I've totally ruined my children!

[happyWImom]

I've discovered that they (especially my dd) cannot think on her own.  

 

It's 4H record book time, and I feel like I am having to feed them every.single.answer!!! :banghead:   Somehow, I have done everything for them & not taught them how to think for themselves.  

 

In school, dd is one that needs a lot of one on one work, and now I am wondering how to reverse that, and to help her.  I need to add some critical thinking skills to our hs.  

[idnib]

I felt this way a bit today. We found some stilts I had bought too early when the kids were too small for them. I got them out and gave them to the kids to use after giving them a demonstration. They just stood there like I was going to help them figure out how to walk on low stilts. They wanted me to help them walk, hold the sides, explain how to balance, when to lift their feet etc. They wanted me to spoon feed them the whole "stilts experience" I guess.

 

Finally I said, "You're kids. These are fun stilts. They have no moving parts. Figure out how to use them, or don't."

 

They're still unused.

 

I mean, they're stilts. No one can use them for you. Kids are supposed to jump on and figure it out.  :001_huh: Right?

[KrissiK]

That's one thing about homeschooling - the kids have access to one on one attention most of the time and expect that sort of treatment. A kid in a class of 30 knows he won't get much of the teacher's attention, so he figures things out for himself. I struggle with this everyday. My dd wants me to hover and hold her hand and the drama escalates when I expect her to just sit and do her work.

[rdj2027]

Bummer, I thought that attitude was due to my children spending too many years in public school and the notion that everything is too dangerous unless properly supervised by an adult.

[bethben]

I am finding the "help me" battle gets worse as they have moved to almost independent learning.  Ds had a bit of it last year when he was 12 and is now trying it again at 13.  He asked for help on questions in his science book a few times already.  I told him that I would have to read the sections he just read for myself and he could do that just as easily.  I'm no longer an answer machine because I am not studying the textbook with him.  He did find the answer.  Amazing. :glare: My attitude is now, "The answer is there.  Find it."

 

Beth

[Snowfall]

My 9yo dd is like that, too. She went to public school last year, and I really worried about how that would go for her, but she managed. Now, she did lose recess constantly for not finishing work on time, but she has a pretty bad processing speed deficit, and it wasn't because she was refusing to work. She was always working, just too slowly for them, and they refused to accommodate in any way.

[Pen]

Go very slowly.  Ponder.  Think.   Say things like,

 

"well, hmmm, let's see,  maybe you need to put your name somewhere..., let's see, how does your name get spelled, ummm, gosh, I think I have a headache today and am finding it hard to think.   What does this say?   ...   oh.    'How many eggs did our rooster lay?'    Oh, wait, no, it must say sonething else.  Can you read it to me?    Oh!  That makes more sense.    What do you think we should put there?     Well,  I'm not sure either,  maybe we should leave it blank...  what about the next one?    .... gosh, no, I'm not sure what to put there, do you have any ideas?  No?  Well, I guess we maybe should leave that blank too.  This sure seems like a hard form.   Wow!   I guess we are going to have to spend the whole day figuring it out.  Do you see any questions that look easy?   ..."

 

Don't make getting the answers from you faster and easier than doing it themselves.   They may decide they can do it at that point.

[Pen]

Or try something like for every question they manage to fill in on their own, you help them with one they are really having trouble with, and explain how to go about getting the answer, then expect them to do that for another question on their own.

[happyWImom]

Go very slowly.  Ponder.  Think.   Say things like,

 

"well, hmmm, let's see,  maybe you need to put your name somewhere..., let's see, how does your name get spelled, ummm, gosh, I think I have a headache today and am finding it hard to think.   What does this say?   ...   oh.    'How many eggs did our rooster lay?'    Oh, wait, no, it must say sonething else.  Can you read it to me?    Oh!  That makes more sense.    What do you think we should put there?     Well,  I'm not sure either,  maybe we should leave it blank...  what about the next one?    .... gosh, no, I'm not sure what to put there, do you have any ideas?  No?  Well, I guess we maybe should leave that blank too.  This sure seems like a hard form.   Wow!   I guess we are going to have to spend the whole day figuring it out.  Do you see any questions that look easy?   ..."

