Laurie4b Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 http://earlystart.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/20/mom-faces-charges-for-topless-photo-with-daughter/?iref=allsearch A mom was in her hot tub with her teen daughter. Both were topless. Her other daughter took a photo, and though told to delete it, posted it online. The mother is facing charges and could face jail time. Prosecutors say say she was "posing." The mom is clearly distraught in the video. I don't get the charges. I guess I think of hot tubs, sort of like saunas, as places where there is the expectation that people may not be clothed. This is certainly true in other countries. Aren't there saunas in locker rooms in the US where people of the same gender are together partially or fully unclothed? And if they are in the same family and nudity is acceptable in that family, I don't see the crime involved, especially a mom and daughters. It would probably be different if it was a cross-gender photo. Is nudity in front of your same gender kids a crime? When I grew up, there was no issue of nudity between our mom and us as teen daughters. And if we had a hot tub and any of us liked to be topless in it, I don't think it would have crossed our mind that there was anything wrong with that. I can see the daughter who took the photo and then posted it maybe being guilty of distributing child p--n because of the photo of her sister. I haven't read that it's a crime to post nude photos of adults even without their permission--just a cause for getting sued. I am having a hard time understanding what the mom did that was wrong. Does anyone else "get" that? Was she wrong because she was nude with her daughters, or is she to blame for a teenager taking a photo (which the mom told her to delete) and then posting it? What if the daughter told her mom she did delete it? What if she was kidding around posing but thought her dd had deleted it? I bet the daughter feels awful. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Wow! That's a tough one. While I do think nudity is acceptable/expected in a wide variety of places, there certainly are very strict laws on the sharing of photos of minors and (imo) they really do need to be upheld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted December 22, 2013 Author Share Posted December 22, 2013 Wow! That's a tough one. While I do think nudity is acceptable/expected in a wide variety of places, there certainly are very strict laws on the sharing of photos of minors and (imo) they really do need to be upheld. But if it's about photos of minors being shared, why is the mom and not the daughter charged? Is that common--that parents are held responsible for photo-posting crimes committed by their kids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 But if it's about photos of minors being shared, why is the mom and not the daughter charged? Is that common--that parents are held responsible for photo-posting crimes committed by their kids? I'm really not sure. My best guess is that it varies by state? In plenty of other situations (property damage, truancy, etc.) I am ultimately responsible for my kids' behavior. THIS situation is muddier, that's for sure. I can say that I absolutely don't think she should face any charges for *being topless in a hot tub with a topless daughter. But I haven't had enough coffee to even begin looking up various state laws for distributing nude photos of minors. Maybe in another hour, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom@shiloh Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I don't think she should be charged. And, I hope the dd feels awful -- that was a really stupid thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughCollie Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I don't think the mother should be charged. The prosecutor is a *****. He had a choice about whether to charge her, and decided to take the low road. If I were his boss, I'd be pretty darned irritated with him, unless of course his boss is just like him. In end the end, this twerp prosecutor will have caused her a lot of mental anguish and money for a lawyer. The charges will dropped or she will be forced into a plea bargain to avoid jail time, and then she will have a criminal record. He also heaped a whole lot of trouble into that family, that was likely already having a hard enough time dealing with the situation. I don't think the mother had poor judgment. I think she was appalled by what her DD did and totally didn't expect that. Her DD had appallingly poor judgment, and so does the prosecutor. I really dislike prosecutors who take advantage of the power of their office to prey on people for minor transgressions. This guy obviously has too much time on his hands besides being a horse's behind. Edited to add this link: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/wentzville-mom-charged-for-topless-hot-tub-photo-with-her/article_dee0d6e1-a21e-563e-b932-8f0987c73125.html I understand why the prosecutor thinks the mother used poor judgment. She should have removed the camera and deleted the picture herself, under the circumstances. Still, even with this additional info, I don't think the mother should be charged. The kid was already trouble and had had counseling, and the mom probably thought she had to show the kid that she trusted her. It's a fine line mother's walk when they have "troubled" teenagers. The photo, by the way, did not show completely bare anatomy. The prosecutor, however, thinks the photo was posed and had s*xual overtones. I still think the prosecutor is a ****. I wonder where dear old dad is? He's not publicly supporting his wife, or ex-wife, or mother of his child, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 She was topless with her own dd in her own hot tub, which appears to be in a private area (not the front yard). She wasn't taking the picture. I think the situation warrants the 13yo who took the photo getting a police visit and chat with prosecutors, but not the mom. Apparently, St. Louis is super safe and prosecutors have time and resources to devote to this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Oh for heavens sake, nothing was even showing that you can't show on network television in a lingerie ad. Nipples were not showing. Nothing illegal happened. Get over it. Bad parenting decision doesn't need to be compounded by bad prosecution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Ugh! Agree with previous posters. While my daughter and I have never even considered hoping in our hot tub topless, together or otherwise, that is a personal preference. They didn't do anything wrong. And yes, the girl should NOT have posted the photo. But I don't see how the mom should be prosecuted. Parents, be very, very wary of your child having a camera.