Marriage fail poll

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I answered 100% because I only know of one. The first couple was married many years and had three kids. He cheated and has now been married longer to his second wife than to his first (and they had more kids together).

 

This is true of one couple I know. I know another couple who were married longer than their first marriages after their affair, but they didn't have more kids. I know only one couple whose marriage was ended because of an affair where the new relationship didn't last.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I answered 100% because I only know of one. The first couple was married many years and had three kids. He cheated and has now been married longer to his second wife than to his first (and they had more kids together).

 

This is true of one couple I know. I know another couple who were married longer than their first marriages after their affair, but they didn't have more kids. I know only one couple whose marriage was ended because of an affair where the new relationship didn't last.

[Tita Gidge]

I know of four marriages that ended after adultery was discovered.

 

Three rushed into new marriages within six months of their divorces. Two divorced at five years, the third is still married at seven years (but it's rocky and the husband has confided that they stay together mostly because it's not "awful" and neither wants the stigma of a second failed marriage. It's just not the rock star relationship they thought it was going to be.)

 

The fourth remarried about four years after his divorce. They're still together and will celebrate 15 years together next month.

 

I think rebound marriages can work if both people know going in that it's what it is. Arranged marriages aren't uncommon in my community, so I'm a believer that marriages can succeed if all parties recognize the marriage for what it is (and what it isn't).

 

I think rebound marriages go awry when one or both parties don't recognize or acknowledge the marriage for what it is. This would be the case for the first three marriages I mentioned, with the possible exception of the third still-married couple who is coming to realize their marriage for what it ... was.

[Scarlett]

I know of four marriages that ended after adultery was discovered.

 

Three rushed into new marriages within six months of their divorces. Two divorced at five years, the third is still married at seven years (but it's rocky and the husband has confided that they stay together mostly because it's not "awful" and neither wants the stigma of a second failed marriage. It's just not the rock star relationship they thought it was going to be.)

 

The fourth remarried about four years after his divorce. They're still together and will celebrate 15 years together next month.

 

I think rebound marriages can work if both people know going in that it's what it is. Arranged marriages aren't uncommon in my community, so I'm a believer that marriages can succeed if all parties recognize the marriage for what it is (and what it isn't).

 

I think rebound marriages go awry when one or both parties don't recognize or acknowledge the marriage for what it is. This would be the case for the first three marriages I mentioned, with the possible exception of the third still-married couple who is coming to realize their marriage for what it ... was.

 

Did you understand that my question was about relationships that begin in adultery?

[Lisa in Jax]

I can only think of one relationship (of people I know well) in which I know there was adultery. The marriage ended within a year of the confession/discovery. Hope it helps.

[8circles]

I know... gosh only a handful of people whose marriages ended in divorce. The only ones I know well - their marriage ended because of severe mental illness. (I know more people who have been divorced, but I didn't know them when they were married.) None of their marriages had an affair that I know of.

[Tita Gidge]

Did you understand that my question was about relationships that begin in adultery?

 

 

Yes.

 

In the four marriages I mentioned, all had begun their relationships as affairs.

 

Three went on to immediately marry the person they had been having an affair with.

 

The fourth did not rush into marrying the person he had the affair with. He eventually married her, but knew that a post-divorce relationship would differ from the adulturous relationship they shared when they were both married to other people. Ironically, I think he had some trust issues he had to work out before he'd marry her; he worried she'd cheat on him, too, eventually.

 

We were part of an ex-pat community where these things were sadly common. In all four cases, the affairs involved an ex-pat and a local. In the fourth and only surviving relationship, once they married they left the ex-pat life and returned to his home in the US.

[Sisyphus]

I know two couples whose marriage ended from adultery, and in both cases the adulterous relationship didn't last. In one, the wife had an affair, left, married the guy, cheated on him, second divorce, lives with affair guy number 2. Very sad for the children, who keep getting new siblings and stepparents and then losing them- a mess. In the other, the husband cheated, married the mistress, she cheated, second divorce, don't know what happened to her but he is single and regrets the whole thing. His first wife is happily remarried and glad to be shut of him.

