nm

[Harriet Vane]

 

You are still teaching the kids that you don't support or visit family unless they meet your standards and it will be enjoyable for you. Bad idea, in my view.

 

You go and do the best you can.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't tolerate bullies, family or not. Yes, that is a standard that they have to meet, and I am not ashamed in any way of having such a standard.

[Harriet Vane]

Just to be clear, I hadn't intended on lying to my family about coming down. I don't feel comfortable lying. The van really is making awful noises and it really does make us nervous about taking it down there. I did want to avoid giving them a bunch of reasons about not going because it would have erupted into a huge....thing. My concerns would be belittled and for every reason/excuse I gave, they'd counter it and I'd just be going round and round with them. I did want to avoid that. I wouldn't lie to the children, either. I talked to them earlier. I simply explained that finances were not going to allow us to go down for a visit after all and that we would prefer to stay comfortably within budget and enjoy each other this weekend, rather than stretch ourselves financially just to hang out with people who weren't all that kind. DS5 said, "Mom, we get it. We don't like bullies, either."

 

And being vegan? It's not an allergy issue, exactly. The children and I don't do well with dairy products and I don't feel well after eating some meat. It IS more of a lifestyle choice for us, I'll admit. Eating meat and dairy wouldn't have killed us, no. But it did make me angry that I was being told in a way that was obviously meant just to get me upset at someone else and simply because it was disrespectful of our choice.

 

 

Sounds like you have handled it perfectly. And bravo to your ds! Children see and understand so much--it's better to be matter-of-fact about reality.

 

As for the vegan stuff--it may not be an allergy, but it is your right to choose this lifestyle, and unbelievably disrespectful for others to try to test you or trip you up. It's not that hard to have side dishes available that are vegan and therefore available for your family.

[SebastianCat]

Just to be clear, I hadn't intended on lying to my family about coming down. I don't feel comfortable lying. The van really is making awful noises and it really does make us nervous about taking it down there. I did want to avoid giving them a bunch of reasons about not going because it would have erupted into a huge....thing. My concerns would be belittled and for every reason/excuse I gave, they'd counter it and I'd just be going round and round with them. I did want to avoid that. I wouldn't lie to the children, either. I talked to them earlier. I simply explained that finances were not going to allow us to go down for a visit after all and that we would prefer to stay comfortably within budget and enjoy each other this weekend, rather than stretch ourselves financially just to hang out with people who weren't all that kind. DS5 said, "Mom, we get it. We don't like bullies, either."

 

And being vegan? It's not an allergy issue, exactly. The children and I don't do well with dairy products and I don't feel well after eating some meat. It IS more of a lifestyle choice for us, I'll admit. Eating meat and dairy wouldn't have killed us, no. But it did make me angry that I was being told in a way that was obviously meant just to get me upset at someone else and simply because it was disrespectful of our choice.

I think you're handling it as well as you can. I agree with others that if I was hosting Christmas dinner, it would be impossible to change my own style of cooking to be completely vegan, but I could at least *try* to make an effort to accommodate those needs with *some* of the dishes. I also would totally understand if one/some of my guests needed to bring their own food (like my sister does for my nephew who has severe food allergies).

 

It's hard to spend time with extended family when you don't fit in. For mostly different reasons, we don't fit in to DH's extended family, and it's especially hard to spend holidays with them. Enjoy your drama-free Christmas as much as you can!

[Hen]

 

 

Or else go, pretend you are going to write a memoir, emotionally detach and try to enjoy the show. The bigger jerks they are, the better. No one likes memoirs about calm, easy extended families.

 

:laugh:

 

}} this was the only way I got through my mother dying and her funeral this Summer. My step-siblings are horrid. I kept thinking of how I will write a fiction story about all of this, with them as the main characters. It was the only thing that stopped my mouth and got me through it with no drama on my side.

 

hugs to you, OP....I hope you do what makes you happy.

[Impish]

I will never understand accepting horrid behaviour from someone due to DNA/family lines.

 

I mean, family should be counted on to treat you BETTER than anyone else, not worse.

 

Teaching kids that just b/c someone is family, you have to suck up their mistreatment is just wrong, imo.

[Happy]

What goes around, comes around.

 

How you treat your parents is generally how your kids will treat you. That's an important principle to me. Do unto others and all that.

 

Lest someone ridiculously start arguing that I must mean that you should leave your children with related molesters or something, please don't. Utilize common sense in the application. But it still applies.

