Teen son, job, family trip.... help!!!!!

[Word Nerd]

Honestly, if my family member chose not to attend something like this due to a part time minimum wage job at Red Lobster I would be offended. Especially considering the income is not vital.

I can understand being disappointed, but offended? I would think that family members could recognize that it's a tough decision for him and extend a little grace.

[StephanieZ]

Ps. A good negotiating point would be if your son offered to work loads of shifts over Thanksgiving. If he wants to keep the job, suggest he offer that he is more than willing to work long hours over all the other crummy shifts, including Thanksgiving Day, etc.

[Joanne]

 

I am asking these as legitimate questions that I am struggling with and would love some others' ideas:

 

Do we - as parents - need to teach him to value those family members' feelings over his own? 

Are his feelings more important?  Are theirs? 

Do we need to be unfair towards him now because we see him regretting his decision later?

Do we let him make a big (in our opinion) mistake regarding his extended family (who he is very close to, and wants to visit, but really hates the idea of losing a job) and let him learn from it?

Do we insist that family is more important, and that sometimes bad decisions have to be made in favor of family?

 

 

 

You allow him, as a near adult make decisions based on his current life context. You don't make him *make* a decision and you don't encourage him to make decisions to make others "happy."

 

Your young man is mature enough to think this through. You are *assuming* he'll regret the decision to stay home and not lose the job.

 

The thing is that if you decide for him, as implied in your questions above, you are not meeting him where he is developmentally AND you are taking away the one thing he's identified as working for him.

 

You can't "insist that family is more important." You can only make him comply with what you think shows "family is more important."

 

I'm frustrated by the posters who dismiss the decision because of the low pay and low role of the job: it is NOT THE POINT AT ALL of this dilemma.

[Aelwydd]

You allow him, as a near adult make decisions based on his current life context. You don't make him *make* a decision and you don't encourage him to make decisions to make others "happy."

 

Your young man is mature enough to think this through. You are *assuming* he'll regret the decision to stay home and not lose the job.

 

The thing is that if you decide for him, as implied in your questions above, you are not meeting him where he is developmentally AND you are taking away the one thing he's identified as working for him.

 

You can't "insist that family is more important." You can only make him comply with what you think shows "family is more important."

 

I'm frustrated by the posters who dismiss the decision because of the low pay and low role of the job: it is NOT THE POINT AT ALL of this dilemma.

EXACTLY.

[5of5]

I'm frustrated by the posters who dismiss the decision because of the low pay and low role of the job: it is NOT THE POINT AT ALL of this dilemma.

That's your opinion.

[Aelwydd]

Well - he just turned 17 a few days ago - so more than a few months before he's an adult - and he's a junior - not a senior - so he has almost 2 more years here at home.

 

I do agree about the economy, Rebekah - it's cruddy. And it is a lot harder to get hired under-18 because so many places have liability insurance issues now...

If we were making him use his pay for life necessities I don't think we could ask him to lost the job. I guess I'm more on the fence because he uses the money for his own entertainment (and gas, I guess, but he uses our gas as well) and not for bills. So - him being out a job for a few months won't really hurt him in that way.

I do agree that if this will really come down this way, he should go ahead and put in his 2 weeks notice and give the people there a chance to rehire well before Xmas.....

As Joanne discerned, it isn't about the money, or what he spends it on, or how easy it would be to replace said income.

 

You are his parent and the one with power in this relationship. You are using an emotional argument to pressure your ds to comply with what you want.

 

You tell him family is more important than work, but you and dh have just uprooted him from all his connections for dh's work. I get that it was the smartest financial decision, and it's one I would make in your shoes, too.

 

But, the fact you are now leaning on ds so hard to give up his job, because it seems inconsequential in comparison to visiting family, is just a terrific insult on multiple levels.

 

One, because it smacks of hypocrisy on your part. Two, because he IS nearly an adult, and he deserves more respect to make this decision than your dh and you are giving him. Three, because it is manipulative to use guilt or others' disappointment to convince him he'll regret staying.

 

Your ds is his own person. He may NOT regret it at all, and he may be looking to find some psychological separation from family, to sort out his own burgeoning agency as an adult.

 

But then, if you step back and allow him to make the decision free of any pressure, he may choose of his own to quit and go with the family.

 

IMO, the important thing here isn't what he chooses, but how that choice is reached. You are setting a precedent for future relations between your adult son and yourself.

[Aelwydd]

That's your opinion.

She's not alone holding it.

[plansrme]

As Joanne discerned, it isn't about the money, or what he spends it on, or how easy it would be to replace said income.

 

You are his parent and the one with power in this relationship. You are using an emotional argument to pressure your ds to comply with what you want.

 

You tell him family is more important than work, but you and dh have just uprooted him from all his connections for dh's work. I get that it was the smartest financial decision, and it's one I would make in your shoes, too.

 

But, the fact you are now leaning on ds so hard to give up his job, because it seems inconsequential in comparison to visiting family, is just a terrific insult on multiple levels.

 

One, because it smacks of hypocrisy on your part. Two, because he IS nearly an adult, and he deserves more respect to make this decision than your dh and you are giving him. Three, because it is manipulative to use guilt or others' disappointment to convince him he'll regret staying.

 

Your ds is his own person. He may NOT regret it at all, and he may be looking to find some psychological separation from family, to sort out his own burgeoning agency as an adult.

 

But then, if you step back and allow him to make the decision free of any pressure, he may choose of his own to quit and go with the family.

 

IMO, the important thing here isn't what he chooses, but how that choice is reached. You are setting a precedent for future relations between your adult son and yourself.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Though I suspect the OP has made her mind up already, I hope she is open to hearing the wisdom in this post.

[5of5]

She's not alone holding it.

So, what? Are you suggesting a poll?

[Aelwydd]

Thanks, plansrme. I'm not at all unsympathetic to OP's situation. I would find it really hard to leave my ds home alone.

 

I probably would stay home, myself, rather than leave him. If no other options were open, we'd just deal with it.

[Aelwydd]

So, what? Are you suggesting a poll?

No. I'm stating she is not alone in her viewpoint. I don't care if it is majority or not.

[AK_Mom4]

Hugs, OP!  This is a tough one!

 

If my older 17yo chose to stay home and work, I would respect that and send DH off with the other kids to visit the relatives.   I would not want my teen to be alone over Christmas.  I realize I would then be dealing with the fallout of "disappointed relatives", but at least they would get to visit with DH and the other kids.

 

Not a perfect solution, but probably the best I could do under the circumstances.  I would not force my 17yo to quit his job in order to go on a family trip.

[elegantlion]

That's your opinion.

 

 

She's not alone holding it.

 

I agree, it's not just about a minimum wage job. 

 

No. I'm stating she is not alone in her viewpoint. I don't care if it is majority or not.

