Doctor Who Christmas Episode.

[Garga]

It made no sense. There were too many plot holes.

 

I love Doctor Who and always will, but I call a spade a spade and that episode didn't make a lick of sense.

 

And now we have to wait 8 months for the next episode.

 

Please get a new writer, Doctor Who!

[I talk to the trees]

It made no sense. There were too many plot holes.

 

I love Doctor Who and always will, but I call a spade a spade and that episode didn't make a lick of sense.

 

And now we have to wait 8 months for the next episode.

 

Please get a new writer, Doctor Who!

 

 

:iagree: I think it's time for Moffat to regenerate into someone new!

[bolt.]

Um...

 

Why didn't he just pile the people into the TARDIS and evacuate them???

[goldberry]

I think the whole thing about having The Doctor live there 300 years and get old was really distracting.  I wanted just a good, emotional goodbye.  Him being old kind of disconnected me. 

 

I'm still not sold on Peter Capaldi either.  Also, how long do they think they can keep making people wait before they lose interest?  Doesn't seem very smart to me.

[Χά�ων]

Um...

 

Why didn't he just pile the people into the TARDIS and evacuate them???

Exactly!

[Χά�ων]

8 months? I missed that. Good grief we barely got a few shows this season.

[Garga]

OP here. DH has been listening to me rant and sent me this. It's an analysis of the Christmas episode. It answers some of my questions, but then brings up ones I hadn't thought of. Basically, the episode still doesn't make sense.

 

http://io9.com/this-was-a-fitting-end-to-the-matt-smith-era-of-doctor-1489705715?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[Mergath]

Oh, good.  I thought I was going to be the only one that got to the end and said, "Um... wtf was that supposed to be?"

 

So that whole confusing plotline with River Song and the Silence and all that stuff was just some creepy alien priests who wanted to stop the Time Lords from coming back?  Really?  The Time Lords that were all supposed to be dead anyway up until the last episode?  It was all slipped in there so briefly I'm not sure if I got all that correct.  And they were genetically modified so that you forget them as soon as you look away... why, again?  And how does that fit in with all the stuff they did back in that other story arc?

 

My head hurts.  :crying:

[Mergath]

Oh, and was I the only one who thought they were hinting pretty strongly that the Mother Superior-whatsis is supposed to be some kind of reincarnation of River Song?

[Jilly]

My kids and I were so disappointed. It was a terrible episode and came up short emotionally. I felt like all of the energy was put into the 50th anniversary and this episode was just an afterthought which was too bad. Matt Smith deserved a better ending after portraying the Doctor for so many years. 

[Garga]

Oh, and was I the only one who thought they were hinting pretty strongly that the Mother Superior-whatsis is supposed to be some kind of reincarnation of River Song?

No clue! :)

[Mergath]

No clue! :)

 

Well, earlier when he was referencing River Song, he mentioned how they turned her into a psychopath.  Then later he says to Tasha Lem that she's been controlling the psychopath inside for years.  And she can fly the Tardis, but makes that comment about how she's never been able to fly the Doctor.  Not to mention that she seems to have known the doctor for years, and they kiss.  I think.  Or almost kissed.  

[goldberry]

My kids and I were so disappointed. It was a terrible episode and came up short emotionally. I felt like all of the energy was put into the 50th anniversary and this episode was just an afterthought which was too bad. Matt Smith deserved a better ending after portraying the Doctor for so many years. 

 

I think they should have had him regenerate in that episode.  That part where he said goodbye to River was a total weep-fest, I loved it.  The whole episode I was emotionally involved.  I couldn't get involved in this one.  (Ok, except when he took off the bow tie - that got me)

 

They didn't even really show the regeneration!

[goldberry]

Well, earlier when he was referencing River Song, he mentioned how they turned her into a psychopath.  Then later he says to Tasha Lem that she's been controlling the psychopath inside for years.  And she can fly the Tardis, but makes that comment about how she's never been able to fly the Doctor.  Not to mention that she seems to have known the doctor for years, and they kiss.  I think.  Or almost kissed.  

 

Ooh, nice catch!  I didn't even think about that!

