Update: Ready to give up....

[MommyThrice]

I'm really feeling like a failure right now.  I'm tired of pushing my three teen boys.  I have worked so hard homeschooling them for the past 13 years, but they just don't seem to want what I want.

 

Oldest DS, 18yo,  is a National Merit Semi-Finalist.  He wants to be an attorney and has won all kinds of speech, debate & moot court awards.  He's smart & a pretty good writer, but he seems to have just given up.  He has a pending scholarship to Baylor, but just won't put forth the effort to see it through to completion. (We don't have the money to send him w/o the scholarship.)  He has completely dropped English for me this semester, so I've signed him up for a dual credit class.  He will only have 1/2 English credit, but he doesn't care.  He's been studying Arabic, but lied to us about it all semester and ended up with a "C" (that's with a 90 on his final!)  This is the 3rd semester in a row he has gotten behind and lied about it.  3rd semester in a row I thought he would learn his lesson.  His dual credit GPA is now down to a 2.9.  He will need to maintain a 3.5 to keep his scholarship at Baylor, IF he gets it. All he can think about is working out and his social life.  I don't know what happened to the smart, curious kid he used to be.

 

DS #2, 16 yo, isn't much better.  I can't get him to do his "mommy" classes.  I'm farming out more and more to outside classes.

 

DS #3, 14 yo, is my smart math/science guy.  He isn't giving me as much grief yet, but he is getting and attitude.

 

I just don't know what to do with them.  I can't get them to do their school work, pick-up around the house, or even make their own lunch. If I don't make their lunch, they will just eat chips and cheese and leave it scattered around the kitchen.  (Then go work out and drink a protein shake - brilliant!)  I'm tired of picking up after them.  And I'm tired of being pestered to take them to various social events when I can't get them to take care of their responsibilities!

 

Is there a career in surfing the net and hanging out with friends?

 

They can spend hours on the computer "doing school" and have nothing to show for it.  I've given up on internet monitoring software b/c they can get around it.  Now I've just moved all the computers into the main part of the house so they aren't behind closed doors.

 

Really, I'm feeling like a failure as a homeschool mom.  Even just as a mom.  DH isn't much help.  I've asked him for years to please step in and get some control over them.  Nothing.  I can't believe that I have worked this hard just to watch them fail. I would love to have just ONE day where they want to read something intelligent, my house is relatively clean, and we aren't arguing about something.   

 

[indigomama]

I don't have anything really helpful to say, as ours aren't teens yet, but wanted to send hugs :grouphug:

 

Could you possibly implement a Nothing In Life is Free mantra. Where-in they don't start out with the privilege of internet, phones, gym time, rides etc. But those are all earned by their cooperation in school, chores done, etc?

 

 

[DragonFaerie]

I don't have anything really helpful to say, as ours aren't teens yet, but wanted to send hugs :grouphug:

 

Could you possibly implement a Nothing In Life is Free mantra. Where-in they don't start out with the privilege of internet, phones, gym time, rides etc. But those are all earned by their cooperation in school, chores done, etc?

 

I agree with this.  If they want it, they can earn it through school and chores.

[Susan in TN]

I am sorry, and I understand what you are going through. Our solution has been to farm out almost all of our ds's classes either to a tutorial or community college. He really needed that - though he still struggled with managing his time and not spending hours at a time goofing off :/. So he no longer has a laptop and he has to do all his work in the family areas and/or on the family computer - noisy siblings and all. It seems ridiculous that we would need to take these measures, but for some kids, it's just necessary.

 

Meals can be a big motivation - rooms picked up, etc. before breakfast. Work done before social events, etc. Though with teens who are somewhat independent, that can be a bit tricky to navigate.

 

We are also upping his vitamin and mineral intake through mostly yucky supplements.

 

Don't lose hope. In 7-10 years, I'll bet they all find their footing again. (((Hugs)))

[MommyThrice]

I really don't want to farm out any more classes; I'm fine farming out math/science/foreign language, but I know I can teach literature & writing much better than any outside class I've seen.  But if I can't make them actually do the work, I will have to do that.  

 

I cannot believe how much grief they can give me.  Losing internet or cell phones prompts yelling rants.  ALL the other kids get to text, go to social events, work out, manage their own time, etc... Future attorney was yelling at me the other day, so I sent him out of the house.  He told me that taking away his cell phone and holding him "prisoner" was against the Geneva convention!   :huh:  And this was after he asked if I would let him move in with a friend.  He was shocked to hear me say, "Sure." Then he decided he would rather stay home.

[Kerileanne99]

Sending you a pm...I have an idea for eldest!

