............

[TeacherZee]

Okay, I've been managing to happily stay out of this and just "like" a couple of the posts I agree with... but now you've brought in etymology!

 

May I ask which languages refer to Christmas by a derivative of Yule?  The only two Germanic languages I speak don't, but there are lots I don't speak. :)  I looked up the etymology of Weihnachten (German), and it said that the "weih" meant "hallowed/holy", so it meant "holy nights", and that that it had also been used to refer to holy days around the solstice before Christianity - but it doesn't derive from "yule".

 

All the Latin-based languages I know of use some form of "birth" (Navidad/Noel/Natale) to refer to Christmas.

 

Is it the Scandinavian languages you're referring to?  (I don't give a hoot from a religious perspective - I just love etymology ;) )

 

Yup it is the Scandinavian languages. In Swedish the word is jul, as is the Danish. In Norwegian it is jul or jol. Finnish which is hard to place in any category has joulu.

 

I love etymology too. So much that I made my seniors write short biographies of words this year :)

[Laura Corin]

I wished my public school students a Merry Christmas today. And last week we listened to songs that all mentioned God during the St Lucia performance*. No one here gets their knickers in a twist and I live in a very secular country.

 

It's one of the paradoxes that I've noticed before, that the UK has a state religion but is generally very relaxed about religion.  People practise or they don't - it's largely a private matter.  Overt religiosity, or for that matter ranting atheism, are considered.... a bit pushy, I think.  Most schools celebrate all possible religious festivals of every religion that might be represented in the school.  The agnostics/atheists get a good cultural grounding.  It's not a bit deal.

 

L

[Slartibartfast]

We had one very much like it, set on a mantel covered with cotton batting snow, winter wonderlands and Hummels all around.

 

My ass would be grass if the dinosaurs were ravaging the Hummels.

[Mbelle]

I don't watch TV news, so I don't know what they are saying.  I only read my news on the computer and I haven't read about any war on Christmas.

 

I am a Christian and a slightly left leaning person, with a few right leaning things here and there.  We are a weekly church attending and daily evening family prayers type family.  I think there are many secular facets of Christmas that have emerged.  Especially consumer oriented activities.  We do buy gifts and exchange them.  We do have a big Christmas dinner with the extended family. I do enjoy (mostly;) having a good excuse to see extended family members.  I/dh do really focus on the birth of Christ and we do attend church and that is our real Christmas celebration.  

 

We do have most family members either as non believers or non practicing Christian.  At times they have been put out by our church attendance getting in the way of celebrating "Christmas".  In fact some have gotten downright agro about it.   At dh family we almost feel unwelcome to attend church.  We do not make  any big deal out of it, we just go. We do not ask them to go and we don't talk about it.  

 

I see this as becoming a larger problem and I think worrying about whether or not people say Merry Christmas is not important.  I agree with above posts about consumer oriented behaviour of us as Christians being a bigger problem.

[Caroline]

My ass would be grass if the dinosaurs were ravaging the Hummels.

 

After my kids and I visit my mom's, her friends all know I have been there. "Has Caroline been here? All the breakables have been moved up a few shelves." I have the youngest grandkids.

 

And my mom has that nativity, too. However, we never added any Hummels to it. There were things added over the years. My dad would not let us add a little drummer boy, though.

[Mom in High Heels]

I send a lot and don't get many.  It all evens out.  I love sending Christmas cards. 

 

And all the not-Christmas cards I get?  They go on my mantlepiece, just like you do with your Christmas ones.  I am so happy to be loved by anyone who can work up the energy.

 

I don't send them out.  Some people (*cough*mom*cough) say it's because I'm lazy, but *I* say I'm simply being environmentally friendly.  They're going to end up in the rubbish after the holidays (though some will no doubt go into the recycling), and I can't have that on my conscious.  :)

 

So, this is an interesting thing. The Irving Berlin song "Happy Holidays" was composed in 1941. Obviously, then, "happy holidays" would be something that has been in use his entire life...

 

It's interesting to me that 70-odd years later, it becomes a symbol of "what is wrong with society", especially when those "glory days" he longs for (I assume the 1940s-50s of his childhood fell in after it.

