Body image

[SquirrellyMama]

How do you talk to your daughter about body image? My 11 year old has been very preoccupied lately about her body. She isn't overweight nor is she super skinny. She'll never be stick thin and will have curves and hips. Many of her friends are very thin right now. I'm just not sure what to say to her. I've tried telling her she is beautiful and that we are all different. That isn't working so well. What else do you say?

 

She isn't exposed to fashion mags, pre-teen shows, etc... I thought maybe we could avoid this by homeschooling :blushing: I asked her if someone had said something to her and she said no.

 

Kelly

[justamouse]

When my daughter hit that age, and with a very curvy body filling in, I started showing her Latina magazines and gorgeous Latina women who not only loved their hips, but celebrated them. Thankfully, that was when Shakira hit the US, and now Dd is proud of the way she's built.

[TechWife]

Admittedly, I don't have a daughter, but i did used to be an 11 year old girl! You say preoccupied, but it would be helpful if we knew what you meant by that because it is perfectly normal for an 11 year old to pay attention to her body. As moms, we should celebrate when we notice the signs that our kids are growing up on us - after all, that's what we want them to do, you know?

 

These are great years for educating her in skin care, exercise & diet and how they all affect our overall health, not just our appearance. Things that would be fun to do with her would be a "spa day" of sorts:

• Pick up a couple of books on hair & makeup for her to have on hand to "play with" the info.
  
• Take her to get her hair done (and done well)
  
• Get her a shampoo for her hair type and whatever else she needs to take care of her new style
  
• let her get a manicure & a facial (or do it yourself at home)
  
• visit the makeup counter at a shopping mall for some basic skin care tips and get a few basic makeup supplies, like mascara, blush & lip gloss (buy at least one thing from the makeup counter as a courtesy, please)
  
• Take her to Target & get her a cute exercise outfit and plan a schedule with her where you can walk or run together (nothing like a pre-teen as an accountability partner)
  
• Find a good resource on nutrition (not diet, nutrition) to have on hand
  
• Get her a basic, age appropriate etiquette book.
  

 

 

There is a lot of time for you to influence how she sees herself - it will be about seven years before she heads off on her own - that's a lot of time you can use strategically.

 

Please let us know by what you mean by "preoccupied" - some kids do go too far, so examples would be helpful!

[gardenmom5]

words don't change feelings, that must come from within. get her in a dance class, yoga class, barre class, some regular form of exercise she will come to enjoy (they are things you can do in a class, or youtube or DVD). it will be something she has control over, that she can do, and feel good about. the suggestions I made are things that will build long and lean muscles. they will also strengthen muscles that affect posture. when she's older, and doesn't have the sensitivity of a 'tween, she will still be able to do some form of exercise and it will physically feel good. It will also show in her outward appearance.

[Tita Gidge]

How do you talk to your daughter about body image? My 11 year old has been very preoccupied lately about her body. She isn't overweight nor is she super skinny. She'll never be stick thin and will have curves and hips. Many of her friends are very thin right now. I'm just not sure what to say to her. I've tried telling her she is beautiful and that we are all different. That isn't working so well. What else do you say?

 

She isn't exposed to fashion mags, pre-teen shows, etc... I thought maybe we could avoid this by homeschooling :blushing: I asked her if someone had said something to her and she said no.

 

Kelly

 

I'm petite. Like, so small that other grown-ups feel it's acceptable to pat me on the head and squeal how "cute" I am.

 

Like I'm a smurf, or something. Middle-aged, touch-me-again-and-I'll-smurf-you-into-next-week-y Smurf, perhaps ....

 

Anyway, my daughter is not petite. She got her dad's sumo-esque stature. She's never been thin like her cousins or her friends. She's soft, squishy, and she'll definitely be curvy. She notices the differences, and she's younger than your daughter. I think that's okay. Before this she noticed that her friends were all from parents of a single race (White, Black, Mexican, Asian) whereas her parents were of different races. I think it's normal for kids to acknowledge the differences they see; first, the easily identifiable ones (like body) and as they mature, the more abstract ones (like morals).

 

You can't say anything to her that will make her less pre-occupied. In fact, I wonder if the more you DO say ... the more she'll focus on it. You're telling her all of the right things, but to her mind it's all of the wrong things. She thinks you HAVE to tell her she's beautiful; you're her mom. She might believe you, she might want to believe you, she might think you're full of it - but whatever the case, it doesne't hold the weight with her that you are hoping it will. She needs that validation from somewhere else. The idea mentioned above about Shakira is a good way for your DD to recognize that validation through her own eyes. Beyonce, too. There are others. The Kardashians (ick, but hey - they're curvy!)

 

So what do you tell her? You tell her that Jose Eber once shared words to the effect that he found fame and fortune because people always wanted what they couldn't have. She won't know who he is, so maybe that's not a great idea. Who cares what some old guy in a stupid hat said a thousand years ago??!? LOL, but here's another one that might be more familiar to her: Gertrude McFuzz. It's pretty relevant if you think about it. Re-read it to her, discuss the story, see if she can connect the dots. Leave the book in her bathroom, she'll flip through it again. It won't cure her preoccupation, but maybe it'll push some of it out of the way.

 

But really, I'd try to stay out of it. Don't ask her if anyone said anything to her about it, don't try to get into her head. Don't give her reasons to wonder if she isn't right to be preoccupied with it. When parents try hard to keep us from doing/feeling something, we always get suspicious - don't we? Wondering why? You're past the age of blind trust, and are entering the age of asserting independent ideas, thoughts, beliefs. However well-intentioned, don't try to reassure her in ways SHE will receive as blowing smoke up her hiney. Be ninja-like and stealth in your approach, making available exposure to people who resemble her body so she sees (and can believe, since she thinks she figured it out on her own) she may be different from her friends but the world is bigger than her circle of friends ... and there are others out there like her :) embracing their bodies, learning how to dress for their bodies to play up their assets and downplay their not-assets!

 

And - kind of stupid, but serious suggestion: Watch a few episodes of What Not To Wear. Let Kelly and Clinton give her indirect advice on how to dress her body type. They take in all shapes and sizes, and positively encourage each person to work with what they have body-wise. Kelly's facial expressions drive me nuts, but her suggestions are helpful. Might be worth a try?

[poppy]

Tell your husband to tell her she is beautiful, more than once. It will make a difference, even if she seems to shrug it off.

[Sandragood1]

Check out Mighty Girl. Dot com, I think. There are book lists and such with strong, positive female characters. Maybe throwing a few of these into her reading lists could help.

 

[regentrude]

In our family, we are all of normal weight, but nobody has a skinny/petite body type.

When we talk about it, we emphasize fitness over size.

We emphasize that, as long as DD can hike ten miles with a backpack or climb 14,000 ft high mountains, she does not need to worry about weight.

[regentrude]

These are great years for educating her in skin care, exercise & diet and how they all affect our overall health, not just our appearance. Things that would be fun to do with her would be a "spa day" of sorts:

• Pick up a couple of books on hair & makeup for her to have on hand to "play with" the info.

