that person ignored her.  Sometimes the person did, but sometimes they were busy with someone else, or busy with some task and the slight wasn't intentional.  

[wonderchica]

Speaking from the other side, one of my sets of grandparents had very little to do with me. Lived very close, we saw them on Thanksgiving and Christmas. Never attended any school events, never did anything for birthdays (no card or call, let alone attend a party). I don't think they even know when my birthday is, let alone how old I am. It bothered my mother, but as a child and even now it doesn't bother me. They weren't involved, affectionate parents so I never expected them to be otherwise as grandparents. I wasn't upset or traumatized in any way, it was just the way it was.

[swellmomma]

I have been honest with my kids about why contact has been severely limited with those family members.  That the behaviour of those people is not acceptable in my family and that we don't spend time with those that hurt us or bring negative into our lives.  I feel that my kids are not learning to close off the the rest of the world, just use more descretion in who they let into their lives.  My focus on the behaviour rather than the person allows them to still care about those family members with boundaries in place.  What my kids have generally seen is that I allow 2nd and 3rd etc chances until we reach a point of no return.  In my case it is my siblings that we have severely limited contact with.  First my sister and family and as of xmas my brother in sil.  I am willing to put up with mistakes and cluelessness etc, but there is a line and they have each crossed it.  I want my kids to learn to determine in their lives where that line is for themselves and know that it is not the end of the world to limit or eliminate contact with some who crosses that line.  I don't feel it closes them off from the world at all. It shows them how to live in the world without becoming someones doormat

[OrganicAnn]

I know it is difficult, but I would try to limit contact rather than cut off contact.   I've seen both and the ones who cut off contact often regretted not going to relatives weddings, funerals etc because the person they were cutting contact with would be there.

 

Also in my DH family they have a tendency to cut contact and I've seen it go down generations.   My MIL who cut contact with her MIL, now has a daughter and son who have cut contact with her.     Where as in my family we tried to establish healthy boundaries and seem to manage better. 

 

I would also be honest with your kids, but try not to bring your baggage too.   Kids don't want to hear about every petty little slight you may have experienced over the years.   I think most people get tired of hearing the same complaints year after year.  

[Tammyla]

Limiting contact is what we have slowly moved to with mil; it began when fil was still alive.  Boundaries were put in place to ensure we could continue to have a relationship and protect our children when they were younger.  In reality it looked like we were only willing to visit here in our home or at their home, but not at big family gatherings.  Avoiding big drama esp. during the holidays is and was a blessing.   We never made any declarations, but simply (ha, funny word for it) started saying no or that is not possible and sticking to it...
 

Saying no and not giving in  was and continues to be a struggle.  She especially knows the buttons to push and will whine,  guilt, nag, demand, or throw  a major fit/meltdown to get her way.   I think she is finally coming to understand that no means no, no matter her drama. 

 

I'm sorry your holiday was that way. :grouphug:

 

 

I wanted to add, that we put up with it for years, but when my kids began to see it, I knew we had to change something.  BOUNDARIES by Cloud and Townsend is an excellent boundary setting tool.  For me it was also an ahha read.

[J-rap]

I would say to your children, "We will not be getting together with so-and-so anymore because we believe their behavior to be unkind and even harmful, and it does not support the values and respect we are trying to instill in our family."