I'm Catholic but thinking of attending a protestant church. I feel like this is wrong...

[MyThreeSons]

But Jesus spoke clearly when He said that the bread was His body, and the wine was His blood. He said it in John 6, and He said it again at the Last Supper. We *know* when Jesus speaks symbolically and when He doesn't. If He had been speaking figuratively in John 6, His followers would not have left Him.

How do you make this distinction?

 

And to say His followers would not have left Him is faulty logic. Maybe they thought he was speaking literally when he was speaking figuratively.

[Parrothead]

Ah, but just a simple example: It is my understanding that confession in the Catholic church means confessing to (through?) a priest. And he tells you what penance you must do to gain forgiveness. And part of your confession includes stating how long it has been since your last confession.

 

I don't find any of that in the Scriptures anywhere. I can confess and be forgiven multiple times a day, just between me and God.

John 20: 21-23

 

For your perusal: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-forgiveness-of-sins

[Tiramisu]

Can I like this? We (Catholics) have the same problem on pretty much (it seems) the same level. I personally don't think church should be about what the individual wants. But what the individual can give to God.

 

Church isn't about worshipping ourselves.

I agree that church shouldn't be about what the individual wants, the individual on either side of the pulpit. We in the pews have the right to be taught the truth and worship without inappropriate distractions. And we have the right to a Mass without DIY ad lib-ing. This may require attending an out-of-town parish.

 

Unfortunately, I find that many churches fall into the worshipping-self category, often due to the choice of hymns from 1970 on. 

 

Sometimes a little variety can be inspiring. That's why there are parish missions, to wake people up a little. Unfortunately, we don't get a lot of parish mission so I think it perfectly okay to visit another parish for a little revitalization.

[PeacefulChaos]

I am Protestant, but I do not believe going to church is about our feelings, "experiencing God" with our feelings, or about how good the sermons are or whether the pastor is reaching our hearts most of the time, or any such things.

 

I think that this emphasis on our feelings and our own needs and wants in the church is a huge problem in some modern American Protestant churches.

 

I'm not 100% clear on what this means.  

I think church is to worship God, learn about God, and fellowship with other believers.  

I think that one's choice of a church is usually based on whether or not the teaching is sound/aligns with one's personal convictions.  I think relevance plays into it a little bit.  

I don't see anything wrong with a lot of the things that have been mentioned in this thread (as downfalls to Protestantism, if that's even a word! :D ), but as I'm trying not to take offense, I won't address them - I'll just say that, like others have said, no one can judge the soul of another - regardless of whether they go to a church that only sings hymns from before 1870 or a church with a full, loud worship band. ;)

 

 

ETA:  OP - I see no harm in trying out other things.  Maybe, if it makes you feel more comfortable, that would be trying a new parish first and going from there.  Hope you can find something that fits your needs. :)

[marbel]

The capitalization was auto correct. On my phone.

 

 

I'm a bad catholic bc I am a social justice oriented catholic who fails to toe the stupid anti gay and anti woman line that the American bishopric is obsessed with.

 

Not sure what you mean by anti-woman - you mean anti-abortion?

 

If you consider Catholic doctrine stupid why do you still consider yourself a Catholic? 

[MyThreeSons]

But they could not answer our basic questions. How do you obtain salvation? When should one be baptized? Is baptism necessary? Why don't I feel forgiven? What must I do to be forgiven? What does the Bible say about XYZ? No one could agree or come up with a straight answer! From one church to another they had different answers! Even asking different people in the same church would produce different answers. Huh?? This greatly bothered me as I got older. Most of the time it was "that's between you and God." I needed actual, physical support and answers. I have found that.

Come talk to my pastor, and the pastor of the church my son attends, and the pastor of the church across the street from ours, and so many others I know, and they would be glad to answer your questions.

 

But then, you say there were different answers from one church to another. So they did give you answers, but maybe not what you were looking for.