 

Don't make getting the answers from you faster and easier than doing it themselves.   They may decide they can do it at that point.

You are obviously a patient woman!  My response to the whole experience today was "I want to blow my brains out!"   Not my finest moment. :blushing:

 

Yes, you are totally correct on the whole getting answers faster from me is the easiest thing.  That is my dd's MO with most things.  I need to give her the proper tools so that she can learn to figure them out on her own.

[happyWImom]

I am finding the "help me" battle gets worse as they have moved to almost independent learning.  Ds had a bit of it last year when he was 12 and is now trying it again at 13.  He asked for help on questions in his science book a few times already.  I told him that I would have to read the sections he just read for myself and he could do that just as easily.  I'm no longer an answer machine because I am not studying the textbook with him.  He did find the answer.  Amazing. :glare: My attitude is now, "The answer is there.  Find it."

 

Beth

That is why I want her to do some textbooky stuff, because I can plead ignorance!  I think they've been spoiled, because we haven't done much "read this, fill in that" type thing, and they get lazy.

[JessReplanted]

This is funny! I'm sure they are not ruined. ;)

Last year when I gave my two older kids their spelling books, they both completely ignored the spelling lists on the first lesson, and came up with all of their own words to plug into the answers.

I just couldn't believe it, and I thought "Oh no, homeschooling has made them so independent

and creative that they can't even use a spelling workbook correctly!" :lol:

[Jayne J]

SWB, in her very helpful lecture, "Teaching Students to Work Independently," suggests laying out a number of reward treats, like chocolate chips or M&Ms, and then telling the child that you will eat one every time they ask for help. Whatever is left at the end of the assignment they may eat. I thought it was genius and plan to use it this year with my oldest.

[musicianmom]

This is not limited to hs kids. As early as fifth grade, though it probably started earlier, kids would get permission from the teacher to come to me for "help" with their work. Because the teacher was incompetent and a pushover, she would let them. The work they needed "help" with was just basic reading the text and answering the questions. The only way to help is to point to the paragraph containing the answer, or just tell the answer as my classmates expected me to do. My refusal to cheat in that manner did not help my already existing social difficulties.

 

Ok, that got way off topic, but I've already typed it on an iPad, so it's staying.

[happyWImom]

SWB, in her very helpful lecture, "Teaching Students to Work Independently," suggests laying out a number of reward treats, like chocolate chips or M&Ms, and then telling the child that you will eat one every time they ask for help. Whatever is left at the end of the assignment they may eat. I thought it was genius and plan to use it this year with my oldest.

I love this idea!  I am going to check it out, thanks.

[Tracy]

Teaching critical thinking skills really has to be something that you do all the time as part of life.  My kids come to me all the time saying things like "I'm hungry."  I noticed that I was responding by either offering something to eat or explaining why they couldn't have something to eat.  So I am trying hard to respond instead by saying, "So what are you going to do about that?"  At first, they just said, "I don't know."  They couldn't even figure out that they needed to ask for something to eat.  Now they are starting to actually ask for something to eat.  If it is close to dinner, they ask for something healthy so it doesn't matter if they ruin their appetite for dinner.  

 

Last year, I discovered that dd8 would come to the table to do WWE, and just sit there with the blank form in front of her.  Even though she always had to write her name and date first every time, she wouldn't do it until I told her to.  Instead of telling her to, I started to ask her what she needed to do.  Eventually, I told her that I expected her to come to the table and figure out that she needed to do that on her own.  

We need to do this all the time.  We need to ask, "Why?" and "How?" and "What next?" as matter of course in everything we do.  "Why do you think that car is going so slowly?"  Why do you think the water bubbles when it gets hot?"  "Why do you think the price of gas suddenly went up $.50/gal?"  "Why didn't people treat the Vietnam Vets as heroes like they did the vets of previous wars?"  "What else needs to get done before breakfast?"

[Mom0012]

I've discovered that they (especially my dd) cannot think on her own.

 

It's 4H record book time, and I feel like I am having to feed them every.single.answer!!! :banghead: Somehow, I have done everything for them & not taught them how to think for themselves.

 

In school, dd is one that needs a lot of one on one work, and now I am wondering how to reverse that, and to help her. I need to add some critical thinking skills to our hs.