 

I'm frankly surprised so many affairs go on to happy relationships as evidenced by this thread! I wouldn't expect that, as the experiences I've seen the inability to be faithful doesn't just go away, it affects the new relationships, too. But maybe because that's all I've witnessed?

[Jennifer3141]

No, no! She's not having a dig at you. Just being funny. How could anything ever be wrong in our sun-shiny world Down Under? It is Australia Day after all!

 

 

 

Absolutely!! I adore Australia. And Australians. It seemed to this tourist that every single one of you was just tickled pink by life. I don't think I met one grump there in three weeks. :laugh:

[Cassy]

Thinking more on this ... I know of two men whose first marriages ended, one as a result of an affair, the other due to the stresses of infertility. Both said afterwards that had they known beforehand what absolute torture the process of divorce was, then they'd never have done it. So, I'm wondering whether a lot of these second marriages succeed because at least one partner fully appreciates the awful cost of divorce and does everything within their power to avoid it a second time.

[BigMamaBird]

I know of three relationships where a partner cheated on the family and in every case it ended in divorce. In only one of the three cases are the cheater and his partner still together.

[TravelingChris]

I don't understand the poll, but I haven't read all the answers yet, just the first 50. I haven't voted either. I hardly know or have known any people who divorced while I knew them. I have met people who are divorced or divorced and remarried but most of those are remarried and for a very long time and I don't normally find out why they were divorced previously. The three people I have know who divorced due to infidelity, in two of the cases the infidel spouse was the wife and she left the husband to be with her lover, and in the other case, the wife found out through a gynecological exam and forthwithly divorced or annulled the marriage (they were married only a matter of months). In none of the three situations did the affairs go on for more than two years in the marriage. Now I do know someone who married a man who was unfaithful to her in the past, before marriage. They have stayed married for over 25 years but whether she knows it or not, I think it is probable that he was unfaithful again during this marriage. But I don't live in the same town, since it was someone I was friends with in college, and I have no personal knowledge of any bad behavior, just my guess based on the previous actions of the husband. Oh and I have only known three other people who divorced during the time I knew them and in none of those cases was infidelity a factor.

 

I simply don't hardly know people who divorce. It isn't common in the areas where I live. ANd again, the people I normally meet who had been divorced have now been successfully married for twenty years or more and I am not going to ask about previous marriages.

[joannqn]

I only know of one marriage that started as an affair. It ended with him dead and her in prison.

[kalanamak]

I only know of one marriage that started as an affair. It ended with him dead and her in prison.

 

Fortunately, this is not typical.

[TravelingChris]

Okay, now I understand. Well, because of my board name, and since the two cheaters I knew were very casual acquaintances, and the third I never knew, just his victim, I have no idea whether any marriage or relationship lasted.

 

In terms of innocent victims of infidelity- all three I knew were that. In one case, a young woman, not experienced, marries a slightly older boy who lies and within a few months, she has a permanent gynecological problem and then finds out that he is having relations with pretty much any female available. THe marriage ends right there. Now maybe she wasn't too smart but how does that make her culpable for his despicable behavior? Then there was the married couple with two youngish kids (one was about 7 and the other about 4). Wife decides to have an affair with a guy more than ten years her junior, and leaves her husband and the kids. Again, innocent victims. Third case, a married guy has an injury where he is wheelchair bound for a few months and his wife decides, too bad, lets have an affair and dump him. This third woman I think maybe had bipolar disease from the way she acted both before and later but the spouse was an innocent victim again.

[TravelingChris]

Oh and all these people are from years ago and I don't remember names of the two cheaters so there is zero way for me to figure out if there subsequent marriages or relationships lasted.

[runbikeswim]

I only know of one marriage that started as an affair. It ended with him dead and her in prison.

 

 

I'm sorry but that sounds like a Garth Brooks song!

[Scarlett]

 

 

I would not be so familiar with the details of your what I consider to be black and white views of adultery if you only started 2 threads that were on this topic in the less than 18 months I have actively posted here. I am really sorry for all the hurt that your first marriage caused you. No one deserves any of that. I understand that deep wounds don't heal easily or even after something better/happier (like your new marriage) happens.