[Tiramisu]

I'm not 100% clear on what this means.  

I think church is to worship God, learn about God, and fellowship with other believers.  

I think that one's choice of a church is usually based on whether or not the teaching is sound/aligns with one's personal convictions.  I think relevance plays into it a little bit.  

I don't see anything wrong with a lot of the things that have been mentioned in this thread (as downfalls to Protestantism, if that's even a word! :D ), but as I'm trying not to take offense, I won't address them - I'll just say that, like others have said, no one can judge the soul of another - regardless of whether they go to a church that only sings hymns from before 1870 or a church with a full, loud worship band. ;)

As long as that full, loud worship band isn't singing a refrain that goes, "We are great, we are great, we are really, really great."  :D

[Tiramisu]

I'm not 100% clear on what this means.  

I think church is to worship God, learn about God, and fellowship with other believers.  

I think that one's choice of a church is usually based on whether or not the teaching is sound/aligns with one's personal convictions.  I think relevance plays into it a little bit.  

I don't see anything wrong with a lot of the things that have been mentioned in this thread (as downfalls to Protestantism, if that's even a word! :D ), but as I'm trying not to take offense, I won't address them - I'll just say that, like others have said, no one can judge the soul of another - regardless of whether they go to a church that only sings hymns from before 1870 or a church with a full, loud worship band. ;)

As long as that full, loud worship band isn't singing a refrain that goes, "We are great, we are great, we are really, really great."  :D

[marbel]

 

I have studied the Reformation in great depth. I have studied Church History in detail. We converted to the Catholic Church 2 years ago after our entire lives of the modern "Christian" churches being unable to answer our deep questions. Sure they had fun youth programs and great community. I still miss that. :) But they could not answer our basic questions. How do you obtain salvation? When should one be baptized? Is baptism necessary? Why don't I feel forgiven? What must I do to be forgiven? What does the Bible say about XYZ? No one could agree or come up with a straight answer! From one church to another they had different answers! Even asking different people in the same church would produce different answers. Huh?? This greatly bothered me as I got older. Most of the time it was "that's between you and God." I needed actual, physical support and answers. I have found that. I will never leave the Catholic Church. I am not the best, most devout Catholic (I hope to become moreso), but I could never go back to being a Protestant. I do admit the in-depth study I have done has made all the difference. I know it is hard for cradle Catholics who have not been properly catechized. I will pray for you.

 

 

Maybe the Protestant churches you went to did not adhere to a confession of faith/catechism.  I couldn't answer all the questions you list off the top of my head, but I could find the answers (Westminster Confessio of Faith and catechisms).  I am quite certain that, as a pp said, my pastor could answer them, and am pretty sure the elders of the church could too. 

 

[PeacefulChaos]

As long as that full, loud worship band isn't singing a refrain that goes, "We are great, we are great, we are really, really great."  :D

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Luckily, I haven't heard one like that... :D ;)

[MyThreeSons]

You have to understand how reverently those of us treat the Eucharist to fully understand what we mean.  What do you do with the unconsumed grape juice and crackers?  Do you throw them in the rubbish or down the drain with other sewage?  That is just awful to those of us who believe it is truly His body and blood. Why would we throw Jesus out with the trash??!!  KWIM?   Or, is it thrown back in the package to be used again next week - or used for some other purpose (snacks for the kids).   Again.. .that would be very disrespectful to those of us who believe in the True Presence.  KWIM?

 

 

2ndly,, yes, Jesus did use a lot of symbolism.  But, who decides which is which??  Do we follow the ancient practices are follow the changes that come along later?   Historically the church always believed that Jesus was speaking literally in that instance.  The idea that it is ONLY a symbol is a late addition (1500s??) to the Christian tradition.    As someone who was a Protestant, and believed very similarly to you but has since become EO, I decided I'd rather follow the ancient beliefs and practices of the Church rather than stepping in line with later additions/changes.