They are still young, and if they haven't had a lot of experience filling out worksheets, it's a new skill for them.

 

We've always used SL science, but last year was the first year I actually had them do the worksheets. It was SL 5 on the human body and I had my 5th and 7th grader complete it. I think it was really worthwhile because they had no experience in this area at all.

 

I've been working with my son on some of the Boy Scout badges that don't really have a merit badge counselor actively teaching the subject and have felt the same way as you, though! It can take him forever to formulate his thoughts and get them on paper. He is improving, though.

[Mom22ns]

My kids, having been in ps when they were younger, NEVER ask questions. They told me that in ps they were supposed to sit down and shut up. It took me years to convince them to ask questions at all.

 

Dd would like math answers spoon fed to her, but does fine with everything else. After 6 years of homeschooling ds is still reluctant to ask a question and will try forever to figure it out first. I keep trying to train them when asking is the right thing to do. Their college professors are not going to sit and watch for them to get stuck. <sigh>

[Jayne J]

I have the same conversations with my children--

"Mom, I'm thirsty."

 

"And?"

 

"I want a drink."

 

"And?"

 

"Uhhhh...."

 

It can be maddening. If you are thirsty kiddo, get a drink for heaven's sake! Apparently I have been doing FAR too much for them. I like your response Tracy--it is going into rotation at my house!

[idnib]

SWB, in her very helpful lecture, "Teaching Students to Work Independently," suggests laying out a number of reward treats, like chocolate chips or M&Ms, and then telling the child that you will eat one every time they ask for help. Whatever is left at the end of the assignment they may eat. I thought it was genius and plan to use it this year with my oldest.

 

 

But I'm trying to lose weight!  :laugh:

 

Just kidding, I'd probably only have to do this for a day. Great idea.

[happyWImom]

I have the same conversations with my children--

"Mom, I'm thirsty."

 

"And?"

 

"I want a drink."

 

"And?"

 

"Uhhhh...."

 

It can be maddening. If you are thirsty kiddo, get a drink for heaven's sake! Apparently I have been doing FAR too much for them. I like your response Tracy--it is going into rotation at my house!

This makes me feel so much better!  

 

I guess I'm still in the baby/toddler mode with them or something.  I never thought I was one of those mom's who says "It's easier to just do it myself", but I must have that mentality. :(    Time to start changing.

[happyWImom]

Teaching critical thinking skills really has to be something that you do all the time as part of life.  My kids come to me all the time saying things like "I'm hungry."  I noticed that I was responding by either offering something to eat or explaining why they couldn't have something to eat.  So I am trying hard to respond instead by saying, "So what are you going to do about that?"  At first, they just said, "I don't know."  They couldn't even figure out that they needed to ask for something to eat.  Now they are starting to actually ask for something to eat.  If it is close to dinner, they ask for something healthy so it doesn't matter if they ruin their appetite for dinner.  

 

Last year, I discovered that dd8 would come to the table to do WWE, and just sit there with the blank form in front of her.  Even though she always had to write her name and date first every time, she wouldn't do it until I told her to.  Instead of telling her to, I started to ask her what she needed to do.  Eventually, I told her that I expected her to come to the table and figure out that she needed to do that on her own.  

 

We need to do this all the time.  We need to ask, "Why?" and "How?" and "What next?" as matter of course in everything we do.  "Why do you think that car is going so slowly?"  Why do you think the water bubbles when it gets hot?"  "Why do you think the price of gas suddenly went up $.50/gal?"  "Why didn't people treat the Vietnam Vets as heroes like they did the vets of previous wars?"  "What else needs to get done before breakfast?"

You are so right-I need to be conscious of this all of the time.  I guess I've taken the easy route, because it's faster!

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Don't have time to read the whole thread (but I'll come back later to read the advice!), but you're not alone. My oldest is the same way. She recently stood in front of the open fridge and said, "I can't find the cream cheese!" I could see it from where I was sitting (across the kitchen), and the fridge was half empty. I told her it was a shiny silver package, and she needed to keep looking, maybe move some things around. Still nothing. I said, maybe look around, over, under things? Still nothing, can I help her? She finally found it on her own, but honestly! She also searched the house for 5 minutes after standing in front of me saying she couldn't find the vacuum. The vacuum that was visible directly behind my head. We had to MAKE her keep looking. 