 

I am not defending cheaters, just saying that it's pretty much always pointless to lay blame and look at the past. All we can do is move onwards and upwards from whatever awful situation we find ourselves in and I don't say this as a naive person who has never been in awful situations that required serious strength and forgiveness in order to move on.

 

 

Well you can do like I did and search my topics...I assure you haven't started any other threads about adultery. I do remember trying to be a source of comfort when others have gone through it and yeah I post a lot details about my life....most of which have nothing to do with my xh.

 

As for your comment about me having black and white thinking about adultery---I do think adultery is wrong and never justified. I can't imagine how a persons mind must work to say it is sometimes ok to commit adultery.

[Joanne]

It takes 2 people to make a decent (or better) marriage.

 

It takes one to ruin one.

 

The "it takess two" is a bunch of BS when it comes to adultery or abuse. No matter how imperfect/human a spouse may be, they do not create the *character* isssues involved in an affair.

 

 

[LucyStoner]

 

 

As for your comment about me having black and white thinking about adultery---I do think adultery is wrong and never justified. I can't imagine how a persons mind must work to say it is sometimes ok to commit adultery.

 

Take my MILs situation. I think that she had a very human and frankly IMO ok reason for falling in love with someone else while still married to an abuser in name only after 25 years. Also, I don't think adultery is the only valid reason for divorce and being able to remarry. That is the black and white view IMO. People should be able to leave abusive situations without shame or guilt even if their abuser is the most sexually faithful person in the world. From reading your thoughts on the matter, it sounds like one who leaves only for abuse shouldn't be able to remarry. If you can't imagine anything more harmful than adultery in a marriage, that is choosing to ignore the violence that touches many people's relationships. If someone is abusing you and sending you to the hospital, you have bigger fish to fry IMO.

[LucyStoner]

It takes 2 people to make a decent (or better) marriage.

 

It takes one to ruin one.

 

The "it takess two" is a bunch of BS when it comes to adultery or abuse. No matter how imperfect/human a spouse may be, they do not create the *character* isssues involved in an affair.

 

I don't disagree with each of these statements when it comes to abuse. That said, many bad marriages do not have abuse or adultery from only 1 person. 1 person can certainly end a marriage but 2 people can absolutely abuse and hurt each other. Or the marriage may be bad without containing any abuse or adultery. Indifference, dislike, serious life changes, the depression or mental health of 1 or both parters etc. Life is usually more nuanced than strictly one sided fault. Sometimes when a marriage ends, there really is no fault. I know one couple, both lovely people, who realized that there were significant difference that made their happiness impossible while together. They divorced. No one abused any one. No one cheated. They both just realized "hey, this is not going to be the best for either of us."

[Scarlett]

 

 

Take my MILs situation. I think that she had a very human and frankly IMO ok reason for falling in love with someone else while still married to an abuser in name only after 25 years. Also, I don't think adultery is the only valid reason for divorce and being able to remarry. That is the black and white view IMO. People should be able to leave abusive situations without shame or guilt even if their abuser is the most sexually faithful person in the world. From reading your thoughts on the matter, it sounds like one who leaves only for abuse shouldn't be able to remarry. If you can't imagine anything more harmful than adultery in a marriage, that is choosing to ignore the violence that touches many people's relationships. If someone is abusing you and sending you to the hospital, you have bigger fish to fry IMO.

 

Human reaction? Certainly. Wrong nonetheless. And I would never tell a person they could not leave an abusive situation regardless of my religious views on remarriage. And there is all sorts of abuse by the way. I provided support to a close friend of mine who left her extremely abusive husband...it was not physical and it was not adultery, but she was in very real mental danger. So I am not near as black and white about life as you think.

 

By the way I don't recall ever saying that there is nothing worse than adultery. What my friend went through is worse IMO, but to some people it might not be.

[Scarlett]

 

 

I don't disagree with each of these statements when it comes to abuse. That said, many bad marriages do not have abuse or adultery from only 1 person. 1 person can certainly end a marriage but 2 people can absolutely abuse and hurt each other. Or the marriage may be bad without containing any abuse or adultery. Indifference, dislike, serious life changes, the depression or mental health of 1 or both parters etc. Life is usually more nuanced than strictly one sided fault.