[idnib]

Check out Have a New Kid by Friday from the library. It has great ideas. The first part of the book is as the title promises, a 5-day plan. The latter part of the book tells you what to do in specific instances. 

 

It's often espoused by Christian families or booksellers, but there's very little Christian content in there, just a small section on what to do if your teen won't go to church.

 

The gist of it, in your situation, would be that you've given away your power. You have almost all the real power and the teens have very little. They have the power to yell and pout and slam doors, but not to head off the Baylor, get rides to activities, buy clothes and food, have cell phones, etc. The situation has become too lopsided in their favor. Fixing it is painful but can be accomplished quickly if you stick to your guns. 

[MommyThrice]

Apparently, Lehman has also written Have a New Teenager by Friday.  Reading it now.  Thanks!

[wintermom]

I think I would completely step back and let my dh take over. I really feel that boys need to have their dad as a strong, involved leader in the household. Assuming you picked a good man as a husband, let dh feel the pain enough to do something, then support whatever decisions he makes.

 

I've only got young boys, but even with them there is a huge difference in how they react to me and how they react to dad telling them to do something (and I'm tough - their 3rd degree black belt taekwon-do teacher). My dh has also pointed out that there is an enormous difference between how boys react to a large male presence, than a female one. I can pout and be annoyed that I can't do it all, but it just makes sense to use the resources available. Parenting is definitely a team effort, and for some reason it sounds like your dh isn't involved enough.

[MommyThrice]

Wintermom,

I would love to do that. Dh won't or can't. He tells them to do something, then when they don't he never notices. Just today ds #1 went to coffee with a another man to ask if he could take his daughter to prom. When I found out about it (last night - dh has known all along) I asked dh if he told ds that he could go to the prom. Dh said no, they didn't even discuss that. Seems like it was an assumed "okay" or just up to the other dad. I'm okay with him going, but it seems to me he should at least ask first.

 

Dh is in charge of math for one son only. He's done about 30% of what should have been done by Christmas. He just can't get them to work. I feel the pain long before dh does.

 

You're right... They don't listen to mom anymore. I am pulling my hair out over here!

[MFG]

I found that the best thing for teen boys is work. As in real, out-of-the-house, answer-to-someone-else, make-your-own -money work. Young men want to grow up and, unless you have a working farm, household chores are not enough. Attitudes were much better when they were busy doing something.

[wintermom]

Wintermom,

I would love to do that. Dh won't or can't. He tells them to do something, then when they don't he never notices. Just today ds #1 went to coffee with a another man to ask if he could take his daughter to prom. When I found out about it (last night - dh has known all along) I asked dh if he told ds that he could go to the prom. Dh said no, they didn't even discuss that. Seems like it was an assumed "okay" or just up to the other dad. I'm okay with him going, but it seems to me he should at least ask first.

 

Dh is in charge of math for one son only. He's done about 30% of what should have been done by Christmas. He just can't get them to work. I feel the pain long before dh does.

 

You're right... They don't listen to mom anymore. I am pulling my hair out over here!

 

Ugg. I totally understand the lack of consistancy. I've heard some families have wonderful success sending their older dc off to school. Being held accountable to someone else does wonders. My dh and I have had discussions about this for future, but for now our dc seem to be willing to work hard for me (with dh happily stepping in to be the "heavy").

 

((All the best)). There are wonderful parts to being a mom of boys, and there are not-so-wonderful parts.

[idnib]

:grouphug:

[Carrie12345]

My teenager is back in public school and still driving us insane with his lack of motivation. We are working on arrangements to have him spend this summer working hard in a very non-glamorous job. The hope is that, after some blood, sweat, and tears (okay, maybe not the blood part,) turning in an essay will seem like a cake walk. :-p

[Ottakee]

I agree with having dh help out as much as he can and having the older 2 get REAL jobs---where you have to show up, do your work, etc. in order to get paid. They may have cell phones, etc. if THEY earn the money to pay for them.

 

This might fall under the "I walked 5 miles uphill to school in knee deep snow" category but I started working at 11 (ALL the kids did) and by 12 or so was paying for most of my own stuff including clothing, activities, etc. By 16 I saved enough to buy a car, have money in the bank for emergencies and pay car insurance. I had scholarships at college but worked 2 jobs the entire time as well.........and I am a girl. I think boys need jobs even more.

[MIch elle]

You're a better woman than me!  I saw the writing on the wall once dc became teenagers, and they went to school (gr. 9 & gr.8).  Somehow in school they were motivated (positive peer pressure) and did everything to succeed.

 

I've seen your exact problem posted on these boards too many times.  I knew it wasn't me, and I don't think it's YOU! 