 

First off, Redsquirrel, that was a thoughtful post, and I think it applies to my dad too.  He's gone all religious militant as he's gotten older, and I think the diversity thing is difficult for him too.  I tell him he's become the crotchety old man he probably made fun of when he was a teen.  

 

Laxmom, the song "Happy Holidays" first appeared in my absolute favorite holiday movie, Holiday Inn, which incidentally, is there the hotel chain got its name.  Hearing Bing Crosby and Marjorie Reynolds sing it just makes me so happy.  If anyone has never seen Holiday Inn, it's the original movie that the song White Christmas was written for.  It also covers all the holidays, including a now controversial black face routine for Lincoln's birthday.  Sigh.  All the songs, including Happy Holidays, White Christmas and Easter Parade, were written by a Jewish man (Irving Berlin).  The irony is not lost on me.  It's also far, far superior (IMO) than the movie White Christmas.  It's much funnier, has better song and dance numbers, and doesn't have that woman with the ridiculously slim waist (that cannot be natural!).  If you've never seen it, I highly recommend you watch it.  James Bond and I watch it every year on Christmas Eve after the kids go to bed.  

 

Just want to clarify that, as a pagan, I am not "worshiping" the tree.  We bring evergreens and holly into the house this time of year as a reminder of those things that stay green and alive through the darkest, coldest days of winter.  It's a celebration of the fact that the winter solstice means warmer, sunny days ahead.  FTR we don't "worship" anything-- we're just celebrating the change of seasons and cyclical nature of life.  (Obviously I don't speak for all pagans.)

 

/end hijack :)

 

Great post.  No one worships the tree.  That's just silly.  It's simply a reminder that the world doesn't go entirely dark in the winter and that there are brighter days to come.

[Catwoman]

Believe it or not, I hesitated quite a bit! My first thought was this:

 

 

 

 

Maybe it's just me, but I think those billboards are stupid, pointless, and utterly useless. I'm not offended; I just think they are a waste of valuable billboard space that could otherwise be more helpfully used to sell me a new car or advertise that a furniture store is going out of business and I can save up to 70% on everything in the store.

 

Other than maybe her mom and dad, who really cares what Brooke Byrd thinks about anything? 

 

Although clearly, she is someone to be revered and respected, what with being a highly regarded VOLUNTEER and all... :rolleyes:

 

Dear old Brooke can believe whatever she wants, but I can't imagine how her opinion would have even the slightest effect on anyone else. Ever.

[nmoira]

Maybe it's just me, but I think those billboards are stupid, pointless, and utterly useless. I'm not offended; I just think they are a waste of valuable billboard space that could otherwise be more helpfully used to sell me a new car or advertise that a furniture store is going out of business and I can save up to 70% on everything in the store.

 

Other than maybe her mom and dad, who really cares what Brooke Byrd thinks about anything?

 

Although clearly, she is someone to be revered and respected, what with being a highly regarded VOLUNTEER and all... :rolleyes:

 

Dear old Brooke can believe whatever she wants, but I can't imagine how her opinion would have even the slightest effect on anyone else. Ever.

Roll all you like, but part of the idea is to show that atheists are just ordinary, everyday people who do ordinary, everyday things like volunteer or work as, say, a bank teller. If you look at the statistics, atheists are judged very harshly in the US relative to those of faith.

[Catwoman]

Roll all you like, but part of the idea is to show that atheists are just ordinary, everyday people who do ordinary, everyday things like volunteer or work as, say, a bank teller. If you look at the statistics, atheists are judged very harshly in the US relative to those of faith.

 

I still fail to see how seeing this unknown woman's picture on a billboard would have the slightest impact on how I feel about atheists. I truly don't care one way or another what this Brooke person believes, nor do I care what anyone else believes. It has absolutely nothing to do with me. People are either nice or they aren't nice. That's all I care about. 