 

Of course two people can both be abusive and they can both be adulterers. But the fact is, as Joanne said above, it takes to to make a marriage good but only one to destroy it. And if you have a horrible marriage, committing adultery isn't going to make it better.

[LucyStoner]

Human reaction? Certainly. Wrong nonetheless.

 

I prefer to not judge the actions that a person long abused takes to bring themselves happiness without committing a murderous felony as right or wrong. A marriage can end long before there is a legal document stating it has ended. I don' think God needs a legal document.

[Scarlett]

 

I prefer to not judge the actions that a person long abused takes to bring themselves happiness without committing a murderous felony as right or wrong. A marriage can end long before there is a legal document stating it has ended.

 

I have a mentally ill brother. He does and has done all sorts of things that are 'wrong'. Some morally, some legally. I can continue to acknowledge that some things are WRONG without judging his heart---I leave that to God who can read hearts. Wrong is wrong regardless of the human frailities that sometimes lead us to do wrong. And it applies to myself as well. I have done MANY wrong things.....I can give you all sorts of reasons and justifications for how it is that I found myself in that place to do wrong...but it doesn't change the fact that I did something wrong.

 

When we start justifiying bad behaviors it becomes a slippery slope and then it is easier to to do the next wrong thing.

[Scarlett]

I didn't answer because I don't know how to.

 

I will give the anecdotal info, which will also explain why I didn't know how to answer.

 

I've known specifically of three marriages where adultery was an issue for a couple with children at home. Two of the marriages survived, one did not, but neither did the cheating couple. The cheater was begging his wife to come back within 3 months. She did not.

 

But here is the part that made it so I could not answer: I know of more than a couple of long marriages--kids grown and gone--that ended with the stated cause being adultery. I am thinking of at least four situations here, a couple of which were in my parents' generation. The cheating couples are still married, 20-30+ years later.

 

Interesting.

 

That is the sort of thing that I hearing a lot of. Like Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward. So to use the 4 examples you know of where adultery ended a marriage....3 of the 4 stayed together more than 2 years. That is 75%!

[LucyStoner]

 

 

When we start justifiying bad behaviors it becomes a slippery slope and then it is easier to to do the next wrong thing.

 

A slippery slope is a slippery slope. Seeing the whole issue in context and and recognizing that circumstances do change life choices is not a slide to "the next wrong thing." I suppose I would have to see it as wrong to fear that it would lead to a different wrong. I simply reject out of hand the idea that a man who abuses his family for decades has a reasonable claim to feel wronged by his wife when she finally moves on with someone else, regardless of when the legal documents are finished.

[Scarlett]

 

 

A slippery slope is a slippery slope. Seeing the whole issue in context and and recognizing that circumstances do change life choices is not a slide to "the next wrong thing." I suppose I would have to see it as wrong to fear that it would lead to a different wrong. I simply reject out of hand the idea that a man who abuses his family for decades has a reasonable claim to feel wronged by his wife when she finally moves on with someone else, regardless of when the legal documents are finished.

 

Yes it is clear that we see it differently . Btw, my concern is not so much for the abusive man in the situation you described...but the wife. If I were in her shoes ( and I believe I have been) I would not want to harm my own conscience or my relationship with my God.

[Scarlett]

Wow this has veered so far from my intent! But I am thinking about how we can have compassion for people who do wrong in very trying circumstances without condoning the wrong. My brother springs to mind. When he was married to his first wife they fought like crazy. One of his biggest complaints was that she refused sex. Every...hardly ever. Once every few months. Well they were separated and he got a girlfriend. And then he filed for divorce and immediately married her. Did I feel for him? Yes....he was sex starved and affection starved and he thought he was 'moving on'. But I absolutely think what he did was wrong. And told him so at the time. He destroyed his kids FOO...he destroyed any chance of someday working his marriage out. He has paid a huge price for acting on selfish wants instead of doing what was right.