 

And they will all be dead before you know it. Ask me how I know, as we traverse through yet another holiday with a loss, as my FIL died today.

 

 

I get what you are saying. Truly I do. And the very first thing I want to say is :grouphug: . I'm so sorry for your family's loss today. It's hard any time to lose a parent, but before Christmas is doubly difficult.

 

 

That said. I've lost both parents, all the grands, and my husband's parents and grands. My only brother and his wife were total t*rds after my mom died and I eventually cut off all contact with him. I did it *because* life is short. Too short for me to deal with someone who doesn't love me. Too short for my kids to be taken in by him. Too short to always be dancing to the tune he wants to play.

 

It still hurts, but less than the hurt he could inflict. I no longer DO family drama. Treat me with respect or you won't have an opportunity to treat me any way at all.

[Lizzie in Ma]

I'm so sorry. I can't imagine my family treating us that way. The food issue alone would make my blood boil.

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[Rosie_0801]

My inlaws pulled too many stunts like that one year. We didn't go. It hit the fan, but had fallen off by next Christmas and everyone behaved as well as could be expected after that. No one will believe in your boundaries if you don't. The sooner you pull the plug, the better. The longer you leave it, the more suspense you will feel and the aftermath is never as bad as the suspense. You can always take your phone off the hook until Easter.

 

I am never amused at the expectation that I or anyone else should treat family bullies like minor deities because they are family.

[briansmama]

Well, I think the classiest thing to do is go, since you told your dc and extended family you would. While you are there, be open and honest by asking if each food offered is in fact in line with your dietary requirements. If it isn't, let the kids know your immediate family will need to go out for dinner together and return later.

 

I would make plans now to avoid this situation for all future holidays. They can come to you next year.

[beaners]

 

 

 

That said. I've lost both parents, all the grands, and my husband's parents and grands. My only brother and his wife were total t*rds after my mom died and I eventually cut off all contact with him. I did it *because* life is short. Too short for me to deal with someone who doesn't love me. Too short for my kids to be taken in by him. Too short to always be dancing to the tune he wants to play.

 

It still hurts, but less than the hurt he could inflict. I no longer DO family drama. Treat me with respect or you won't have an opportunity to treat me any way at all.

 

 

This is the point I'm getting to with my in-laws. I've been putting up with some ridiculousness because their health isn't great and I'd regret drawing a line in the sand and then having something happen before we could reconcile. And since then I've had some precancerous/cancer in situ issues of my own. The realization that there is no guarantee they won't outlive me was sobering. I'd been making decisions on the premise that they won't be around forever, but I won't be around forever either. Will I be happy with the decisions I've made if I am the one gone tomorrow, instead of them? What decisions would you make if you reframed the relationship this way?

[Belacqua]

Well, I think the classiest thing to do is go, since you told your dc and extended family you would. While you are there, be open and honest by asking if each food offered is in fact in line with your dietary requirements. If it isn't, let the kids know your immediate family will need to go out for dinner together and return later.

 

I would make plans now to avoid this situation for all future holidays. They can come to you next year.

 

 

While I agree with you that ordinarily we want to honor our commitments, I think the OP's family has already changed the parameters of the agreement. It's their bad behavior, past and promised, not hers, that made her want to back out.

 

And maybe I'm too cynical, but I wouldn't trust the answer even if I asked outright if a food met my requirements. These people have already announced that they plan to trick and sabotage; I'd fully expect to be told something is vegan only to take a bite an have them cackle and say,"HA! It has milk and butter. I knew you couldn't tell!"

[TammyS]

in a car that may very well leave us stranded on the way down or back up?

 

 

You are right. You do have a zillion reasons not to go. But the one above is the one that I would state (even then, the only reason that I would even explain that much is because we had committed) - because under no circumstances would I go. There is no point. You'll be miserable, your kids will get a front row seat to you being treated like that (which is likely to upset them or give them the idea that maybe you aren't worth listening to because others seem to have no respect for you).

 

Don't go.

 

Sorry everyone, but the car is just not up for the trip. Maybe next year.

 

IN AN EMAIL. Or on the phone, but with brownies that will need to be pulled out of the oven 2 minutes after you place the phone call.