 

I think  there's a large personality component too, because my youngest isn't like that. She blows full speed ahead into everything she does--when she was little that was worse, but nowadays I'm finding that it's a good thing (usually). 

[mom2hunangirls]

Don't have time to read the whole thread (but I'll come back later to read the advice!), but you're not alone. My oldest is the same way. She recently stood in front of the open fridge and said, "I can't find the cream cheese!" I could see it from where I was sitting (across the kitchen), and the fridge was half empty. I told her it was a shiny silver package, and she needed to keep looking, maybe move some things around. Still nothing. I said, maybe look around, over, under things? Still nothing, can I help her? She finally found it on her own, but honestly! She also searched the house for 5 minutes after standing in front of me saying she couldn't find the vacuum. The vacuum that was visible directly behind my head. We had to MAKE her keep looking.

 

I think there's a large personality component too, because my youngest isn't like that. She blows full speed ahead into everything she does--when she was little that was worse, but nowadays I'm finding that it's a good thing (usually).

This sounds like my husband! :0

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

This sounds like my husband! :0

 

:lol: Several other people have said the same thing to me when I've told them the cream cheese story!

[happyWImom]

:iagree:  :lol:  :lol:

This sounds like my husband! :0

 

[Jayne J]

But I'm trying to lose weight! :laugh:

 

Just kidding, I'd probably only have to do this for a day. Great idea.

Well, I suppose you could use dimes or nickels.

Don't eat them of course.

'Cause that would be silly.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I felt this way a bit today. We found some stilts I had bought too early when the kids were too small for them. I got them out and gave them to the kids to use after giving them a demonstration. They just stood there like I was going to help them figure out how to walk on low stilts. They wanted me to help them walk, hold the sides, explain how to balance, when to lift their feet etc. They wanted me to spoon feed them the whole "stilts experience" I guess.

 

Finally I said, "You're kids. These are fun stilts. They have no moving parts. Figure out how to use them, or don't."

 

They're still unused.

 

I mean, they're stilts. No one can use them for you. Kids are supposed to jump on and figure it out.  :001_huh: Right?

 

We have unused stilts too *sigh*

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

We need to do this all the time.  We need to ask, "Why?" and "How?" and "What next?" as matter of course in everything we do.  "Why do you think that car is going so slowly?"  Why do you think the water bubbles when it gets hot?"  "Why do you think the price of gas suddenly went up $.50/gal?"  "Why didn't people treat the Vietnam Vets as heroes like they did the vets of previous wars?"  "What else needs to get done before breakfast?"

 

This is brilliant. I need to remember this.

 

But I'm trying to lose weight!  :laugh:

 

Just kidding, I'd probably only have to do this for a day. Great idea.

 

 

:lol: I thought the same thing! Actually, I'm trying to reduce the amount of sugar we all eat, so I don't think I can pull that out here. It might work with screen time tokens in 2-minute increments though!

 

This makes me feel so much better!  

 

I guess I'm still in the baby/toddler mode with them or something.  I never thought I was one of those mom's who says "It's easier to just do it myself", but I must have that mentality. :(    Time to start changing.

 

Yeah, I recently realized this myself. I never managed to transition out of that "Ask me anything; I can provide the answer for you!" mindset. I'm still on autopilot for that. I can't tell you how many times I've given the kids an answer for something or handed them something, then realized as they walked away, "Why didn't I tell them to solve that problem on their own?!" It's hard.

[T'smom]

I used to get this all the time when I taught 5th grade. "I don't know how to do this." "Did you read it?" "Yes." "Read it to me." They'd read a few sentences realize it was totally obvious and say "ooooohhhhh, I get it now" when I literally did nothing but have them read it. They obviously had not read it the first time. That is seriously time consuming when you have a class full of 5th graders, and although it improved some over the course of the year it never completely went away!

 

Mine are still little, but I do often ask "hmmm, that is quite a problem....how are you going to solve it?"