 

I do think I come across as having no compassion for human weakness. I do feel it...very much so. I even feel,it for those who have wronged me.

[LucyStoner]

Yes it is clear that we see it differently . Btw, my concern is not so much for the abusive man in the situation you described...but the wife. If I were in her shoes ( and I believe I have been) I would not want to harm my own conscience or my relationship with my God.

 

I get that and support your right to apply that moral code to your life but it is a big, enormous leap to assume that another person should/would/does share your religious beliefs or have any sense of obligation to follow a moral code that comes from any particular religion. People vow not to commit adultery when they marry (by and large, though vows do vary) but they also vow not to leave until death do us part (with no specific exemption to that vow even for adultery) yet most everyone, including both of us, admits that there are some very valid reasons to obtain a divorce.

 

It's not harming someone's conscience or their relationship with God if they have a different moral code, that allows for relative wrongs and rights. Classic example. It's wrong to kill someone. But it is not wrong to kill someone who is about to kill your child. There are circumstances that alter what is right and wrong.

[LucyStoner]

Wow this has veered so far from my intent!

 

 

Something we can completely agree on! :laugh:

 

I am sorry for making your thread run around in circles. I apparently really have too much free time today.

[Scarlett]

 

 

Something we can completely agree on! :laugh:

 

I am sorry for making your thread run around in circles. I apparently really have too much free time today.

 

Well me too---not! I have actually been working very hard. Dh put up a bunch of base moulding in my living room, around door, around fireplace, but then he had to leave and go to a volunteer meeting. So I cleaned up for him. My parents are due to arrive for overnight visit in 2 hours so I am also changing sheets, cleaning bathrooms etc.

 

 

[Scarlett]

 

I guess the thing that stood out more to me was that the ages of the people involved seem to make some sort of difference.

 

The young cheaters didn't last.

The old cheaters did.

 

Also that the young cheaters who had marriages with kids at home, a couple of those marriages survived the adultery, at least for as far as they have survived.

 

But I don't have vast experience in this. It was just something that made me say, "Hmmm."

 

Ah. I see your point now. Most of the relationships that began in adultery that I counted have lasted less than 5 years. One has lasted 15 years or more. And he was a HUGE cheater.

 

I think maybe in the older generation they saw a second marriage as a fail even if it was a second chance for them too. These days it is all so easy to just move on. No stigma at all.

[Scarlett]

 

 

I get that and support your right to apply that moral code to your life but it is a big, enormous leap to assume that another person should/would/does share your religious beliefs or have any sense of obligation to follow a moral code that comes from any particular religion. People vow not to commit adultery when they marry (by and large, though vows do vary) but they also vow not to leave until death do us part (with no specific exemption to that vow even for adultery) yet most everyone, including both of us, admits that there are some very valid reasons to obtain a divorce.

 

It's not harming someone's conscience or their relationship with God if they have a different moral code, that allows for relative wrongs and rights. Classic example. It's wrong to kill someone. But it is not wrong to kill someone who is about to kill your child. There are circumstances that alter what is right and wrong.

 

 

Ok, but I DO have that moral code so I will always say I think adultery is wrong. You don't have to commit adultery to get out of a bad marriage.

[JenC3]

I know three marriages that have survived affairs. One has been married for 12yrs, 14, and the other 17. Two of them happened before kids, one spouse was told, the other still is in the dark, I think. One happened mid-marriage with kids:(

 

Two of these were women who cheated and one was the man. Lots of other failed marriages, too many to list:(

[beaners]

I guess the thing that stood out more to me was that the ages of the people involved seem to make some sort of difference. The young cheaters didn't last. The old cheaters did. Also that the young cheaters who had marriages with kids at home, a couple of those marriages survived the adultery, at least for as far as they have survived. But I don't have vast experience in this. It was just something that made me say, "Hmmm."

 

I was thinking that it might be that when these people got older and their kids were gone, they focused more on what they wanted from life and not so much on what they had vowed. Sort of the mid-life crisis thing.