[TammyS]

 

You are still teaching the kids that you don't support or visit family unless they meet your standards

 

Actually, this is EXACTLY what I would (and do) teach my children. There are, in fact, certain standards of decent treatment that I give and expect to be given in order to support and visit with people. I hope they will do the same for themselves when they are grown.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Sounds like it is time for my favorite excuse: PINWORMS! No one wants you to come when you have pinworms.

 

Next year you can have just found out you were exposed to lice and you need to stay in seclusion for 7 days to see if you caught it.

 

 

 

This is the funniest thing I have ever read in my entire WTM life.

[8circles]

TM, please take this as I mean it. I think you offer a lot to this community, you have some very valuable things to say. First, i'm terribly sorry for your loss. Losing a parent, I imagine, is difficult enough on its own - around the holidays i'm sure it's that much worse. [Hugs]

But, I feel like you are missing an empathy gene or something. People are being caused great pain by their families and your advice is always some form of "suck it up". Please consider evaluating your attitudes towards other people's pain, even if you don't understand it.

 

 

 

I'm sorry. I'd just go, suck it up for a few hours, and bring my own darn food. You can sweetly say something about how some of you feel better when you avoid certain foods, and you certainly wouldn't want to have any intestinal issues on their watch (who can argue with that??).

 

Eat your food. Smile a lot. Drive home.

 

Gee, family will be dead before you know it. It seems to me like you have them for a brief moment. My FIL died this morning. Suddenly, all the drama about how annoying their visits were (not due to him) seem rather unimportant. My husband will spend Christmas grieving.

 

I've lost all grandparents, both parents, all aunts and uncles, several friends and two of my three siblings. Now he's lost his dad. He said to me this morning, "Now we have that in common too." Perspective is important.

 

I don't know what to say about one kid opening gifts while the others cannot. I don't understand that at all.

 

[Alte Veste Academy]

 

Actually, this is EXACTLY what I would (and do) teach my children. There are, in fact, certain standards of decent treatment that I give and expect to be given in order to support and visit with people. I hope they will do the same for themselves when they are grown.

 

 

Yes, family or no, I would not hang out with people who have no respect for me. Likewise, I fully expect that my kids will not want to hang out with me either if I show them no respect. I'm fine with that. I would even go so far as to say that passing on enough self-respect to self-protect is one of my fundamental goals as a parent. And it goes both ways. I tell my kids even now that how they treat people determines whether or not people want to be around them. Gee, if I am a jerk to people, they won't want to be around me. Not really a shocker!

[JumpyTheFrog]

We've already committed to this. I spent money on a travel cage for our guinea pig. I spent a little money at a local dollar store for the nephews whose names I was given to buy for.

 

Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Just because you spent some money already doesn't obligate you to spend gas money and life (aka "time") on an event you said you are dreading. How much more obnoxious can a person get than purposefully trying to only prepare foods they know someone won't eat? That's totally not in the spirit of generousity that Christmas should be about.

[redsquirrel]

 

I wouldn't teach my children that it's ok to lie to people to get out of visiting them. It will come up again in the future when they say, "Oh, that's too bad you couldn't visit that year you had the pinworms."

 

You can bet your last dollar that one of the kids will say, "We never had pinworms! Mom and Dad just didn't want to visit."

 

Bad idea.

 

It depends on the kids, and only the OP can know how well it would work. I would be happy to take your bet because if an adult said something like that to my kids, my kids are going to ask me about it in private. That is just what they do.

 

And my kids know all about social lies. I would have no problem telling my kids that I told a social lie to avoid an unpleasant get together, and why I did it. I would be very upfront about it.

[Guest inoubliable]

.

[Impish]

Honey, just say no. "No, this isn't going to work." Wash, rinse, repeat. You don't have to justify, explain, defend,

[Eagle]

At this point I think you should tell the whole truth. "Mom, I'm really sorry but we just aren't coming this year. I'm very upset about it. I had some unpleasant discussions with my siblings this week and it appears best that we stay home. Our van is having problems so I used it as an excuse, but it isn't the whole story. I would love to see you at another time, maybe you could visit us in January?"

[Guest inoubliable]

 

[Annie G]

If you go, you MUST bring your food. You can just say that you wanted to make it easier on them, and act as if you did it to help THEM.

At least that way you can remove the worry about cashews or non-vegan food, and focus on getting through the rest of the weirdness they throw at you.

[justamouse]

Sounds like it is time for my favorite excuse: PINWORMS! No one wants you to come when you have pinworms.