• Take her to get her hair done (and done well)

• Get her a shampoo for her hair type and whatever else she needs to take care of her new style

• let her get a manicure & a facial (or do it yourself at home)

• visit the makeup counter at a shopping mall for some basic skin care tips and get a few basic makeup supplies, like mascara, blush & lip gloss (buy at least one thing from the makeup counter as a courtesy, please)

• Take her to Target & get her a cute exercise outfit and plan a schedule with her where you can walk or run together (nothing like a pre-teen as an accountability partner)

• Find a good resource on nutrition (not diet, nutrition) to have on hand

• Get her a basic, age appropriate etiquette book.

 

 

 

I think this is can lead to more preoccupation with looks and sends the message that external attractiveness is so very important. For me, that would be exactly the opposite of what I would want to accomplish with a preteen who struggles with body image.

I would rather take my daughter rock climbing (or dancing, or riding) to develop a positive body image than projecting the idea that one must have mani/pedi/facial/cute clothes/hairdo in order to feel well within one's body.

I would much prefer she loves her body for all the wonderful things it is able to do than become conditioned to spend money on looks.

[SquirrellyMama]

Tell your husband to tell her she is beautiful, more than once. It will make a difference, even if she seems to shrug it off.

 

I've tried this but he isn't the type to do it. This is really what I wish would happen.

 

Kelly

[SquirrellyMama]

I'll answer a few things:

 

1. What do I mean by preoccupied? She has been asking me if she looks fat in a certain shirt, She said she wanted to try ballet but she didn't think she could because she isn't skinny like most professional ballerinas. Things like that.

 

2. Get her into a sport/dance. She's been in Tae Kwondo and softball for the last 4 years. She is an active kid. She might be quitting Tae Kwondo for a while and starting ballet.

 

3. Don't say much or I will make it worse. I really haven't said much. I did ask her if someone said something to her because she asked me right after softball if she looked fat in her jersey. Other than that I do tell her she's beautiful and not just when she asks if she looks fat. I'd love for my dh to tell her also but even with me most of the time I look "fine". I loathe the word fine.

[SquirrellyMama]

 

I think this is can lead to more preoccupation with looks and sends the message that external attractiveness is so very important. For me, that would be exactly the opposite of what I would want to accomplish with a preteen who struggles with body image.

I would rather take my daughter rock climbing (or dancing, or riding) to develop a positive body image than projecting the idea that one must have mani/pedi/facial/cute clothes/hairdo in order to feel well within one's body.

I would much prefer she loves her body for all the wonderful things it is able to do than become conditioned to spend money on looks.

 

How do you help her see that what her body can do is more important than how it looks? We hike, we bike, we walk, etc... but she still isn't seeing this. I understand that we all go through it but how can I help her through it. I did not come through it well.

 

Kelly

[Tita Gidge]

 

I think this is can lead to more preoccupation with looks and sends the message that external attractiveness is so very important. For me, that would be exactly the opposite of what I would want to accomplish with a preteen who struggles with body image.

I would rather take my daughter rock climbing (or dancing, or riding) to develop a positive body image than projecting the idea that one must have mani/pedi/facial/cute clothes/hairdo in order to feel well within one's body.

I would much prefer she loves her body for all the wonderful things it is able to do than become conditioned to spend money on looks.

 

 

I think the way a girl might take TechWife's approach really just depends on the girl's inherent personality.

 

For me, I've always been middle of the road. I enjoy fashion, I love me a good spa day, and I do use cosmetics and a decent razor to further enhance what the good Lord gave me.

 

Then there's my sister, a fashionista who becomes positively charged by dolling up her external appearance. Full makeup, gorgeous hair (care and style both), trendy clothes, the whole deal.

 

We both play on an adult soccer team, and are comparatively skilled. She looks better put together LOL, but we're both proud of our athletic abilities. Paying attention to her external attractiveness doesn't mutually exclude her from loving her body for what it can do ... I guess I don't see the issue as being so black and white. I think one can love her body for what it does, but also for how it looks. Especially since the potential for one to go overboard exists in BOTH cases, not just the one. There are plenty of body image issues amongst athletes and performers, all fit and in prime physical health.

 

But anyway, my point is that some people are just born wired to care more about their external appearance. Ignoring that isn't going to change how they view things. If you're dealing with a girl who DOES care about her appearance, you have to meet her where she is ... not force her over to where you are. For that type of girl, TechWife's advice is spot on and will appeal to a girl's innate desire/need to feel attractive on the outside.

 

We may know that one needn't make-up or any of the other accoutrements to be beautiful, but most of us have arrived there through the benefit of life experience. An 11 year old doesn't have much of that to work off of. Those fortunate enough to have always been comfortable with their bodies might not fully understand how someone could not be; this is as much an issue about a girl feeling heard, as it is about her accepting her body.

[regentrude]

Paying attention to her external attractiveness doesn't mutually exclude her from loving her body for what it can do ... I guess I don't see the issue as being so black and white. I think one can love her body for what it does, but also for how it looks.

 

 

But what if one simply does not look "good" according to society's standards?

Despite what political correctness says, not everybody is what society considers "pretty" and may be unable to achieve that standard even with facials, nail care, makeup and clothes. So what if, despite putting effort into these things, one still does not live up to society's beauty standards? Then mom taking girl to all those will just have further cemented that good looks is terribly important and worth spending a lot of time and effort on. What does catering to the culture of vanity teach a preteen who may not be genetically predisposed to achieve the goal of satisfying society's standard for "beauty"?

[regentrude]

How do you help her see that what her body can do is more important than how it looks? We hike, we bike, we walk, etc... but she still isn't seeing this.

 

 

We do physical things she can be proud of. Things that are achievements many people are not capable of. Walking the trail at the park or hiking in the Missouri hills do not produce this feeling. Climbing a high mountain or a difficult sport climbing route does.

[Tita Gidge]

I'll answer a few things:

 

1. What do I mean by preoccupied? She has been asking me if she looks fat in a certain shirt, She said she wanted to try ballet but she didn't think she could because she isn't skinny like most professional ballerinas. Things like that.

 

2. Get her into a sport/dance. She's been in Tae Kwondo and softball for the last 4 years. She is an active kid. She might be quitting Tae Kwondo for a while and starting ballet.

 

3. Don't say much or I will make it worse. I really haven't said much. I did ask her if someone said something to her because she asked me right after softball if she looked fat in her jersey. Other than that I do tell her she's beautiful and not just when she asks if she looks fat. I'd love for my dh to tell her also but even with me most of the time I look "fine". I loathe the word fine.

 

 

1. Are you honest with her when she asks? Not brutally, cut-her-down honest, obviously, but can she trust your opinion when she seeks it out? Has she seen Fantasia? Even a hippo can do ballet ;) Honestly, though, she might not resemble most professional ballerinas, but that's putting the cart before the horse - isn't it? Who says she'll like ballet enough to want to pursue it professionally, much less beyond a year? This is a great time to teach her to pursue things that interest her, for no reason other than they interest her. Not everything has to have a long-term reason behind it, right? So you address the body image issue without calling it out directly.