 

:grouphug:

[Danestress]

At this point, a lot of raising kids is leadership.  Do you feel like you have some authority and can lead these boys?  A dad can and should  be very involved with his teenagers, and that is all good.  But if Mom is the one at home all day (which is the case in many families) MOM need authority, self discipline, the ability to hold student accountable and get good work out of them.  If this isn't happening in your family, then I agree that you need to reclaim  your authority and power, and I think that would  be true even if they were in brick and mortar school.  Turning everything over to Dad is just not a great solution for most families.  I have three sons too.  All of them will be in the workplace some day, most likely, and chances are, they will work for a woman at some point.  I don't think I would do them any favors by deciding that they just can't deal with female authority in general, or mine in particular. 

 

That said, I think Moms of teen boys sometimes need to think about what leadership styles are most effective with young men.  It doesn't come naturally to a lot of women.  I have found that I have to talk a lot less, never lose my cool, and stick to my guns consistently. I could write a book on this (but no one would buy it, lol).  Sometimes I think good parenting of teens requires a certain level of emotional detachment.   For the record, I don't homeschool my teen boys any more, though, so that might affect the weight you give my opinion. 

 

I also think you have to spend some time figuring out how much you are really willing to let your kids fail.  It's a very hard issue.  I have, at times, adopted a, "Look, it's your life, if you want to blow it, be my guest,"  attitude.  And I think it is important to be truly willing to see a kid fail a class, get fired, lose a friend, etc, as part of growing up.  But then sometimes I just CAN'T let my boys make certain mistakes.  I am not sure I would sit back and let my son blow a chance for a scholarship to Baylor.  You know he will regret it if he does, and it may not be a chance he will get back.  It's sort of this push and pull between being a "tiger mom" who simply insists her children succeed, and being a different kind of Mom who believes that letting kids fail and makes mistakes prepares them for life.  I am capable of being both of those moms at times, and I think just recognizing that there was this tension helped me get my oldest son through high school with my sanity (and our relationship) intact. 

[Susan C.]

This is what I would do for your oldest DS with the pending scholarship. Feel free to disregard. I would sign him up for dual enrollment next semester for all classes you are not happy with his work. Possiily all classes needed for graduation. Don't worry about content at this point, he will get it at college, if not in dual enrollment, then at the four year. One semester at college = one year at high school credit wise.  That is the last chance he has to save the scholarship. Emphasis on Him saving it, Not YOU. Tell him you can't pay for college, its his deal and this is a good opportunity to have college provided. He can save or lose it. Don't nag, let him take it from there. One speech (tell him), that's it, over. Move on. Ideally, all classes at college in dual enrollment. He is a man, and he will have to work it out. Your last effort is in putting him in dual enrollment.

 

Let the other two see this. Its not punishment, don't make it like it is. You have done a good job schooling them. But you are close to the end. Some kids the end is earlier than others. Mine did well at home all the way through, but they are more introverted. Most homeschool high school aged kids here didn't do well at home, especially the social ones. Having the rigid school system is just what those kids needed. Also, you move to just cheering them on (rather than nagging, which is a good thing).

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

[creekland]

I'll add my affirmations to having them get jobs - real - outside the house jobs.  I've seen many a boy turn into a man when they can start earning money (both homeschooled and public schooled).  They learn to budget their time better too - though that can take a little bit at first.

 

The deal we have with youngest (also a senior) is that he gets to keep 25% of what he earns and the other 75% goes toward college expenses.  He has spending money (we still pay for gas or it would all go toward that and I don't want it that way) and he VERY proudly paid his own deposit for college last week - only telling us a couple of days later.  I'd have preferred if he shared his payment in real time, but I'm proud that he's taking ownership.

 

Best wishes.  It IS a tough time for parenting.  It's not just you.  They truly are ready to start leaving the nest and don't want guidance, but still need some.  A "boss" can provide some of that.

[OneStepAtATime]

Getting jobs, paying for their own cell phones, no driving them anywhere unless they have completed chores, etc., sounds great.  But obviously it will probably be met with extreme resistance.  Can you handle that and be consistent and firm without getting angry or caving in when it gets ugly?  Have you tried to address with them directly what their own goals are, what they hope to do in life both short and long term?  Can you have those types of dialogs with them (without judgement or argument or trying to bring your own point of view in each time they speak?)?  Not an easy thing to do, I realize.

