Feeling pressured

[PrairieSong]

A very good friend of one of my good friends (I have met her) is living with her daughter. Another daughter, son-in-law, their three young kids, plus a baby on the way, are also living there. Some of them stay in the basement which has mold. Grandma and the daughter, SIL, and grandkids are looking for their own place and my friend told her to call me.

 

We have a duplex becoming available but it is about $200 above what they wanted to spend, though they say they can afford it. They have a dog, which we occasionally allow but dh said he does not want a dog in this duplex. It is a nice place, about 12 years old.

 

I told her dh said he doesn't want a dog in there, and she proceeded to explain how nice this dog is...doesn't growl at people, doesn't make messes or chew, etc. I told her the rent is higher than they wanted, but she said nothing is available for less unless they want to live in a really bad neighborhood.

 

I know what I need to do, so I'm not asking for advice (though I am open to it). You can feel free to commiserate though! It would be easier to say No if she were a stranger.

[Ellie]

I feel your pain. :grouphug:

 

Just say "no." No explanations, because the more explanations you give her, the more she'll be able to argue about, KWIM? "I'm sorry, but we just cannot do it." Alternatively, "I'm so sorry, but we just cannot do it."

[saraha]

:grouphug: "No" is definitely the right answer here

[PrairieSong]

Tough one, but yeah I don't blame you. And if something goes wrong, it's even worse when you are dealing with friends or friends of friends.

 

I thought of that. What if something happens, guy loses his job or whatever, and they can't pay rent? And we have to make them leave? We'll be forever the bad guys.

[PrairieSong]

Another thought in the back of my head, though, is that I know these people well enough to know that they are decent and honest. My very good friend loves the whole family to death. They wouldn't be the ones to tear up a place, etc.

 

IF they did not have a dog and there were fewer people, or the place was bigger, I'd be more likely to consider it. We've been burned more than once with dishonest and just plain awful types who tore up property.

[Tammyla]

I would never make those exceptions for anyone other than family; and then I'd know we were getting into a mess because we loved them.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I was pressured once to rent to a church member who I had legitimate reasons to reject as a renter (as you do). It did not end well - for anyone.

[QuirkyKapers]

Yes, saying no is harder when you know them and they won't take no. Stick to it! You don't want a dog in there and that is that. I agree with WendyK, if something goes wrong it is worse with friends or friends of friends.

[PrairieSong]

I feel your pain. :grouphug:

 

Just say "no." No explanations, because the more explanations you give her, the more she'll be able to argue about, KWIM? "I'm sorry, but we just cannot do it." Alternatively, "I'm so sorry, but we just cannot do it."

 

 

Yep. It's hard to say "no" because then we're the bad guys, but I'd rather have to do a short "no" than some possible long, drawn-out mess later.

 

I'm hoping we'll find another renter soon so we can have a hard and fast reason why the friend of a friend can't rent from us. Dh did see that a couple other, very similar duplexes on the same street are for rent. He is going to call and get info on rents.

[PentecostalMom]

I would only do it IF they let you run a credit check, had verifiable employment of over six months (at least) with enough income to cover the rent (and utilities, etc.), charge a pet deposit and pet rent, and in the contract make sure they have to not only have the carpets cleaned, but also a flea treatment upon move out. You can also charge first, last, and security deposit.

 

You can make up a "sample" lease with all of these terms in it and let them see it. It is possible that they will not be able to swing it. We own a home in Alabama that we rented to people we knew (they just moved out and now we have new tenants). These were all conditions of our lease and they agreed. Just don't treat them any differently than you would any stranger that you would rent to.

 

Our pet deposit is $500, with half refundable, monthly pet rent of $50 per pet, we ran all the checks (you can do this online yourself, we charged an application fee per adult that would be living in the house), and we used all of the other terms I outlined above. Some may think it is over the top, but I have a brand new home that is over 3K square feet and I don't want to take any chances. With anyone. Period.

 

This is no less than a property management company would do.

 

ETA: And do not adjust your rent. If they are interested, and you are considering it, it is business, plain and simple.

[Miss Peregrine]

You already have an out. No dogs. Firm.