[Mergath]

 

They didn't even really show the regeneration!

 

One review said it was like he was sneezed into Peter Capaldi's body. :P  That cracked me up.

[goldberry]

The episode had one good point - it was an excuse to get out our David Tennant lifesize standup. He always watches the specials with us. :001_wub:

 

We put a fez on him this time in honor of Matt Smith.

[happi duck]

This was our first time watching on Bbc america...we don't like the interruption of ads. That affected the episode for me.

[PrincessMommy]

It made no sense. There were too many plot holes.

 

I love Doctor Who and always will, but I call a spade a spade and that episode didn't make a lick of sense.

 

And now we have to wait 8 months for the next episode.

 

Please get a new writer, Doctor Who!

I'm so glad you wrote this. I thought the whole thing was a hot mess. Who thought that plot up up? We watched it as a family, and all but one of us was so annoyed and confused.

 

Honestly, if they're going to write like that we need to let the doctor go into the history books. I was so looking forward to it too, esp after the last episode. What happened BBC?!

[PrincessMommy]

OP here. DH has been listening to me rant and sent me this. It's an analysis of the Christmas episode. It answers some of my questions, but then brings up ones I hadn't thought of. Basically, the episode still doesn't make sense.

 

http://io9.com/this-was-a-fitting-end-to-the-matt-smith-era-of-doctor-1489705715?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

I think they've got a problem if those of us who watch the The Doctor faithfully need a primer for the show. 

[Word Nerd]

I clapped when Peter Capaldi appeared. Sorry to say that if I weren't curious to see him in the role, I would probably give up on the show.

[BarbecueMom]

Well, earlier when he was referencing River Song, he mentioned how they turned her into a psychopath. Then later he says to Tasha Lem that she's been controlling the psychopath inside for years. And she can fly the Tardis, but makes that comment about how she's never been able to fly the Doctor. Not to mention that she seems to have known the doctor for years, and they kiss. I think. Or almost kissed.

And it was the Papal "Mainframe". Hmm.

 

I went in with low expectations. They may not have been low enough. That regeneration scene was just, I don't even know what to describe it. I know it was hard to top the last regeneration (I still can't listen to Vale Decem without tearing up), but that was so... distracting. Once in a while, Moffat needs to just shut up his timey-wimey and let things be simple. Saying goodbye to a Doctor should be something fans can emotionally connect to without jumping through hoops.

[Word Nerd]

Well, earlier when he was referencing River Song, he mentioned how they turned her into a psychopath.  Then later he says to Tasha Lem that she's been controlling the psychopath inside for years.  And she can fly the Tardis, but makes that comment about how she's never been able to fly the Doctor.  Not to mention that she seems to have known the doctor for years, and they kiss.  I think.  Or almost kissed.  

 

This is quite a stretch, but Lem spelled backward is Mel.

[clarkacademy]

I am so confused :( So much made NO sense at all. Him growing old was just weird. The whole thing was weird. I think the new doctor will be all about bringing the time lords back or something like that. The regeneration was just odd at best. There was nothing to it. Waiting eight months is going to suck as well.

[PrincessMommy]

And it was the Papal "Mainframe". Hmm.

 

I went in with low expectations. They may not have been low enough. That regeneration scene was just, I don't even know what to describe it. I know it was hard to top the last regeneration (I still can't listen to Vale Decem without tearing up), but that was so... distracting. Once in a while, Moffat needs to just shut up his timey-wimey and let things be simple. Saying goodbye to a Doctor should be something fans can emotionally connect to without jumping through hoops.

 

I agree.  I remember on an old Doctor when he regenerated (back with UNIT) and the General came in and asked what was happening or some such.  The companion said tearily and very dramatically, "He's regenerated!!"  The General rolled his eyes and sighed, "not again."    Classic... 

 

I'm not sorry to see Matt Smith go, but they could have had a better send off and regeneration.

[Night Elf]

I was dreading watching the show because I respond so emotionally and the shows just seem too intense for me. But there was nothing to the show. I didn't even tear up at any place. Well, I did gasp when he took off the bow tie. But other than that, nothing! And what the heck was that regeneration? Why did they skip the dramatic light show? I guess because of when he was standing outside and blowing up ships? Was that his regeneration and his body just didn't change until he was back in the tardis and talked to Clara for a bit? Odd! Definitely an odd show.