 

Majority/minority - one day you're in, the next day you're out. Whatcha gonna do?

[elegantlion]

I'm frustrated by the fact they take advantage of kids at jobs.  I worked a lot as a kid.  I worked every holiday.  I missed zillions of things.  It was hard to get a day off.  I guess they figured I was young and didn't care if I ever saw my family at holidays (meanwhile other people got time off who were not in that category).

 

All of the jobs I worked (many retail) it wasn't about age, it was about seniority. Especially in retail, there really wasn't time off at the holidays, period. Two weeks is a long period of time to take off even for a more senior employee. Most jobs I worked gave you one week paid vacation until you were there for a number of YEARS. Requesting time off without pay was frowned upon unless there were extenuating circumstances, visiting relatives would not be considered one of those. 

[abacus2]

I think the fact that this trip was already planned when ds took this job is really, really important. He should have made arrangements for his known needs before accepting the job. Going in he knew about the trip and should have taken the responsibility to plan for it. To me this is similar to an employer trying to insist that he must work during the school day; he may want to keep his job and make his employer happy, but as a minor child he goes where his family goes and completes school requirements ahead of employer requests. Just like he would tell his employer he couldn't work during the school day, he should tell his employer he cannot work while he is gone with his family on a trip. It really stinks if that leads to him having to resign his position, but he not yet an independent adult.

[Murphy101]

You allow him, as a near adult make decisions based on his current life context. You don't make him *make* a decision and you don't encourage him to make decisions to make others "happy."

Sure I do. You might not, but I unapologetically do. They make lots of decisions without me too. But heck yeah I make some decisions for them. And yes I absolutely do encourage them to make some decisions to make others happy.

 

Your young man is mature enough to think this through. You are *assuming* he'll regret the decision to stay home and not lose the job.

Sure she is. What with him actually being her son and all, I think she might have a better eye for making presumptions than us folks over the Internet.

 

The thing is that if you decide for him, as implied in your questions above, you are not meeting him where he is developmentally AND you are taking away the one thing he's identified as working for him.

Or not. She seems to be posing a question or genuine conflict, which doesn't imply she is nearly as authoritarian in her parenting style as some of us or that you seem to to imply.

 

You can't "insist that family is more important." You can only make him comply with what you think shows "family is more important."

I'm frustrated by the posters who dismiss the decision because of the low pay and low role of the job: it is NOT THE POINT AT ALL of this dilemma.

 

 

Yes, actually it is the entire point if you have an attitude that we should work to live, not live to work. What's the point of this job? Character building? Career? Savings? Fluff money?

 

It's one thing to miss a major rare family event because the mortgage won't be paid or because they need it to go to college next semester. It is entirely another thing, to my home anyways, to miss a major rare family event for a bit of fluff money at a purposeless job.

 

By the sound of it, the OP rarely gets to have a family get together with her side of the family. It is not a yearly regular holiday event. I can understand explaining this to son. And she claims he does actually want to go, he just dreads job hunting again.

 

You tell him family is more important than work, but you and dh have just uprooted him from all his connections for dh's work. I get that it was the smartest financial decision, and it's one I would make in your shoes, too.

But, the fact you are now leaning on ds so hard to give up his job, because it seems inconsequential in comparison to visiting family, is just a terrific insult on multiple levels.

No. Family is more important than work. It was because her dh feels it is important to feed, cloth, shelter and otherwise provide for his family that they moved. It's not like they moved just so dad could have some midlife crisis joyride. And I'd bloody well point out the glaring obviousness of that life reality to my son if he thought that was comparable to blowing off dying granny so he could have pocket change.

 

One, because it smacks of hypocrisy on your part. Two, because he IS nearly an adult, and he deserves more respect to make this decision than your dh and you are giving him. Three, because it is manipulative to use guilt or others' disappointment to convince him he'll regret staying.

Your ds is his own person. He may NOT regret it at all, and he may be looking to find some psychological separation from family, to sort out his own burgeoning agency as an adult.

But then, if you step back and allow him to make the decision free of any pressure, he may choose of his own to quit and go with the family.

IMO, the important thing here isn't what he chooses, but how that choice is reached. You are setting a precedent for future relations between your adult son and yourself.

Maybe it is manipulative to not ignore the obvious and act like only what we feel matters. If so, then I guess I'm okay with it.

 

In this house it is family first. One of my sons was informed he would have to choose either thanksgiving or Christmas at work. He immediately called home and asked what I thought. This is what family does, especially when they live together. They do consider the feelings of others and try to help each other meet goals. You call it manipulative. We just call it common courtesy.

 

At 17, we would either all stay home, I'd go either by myself or with little ones, or son would be asked to quit.

 

Which it would be would be greatly dependent on the event, the job, and other factors. I don't think any of them would resent it either. (I guess I could pose the question to them... ) Disappointment probably though.

 

But I wouldn't let them manipulate me into making my decision based in making them "happy". ;p

[SailorMom]

As Joanne discerned, it isn't about the money, or what he spends it on, or how easy it would be to replace said income.

 

You are his parent and the one with power in this relationship. You are using an emotional argument to pressure your ds to comply with what you want.

 

You tell him family is more important than work, but you and dh have just uprooted him from all his connections for dh's work. I get that it was the smartest financial decision, and it's one I would make in your shoes, too.

 

But, the fact you are now leaning on ds so hard to give up his job, because it seems inconsequential in comparison to visiting family, is just a terrific insult on multiple levels.

 

One, because it smacks of hypocrisy on your part. Two, because he IS nearly an adult, and he deserves more respect to make this decision than your dh and you are giving him. Three, because it is manipulative to use guilt or others' disappointment to convince him he'll regret staying.

 

Your ds is his own person. He may NOT regret it at all, and he may be looking to find some psychological separation from family, to sort out his own burgeoning agency as an adult.

 

But then, if you step back and allow him to make the decision free of any pressure, he may choose of his own to quit and go with the family.

 

IMO, the important thing here isn't what he chooses, but how that choice is reached. You are setting a precedent for future relations between your adult son and yourself.

 

Sometimes I feel like people on hear read what they want to hear.  You are not hearing me.  You are not trying to see beyond the most simple of points I am struggling with.

I am not manipulating my son, I am not leaning on him to leave a job, I'm absolutely in no way saying his job is inconsequential.  If I was saying or acting the way you seem to think I am, why would I be on here struggling with this asking for help?  I sound like a callous jerk who doesn't give a rip about my son's feelings in some of these posts.  I was up until 5:30 this morning struggling with it.

 

DS is working tonight and said he was going to talk to his manager about it one on one before his shift, so we're really waiting on that to have any kind of big discussion about it.