[PrairieSong]

I would only do it IF they let you run a credit check, had verifiable employment of over six months (at least) with enough income to cover the rent (and utilities, etc.), charge a pet deposit and pet rent, and in the contract make sure they have to not only have the carpets cleaned, but also a flea treatment upon move out. You can also charge first, last, and security deposit.

 

You can make up a "sample" lease with all of these terms in it and let them see it. It is possible that they will not be able to swing it. We own a home in Alabama that we rented to people we knew (they just moved out and now we have new tenants). These were all conditions of our lease and they agreed. Just don't treat them any differently than you would any stranger that you would rent to.

 

Our pet deposit is $500, with half refundable, monthly pet rent of $50 per pet, we ran all the checks (you can do this online yourself, we charged an application fee per adult that would be living in the house), and we used all of the other terms I outlined above. Some may think it is over the top, but I have a brand new home that is over 3K square feet and I don't want to take any chances. With anyone. Period.

 

This is no less than a property management company would do.

 

ETA: And do not adjust your rent. If they are interested, and you are considering it, it is business, plain and simple.

 

 

 

We were not going to adjust the rent, but as for the bolded above, you mean you run your own background and credit checks? How do you do that? We have always had a company do it for us.

[PrairieSong]

You already have an out. No dogs. Firm.

 

 

Right. I wasn't 100% sure about it because we have allowed pets at times, but dh did tell me he does NOT want pets in this place.

[KatieJ]

As a long time landlord my advice is just say no. We have a policy of not renting to family or friends. Period. We just don't. Tried it once, and it was not pretty. It was actually our first experience as a landlord. We learned a lot of things the hard way over the years. It will be harder to close the conversation now that it has been opened, but it sounds like they will over run you at every turn. Find a way to say no. Do you have a property manager who can deal with it for you?

[Joanne]

{{gentle hugs}} Because I am about to be straight with you. You haven't said "no."

 

You've offered reasons for debate. It's like telling a 4 year old "no jumping on the couch because you'll get hurt". The 4 year old then, inevitably, removes the problem by saying "No, I won't."

 

The truth is you've been passive/aggressive ((((more hugs)))). You have not said "No, this will not work for us now, and we will not rent to you."

 

Instead, you've given reasons, they've countered those reasons. You are frustrated because you really *want to have* said "no" but that's not how it's playing out.

 

If you want to say NO, say NO.

[PrairieSong]

{{gentle hugs}} Because I am about to be straight with you. You haven't said "no."

 

You've offered reasons for debate. It's like telling a 4 year old "no jumping on the couch because you'll get hurt". The 4 year old then, inevitably, removes the problem by saying "No, I won't."

 

The truth is you've been passive/aggressive ((((more hugs)))). You have not said "No, this will not work for us now, and we will not rent to you."

 

Instead, you've given reasons, they've countered those reasons. You are frustrated because you really *want to have* said "no" but that's not how it's playing out.

 

If you want to say NO, say NO.

 

 

Thanks, Joanne! You are right. When she first called I was not expecting it and unprepared. We have allowed pets in some cases in the past, with a pet deposit and slightly higher rent. So I didn't say "absolutely no dogs" in the first conversation because that has not been our policy for everyone. When I told her what the rent was (after she had just told me how much they wanted to pay) I figured that would be the end of it.

 

Anyway, we have never rented to anyone we knew before. It has not come up. I think I will talk to dh about making a "we don't rent to family or friends" policy. That is the thing that concerns me the most. It would be a good policy.

 

Passive/aggressive, eh? Wow. I didn't even think of that. I have a brother who is that way to an extreme. I saw a show about that years ago and practically jumped off the couch shouting, "THAT'S HIM! THAT IS WHAT HE DOES!"

[Danestress]

No. Just no. You don't have to live it as a truth that someone 'won't take no for an answer.". They will take it if that is the only answer offered, and it is offered unapologetically,

[WTMCassandra]

I respect Joanne completely, but I'm not sure I would go so far as to say you have been passive-aggressive.

