What do you consider "gifted"?

[Snowfall]

I'm curious how different people define it. Do you go by IQ scores? If so, do you refer only to the global score or do you consider subscores? And what kind of scores are we talking about here (use percentiles, since the different tests score slightly differently). Do you require a talent or special gift? Does the child have to appear gifted to anyone who met them or saw them doing academics? What do you mean when you call someone gifted?

[kroe1]

To me, gifted is a person who is extremely bright in multiple disciplines. Bright is a person who easily learns and makes good academic grades.

[Jilly]

This quote from Hoagie's Gifted page sums up to me what it means to be gifted:

 

"Giftedness is asynchronous development in which advanced cognitive abilities and heightened intensity combine to create inner experiences and awareness that are qualitatively different from the norm."

 

Of course there are many ways to define giftedness, and I do believe an IQ test is helpful in identifying these kids. However, this definition resonates with me. 

[Snowfall]

But at what point are cognitive abilities advanced enough to be considered gifted? This actually has no bearing on my life at all - I'm not trying to decide if I have a gifted child or not - I've just wondered about this ever since a discussion a couple of years ago in which some posters made a big point of saying that giftedness didn't start until some point long past when most people believe it does, and I've been curious about how people define it ever since then.

 

Also, for those who define it in terms of academic achievement well outside the norm, that excludes many kids whose IQ scores put then in the highly gifted range, but who have learning disabilities. So do you believe being 2E disqualifies one from being gifted, if the disability is bad enough to mask the intelligence? I'm so curious about all this and have been much too busy the last year or two to follow up on it, but I've been wondering. :)

[DianeW88]

I don't know how schools define it.  My son is considered gifted simply on the basis of his IQ score and how that is reflected in his school work.  He is ahead of his grade level in all subjects and always has been.

 

What's funny is that my father and I have the same IQ score as my son.  I, too, was considered gifted in school, which actually made it difficult for me.  I was always sent to the library...alone...during reading time, because in first grade, I was reading at a 7th grade level.  I was taken out of recess on M-W-F each week to study French with a few other kids in my elementary school.  That put me out of the loop socially, and made T-Th on the playground a little harder to negotiate for me.  Also, I was bored almost all of the time.  I mastered the material being presented, and always finished my seat work within ten minutes.  Thankfully, many of my teachers allowed me to read when I completed my assignments.  Some didn't, and that was hard.  If I hadn't been so concerned with being a "good girl", I'm sure I'm would have gotten in trouble.

 

The problem I now see in my son that I had as well, is that I never had to work to learn anything.  So when I finally did have to actually *gasp* STUDY for something....I hated it.  Being gifted made me very lazy in school.  It wasn't until I was placed into a private, challenging, high school that I woke up.  My grades suffered as a result of my laziness.  I finally woke up sometime in the middle of my sophomore year and learned how to study.  I regressed in college, as my freshman year was a complete review, and I had to pull my act together again when my classes started to require some attentiveness on my part.

 

What I have found that giftedness means for me is that I can pick up new things and concepts very quickly, I read scary fast, I have an excellent memory for facts, and I can wax the floor with people at Trivial Pursuit.  And that's giftedness for me in a nutshell. :D

 

So I don't think that grades are a reflection of intelligence.  They can be...but they don't have to be.  Non-gifted children can work hard and get straight As, and genius kids can fail...and often do, because the school system doesn't know how to deal with how they learn.  I think well recognized and established tests, administered by someone who knows what they're doing, are probably the best indication of raw intelligence and giftedness.  What the individual chooses to do with that is up to them.

[shawthorne44]

My personal opinion is that it is kids that have difficulty learning in the normal way.  But that learn well and quickly and beyond when either left to their own devices or merely exposed to the what needs to be learned.  I would tie Bright to academic achievement, but not gifted.  I am in Mensa, and in causal conversations with fellow members about half were labeled dim or put in the slow classes at some point during school.  (One of my motivators for homeschooling)  In fact, I thought it was interesting that the youngest Mensan ever admitted (it was a year-ish ago) was IQ tested because the doctor kept calling her slow and delayed. 

[AimeeM]

I do NOT lump giftedness in with academic achievement. You're right - that would mean most 2E children wouldn't "qualify", and I know many children with learning (dis)abilities who are sincerely gifted and highly intelligent. They just learn differently.

My daughter was recently accepted at a wonderful private school that recognizes this - it's a school for gifted dyslexic children. She would NEVER have been able to gain entrance to the purely gifted public school here (which requires scores in the 99th percentile, ACROSS THE BOARD, in all subjects, on whatever standardized test the schools mandate here).

I like the Hoagies quote posted above.

 

I'll say this, too: I'll never understand the public school's way of classifying gifted children. I know people who have children in the "gifted" program who admit readily that their child isn't gifted - they have great study habits, they are fairly intelligent, and they are very hard workers (which, frankly, will get you more in life than JUST being gifted), so the school classified them as gifted and sends them to a 30 minute class once a week.