 

Next year you can have just found out you were exposed to lice and you need to stay in seclusion for 7 days to see if you caught it.

 

 

 

*fallsdowndeadlaughing*

[justamouse]

Honey, just say no. "No, this isn't going to work." Wash, rinse, repeat. You don't have to justify, explain, defend,

 

:iagree:

 

Other than a yes or no, you don't owe anyone an explanation. Sorry, we can't make it this year. Period. :grouphug: You have MANY explanations, food, vehicle, and it's ok to just say no.

[Impish]

 

Imp? I want to be you when I grow up. :crying:

 

Hon, my parents are nuts. Took me YEARS to start telling them no. I was a single parent. My mom expected my ds and I at her house from 23rd-27th.

 

I put my foot down, finally. We'd be there the 25th, OR the 26th, whenever the rest of the family was going to be there, but that's it.

 

All. Holy. Hades. Broke. Loose.

 

I didn't have the RIGHT to keep my ds home. I didn't have all the stuff to do Christmas. I was ruining their Christmas. They had the RIGHT to see my ds when he woke up Christmas am. I was being cruel. My ds (he was 4) would HATE me for this. They'd never forgive me. I was doing this just to be a **tch. And on. and on. and on.

 

The best one was being told that my ds and I were NOT a family, just on our own.

 

I never spent Christmas Eve or any night of the holidays there again, and everyone adjusted. My Grandma actually thanked me for it, b/c if *I* went up for several nights, she was expected to do the same. My refusal enabled her to stay home as well.

 

I learned from that, that they COULDN'T punish me. They could rage, guilt, carry on like fools, but they COULDN'T hurt me, punish me, or make my life h*ll. It was my first step on my journey to freedom.

[Word Nerd]

Honey, just say no. "No, this isn't going to work." Wash, rinse, repeat. You don't have to justify, explain, defend,

 

:iagree:

[TranquilMind]

But, I feel like you are missing an empathy gene or something. People are being caused great pain by their families and your advice is always some form of "suck it up". Please consider evaluating your attitudes towards other people's pain, even if you don't understand it.

 

 

Never mind.

[TammyS]

Sometimes, you have to go out of your way for those older relatives and just put up with their weirdness, because that is what you do for family.

 

 

If they were being WEIRD, I would completely agree.

 

They aren't being weird.

 

They are being MEAN, and borderline abusive. It is NOT AT ALL the same thing.

 

Oh, and if someone wants to be mean to you, it is NOT a kindness to that person to allow it. There are possibly many good ways to handle it, depending on the person and circumstances.....but allowing it is NEVER a kindness to that person.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

[freesia]

 

If they were being WEIRD, I would completely agree.

 

They aren't being weird.

 

They are being MEAN, and borderline abusive. It is NOT AT ALL the same thing.

 

I agree. They will keep being mean as long as she allows them to. This is not the same as being odd or quirky or even critical. Playing with the food and making fun of gifts is mean behavior. If she refuses to take it, it may stop. If she continues to take it, it will continue and that is not what I would call positive role modeling for the children.

[Harriet Vane]

Honey, just say no. "No, this isn't going to work." Wash, rinse, repeat. You don't have to justify, explain, defend,

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

I have had to do it, and I know how hard it is to decide to do this. BUT. It can be done. It really can. Stand your ground. Most especially because of the allergy.

[Harriet Vane]

 

Yikes. I hope I didn't come across as wanting to be the entire center of the universe. I was fully anticipating going down there, and probably will still be sucked into it quite honestly, and so I was just looking for some encouragement. Some words of wisdom on how to get through it with some class and grace.

 

You did not, at any point, come across as wanting to be the entire center of the universe. Don't let those sour words linger in your mind. Those words were uncalled for as well as rude.

[TranquilMind]

 

Yikes. I hope I didn't come across as wanting to be the entire center of the universe. I was fully anticipating going down there, and probably will still be sucked into it quite honestly, and so I was just looking for some encouragement. Some words of wisdom on how to get through it with some class and grace.

 

 

I wasn't at all saying you were doing this. I understand where you were going with this and realize you will get through it just fine (though I'd sure insist on my own food, given what you have said about nut allergies).

 

But the dismissive tone of some of this advice sure has me perplexed.

[TranquilMind]

You did not, at any point, come across as wanting to be the entire center of the universe. Don't let those sour words linger in your mind. Those words were uncalled for as well as rude.