 

You have offered reasons you hoped would discourage, hoping to cause the friend-of-a-friend to self-select out of renting your place, but your "friend" is mowing right over them. So I do agree that you have not yet said an actual, "No."

 

Questionable renters? A probable no.

A dog where your DH does not want a dog? A no.

But, on top of all this, a boundary-crasher, at this early stage of the negotiations? H#$$ No!!!

 

Keep in mind, when they want you to agree, they are as nice as they are going to get. It's going to be all downhill from there. With the three factors above I listed in combination, I think you should RUN AWAY.

 

I agree with the other posters that it is time for a clear, firm, and direct, "NO."

[PrairieSong]

nm

[Kari C in SC]

We have a firm rule that we don't rent to friends or family. We state it very clearly A LOT! Do not feel bad. We treat our rental properties as a business. You can run your own tenant screening online for about $30 a person. Just google tenant screening. I can't remember the name of the one we use right now. It's on my laptop and I'm not there at the moment.

[PrairieSong]

We have a firm rule that we don't rent to friends or family. We state it very clearly A LOT! Do not feel bad. We treat our rental properties as a business. You can run your own tenant screening online for about $30 a person. Just google tenant screening. I can't remember the name of the one we use right now. It's on my laptop and I'm not there at the moment.

 

Thank you for that info, Kari! That is what we pay now, to a company, but doing it ourselves would be simpler and quicker.

[mumto2]

Just wanted to say our worst tenants ever were friends of friends. Absolute nightmare. We sold all of our rental property because of these people. I want to add they said they had no problems with the amount we were asking (but their checks bounced so....) and appeared to meet our criteria. They knew where we lived, pounded on the door at all hours because they kept locking themselves out. Dh worked late so they were my problem.

[PrairieSong]

I am planning to call and tell her no, because after talking to dh, we have decided not to rent to people we know. Also the dog thing. This has the potential to be a sticky situation.

[Cera]

There also may be occupancy limits that would prevent you from renting to them. Most septic systems are based on 2 people per bedroom for example.

[Remudamom]

I had to say no to a woman who told me her house had just burned down and she said she had no where to go. I knew as far as I could know that she would not pay rent. It's rough.

[PrairieSong]

There also may be occupancy limits that would prevent you from renting to them. Most septic systems are based on 2 people per bedroom for example.

 

No, it isn't in the law in our state. I even called my friend who is a retired expert in the field...managed/owned property for decades and had an eviction service, so knows the landlord/tenant laws of our state very well. He said we could rent a one-room house to a family of 15 and it wouldn't be illegal solely by reason of the number of occupants. Seems weird, but it's just not in our law.

[PrairieSong]

I had to say no to a woman who told me her house had just burned down and she said she had no where to go. I knew as far as I could know that she would not pay rent. It's rough.

 

That would be hard! I would want to help but our rentals are a business. We have mortgages, taxes, etc., to pay. I would direct those kinds of people (and have) to agencies that can help.

[WTMCassandra]

I am planning to call and tell her no, because after talking to dh, we have decided not to rent to people we know. Hard and fast rule. She could argue out of (or get rid of) a dog, but she can't undo the fact that she is the friend of a friend.

 

Good, but I would caution you not to offer any kind of reason/"because."

 

We already know the "friend" is a boundary crasher. Given that she has taken previous statements as an excuse to argue with you/try to shoot them down, you would be giving her more ammo to guilt you/argue with you.

 

I think you should say only, "We have discussed it, and the answer is NO." Rinse. Repeat. Broken record.

 

To anguished cries of "Why???" and attempts to argue (because I strongly believe there will be quite a few!), I recommend you answer, "The answer is No, and it is final. Thanks, and have a great day. Goodbye." And hang up. Really. Because otherwise she will keep you on the phone half the day trying this and that guilt trip. Don't let yourself be sucked in further.

[Catwoman]

Can you have your dh call the woman? You have already been a bit wishy-washy with her, so she will keep trying to wear you down. Let your dh play Bad Cop and just say no. It may be a lot easier for him to deal with her, because he hasn't been dealing with her the way you have. If she starts to argue with him, he can simply say, "I'm sorry, but our decision is final. I hope you're able to find a new home soon," and get off the phone.