[Kim in Appalachia]

I was disappointed in the episode.  I'm tired of Moffat's obsession with the age of the doctor and circular time mess.  I liked Matt Smith, but Moffat needs help in writing something with a plot.  

 

I still don't get the point of the Silence.  They want to prevent what happened, but they caused it?  They blew up the TARDIS which created the crack which created the endless war???  I was so lost. And the tons of extra commericals on BBC America didn't help either.  They dragged it out so they didn't have to cut as much, but still cut it short??  I went to bed annoyed.

 

Here's hoping the Sherlock reveal is better. :) 

[Kim in Appalachia]

This is quite a stretch, but Lem spelled backward is Mel.

 

 

Oh my goodness.  That would make sense why he kept kissing her. And why he trusted her with the key.  But honestly, I hope not.  I loved the character of River Song, but Moffat seems to be messing with that too much as well.  How would she have been there? How would she have regenerated?  Was that before she was Mel? Because we saw her go from Mel to River. And River gave up her regenerations, plus she's stuck in some computer loop in the library.   

[UnsinkableKristen]

Hmm.. I guess I'm in the minority, I loved it!  I have a pretty strong suspension of disbelief when it comes to all things Doctor, so the weird plots never bother me.  I don't like Moffat as much as I like RTD, but that is personal preference and I still like him as a show runner.

 

LOVED Capaldi's entrance and I'm super excited to see him as the Doctor. 

 

The wait isn't nearly as bad as it was between David Tennant's last regular series and Matt Smith's first episode.   We got 4 episodes over the course of what, two years?  At least there is Sherlock in the interim!! 

 

The show has gotten such a huge fan base during 11/Moffat that I'm really interested to see how things go with 12/Moffat and even more interested to see how that fan base reacts to no Moffat. 

[UnsinkableKristen]

 And the tons of extra commericals on BBC America didn't help either.  They dragged it out so they didn't have to cut as much, but still cut it short?? 

 

The commercials were MASSIVELY annothing and made the viewing experience very disjointed.  I'm looking forward to viewing it all at once! 

[BarbecueMom]

And the tons of extra commericals on BBC America didn't help either.

 

Here's hoping the Sherlock reveal is better. :)

A kitten dies every time a commercial for that Atlantis series comes on.

 

I think Gatiss wrote the first episode of Sherlock. So there's hope, lol.

[Word Nerd]

Here is something I saw on another forum that is an interesting theory: "I took it that the Papal Mainframe was the next evolution of the machine that Rivers consciousness is left in after her death in the library. She then finds some way to obtain a physical form and becomes Tasha Lem."

[Kim in Appalachia]

Here is something I saw on another forum that is an interesting theory: "I took it that the Papal Mainframe was the next evolution of the machine that Rivers consciousness is left in after her death in the library. She then finds some way to obtain a physical form and becomes Tasha Lem."

 

 

Oh, that sounds even worse. That's very convoluted. 

[bolt.]

I think the episode was a massive cover-up of what really happened.

 

Here's the real story:

 

As soon as he got the TARDIS back, the Doctor immediately reconnects the telephone and gets a call from River. The concoct a multi-hundred year plan to defeat the Daleks and steal new time energy from out-universe-gallefrey. He evacuates all the villagers and uses hologram projectors to make new people seem like the villagers.

 

He sends Clara around to former friends/companions/families and she picks them all up to help him. He knows the papal mainframe is infiltrated by Daleks, but tricks them into being slaughtered. Clara magnificently tricks the time lords into sending regeneration energy.

 

The Docor blasts all the enemies with regeneration energy, channels some to River (cleverly disguised as a towns person) and... Probably other cool stuff, like fixing Donna's brain, and making Amy & Rory all better in every way (they left New York and went back to UK on a steamship, where they were easy to retrieve)... That kind of thing.