[Embassy]

I agree with the Hoagies definition.  Gifted isn't advanced achievement.  It is a different way of interacting/seeing the world.  IQ scores can be helpful, but they are only part of the picture.  

 

I think this comparison between bright and gifted is helpful:  http://www.bownet.org/besgifted/brightvs.htm

[Crimson Wife]

Dr. Deborah Ruf has developed a "Levels of Giftedness" that is useful, but not perfect. Her levels 1 & 2 I would not personally consider gifted, but rather merely bright. http://www.talentigniter.com/ruf-estimates

[Dory]

IQ is considered simply an indicator of giftedness, not a definition of it. When IQ tests are done around here they tend to look for an IQ of around 130. I know in B.C. though that they look for much lower IQ scores. It's also hard to just simply define giftedness when talking about 2e kids.

This is from Alberta Education.

 

Gifted and talented children are those identified by professionally qualified people, who by virtue of outstanding abilities are capable of high performance.

These are children who require differentiated educational programs and /or services beyond those normally provided by the regular school program in order to realize their

contribution to self and society. Children capable of high performance include those with demonstrated achievement and /or potential ability in any of the following

areas, singly or in combination:

•general intellectual ability

•specific academic aptitude

•creative or productive thinking

•leadership ability

•visual and performance arts

•psychomotor ability

 

 

[go_go_gadget]

When I was in school, giftedness was assessed by IQ tests of various sorts, and no one seemed to think, as seems so common now, that to be ''gifted'' a child also had to have some sort of learning disability or other challenge. I was identified by testing as gifted, but I don't have any LD's or other challenges, so by today's standards I'm probably not gifted. My children are very like me, so while they work several grade levels ahead and are still accelerating--not plateauing--they're probably not ''gifted'' either. 

[DianeW88]

When I was in school, giftedness was assessed by IQ tests of various sorts, and no one seemed to think, as seems so common now, that to be ''gifted'' a child also had to have some sort of learning disability or other challenge. I was identified by testing as gifted, but I don't have any LD's or other challenges, so by today's standards I'm probably not gifted. My children are very like me, so while they work several grade levels ahead and are still accelerating--not plateauing--they're probably not ''gifted'' either. 

 

I agree with what you're saying.  Gifted children CAN have LDs or other problems that might make others not see them as gifted, but I don't think it's a requirement that to be gifted you have to so "different" that you're alienated from all your peers.

 

I was a very socially intuitive child, as is my son.  I had no problem making friends at all.  What I feel might have been a little different, is that I was the one who came up with whatever activity my friends and I engaged in, not them.  Yes, I was bossy, but I also tended to have more complex and fun ideas than they did.  We often "played" as though we were characters in books that I had read but my friends had not.

 

My son is much the same way.  He is 12, but most of his friends are 14.  He just interacts better with older kids.  And oddly enough, he is the leader of the group.  It absolutely baffles my dh as to why these kids consult with my son on what to do or play.  I think it's simply that gifted children tend to be leaders, and they also tend to come up with more complicated scenarios for play that the other children enjoy.

 

Now, although he is intellectually more comfortable with older kids, and he's very mature....he's still 12.  So we have to be very careful to not confuse what he's capable of understanding intellectually with what he's capable of handling emotionally.  It can be a fine line to walk sometimes, but because of my own life experiences...I'm very aware of it, and continually saying to my dh, "He's only 12...don't forget that."

 

 

 

 

[Snowfall]

Those two links are interesting. I can't decide how accurate they are. My childhood testing consistently put me well over the Level 5 benchmark score, but I don't know that I was doing many, if any of the things Ruf says a level 5 kid should do during toddlerhood. I know I was still frustrated with trying to write my name after I had turned 4. Maybe I have some undiagnosed LD or something, but I always did fine in school, so I was never tested beyond the requisite IQ testing to get and remain in the G&T program.

 

On both lists, I think it's safe to say that the effect an LD might have on a kid isn't accounted for at all. Regardless of how gifted you are, if you have a processing deficit or disability of some sort, you're probably going to need more than 1 or 2 repetitions to remember something. Or at least it seems that way to me.

 

I really wish I could remember who was so passionate about this topic in the thread I'm thinking of, but it was a long time ago.

 

I've never heard anyone say that giftedness requires an LD. Instead, I think the idea is that many LD kids are just very bright or gifted, but a generation ago, no one would've noticed them.

[go_go_gadget]

I agree with what you're saying.  Gifted children CAN have LDs or other problems that might make others not see them as gifted, but I don't think it's a requirement that to be gifted you have to so "different" that you're alienated from all your peers.

 

I was a very socially intuitive child, as is my son.  I had no problem making friends at all.  What I feel might have been a little different, is that I was the one who came up with whatever activity my friends and I engaged in, not them.  Yes, I was bossy, but I also tended to have more complex and fun ideas than they did.  We often "played" as though we were characters in books that I had read but my friends had not.