[Pen]

You are obviously a patient woman!  My response to the whole experience today was "I want to blow my brains out!"   Not my finest moment. :blushing:

 

Yes, you are totally correct on the whole getting answers faster from me is the easiest thing.  That is my dd's MO with most things.  I need to give her the proper tools so that she can learn to figure them out on her own.

 

 

In this post I am assuming that they probably can figure out what to do (or at least can do so for much of it) if you do not step in to help.  Maybe that means thinking it through, consulting with sibling, reading the 4H materials, reviewing something in a math book, looking something up in a dictionary.  And maybe that means something like calling a friend and asking the friend how to do it.  Or maybe it even means taking responsibility for a poor record book.

 

I think your response and feelings may be similar to what one faces when  a child throws a tantrum in a public place--because both are a form of the child controlling the  parent and the parent feels upset by it.   And the short term easy solution is to give in.  But the harder solution, to wait it out without giving in, or to take the child home without getting to do the activity, or whatever suits the situation that is not capitulating makes life easier in the long run.   For both the child and the parent.

  

 

I think the H for Help part of 4H makes sense, but Help is not the same as do it for someone.  As much as possible it should be the child's Hands, the child's Head doing the work.   If you get a legitimate request for Help with something the child does not know how to do, then, more of what I put in my second post, I would show the child how to do it--and then expect the child to practice doing whatever it is, so he/she can do it him/herself from then on.  But getting answers from you will be the easiest way unless you stop giving the answers.  And yes, it is probably an MO--though not probably an intentional negative thing as the term implies, but rather just a habit that has developed, a kind of learned helplessness, perhaps.  You could analogize to tying shoe laces, perhaps.   Short term, you can do it faster than the child can.  But at a certain point, you show the child how, and then you step back while the child tries it, maybe over and over, maybe with some knots, maybe with some frequent comings undone, but chances are if you stop doing it for the child, if the child has reasonably normal physical and mental capacities, the child will catch on with practice.  And he/she will gain a skill and confidence, while you get freed up for something else.

[Pen]

... Somehow, I have done everything for them & not taught them how to think for themselves.  

 

... how to reverse that, and to help her.  I need to add some critical thinking skills to our hs.  

 

 

No.  See, I think you are caught in the Mindset of what you think you have to do.  How you have to teach the child to think.   How you need to help.  I do think critical thinking is important and a good thing to have in HS....     BUT, I do not think this is  a situation where you have to do anything to directly help her/them, so much as you have to stop your own habitual MO of stepping in with the answers, and then feeling angry about it.   And even need to stop a probably habitual MO of seeing a problem and looking for a curriculum to fix it.

 

Tell yourself your child IS perfectly capable of thinking.  

 

Stop thinking for her (and trust that that will help her learn to think for herself).   Let her find her own thinking even if it takes a while.   She probably did not get good at walking in a day either, but at some point you may well have refused to carry her and insisted that she was capable of walking and needed to do it.  

 

 I suggested some of the specific way of hemming and hawing because my experience is that can be more useful and leave the child feeling good about taking it over and figuring it out him/herself than saying outright, "this is your responsibility."   Though really it is the same thing, somehow the one tends to feel more supportive, the other tends to feel more critical.

 

And yes, it does take some patience.  But again, the long term results are worth it.

 

 

 

[Alte Veste Academy]

I have the same conversations with my children--

"Mom, I'm thirsty."

 

"And?"

 

"I want a drink."

 

"And?"

 

"Uhhhh...."

 

It can be maddening. If you are thirsty kiddo, get a drink for heaven's sake! Apparently I have been doing FAR too much for them. I like your response Tracy--it is going into rotation at my house!