 

2. Sounds like you're already encouraging her to pursue things that interest her. I hope she takes you up on it, and ends up trying out ballet :) Even better if she ends up loving it!

 

3. Maybe "beautiful" is too generic. I still maintain that coming from a parent (either parent) it sounds superficial and expected, and thereby not trustworthy, especially once you approach puberty. But I'm admittedly cynical, and I know not all kids are. So perhaps more specific comments might be received better, if you do feel the need to comment on her beauty to reassure her of it. Things like, "Hey, that purple shirt really makes your eyes pop!" or "Looks like you spent extra time on your hair today; it looks great." I guess you'd want to avoid falling into the trap of becoming your husband by regularly using a single generic word ("beautiful" instead of "fine") rather than specifics your daughter can trust.

[J-rap]

I have four daughters, and because I had two friends growing up who ended up having severe eating disorders and image problems, I wanted to be very careful how I handled this with my own daughters.

 

I decided to never talk about weight and physical appearance. Not regarding myself, not regarding others. I never made comments that belittled my own looks or others. I never said, "Oh I wish I had straighter hair or slimmer calves" or "Boy, that lady should lose some weight!" etc. I tried to model a healthy lifestyle, healthy eating, keeping fit. I didn't spend a lot of time on my own looks, never went to stylists, never had manicures. At the same time (so that you don't think I'm a complete slob! haha), I think I modeled someone who took care of herself, treated her body kindly, and dresses tactfully and sometimes even stylishly. :)

 

I didn't talk about eating disorders and body image problems for a long time, because I have seen first hand how that attitude can be almost contagious, strangely. And when you homeschool, it's a subject that can usually be put off. I think when they saw their cousin getting skinnier and skinnier and was eventually hospitalized, I realized it was time to discuss it with my older two.

 

We also used humor a lot in everything. For example, we tend to have big calves! It's just hereditary. We joke about it all the time, calling them majestic. But I have never said "Oh my gosh, I have to hide them! I hate them!"

 

We concentrated on skills, talents, inner-beauty; the physical appearance part really very, very rarely ever came up in our conversations.

 

I don't know if this helps at all, because it seems like you tried to do a lot of this too, and your daughter is still struggling. I'd work hard at building up her self-confidence, helping her find interests where she can excel. Help her feel that she is in control of things in her life. If her friends are not only thin but seem to have the wrong emphasis on things (and that might not be the case at all), I'd steer your daughter into spending her time elsewhere.

 

Sorry this got kind of long... A lot of rambling! It's something I have always felt strongly about and I could probably go on and on about it.

 

You have gotten great advice from others too! All the best to you and your dear daughter!

[Tita Gidge]

 

But what if one simply does not look "good" according to society's standards?

Despite what political correctness says, not everybody is what society considers "pretty" and may be unable to achieve that standard even with facials, nail care, makeup and clothes. So what if, despite putting effort into these things, one still does not live up to society's beauty standards? Then mom taking girl to all those will just have further cemented that good looks is terribly important and worth spending a lot of time and effort on. What does catering to the culture of vanity teach a preteen who may not be genetically predisposed to achieve the goal of satisfying society's standard for "beauty"?

 

 

I wouldn't know; I'm gorgeous by society's standards.

 

(Kidding.)

 

Have you ever seen a picture of the Real Housewives tv show? Any franchise, really. There are some truly ugly women but they're making do with what they have. They're putting lipstick on that pig and pulling it off just fine. I live in an affluent town where trophy wives aren't unusual. 2nd and 3rd wives 20-30 years younger than their husbands, and the rare 1st wife in her 50s-60s still trying to compete with these ladies.

 

I work with the public, so on any given day I see society's physical goddesses and it's physical trolls. The thing is, even the least attractive person can make efforts to look "pretty" - maybe not gorgeous, but pretty. Society values clear skin, shiny hair, and clean teeth. It's not an unattainable standard. I've had periods in my life where I've been lucky to have only the clean teeth, so believe me when I say I get it. But some trolls turn out to be really nice people. And some goddesses turn out to be jerks. And while I may more admire one from afar, once I get close I note the greater of the two. Some trolls have a chip on their shoulder, some goddesses are truly beautiful inside and out -- however the story goes, slapping on some mascara doesn't define a person.

 

Introducing a girl to the world of cosmetics and facials doesn't mean she'll suddenly walk out the door as Society's Ideal; I never suggested it would. But if a girl is interested in her outward appearance (as the OP's daughter is) downplaying or dismissing it's importance to her isn't going to change that it matters to her. And that was the point of my post -- for some girls, TechWife's suggestions were good ones. There are girls who care about this sort of thing, whether we see value in it or not.

 

It has nothing to do with meeting society's values. It's meeting this type of girl where she is, and working with HER reality instead of MY ideal. That's the only way to successfully address a problem, isn't it?

 

I think it's a silly stretch to suggest there's no sliding scale, and to go right from "cares about external appearance" to "vanity" -- I mean, before you go to work don't you brush your teeth, your hair? Does this make you vain? It doesn't have to be make-up, but the truth is - makeup applied correctly does enhance even the ugliest of society's creatures. It may not be worth the hassle to some, but that's a different topic. I think it's important to recognize vanity does exist, but I don't think that all females who care about their appearance automatically fall into that category. That sounds like a bitter old frau mentality, to me.

 

I am the most homely of all my sisters. They tell me so LOL. I know it to be true, and it really doesn't bother me because I have other (non-physical) attributes that they lack. When I say I understand your point, it's because I'm living it.

[Tita Gidge]

What regentrude said and the fact that at some point in our lives most of us will not live up to the ideal in the looks department. My mother became extremely upset and distraught about her looks as she got older because as she said many times she felt that her looks were all she had. She didn't feel smart. She didn't feel like she was good at anything. She knew she was attractive, but as we age, for the most part that diminishes. Yes, there are some gorgeous older women, but I still don't think older women are often appreciated for their physical beauty.

 

 

I think you've summed up the rub. And so much more concisely than I!

 

Your mom is an example of what happens when one places too much stock in one's outward appearance. She let her attractiveness define her, then struggled to define herself once she felt she was losing her looks.

 

But general caring about one's external appearance doesn't always equal vanity. Plenty of people take time for facials, waxing, make-up, highlights, or whatever it is that makes them feel pretty who DON'T let their looks define them.

 

Regentrude's post left me feeling like one could either be plain or vain,and that there wasn't a middle ground that most of society falls into.

[SquirrellyMama]

Everyone has given me a lot to think about. I'll try and use many of these ideas. My dd11 has always been pretty laid back preferring jeans and t-shirts. I think she would enjoy a facial day with me while still going to softball that night :) She's hitting puberty hard this year and I think it is throwing her for a loop.

 

Kelly

[regentrude]

. Society values clear skin, shiny hair, and clean teeth. It's not an unattainable standard.