 

It's teribly unfortunate that anyone judges people based on their religion or their lack of religion, but I honestly don't think an unknown person's photo on a billboard is going to change anyone's opinion. If anything, those who feel negatively about atheists will dig their heels in even deeper because they don't like having Brooke and her message shoved into their faces on a giant billboard -- in the same way that many of us get offended by some of the supposedly religious billboards.

[nmoira]

I still fail to see how seeing this unknown woman's picture on a billboard would have the slightest impact on how I feel about atheists. I truly don't care one way or another what this Brooke person believes, nor do I care what anyone else believes. It has absolutely nothing to do with me. People are either nice or they aren't nice. That's all I care about.

But you aren't everyone.

[Mrs Mungo]

Believe it or not, I hesitated quite a bit! My first thought was this:

 

 

http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news/news-sacramento/55-atheist-billboards-to-be-unveiled-in-sacramento-region/-/12969376/23236942/-/dljgaq/-/index.html

This is an imperative sentence. Therefore, it is recruiting/proselytizing, not merely encouraging those who already share the same belief. Aside from which, can't people believe in God *and* people?

[Ipsey]

Maybe it's just me, but I think those billboards are stupid, pointless, and utterly useless. I'm not offended; I just think they are a waste of valuable billboard space that could otherwise be more helpfully used to sell me a new car or advertise that a furniture store is going out of business and I can save up to 70% on everything in the store.

 

Other than maybe her mom and dad, who really cares what Brooke Byrd thinks about anything? 

 

Although clearly, she is someone to be revered and respected, what with being a highly regarded VOLUNTEER and all... :rolleyes:

 

Dear old Brooke can believe whatever she wants, but I can't imagine how her opinion would have even the slightest effect on anyone else. Ever.

 I like these billboards because it helps dispel a stereotype.

Where I grew up everyone believed in God, at least, I thought they did. Oh, except for the people on drugs or the criminals, or people with lots of tattoos or no education. I thought atheists were really quite bad people, not just "everyday" people. 

 

Putting a face on atheists is, I think, a good thing. It might reach people like me, who were taught to be afraid of atheists, who were given to understand atheists were frightening and dangerous, but to see decent "normal" people who don't believe in gods might be less afraid, and less willing to believe negative things . . . or even to be less afraid of their own unbelief.

 

For some people, however, maybe it's moot. Maybe everyone these days knows and loves atheists and doesn't need to be shown that they aren't evil.  I tend to doubt it, but hopefully these images will be truly unnecessary one day.

[Mrs Mungo]

Maybe everyone these days knows and loves atheists and doesn't need to be shown that they aren't evil.  I tend to doubt it, but hopefully these images will be truly unnecessary one day.

Maybe you should take a poll. My family certainly knows and loves people who are atheists.

[Χά�ων]

I still fail to see how seeing this unknown woman's picture on a billboard would have the slightest impact on how I feel about atheists. I truly don't care one way or another what this Brooke person believes, nor do I care what anyone else believes. It has absolutely nothing to do with me. People are either nice or they aren't nice. That's all I care about. 

.

 

I wish more people here had this view.

 

[LucyStoner]

I can't count the number of times I see religious billboards or large signage in a single month. I can count on my hands the number of athiest themed billboards I have ever seen. Seriously, people have the right to express themselves. Even on large signs with questionable design elements. I am not offended by those Mormon billboards that were everywhere in ~2012 at all even though I immediately suspected it was connected to politics. I don't see why the same or similar from non-religious people would be a problem. Unless you are unwilling to call anyone's spiritual beliefs myths I don't think it's legit to be upset when others identify your beliefs as myths. I bet most people call plenty of fantastical/supernatural things outside their personal beliefs myths.

 

My only issue with that you know it's a myth billboard is that whoever designed it got paid too much. That is one poorly laid out billboard.

[nmoira]

This is an imperative sentence. Therefore, it is recruiting/proselytizing, not merely encouraging those who already share the same belief. Aside from which, can't people believe in God *and* people?

 

Even if it is, so what? I pass churches with sometimes provocative posted light-up signs, guys downtown and at transit centers on soapboxes spouting Bible verses and exhorting me to get saved. Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door; Mormons come to my door; representatives from the multitude of neighborhood churches and temples come to my door. I'm not going to get bent out of shape or apologize for the rare billboard that might go up from some organization I'm not affiliated with. I don't care. Why single these out when they are so very much the exception we can only post and repost a small handful of images in this entire country? 