 

How exactly is our making a military move because we have to in any way similar to him perhaps having to leave a (let's face it - low paying) job he's had for 2 months to see family he hasn't seen in years?  Are you really so immature as to think these two things can even be related???  I've talked to my son so much about all of this already - it hasn't even occurred to him that the two things are related because he understands and respects my DH's job.  My son is proud of his dad and the work he does, and while he doesn't always like it, he understands the sacrifices we've made.  I guarantee you if he read the posts that included this sort of comment he'd be thunderstruck by some people's attitudes and assumptions. 

 

He is actually far more mature than most people here are giving him credit for, and we have a fantastic relationship on the whole.  And while he is not thrilled to live here, misses his friends - he does not resent us for the move.  He simply doesn't like it.  I find it kinda funny that so many people say he's almost adult and then assign to him emotions and reactions that seem very childish to me.  I suppose growing up military and with a strong sense of responsibility to the country changes a teen's perspective.  If my son acted like his job and my DH's job were comparable, I'd be shocked at how immature he was being.  Is it fair?  No.  Life isn't fair.  He's already got that figured out.  And yes - he is going to be an adult in a year - but he's got almost 2 full years of high school left.  Also - 17 is 17 - not an adult.  We are still responsible for him, and for making decisions we feel are in his best interest long term and not rely on his rather short-sighted view of the world.  And yes - I do think it is short-sighted.  I can relate to it, and I totally understand it and feel for him, and hope he figures it out on his own if it comes down to it. 

 

Look - I'm just kinda finally reacting to some of the posts here.  I knew when I posted there'd be difficult ones, and so far I've tried to show grace towards the more abrasive posters, and I openly asked for alternative ideas, opinions, and even flames hoping that I could try to see things from different perspectives.  But some of the attitudes are just downright mean.  Not a big surprise, really, I've seen so much meanness on these boards over the years I certainly knew I'd be the recipient of some of it.  But it does get old, and some of ya'll are saying the SAME things over and over anyway...  So - I'm not meaning to specifically pick on Aelwydd or anything, but it was just kinda a "last straw" sort of thing to be called a hypocrite.  And it does seem like people are not actually reading everything I've posted before they post..... 

 

Aelwydd - I'm sure you didn't say anything out of meanness, and you make a few good points, but some of what you said just pushed buttons, I guess.  I am also dealing with a horrendous amount of guilt - even though logically it is not something to feel guilt about - over moving our kids here.  I've been on the verge of tears for months watching then try to adjust.  I will admit to a large amount of over-sensitivity.  After your saying that we are insulting him, manipulating him and guilt-ing him,  you make some very good points and have good arguments.

 

I am kinda surprised that so many here think that the feelings of everyone else in our immediate and extended family shouldn't matter. Do you think the feelings of my DH don't matter?  Do you realize how much my DH has sacrificed over the years to provide us with a very good life, made me able to stay home with our kids and homeschool, allowed our kids to do and see things I never was able to do as a kid? 

 

 I actually think that is a horrible lesson for my son.....  I think the feelings of others must be front and center.  I truly believe that learning to care more for others than yourself is the key to happiness.  It's a tough lesson, but an important one.  Of course, I agree we all have to find our way to that, and I don't know that a 17 yo is ready to make that kind of call or even really understand it. 

 

I'm not manipulating him with guilt over other's feelings, but other's feelings should be taken into consideration.  And, actually I have NOT mentioned the extended family and their reactions to my son at all.  I am simply worried about them myself.  Although I did give him my initial post to read, and I know it was mentioned there.  Once I figure out how I think I should approach him with all the pros and cons, I will absolutely bring it up - but I think he's smart enough to know his extended family wants to see him.

 

And as far as people saying I've made my mind up.... where have I said that?  I've recently posted that I'm looking into cheaper dog boarding possibilities and making our trip shorter, buying plane tickets rather than driving, perhaps only have DS come out for a few days..., etc.  How exactly have I made up my mind? My only real deal breaker is that I don't want him alone for Christmas.  Remember - there is no one here at all.  No good friends, no other family.  No one.  He'd be completely alone.  That to me is REALLY sad. 

 

As far as this being about whether the job is good enough - I don't think that is the issue here.  Sure, if it paid better and had better future prospects we'd be able to justify buying a $660 plane ticket a little easier.  The only reason I brought up the pay and type of job because someone asked.  I don't think it makes a difference.  That isn't the problem.  The problem is how he feels about the job - which is not connected to the pay at all as far as I can tell.  I do think he could get a better job, and I think he'd end up connecting with the people there just as well and as easily as he did at his current job.  He's always had good relationships with employers and fellow employees.  It isn't that this job is irreplaceable in any way - it is.  But - do we want to make him have to replace it right now after the move?  That is the issue.

 

I hope that Aellwydd is right that he comes to his own conclusion to give notice if he has to.  We are not strong arm parents and we communicate very well with our kids.  He seemed to be in a much less upset and angry place this morning.  Actually acted normal.  It's possible he's already getting there on his own.

 

Ok - I have to quit obsessing on this.  Pleas do not feel I'm rude if I don't respond for a while - I've spent way too much time on the computer today.

[Jenny in Florida]

I'm frustrated by the fact they take advantage of kids at jobs.  I worked a lot as a kid.  I worked every holiday.  I missed zillions of things.  It was hard to get a day off.  I guess they figured I was young and didn't care if I ever saw my family at holidays (meanwhile other people got time off who were not in that category).

 

For what it's worth, I'm not a kid and haven't been one for many, many years. The last two out-of-the-house jobs I've worked have required holiday shifts. I am currently working retail part-time, because I wanted something to do and a recent, local job to list on my work history in coming years. We've been told that time off during the holidays is not likely to happen for any of us, up to and including the store manager and assistant managers.

 

The reality is, if you choose to go to work for a customer-facing business that is open during the holidays, you'll likely be expected to work, no matter what your age or position in the company.

[SailorMom]

Sure I do. You might not, but I unapologetically do. They make lots of decisions without me too. But heck yeah I make some decisions for them. And yes I absolutely do encourage them to make some decisions to make others happy.

 

 

Sure she is. What with him actually being her son and all, I think she might have a better eye for making presumptions than us folks over the Internet.

 

 

Or not. She seems to be posing a question or genuine conflict, which doesn't imply she is nearly as authoritarian in her parenting style as some of us or that you seem to to imply.

 

 

 

Yes, actually it is the entire point if you have an attitude that we should work to live, not live to work. What's the point of this job? Character building? Career? Savings? Fluff money?

 

It's one thing to miss a major rare family event because the mortgage won't be paid or because they need it to go to college next semester. It is entirely another thing, to my home anyways, to miss a major rare family event for a bit of fluff money at a purposeless job.

 

By the sound of it, the OP rarely gets to have a family get together with her side of the family. It is not a yearly regular holiday event. I can understand explaining this to son. And she claims he does actually want to go, he just dreads job hunting again.