 

Obviously, I don't mean that this is "man's work" or that you couldn't do exactly the same thing, but I'm just thinking that a second person (your dh) might be more immediately effective. If he had been the one who had already been talking to the woman, I would have suggested that you take over and be the Bad Cop.

[Catwoman]

We already know the "friend" is a boundary crasher. Given that she has taken previous statements as an excuse to argue with you/try to shoot them down, you would be giving her more ammo to guilt you/argue with you.

 

 

:iagree:

 

And really, if she's this pushy before she even has the apartment, she would be a nightmare tenant!!! People are on their best behavior when they're trying to get you to rent to them, and if this is her "best behavior," I would be very concerned about what she would be like when there was any little problem with the apartment. :scared:

[crazyforlatin]

Did they submit an application and credit scores?

 

It's odd that friends, even friends of friends, think they can move in without any documentation. Just had to counsel someone to treat rental properties as a business, not as charities, unless you have some savings put aside to deal with landlord-tenant issues.

 

You're already played the good cop. It's time to have someone else call this friend of the friend. You could have DH call or hire a property manager.

[PrairieSong]

Can you have your dh call the woman? You have already been a bit wishy-washy with her, so she will keep trying to wear you down. Let your dh play Bad Cop and just say no. It may be a lot easier for him to deal with her, because he hasn't been dealing with her the way you have. If she starts to argue with him, he can simply say, "I'm sorry, but our decision is final. I hope you're able to find a new home soon," and get off the phone.

 

Obviously, I don't mean that this is "man's work" or that you couldn't do exactly the same thing, but I'm just thinking that a second person (your dh) might be more immediately effective. If he had been the one who had already been talking to the woman, I would have suggested that you take over and be the Bad Cop.

 

 

I get what you are saying. However, I will likely be the one to handle it. I will be fine.

 

[PrairieSong]

Did they submit an application and credit scores?

 

It's odd that friends, even friends of friends, think they can move in without any documentation. Just had to counsel someone to treat rental properties as a business, not as charities, unless you have some savings put aside to deal with landlord-tenant issues.

 

You're already played the good cop. It's time to have someone else call this friend of the friend. You could have DH call or hire a property manager.

 

 

No, they only drove past the property and would like to see the inside. We always take applications and do not sign leases on the spot, ever. We would be doing credit and background checks first, looking at income, calling past landlords, employers, that sort of thing.

[Jennifer3141]

From the outside looking in, this sounds like a disaster. I would just say there are no pets allowed and leave it at that.

[PrairieSong]

I was pressured once to rent to a church member who I had legitimate reasons to reject as a renter (as you do). It did not end well - for anyone.

 

 

I'm sorry that happened to you. We have gone through some situations as landlords that were...uh...not pretty. So much better to nip it in the bud!

[Myeightkiddies]

I agree with so much that has been said. Your gut is telling you no. Follow your gut. While you may not win brownie points immediately with your friend, at least the friendship will remain intact. If you should have to evict that person from your rental for any reason, the friendship may not survive. I'm not a fan of the "won't take no for an answer". It's rude and aggressive (and selfish), and for me, a sign that I don't want to deal with that person. My instinct is telling me to encourage you to say no.

 

Years ago I did rent to a person in a similar situation (like family basically). It was a disaster. Not only did they not pay the rent on time if at all, they left the place a wreck. We did all the favors, made all the exceptions, and even discounted the rent at a loss for us. They did nothing but take advantage and trash the place, which cost us even more.

 

I hope everything works out for you. It's a sticky situation. :grouphug:

[NotSoObvious]

I'm sorry. This is one of the reasons we have a property manager. I am not good at saying no! I would just say you don't allow dogs, then tell her it has been rented.

[PrairieSong]

I talked to her just now. I told her my husband said absolutely no dogs, and in fact he has already turned down some inquirers who had pets. She was nice about it but did say, "For some reason I thought this was a done deal." I know they are really wanting to move before the new baby comes. She wanted to believe it was a done deal. I told her about the other duplexes on the same street that have for rent signs in the yard and also suggested she call local realtors. She asked me to pray that they find something. I said I would.