 

My son is much the same way.  He is 12, but most of his friends are 14.  He just interacts better with older kids.  And oddly enough, he is the leader of the group.  It absolutely baffles my dh as to why these kids consult with my son on what to do or play.  I think it's simply that gifted children tend to be leaders, and they also tend to come up with more complicated scenarios for play that the other children enjoy.

 

Now, although he is intellectually more comfortable with older kids, and he's very mature....he's still 12.  So we have to be very careful to not confuse what he's capable of understanding intellectually with what he's capable of handling emotionally.  It can be a fine line to walk sometimes, but because of my own life experiences...I'm very aware of it, and continually saying to my dh, "He's only 12...don't forget that."

 

I could have written every word of that, about myself and my kids. 

 

I think it's perfectly plausible that gifted kids are more than averagely likely to also have some kind of sensory disorder, or social issues, or LD's or whatever, but it seems like it's considered basically a prerequisite these days. 

[regentrude]

I go by the definition used back home in Germany: IQ>=130, i.e. 98th percentile.

Gifted is not the same as high achieving: some gifted kids are underachievers, and some good students are merely above average in IQ.

Some gifted kids may have LDs, many have not. It is more likely that a child is tested as gifted when it has other issues that motivate diagnostics; gifted kids without behavioral or learning issues often fly below the radar.

[texasmama]

 

I think this comparison between bright and gifted is helpful:  http://www.bownet.org/besgifted/brightvs.htm

This is very helpful and simple.  Five members of our family are on the left side of this table, and one member is on the right side.  It is an interesting ride having two parents on the left side parenting a child on the right side.  Very humbling, as well.  The "gifted" descriptions fits him as if I had written it with him as a model.  He has no LDs or special needs of any type.

 

Some of the gifted definitions/descriptions I have read put a lot of emphasis on achieving milestones extraordinarily early, which is no doubt part of the equation.  However, my gifted child was not my earliest reader, nor was said child precocious in reading.  His verbal and math abilities were very precocious.  He spoke in long, descriptive, complete sentences by 18 months.  He added up long strings of numbers in his head when he had just turned five. 

 

I've not ever had my gifted child IQ tested.  I'm not sure I see the point of it.

[ktgrok]

Dr. Deborah Ruf has developed a "Levels of Giftedness" that is useful, but not perfect. Her levels 1 & 2 I would not personally consider gifted, but rather merely bright. http://www.talentigniter.com/ruf-estimates

Huh...I score above level 5 by IQ test, but did none of the things listed. My son scores mid to high level 3 by IQ, but did NONE of the things listed.

 

Some kids just don't "show it".

[AimeeM]

I could have written every word of that, about myself and my kids. 

 

I think it's perfectly plausible that gifted kids are more than averagely likely to also have some kind of sensory disorder, or social issues, or LD's or whatever, but it seems like it's considered basically a prerequisite these days.

My experience has been the opposite - it's almost impossible for a child with a LD to gain entrance into a public school gifted program here because they use standardized testing and academic performance to determine eligibility (here, at least).

I certainly never meant to imply that only LD children are gifted, rather, I meant to say that they're often overlooked. I do understand that this could be area specific.

[Crimson Wife]

Huh...I score above level 5 by IQ test, but did none of the things listed. My son scores mid to high level 3 by IQ, but did NONE of the things listed.

 

Some kids just don't "show it".

Dr. Ruf's LOG do show a bias IMHO towards early bloomers and also kids who are gifted in the verbal/reading domain. My oldest is like that, while my 2nd did not show early signs of giftedness except when it came to spatial & mechanical stuff. He was a late talker and was only a bit early on the reading (learned the month before he started K).

[go_go_gadget]

My experience has been the opposite - it's almost impossible for a child with a LD to gain entrance into a public school gifted program here because they use standardized testing and academic performance to determine eligibility (here, at least).

I certainly never meant to imply that only LD children are gifted, rather, I meant to say that they're often overlooked. I do understand that this could be area specific.

 

I should have been more specific. I can't speak at all to how these things are handled in schools, but in homeschooling circles specifically, *parents* seem to consider gftedness and some kind(s) of LD's or other disorders to go hand-in-hand. Reading the ''Is my child gifted/It's so hard having a gifted kid''-type threads on the AL board, it seems be far more common for a gifted child to also have some kind of something, but as regentrude said, perhaps kids with those kinds of challenges are more likely to receive the kind of attention and testing that identify giftedness, while kids who are gifted without accompanying disorders fly under the radar.

[DianeW88]

I should have been more specific. I can't speak at all to how these things are handled in schools, but in homeschooling circles specifically, *parents* seem to consider gftedness and some kind(s) of LD's or other disorders to go hand-in-hand. Reading the ''Is my child gifted/It's so hard having a gifted kid''-type threads on the AL board, it seems be far more common for a gifted child to also have some kind of something, but as regentrude said, perhaps kids with those kinds of challenges are more likely to receive the kind of attention and testing that identify giftedness, while kids who are gifted without accompanying disorders fly under the radar.