 

Has an atheist ever come to your house in an effort to win you over? Hand you tracts? Invite you... I dunno... to a coffee shop or a bookstore on a Sunday morning instead of a church? Ever?

 

Get back to me when "Godless" isn't used an epithet.

[DragonFaerie]

This is an imperative sentence. Therefore, it is recruiting/proselytizing, not merely encouraging those who already share the same belief. Aside from which, can't people believe in God *and* people?

 

Actually, it's an incomplete sentence lacking a subject (as evidenced by the missing opening quotation marks and lack of a capital letter).  The subject of the sentence could be "I" which then makes it simply declarative.

[unfrumpable.]

I still fail to see how seeing this unknown woman's picture on a billboard would have the slightest impact on how I feel about atheists. I truly don't care one way or another what this Brooke person believes, nor do I care what anyone else believes. It has absolutely nothing to do with me. People are either nice or they aren't nice. That's all I care about. 

 

It's teribly unfortunate that anyone judges people based on their religion or their lack of religion, but I honestly don't think an unknown person's photo on a billboard is going to change anyone's opinion. If anything, those who feel negatively about atheists will dig their heels in even deeper because they don't like having Brooke and her message shoved into their faces on a giant billboard -- in the same way that many of us get offended by some of the supposedly religious billboards.

 

IMO, the billboard is not supposed to make anyone feel differently about atheists. It is supposed to let those who are already atheist or leaning that way, or confused or whatever, know that they are not alone. It's like the billboard is saying, "Hey look! There are others out here who are the same as you! It's not all bad if you don't have a faith!" And that can be a very good feeling to have for someone who's feeling alone or battered down while adrift with those who do have faith and do look down on those who are without faith.

[milovany]

Get back to me when "Godless" isn't used an epithet.

 

That'll probably when Jesus Christ and goshdarnit* aren't used a curse words. 

 

 

*thinking of the R-rated version; I'm not comfortable typing it given the choice

[nmoira]

Actually, it's an incomplete sentence lacking a subject (as evidenced by the missing opening quotation marks and lack of a capital letter). The subject of the sentence could be "I" which then makes it simply declarative.

This is indeed the case. The are 55 similar billboards in the Sacramento area.

 

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/12/02/sacramento-group-posting-55-billboards-to-help-nonbelievers-come-out/

[nmoira]

That'll probably when Jesus Christ and goshdarnit* aren't used a curse words.

 

 

*thinking of the R-rated version; I'm not comfortable typing it given the choice

"Godless" (ETA: fixed the typo) as an epithet refers to a person or people, and is regularly used as such in the US. The examples you cite are far from exclusive to non-Christians.

[Catwoman]

Other young people who are worried about coming out in their communities as atheists. Their parents. Their friends. Community leaders.

The message is 'atheists aren t scary, they're just like you and me. Let them be already! You can still be a good person and not believe in God'.

My city, your city - we don't need the message. Got it already, thanks. (Also, I hate billboards).

There are, sadly, places that do need the message.

I guess I don't really understand why anyone feels the need to "come out" as an atheist.

 

I have never felt the need to tell anyone what I do or don't believe. It's my business, not anyone else's.

[SKL]

It strikes me as strange that someone would advertise to increase the atheist fold.  To me, that's all about caring what other people believe.  While expecting that nobody should care what you believe.

 

If I don't believe in something, I simply don't believe.  I don't have to make a declaration, because who cares?  And if I am not sure, I'm not sure.  I can't imagine that anyone really cares.  OK, the pastors of my church might care a little bit, except that I'm sure they have bigger crises to worry about, such as their own family problems etc.  My mom and dad might care, although to be honest, I don't believe they are 100% on the stuff I was taught either.  It's 100% personal in my opinion.  If *I* want to go listen to another person's opinion, that's what they have churches, temples, etc. for.  I can find them.  So yes, have a sign outside, take out an ad in the phone book and on the internet so people shopping for that can find you.  That is enough.