[NotSoObvious]

Wow!!! She sounds incredibly manipulative! You dodged a bullet!

[Catwoman]

I'm glad to hear you were able to resolve it amicably with the woman. She's probably not exactly a happy camper, but at least she accepted your decision.

 

You must be relieved to be done with it!

[PrairieSong]

Wow!!! She sounds incredibly manipulative! You dodged a bullet!

 

Really it wasn't like that. She sounded more disappointed than anything. She was not pushy and didn't try to persuade me. They have have been looking for a while and she is feeling stressed. I do hope they find a place that works for them.

[WTMCassandra]

I talked to her just now. I told her my husband said absolutely no dogs, and in fact he has already turned down some inquirers who had pets. She was nice about it but did say, "For some reason I thought this was a done deal." I know they are really wanting to move before the new baby comes in July. She wanted to believe it was a done deal. I told her about the other duplexes on the same street that have for rent signs in the yard and also suggested she call local realtors. She asked me to pray that they find something. I said I would and that was that.

 

Wow, I can't imagine how she could have thought "it was a done deal." Shaking my head. At least she heard and accepted your "No." Good job staying firm!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Really it wasn't like that. She sounded more disappointed than anything. She was not pushy and didn't try to persuade me. I have an inkling that they would not be the type of family to take good care of things. Grandma herself is around 60 but not in good health, can't get around very well. Her daughter is supposed to be on bed rest but can't be, really, with three young kids and her mom unable to help much. They have a lot of stress right now. I do hope they find a place that works for them.

 

This was the "friend of a friend" that you talked to, right? I'm thinking that the friend might have been presumptuous and made promises on your behalf that they weren't entitled to make. So the friend of a friend thought it was a done deal, not because of anything you said, but because of what your mutual friend said.

[PrairieSong]

 

 

This was the "friend of a friend" that you talked to, right? I'm thinking that the friend might have been presumptuous and made promises on your behalf that they weren't entitled to make. So the friend of a friend thought it was a done deal, not because of anything you said, but because of what your mutual friend said.

 

No, I know she (my friend) didn't make any promises. She didn't even know if we had anything currently available. She just knows we have rental property and suggested that her friend call us. I think the friend thought it was a "done deal" because that is what she was telling herself. I could hear it in her voice when she talked to me, trying to justify that they could afford the higher rent and that the dog was not a problem. It was like she was trying to convince herself as well as convince me, because she wanted so much to find a nice new place for them to live. She was weary of looking and not finding anything.

 

Anyway, I am glad it is over and that it was relatively painless.

[gardenmom5]

:grouphug:

 

do we have a smilie that can prop you up to treating them like any other potential renter? (and no dogs means no dogs. how "nice" the dog is is irrelevant. "nice" dogs can still take children's shoes and run off with them while chewing them to shreds and thinking it's fun. and the dog sitter will continue to explain what a "nice" (to them = well-behaved) dog it is. (not))

[TranquilMind]

A very good friend of one of my good friends (I have met her) is living with her daughter. Another daughter, son-in-law, their three young kids, plus a baby due in July, are also living there. Some of them stay in the basement which has mold. Grandma and the daughter, SIL, and grandkids are looking for their own place and my friend told her to call me.

 

We have a duplex becoming available but it is about $200 above what they wanted to spend, though they say they can afford it. They have a dog, which we occasionally allow but dh said he does not want a dog in this duplex. It is a nice place, about 12 years old.

 

I told her dh said he doesn't want a dog in there, and she proceeded to explain how nice this dog is...doesn't growl at people, doesn't make messes or chew, etc. I told her the rent is higher than they wanted, but she said nothing is available for less unless they want to live in a really bad neighborhood.

 

I know what I need to do, so I'm not asking for advice (though I am open to it). You can feel free to commiserate though! It would be easier to say NO if she were a stranger.

 

 

I've been a landlord for over a decade. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever rent to friends or family. Every experienced landlord will tell you this. You want strangers only, who are well-screened.

 

Also, you don't take pets (right?)