 

The last we see of 11 was as a victorious old man shouting, "Come and get me!!!" And blasting out destruction and healing lightning from his hands as he regenerates. (Sentimental, but in a badazz way.) Clara looks for him in the TARDIS, seeing hhe discarded items, especially the bow tie. She find him flipping/digging through the wardrobe, as Capaldi, confident and pleased with himself, ready for whatever comes next. Clara is all like, "Is it really still you?" And the Doctor does something humorous and very 11 in manerism.

 

He's a bit embarrassed that River has been helping him dress. River reveals that this is her favourite Doctor, her main squeeze who can handle her and is no longer awkward and "wearing the face of a 10 year old. She's ready to say goodby to Capaldi-face, having spent many years happily married to him, in reverse.

 

(River's not dead. She's a time traveller. We need more of her. This is her timeline according to me:

Birth/childhood as Mel's Amy & 11

Attempts to kill the doctor, gives up regenerations: 11

Becomes archeologist: unrevealed

Refuses to kill the Doctor, marries the Doctor: 11

Goes to prison, rarely stays there, is released, learns to be a time "lady", has many adventures: mostly 12, some 11, various others, no 10 though.

Last date: 11

Death & Download: 10

Post-Download appearances: 11 & others)

 

Why the elaborate false episode? (Clara and Smith-face even had to fake their goodbye before they began the long plan and he got so old.) Well: Time lords! They'd have never fallen for it if they saw an episode that revealed the the entire plan broadcast from the BBC on earth in 2013! Duh!

 

Oh, and something about Jenny. Definitely something about Jenny.

[Kim in Appalachia]

Oh, and something about Jenny. Definitely something about Jenny. 

 

 

:lol: 

[mom2att]

I think the episode was a massive cover-up of what really happened.

 

Here's the real story:

The teenage Dr. Who fan who lives in my house loves your happy ending.  I don't know nearly as much about DW as she does, but it sounds good to me, too.  Definitely better than last night's episode which I fell asleep on!

[ElaineJ]

I agree! The episode was a terrible disappointment. I think most of the fans could have come up with something a lot better. Oh, well. Things are so convoluted at this point that they probably need to focus less on connecting up plotlines and more on just writing a good story that is more cognitively and emotionally satisfying, even as a stand alone piece.

Elaine

[Rosie_0801]

I agree.  I remember on an old Doctor when he regenerated (back with UNIT) and the General came in and asked what was happening or some such.  The companion said tearily and very dramatically, "He's regenerated!!"  The General rolled his eyes and sighed, "not again."    Classic... 

 

 

 

THE BRIGADIER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PrincessMommy]

THE BRIGADIER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

sorry.  I realized earlier today that I got it wrong, but figured it was much too late to fix.

[Farrar]

I just finished watching. It wasn't very good :(

 

And Capaldi sounded like someone acting the part of the Doctor, rather than being the Doctor.

 

The 11th (12th ?) deserved a better goodbye :(

 

Well, to be fair, he had like two lines and thirty whole seconds of air time.

 

I'm with everyone else.  It stunk.

 

And I relate the following conversion between myself and one 9 yo from during the episode, which I have now shared a few times around the nets...

 

Mushroom: "Can he just leave already?"

Me: "Yeah, I'd like to get to see some Peter Capaldi. But I thought you really liked Matt Smith."

Mushroom: "No, not him. The guy."

Me: "What guy?"

Mushroom: "Moffatt. Can Moffatt just leave already?"

Me: "The writer?"

Mushroom: "I think he's a little crazy. And this is no good."

[Word Nerd]

Oh, and something about Jenny. Definitely something about Jenny.

But where Jenny is, you'll also find Strax--the Jar Jar of Doctor Who. [ducking just in case--maybe that should go on the unpopular opinions thread?]

[Farrar]

But where Jenny is, you'll also find Strax--the Jar Jar of Doctor Who. [ducking just in case--maybe that should go on the unpopular opinions thread?]

 

That's funny.  I assumed that Jenny, the Doctor's sort of daughter, was meant.

[bolt.]

Yes, Jenny the Doctor's "Daughter" -- but the other Jenny, and Strax, and -- oh, just everybody was there. All of them were had complicated mission-critical parts to play. It's just that they were holographically disguised as villiagers.