But if you believe that our crackers and grape juice didn't literally become the Body and the Blood, because our pastor isn't part of the Apostolic Succession, then there's truly nothing to offend you, right? It's just juice and crackers to you.

 

I have a friend who has multiple graduate degrees in Theology and such. He has recently moved to become a professor at a well-respected seminary (yes, Protestant). He is truly a Biblical scholar. I have sent him a message, asking if he has something already written to chime in on this matter of the historical understanding of whether Jesus was speaking literally or figuratively.

[Joanne]

I see a lot of intellectualism, "I", and reason in this thread.

 

What do you hear in prayer about it? What does your "God gut" tell you when you ask Him where you should be?

[wonderchica]

But if you believe that our crackers and grape juice didn't literally become the Body and the Blood, because our pastor isn't part of the Apostolic Succession, then there's truly nothing to offend you, right? It's just juice and crackers to you.

 

 

What do Catholic churches do with the Eucharist afterwards? I'm assuming there's no way to predict the exact amount of wine and bread needed for each Mass.

[Ellie]

How do you make this distinction?

 

And to say His followers would not have left Him is faulty logic. Maybe they thought he was speaking literally when he was speaking figuratively.

 

I guess you'll have to figure that out for yourself.

[unsinkable]

Runbikeswim...are you still around?

 

I feel badly that your thread has turned into a theological debate. Are you OK with that?

[Tiramisu]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Luckily, I haven't heard one like that... :D ;)

Sadly, many modern Catholic hymns are like this. All about how great we are and how blessed God is to be in our presence. As though we have no need of redemption. My feelings really have little to do with the style of the music, but personally, it is rather...limp. Very different from modern (true) worship music.

[Joanne]

The capitalization was auto correct. On my phone.

 

 

I'm a bad catholic bc I am a social justice oriented catholic who fails to toe the stupid anti gay and anti woman line that the American bishopric is obsessed with.

 

 

Interesting, on the bold. I'm a feminist, decoverted protestant spiritual eclectic,, but I have observed RC to be the least partriarchical and anti woman of the Christian denominations..

[Parrothead]

But if you believe that our crackers and grape juice didn't literally become the Body and the Blood, because our pastor isn't part of the Apostolic Succession, then there's truly nothing to offend you, right? It's just juice and crackers to you.

 

I have a friend who has multiple graduate degrees in Theology and such. He has recently moved to become a professor at a well-respected seminary (yes, Protestant). He is truly a Biblical scholar. I have sent him a message, asking if he has something already written to chime in on this matter of the historical understanding of whether Jesus was speaking literally or figuratively.

Of course you realize that as a non-Catholic Christian his perspective will be as one who believes jesus was figuratively speaking, yes?

 

I could email Catholic scholars to counter anything your learned friend presents and we will never convince each other of our opposing view points.

 

Ultimately it comes down to faith. Your faith requires you believe in figurative language, and mine requires a literal belief.

 

I find this quite ironic though. Many many times it is the Catholics that are "arguing" for a figurative interpretation of the Bible and the non-Catholics are "arguing" for a literal interpretation.

[Tiramisu]

What do Catholic churches do with the Eucharist afterwards? I'm assuming there's no way to predict the exact amount of wine and bread needed for each Mass.

The Eucharist is stored in the Tabernacle for a later Mass. The wine is consumed by the priest. The vessels are rinsed with water that can only be poured onto the earth, not sent down in the sewer or cesspool. 

 

Please, someone, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Avila]

What do Catholic churches do with the Eucharist afterwards? I'm assuming there's no way to predict the exact amount of wine and bread needed for each Mass.

 

Catholics store the Host in a Tabernacle especially constructed for that purpose.  It can then be brought out and consumed at the next Mass.  While Jesus is present in the Tabernacle, we bow or genuflect in that direction when we enter that room as acknowledgement of the Real Presence there and as a sign of respect.