 

I suspect this is probably true.  Do schools even give IQ tests on a regular basis now?  We all had to take them in second grade, although my public school had me tested in kindergarten.  I was screwing things up for the teacher because I wanted to read "Little Women" during nap time.  She was NOT amused, and accused me of just pretending to read even when I read an entire page aloud for her.  To say that my parents freaked out when they heard was an understatement.

 

[Dmmetler]

I think it has to do with that you can get testing done if there's suspicion of special needs, but not of GT. My DD was tested at age 2 because she had enough overlapping symptoms of an ASD to qualify for testing, and her daycare teacher was insistent that she was autistic. Her pediatrician said up front that she was about 99% sure that the only thing wrong with DD was that she was "too smart for her own good at this point"- and sure enough, testing came out that she was PG with "non-clinical sensory integration issues".

 

Most of the homeschool parents I know who have GT kids who are formally identified as GT have similar stories-the kids were tested only because something else was going on-in DD's case, she was tested for early K entry, and then the EXPLORE validated her earlier scores, but honestly, had we not had the daycare teacher insisting that she was autistic,she probably would never have been formally tested until the EXPLORE-and maybe not then, since I might not have been on GT boards where programs that use the EXPLORE are regular topics of conversation.

[Dmmetler]

I think it has to do with that you can get testing done if there's suspicion of special needs, but not of GT. My DD was tested at age 2 because she had enough overlapping symptoms of an ASD to qualify for testing, and her daycare teacher was insistent that she was autistic. Her pediatrician said up front that she was about 99% sure that the only thing wrong with DD was that she was "too smart for her own good at this point"- and sure enough, testing came out that she was PG with "non-clinical sensory integration issues".

 

Most of the homeschool parents I know who have GT kids who are formally identified as GT have similar stories-the kids were tested only because something else was going on-in DD's case, she was tested for early K entry, and then the EXPLORE validated her earlier scores, but honestly, had we not had the daycare teacher insisting that she was autistic,she probably would never have been formally tested until the EXPLORE-and maybe not then, since I might not have been on GT boards where programs that use the EXPLORE are regular topics of conversation.

[go_go_gadget]

I suspect this is probably true.  Do schools even give IQ tests on a regular basis now?  We all had to take them in second grade, although my public school had me tested in kindergarten. 

 

 

I have no idea what's typical in schools anymore. When I was in school, teachers recommended testing on a case-by-case basis in fourth grade, and that's when I was tested. I bombed the test on purpose because once I'd been in the room where the GT program took place shortly before it began one day, and a girl came up and said ''YOU don't belong here; only people who are really smart can be here right now.'' I decided I didn't want to associate with such people, so I failed that test as hard as I could. My parents were furious, so they arranged to have me tested again without telling me that's what was happening. I was called to the principal's office, and my goody-two-shoes self was shaking like a leaf and inclined to whatever I was told. I was given a totally different style of test, and found out later I'd tested as PG. 

[AimeeM]

I should have been more specific. I can't speak at all to how these things are handled in schools, but in homeschooling circles specifically, *parents* seem to consider gftedness and some kind(s) of LD's or other disorders to go hand-in-hand. Reading the ''Is my child gifted/It's so hard having a gifted kid''-type threads on the AL board, it seems be far more common for a gifted child to also have some kind of something, but as regentrude said, perhaps kids with those kinds of challenges are more likely to receive the kind of attention and testing that identify giftedness, while kids who are gifted without accompanying disorders fly under the radar.

You're absolutely right. Often children with suspected learning disabilities undergo testing while others probably fly under the radar. Sorry I misunderstood the first post.

[go_go_gadget]

Most of the homeschool parents I know who have GT kids who are formally identified as GT have similar stories-the kids were tested only because something else was going on-in DD's case, she was tested for early K entry, and then the EXPLORE validated her earlier scores, but honestly, had we not had the daycare teacher insisting that she was autistic,she probably would never have been formally tested until the EXPLORE-and maybe not then, since I might not have been on GT boards where programs that use the EXPLORE are regular topics of conversation.

 

That rings very true. I haven't tested my kids because I don't currently have any need to do so. I'm not having trouble keeping them challenged, so I don't need to test them to qualify for Davidson or the like. 

[Jilly]

Also, for those who define it in terms of academic achievement well outside the norm, that excludes many kids whose IQ scores put then in the highly gifted range, but who have learning disabilities. So do you believe being 2E disqualifies one from being gifted, if the disability is bad enough to mask the intelligence? I'm so curious about all this and have been much too busy the last year or two to follow up on it, but I've been wondering. :)

 

I don't think being 2E disqualifies one from being gifted. An IQ test can very accurately test giftedness even if one has a learning disability. I do believe though that schools have an environment that overlooks gifted 2E kids. My youngest son is eligible for the gifted program at the local elementary, but I would rather homeschool him because I know he would not survive in that environment. There are many ways to test into the program and one is with standardized tests that many parents around here have the kids prep for. Many of these kids are not gifted in the traditional sense, instead they are great test takers. With my son's learning disabilities and his intense interests, he would be very unhappy in a classroom environment, and I am sure he would not perform at a high level academically. 