 

Some of them had to take shifts watching the weeping angels just outside the villiage to keep them still. (Why else didn't the angels just sweep in and time-gobble everyone right up at some point in the episode? Seriously, I'm surprised the out-universe time lords fell for this rather obvious obfuscation. So many suspicious holes in the plot! But, hey, our Doc got what he needed. That's all that matters.)

[elfgivas]

we loved it.  we laughed. we cried.  we'll miss Matt Smith.

 

we wish helen mirren were going to be the 13th doctor.

[Word Nerd]

we loved it. we laughed. we cried. we'll miss Matt Smith.

 

we wish helen mirren were going to be the 13th doctor.

I would definitely quit watching then even though I'm a fan of hers.

[Rosie_0801]

I wish they'd ditch Clara and install a hijabi and her brother as companions, and I do like Clara. Let's have some normal people who are capable of maturing involved again. Whatever one might think of Amy, she did grow up a bit and that was nice to watch. Rose, Martha and Donna had their experiences widened and both Rose and Donna gained a bit of self esteem. Not everyone is born to keep the universe glued together. Most people are born to grow and provide a bit of realistic inspiration for others doing the same.

[mommymilkies]

I would definitely quit watching then even though I'm a fan of hers.

Why? It's been stated before that being a female is entirely possible in what has been stated about the show and by the Doctor. 

 

I wish they'd ditch Clara and install a hijabi and her brother as companions, and I do like Clara. Let's have some normal people who are capable of maturing involved again. Whatever one might think of Amy, she did grow up a bit and that was nice to watch. Rose, Martha and Donna had their experiences widened and both Rose and Donna gained a bit of self esteem. Not everyone is born to keep the universe glued together. Most people are born to grow and provide a bit of realistic inspiration for others doing the same.

I agree.  Or anyone else (Donna's grandpa? Stormageddon? Hello?).  I don't feel like Clara has much depth, personally, and I'll admit I wasn't a huge Amy fan, either. 

[Word Nerd]

Why? It's been stated before that being a female is entirely possible in what has been stated about the show and by the Doctor. 

 

 

Did Susan, Romana, or The Rani ever change from Time Ladies to Time Lords? I don't think there's any way I could not see it as jumping the shark to make the Doctor a female. (I'm sure one could argue that ship has already sailed.)

[Jenn121]

Lots of plot holes. The show has gotten so very convoluted.

 

And how did his hair go gray if it was a wig?  :sneaky2:

 

 

He had been there 300 years. It grew back.

 

 I was disappointed with it. But I do tend to suspend logic for Doctor Who. ;) 

 

I wanted more of an entrance for Capaldi. 10 and 11 immediately showed their personality after regeneration.  Capaldi's personality is that he hates the color of his kidneys?  :confused:

[ChristineP]

I really liked the episode.  My kids and dh had to explain a lot of it to me because I have not watched and retained all of the information needed to understand what was happening.

[Farrar]

Did Susan, Romana, or The Rani ever change from Time Ladies to Time Lords? I don't think there's any way I could not see it as jumping the shark to make the Doctor a female. (I'm sure one could argue that ship has already sailed.)

 

I don't know that I'd stop watching, but I agree that the way it's been presented up to this point has always seemed to imply that being male is one of the things essential to the character - like wanting to help people, having an offbeat sense of humor, being impatient with people during explanations...  It would feel like a gimmick to me at this point.

 

I wish I felt the Who love more.  My kids are at the perfect age for it.  It's so popular.  But part of me doesn't quite get where all the popularity is coming from when all I can think is that the show is so uneven now.  The whole mythology building around each companion and the way new show mythology is just built up around each little thing...  Sometimes that stuff is fun, but at this point it's beginning to look like cheap tricks.  Bigger explosions!  Stranger revelations than ever!  Every villain ever!  More romance!  Sigh.  I just feel like it should be used sparingly or it becomes meaningless.  The heart of the show should be really strong individual episodes that make you think or bend your brain a little (in a good way) or make you laugh.  But that seems to have been forgotten in the rush to make everything such a big deal.