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I'd say just be wary of cameras in general. They are everywhere. I find it utterly annoying. It's crappy to think I might be changing at the gym and some jerk decides to take a picture. I would love to like this about 1000 times...seriously, there is no privacy anymore.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I'd say just be wary of cameras in general. They are everywhere. I find it utterly annoying. It's crappy to think I might be changing at the gym and some jerk decides to take a picture. I agree. I am so sick of people taking pictures of others and posting them on Facebook. As for the case, I think it's rather ludicrous. Teens disobey parents all the time. The teen needs a stiff talking to from the family court judge, she should have to publicly apologize to her mother and sister, and maybe she should have to do some community service so she has time to think about her actions. For the mother to have a record over this is such a waste of public tax dollars that people in that community should be making the political life of the local prosecutor's office VERY uncomfortable. Really, of all the fish to catch, this mother is the big tuna? Go bust a meth lab, go prosecute the drunk that beats the kids, I can think of a lot of places those resources should be used besides this "case". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbecueMom Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 She was topless with her own dd in her own hot tub, which appears to be in a private area (not the front yard). She wasn't taking the picture. I think the situation warrants the 13yo who took the photo getting a police visit and chat with prosecutors, but not the mom. Apparently, St. Louis is super safe and prosecutors have time and resources to devote to this problem. This was Wentzville, right? I know there have been a couple child porn arrests nearby lately, and this might be the area where the Megan Meier cyberbullying suicide case happened. It might just be a knee-jerk reaction based on those incidents. The child endangerment seems far fetched to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikin' Mama Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 The mother should absolutely NOT be charged! She did nothing wrong. What an absolute waste of resources to spend any time or taxpayer money prosecuting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I agree with Rough Collie's assessment of the 'twerp prosecutor.' I thought he looked like a sanctimonious jerk in the video. I can't wait til he gets old enough to have his own teen kids. How many 50 year old mothers would want to pose for a public photo? And if the mother had leapt from the tub to grab the camera, the photo might have been a lot more revealing. Yes, I realize the prosecution is about the teen being in the pix, but still.... The dd, who has posted nude pix before, needs some help. But putting the mother in jail? No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alef Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I don't think she should be charged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. The idiot prosecutor said "...the mother used poor judgement...". Ummm....how, exactly? She did nothing wrong. What an idiot. ETA: Isn't his an elected position? If so, if there is enough outcry, I guarantee the charges will end up dropped. On the other hand, that's a pretty conservative area, so, who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine72 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Yeah since when is it illegal to sit nude in a hot tub in your own damn home? Allowing your 14 child to pose nude for a photograph is what is illegal. I think that is what this case will boil down to, whether or not the pictures were posed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Completely stupid and ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 No, for all the reasons already mentioned. Our legal system is becoming more asinine by the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Actually, I agree, it doesn't appear that the intention was to pose nude. This may become the legal issue this case is decided on. I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. But it looks like, from what the story says (worked in media and I know stories can woefully mis-represent what happened, though) that they were just hanging out in the hot tub, not posing, and the other daughter took the photo without permission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine72 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 So if someone takes a picture of my child while bathing, I allowed him/her to pose nude? I'm not getting that leap in reasoning. The Prosecutor has said that it was clear that this was a posed picture. That is the reason for the charges. I have no idea if the charges are warranted without knowing all the details of the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted December 22, 2013 Author Share Posted December 22, 2013 The Prosecutor has said that it was clear that this was a posed picture. That is the reason for the charges. I have no idea if the charges are warranted without knowing all the details of the case. See, I don't even know if whether it was posed should be an issue. It was a mom and her kids. If she was posting it on Craigslist, then yeah. Or shopping it around. But just goofing around? With her own kids? People can "pose" and not expect a photo to be taken. I've done that with grouchy faces or something and then said, Hey! Don't take that! I didn't know if I was just not "getting" this or what, but it sounds like others feel the same way. 13 year old should be in some kind of trouble, but not life-changing. I just can't see it for the mom--at least not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 No. 13yo needs a warning and that is enough. I guarantee this family has been punished enough at this point. And, who was actually harmed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 It's a scary world when they try to criminalize families for joking around in private spaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I guess when my daughters streak and giggle through the house at bath time I should make sure there's no fuzz around .