 

My experience with this particular scenario has been that some couples marry young (specifically young and immature) and then their values or goals change direction. At that point, one person in that marriage meets someone who is looking for the same things that one spouse, but not the other, desires. The marriage ends, the couple having the affair becomes official, and they are more likely to stick together because they are on the same wavelength.

 

What I've seen is an admittedly small sample, but that's my evaluation of what I've seen.

[Joanne]

I don't disagree with each of these statements when it comes to abuse. That said, many bad marriages do not have abuse or adultery from only 1 person. 1 person can certainly end a marriage but 2 people can absolutely abuse and hurt each other. Or the marriage may be bad without containing any abuse or adultery. Indifference, dislike, serious life changes, the depression or mental health of 1 or both parters etc. Life is usually more nuanced than strictly one sided fault. Sometimes when a marriage ends, there really is no fault. I know one couple, both lovely people, who realized that there were significant difference that made their happiness impossible while together. They divorced. No one abused any one. No one cheated. They both just realized "hey, this is not going to be the best for either of us."

 

 

 

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Upthread, there was quite a bit of noise about steak vs. burger. I personally believe that having an affair is a character issue. The behavior of the other spouse never justifies an affair. Not nagging, not witholding sex, not becoming unattractive...........

 

Telling a victim of an affair to "look at their part" and "work harder" and "see where you might be at fault" is twisted.

 

Now, if the couple decides to try to make the marriage work, BOTH parties have to work together and independently on their issues, but only after the affair has been dealt with and processed.

[jujsky]

My dad cheated on my mom, my BFF's hubby cheated on her. In both cases the relationships didn't last more than 2 years. BFF's new hubby's ex cheated on him, and her relationship did last a few years, but they've since ended things.

[katilac]

I didn't take the poll or read the other responses. I don't think you will get any meaningful information, because I would think that most of the marriages that DO last after an affair are the ones where the couple handles it on their own (ie, no one ever knows, not even close family).

[beaners]

I didn't take the poll or read the other responses. I don't think you will get any meaningful information, because I would think that most of the marriages that DO last after an affair are the ones where the couple handles it on their own (ie, no one ever knows, not even close family).

 

I don't think that's the question though. I thought the question was as follows. If you know of a failed marriage (relationship #1) that involved an affair (relationship #2), how many of those relationship #2s lasted more than 2 years after relationship #1 ended? (Or maybe I answered incorrectly?)

[elizabeth]

Clearly. :) I just don't understand it.

 

Some women stay with men who beat them too....I don't get that either.

 

Ouch. Nothing like being blissfully unaware of why women would stay with an abusive spouse. Where to begin? In my law practice, I have learned that all of the following and sometimes more than one of these reasons are the cause of a woman not leaving an abuser: he threatens to keep or harm her children she grew up in an abusive home and has no idea what a good man is nor thinks she is worthy of one, she has no education, never worked outside the home, she has no self esteem, she is afraid of being alone, she is certain no one would ever want her as she is damaged goods...the list is endless. These are the reasons I can post in a public forum being mindful of painful triggers for many, many women here. Please know that whether you meant to or not your words can hurt others.

[Joanne]

Ouch. Nothing like being blissfully unaware of why women would stay with an abusive spouse. Where to begin? In my law practice, I have learned that all of the following and sometimes more than one of these reasons are the cause of a woman not leaving an abuser: he threatens to keep or harm her children she grew up in an abusive home and has no idea what a good man is nor thinks she is worthy of one, she has no education, never worked outside the home, she has no self esteem, she is afraid of being alone, she is certain no one would ever want her as she is damaged goods...the list is endless. These are the reasons I can post in a public forum being mindful of painful triggers for many, many women here. Please know that whether you meant to or not your words can hurt others.

 

 

 

I agree.

 

 

Women stay because the dynamic that develops makes it (often nearly) impossible to leave. In many cases, it is SAFER to stay.

 

It's a complicated, but known and predictable, dynamic.

 

I was not any of the things listed in Elizabeth's response, but by the end of the marriage, I felt and believed I was.

[Jennifer3141]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Upthread, there was quite a bit of noise about steak vs. burger. I personally believe that having an affair is a character issue. The behavior of the other spouse never justifies an affair. Not nagging, not witholding sex, not becoming unattractive...........