 

We play a variation on this called "I Bought You a Water Bottle; Use It." We live in the desert. Almost every single day, for months on end, it is anywhere from 100-115 degrees, mostly in the 110 range it seems. It is very easy to dehydrate in this kind of heat. Last spring, when we moved here, I got us all the best water bottles money can buy. They keep ice water cold for 24 hours, even in the heat. I take mine everywhere. I am never without it. For more than a year, I reminded them to fill their water bottles every single time we left the house, so that when they were thirsty, they would have water. Yet invariably, one or more would forget or just plain not bother every time. Then someone was always "DYING OF THIRST" and begging me for some of my water. "Just a SIP!? PLEASE, MOM!?! Next time, I PROMISE I will bring my water!" GLUG, GLUG, GLUG, GONE... I was too darn nice to them. "I have needs too, you know!" So I said that's it. Enough. Short of them literally dying of thirst, I told them that I will no longer share my water. I stopped reminding them to get their water bottle every time, but now they remember 99.9% of the time anyway, because Mom won't share anymore. When I stopped thinking for them AND stopped rescuing them, they took over those tasks for themselves...well, where water bottles are concerned. We still have other problems to conquer. LOL

 

And now you all know that I am pure evil. -_-

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

...I got us all the best water bottles money can buy. They keep ice water cold for 24 hours, even in the heat.

 

OK, this is completely off-topic, but would you share which water bottles these might be? I've been looking for something like this for awhile now but have had to resort to freezing half-full plastic bottles, then adding more water when we leave. I'd love to stop doing that.

 

Thanks Cruella!  :P

[Giraffe]

OK, this is completely off-topic, but would you share which water bottles these might be? I've been looking for something like this for awhile now but have had to resort to freezing half-full plastic bottles, then adding more water when we leave. I'd love to stop doing that.

 

Thanks Cruella! :P

I'm interested too. Summers here are brutal.

 

And I love the story!!

[Donna in Idaho]

On the one hand, I DO want my kids to come to me if they really need help, but I DON'T want them depending on me for every little thing -- they ARE going to move out someday. Hee hee! I try to determine which response is warranted:

 

"You know, I am totally confident you can solve this one on your own. Go try again." (most of the 'help' falls here!)

"Hmm, that is a problem. How are you going to solve it?"  (just needs a point in the right direction or more time to figure it out)

"You're right; that's tough. Let's see if we can walk through this together." (try to do this by asking more questions than giving out info)

 

One child in particular has the "I can't find it" syndrome. I usually say, "If I go there and look, and I find it, you owe me (a piece of your gum; a buck; an extra chore; etc). Do you want to got look again?" and she ALWAYS looks again (and finds it 99% of the time!).  :hurray:

[Alte Veste Academy]

OK, this is completely off-topic, but would you share which water bottles these might be? I've been looking for something like this for awhile now but have had to resort to freezing half-full plastic bottles, then adding more water when we leave. I'd love to stop doing that.

 

Thanks Cruella!  :p

I'm interested too. Summers here are brutal.

 

And I love the story!!

 

The insulated Klean Kanteen. I swear these things are magical! :)

[happyWImom]

No.  See, I think you are caught in the Mindset of what you think you have to do.  How you have to teach the child to think.   How you need to help.  I do think critical thinking is important and a good thing to have in HS....     BUT, I do not think this is  a situation where you have to do anything to directly help her/them, so much as you have to stop your own habitual MO of stepping in with the answers, and then feeling angry about it.   And even need to stop a probably habitual MO of seeing a problem and looking for a curriculum to fix it.

 

Tell yourself your child IS perfectly capable of thinking.  

 

Stop thinking for her (and trust that that will help her learn to think for herself).   Let her find her own thinking even if it takes a while.   She probably did not get good at walking in a day either, but at some point you may well have refused to carry her and insisted that she was capable of walking and needed to do it.  

 

 I suggested some of the specific way of hemming and hawing because my experience is that can be more useful and leave the child feeling good about taking it over and figuring it out him/herself than saying outright, "this is your responsibility."   Though really it is the same thing, somehow the one tends to feel more supportive, the other tends to feel more critical.

 

And yes, it does take some patience.  But again, the long term results are worth it.

You are so right!  I feel like I have to micromanage everything or it won't function.  Everything will break-down without my.....whatever.  And, it is quite exhausting.

[happyWImom]

In this post I am assuming that they probably can figure out what to do (or at least can do so for much of it) if you do not step in to help.  Maybe that means thinking it through, consulting with sibling, reading the 4H materials, reviewing something in a math book, looking something up in a dictionary.  And maybe that means something like calling a friend and asking the friend how to do it.  Or maybe it even means taking responsibility for a poor record book.