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I've heard about folks being busted for child porn for receiving nude pictures on their phones unsolicited. The case I heard about was a teenage boy, possibly eighteen but still in HS, who received an unsolicited nude photo of another teenager. In fact, I think the photo was sent to several boys, but the person who told me about knew one of them personally. Given the high stakes of having a se* offender label, I think these situations are handled both too aggressively (for unsolicited or unintentional violations) and not aggressively enough at times (teachers who have sex with HS kids getting a slap on the wrist). It's like the zero tolerance policy about weapons on school grounds--some honors student accidentally leaves a paring knife in the car and drives it to school, gets suspended, and isn't allowed to graduate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I hate the lack of common sense in the world today. Even if it was posed, if the mom thought the kid was going to delete it, then... what? It's illegal to be in a private space with one's own kids with your top off? I think we'll need to arrest most every single person from history as a pervert if that's the case. And otherwise, it was just a bad judgement thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggieamy Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Oh geez. I'm glad that prosecutor hasn't seen my extensive collection of naked baby in the bath pictures I have on my computer. My babies are TOPLESS in all the pictures. Sometimes there's bubbles that hide the nakedness but sometimes not. I'd probably be going to prison for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 You know, while the daughter may have been trying to do something inappropriately s*xual by posting (though, really, it sounds like it was just being an idiot teen), things like this really bother me because it assumes that there must be a s*xual reason that the mom is half nude with her own daughter. Um, no. Ew. Just normal human behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 The Prosecutor has said that it was clear that this was a posed picture. That is the reason for the charges. I have no idea if the charges are warranted without knowing all the details of the case. So if the girl posed, it's a problem. If she did the same thing not knowing a camera was around but someone took the picture, then that is not a problem? Posing doesn't change that a naked picture was taken and it's really hard to prove. Stupid laws beget stupid enforcement. *smh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Kids do stupid things. It isn't always the mom's fault. My kids visit a home where there is a special needs adult who is somewhat computer savvy, but does not understand a lot of things. My kids came home and told me that said special needs adult took photos of their butts while they were changing their clothes. I don't know if this is actually true; we called that person's mom and she swears there was no such photo on the digital camera. But if there had been and it got posted on a facebook page, was a crime committed? And if so, who is going to jail? The people who are not capable of understanding that this is more than just silly behavior in the eyes of the law? The mother of that house, who did not know it was going on? Me, because the butts belong to my girls? I mean, come on. Sometimes law enforcement needs to just give a warning and let it go. (For the record, said special needs adult is no longer allowed alone with my kids, because that is completely inappropriate and who knows what might be next. But that is a matter of prevention, not crime.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I'm still not convinced that it's a crime to pose for a photo in the presence of only same-sex family members. What law does it offend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 No, she should not be charged. And what a stupid waste of tax payer funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I'm still not convinced that it's a crime to pose for a photo in the presence of only same-sex family members. What law does it offend? It's because they are a minor. But truth is it shouldn't matter if they posed or not. Homosexuals get off on porn too I would think? I just think "posing" is a stupid litmus bc wth can determine what that even means? Is it the posing that's illegal or the naked photo? What about paintings of nude children? Or sculptures? Ugh. See? Stupid law. And I'm certainly very anti-child pornography. But I have a difficult time thinking all nudity is pornography or that a 17 year is a child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Boobs are simply not all that exciting. The prosecutor needs to find some meth dealers or child abusers and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 It is completely, totally ridiculous. There are plenty of situations where a 17 year old might be appropriately nude or partially nude with other people. It isn't okay to take photos of people in such situations and distribute them. But, the mom isn't the one who did that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillian Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 What about nudists? There are several nudist colonies in the US, those children are naked with their parents all the time. I bet they have photos too that are posed. Seriously not a huge huge deal imo in this case. the mother didn't take the picture. her minor child did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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