 

I don't have teenage boys, but my BIL does.  His eldest is brilliant, I mean brilliant, but turned into an impossible person to teach when he hit high school.  He has never been homeschooled, but he was in a very specialized school for advanced students.  His grades started to plummet in 10th grade and no amount of arguing, cajoling, pleading, etc. made any difference.  Removing computer privileges and cell phone access was only a stop gap measure that didn't address the overall problem.  It took a while to finally find a solution that worked and it required both parents (divorced) stepping back and giving him space enough to figure out what the real issues were.  All the things he had been doing were really the goals imposed on him by his parents.  He didn't want the path they had pushed him down (although they really didn't feel they were all that pushy), but he didn't even know how to articulate his feelings.  It helped when he finally could express those feelings, without pressure, argument or defensive responses from his parents.  He felt like he had no control and no choices.  So subconsciously he was making the choice NOT to follow that path.  

 

After talking with teachers and a counselor friend they actually pulled him out of high school through some special agreement with the school and the local community college and he started community college classes, plus a part time job.  His parents continue paying the bulk of the costs for college while he manages his personal costs with his part time job.  He is a different kid.  He is pleasant, he is getting awesome grades, he has planned out all the courses he will take for the next year, then is going to apply to some pretigious Universities in other cities in our state.  He has a strong idea of where he wants to go, now, and it is all on him to achieve that goal.  His motivation, his outlook, his personality have all improved dramatically.  He makes all the decisions with regards to classes, career and goals, but asks advice upon occasion.  If he doesn't keep up his grades, he knows they will simply stop funding him, but they have all agreed to let him sink or swim based on his own decisions, no pressure or lectures from them.

 

Does this mean that would happen with your sons?  No clue.  But I thought I would share, just in case it might help.

 

Oh, and as for chores, etc.  at least with regards to dishes, my BIL had what I thought was an interesting solution.  He bought each boy, and himself, their own color plate, cup, bowl and distinctive set of utensils.  It was obvious which one was whose.  They had to wash them themselves or they had nothing to eat on or with.  When dinner was served, if they didn't have their own dishes clean, there were no other dishes to eat off of and they had to go wash them.  He literally packed everything else up and only pulled out the spares when guests were over.  Not sure that helps but I thought it was an interesting solution to the piles of dishes being stacked in the sink every time they went in for a snack.

 

I know this is so horribly exhausting and frustrating and worrisome.   So sorry you are going through this and I hope you find a solution.  Hugs and good luck!

 

[readinmom]

Thank you OP, for posting this.  I could have put down something quite similar.  We have decided to take the "life has consequences approach."

Prayers for you... :grouphug:

Please keep us posted.  

[Running the race]

I could have written almost everything you said in your post. I don't have advice, but I'm posting to let you know you're not alone. It's so hard to keep going sometimes, and it's difficult to decide when to let them fail. Praying for your situation. Please keep us updated.

[Lisa R.]

I am always cautious about a "let them fail" approach when there is this much at stake here. I think teens are too young and short-sighted to see a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity (possible full college scholarship in this case) for the value that it is. That's why they need parents to push and be a large safety net. I think even smart, previously-motivated teens get senioritis and lose steam towards the end of high school.

 

The simple solution in these cases is often to have a dad with a big personality deal with these boys. It sounds as if you've pursued this avenue and your dh won't step up. It's hard to do this on your own; most boys at this age respond much better to a dad that will lead his sons and push (gently) if needed (it usually is needed). 

 

I'd out-source all the classes I could. I'd try and find male teachers if I could. I'd look for homeschooling classes, too.  I'd be cautious of signing him up for more dual-credit classes as these will go on his permanent transcript. He sounds like he's in a self-focused and unmotivated phase. Until he's out of this phase, he could really tank his college gpa. 

 

I'd also highly, highly, highly recommend having these boys get outside jobs. One thing that can motivate kids best is seeing some dead-end, hard, not-so-fun jobs out there. That is their future if they don't get their act together. No amount of carefully crafted lectures can make the impression a teen job can working alongside people who have no other options that these types of jobs. 

 

I'd also consider some counseling for you and dh to see why he be responsible towards his family. That is large concern here. You're shouldering too much responsibility. You're not a single parent but you seem to be functioning as one.

[creekland]

I am always cautious about a "let them fail" approach when there is this much at stake here. I think teens are too young and short-sighted to see a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity (possible full college scholarship in this case) for the value that it is. That's why they need parents to push and be a large safety net. I think even smart, previously-motivated teens get senioritis and lose steam towards the end of high school.

 

...

 

I'd out-source all the classes I could. I'd try and find male teachers if I could. I'd look for homeschooling classes, too.  I'd be cautious of signing him up for more dual-credit classes as these will go on his permanent transcript. He sounds like he's in a self-focused and unmotivated phase. Until he's out of this phase, he could really tank his college gpa. 