 

 

No. Family is more important than work. It was because her dh feels it is important to feed, cloth, shelter and otherwise provide for his family that they moved. It's not like they moved just so dad could have some midlife crisis joyride. And I'd bloody well point out the glaring obviousness of that life reality to my son if he thought that was comparable to blowing off dying granny so he could have pocket change.

 

 

Maybe it is manipulative to not ignore the obvious and act like only what we feel matters. If so, then I guess I'm okay with it.

 

In this house it is family first. One of my sons was informed he would have to choose either thanksgiving or Christmas at work. He immediately called home and asked what I thought. This is what family does, especially when they live together. They do consider the feelings of others and try to help each other meet goals. You call it manipulative. We just call it common courtesy.

 

At 17, we would either all stay home, I'd go either by myself or with little ones, or son would be asked to quit.

 

Which it would be would be greatly dependent on the event, the job, and other factors. I don't think any of them would resent it either. (I guess I could pose the question to them... ) Disappointment probably though.

 

But I wouldn't let them manipulate me into making my decision based in making them "happy". ;p

 

Martha (and others) - thank you for hearing me.

[Snickerdoodle]

I think the feelings of others must be front and center.  I truly believe that learning to care more for others than yourself is the key to happiness.

 

His feelings, their feelings.....

[SailorMom]

For what it's worth, I'm not a kid and haven't been one for many, many years. The last two out-of-the-house jobs I've worked have required holiday shifts. I am currently working retail part-time, because I wanted something to do and a recent, local job to list on my work history in coming years. We've been told that time off during the holidays is not likely to happen for any of us, up to and including the store manager and assistant managers.

 

The reality is, if you choose to go to work for a customer-facing business that is open during the holidays, you'll likely be expected to work, no matter what your age or position in the company.

 

I agree.  In fact, we encouraged him not to take this job because of the hours issues and the low pay.  We felt he'd be sacrificing a lot of his time for little reward (of course, this now is not about money, but about his relationships there).  We actually offered to pay for his gas and help him find yard work and babysitting jobs through my DH's squadron in order to keep our schedules more flexible, but he insisted on this job. 

I worked retail in high school and had to work holidays, but we lived in the same town as our relatives, so even if I worked a shift on the actual holiday, I was still able to make it to most events.  I completely agree that working for a company like this means bad hours and days.  That's why if they won't give him the time off, he has to bow out and let them hire someone else in plenty of time for training (if that is the decision we all make - that he is going for sure).

[SailorMom]

And in the grand scheme of things will he ever get recognition for this?  Will a future employer be impressed he missed out on a family trip because a company was going to fall apart because he wasn't there to bus tables for a few hours over a period of two weeks?  Silly.  They aren't going to care.

 

Yeah - I hate to rain on his parade, but I think his short time working has him kinda over-inflating the importance of this job.  Not that it isn't important, it is, especially to him.  But his future employers aren't going to care - even if they should.  That's just the way it is.

[Aelwydd]

No. Family is more important than work. It was because her dh feels it is important to feed, cloth, shelter and otherwise provide for his family that they moved. It's not like they moved just so dad could have some midlife crisis joyride. And I'd bloody well point out the glaring obviousness of that life reality to my son if he thought that was comparable to blowing off dying granny so he could have pocket change.

 

 

Maybe it is manipulative to not ignore the obvious and act like only what we feel matters. If so, then I guess I'm okay with it.

 

In this house it is family first. One of my sons was informed he would have to choose either thanksgiving or Christmas at work. He immediately called home and asked what I thought. This is what family does, especially when they live together. They do consider the feelings of others and try to help each other meet goals. You call it manipulative. We just call it common courtesy.

 

At 17, we would either all stay home, I'd go either by myself or with little ones, or son would be asked to quit.

 

Which it would be would be greatly dependent on the event, the job, and other factors. I don't think any of them would resent it either. (I guess I could pose the question to them... ) Disappointment probably though.

 

But I wouldn't let them manipulate me into making my decision based in making them "happy". ;p

 

Martha, to answer your points, in order:

 

The OP stated her dh stuck with her job to preserve their retirement.  She did not state that her dh was unable to find a comparable job where they lived.  Whether that was the case or not,  I don't blame her a bit for making that choice...I'd have made the same, no question about it. I did not say it was the wrong choice.  I said that what is possibly a problem for her ds is that he had to give up all his connections for his parent's work-related move, but now he is being told that his work is less important.

 

Certainly, I don't attach the same financial need to his job as the OP's.  What I said was that to him, it's an important step towards self-sufficiency as an adult.  It is also important to him, because it represents new connections in his new home.  Extended family is great, but when he comes home from Christmas, they are not going to be there in the daily grind to lend their friendship.  When he comes home, they will be gone, and so will his one place of support.  He will have to start all over again from ground zero.

 

The need for friendship and support is just that--a need.  OP has not mentioned her ds using his emotional need for friendship as manipulation.  The OP has mentioned repeated appeals to him on the basis of disappointment from his extended family.  If manipulation is involved here, it's not coming from the young adult, because he seems to be attempting to please all sides, without having to sacrifice the one good thing he has going in his new home.

 

Family is important, but IMO, there is a difference between extended family, and my immediate family. My dh and I have been waiting for an opportunity to move out of the country for years.  Our ds is not exactly excited--practically my whole family lives here in Texas, including his cousins, with whom he is very close.  If and when we make that move, it means there will be many holidays where we will not be with my family, or dh's. 

 

At some point, ds will likely not be able to go with us, or he will go alone without us.  That's just the way it is.  I don't love or care for my family less because there are sometimes when time, money, jobs, or other contraints keep one or more of us apart. 

 

 

 

[SailorMom]

His feelings, their feelings.....

 

I'm not sure I get what you're saying here...

Feelings are bad, inconsequential?  I should chose between his or theirs?  That this is a 'rock/hard place" situation because of all the darn feelings?

[Snickerdoodle]

He should give grace to his family's feelings just as they should give grace to his. 

 

 

 

[Flowing Brook]

I think your son should go. Your dh has worked hard and has missed  many family gatherings. He is going to be deployed again soon.    If it were my ds I would tell him to talk to his boss.  I would explain to him how we want him to be with us for this very important family gathering.  I would explain why it is important to us.  Family sticks together and should be close.  The reason I think mom and dad's wishes trumps sons in this case is simple.  One Dad's gone a lot and has had to miss many holiday's. This is one time when he can have his whole family together.  Two Dad is leaving again soon. Three gma and gpa are old and may not live much longer.  It is not unfair to want to see the family together for what could be one last time.

You can always go to work and get a pay check. You can't always go see family and gather together for Christmas. If seeing family for Christmas was a yearly deal I would say just let him stay home.

 

Hugs to your son because I know at his age his job can seem like the most important thing in his life.