[Arcadia]

but as regentrude said, perhaps kids with those kinds of challenges are more likely to receive the kind of attention and testing that identify giftedness, while kids who are gifted without accompanying disorders fly under the radar.

My school district will test disorders once a child reach three years old. Most kids already has the paperwork for 504 or IEP before kindergarten especially for Aspergers, ADHD and speech theraphy. However the district has no funding for the gifted program so now there is no testing for gifted. The district used to do the testing at end of 2nd grade or start of 3rd grade.

I think my kids are just bright with SPD.

[SKL]

I am in Mensa, and in causal conversations with fellow members about half were labeled dim or put in the slow classes at some point during school.  (One of my motivators for homeschooling)  In fact, I thought it was interesting that the youngest Mensan ever admitted (it was a year-ish ago) was IQ tested because the doctor kept calling her slow and delayed. 

 

I just have to appreciate this post.  My brother and I both tested gifted, but nobody would have known it, and some thought we were dumb.  My brother was one of those nutty professor types and most people thought he was, in the politically-incorrect usage of our high school, "spedsie."  One day the ACT scores came out and the intercom announced who got the top 3 scores.  My brother and I were both in the top 3.  You could hear jaws hitting the floor all over the place.  LOL.  My brother also got poor grades (except in a few areas that he found fascinating), and in 2nd grade he was almost failed over incomplete work.  He was too busy daydreaming to bother with schoolwork.

[mommymilkies]

I agree with Diane. My experience was different as a 2E, though. My IQ score put me well above the gifted cut off. But I was an underachieving, ADHD, and incredibly anxious child. It held me back a lot. My scores never matched my ability past grade 3. But I went to a school where your grades determined your participation in the gifted program. It was just a time to get out of regular classes and play games. I coasted through school refusing to do my homework, not studying, skipping class, and hating every second of it. It was only when I got to college that I was able to get good grades and make use of my brain.

 

I am also more strongly a VSL than a Verbal person. I scored high in both, but testing favors Verbally gifted kids from my experience. Unless you are able to have the tester or evaluator understand and accommodate those with LDs like dyslexia. I have three kids I would classify as gifted when I compare them to their peers. The limited testing we have done has placed the oldest two in the 98th-99th% depending on subject. They have not had IQ testing. I know for a fact one is 2E, as he is dyslexic.

[kiwik]

Huh...I score above level 5 by IQ test, but did none of the things listed. My son scores mid to high level 3 by IQ, but did NONE of the things listed.

 

Some kids just don't "show it".

I would have put ds6 at level 2/3 on the ruf levels but he tests at level 5. He is just slightly different and it shows in his reasoning and questions. He has no LDs, and very even scores with highs in thinking skills and working memory.

[MistyMountain]

.

[kiwik]

Of course if you are 2E home school may be the only viable option.

[beaners]

I think the tricky thing is the current trend where "gifted" is more equated to "not able to handle traditional classroom learning" than actual "learning potential." It's more like gifted is considered a different special need rather than gifted is a special ability.

 

I'll be frank here. I think it's crap.  I think there are many very smart children held back by learning disorders and programs not designed to their strengths. They deserve better. I also think that children who are just plain smart don't need to be labeled with some sort of neurosis to be considered gifted, although that's what we're approaching.  "Gifted children don't nap." "Gifted children are high-strung." "Blah, blah, blah." I think sometimes we lose access to the exceptional by expecting it to be so ... exceptional. Sometimes people are really good at making connections and figuring things out without drawing attention to themselves, but that doesn't mean they are "less gifted" because they can function in normal settings. Someone who learns quickly and loves science can still be gifted even if he or she doesn't blow up your garage or have a moody meltdown.  We've moved so far towards supporting emotional needs that I think we've stereotyped gifted kids into one very, very small box.

 

My husband and I meet the general IQ designations for giftedness, although I don't meet the social ones.  I haven't asked him about his out of a desire to avoid the "are you serious" face.

[Erin]

Of course if you are 2E home school may be the only viable option.

 

 

Not the only...  My little brother is gifted with ADD.  He was fortunate enough to have a school that recognized his ability as well as his challenge.   

However, my son, facing the exact same issues, has not been so lucky.

 

To grades, most kids I know who get good grades are of average or above-average intelligence...not gifted.  Most of them are the ones who are "if only she would apply herself..."  To be sure, that was me.  ;)

 

BTW, I really like this graphic that describes the difference between bright and gifted.  Personally, I have one of each.

[Snowfall]

Beaners, I absolutely agree. Actually, the one that annoys me most lately is the myth that all gifted people are introverts. So silly. It's like people want to shove all gifted folks into some tiny box.