 

Where I live, billboards about religion are rare.  You will see them once in a while, but it's just not a hellfire and damnation kind of town.  So that probably colors my opinion.

[nmoira]

I guess I don't really understand why anyone feels the need to "come out" as an atheist.

 

I have never felt the need to tell anyone what I do or don't believe. It's my business, not anyone else's.

You are not everyone. :)

 

I'm sure there are places online where you can read about the experiences of those who "came out" in less fortunate circumstances than yours. I'm lucky in that I have no unpleasant story to share in that respect.

[albeto.]

Maybe it's just me, but I think those billboards are stupid, pointless, and utterly useless. I'm not offended; I just think they are a waste of valuable billboard space that could otherwise be more helpfully used to sell me a new car or advertise that a furniture store is going out of business and I can save up to 70% on everything in the store.

 

Other than maybe her mom and dad, who really cares what Brooke Byrd thinks about anything? 

 

Although clearly, she is someone to be revered and respected, what with being a highly regarded VOLUNTEER and all... :rolleyes:

 

Dear old Brooke can believe whatever she wants, but I can't imagine how her opinion would have even the slightest effect on anyone else. Ever.

 

This is one of 55 billboards being put up around the city of Sacramento, CA this month. It's caught some national attention for this very reason - why bother, who cares, so what, etc. There's also the other side - why are you throwing your beliefs [*cough*] into my face and the nation is going to hell in a handbasket and people are glorifying the rejection of Christ the savior. I suspect the other side isn't so very prevalent around Sacramento, but can you imagine these signs in Alabama? Mississippi? Arkansas? (Btw, these states still have formal legislation banning atheists from political office.) Because of the internet, we're closing in the boundaries between our boarders, and so signs up in Sacramento make a difference in Mobile. It opens the conversation to things that affect all of us, like the claim that one cannot have morals without believing in God, or the danger of supporting legislation based on religious belief rather than information and rational understanding, or the concept that one's beliefs might contribute to those very values they advocate against. "Dear old Brooke" is not convincing herself to have faith that things that don't make sense are somehow better than things that do make sense. "Dear old Brooke" is putting her face out there to take the mockery and ridicule so others won't have to when they make the statement that they believe in humanity, not god. "Dear old Brooke" is being vocal about the advancement and value of knowledge over faith, much to the annoyance of people who want people like "Dear old Brooke" to just keep it to herself, ignorant to the irony of the double standard here.

 

I suspect this is the kind of thing that contributes to the so-called "war on Christmas" that no one but Stacey here can relate to, but nevertheless inspires some real fear in millions of other Christians. This is the kind of fear that empowers university professors to teach "Homosexual Activists" are "doing to Christians" what the "Nazis used to do to the Jews." It inspires journalists to suggest Gay Marriage Is A Satanic Plot To Murder Christians (I know, right?). It rationalizes fear of a secretly Muslim Obama.

 

I don't know why one billboard is expected to make a difference when one scary claim about non Christians isn't expected to make a difference. But being humans, we add together these pieces and we try and figure out what the puzzle is going to look like. Some people are more prone to find a conspiracy in that puzzle. Religious people will see a conspiracy seems to confirm the warnings provided through their beliefs (this "war"). That's not to say only religious people see conspiracies, or the only conspiracies are religious. Believing in conspiracies is more common than you might think, it's a byproduct of our intelligent brain, and is partially responsible for us getting here. Besides, conspiracies do exist.

 

So while we may not share these conspiracy theories, and we may not share the fear, we shouldn't assume others don't as well. There's quite an established record of Christians who really and genuinely do believe there is a subtle (or not so subtle) conspiracy to squeeze Jesus out of our society. It comes up at Christmastime I suspect, because the Christian religion is in the spot light in such a way it doesn't get the rest of the year. Again, I don't know if it's so much a "war on" as a "rebellion against," and "Dear old Brooke" is just the latest rebel. 

[SKL]

Edited:  Never mind, that went over like a lead balloon....

[Julie Smith]

This thread showed up right beside someone asking about books in the Ender game series.