 

The priest or communion ministers drink the wine.  The vessels are all rinsed in a special sink that filters into the ground instead of the sewer lines. 

 

Once it is consecrated, it is Jesus.  And we treat Jesus as our Lord and Savior. 

 

(Making absolutely no comments or generalizing to any other tradition and what or how they do their communion, BTW.)

[Parrothead]

What do Catholic churches do with the Eucharist afterwards? I'm assuming there's no way to predict the exact amount of wine and bread needed for each Mass.

Extra hosts are placed in the chalice and then double locked into the tabernacle. Any extra consecrated wine is consumed by the priest (or deacon).

[AimeeM]

The capitalization was auto correct. On my phone.

 

 

I'm a bad catholic bc I am a social justice oriented catholic who fails to toe the stupid anti gay and anti woman line that the American bishopric is obsessed with.

Anti-woman? I will never understand how anyone could think the catholic church is "anti-woman".

 

OP - have your beliefs changed? If they haven't, then I would suggest you simply need a different parish.

[DianeW88]

OP, you need to follow your heart.  If you're feeling uncomfortable in your current faith, maybe there's a reason for that.  Visit other denominations and see if any of them can help you find what you feel is missing in your current one.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Anti-woman? I will never understand how anyone could think the catholic church is "anti-woman".

 

OP - have your beliefs changed? If they haven't, then I would suggest you simply need a different parish.

Lol. It isn't that hard to understand.

[ktgrok]

Not sure what you mean by anti-woman - you mean anti-abortion?

 

If you consider Catholic doctrine stupid why do you still consider yourself a Catholic?

I'm not the one you addressed, but plenty of Catholics feel that just as they can be American and not agree with some laws, they can be Catholic and not agree with some doctrine.

[AimeeM]

Lol. It isn't that hard to understand.

Sure it is - when one has experienced the exact opposite her entire life.

[ktgrok]

I agree with this as well. Our current crop of bishops have conservative political affiliations. They are political animals more than their spiritual animals. My dislike of the bishops does not mean that I think there's a problem with Catholic doctrine. Those who don't understand With doctor and feel like there is a divorce between the social justice Catholic and the conservative traditionalist Catholic.

 

I oppose abortion, but I also oppose the bishops thought process And political machinations Focused on how we can best prevent abortion.

Amen Amen Amen!

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Sure it is - when one has experienced the exact opposite her entire life.

You should at least be able to understand the criticism, even if you disagree with it.

[Moxie]

Any chance we can get back to helping the OP???

[Parrothead]

Any chance we can get back to helping the OP???

Unfortunately I don't think we've helped much at all with all our petty bickering.

[unsinkable]

Unfortunately I don't think we've helped much at all with all our petty bickering.

Hey! I suggested donuts!

[PachiSusan]

Stepping gingerly:

 

You ask "Is it okay?" 

 

Only you can answer that. My question first to you would be this:

 

Are you asking if it's

 

1. Okay to leave the Catholic parish you are in and NOT go to a Catholic Mass and spend time in another community,

 

or are you asking if it's

 

2. okay to stay in the Catholic Community and still go on Sunday to the Catholic church, but add in other extras from the protestant church you are describing? 

 

I think this is the question you need to answer FIRST before you make any decision. 

 

We're all trying to either "make you stay" or "give you permission to go" based on OUR convictions. The only way you can truly make a decision about your faith is for it to settle within YOU and that can only happen with much prayer. 

[Ellie]

Runbikeswim...are you still around?

 

I feel badly that your thread has turned into a theological debate. Are you OK with that?

 

Anyone who has spent any time on discussion forums knows that threads wander where they will, whether the OP is "OK with that" or not.

 

This forum is not the place where she will find her answers, anyway.