 

I'm on my phone, so I don't know how to quote, but I just wanted to clarify for the PP who quoted me, I'm not one who thinks giftedness can be dx by academic achievement. I was just talking to/about those who do. :)

[Donna]

I should have been more specific. I can't speak at all to how these things are handled in schools, but in homeschooling circles specifically, *parents* seem to consider gftedness and some kind(s) of LD's or other disorders to go hand-in-hand. Reading the ''Is my child gifted/It's so hard having a gifted kid''-type threads on the AL board, it seems be far more common for a gifted child to also have some kind of something, but as regentrude said, perhaps kids with those kinds of challenges are more likely to receive the kind of attention and testing that identify giftedness, while kids who are gifted without accompanying disorders fly under the radar.

I think you see this trend because the people who post on these threads chose to post because they are having some sort of difficulty or have btdt and want to offer support or suggestions to those with questions or concerns.

 

If everything is going fine with your gifted child, there is no need to post on these sorts of threads. No one who is having difficulty with their gifted child making friends would want to hear that my gifted child makes friends everywhere she goes and has excellent social skills in any setting. Someone who is trying to find others who have gifted children with sensory issues will get little comfort from the parents whose children have none....even though they could probably post on a regular board and find children at all IQ levels with sensory issues. If your gifted child is having sleep issues you might want to find out if others out there have the same issues.

 

Sometimes being a parent, especially a homeschooling parent, can feel like living on an island...especially if you have a gifted child and no one in your real life wants to listen because whether you are discussing difficulties or triumphs, it all comes across as bragging to them. Forums like the AL board can often seem like a safe place to share and connect with people going through similar situations.

[Tracy]

I don't care much about quantifying gifted.  I see a lot of people wondering if their kids are gifted.  I don't think there is anything wrong with just deciding that your kids (or  you) are gifted because what you read about gifted people (both their abilities and their struggles) resonates with you.  We have issues with kids needing challenge, asynchronicity, perfectionism, sensory sensitivities, difficulty connecting with other children because of intellectual differences, etc.  I glean a lot from the gifted literature without going about proving that my kids are gifted.  

[beaners]

 

Sometimes being a parent, especially a homeschooling parent, can feel like living on an island...especially if you have a gifted child and no one in your real life wants to listen because whether you are discussing difficulties or triumphs, it all comes across as bragging to them. Forums like the AL board can often seem like a safe place to share and connect with people going through similar situations.

 

Unfortunately, it feels less like a safe space for me when people say that if someone *doesn't* have problems with _____, then he or she is "merely bright."

[Meriwether]

Shrug. I have one who has characteristics from both lists. She is easily in the top 3% acheivement wise. She works above grade level and has been largely self-taught since she was a 6yo/2nd grader. She is interested in everything but nothing in particular. She is a sponge for information, but she isn't creative at all. I have no reason to test her, but she would probably score above 130 on an IQ test. Even with test scores in hand that said otherwise, I'd consider her to be bright.

[texasmama]

I've not encountered the thinking that if a child is gifted, he must also have issues with ADHD/LDs/SPD, etc.  My gifted child has none of these.  He has some internal struggles at times, which may be due to his asynchronous development (or not - maybe he's just a sensitive kid).  No "diagnosable" issues, though. 

 

 

[Embassy]

I'll be frank here. I think it's crap.  I think there are many very smart children held back by learning disorders and programs not designed to their strengths. They deserve better. I also think that children who are just plain smart don't need to be labeled with some sort of neurosis to be considered gifted, although that's what we're approaching.  "Gifted children don't nap." "Gifted children are high-strung." "Blah, blah, blah." I think sometimes we lose access to the exceptional by expecting it to be so ... exceptional. Sometimes people are really good at making connections and figuring things out without drawing attention to themselves, but that doesn't mean they are "less gifted" because they can function in normal settings. Someone who learns quickly and loves science can still be gifted even if he or she doesn't blow up your garage or have a moody meltdown.  We've moved so far towards supporting emotional needs that I think we've stereotyped gifted kids into one very, very small box.

 

As a parent of gifted kids who are also emotionally intense, I don't think you understand the lack of support in day to day life.  The AL board or others like it offer support when there is no one else that I know in my everyday life who gets it.  If I talk about academics, I get judged.  If I talk about my children's difficulties (because all kids do have some difficulties), I get judged because many of my children's difficulties are ones that come quite easy to other children.

 

Also, there is no typical gifted child.  If you look at the chart on this page http://borntoexplore.org/overexcite.htm you can see that many gifted children do have a greater tendency to have more qualities in the emotional, imaginational, intellectual, motor, or sensory areas.  You will also find these characteristics in the general population.  It doesn't mean that you will have all or even one of them, but they will appear more in the gifted population.  

 

As to the idea that gifted is associated with some sort of accompanying difficulty, I don't think you will find that understanding in the general public.  Maybe some people here have read the AL board and have come to understand that gifted doesn't always mean life on easy street.  I think that is a good thing.  We need to change the understanding of the term gifted.  It is commonly thought of as academic achievement and I do hope that changes.  I also hope that some other label is used because the term gifted brings out negative feelings far too much.