I hope you can all come to a peaceful agreement that pleases everyone.

[SailorMom]

Martha, to answer your points, in order:

 

The OP stated her dh stuck with her job to preserve their retirement.  She did not state that her dh was unable to find a comparable job where they lived.  Whether that was the case or not,  I don't blame her a bit for making that choice...I'd have made the same, no question about it. I did not say it was the wrong choice.  I said that what is possibly a problem for her ds is that he had to give up all his connections for his parent's work-related move, but now he is being told that his work is less important.

 

 

 

Wow - really?  I get you "don't blame us" - but would you really let 17 years of job history, all of your DH's pay, and your health benefits go?  This is not just about retirement.  We can't afford to live if DH quits this job.  And being a special operations pilot is a bit of a niche job.  Kinda hard to find work in that field in the private sector.  And if you think our retirement plan isn't important - uh - I'm not willing to stick our kids with supporting us because we decided to go bankrupt and not get all the retirement my DH's has been working for his whole working life.

You said you would make the same choice, but we didn't have a choice, really.  I mean - sure  - go bankrupt, lose our house, go on government assistance.  Yeah - great choice that.

And whether it is fair or not - my DS's job is less important by far and away, and even he would agree with that.

[SailorMom]

He should give grace to his family's feelings just as they should give grace to his. 

Gotcha :)

[Jenny in Florida]

I agree.  In fact, we encouraged him not to take this job because of the hours issues and the low pay.  We felt he'd be sacrificing a lot of his time for little reward (of course, this now is not about money, but about his relationships there).  We actually offered to pay for his gas and help him find yard work and babysitting jobs through my DH's squadron in order to keep our schedules more flexible, but he insisted on this job. 

I worked retail in high school and had to work holidays, but we lived in the same town as our relatives, so even if I worked a shift on the actual holiday, I was still able to make it to most events.  I completely agree that working for a company like this means bad hours and days.  That's why if they won't give him the time off, he has to bow out and let them hire someone else in plenty of time for training (if that is the decision we all make - that he is going for sure).

 

I'm sorry, I know you feel like people are being "mean," but I just have to comment on this:

 

You discussed these very issues with him in advance and offered him a more parent-centered solution, but he "insisted on this job."

 

Does that not tell you it's important to him? Is it not clear that he values his independence and maturity as represented by this job?

 

Can you really not see how insulting it is to belittle this job, which he chose and he owns and he finds meaningful, because he doesn't make very much money doing it?

 

You challenged me with a bunch of personal questions earlier, clearly implying that I simply didn't appropriately understand your situation. (And, of course, that I am somehow personally offended or angered by it.) I don't find it necessary to share details of my personal life with you. However, I will say that, while I haven't been in the exact same situation, I've been on both sides of quite similar dilemmas. At this moment, we are expecting that this holiday season will be the last one that both of my kids live at home. My son has dance-related activities scheduled for Thanksgiving evening and later that weekend. My daughter will likely be scheduled to work Thanksgiving afternoon and possibly Christmas day. My husband has been resentful and irritable about these intrusions, and both of my kids are hurt and angry about his attitude.

 

I was sharing your story -- as objectively as I could, without sharing my own feelings about it -- with my daughter as I drove her to work earlier. Before I could get more than a few sentences into it, she blurted out, "Let me guess: They want to make the kid quit his job, right?" She was furious on your son's behalf and said she would have trouble enjoying a visit with family under these circumstances.

 

Her suggestion was that you try and find two or three days out of the two-week time that your son could be available and fly him out to meet you. She said she would recommend you offer your son the choice: Come with us for the entire trip, even if it means leaving your job, or fly out for a couple of days but pay us back for half of the airfare out of your salary for the next few months.

 

That would show him you respect his maturity and judgment and allow him to make the decision and prove how serious he is about wanting to keep the job.

 

It sounds like a reasonable compromise to me.

[Jenny in Florida]

Yeah - I hate to rain on his parade, but I think his short time working has him kinda over-inflating the importance of this job.  Not that it isn't important, it is, especially to him.  But his future employers aren't going to care - even if they should.  That's just the way it is.

 

I don't think it should matter if future employers care. The significant point is that your son does.

[SailorMom]

 

 

Can you really not see how insulting it is to belittle this job, which he chose and he owns and he finds meaningful, because he doesn't make very much money doing it?

 

 

 

 

I just want to say, again, that I have never belittled his job, I have never made light of it, and in no way would I ever think to do so.  I never once said this had anything to do with his pay - other than to say that it would make getting a plane ticket easier if he made more money to help pay for it.  In fact - I have agreed with other posters 100% that the struggle here has nothing to do with pay.

 

I have said over and over that I completely understand where he is coming from.  I have no idea how what I've said comes off as belittling.  My son also doesn't think I've belittled his job.  I made sure he knew/knows that I totally respect his work ethic, his relationships there, and how much respect he's gotten, and that he wants to work.   

 

However, he is not working to pay bills, and can replace his job rather easily.  This is just a fact.  That isn't belittling, it's just the way it is.

[Aelwydd]

Sometimes I feel like people on hear read what they want to hear.  You are not hearing me.  You are not trying to see beyond the most simple of points I am struggling with.

I am not manipulating my son, I am not leaning on him to leave a job, I'm absolutely in no way saying his job is inconsequential.  If I was saying or acting the way you seem to think I am, why would I be on here struggling with this asking for help?  I sound like a callous jerk who doesn't give a rip about my son's feelings in some of these posts.  I was up until 5:30 this morning struggling with it.

 

DS is working tonight and said he was going to talk to his manager about it one on one before his shift, so we're really waiting on that to have any kind of big discussion about it.

 

How exactly is our making a military move because we have to in any way similar to him perhaps having to leave a (let's face it - low paying) job he's had for 2 months to see family he hasn't seen in years?  Are you really so immature as to think these two things can even be related???  I've talked to my son so much about all of this already - it hasn't even occurred to him that the two things are related because he understands and respects my DH's job.  My son is proud of his dad and the work he does, and while he doesn't always like it, he understands the sacrifices we've made.  I guarantee you if he read the posts that included this sort of comment he'd be thunderstruck by some people's attitudes and assumptions. 

 

He is actually far more mature than most people here are giving him credit for, and we have a fantastic relationship on the whole.  And while he is not thrilled to live here, misses his friends - he does not resent us for the move.  He simply doesn't like it.  I find it kinda funny that so many people say he's almost adult and then assign to him emotions and reactions that seem very childish to me.  I suppose growing up military and with a strong sense of responsibility to the country changes a teen's perspective.  If my son acted like his job and my DH's job were comparable, I'd be shocked at how immature he was being.  Is it fair?  No.  Life isn't fair.  He's already got that figured out.  And yes - he is going to be an adult in a year - but he's got almost 2 full years of high school left.  Also - 17 is 17 - not an adult.  We are still responsible for him, and for making decisions we feel are in his best interest long term and not rely on his rather short-sighted view of the world.  And yes - I do think it is short-sighted.  I can relate to it, and I totally understand it and feel for him, and hope he figures it out on his own if it comes down to it. 