 

One of the short stories in the series is called, "A war of gifts". It's about kids on a space station being trainned to be commanders to save the human race from aliens. It is such a uplifting and tear jerking Christmas story and I recommend it.

[Word Nerd]

Actually, it's an incomplete sentence lacking a subject (as evidenced by the missing opening quotation marks and lack of a capital letter).  The subject of the sentence could be "I" which then makes it simply declarative.

 

It drives me crazy! I wish I could take a giant red pen to that billboard.

[Χά�ων]

But dare say you don't believe in global warming .... :leaving:

What does science have to do with this discussion?

[albeto.]

I guess I don't really understand why anyone feels the need to "come out" as an atheist.

 

I have never felt the need to tell anyone what I do or don't believe. It's my business, not anyone else's.

 

Atheists are one of the most disliked groups in America. In a recent study, criminals were seen comparably representative of atheists and rapists but not representative of Christians, Muslims, Jewish people, feminists, or homosexuals. Atheism is a social taboo that is being openly and publicly challenged by some, but not all atheists. This natural disgust the brain interprets for taboo issues (like incest for example - most of us have a natural aversion to such a concept, choosing to do just about anything else to avoid thinking about it for too long) is culturally targeted at atheists in many religious subcultures. Exposing this as not being worthy of taboo is beneficial to all of us. As it stands, in the United States, we're not there yet. Not everyone is as tolerant and unimpressed with the whole issue as you are. I'm glad you are, genuinely, for a variety of reasons, and I know you don't stand alone in that. I also know that regardless of your lack of familiarity with the other side of the spectrum, it does very much exist. It's an issue I think people should be familiar with, not dismiss because of a lack of personal experience. I don't have a personal experience being marginalized as a lesbian or a woman of color, but I don't doubt it exists outside my awareness. 

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

But dare say you don't believe in global warming ....  :leaving:

 

Now, mixing up your science and theology is a bit like seeing a proctologist for a brain tumor.  You can do it, but don't expect stellar results.

[milovany]

"Godless" (ETA: fixed the typo) as an epithet refers to a person or people, and is regularly used as such in the US. The examples you cite are far from exclusive to non-Christians.

I wasn't attempting some brilliant logical argument. ;) Just saying it's not likely either will happen soon. People can be mean whether derisively calling people names or using the name of one some consider a deity to curse.

[nmoira]

It drives me crazy! I wish I could take a giant red pen to that billboard.

I think it's just the way the picture is cropped.

[SKL]

What does science have to do with this discussion?

 

I guess it depends whom you ask.

 

I just thought I'd point out that there are many non-believers in secular beliefs.  And some of the same people here wanting atheists to be able to freely express their non-belief (without negative backlash) are not so ready to extend the same courtesy to other types of non-believers.  (Based on historical discussions on WTM.)

 

"To each his own" is supposed to go both ways.

[SKL]

Now, mixing up your science and theology is a bit like seeing a proctologist for a brain tumor.  You can do it, but don't expect stellar results.

 

I guess if I'd said Darwinist evolution it would have been closer to the religion discussion... either one gets the same reaction from certain people....

 

[SKL]

I think the "believe in humanity" billboard says what it says.

 

Unless of course the word "I" is actually on the billboard and a photographer was messing around.

[albeto.]

 And some of the same people here wanting atheists to be able to freely express their non-belief (without negative backlash) are not so ready to extend the same courtesy to other types of non-believers. 

 

Who are you accusing, here? And is it relevant to this thread in particular?

 

I guess if I'd said Darwinist evolution it would have been closer to the religion discussion... either one gets the same reaction from certain people....

 

These  roundabout comments aren't making any sense to me. Can you explain what you're trying to say just straight up?

[SKL]

Don't get me wrong - I don't want to see denier billboards about any belief - it seems all seems a bit ridiculous to me.  Just saying that if the concern is people expressing disbelief without backlash - and I'm on board with that - it should be a cultural reality that applies to everyone.  Not a political correctness thing that applies to select groups.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

I guess if I'd said Darwinist evolution it would have been closer to the religion discussion... either one gets the same reaction from certain people....