[mommymilkies]

I think of it as an IQ of at least 130 and the traits mentioned. I was never tested but I think I could be. I was totally missed all throughout school except by one science teacher who got fired shortly after she was going to sign me up for a program that probably would have probably been a very positive in my life. I was very shy and I probably had sensory issues, add, anxiety. I was strongly introverted. I learned fast and was very bored in school and all the kids were really immature and interested in boring things to me. I would read things way above my grade level with understanding. I remember being a kid and reading my sisters college textbook and being fascinated by the information in there. I was very lazy about doing work and I got okay grades but was never a straight A student because I wasn't good about doing assignments and homework. I am guessing I was probably on the border but who knows. I lost a lot of brain cells since having kids and not using them. I need to at least start reading more. I could see maybe one of my kids being in the gifted category but 2E. The other two don't seem to be. That only a guess though because none were tested. Sometimes it seems like something is wrong with those two but I have to mostly remember that it is okay to not be gifted and that nothing is wrong with not having that ability and that they will be fine like most people I know.

 

You don't need a LD to be gifted. I think that actually makes it much easier to get missed. No one doubts the kid who relates to older kids, teaches themselves and is grades apart is gifted but it much harder to see the kid who is having a hard time learning read or struggles with certain aspects of math as gifted. I also think like other aspects of development that some kids can end up being a late bloomer. They were not precocious but they develop intellectually longer than others like those who hit puberty late and end up gifted later in life. None of my kids are precocious.

I'm right there with you!  I had a very similar experience.  I also agree that OF COURSE you don't need a LD to be gifted.  That's 2E.  I watched a few wonderful speeches by Shelagh Gallagher at a homeschool conference and she explained it all very well.  It's like people assuming all "normal" children have none of those symptoms.  Of course not, it's a spectrum.  But, at least on here, I think it's more common to see about 2E because if your kid is totally normal, there is less to complain about or need help with.  :lol:  I have never been told that gifted students also must have asynchrony or LDs.  So idk if it's just an area issue, or what.  I can't find anything out there that says this, either.  I see a lot of stuff saying the CAN have issues, but none saying they ALL do.  Whoever says that is completely wrong.

[SKL]

I don't think you have to have difficulties in order to qualify as gifted.  Does a gifted athlete have to have a deformity?  That doesn't make sense to me.

 

I think of intellectually gifted as having a pretty high IQ.  Most people with a pretty high IQ are able to put it to use at some level.  I guess if you were rendered incapable of living life by a major disability (like some savants for example), the term "gifted" might come into question.

[Erin]

I don't care much about quantifying gifted.  I see a lot of people wondering if their kids are gifted.  I don't think there is anything wrong with just deciding that your kids (or  you) are gifted because what you read about gifted people (both their abilities and their struggles) resonates with you.  We have issues with kids needing challenge, asynchronicity, perfectionism, sensory sensitivities, difficulty connecting with other children because of intellectual differences, etc.  I glean a lot from the gifted literature without going about proving that my kids are gifted.  

 

I tend to agree.

I don't know of schools anymore that even have gifted programs (small districts cut them years ago, if they ever had them), so testing a kid for giftedness is pointless.  

For homeschooling it's pointless also because we're going to adjust our program to the kid no matter what a test would show.

 

Now, I will agree that sometimes it's nice to put a label to something you're struggling with; why is my kid such an impulsive space-cadet?  Ah.... ADD.  Well that makes sense.   Why is my kid always coming up with these hair-brained ideas (some of which actually work)?  Oh, yeah, he might indeed be gifted...  

 

 

But I've known one too many adults who grew up knowing they were brilliant, and worse, everyone around them told them how brilliant they were.  The arrogance that creates is utterly obnoxious.  

[DianeW88]

You know, I actually was a little anxious as a child.  I know I was afraid of more things than my peers at times, probably because I had the ability to read about a scary situation in the news, and then extrapolate that the same thing could happen to me.  Being able to read a newspaper at age 7 and understand what the articles meant was not necessarily a good thing.  LOL

 

I could also empathize with other children more readily than my peers.  I remember reading in the paper (why didn't my parents hide that from me?  LOL) about refugee children from Vietnam and feeling SO sad for them.  I clearly remember imagining how I would have felt if my parents had been killed and I had to live on the streets at age 5 or 6.  It bothered me for a long time back then.

 

So while I did feel emotions more intensely, it wasn't something that was crippling for me, and other adults in my world most likely didn't even take notice, as it wasn't something I shared with anybody.

 

I can also see how a gifted child, who behaves ordinarily in every other way, would most likely not be tested, and as a result, be overlooked by the system.  Especially a system that has no money to spend on programs for gifted kids.

 

My own son underwent IQ testing simply because a doctor who is a good friend of mine was doing a long-term research study at the University of Utah on giftedness in children, and when he met Zach (who could speak at nine months) asked if he could enroll him in the study.  I knew it would be well done, so I agreed.  Other than that, I would not have pursued it on my own, as there really is no reason for a homeschooling mom to need that sort of quantifiable giftedness diagnosis.  We already tailor our children's education to their needs...so what would be the point?  It's not like I can get extra funding for him. ;)

[Crimson Wife]

For homeschooling it's pointless also because we're going to adjust our program to the kid no matter what a test would show.