 

Telling a victim of an affair to "look at their part" and "work harder" and "see where you might be at fault" is twisted.

 

Now, if the couple decides to try to make the marriage work, BOTH parties have to work together and independently on their issues, but only after the affair has been dealt with and processed.

 

 

I understand that point of view. I think it's just a bit simplistic. And I don't see how or why anyone would cheat on a GOOD marriage. I also think people with good characters can be trapped in bad marriages.

[cajunrose]

I'll have a hard time answering a poll on it, but the one marriage I KNEW of that this happened to wasn't strong to begin with. It should have ended long before the affair happened. My friend cheated on her husband but he was a douch to begin with (doesn't make it right). She did cheat on him...she got caught. They divorced. My friend married the man she cheated with and they are still married now 2 years later.

 

Not sure if that helps you.

[LucyStoner]

 

 

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Upthread, there was quite a bit of noise about steak vs. burger. I personally believe that having an affair is a character issue. The behavior of the other spouse never justifies an affair. Not nagging, not witholding sex, not becoming unattractive...........

 

Telling a victim of an affair to "look at their part" and "work harder" and "see where you might be at fault" is twisted.

 

Now, if the couple decides to try to make the marriage work, BOTH parties have to work together and independently on their issues, but only after the affair has been dealt with and processed.

 

I see what you mean. But I am not saying that the spouse who is cheated on needs to work harder or see their fault. My reaction were to much different posts in the thread about blaming 1 person or another and the whole idea of "innocent" vs. "guilty" spouses. Sometimes it is that simple. But not all that often. I don't think that people can say they were forced to cheat. I think it is really unacceptable to say that cheating is justified because a spouse is unattractive or boring. The whole idea that it is on the spouse who is cheated on to be great enough that the cheating spouse wouldn't feel inclined to cheat is shallow and usually sexist in my mind. But all of that presupposes that there is in fact a marriage. Somethings are so egregious and damaging as to kill/end a marriage before the legal papers are filed. I refuse to consider it adultery if an abused spouse moves on before all the legal ducks are in a row. I refuse to feel that an abuser whose in-name-only spouse sleeps with someone else is a victim of anything but their own carp.

[LucyStoner]

Ouch. Nothing like being blissfully unaware of why women would stay with an abusive spouse. Where to begin? In my law practice, I have learned that all of the following and sometimes more than one of these reasons are the cause of a woman not leaving an abuser: he threatens to keep or harm her children she grew up in an abusive home and has no idea what a good man is nor thinks she is worthy of one, she has no education, never worked outside the home, she has no self esteem, she is afraid of being alone, she is certain no one would ever want her as she is damaged goods...the list is endless. These are the reasons I can post in a public forum being mindful of painful triggers for many, many women here. Please know that whether you meant to or not your words can hurt others.

 

 

 

Totally true. All that said, it is important to remember that even a financially independent, professional woman with a solid education can get emotionally and mentally trapped into staying. It is common to think of DV victims as all those who can't leave due to finances but in reality, a lot of women with the financial wherewithal to leave stay- to avoid the shame of acknowledging the abuse publicly, because they believe that no one will ever love them, because they make a calculated risk about the safety of their life etc. My MIL had a well paying job, her own bank account, her own car etc. I really condemned her (in my mind) for a long time because she stayed even though she "could have left". In time though I realized that the messed up bonds that hold someone together with their abuser and their children's abuser go far beyond finances. I also realized that by thinking critical thoughts about her for staying, I was buying into the cultural pattern of blaming the victim for her abuse.

[Joanne]

I see what you mean. But I am not saying that the spouse who is cheated on needs to work harder or see their fault. My reaction were to much different posts in the thread about blaming 1 person or another and the whole idea of "innocent" vs. "guilty" spouses. Sometimes it is that simple. But not all that often. I don't think that people can say they were forced to cheat. I think it is really unacceptable to say that cheating is justified because a spouse is unattractive or boring. The whole idea that it is on the spouse who is cheated on to be great enough that the cheating spouse wouldn't feel inclined to cheat is shallow and usually sexist in my mind. But all of that presupposes that there is in fact a marriage. Somethings are so egregious and damaging as to kill/end a marriage before the legal papers are filed. I refuse to consider it adultery if an abused spouse moves on before all the legal ducks are in a row. I refuse to feel that an abuser whose in-name-only spouse sleeps with someone else is a victim of anything but their own carp.