 

Look - I'm just kinda finally reacting to some of the posts here.  I knew when I posted there'd be difficult ones, and so far I've tried to show grace towards the more abrasive posters, and I openly asked for alternative ideas, opinions, and even flames hoping that I could try to see things from different perspectives.  But some of the attitudes are just downright mean.  Not a big surprise, really, I've seen so much meanness on these boards over the years I certainly knew I'd be the recipient of some of it.  But it does get old, and some of ya'll are saying the SAME things over and over anyway...  So - I'm not meaning to specifically pick on Aelwydd or anything, but it was just kinda a "last straw" sort of thing to be called a hypocrite.  And it does seem like people are not actually reading everything I've posted before they post..... 

 

Aelwydd - I'm sure you didn't say anything out of meanness, and you make a few good points, but some of what you said just pushed buttons, I guess.  I am also dealing with a horrendous amount of guilt - even though logically it is not something to feel guilt about - over moving our kids here.  I've been on the verge of tears for months watching then try to adjust.  I will admit to a large amount of over-sensitivity.  After your saying that we are insulting him, manipulating him and guilt-ing him,  you make some very good points and have good arguments.

 

I am kinda surprised that so many here think that the feelings of everyone else in our immediate and extended family shouldn't matter. Do you think the feelings of my DH don't matter?  Do you realize how much my DH has sacrificed over the years to provide us with a very good life, made me able to stay home with our kids and homeschool, allowed our kids to do and see things I never was able to do as a kid? 

 

 I actually think that is a horrible lesson for my son.....  I think the feelings of others must be front and center.  I truly believe that learning to care more for others than yourself is the key to happiness.  It's a tough lesson, but an important one.  Of course, I agree we all have to find our way to that, and I don't know that a 17 yo is ready to make that kind of call or even really understand it. 

 

I'm not manipulating him with guilt over other's feelings, but other's feelings should be taken into consideration.  And, actually I have NOT mentioned the extended family and their reactions to my son at all.  I am simply worried about them myself.  Although I did give him my initial post to read, and I know it was mentioned there.  Once I figure out how I think I should approach him with all the pros and cons, I will absolutely bring it up - but I think he's smart enough to know his extended family wants to see him.

 

And as far as people saying I've made my mind up.... where have I said that?  I've recently posted that I'm looking into cheaper dog boarding possibilities and making our trip shorter, buying plane tickets rather than driving, perhaps only have DS come out for a few days..., etc.  How exactly have I made up my mind? My only real deal breaker is that I don't want him alone for Christmas.  Remember - there is no one here at all.  No good friends, no other family.  No one.  He'd be completely alone.  That to me is REALLY sad. 

 

As far as this being about whether the job is good enough - I don't think that is the issue here.  Sure, if it paid better and had better future prospects we'd be able to justify buying a $660 plane ticket a little easier.  The only reason I brought up the pay and type of job because someone asked.  I don't think it makes a difference.  That isn't the problem.  The problem is how he feels about the job - which is not connected to the pay at all as far as I can tell.  I do think he could get a better job, and I think he'd end up connecting with the people there just as well and as easily as he did at his current job.  He's always had good relationships with employers and fellow employees.  It isn't that this job is irreplaceable in any way - it is.  But - do we want to make him have to replace it right now after the move?  That is the issue.

 

I hope that Aellwydd is right that he comes to his own conclusion to give notice if he has to.  We are not strong arm parents and we communicate very well with our kids.  He seemed to be in a much less upset and angry place this morning.  Actually acted normal.  It's possible he's already getting there on his own.

 

Ok - I have to quit obsessing on this.  Pleas do not feel I'm rude if I don't respond for a while - I've spent way too much time on the computer today.

 

Sailor, please forgive me for being less than kind in my posts to you.  I didn't mean to come off so critical; it's just that due to my own background where my parents moved us regularly around, I was and am inclined to empathize with your ds.  At one point, my parents moved us away from extended family, to keep a job because of a merger.  It was either move, or find a new job.

 

I don't blame them for that choice--it was the best one they could make. But, it meant our extended family were hundreds of miles away to thousands of miles away.  There was one Christmas--when I was 16 yo--where I did stay home while my family went to NJ to visit extended family. It was due to a job, like your ds' and it was retail, and I couldn't get the time off.  The difference was I was not brand new to the area, and I had a best friend whom I could stay with.  Also, I probably could have found another job fairly easily. 

 

I didn't even particularly like my job all that much--in truth, I'd have preferred to go.  However, I felt it would be wrong and irresponsible to blow off my job for what amounted to leisure. My parents both were hard workers, and modeled that. I didn't feel like I could respect myself if I chose to do the easy thing, and just quit a job and find another. Yes, it was young idealism. :)

 

My cousins and my aunt and uncle were disappointed, but they still have quite a good time anyway. And a few years later, my sister and I chose to take a trip up by ourselves and had a blast with the same relatives. But, I appreciated that my parents respected my decision. 

 

I know it's a lot harder, being that you're in a new area.  Have you offerred to help him job hunt?  Maybe if you found several opportunities, one might pique his interest.  What if he was able to find an internship doing something he found meaningful? Like, if he is into computers, you could help him find a way to find a web design internship, etc.  Even if it's unpaid, it's not like he really needs the money, per se. And he'd gain valuable experience.

 

If you took that track, then he might feel easier about letting this job go.  It may allow him to give himself permission, so-to-speak, to make the choice to quit.  I bet he'd probably prefer to go on the trip--he just doesn't have any viable options on his radar for social and work opportunities that he can see right now.

 

WRT extended family feelings, it's not that I don't value their feelings.  But, in my personal opinion, immediate family dynamics take precedence, i.e., your relationship with your ds.

 

 

 

[SailorMom]

I don't think it should matter if future employers care. The significant point is that your son does.

 

 

 Not that it isn't important, it is, especially to him.  But his future employers aren't going to care - even if they should.  That's just the way it is.

 

It is important to me and him, but it will not be important to future employers.  What part of that do you not understand?????

[Jenny in Florida]

You really aren't reading my posts are you?  You have an image in you head of me and our "military family' that rubs you the wrong way and are going with it all the way no matter what I say.  I'll reply to you one last time, but I'm pretty much writing you off after this as I can tell you aren't really reading.

I just said:

 

 Not that it isn't important, it is, especially to him.  But his future employers aren't going to care - even if they should.  That's just the way it is.

 

It is important to me and him, but it will not be important to future employers.  What part of that do you not understand?????