 

I think your response and feelings may be similar to what one faces when  a child throws a tantrum in a public place--because both are a form of the child controlling the  parent and the parent feels upset by it.   And the short term easy solution is to give in.  But the harder solution, to wait it out without giving in, or to take the child home without getting to do the activity, or whatever suits the situation that is not capitulating makes life easier in the long run.   For both the child and the parent.

  

 

I think the H for Help part of 4H makes sense, but Help is not the same as do it for someone.  As much as possible it should be the child's Hands, the child's Head doing the work.   If you get a legitimate request for Help with something the child does not know how to do, then, more of what I put in my second post, I would show the child how to do it--and then expect the child to practice doing whatever it is, so he/she can do it him/herself from then on.  But getting answers from you will be the easiest way unless you stop giving the answers.  And yes, it is probably an MO--though not probably an intentional negative thing as the term implies, but rather just a habit that has developed, a kind of learned helplessness, perhaps.  You could analogize to tying shoe laces, perhaps.   Short term, you can do it faster than the child can.  But at a certain point, you show the child how, and then you step back while the child tries it, maybe over and over, maybe with some knots, maybe with some frequent comings undone, but chances are if you stop doing it for the child, if the child has reasonably normal physical and mental capacities, the child will catch on with practice.  And he/she will gain a skill and confidence, while you get freed up for something else.

 

Regarding the 4H stuff-I told them that they are to be responsible for keeping records & info., and that I am giving them each a notebook, which they can use to write down whatever event & the date they do it, so they will have it all in one place.  Now, my usual MO would be to make sure they are constantly recording the info.!  But, I agree, one thing I am not doing for them is allowing them to fail.  And I know that that's the only way they will learn some things.  That is actually something I am trying to put into practice.  

Not that I want them to fail, but I am not trying to make things easier for them anymore.  Ex., my son is always late for piano lessons, because he takes forever to eat lunch, never has his piano bag together, and always has his head in the clouds.  Normally, I then will prod him throughout the meal, tell him what time it is (you have_ more minutes & then we're leaving), help him gather his stuff, etc... A few lessons ago, I told them exactly what time we had to leave for lessons, and said whoever (meaning him) wasn't ready would not only miss lessons, but would have to reimburse me, because I was still going to pay the teacher.    He made it by the skin of his teeth-but then the next time, he did much better.

[happyWImom]

We play a variation on this called "I Bought You a Water Bottle; Use It." We live in the desert. Almost every single day, for months on end, it is anywhere from 100-115 degrees, mostly in the 110 range it seems. It is very easy to dehydrate in this kind of heat. Last spring, when we moved here, I got us all the best water bottles money can buy. They keep ice water cold for 24 hours, even in the heat. I take mine everywhere. I am never without it. For more than a year, I reminded them to fill their water bottles every single time we left the house, so that when they were thirsty, they would have water. Yet invariably, one or more would forget or just plain not bother every time. Then someone was always "DYING OF THIRST" and begging me for some of my water. "Just a SIP!? PLEASE, MOM!?! Next time, I PROMISE I will bring my water!" GLUG, GLUG, GLUG, GONE... I was too darn nice to them. "I have needs too, you know!" So I said that's it. Enough. Short of them literally dying of thirst, I told them that I will no longer share my water. I stopped reminding them to get their water bottle every time, but now they remember 99.9% of the time anyway, because Mom won't share anymore. When I stopped thinking for them AND stopped rescuing them, they took over those tasks for themselves...well, where water bottles are concerned. We still have other problems to conquer. LOL

 

And now you all know that I am pure evil. -_-

No, I love this!  I've done the same thing with my dd, and you will think I'm even more evil.

 

Dd has lots of intestinal issues, and she is supposed to have a minimum of 8 glasses of water daily, record her stool samples, take Myralax daily, and a few other things.  When we first started this, I was making myself a wreck with the constant "Did you drink your water, How many glasses have you had, Drink your water!"  In addition to making sure she was recording her info. and taking the Myralax.  The thing was, she wouldn't always do everything.  And, she's going on 12, and if she doesn't drink the water and take the medicine, she has pain.  So finally, that's what I told her.  I said that I couldn't be the only one responsible for her health, and that she needed to do these things, or she would have pain, and while I would be sorry that she had the pain, only she can control it.  So I stopped the nagging, and guess what?  She is able to do it all.  Sometimes, she forgets, but then her body reminds her.

