K'er falling behind?

[3peasinapod]

I am beginning to seriously think my current 5yo (6 in March) will need to do Kindergarten over. Both of my older girls by December of their K year were already learning numbers way past 20, adding, doing light time to the hour. My current 5yo is struggling with even recognizing 1-10. I am at my wit's end. I have done everything I could think of, including waiting for a while to see if she matures, played games (so many games!), used manipulatives, tactile learning, auditory learning, sight learning, finding numbers everywhere. I have bought 3 workbooks just to only be able to do 10 pages in it, as it moves beyond the 1-10. She is not getting it. I have tried jingles to remember how to form the letters. BTW, she will write all the numbers on her paper without me saying anything to her, but when I ask her what the numbers are, she only knows 1, 2, 3, 5. That's it. Seriously, is something wrong with her? We have been working on these numbers in a thousand different ways since July!

 

Regarding reading, she is getting her letter sounds, but haltingly and with serious practice over and over and over (and over) again. She is just at the beginnings of blending. Please help. Also, as someone might mention it, my DH thinks that COVD vision testing is ridiculous.

[missiemick]

Personally, I think 5 is too young to be so terribly worried. Keep reading to her, playing games, and take some of the pressure off. Make sure she has things that she is good at (helping others, art, cooking . . .) If she still struggles in a year or so then maybe look into something else.

[TheReader]

She sounds like my youngest at that age.

 

i would not worry YET but I would keep an eye on things. Keep doing games, low key stuff, manipulatives, etc. Uno is great, and if she needs help for a while, no problem. She can match the numbers and each time you can remind her "a 7 or a red", "a 4 or a blue", etc. Say the name of the number as you play, every one of you, but don't make it schooly, don't make her repeat it, just expose her. Get some counting books or books that have numbers -- there's a great Eric Carle one, though I can't think of the name just now.....the one with a train full of animals.....maybe get Cuisenaire rods and let her play with those, or a hundreds chart, etc.... Just relax about it all for now.

 

If, in a year or two, she's still not getting it, then worry.

 

As for the reading, she sounds like she's doing well there, so just keep it up :) Make it light, fun, etc. and don't fret too much. She'll get it.

[PentecostalMom]

I think you are overly worried as well. I know it is difficult not to compare her to your other dc, but try to remember that every child is different and learns at different paces. My 6yo dd has vision issues, but the reason that I knew is because she would say things were "fuzzy". I am not overly familiar with COVD vision testing, but if you are concerned that she has vision issues, a pediatric opthamologist can confirm or rule that out.

 

Slow down a bit and take some time off. Maybe a month or so? Then try again and see of things are any different. My 6yo dd has been trying to learn to read and it seems like it is taking FOR-EV-ER, but she plugs along and so we keep working at it.

[Ellie]

I also wouldn't worry YET, and I certainly would not make her repeat kindergarten.

 

I would also not, not, not compare her to her older siblings.

 

Although you said you "waited" to see if she matured, I'm wondering how long you "waited," seeing as she's just 5.

 

You might be overworking the whole math thing.

 

I would expect a child so young not to have figured out blending in phonics.

 

Personally, I'd just back off for awhile. Of course, as an unschooler you'd expect me to say that. ::big unschooler grin:: But honestly, I think you're pushing way too hard for a child who is just 5, especially if the child's older siblings were apparently doing more than she. Maybe her inner self is deciding to be her own person, different from her siblings.

 

I'd spend more time reading aloud to her from good books, putting away formal phonics instruction for the time being, ditto with anything that is structured regarding arithmetic, being careful not to choose the teaching moments when she does things on her own. In the fall (or whenever you start your new school year), pick *one* thing for arithmetic (I like Rod and Staff; I think it has a simplicity that may appeal to your dd) and one thing for phonics/reading (as the self-proclaimed resident Spalding geek, you know what I'll recommend!). And I'd call her a first-grader.

[TheReader]

hijack alert --- Ellie, aka resident Spalding Geek, can I PM you some questions???? I've just rec'd my shipment of Spalding stuff and am finding it a bit complicated....although, I recognize it as what was used on me when I was learning to read, with fantastic results.