[TravelingChris]

My dh and I were raised Catholic and were married in a Catholic chapel.  However, we were attending a Catholic Church which was much like the one you described, OP.  We started visiting other churches.  We ended up leaving the Catholic Church and becoming much deeper Christians attending Protestant Churches.  Not only were did we as adults become much more knowledgeable about the Bible, our kids grew up with much more knowledge.  I really felt that God was leading us away from the Catholic Church and I have not regretted leaving it.  I am a better person as a result of my attendance for all these many years in Protestant churches. 

[unsinkable]

Anyone who has spent any time on discussion forums knows that threads wander where they will, whether the OP is "OK with that" or not.

 

This forum is not the place where she will find her answers, anyway.

Well, I feel for runbikeswim and I'm sorry if this thread stopped helping her bc of the turn it took.

[PachiSusan]

Well, I feel for runbikeswim and I'm sorry if this thread stopped helping her bc of the turn it took.

 

I agree. 

[Trish]

The title says it all. I am Catholic and lately I haven't been getting much from Mass. I have been Catholic my entire life and I doubt I would ever convert. That said, there are things that have bothered me about my local church. I have some good friends who go to a non dem. Protestant church that has a wonderful youth group, lots of families and a very intense and motivational preacher. My current church lacks all of the above. I guess I'd like to see how it is to go this church and experience something different.

 

Is this terrible? Is this okay? I am feeling like I'm betraying my current religion? Thoughts?

I hear you on the non-motivated parish thing. I have definitely attended Catholic churches where it felt like you were just going through the motions! But I've also been to ones that weren't like that at all, so I tend to sample the churches nearby and choose the one I like best. (if you're lucky enough to have plenty nearby)

 

I wouldn't leave the Catholic church due to the Eucharist, but that's just me.

[Kathryn]

OP - I think you need to ask yourself some difficult questions. Are you Catholic? Not "were you baptized Catholic and attend a Catholic Church," but "do you believe the Catholic Church's teachings?" What is it you're looking for? Is this a parish issue or a Church issue? Once you decide that, your next move should be clearer. If you believe in the truth of Catholicism, look for a different parish or try to effect change where you are. If you truly feel that the theology of a Protestant Church is correct, then don't look back.

[Trish]

I agree with this as well. Our current crop of bishops have conservative political affiliations. They are political animals more than their spiritual animals. My dislike of the bishops does not mean that I think there's a problem with Catholic doctrine. Those who don't understand With doctor and feel like there is a divorce between the social justice Catholic and the conservative traditionalist Catholic.

 

I oppose abortion, but I also oppose the bishops thought process And political machinations Focused on how we can best prevent abortion.

The bishops are conservative? I have the opposite impression. Do you live in the U.S.?

[PachiSusan]

The bishops are conservative? I have the opposite impression. Do you live in the U.S.?

 

I agree, Trish. 

 

Edited: trying to stay only on topic.

[MyThreeSons]

It is not a mortal sin to worship in a non-Catholic Christian church as long as one has fulfilled one's Sunday obligation. Thinking of Sunday morning services here.

 

... snip ...

 

When I went to Mass on Saturday evening to fulfill my Sunday obligation, then on Sunday morning went to see my friend's dd baptized in her Baptist church, I've not sinned.

I distinctly remember my Catholic friend telling me that she could not go to my Lutheran church to worship because that would be a Mortal sin. This was in the early 1970s.

 

Talking about attending Mass as an obligation just rubs me the wrong way. I attend church every Sunday I possibly can because I want to be there, worshiping God, serving the body, digging into the Word to learn Christ better, fellowshiping with like-minded folks, maybe even getting a chance to witness to a non-believer who has come to see what we're all about. But fulfilling my obligation? No way.

[justasque]

Talking about attending Mass as an obligation just rubs me the wrong way. ...

"Obligation", for Catholics, is a specific term with a specific meaning, a bit different than the common meaning.