[Pen]

Regarding the 4H stuff-I told them that they are to be responsible for keeping records & info., and that I am giving them each a notebook, which they can use to write down whatever event & the date they do it, so they will have it all in one place.  Now, my usual MO would be to make sure they are constantly recording the info.!  But, I agree, one thing I am not doing for them is allowing them to fail.  And I know that that's the only way they will learn some things.  That is actually something I am trying to put into practice.  

Not that I want them to fail, but I am not trying to make things easier for them anymore.  Ex., my son is always late for piano lessons, because he takes forever to eat lunch, never has his piano bag together, and always has his head in the clouds.  Normally, I then will prod him throughout the meal, tell him what time it is (you have_ more minutes & then we're leaving), help him gather his stuff, etc... A few lessons ago, I told them exactly what time we had to leave for lessons, and said whoever (meaning him) wasn't ready would not only miss lessons, but would have to reimburse me, because I was still going to pay the teacher.    He made it by the skin of his teeth-but then the next time, he did much better.

 

 

Good!!!!!!

 

And BTW in re Oregon--it is POURING right now.

[Mommy22alyns]

I used to get this all the time when I taught 5th grade. "I don't know how to do this." "Did you read it?" "Yes." "Read it to me." They'd read a few sentences realize it was totally obvious and say "ooooohhhhh, I get it now" when I literally did nothing but have them read it. They obviously had not read it the first time. That is seriously time consuming when you have a class full of 5th graders, and although it improved some over the course of the year it never completely went away!

 

Mine are still little, but I do often ask "hmmm, that is quite a problem....how are you going to solve it?"

 

 

Now that sounds familiar!  I've had this scenario play out with Rebecca several times already in our 2 week old school year.   :glare:

[goldberry]

DD was doing Alg I last year.  She went about 20 lessons without needing help, then couldn't figure it out.  (We use Teaching Textbooks - they have a lecture plus each question has an explanation.  Each and every question.)   I had to go back through all those 20 lessons myself just to get caught up.  UGH.  Later I found out that she was not watching the explanations when she missed a question. ???!?   I think it was easier for her to just let me explain it.

 

This year, she is doing Alg II, a science competition where she is learning genetics, and a few other rather complicated things.  I had a long talk with her that she is at the level now that I can't just jump in and help her.  I don't intend to learn all the things she is learning, and go through every single lesson.  With math, if she has a problem, I'm going to have her watch the lectures AGAIN, watch the explanations AGAIN.  Unless it's just something blatently obvious, I won't be able to help her.  I just won't be able to.  If needed, I can get her tutoring, but now she knows that's whats on the line.

[happyWImom]

DD was doing Alg I last year.  She went about 20 lessons without needing help, then couldn't figure it out.  (We use Teaching Textbooks - they have a lecture plus each question has an explanation.  Each and every question.)   I had to go back through all those 20 lessons myself just to get caught up.  UGH.  Later I found out that she was not watching the explanations when she missed a question. ???!?   I think it was easier for her to just let me explain it.

 

This year, she is doing Alg II, a science competition where she is learning genetics, and a few other rather complicated things.  I had a long talk with her that she is at the level now that I can't just jump in and help her.  I don't intend to learn all the things she is learning, and go through every single lesson.  With math, if she has a problem, I'm going to have her watch the lectures AGAIN, watch the explanations AGAIN.  Unless it's just something blatently obvious, I won't be able to help her.  I just won't be able to.  If needed, I can get her tutoring, but now she knows that's whats on the line.

We use TT, too-I'm going to use your dd as an example, and make sure mine is watching the explanations-I could see her skipping them! :001_rolleyes:

[Critterfixer]

The spelling list thing makes me giggle. Yesterday the boys did a crossword, in which they were supposed to read the clues. They simply plugged in whatever spelling word seemed to fit the blanks, and some that didn't and wondered why it didn't work. Um, you have to read the directions, little boys.....

 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

The insulated Klean Kanteen. I swear these things are magical! :)

 

Thank you!