I strongly disagree with this assertion for homeschoolers with kids who are more than just moderately gifted. There are a number of fantastic GATE programs out there that homeschoolers can access (and that often have generous financial aid for low-to-moderate income families) if they have the scores to qualify. The MIT admissions page for homeschooled applicants specifically recommends participation in talent search programs like Johns Hopkins CTY, Stanford EPGY, or Duke TIP, as well as summer programs like PROMYS and MathCamp.

[beaners]

As a parent of gifted kids who are also emotionally intense, I don't think you understand the lack of support in day to day life.  The AL board or others like it offer support when there is no one else that I know in my everyday life who gets it.  If I talk about academics, I get judged.  If I talk about my children's difficulties (because all kids do have some difficulties), I get judged because many of my children's difficulties are ones that come quite easy to other children.

 

Also, there is no typical gifted child.  If you look at the chart on this page http://borntoexplore.org/overexcite.htm you can see that many gifted children do have a greater tendency to have more qualities in the emotional, imaginational, intellectual, motor, or sensory areas.  You will also find these characteristics in the general population.  It doesn't mean that you will have all or even one of them, but they will appear more in the gifted population.  

 

As to the idea that gifted is associated with some sort of accompanying difficulty, I don't think you will find that understanding in the general public.  Maybe some people here have read the AL board and have come to understand that gifted doesn't always mean life on easy street.  I think that is a good thing.  We need to change the understanding of the term gifted.  It is commonly thought of as academic achievement and I do hope that changes.  I also hope that some other label is used because the term gifted brings out negative feelings far too much.

 

I hope it didn't sound like I thought there weren't intense kids out there who need support for that.  I have an easy child, an intense child, and a child who probably has a LD.  

 

I think there *is* a personality type that some gifted kids fall into that hits a lot of the common stereotypes.  I said something about it on the gifted = bad sleeper thread.  I don't think a lack of those things indicates a lack of giftedness though.

 

Sometimes people here imply or actually say outright that a gifted kid would do poorly at ______, but bright kids will do well. For example, a "truly gifted" individual wouldn't test well.  Yes, there are plenty of people who would see the answers that could be right but aren't what the examiner wants. Some might be paralyzed or distracted by it, but why couldn't others just process all of that and move on? People who do well in school aren't gifted.  Well, a lot of bright people do well in school, and a lot of gifted people don't, but the ability to complete menial tasks is more a personality trait than an indication of giftedness. I know some amazingly talented people who did well on all of their boring schoolwork and kept their minds occupied elsewhere. (Although I chuckle a bit when I recall my super-smart friend bringing our saint of a third grade teacher to tears.) Gifted kids don't relate well to kids their age, or gifted individuals can't work with other people. I can think of so many examples that prove that wrong.

 

Resources like SENG fill a definite need, but I think we are swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction today. I think we've moved from using the word gifted to mean everyone who fits in a very small box based on actual achievement to using the word gifted to mean everyone who fits into a very small box that places more emphasis on personality type than ability.

[Erin]

There are a number of fantastic GATE programs out there that homeschoolers can access

And I would say that's an excellent example of adjusting the homeschool program to fit the kid.  Also, I tend to think "genius" and "gifted" are two different categories.  

Although, at the same time, my little brother qualified for the Duke TIP thing with his 7th grade ACT score... 

 

Instead, he finished out high school like usual in small-town Nebraska, went to a small state college for his under-grad (still in small town Nebraska) then started his grad work at the University of NE-Lincoln (big-city Nebraska).  Even though Stanford and Berkley were both vying for his grad work, he decided to just follow his girlfriend to the U.  lol

 

First year in grad school, MIT recruited him to be their chief internet system guy.  He was in charge of security and general set-up.  

At 23 he got to organize their new computer lab on their campus in Dublin, Ireland.  By 25, he'd been recruited again, this time for an Intel program called Computer Clubhouse that MIT works with.  He was the director of the Midwest labs.  

And by 27 he was being courted by this young internet company called Google...

 

 

So even without a talent search, he seems to have been found.  

[SKL]

I dunno, I have a child who has a lot of those traits - anxious, over-thinks, learns differently etc. etc.  Her IQ tests average.  I have another kid who has a high IQ and yeah, she thinks and learns differently too, because people are unique.  If she doesn't fit into a box (like the normal school child) it's because she doesn't have to in order to get by.  It helps to know most of the final exam answers before the first day of school, no matter what style of thinking/learning led to that knowledge.

 

Of course gifted kids can have learning problems.  My dad was tested as a teen because he couldn't read.  The test gave him an IQ of 129, but it was likely higher, considering how illiteracy and its causes would impact the test.  So I get that, but I don't think learning difficulties are any more prevalent in gifted kids than in average IQ kids.  Many gifted kids without severe learning problems may simply never be tested / identified officially.