From wiki:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_day_of_obligation

 

In the Catholic Church, holy days of obligation or holidays of obligation,^[1] less commonly called feasts of precept, are the days on which, as canon 1247 of the Code of Canon Law states:

 

On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are obliged to participate in the Mass.

Moreover they are to abstain from those works and affairs which hinder the worship to be rendered to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, or the suitable relaxation of mind and body.

[scrapbookbuzz]

I get it. I get wanting more out of the service/mass you attend. I am and grew up Protestant. Grew up in a Methodist church. Now attend a Bible church.

Here's the thing. When I was in college, I went to church almost every Sunday. I found the Methodist services to be lacking. Then I was invited to the Lutheran Student

Center by a sorority sister. That's where I attended for the rest of my college days. When I was in basic training for the Army, I found the Protestant services to be lacking.

What I found then was that I felt closest to God during the Catholic services. Go figure. It's always strange to go somewhere new and out of the norm. There is NOTHING

wrong with searching. Ask God for direction. The first chapter of James instructs us that anyone needing wisdom should ask God, Who gives generously, but when we ask

we should not doubt. Ask Him for guidance and wisdom in this issue. I will pray that you be consciously aware of His answer!

[Ellie]

Well, I feel for runbikeswim and I'm sorry if this thread stopped helping her bc of the turn it took.

 

I would hope that a homeschool discussion forum was not the only place she was looking for help. Several people advised her to go to her pastor, which would be way better than asking here.

[Parrothead]

I distinctly remember my Catholic friend telling me that she could not go to my Lutheran church to worship because that would be a Mortal sin. This was in the early 1970s.

 

Talking about attending Mass as an obligation just rubs me the wrong way. I attend church every Sunday I possibly can because I want to be there, worshiping God, serving the body, digging into the Word to learn Christ better, fellowshiping with like-minded folks, maybe even getting a chance to witness to a non-believer who has come to see what we're all about. But fulfilling my obligation? No way.

It depends on the conditions in which she would have gone with you.

 

When God gave Moses the 10 Commandments, one of those commandments was "remember the Sabbeth and keep it holy." Christians transferred the Sabbeth to Sunday. Therefore in order to fulfill the 3rd commandment we have a Sunday obligation. I thought all Christians were obliged to go to church on the Sabbeth in order to follow the Commandments. Is it no different than the other commandments give by God?

[Trish]

God forbid we should have obligations to God. I'm sure if it were that important it would be a Commandment. ;^)

[Audrey]

Unfortunately I don't think we've helped much at all with all our petty bickering.

 

 

Well... the bickering seems to happen in all threads like these.  Every sect has to have its say, which is that is that every other sect is just wrong and here's why.

 

It is entertaining, but probably not in the way you would have liked it to be.

[Parrothead]

The title says it all. I am Catholic and lately I haven't been getting much from Mass. I have been Catholic my entire life and I doubt I would ever convert. That said, there are things that have bothered me about my local church. I have some good friends who go to a non dem. Protestant church that has a wonderful youth group, lots of families and a very intense and motivational preacher. My current church lacks all of the above. I guess I'd like to see how it is to go this church and experience something different.

 

Is this terrible? Is this okay? I am feeling like I'm betraying my current religion? Thoughts?

I was thinking of you this evening of Mass. Father's homily actually reminded me of you. He spoke of st. Therese of Lisieux and her time of spiritual dryness and how she persevered through it.

 

http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=105

 

Maybe you could ask St. Therese's intervention.

[milovany]

Well... the bickering seems to happen in all threads like these.

:iagree: although you could probably leave off the "like these."  All threads with potentially controversial subject matter have this happen, religious or not.  Just look at the royal baby in the carseat thread for proof. 

[Parrothead]

:iagree: although you could probably leave off the "like these." All threads with potentially controversial subject matter have this happen, religious or not. Just look at the royal baby in the carseat thread for proof.

Well, there was that one time we were all in agreement. I think it happened earlier this year. I don't quite remember the subject or I'd search for it. 😃