 

Actually, I have read every one of your posts quite carefully. In fact, I've gone back and re-read any to which I've responded to make sure I'm remembering them accurately.

 

I understood what you wrote perfectly. It doesn't change my point, which was that I think the emphasis in this situation shouldn't be on the empirical "value" of the job, whether that is about money now or a work history for the future. There shouldn't be any "but," as there is at the beginning of your sentence after the one you turned red.

 

And my opinion on this has nothing at all to do with what your husband does for a living. (You are far from the only military family I know. One of my favorite relatives has been in the Navy for a couple of decades, now.)

 

It looks to me, actually, as though you want very much to make this about me, to make it personal so that you can "write me off," which is, of course, your choice to make. I got involved only because I felt for your son and was hoping I could help you to see the situation from another point of view. Obviously, I can't.

 

I'm certain you won't believe me, but I truly was trying to help.

[SailorMom]

 

 

 

I know it's a lot harder, being that you're in a new area.  Have you offerred to help him job hunt?  Maybe if you found several opportunities, one might pique his interest.  What if he was able to find an internship doing something he found meaningful? Like, if he is into computers, you could help him find a way to find a web design internship, etc.  Even if it's unpaid, it's not like he really needs the money, per se. And he'd gain valuable experience.

 

If you took that track, then he might feel easier about letting this job go.  It may allow him to give himself permission, so-to-speak, to make the choice to quit.  I bet he'd probably prefer to go on the trip--he just doesn't have any viable options on his radar for social and work opportunities that he can see right now.

 

That is a great suggestion.  Thank you :)

[Aelwydd]

Wow - really?  I get you "don't blame us" - but would you really let 17 years of job history, all of your DH's pay, and your health benefits go?  This is not just about retirement.  We can't afford to live if DH quits this job.  And being a special operations pilot is a bit of a niche job.  Kinda hard to find work in that field in the private sector.  And if you think our retirement plan isn't important - uh - I'm not willing to stick our kids with supporting us because we decided to go bankrupt and not get all the retirement my DH's has been working for his whole working life.

You said you would make the same choice, but we didn't have a choice, really.  I mean - sure  - go bankrupt, lose our house, go on government assistance.  Yeah - great choice that.

And whether it is fair or not - my DS's job is less important by far and away, and even he would agree with that.

 

No, I wouldn't let it go.  Even if I could find the same pay and health benefits elsewhere, I wouldn't let 17 years of retirement go.  I would have made the same choice, 100 times over.

 

I didn't mean to imply that the decision to go was made lightly or that there weren't serious financial considerations behind it. 

 

What I was pointing out to Martha is that financial considerations are often not the only factor that goes into keeping a job or not.  I tried to expound on that in my most recent post, and I hope that my meaning in clearer there.

[SailorMom]

Jenny - I went back and removed part of my post because I knew I was letting my emotions get the best of me.

I still do not feel you are hearing me, but that's silly to argue.

I also would love a world in which that "but" wasn't necessary - but in reality it is.  Better to face that fact and deal with it than deny its existence.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I think the fact that this trip was already planned when ds took this job is really, really important. He should have made arrangements for his known needs before accepting the job. Going in he knew about the trip and should have taken the responsibility to plan for it. To me this is similar to an employer trying to insist that he must work during the school day; he may want to keep his job and make his employer happy, but as a minor child he goes where his family goes and completes school requirements ahead of employer requests. Just like he would tell his employer he couldn't work during the school day, he should tell his employer he cannot work while he is gone with his family on a trip. It really stinks if that leads to him having to resign his position, but he not yet an independent adult.

 

Not a valid comparison in any way, shape, or form.  Employers know that high school students attend high school.  They cannot anticipate needing to give an employee 14 days around a busy time of year to go on a trip with mommy and daddy.

[WagsWife]

My husband has spent many holidays and special events deployed.  We have also not been able to have a "family" (with extended family) Christmas since right after we were married because we lived too far away.  If we were in the same situation as your family, our child would be asked to quit the job.  I would be as understanding as possible, and I would offer to pay him myself until he could find another job after Christmas...but bottom line--he would go.  You never know when or IF you will get this opportunity again.  Next year, your husband may be deployed, the year after that your son may be in a job that is too important to his livelihood to give up.  I would not allow your family to miss out on a special time like this for a $90 a week job he has only had for 2 months.  If he was working his DREAM job, then I would have more empathy, but unless he has been dying to wait tables at Red Lobster since he was 12...he would be looking elsewhere after the new year.   

 

As for the posters comparing the importance of your son's job with your husband's...there is no comparison.  Period.  Seventeen years in a career where refusing to move leads to a substantial loss of income your entire life, loss of important medical benefits, and depending on what state you retire from...loss of potential education benefits for your children...in no way compares to a 17 year old's 2 month work record in a min wage job. 

[AnneBlessedx4]

We have been in a  similar situation.  FIL has ALS and our time with him is limited.  We encouraged ds (now 20) to ask for the time off, with the plan of calling in and facing the consequences.  This is also one reason ds 17 is not working beyond mowing yards right now.  We have grands in bad health and really want the kids to be available for the next few months.  They are good with this.  DS 20 is now at a place where he can't take too much time off, but thankfully where he works is closed on Thanksgiving/Christmas.  I feel for ya.

 

My in laws are only 2 hrs away, but when ds couldn't get off work and it wasn't an emergency, dh took the other kids and I stayed home.  I would def do that for a holiday, or we would all stay home.  :(

[Firefly]

I don't envy you this situation, SailorMom.  I dread the day I find myself facing the same (in the not too distant future, sadly-- DS is 16 in December, and has only had summer jobs at this point).  It will be heartbreaking to have one or both of my children miss the holidays with us.  Of course you expect that possibility when they're adults and have their own families, but not when they're still living at home.  I've been thinking a lot about this thread and what I would do, and ultimately --as hard as it would be-- yes,  I'd let him make the decision.  If he made the decision to quit and come along to the family function, I'd be thrilled, but if not, I would accept it, however difficult it was for me to do.  At that age I feel I really need to respect his decision with something like this.  HOWEVER, it's only theoretical for me at this point, so take that into consideration. ;)

 

I hope you figure something out that works for your situation and family.  Hugs to you!

 

 

[Mom23Boys]

I don't really have any practical advice, because I have never been there. We live in the same town we grew up in, next door to my IL's and 3 miles from my mom (my dad is deceased).

And, my kids are 11, 9 and 6, so not working yet.

 

But, I wanted to share my Christmas story. Feel free to share with your son if you want.