 

 

Mixing up evolution and theology is like going to the podiatrist for a brain tumor -- you're even farther off target.

[albeto.]

Don't get me wrong - I don't want to see denier billboards about any belief - it seems all seems a bit ridiculous to me.  Just saying that if the concern is people expressing disbelief without backlash - and I'm on board with that - it should be a cultural reality that applies to everyone.  Not a political correctness thing that applies to select groups.

 

This post directly follows my questions to you. Is this a reply to my questions?

[SKL]

I'm trying to get at the spirit of tolerance for diversity of view.  It is a positive goal or an excuse to fuel a negative campaign?  I'm sure it varies from individual to individual.

[nmoira]

Every billboard can be seen here (needs Flash):

 

http://ffrf.org/news/news-releases/item/19499-ffrf-sponsors-%E2%80%9Cnon-sacramental%E2%80%9D-billboard-blitz-in-sacramento

[Catwoman]

Mixing up evolution and theology is like going to the podiatrist for a brain tumor -- you're even farther off target.

I'm not SKL so I could be entirely mistaken, but I think she was just pointing out that there are certain hot-button issues and topics that get the same response from the same people, over and over again.

[SKL]

This post directly follows my questions to you. Is this a reply to my questions?

 

No, it takes me a little time to type and others were posting in between.  I did not quote you and therefore it was not a direct response to you.

[nmoira]

I'm not SKL so I could be entirely mistaken, but I think she was just pointing out that there are certain hot-button issues and topics that get the same response from the same people, over and over again.

And it's helpful to lob them into a potentially contentious (but so far self-regulating) thread rather than stating that? I'd rather just pretend it didn't happen, and I'll now go back to doing so. :)

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

I'm not SKL so I could be entirely mistaken, but I think she was just pointing out that there are certain hot-button issues and topics that get the same response from the same people, over and over again.

 

 

This, I will buy.

[SKL]

SKL is saying that if we atheists (anyone who posted in favour of gas hikes) think atheists should be able to express their opinions without fuss then climate change deniers (anyone who posted against gas hikes) should be able to express their opinions without fuss

 

You got the concept, but not the right reference.  I thought the gas hike thread was about running out of fossil fuels, not climate change ....

 

Point is that tolerance for diversity of thought is a lovely idea.  If one really believes in it, one will practice it as well as preach it.  If one (or a group) has a pattern of not practicing it, it becomes difficult to accept that this ideal is really what is motivating the movement at hand.

 

[nmoira]

This, I will buy.

I just bought chocolate. Well, "chocolate," as it is white "chocolate," for the kids' stockings. I've set aside a major prejudice to accommodate their wishes. :)

[albeto.]

You got the concept, but not the right reference.  I thought the gas hike thread was about running out of fossil fuels, not climate change ....

 

Point is that tolerance for diversity of thought is a lovely idea.  If one really believes in it, one will practice it as well as preach it.  If one (or a group) has a pattern of not practicing it, it becomes difficult to accept that this ideal is really what is motivating the movement at hand.

 

 

Is this concept in reference to anything in this thread? If so, could you please make the point to this topic a bit clearer for those of us who did not read any gas hike thread? I'm all kinds of confused here.

[MFG]

Well, that's a good point. I guess it is something for us Northern hemisphere folks to reflect on, but not so relevant for the equator and Southern folks. And it's a relatively minor point, anyway, probably more for devotional reflection that historical documentation.

 

I don't know my Church history as well as I should, but the Church went pretty far into the world pretty early. The Apostle Mark to India and some early apostles to Northern Africa--but I don't know how far south--and into Europe and so on. But this is not my strong suit.

 

:0)

Thoughts along this line just struck me when we were living in New Zealand for 9 months. The theme of light in a time of darkness makes sense here, but not so much there. December 25? The longest days of the year and everyone is heading to the beach.

 

I had similar thoughts about Lent/Easter. A time of waiting and anticipation ending in rebirth and renewal suits the late winter into spring season. Going from late summer into fall with the prospect of shorter, rainier, colder days ahead? Not so much.