 

 

Tell this to any girl who is battling acne. Tell her she simply did not work hard enough to achieve this "not unattainable" standard.

[texasmama]

In helping my now 17 year old dd to develop a positive body image, I have done the following:

- point out my flaws and let her see that I am not terribly bothered by them

- tell her that not all men like stick figures because everyone has a different preference (once the comments started coming regarding how no one would ever want to date her)

- let her see my in various stages of undress so she knows what a curvy woman looks like (she is built much like me - we are tall, curvy Amazon women)

- engage in discussions regarding genetics and tell her about my skinny friends from high school and how some of them are still very skinny - it is just their genetic make-up

- point out celebrities who have curves

- point out that celebrities are not a good measure of the "average woman" :D

-listen to her thoughts and feelings, empathize and tell her that every teen girl and boy feels insecure about themselves, including their physical appearance because we all have flaws

 

Of these approaches, probably the most effective has been letting her see me rcck some curves and talk about the junk in my trunk, etc. in a way a way that is a bit humorous and shows her that my lack of being a supermodel is not a detriment to me having a happy life in any way. I also have a husband who finds me attractive, and I tell her this. He found me attractive many years ago when we first met, and I was not model-thin then, either. Far from it.

 

Your dd is young and is just getting used to the fact that her body is changing so many of my approaches will only be helpful as she gets older. I recall being her age and hating the changes in my body. I was a tomboy. I didn't want a bra! I felt that my body was betraying me with the changes. If she can begin to understand that many of these feelings and thoughts are universal, I think that is a good start. Hugs, mama.

 

 

 

[Starr]

I found that there is often a stage where nothing is quite right. Mostly because they don't know what *right* would be. I wouldn't make too much out of it. She's active and talking with you, that's important. Ballet might be more of a problem because the girls her age may have started a few years ago.

[regentrude]

Regentrude's post left me feeling like one could either be plain or vain,and that there wasn't a middle ground that most of society falls into.

 

 

That is not what i meant to say.

My point was that with a girl who is already battling self image issues I would try not to focus even more attention on looks, but divert the attention to other aspects of her personality that make her feel good about her body.

 

There is nothing wrong with caring for one's appearance; however, when appearance becomes a source of doubt and low self esteem, it is important to help the girl worry less about it, not more.

[elegantlion]

No daughters here, but I've had a horrible body image forever. My mom didn't help. She is tall and built like a classic lady, hourglass figure, long legs. I inherited my dad's stature, short arms, short legs, big butt. I feel like a hobbit next to an elf with my mother. She would try, but her words of my youth still ring in my ears. "You would be so pretty if..."

 

I adore my mother, but she still comments on appearance. She commented, nicely, on mine the other day. By the end of our time together I felt like that little girl again.

 

So your words and comments, they were never real conversations, just comments, can have so much power.

 

I agree about watching What Not to Wear. I adore that they show people how to pick clothes to suit a real body. Plus at her age, so many girls will be in vastly different stages of development. I went through puberty early. By 13 I was done growing height and weight. Some girls weren't and I felt fat and ugly. I look at pictures now and Wow! I was thin.

 

I also agree about fitness, focus on that and instilling good posture (again careful with the comments). Even though there are a plethora of bad role models out there, there are good ones too. Mary Lou Retton was popular when I was a teen. Seeing a strong woman with a not so stereotypical build helped my image.

 

But the most powerful thing over my body image has been my own mother's words. I'm 45, some of that is still true.

[AnIslandGirl]

If your dd is honestly comparing herself to her peers, you may want to step back and look at them in a different light. What qualities do the "popular girls" share? Is it just their size or are there other elements that your dd might not have. I realize that you are not exposing your dd to fashion magazines and pre-teen shows, but are her friends getting influenced by these and your dd is feeling a little left out by not realizing what the current trends may be. I'm not saying that she has to (nor should she) jump on the trendy bandwagon for everything, but sometimes when you are feeling left out or left behind, your own image is the first thing you look to criticize.

I admit to not being the best role model for my dd9 as far as body image. She has seen me cry at not fitting into a favorite designers bikini as the summer season roles around. But in the same breath, she sees me eat healthier and work out, finding acceptable solutions to get back on track. We do days at the spa together and take long-weekend shopping vacations, but these are more of a bonding time than a focus on looks.

This thread comes at a great time for me, as dd9 is turning into a young lady right before my eyes. I hope I can find the grace that many of you have shown your dd's.

[DianeW88]

I do agree that not saying negative things about your own looks is helpful, but that is no guarantee your dds won't have body image issues.

 

It's the age. At puberty, girls start looking at themselves in terms of attractiveness. It's the nature of the beast. Then they compare themselves to their friends, celebrities, other girls and women around them. "How do I measure up?" "Am I as attractive as she is?" "My best friend is prettier than I am." Not to mention, other kids will make PLENTY of comments on what is attractive and who is good looking. YOU may not say anything negative to your own kids, but if they fall short in the looks department...they will know this from their peers.

 

And it isn't that other kids are saying, "Wow, you're fat," or "Your nose is huge, can't you fix that?" It's more likely that they are noticing other girls getting attention they aren't. Girls are making positive comments to Suzy, "You are so pretty!" "Your hair is gorgeous!" "You look so cute in those jeans.", and not to her. Kids notice that. And they quickly learn where they stand, looks-wise, in comparison to others.

 

And boys are very quick to notice this as well. The pretty girls get all the attention. Teenage boys are not subtle and they're not sensitive. And an off-hand remark from one of them can send a girl into a downward spiral for a long time.

 

Whether or not your dds ever hear anything about attractiveness or the lack thereof, the media is all around them. They know the standard of beauty in this country and whether or not they meet it, simply by going to the grocery store and seeing the magazines in the check out stand. It's everywhere. And quite frankly, the headlines I've been seeing for the last little while is how FAT Kim Kardashian is these days now that she's pregnant. How she eats like a cow and looks like one, too. You can tell your dds that the Kardashian girls are curvy and still beautiful, but those magazine covers are telling them that the Kardashian girls are just plain fat, and they need to fix that. Yesterday.

 

And that's the crux of the matter. Today's standards are what they are. Nothing is going to change in society. Thin and gorgeous is what is held up as the beauty ideal in this country, and anyone who is not both of those things falls short. Some women could care less, because their self-esteem is not dependent on that. For other women, their world implodes if they gain five pounds.

 

For pre-teen and teen girls....being attractive IS important to them. I think if your dd shows an interest, then going to a salon, learning to apply makeup, exercising, dressing to accentuate their positive features, etc. is going to help her feel good about herself. And if she has a good self-esteem as a teen, then hopefully that will carry over into her adult life, when she has the maturity to know that artificial standards don't mean that much and that true beauty comes from within. Very, very, few girls have enough confidence to feel that way at 13. But it is something that can be built on. And looking and feeling the best you can go a long way toward achieving that goal.