 

2 Christmases ago, my DH had to work on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and the 2 days following. We did our Christmas with our kids on the 23rd. When Christmas morning rolled around, I really thought it would be no big deal. I am used to shift work, but that was the first time he had to work Christmas and couldn't get out of it. I had an extremely difficult day. Even though my DH was 45 minutes away abd would be home that night and I had IL's (I am very close to them), nieces, siblings, my mom, etc. I still was so lonely. I was not expecting that. It felt off not to have him there. I dealt with it and wasn't in tears or anything, but I hated it. I am worried your son may discount the impact of being alone on Christmas Day. I have a brother who lives 24 hours away and a sister who lives 6 hours away (both married). Their first Christmases away were difficult for them too.

 

My DH has to work Christmas again this year, nights this time. I am not thrilled, but I am better prepared this year.

That first year surprised me. I really thought I would be okay.

 

I wouldn't want to emotionally blackmail my son, and maybe he would be fine, we are all different, but I would be worried. With that said, he is almost an adult, so I could see going both ways. Forcing him to go or giving him a choice. Good luck with your decision.

[abacus2]

Not a valid comparison in any way, shape, or form.  Employers know that high school students attend high school.  They cannot anticipate needing to give an employee 14 days around a busy time of year to go on a trip with mommy and daddy.

 

I acknowledged that this situation may result in ds needing to resign his position. I don't maintain that employers must accommodate minor students' schedules, rather that minor students don't have the freedom to meet the employer's every request. They don't have the freedom to skip school, and they don't have the freedom to operate independent of their immediate families.  

 

Re anticipating the 14 days, the employer could have been made aware of this need up front so that this situation didn't occur. This could have been resolved, or not, at the time of potential hire.

 

I would expect any family member considering optional employment to be proactive in planning around already planned major family events.

[Haiku]

I'm frustrated by the posters who dismiss the decision because of the low pay and low role of the job: it is NOT THE POINT AT ALL of this dilemma.

 

It may not be the whole point, but it is part of the point. I know that some people espouse the idea that all options, all choices, and all actions are equally valid, but I don't believe that is true. Some things simply matter more than others. This is a multi-faceted issue that the OP is facing, and yes, the fact that it is a low-wage, low-skill, replaceable job is indeed a factor. Young adults are notorious for making decisions based on little more than the immediate context, without much thought to the larger picture. Having parented a teen through to college, I have found that it is a balance between allowing them to make their own choices (even when they aren't what I would choose) and insisting that they sometimes make the choice I believe is right because I have a longer view or more stake in the situation or whatever.

[SailorMom]

 

 

Re anticipating the 14 days, the employer could have been made aware of this need up front so that this situation didn't occur. This could have been resolved, or not, at the time of potential hire.

 

I would expect any family member considering optional employment to be proactive in planning around already planned major family events.

The place he works has a rolling online calendar that they use for time off.  DS was told he had to wait until the right time to take the days off....

[JustEm]

All I know is that having my parents trust me to make important decisions, like the one you ds is faced with, on my own as a teenager was a huge factor in why I've succeeded so much in life.  Of course I made some really shitty mistakes as a young adult but I also made some fantastic ones.  I learned from both the good and bad and am a better person because of all of it.  

 

As a parent though, I would absolutely take my child's feelings in this situation more seriously than other none immediate family members, especially if this job is one of the only things he feels he has going for him right now.  I think the impact of him losing that would be much worse than some family members getting their feelings hurt 

[linders]

We actually offered to pay for his gas and help him find yard work and babysitting jobs through my DH's squadron in order to keep our schedules more flexible, but he insisted on this job. 

 

I've followed this thread with interest - been there/done that myself when I was an older teen, and I'm sure it will come up when my boys are older, but this comment caught my eye...

 

Sure, the yard work/babysitting jobs might be more flexible, and even pay more, but they reek of "teenager." 14-year-olds babysit, 15-year-olds do yard work. They don't get a true paycheck with taxes, social security, and all the rest, they don't involve a manager and colleagues treating you more like an adult than a kid (and having adult expectations, like work hours near holidays). I can see the appeal to your son, and I encourage you to appreciate it also, whatever the outcome of the holiday dilemma.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I don't think it should matter if future employers care. The significant point is that your son does.

 

Future employers may not care, but it sounds like he has an excellent reputation in the job he's currently in, and the recommendations and connections that may come from his managers and colleagues could be extremely valuable, particularly in this day and age where jobs for teens are relatively scarce, and teens who are responsible enough to fill those jobs seem to be even scarcer. Good job connections shouldn't be underestimated, even when you're 17.

 

Thinking back to the jobs I had in my teens years...I had a job that was pretty much my "home" too. I did try out two or three other jobs during those years, and while jobs at the mall were plentiful, jobs where I felt at home and was highly regarded were not. FWIW.

 

In your situation, I wouldn't let him stay home the full two weeks, but I would let him stay home for part of the time and fly out for as many days as he could outside of his required scheduled days. I'd find the money, even if means him spending every penny he makes during that period helping pay for the ticket. IMO, the hassle and cost are worth it. 

[abacus2]

The place he works has a rolling online calendar that they use for time off.  DS was told he had to wait until the right time to take the days off....

 

I am not surprised. Employers like to avoid having any discussions about specific time off because then they have to grant it or say no and risk not filling a needed position. It leaves them in the position of power and employees in your son's situation. When I was young and got a fast food job I filled out the application stating what days I was available. They hired me and almost immediately scheduled me for a day I had put that I was unavailable. Because they had hired me without questioning my availability, they honored it when I held them to it, but if I had asked after my hire there is no way I would have worked the schedule I wanted.

[Joanne]

All I know is that having my parents trust me to make important decisions, like the one you ds is faced with, on my own as a teenager was a huge factor in why I've succeeded so much in life.  Of course I made some really shitty mistakes as a young adult but I also made some fantastic ones.  I learned from both the good and bad and am a better person because of all of it.  

 

As a parent though, I would absolutely take my child's feelings in this situation more seriously than other none immediate family members, especially if this job is one of the only things he feels he has going for him right now.  I think the impact of him losing that would be much worse than some family members getting their feelings hurt 

 

 

Me, too.

 

That, and the fact that there *isn't* a "right" decision in this case. I defend the young man's stated desire not because of the status of his job, or because leaving this job will have "professional" impact later. I defend this young man because, developmentally, he is at an age to make his own decisions in this regard. I defend this young man because he's shown great self-awareness to identify something he is feeling secure and centered by. I defend this young man because you can't teach "family is more important" by making a teen do something they have a reasonable case against doing.

 

My feel for this case isn't so much that he'll regret it but that the parents want the child to chose differently. I have one adult and one coming up quick (same age as the young man in the OP). I'm not inexperienced with the challenges of decisions, autonomy, mistakes. It can get complicated, and it can hurt when the adult/near adult makes a choice that seemingly goes against the values I've tried to model. My kids, though, have their own life path and that includes increasingly more say in major decisions, their day, their time, their resources.