 

 

Hey, I agree with the above completely.

 

I lived a dead marriage that survived on paper only (didn't cheat, but wasn't married IMO). I dated before the paper was final, and don't feel that was cheating at all.

 

I'll add another grey area. You are paper-married to someone who has had a medical event so profound that they are not the same person in ways that are an issue. For example, a medical issue that regresses maturity and development.

[EmilyK]

I have never understood this line of reasoning. Affairs certainly end marriages---whether they were good or bad in the eyes of either spouse is beside the point. It is a devastating way to handle unhappiness.

 

 

Mrs. Mungo's point is what I think too and so I'm having a hard time answering your poll. Here's what I have seen in my experience with close friends:

-- 3 marriages where the husband had what I would call a mid life crisis, where he chafed at a "boring" life revolving around work and kids, felt his wife was too wrapped up in the kids and domestic duties, wished that they had as much fun together (trips, nights out together) as before the kids arrived. Actually, I've known more with this issue, but 3 where I know the husband also had an affair. In those 3 cases, he moved out, and started to regret what he did. They started counseling, got back together after months or years, and seem to have strong marriages now.

-- One friend was working closely with a married man and they realized they were in love with each other. They didn't want to cheat and so they immediately told their spouses, separated and started divorce proceedings before they even kissed. They are still together over a decade late.

-- Several friends have had marriages end because of general dissatisfaction on one or both parts. Sometimes as a part of that, it seems like particularly men need to find someone else before they are motivated to move out or being divorce proceedings if they are already separated. But none of those marriages seemed to end because of an affair, and I don't think the cheated on spouse has described it to me that way. It was already quite unhappy.

-- I did have one friend who was married to a guy I had misgivings about from the beginning. She sort of knew he wasn't a good egg, but really wanted to have a child. When she was pregnant, he started an affair. He is still married to that woman and the three of them are sort of friends, but he's still a total jerk.

-- I did know one marriage where I think the husband has mental health issues -- like a series of mid life crises on steroids. He has ended his marriages with affairs but it seems to be a part of his unstable personality.

 

So I don't know any wonderful people for whom an affair has ended an otherwise good marriage, other than that couple who I think truly found the person they wanted to be with permanently, and tried to end things as honorably as they could. I guess I know another marriage that ended that way before kids, some high school sweethearts who married and probably shouldn't have. But they were already separated before one fell in love with someone else.

[elizabeth]

Hey, I agree with the above completely.

 

I lived a dead marriage that survived on paper only (didn't cheat, but wasn't married IMO). I dated before the paper was final, and don't feel that was cheating at all.

 

I'll add another grey area. You are paper-married to someone who has had a medical event so profound that they are not the same person in ways that are an issue. For example, a medical issue that regresses maturity and development.

And this circumstance is one in which there are no pat answers, no solutions that do not hurt some or all of the parties involved. I think the phrase dead marriage describes perfectly the conditions that are all too familiar to many people who would otherwise say that they would never commit adultery. It is also illustrative in pointing out that there are many ways in which one spouse can betray another without ever "cheating" but is a betrayal and soul wound that takes far longer to heal.

[Tap]

 

.......

 

I don't know anyone who has ever cheated in a good, strong marriage. I know weak marriages where the affair provided a safe out.

.......

 

Actually one of by best friends did. She will flat out tell you that her husband was amazing. She says that was part of 'her' problem. She was bored. He worshiped the ground she walked on. Fabulous father, attentive husband, funny, handsome, articulate, educated. They were together since they were teens and she had only been with the one man.

 

She says that she had 'boundary' issues and that it was 100% her. She feels that she gets too close to people and doesn't create proper boudaries, thus when someone started showing her attention...she didn't stop it when she should have.