 

 

*

[8circles]

Yes, and it always will be that. Sometimes, you just can't be the entire center of the universe. Sometimes, you have to go out of your way for those older relatives and just put up with their weirdness, because that is what you do for family. So long as they are not abusing your children or trying to shoot you or something, yeah, you can suck it up for a few hours on Christmas to see those older relatives who won't be around too long. Nobody said you had to do it every week. Bringing your own food is kind of a small price to pay. I can stop saying it and just bow out, but there will just be someone else who sees this who will probably say it. And remember, I won't always be around either. ;) I've been thinking about that poster upthread who said she and her husband play "Bingo" and are kind of eagerly awaiting the expected words and phrases to come out of their mouths so they can "win" the private game they are playing. This is just such a great idea, and has wide application, the more I think of it.

You are right. The OP didn't come across that way at all, and that was clarified. Various others did in the tone of their responses.

 

 

OK. I think your attitude is cold & uncaring about the people who are expressing their hurt. It doesn't make them trying to be the center of the universe. Its interesting that you say that about others but you took the OP & made it about you. She should suffer through her situation because you just lost your FIL. ?? OK.

 

I also liked the BINGO suggestion. I think not going at all is a better solution.

[TranquilMind]

She should suffer through her situation because you just lost your FIL. ?? OK.

 

 

 

It's not about me. It's about how quickly time goes and how little these things matter when they are gone.

 

But really....never mind. So not worth it.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

[Catwoman]

TranquilMind, I just wanted to let you know I'm very sorry to hear about your FIL. :(

[Hen]

Honey, just say no. "No, this isn't going to work." Wash, rinse, repeat. You don't have to justify, explain, defend,

 

:iagree: :iagree:

Wisdom is spouted in this. Write it large on a piece of paper and hang it on your fridge. They are old enough to figure out for themselves that they were treating you crappy and that you not visiting is the natural result of that. Maybe your next get together will be a bit kinder and gentler.

[laundrycrisis]

I'm glad you aren't going. I wouldn't go. I don't see the point in giving any person or group of people a pass to treat me like carp just because they are relatives. Their behavior toward you sounds controlling and disrespectful. Been there, done that, and decided life is too short. If someone decides to be toxic and I decide not to spend time with them, when they are gone I will be sad that they chose to be so toxic, but I will not regret my decision to avoid them. I have lived this.

 

I would choose another time to visit, and do it on my own terms, and make it clear that disrespect won't be tolerated.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

[Joanne]

I will paypal you money to not go. No, really.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

[laundrycrisis]

 

Yikes. I hope I didn't come across as wanting to be the entire center of the universe. I was fully anticipating going down there, and probably will still be sucked into it quite honestly, and so I was just looking for some encouragement. Some words of wisdom on how to get through it with some class and grace.

 

 

Not at all. Being the center of the universe would be wanting everything to revolve around you. You are only trying to figure out how to deal with it gracefully when your family gangs up on you and treats you in a demeaning, bullying manner. Do not let yourself feel guilty for being offended by how they treat you. It's healthy.

 

I can't help with the class and grace part. I don't have much of either.

 

I also learned a long time ago that if I don't look out for my own interest in relationships of this type, nobody will be in my corner. I choose to take my own side. The other parties can figure out how to meet me halfway and then we can all be together and be nice to each other.

[8circles]

I will paypal you money to not go. No, really.

 

 

Count me in on that.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

[Guest inoubliable]

 

[8circles]

 

 

Isn't that the truth? :( I think that makes me even more sad, though. I can't help feeling like family *should* be the people in your corner. Always. They should be the people who make you feel safe and appreciated and warm and loved. And yet, so many of us here have some very unsupportive, vindictive, hostile family members. It's all just so very sad.

 

Ugh. I feel like I'm grieving. How bizarre is that??

 

You are grieving. BTDT. Give yourself time. [Hugs]

[Impish]

No, it's very normal.

 

You're grieving the lack of relationship, the lack of respect, of caring, of everything a family SHOULD be, is MEANT to be.

 

It's part of dealing of the reality of what *is* rather than what you deserve, want, or wish for.

 

And I don't see ANYONE who refuses to put up w/abuse thinking they're the centre of the Universe.\

 

That's far more the attitude of those who think that they get to treat ppl like carp, time after time, and have them keep putting up w/it.