[TechWife]

I dunno, you don't think that doing all these things sends the message that women are supposed to do these things to be attractive? I don't do most of those things and I feel just fine about myself. And I'm certainly not perfect looking, nor super thin, nor anything special in the looks department. And wouldn't this make her obsess more over her looks/body?

 

I don't think it's a big deal if some women do these things. That's not what I am saying. But I think women should do it if they want, not because they think it is something they must do.

 

 

Yes, that's possible if it's thats the way it is presented. However, when a loving mother (or sister, or aunt or friend) teaches a young girl how to care for her body appropriately and to embrace her femininity, then it can help her realize that she is "one of the girls" and that the body changes she is going through are perfectly normal.

 

I don't do most of those things, either, and I'm not proposing that they be a regular part of her life, but that the mom can make sure that her daughter has some tools to help her navigate our western culture and at the same time, show her that being a woman can be fun.

 

It is all in how it is presented.

[gardenmom5]

I'll answer a few things:

 

1. What do I mean by preoccupied? She has been asking me if she looks fat in a certain shirt, She said she wanted to try ballet but she didn't think she could because she isn't skinny like most professional ballerinas. Things like that.

professional ballerinas have been doing ballet for years. they didn't start out "skinny". doing ballet developed the long lean muscles she sees. (and they are more muscular than most women of average 'size'.) there have been a number of reviews/threads on various 'barre' routines for physical fitness. women who started them as adults, developed the long lean muscle. I do yoga, and am developing long lean muscle. I am by no means "skinny", but am dropping inches, and things fit better, I have better balance, sense of space around me, etc. I'm also trying to add in a barre routine to my workout regimine.

you might want to consider doing something together. nothing like mutual motivation to keep going.

 

3. Don't say much or I will make it worse. I really haven't said much. I did ask her if someone said something to her because she asked me right after softball if she looked fat in her jersey. Other than that I do tell her she's beautiful and not just when she asks if she looks fat. I'd love for my dh to tell her also but even with me most of the time I look "fine". I loathe the word fine.

baseball jersey's aren't known for being flattering to anyone.

 

back to the studies on praise - it is far more effective to praise children for things they can control, and in a way they know what they did to earn the praise. then they can repeat the action to get more praise. telling her she's "beautiful" can come across as you are concerned she's not "pretty" so you have to feed her self-image. this was something that came out in the study - children see that type of feedback (in many areas e.g. you're smart vs you worked hard on your studies) as condescending. I discussed it with a couple of my olders (who were older teens/twenty's at the time) and they both heartily agreed it was true in their experience and actually hurts their self-image. they ignored teachers who said things like that. (even my brilliant dd - who seriously ticked off a prof because she didn't want to be her protoge.)

 

Ballet might be more of a problem because the girls her age may have started a few years ago.

 

ballet classes are segregated according to level and age - she wouldn't be in with girls who've been doing it for years.

[DianeW88]

And I see you brought up ballet. That's one area I can address. LOL My dd is a professional dancer, and yes, body image can take a beating in ballet.

 

However, your dd would be doing recreational ballet, where there are girls of all shapes and sizes. Body type doesn't matter so much there. There were plenty of non-ballet bodies at the studio my dd attended in the "after school hours" classes. They were there to have fun and to enjoy dance.

 

In the pre-professional side of the studio, the girls took class from 11:30 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., M-F, as they were training for a career. And yes, those girls were thin. They have to be. Being on stage adds a good 10-15 pounds to a dancer. No idea why, but it does. So most ballerinas are underweight. Healthy (because companies will kick out most dancers with a serious eating disorder...they're unreliable, often ill, and don't have the strength to dance well), but underweight. My dd is 5'5" tall and weighs between 108 and 114 pounds, depending on whether she's dancing or on hiatus. She is very muscular and toned, but she is thin. She loves to eat, and she has no problem with doing it. LOL

 

Your dd will see thin dancers in the studio and probably in her class, so if that would be bothersome to her, try and find a studio that focuses on all kinds of dance and is not strictly classical ballet. Don't go to a pre-professional studio.

 

Ballet is a great form of exercise and doing it consistently (more than once a week) will tone and shape your body. If your dd is overweight and looking to slim down, you will need to add cardio to her day. Ballet class for beginning dancers is nowhere close to rigorous enough. When they are advanced....yes, it's very rigorous and the girls are short of breath and dripping with sweat at the end of class. Doing aerobics at home with your dd could be great fun for both of you and give her a consistent cardio routine for her day. Turbo Fire by Beach Body is a fun workout, and the instructor focuses on how healthy exercise is for your body, not about how thin it will make you. It has fun music, too!!

[TechWife]

 

I think this is can lead to more preoccupation with looks and sends the message that external attractiveness is so very important. For me, that would be exactly the opposite of what I would want to accomplish with a preteen who struggles with body image.

I would rather take my daughter rock climbing (or dancing, or riding) to develop a positive body image than projecting the idea that one must have mani/pedi/facial/cute clothes/hairdo in order to feel well within one's body.

I would much prefer she loves her body for all the wonderful things it is able to do than become conditioned to spend money on looks.

 

Well, we don't know that this girl is abnormally preoccupied. However, I can say from personal experience, ignoring what has become important to someone (appearance) can backfire. If no one teaches this young lady how to take care of her body, it's quite possible she will think her body isn't worth taking care of. In another year, that can mean uncontrolled acne, eating issues, basic hygiene issues, dandruff, etc.. How will that help her feel good within her body?

 

If your daughter participates in a physical activity, like those you mentioned, do you not show her how to put her hair up so that it is out of the way (can she wear a hairband that's her favorite color), to wear deodorant (can the deodorant smell good to her) and the proper shoes (maybe with her favorite color shoelaces), comb tangles out of her hair when she's finished with the activity (maybe with a pink comb), take a shower when she gets home (with some of that nifty Suave body wash you can pick up at Walmart)?

 

I am merely suggesting that this mom allow her daughter to have fun exploring her body image - there's nothing at all wrong with mascara, a cute haircut and learning about nutrition, exercise & personal care, as I have proposed. Not everything in life has to be utilitarian. If mom sends the message "this is all there is" - that's the problem. Equally problematic is "you're wrong to even be thinking of these things," which is where this could easily head. There is nothing wrong with being a feminine woman & girls need to know that.

[I.Dup.]

My 11yo is going through this too. She wants to be told she is pretty 100 times a day, and I often go along with it (she's beautiful and I tell her that often, but it makes me uncomfortable to focus on it as much as she wants to...I'm going with it because I do know it's the age and insecurity that comes with it).

 

I agree with what Diane said about peers- it is brutal during this stage. I also DO think it's important that mom isn't obsessing about calories, weight, food, body stuff, etc. So many moms today are even more paranoid about diet than when I was growing up (back then people just worried about fat content, now they worry about everything regarding food!) and growing up in a household that was paranoid about food was a big factor in my anxiety with food and my eventual eating disorder.

 

It's hard to raise girls in our society. I think God knew what He was doing when He gave me only one. ;)

[TechWife]

Tell this to any girl who is battling acne. Tell her she simply did not work hard enough to achieve this "not unattainable" standard.