 

I'd also highly, highly, highly recommend having these boys get outside jobs. One thing that can motivate kids best is seeing some dead-end, hard, not-so-fun jobs out there. That is their future if they don't get their act together. No amount of carefully crafted lectures can make the impression a teen job can working alongside people who have no other options that these types of jobs. 

 

:iagree:  I've seen many kids (most in ps actually) who have gained focus by seeing what options are available to them if they DON'T find a better future.  Others may decide they like these jobs and be content with them.  We need both types to fill earth's niches, so to each their own.  BUT, it's better than they see what is out there when it's still relatively easy to change paths rather than waiting.

 

[Joyofsixreboot]

 

 

I've seen your exact problem posted on these boards too many times.  I knew it wasn't me, and I don't think it's YOU! 

 

:grouphug:

Agree with this.  Personally, I'd just tell the 18yo it's on his shoulders now and keep my cringing and disappointment behind closed doors.  The other two would be going nowhere until after school.  We have also found jobs to be valuable.  Good luck.  (For the record I was THAT kid and turned out ok...eventually.)

[MommyThrice]

Update...

Took oldest to visit with his calculus teacher/co-op administrator/homeschool dad - for the 2nd time.  Ds really respects him.  He didn't mince any words and told ds that his dc grades demonstrate that he just doesn't give a crap.  He didn't listen to any of ds excuses and explained that he is between (a) NMS, full-ride scholarship to Baylor (and possibly law school, too) or (b) he can be 2.9 GPA at community college.  Those are the options before him.  

Not only did he give ds a "talking to", he also gave him some clear goals. In particular, ds agreed to a clear timeline of getting all scholarship application essays completed, reviewed by someone else, edited and submitted with time to spare.  He agreed to do nothing else & not ask about any social events until it is completely done.  Then he will have earned some time off to hang out with his friends.  

He also suggested ds talk to his Arabic professor about his grade (Same thing I've been suggesting all along, but then... moms are idiots, right?) Ds did that, and his professor changed his final grade (79) from a C to a B.  Maybe because he got a 90 on the final, but probably just for asking.  He will continue with Arabic 2 next semester, but he has agreed to audit the course (no grade/no credit).  He doesn't need the credit b/c he will move back to Arabic 1 when (if) he goes to Baylor.  This is really just for high school credit and to give him the foundation so he can do well in the class at college.  He will take Composition 1 and Texas Government for dual credit this spring.  Those should be easy for him.

 

I am so very grateful to this dad for helping out once again!  Ds seems to have taken it to heart.  He needed the straight talk.  Time will tell how it all works out.  

[Twigs]

Thanks for the update.

Best wishes.

[Ellie]

Update...

Took oldest to visit with his calculus teacher/co-op administrator/homeschool dad - for the 2nd time.  Ds really respects him.  He didn't mince any words and told ds that his dc grades demonstrate that he just doesn't give a crap.  He didn't listen to any of ds excuses and explained that he is between (a) NMS, full-ride scholarship to Baylor (and possibly law school, too) or ( B) he can be 2.9 GPA at community college.  Those are the options before him.  

 

Not only did he give ds a "talking to", he also gave him some clear goals. In particular, ds agreed to a clear timeline of getting all scholarship application essays completed, reviewed by someone else, edited and submitted with time to spare.  He agreed to do nothing else & not ask about any social events until it is completely done.  Then he will have earned some time off to hang out with his friends.  

 

He also suggested ds talk to his Arabic professor about his grade (Same thing I've been suggesting all along, but then... moms are idiots, right?) Ds did that, and his professor changed his final grade (79) from a C to a B.  Maybe because he got a 90 on the final, but probably just for asking.  He will continue with Arabic 2 next semester, but he has agreed to audit the course (no grade/no credit).  He doesn't need the credit b/c he will move back to Arabic 1 when (if) he goes to Baylor.  This is really just for high school credit and to give him the foundation so he can do well in the class at college.  He will take Composition 1 and Texas Government for dual credit this spring.  Those should be easy for him.

 

I am so very grateful to this dad for helping out once again!  Ds seems to have taken it to heart.  He needed the straight talk.  Time will tell how it all works out.  

 

:thumbup:

[creekland]

The update sounds great!  I think we all need a kick in the backside at some points in our lives...

[MysteryJen]

The update sounds great! So glad that this happened this year and not next year at Baylor!

 

He will remember this semester and the talking to for a long time, I am sure.

[wintermom]

That's awesome! Thanks for the update. Hope this helps out ds for now and into the future.

[idnib]

:hurray:

:grouphug: