nm

[laundrycrisis]

You are grieving. BTDT. Give yourself time. [Hugs]

 

Yes. It is real grieving.

 

On the postive side, you are more aware now, and you have a chance to give your own children a different experience of family, and different expectations of what their relationships to each other and to you can be when they are adults.

[MomatHWTK]

Small update. As expected, my "I don't have a well-running vehicle to use for the trip and cannot afford a rental" is being met with "Borrow a car from a relative" and "We'll see about paying for the rental". And I'm being asked about gift ideas for DH suddenly. Trying to sweeten the pot, I guess. The vehicle issue is being ignored now.

 

DH called a bit ago. Brought something up that I hadn't thought about and now can't not think about. DS5 has an anaphylactic response to cashews. He has an Epi-Pen for emergencies. DH is concerned that if they are willing to "trick" us with the vegan menu, that the cashew allergy may be a problem, too. And it might. My family has treated the news about the cashew allergy as if it were some overreaction on my part for some reason. So. *sigh* I guess there's that to consider now, too.

 

And back I go to trying to find a happy place.

 

 

That's the deal breaker for me. Years ago, I had reactions to aspertame- throat swelling, itchy, headache... I had a relative who didn't believe I reacted to aspertame so she would make diet desserts and not tell me. Then my throat would swell and we'd ask her what she'd fed us! It took me a long time to accept that she has matured and wouldn't intentionally "test" DS' allergies. But she had to do a lot of work to convince me that she would be diet compliant!

 

Just say no. Tell them that you are genuinely concerned about the van but the truth is that you don't feel like you can trust them and there needs to be some healing of the relationship before you're willing to risk a large family gathering with food.

[AndyJoy]

Sometimes, you just can't be the entire center of the universe. Sometimes, you have to go out of your way for those older relatives and just put up with their weirdness, because that is what you do for family. So long as they are not abusing your children or trying to shoot you or something, yeah, you can suck it up for a few hours on Christmas to see those older relatives who won't be around too long.

 

Nobody said you had to do it every week. Bringing your own food is kind of a small price to pay.

 

I can stop saying it and just bow out, but there will just be someone else who sees this who will probably say it. And remember, I won't always be around either. ;)

 

I've been thinking about that poster upthread who said she and her husband play "Bingo" and are kind of eagerly awaiting the expected words and phrases to come out of their mouths so they can "win" the private game they are playing. This is just such a great idea, and has wide application, the more I think of it.

 

If I had a "friend" who made fun of my heartfelt gifts, lied/sabotaged my food, and showed a general disdain/lack of concern for my family's financial situation and family schedule/plans, I hope I'd come to my senses and not consider this person a friend. I wouldn't be celebrating holidays with this person on their terms. Why does family get a pass?

 

You talk about respecting family, but how is mocking them with "Bingo" ok, but shielding your kids from some of their obnoxiousness isn't? Personally, I find the idea amusing, but I don't see how it qualifies as honoring anyone. How about limiting contact instead so you don't have to vent so much by making fun of them?

 

I don't think blood is sacred. I have a very rude, obnoxious grandfather (who can't blame it on age since he's been this way my whole life), and I do "suck it up" and spend time with him. But I pick and choose various situations that I think will go better with him to limit stress for all. I have another set of relatives who want to visit on their terms which conflict with our family for several reasons, but DH and I won't stand for it. They don't get to run our world. We certainly don't consider ourselves the center of the universe--but we know they aren't either and refuse to treat them like they are! We hold them accountable to be adults and treat us respectfully. This might be one of those situations for the OP where she opts out and finds another better time to visit her family on terms that are more agreeable for her immediate family.

[Murphy101]

I wouldn't go.

 

This has nothing to do with supporting and accepting family even when they don't do what you want.

 

Your family can believe and do whatever they want.

 

And you can love them all the same.

 

Without being their punching bag.

 

Need a kidney? Call me.

Want to take recipes or whatever? Call me.

 

Want to treat make us miserable?

 

No thanks. Have fun without us.

[Catwoman]

It's OK to grieve.

 

It's actually a good thing in this case, because it demonstrates that you're seeing the family as they really are, and are refusing to allow yourself to be treated poorly by them.

 

It's great when you have a wonderful family, but if you don't, there's no benefit in trying to pretend that you do, or in believing that if you manage to be just a little sweeter and a bit more perfect, that somehow all will be well, and everyone will suddenly change their ways and be the family of your dreams.

 

Stick to your decision to stay home. If you're worried that family members will call you to try to talk you into going, or that they'll be angry with you, don't answer the phone and don't respond to any emails. Period.

 

I'm sorry your family isn't what you wish they would be. :grouphug: But if you stay home with your dh and your kids, you can all have a great Christmas together.

[Elizabeth in MN]

I haven't read the whole thread because it's huge. IMO, you need to skip this trip for your own mental health. On Saturday you're going to have car trouble from that car. The battery may be dead and not holding a charge, two flat tires, won't start or the like. Poor car. Even worse, your mechanic is all out of loaner cars because a bus load of Nuns had a break down on their way to Africa to feed starving children.

 

Your little family needs to be happy this year. The larger family seems to self absorbed to give you that very basic gift.

[thebacabunch]

We have had boundary issues with both sides of the family. We are still in various levels of contact with both sides. We are a happy family and our own unit. We put up with weirdness. We do not put up with outward shows of disrespect. We have NEVER spent Christmas with extended family. SOmetimes we do Thanksgiving. Usually our visits are on our own time and at our own discretion. We are grownups with our own lives. We expect the same from our children. So OP, I vote don't go. Be cheerful on the phone on Christmas.

[Bang!Zoom!]

These things (and more) are exactly why I quit having Christmas altogether. It's too much.

[Rosie_0801]

It's about how quickly time goes and how little these things matter when they are gone.

 

 

Little things like persistent bullying by the people who are supposed to care most fractures people's souls.

[Ruby Rose]

DON'T GO! Either lie with an illness or car problem or tell the truth. What a bunch of jerks!

 

Use the money you are saving and buy your kids "AWESOME GIFTS!"

 

If they really give a darn they will mail the kids gifts, but don't hold your breath. Such a shame!

[gardenmom5]

Ask/ tell your parents to mail your kids' gifts and emphasis how excited they are about the gifts your family talked up. Go do something unusual/fun instead of the trip.

 

I've purused the thread - and you've received some good advice. don't go. sorry, won't work this year. end of discussion.

 

I would not even mention the gifts. if they are sent, that's nice and your kids can practice their thank you note writing skill. if they are angry you won't come, they will use you asking for the gifts against you. not worth it.

 

I grew up with massive tension at christmas. kids know, and it puts a strain on them. Christmas was not a joyful time. ever. I don't know how many pictures there are of my mother, grandmother, and sister GLARING at each other. no, I take that back - my sister was always in tears and they were glaring at her. When she became an adult and married - she started going away for christmas just to NOT have to deal with our family. (gee, thanks sis - I get mom and grandma 'cause there was no one else. :wacko: we held it at our house and WE controlled it. grandma died a few years later. I have not missed her once in 20 years.)

 

Thanks, girls. DH and I are talking now to try to figure out a way to back out of it.

 

take notes: "sorry mom, things have changed and we aren't going to make it down this year". practice it, and say it as many times as you need to. no lies, and nothing they can try and get their little wedge into to break your determination.

 

and about the "borrow a car/we'll pay for a rental" sorry mom, that won't work for us. hope you have a merry christmas. repeat as often as needed.

 

 

Isn't that the truth? :( I think that makes me even more sad, though. I can't help feeling like family *should* be the people in your corner. Always. They should be the people who make you feel safe and appreciated and warm and loved. And yet, so many of us here have some very unsupportive, vindictive, hostile family members. It's all just so very sad. Ugh. I feel like I'm grieving. How bizarre is that??

family should be. too often they are not and you have to implement boundaries to protect yourself from people who should be behind the walls with you helping you take on the world. but those are the most toxic people becasue they do damage from wtihin.

success is the best revenge. ;)

You have the opportunity to rear your children in a loving home where 25 years from now when they are with their own families they will WANT to come and see you at christmas. :thumbup1: (and the rest of the year.)

[Bang!Zoom!]

Right on Garden Mom.

 

You are smart cookie!

[gardenmom5]

Right on Garden Mom.

 

You are smart cookie!

 

 

btdt got the t-shirt. experience teaches A. LOT.

[gardenmom5]

That said. I've lost both parents, all the grands, and my husband's parents and grands. My only brother and his wife were total t*rds after my mom died and I eventually cut off all contact with him. I did it *because* life is short. Too short for me to deal with someone who doesn't love me. Too short for my kids to be taken in by him. Too short to always be dancing to the tune he wants to play.

 

It still hurts, but less than the hurt he could inflict. I no longer DO family drama. Treat me with respect or you won't have an opportunity to treat me any way at all.

 

my father died on father's day when I was 12, my mother 3 years ago - a week before christmas. (I have no cousins)

I maintained contact with my brother for more than a year following her death, becasue I know my mother would have wanted me to. eventually, I had to erect hard and fast boundaries of what I would tolerate. If he would abide the rules, he would be welcome. he wants to do what he wants to do. not in my house.

[Danestress]

Just to be clear, I hadn't intended on lying to my family about coming down. I don't feel comfortable lying. The van really is making awful noises and it really does make us nervous about taking it down there. I did want to avoid giving them a bunch of reasons about not going because it would have erupted into a huge....thing.

 

 

Hey I just want to say that I didn't mean for "lie" to be such a loaded word. You had posted that your and DH were looking for a way to get out of it (not direct quote, but something to that effect). I was trying to encourage you to be more fully truthful about the situation for your own long-term happiness, because maybe some of your family members need to hear about how their behavior is affecting their time with you.

 

I actually think you are within your rights, though, to tell a half truth (making it all about the car when there is a much fuller picture) if they make honesty too difficult. Whatever is easiest for you, given how unkind they are being. I just was trying to say that I think perhaps in your family, some clarity about how you are being treated and how that affects you would be a good thing. But I am not in your family, so I may not really get the scenario.

[Murphy101]

TranquilMind, on 19 December 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

It's about how quickly time goes and how little these things matter when they are gone.

 

You presume it doesn't matter when they are gone. I grew up dreading and hating Christmas because of this stuff and I don't miss at ALL the Christmases we had when my mother was alive and am glad that after she died I refused to ever play those verbal duls again. I'd rather not celebrate at all than do it like that.

 

Sometimes we don't get the relationship we would like with people we love and sometimes their death means accepting that we never will. But that's better than lying to ourselves that we have some kind of affectionate relationship when in reality, it's mostly them being offensive while we play defense.

 

[TammyS]

TranquilMind, on 19 December 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

 

 

Sometimes we don't get the relationship we would like with people we love and sometimes their death means accepting that we never will. But that's better than lying to ourselves that we have some kind of affectionate relationship when in reality, it's mostly them being offensive while we play defense.

 

I agree. Also, if it's a difficult relationship that we care about preserving, I think it's even more important to keep them from poisoning your holidays because then you will just have added resentment toward them the rest of the year. Christmas is NOT the time to work on toxic relationships. Yes, I think some of those relationships can be saved, with time, work, prayer, and boundaries. But allowing that person to poison your holiday is not going to help you feel more compassionate about whatever their problem is. It's just going to tick you off.

 

Get through Christmas without them and joyfully. Fill yourself back up with all of the positives in your life. THEN you will have something in the tank with which to approach that person after Christmas.

 

But, IMO, letting someone suck your tank down to the dregs and shred you emotionally during the time of year that is meant (in part) to refill your tank will make it MORE likely that you will not be able to work on the relationship (assuming that working on it is desired).

[Harriet Vane]

Little things like persistent bullying by the people who are supposed to care most fractures people's souls.

 

Truly profound Rosie. Thank you.

[Harriet Vane]

No, it's very normal.

 

You're grieving the lack of relationship, the lack of respect, of caring, of everything a family SHOULD be, is MEANT to be.

 

It's part of dealing of the reality of what *is* rather than what you deserve, want, or wish for.

 

And I don't see ANYONE who refuses to put up w/abuse thinking they're the centre of the Universe.\

 

That's far more the attitude of those who think that they get to treat ppl like carp, time after time, and have them keep putting up w/it.

:iagree:

[Joanne]

With boundary challenged people, it's best to not give content and information. They are not reasonable, and they don't respond to information appropriately. It gives them content to dispute, argue, engage.

 

What you want to do (to maximize the chance of sanity) is to say a "We won't be visiting". That's it. Nothing about cars, cost, allergies, etc.

 

{{hugs}}

[Guest inoubliable]

 

[Impish]

Any reason you give will simply be used as something to argue about.

 

Which is why, "This doesn't work for us, we won't be coming" or something similar is best.

 

You don't *owe* anyone an explaination. Simply saying it doesn't work for your family should be adequate. Yes, they'll push for more, b/c they're used to being able to argue/bully you into doing what they want, and need a reason to latch on to for that to work.

 

You have the right to be respected. They're obviously not willing to do so at this point, so you have the right to NOT be around ppl that treat you badly. Your children have the right to not be around ppl that disrespect their parents.

[TammyS]

BROWNIES!! They are the solution to your problem! Everytime someone ask for more information...whoops, gotta go, brownies are going to burn.

 

Keep some in the oven at all time you are on the phone with them and it will be true!

[Murphy101]

BROWNIES!! They are the solution to your problem! Everytime someone ask for more information...whoops, gotta go, brownies are going to burn.

Keep some in the oven at all time you are on the phone with them and it will be true!

 

Haha! I use diapers and making a meal. There's always a diaper to change and someone to feed around here.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

[gardenmom5]

The bolded is exactly why I was struggling with what to say to them about not going down to visit. Even not giving them a reason results in a lot of "why??" and then I get phone calls with things like "Well. *She/he* said you weren't coming because blahblahblah and *she/he* called me to find out why... So... Is it because blahblahblah??". And that's what happened at Thanksgiving.

 

 

 

okay, here's a tutorial

 

Why?

because we can't

is it because of ___

It's becasue we can't

 

change the subject. if they persist - say goodbye and you'll talk to them later and HANG UP.

 

you don't give unreasonable people information they are just going to use against you.

 

eta: the fact they are sending people to check on you because they are "worried" infers you really need to work on establishing boundaries.

when someone shows at your door - say we're fine, sorry they went to so much trouble to stop by, but you're fine. goodbye - shut door. you do. not. have. to. invite. them. in. if you need to, pretend you're on your way out, and then leave for a short errand - even if it is a short drive.

 

if we didn't call my grandmother 30 minutes after leaving her house to say we arrived safely, she'd call us. I grew up thinking that was normal. it isn't.

[Brilliant]

 

...Even not giving them a reason results in a lot of "why??" and then I get phone calls with things like "Well. *She/he* said you weren't coming because blahblahblah and *she/he* called me to find out why... So... Is it because blahblahblah??". And that's what happened at Thanksgiving....

 

 

"We couldn't possibly!"

 

I learned that on this board. Repeat as necessary, "Oh, we just couldn't POSSIBLY!", with no reason given.

[Catwoman]

Oops -- wrong thread! :blush:

[Seasider]

KK, grab those gifts you've bought, toss 'em in your car and take them straightaway to the post office. Pronto!

 

Come home, send an email saying, "So sorry, our vehicle is misbehaving, we have decided it is not reliable for safe travel at this time. Y'all have fun, tata!" [ETA - note no complex rationale for the change of plan - the car is your only story and you're sticking with it}.

 

Immediately after hitting the send button, engage your voice mail and turn off the phone ringer. Get out all the holiday books and games and cookie recipes and Christmas music and dive in with your kids. [ETA - don't waste your time making extensive lists of why you've made a good decision not to go - make good memories with your kids instead].

 

This is a new day, KK, take charge of it!

[laundrycrisis]

 

You are right, though, Joanne. I will be simply saying that I just cannot make it and trying very hard to leave it at that. And then rock back and forth in a corner of my house.

 

 

:grouphug: Not like this. Give yourself permission, and un-invite guilt from your holiday guest list. Make yourself a pot or cup of whatever you most like to sip, decorate your home, light a candle, put on some cheerful music, and enjoy your holiday season ! It is not supposed to be a time when we are guilt-ridden and miserable. Reclaim the season for yourself, and for the loved ones in your own household. It's a gift from you, to yourself, and the people you love the most.

 

If someone shows up at your door - "Hi ! We're fine - thanks for checking ! Have a great holiday !" Give them a vegan cookie through the door and send them on their way.

[Seasider]

A nod to your original post, staying classy amidst it all...

 

Miss Manners used to say that it is the height of good manners not to point out others' bad manners.

 

A brief note of "the car isn't reliable" is both true and classy. No need to point out all their flaws, simply choose to not subject your sweet nuclear family to them.

[TammyS]

 

LOL. That's a little more... pleasant than DH's suggestion last night of "Gotta go. Explosive diarrhea. *click*".

 

LOL!

 

Just think, though, if you keep brownies in the oven - you get to eat them later as a reward for not screaming "explosive diarrhea!"!

 

MMMM, brownies.

[Hen]

 

Isn't that the truth? :( I think that makes me even more sad, though. I can't help feeling like family *should* be the people in your corner. Always. They should be the people who make you feel safe and appreciated and warm and loved. And yet, so many of us here have some very unsupportive, vindictive, hostile family members. It's all just so very sad.

 

Ugh. I feel like I'm grieving. How bizarre is that??

 

you are spot on with this. We have tried to drum it into our kids that home is our safe spot and that is why we don't tolerate any of the kids being mean to each other, bullying, making fun of. A bit of teasing is okay, but it has to stop when the other person isn't laughing anymore. So, living like this, I now won't spend time with my extended family that did treat me crappy in the past- growing up that way totally messed up my crap-o-meter and I want my kids to have a very strong sense of bad treatment and not needing to put up with it. So, we limit how much time and how much abuse we put up with in extended family cases. Yes, I do still try to see my family, I do put up with more trying stuff than I would with others, because they are family, but it is extremely limited and short amounts of time.

 

I am teaching my kids what a normal, healthy family looks like and how to live with grace and dignity and how people should treat others. People who treat other people, specially family- crappy, earn less time spent as a natural consequence.

[Hen]

With boundary challenged people, it's best to not give content and information. They are not reasonable, and they don't respond to information appropriately. It gives them content to dispute, argue, engage.

 

What you want to do (to maximize the chance of sanity) is to say a "We won't be visiting". That's it. Nothing about cars, cost, allergies, etc.

 

{{hugs}}

 

I agree. I have also learned, from dealing with toxic family, -that offering excuses and reasons -in my mind I'm trying to be gentle and make them feel less bad about my not doing what they want/ trying to not seem harsh...but in reality I have learned that to toxic and/or unpleasant and/or selfish people it is a sign of weakness to them and to them it sounds like an apology as in you are doing something wrong in not going and you are now asking for permission to not go. They will then proceed to knock down all of your reasons/excuses and prove again that you are the bad person/ unworthy person/ difficult person.

 

excuses equals weakness with hurtful people. I had to learn to keep it short and sweet and a lot less personal.

 

"I'm sorry, but it won't work out for us this year for a visit. I'd love to call and arrange a visit after the holidays." rinse and repeat.

[Remudamom]

Merciful heavens. I've been sick as a dog and just saw this.

 

Don't you go. Do what Imp says.

 

If you waver send me your mom's number. I'ma fix this for you.

[Impish]

Merciful heavens. I've been sick as a dog and just saw this.

 

Don't you go. Do what Imp says.

 

If you waver send me your mom's number. I'ma fix this for you.

sorry you've been sick...but I love that you offered to have a chat w/the mom! Love me some Remuda!

[Guest inoubliable]

 

[Brilliant]

sorry you've been sick...but I love that you offered to have a chat w/the mom! Love me some Remuda!

 

 

Me too! I think Remuda once offered to take care of a neighbor I was having problems with. :D

[BrookValley.]

I'm glad that you decided not to go! Now enjoy your happy vegan holiday without the drama. :)

[AK_Mom4]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

And it sounds like you were VERY CLASSY indeed! :hat:

[Forget-Me-Not]

Glad it worked out! How is your son?

[Impish]

glad you made the decision that's best for your family! It's not easy, I know, but honestly, sounds like the best decision you could have made, given the circumstances :grouphug:

[Guest inoubliable]

 

[Forget-Me-Not]

Oh good , glad he is better :)

[Guest inoubliable]

 

[Impish]

Enjoy! Truly!

 

I remember the first yr I wasn't 'home' for Christmas, after having moved across country. I had the nagging feeling that something was wrong, missing...I mean, beyond the obvious command performace.

 

I realized...it was the stress and drama. No tiptoeing around. No wondering who's not talking to who. No cat butt face at the dinner table b/c someone wasn't gushed over enough, praised enough...no sarcastic jabs, backhanded comments, insults that were passed off as 'joking' and if you objected, being told you were too sensitive, and then a whole thing followed, ie, "Wait! you can't say anything or she'll cryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, she's too sensitive!" or being called Little Miss Psychologist b/c I didn't beat my kids...

 

Amazing what the LACK of stress can do!

[Harriet Vane]

Enjoy! Truly!

 

I remember the first yr I wasn't 'home' for Christmas, after having moved across country. I had the nagging feeling that something was wrong, missing...I mean, beyond the obvious command performace.

 

I realized...it was the stress and drama. No tiptoeing around. No wondering who's not talking to who. No cat butt face at the dinner table b/c someone wasn't gushed over enough, praised enough...no sarcastic jabs, backhanded comments, insults that were passed off as 'joking' and if you objected, being told you were too sensitive, and then a whole thing followed, ie, "Wait! you can't say anything or she'll cryyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, she's too sensitive!" or being called Little Miss Psychologist b/c I didn't beat my kids...

 

Amazing what the LACK of stress can do!

 

Exactly.

 

Maybe I need to move across the country too . . .

[Harriet Vane]

By the way, Kim, I'm so glad this has worked out for you. Let your irate family members stew in their own juices. Don't explain or apologize at any point to any of them.

[Impish]

Well, for me, I'd had this feeling for over a yr that I needed to move to a particular city across country.

When the SWAT team stormed through the playground at the end of my row of townhouses, that was the last straw.

Sold my appliances, had a cpl of wknds of garage sales, arranged for a place to stay through friends, and was on a plane in about a mth.

 

Met Wolf 6 wks after I moved.

 

Best. Decision. Ever.

[Guest inoubliable]