 

Here :seeya: - that would be me! I didn't have a bad acne problem as a youth, but I do as an adult. Bad acne is physically painful. Thankfully, there are some really effective treatments out there and controlling acne is attainable. It isn't just about appearance for me, I'll likely have to actively treat acne until I am menopausal. Withholding the education about skin care and making other treatments available (many of which are really cheap, thanks to generics), now that would be harsh.

[DianeW88]

 

So if I don't wear make up and paint my nails, I'm not "taking care of my body"? I don't see anything wrong with doing these things, but I'm just trying to imagine how this would be helpful to a girl who is down about her looks. "Mom I'm fat and ugly." "Oh honey, you are not, we can go and get your nails and face done." What the girl might hear is that mom agrees she isn't good enough as is, but can be improved upon with makeup and painted nails.

Well, I always feel better after a day at the spa! I love doing all the things they do in a spa. Love it. If you're a girly girl and having a nice manicure is important to you, then yes...it will make you feel better. Nobody is saying the dd "isn't good enough", just that she wants to do a fun activity that might improve her self image. And yes, having a decent manicure improves my self image. I DO feel better about myself if I'm wearing cute clothes, have all my makeup on, have my hair fixed, and have exercised that day. I don't feel BAD about myself if I haven't, but those things make me feel prettier and I like feeling pretty. My self esteem is great either way, I just don't like looking like a fright. Honestly, why not be as cute as you can be? It's more fun. :D

[TechWife]

 

So if I don't wear make up and paint my nails, I'm not "taking care of my body"?

 

Nope, I didn't say that & that's not what I meant.

[Katy]

I'd be honest - what is the most "fashionable" body type changes over time, but what is the most "attractive" body type to men generally doesn't- a .6 hip/waist ratio, etc.

 

She can change her body type if she wishes, but it is a lot of hard work and if she insists on doing so I'd want to first know why- does she want to be a professional ballerina? Did she see a few episodes of bunheads and think ballerinas are pretty and sophisticated and feminine? Did a boy she knows comment on how a ballerina is attractive? What is her motivation?

 

Then, if I decided her motivations were okay and she just wanted to develop long lean muscles and that body type because she either genuinely wanted to be a dancer or genuinely thought that was the prettiest body type and the one she wanted, I'd treat it like pretty much anything else my kids pursued - I'd be very supportive, but insist she do so in as healthy a manor as possible. I'd probably find a sports nutritionist who works with teens or ballerinas for a meal plan that was appropriate, get her into ballet, and give her a couple Tracy Anderson DVD's.

 

Edit: I have the Tracy Anderson Metamorphosis program already, but it is a very expensive thing for a young girl. I think I saw a similar but less expensive program of hers at Walmart a few months ago for way less money that included a yoga mat.

[I.Dup.]

 

Well, we don't know that this girl is abnormally preoccupied. However, I can say from personal experience, ignoring what has become important to someone (appearance) can backfire. If no one teaches this young lady how to take care of her body, it's quite possible she will think her body isn't worth taking care of. In another year, that can mean uncontrolled acne, eating issues, basic hygiene issues, dandruff, etc.. How will that help her feel good within her body?

 

If your daughter participates in a physical activity, like those you mentioned, do you not show her how to put her hair up so that it is out of the way (can she wear a hairband that's her favorite color), to wear deodorant (can the deodorant smell good to her) and the proper shoes (maybe with her favorite color shoelaces), comb tangles out of her hair when she's finished with the activity (maybe with a pink comb), take a shower when she gets home (with some of that nifty Suave body wash you can pick up at Walmart)?

 

I am merely suggesting that this mom allow her daughter to have fun exploring her body image - there's nothing at all wrong with mascara, a cute haircut and learning about nutrition, exercise & personal care, as I have proposed. Not everything in life has to be utilitarian. If mom sends the message "this is all there is" - that's the problem. Equally problematic is "you're wrong to even be thinking of these things," which is where this could easily head. There is nothing wrong with being a feminine woman & girls need to know that.

 

I agree that teaching hygiene is very important. For some reason I've noticed a lot of homeschooling families let this slide. :confused1: They allow their kids to go around smelling of sweat, not having clean hair or brushing it, etc. I focus a lot on hygiene with my kids. That's not to say my little ones don't wear the same outfit for 3 days in a row until it gets dirty, lol, so I'm not a total prude about it, but my kids will not be going around with greasy hair smelling like sweat.

 

I focus on this a LOT with my daughter. She is just now finally starting to show signs of being interested in taking showers on her own, this is something I have had to coach her in and coddle her through every other day for years and years. I have shown her 100 times how to scrub her hair, her face, and her ears. She has wanted nothing to do with it. But I require it and if she doesn't do it, I do it for her myself (STILL!!). My mom has worried that using the word "greasy" in regard to her hair will cause her to have self esteem issues, but whatever. I will NOT let my kids grow up thinking they can get through society just fine being greasy and smelling gross.

 

My dd has acne and if it got really bad, we would put her on medication. I require them to brush their teeth well so there is no plaque.

 

Hygiene is something that everyone can do that makes them much more pleasant to be around. We know a homeschooling family who for some reason has not taught this to their kids and their older daughters (in their early 20s) smell like a locker room that has never been cleaned. It's gross. I don't get it but I will NOT let that happen to my kids. In fact, when I worry about dying, that is one of the main things I worry about- who will get on my kids about their hygiene? :lol:

[TechWife]

I don't see anything wrong with doing these things, but I'm just trying to imagine how this would be helpful to a girl who is down about her looks. "Mom I'm fat and ugly." "Oh honey, you are not, we can go and get your nails and face done." What the girl might hear is that mom agrees she isn't good enough as is, but can be improved upon with makeup and painted nails.

 

The mom's words & actions in this scenario are the problem, not the makeup and nail polish.

[TechWife]

I'll answer a few things:

 

1. What do I mean by preoccupied? She has been asking me if she looks fat in a certain shirt, She said she wanted to try ballet but she didn't think she could because she isn't skinny like most professional ballerinas. Things like that.

 

This doesn't sound abnormal to me at all - she's becoming more aware of her body, that's all. Self consciousness is normal & is not necessarily a preoccupation.

[regentrude]

If your daughter participates in a physical activity, like those you mentioned, do you not show her how to put her hair up so that it is out of the way (can she wear a hairband that's her favorite color), to wear deodorant (can the deodorant smell good to her) and the proper shoes (maybe with her favorite color shoelaces), comb tangles out of her hair when she's finished with the activity (maybe with a pink comb), take a shower when she gets home (with some of that nifty Suave body wash you can pick up at Walmart)?

 

 

We emphasize hygiene and health and not being a nuisance to other people. Of course you shower after mucking out the horse stable or coming back from an extended backpack. You wear deodorant because it bothers the people around you if you stink. You brush teeth to prevent cavities and not smell.

 

It is excellent that you bring up shoes: what the proper shoe is, is dictated by the activity. Good quality hiking, rock climbing shoes and riding boots are important to us. And the fun colored ballet flats are for days that do not demand physical activity (or standing for three hours at her tutoring job, as she found out herself.)

 

I am merely suggesting that this mom allow her daughter to have fun exploring her body image - there's nothing at all wrong with mascara, a cute haircut and learning about nutrition, exercise & personal care, as I have proposed. Not everything in life has to be utilitarian. If mom sends the message "this is all there is" - that's the problem. Equally problematic is "you're wrong to even be thinking of these things," which is where this could easily head. There is nothing wrong with being a feminine woman & girls need to know that.

 

 

Allowing - absolutely, If the child wanted these things, absolutely. But as a response to "I feel fat and ugly" saying "we should get your hair /nails/face done"? What kind of message does that send?

 

Just so you don't get the wrong idea:

My DD does wear lipstick and likes colorful nail polish and enjoys wearing dresses. But not because *I* suggest that these things might fix her self-esteem or should be a source thereof.

And, more importantly: she has no problems getting dirty riding her horse or climbing - instead of being afraid of disturbing her carefully crafted appearance, something I see frequently in girls.

[LucyStoner]

I am curvy and never going to be skinny. I was extremely self conscious about my body despite having a very nice figure as a young girl. What helped me was sports, backpacking, pilates and yoga. I really encourage you to see if she would be interested in a team sport like basketball, volleyball, soceer or softball. There will be all body types represented on the team and likely more girls that look like her than she will ever find represented in media.

[Tita Gidge]

Tell this to any girl who is battling acne. Tell her she simply did not work hard enough to achieve this "not unattainable" standard.

 

I mentioned in my earlier post that I've been that girl. I've been that woman, for that matter.

 

(My aunties keep telling me that when I'm old my oily skin will finally be an asset in keeping the wrinkles away, but in order to get there I must accept the current liability it presents: acne. It is what it is!)

 

I stated what society values: clear skin, shiny hair, clean teeth. I didn't command these values from the heavens, I simply noted what I've experiened in my lifetime. I stated that at any given time I might have only one of these things. I think that's pretty common, and that it's rare the woman who pulls off the trifecta. Even women well-known and celebrated for their beauty can acknowledge their flaws, address them if/as they see fit, and still be lacking in one or more of the three ideals. I mean, we've all seen the ProActive commercials, haven't we?

 

I didn't do a very good job of wording my thoughts in that quote, and for that I aplogize. I'll try again:

 

I believe "pretty" is an attainable standard for all. Does this mean pretty is ONLY those who meet the trifecta? Of course not. We see this in our daily lives and in the celebrity lives our society has elevated - imperfect but pretty people. People who may or may not use an assortment of service or tools to make themselves feel pretty in their own skin.

 

Do I think all females need to resort to services or tools to make themselves feel pretty? No. From the beginning I was clear to state that some personalities are more apt to want/use/desire these things. It's those girls who might benefit from TechWife's advice. Neither she nor I suggested it be the default suggestion for all girls.

 

(But as an aside to a post you wrote down-thread, short of any older sisters or female cousins -- how else might a girl know to seek these things out or to otherwise express an interest? How might she be exposed to know if she's interested or not? It's not out of line for a mother to offer up suggestions in the flavor of TechWife's post. She never suggested a mother command her daughter to get a mani/pedi and wax her eyebrows, she advocated putting it out there on the table - alongside nutrition and hygiene - as one option. Some girls are too shy to bring it up, even with their own parents.)

 

I hope that's a more clear insight into my thoughts. I think you and I come from different places on this topic, and I'm in no way trying to debate this with you (and hopefully it doesn't come across as such). I respect that we have different ways of achieving the same goal. But I did want to clarify for the OP's benefit.

[Tita Gidge]

 

I don't think she meant that at all.

 

I know some women enjoy doing these things and they make them feel good. But I wouldn't focus on those things to help my child feel better because I think it can send the wrong message. If a girl asks to do these things or it turns out she enjoys them, fine. But to solve the issue of a girl feeling down about her body, I'm not so sure.

 

I didn't get the impression that the girl was feeling down about her body, just that she was beginning to notice differences. I see this with my sons and their friends, all the same age but some are pubescent and resemble man-boys whereas others look to be years away from hairs on their chinny chin chins. There are differences. The boys notice them, wonder about them, discuss them amongst each other, ask me about them ... but I wouldn't define that as a preoccupation. With the limited glance into the OP's daughter we've had, I wouldn't consider her preoccupied either. She's noticing differences, wondering about them, discussing them, and asking her mom about them. All very normal IMO/IME.

 

But assuming a girl WAS feeling down about her body ... she's come to me, her mother. I'm going to face this the same way I would any other problem she brought me. I'm not going to handle a problem any differently because we're talking about her body instead of her resume (which I can also help her pretty up!) Resume, acne-pocked skin ... it's all about determining what tools we have available to address the perceived problem area. You figure a plan of action regarding those tools, including whether or not it's worth it (to the person perceiving the problem) to go ahead with the plan of action. That's it.

 

I don't think a girl should have to ask (her mom) about these things. As a mom, I'd rather my daughter ask me than to ask her peers LOL. I have five older sisters that took over that role :) I think it's a reasonable expectation that a mother would offer her daughter a variety of options, including TechWife's suggestions.

 

I think the topic of girls and body image is so wrought with baggage that many people will choose to err on the more cautious side. I don't blame them, but I do agree that there is definite potential to send the wrong message. If a girl is interested in these things, and her mother can't/won't/isn't able to take the lead on helping her sort it all out ... what message does that send?

 

(Rhetorical question.)

[Tita Gidge]

That is not what i meant to say.

My point was that with a girl who is already battling self image issues I would try not to focus even more attention on looks, but divert the attention to other aspects of her personality that make her feel good about her body.

 

There is nothing wrong with caring for one's appearance; however, when appearance becomes a source of doubt and low self esteem, it is important to help the girl worry less about it, not more.

 

 

I believe you that it's not what you meant to say. It's how I read it, and having read further I know I was reading you wrong. Wrongly? (One of those, you get the idea.)

 

I didn't get the impression that her daughter was battling self-image issues. I reada it as she was beginning to notice and explore the differences around her, and in doing so was starting to form her own self-image.

 

Your suggestion of playing up her physical skill was a good one. TechWife's suggestion of introducing her to tools of the trade was also a good one. Different strokes, different folks. Girls, in this case.

 

I'm a fight fire with fire kind of girl. I have a teenage sister whose nose you could land a 747 on. Seriously, the flattest nose in the entire world and very typical of our ethnicity (except that the rest of us managed to escape it). She started hating her nose about the time she hit puberty, because that's when she noticed how flat it was compared to ours. It didn't help that we had moved away from home and to a 96.5% white, American suburb so she really was the only one for miles with this ethnic nose. Oh boy.

 

My telling her she was still an awesome surfer, and flying her to back home to win tournaments, wasn't going to distract her from her nose. I mean, maybe in the water, but what about the times when she's not in the water? Not surfing ... her nose goes with her everywhere, and her distractability quotient peaked when she was still on mom's teat. It would have been a good idea, but not in exclusivity.

 

So I taught her how to apply make-up to minimize the appearance of her nose. Not scads of make-up, as she's not interested in that. She's in the water most of the day. But there are times when she wants to look pretty, and to her that means downplaying her flat nose - the curse of her people. And for those times, she has the tools and knowledge how to. It didn't suddenly turn her into a slave to her appearance. She wears makeup a few times a year, if that; but she knows how to use it as a tool to her advantage for those times she wants to.

 

I wasn't focusing on her looks; I was showing her how to be resourceful in minimizing her perceived flaw so that SHE didn't HAVE to focus on it. I think that was the same basis behind TechWife's suggestions.

 

I can try to divert focus from a girl's appearance until I'm blue in the face, but that doesn't mean she's going to follow me. She may give me the impression that she is, but ... I guarantee she's not. She may even be wondering what's wrong with her that these things DO matter to her when Mom is insisting they don't or shouldn't.

 

Kids are a crapshoot, we're all just aiming in the dark. Hopefully our girls survive us, and I hope they realize how lucky they are that we even give consideration to these things and parent with intention - however we choose to go about it.

[Tita Gidge]

 

Yeah which is a shame because some girls have freckles. Some girls have acne and acne is very difficult to deal with. Shiny hair? Some girls have frizzy nappy hair. Why can't that be beautiful? Or should black girls automatically have their hair straightened and constantly covered with products? And clean teeth? Well sure there are all sorts of things one can do. But tell this to the girl with crooked teeth whose parents cannot afford braces. Or to the girl who does wear braces for years to get the perfect teeth.

 

It goes on and on. Sure we can all shellac our face and hair to look more plastic and perfect, but why MUST we? Why is that the answer?

 

You can be freckled with clear skin. My sister is, any how. Freckles are prized in my culture :) kisses from the gods, they say.

 

Different cultures have different perceptions of beauty, and nowhere did I suggest anyone conform to one culture's ideal. Where I'm from, you try to avoid the sun so as to avoid becoming too dark. Where I live now, people worship the sun because their ideal is a year-round tan. Some of these white women end up darker than I do, and I'm so brown I'm almost black. It's used to freak me out LOL.

 

But within the ideals of most cultures, the ideals remain the same. They are signs of health and fertility, and we're wired to seek them out. Rather, to seek out a mate who meets as many of the ideals as closely as possible that we're able to keep from straying. That's why even when we're imperfect, we still find someone (also imperfect, but of comparable status) to mate and pair with. In whichever order we choose to do those things ;)

 

But the point is, no - not that it's a shame to not meet society's ideals. The shame is denying they exist because we don't wish that they did or think that they should.

 

Uh, nobody said we MUST shellac ourselves as the answer to this. But the answer isn't to deny that some girls may want to be taught that the option exists, and introduced to it. Not all know or will be comfortable broaching Mom, especially if she knows where Mom stands on the issue. The answer is Mom and daughter getting on the same page if a problem is going to be addressed; for the girl to whom it matters, ... well, it matters no matter how badly Mom wishes/thinks it oughtn't.

[Tita Gidge]

So apparently I had a lot to say on that topic ;) LOL.

 

I'll go play somewhere else now. Sorry, Ladies!

[Ann.without.an.e]

First of all, eleven is a difficult age.....if you aren't too curvy, you are too thin. If you aren't too tall, you are too short. All girls struggle at that age. It is normal for them to become overly aware of themselves and super comparative. My dd got curves faster than other girls yet has stayed fairly petite in height. I used to compare the stage she was in to a caterpillar turning into a butterfly. She is a little older now and has come to appreciate her body type. For one, as girls approach high school their moods even out and get better. Just keep encouraging her to be the best, healthy, balanced girl she can be and trust that she will make it through this awkward in between stage and emerge into a gorgeous butterfly :) I would also often remind my dd that the other girls around her usually felt the same way.

 

 

Also, show her this video

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpaOjMXyJGk

[SarahW]

I only scanned some of the comments, but it occurred to me to ask: How much control does your dd have over her own appearance?

 

At 11 she's figuring out her own tastes and styles. Maybe she feels like she needs to explore a more "mature" side, but feels trapped by still being a young girl.

 

Does she pick her own hair cut and style? Does she decide her own style of clothes? Does she feel free to experiment with more styles?

 

When your body is changing rapidly it's easy to feel that nothing is "right." If she doesn't feel like her overall appearance truly expresses her inner "me" then it's easy to think that it is the "me" that is broken.

[SquirrellyMama]

I only scanned some of the comments, but it occurred to me to ask: How much control does your dd have over her own appearance?

 

At 11 she's figuring out her own tastes and styles. Maybe she feels like she needs to explore a more "mature" side, but feels trapped by still being a young girl.

 

Does she pick her own hair cut and style? Does she decide her own style of clothes? Does she feel free to experiment with more styles?

 

When your body is changing rapidly it's easy to feel that nothing is "right." If she doesn't feel like her overall appearance truly expresses her inner "me" then it's easy to think that it is the "me" that is broken.

 

 

I do give her some control. She gets to pick her hairstyle as long as she can maintain it. She can pick out clothing but I have final veto power. I really don't let her dress more mature because she has a way of looking a lot older than she is. I had her picture taken when she was nine and people thought she was 14. That worries me so I try to keep her away from certain styles and make up. I don't see the need for make before the age of 16.

 

She mostly picks out very age appropriate styles so it isn't much of a worry yet.

 

I'm sure she's just going through normal girl stuff. I do worry since a lot of her friends are either tall and skinny or are just by nature stick thin. The next time she asks I have something picked out to say. She is generally mature and will probably be a kids who grows into understanding in a couple years.

 

I'm feeling better after asking.

 

Kelly

[kewb]

We have always made healthy eating and fitness the focus in our house and have always stressed that bodies come in all shapes and sizes. I have been struggling with this the last few years with my almost 12 year old dd. My dd has always been at the top of the charts for height and weight. They have been tracking evenly she is just at the top. She swims 4 days a week for 2 hours. She works out with me 3x a week. I rarely buy junkfood because none of us need it. We have talked about how her weight is something she will need to be aware of all of her life and will have to think about to maintain a healthy weight. She is going to be boxum (like me) and curvy (like me) and she has the added advantage of being built like her father, broad shoulders and all. All of her friends are natural waifs. Sometimes this really bothers her. When she is with them she looks even larger then she is. All the talk in the world about everybody is different and appreciate your curves does absolutely nothing when all of your friends are petite and you are already a c cup. When we go clothes shopping I stress shopping for your body type vs. the latest fashions. I try on things with her so she can see how I can't wear the latest fashions either because I am spilling over. I have to try on tons of jeans to find a pair that fits right.

I also try to never criticize my body in front of her and say I look fat.