[Crimson Wife]

MEP 1A spends the entire time on numbers less than 10 and it's available FREE for download.

[Ellie]

hijack alert --- Ellie, aka resident Spalding Geek, can I PM you some questions???? I've just rec'd my shipment of Spalding stuff and am finding it a bit complicated....although, I recognize it as what was used on me when I was learning to read, with fantastic results.

Certainly. :-)

[Parrothead]

She isn't ready yet.

 

From everything you said, she isn't ready yet. No matter how much you drill, repeat and drill again she won't get it. The brain is working on other areas right now and hasn't time for your letters and numbers. Thankyouverymuch. In what area is she excelling? Focus on that/those areas for the time being.

 

Don't repeat K'er. Numbers can be learned in a couple weeks once she is ready. The basics of letters and sounds also. She won't fall behind if you back off. But if you keep pushing she may grow to resent school.

[Unicorn.]

I agree not to worry. Play Go fish using only the 2-10 cards, maybe even only use the red cards or the black cards. Be Sesame Street: "This week is brought to you by the number 6!" And spend that week doing everything in 6's and finding them everywhere. Read 6 picture books, and shout hooray every time she notices the number 6 on a page, or a sign. Or draw numbers on sticky notes, and post them around the house. Give her a shout, a hug, a teddy graham every time she brings you the number of the week. If she hasn't had her vision checked yet, maybe now would be a good time. I wouldn't worry too much yet. The great thing about homeschooling is you don't have to push to fit inside some box or grade. If you have to do mandatory testing at some point, and she is still behind, you can choose to label her a grade below if you want. Or not.

[swellmomma]

Many many K students are at the same level as your dd. My now 9 yr old ds was like that, and so is my dd5. I would put CLE away and either use the free math mentioned above, playing games etc. Or you may like mathematical reasoning beginning book 1 age 3. My dd loves this math program. She is nearly done book 1 and will be moving into book 2 (age 4) after xmas. It involves almost no writing, is one where you point, count, and verbally label items. DD can count to 20 thanks to hide and seek but could not recognize it written or write it herself, other than reciting the addition problems my ds9 has taught her (2+2 is 4, 4+4 is 8, 8+ is 16 up to 64) she is not ready for that either. Making math nice and gentle and fun is what is helping.

 

Now my dd5 I am having repeat K, paperwork will list her at grade 1, I will be doing K though more like a hybrid year, K in the things she needs, gr 1 in the rest. Then she will repeat gr 1 on paper is she needs it (the lovliness that is provincial registration makes things fun for me). I did the same thing with ds9 and I am so glad I did. He did K twice, (though his paperwork shows grade 1 twice), he is now grade 3 and starting to catch up in all areas, now that he has matured enough.

[3peasinapod]

Thank you all for your responses. I don't feel like I'm pushing at all, as we only do 5 to 10 minutes at a time each for math and phonics once a day. We took a month long break several months ago. My frustration with my inability to get over this "bump" has colored my post and the comparison is kept to myself. All of the responses are reassuring, though. I will look at mep and see if that will help her. We play lots of games, so we will continue with that.

[Ellie]

Thank you all for your responses. I don't feel like I'm pushing at all, as we only do 5 to 10 minutes at a time each for math and phonics once a day. We took a month long break several months ago. My frustration with my inability to get over this "bump" has colored my post and the comparison is kept to myself. All of the responses are reassuring, though. I will look at mep and see if that will help her. We play lots of games, so we will continue with that.

Ah...more information. :-)

 

What I'm seeing is that you're only doing 5-10 minutes at a time, but you've thrown a whole bunch of stuff at her in that short amount of time. Possibly you haven't stayed with one thing long enough to see the results you're looking for?

[3peasinapod]

Ah...more information. :-)

 

What I'm seeing is that you're only doing 5-10 minutes at a time, but you've thrown a whole bunch of stuff at her in that short amount of time. Possibly you haven't stayed with one thing long enough to see the results you're looking for?

 

Well, not a huge amount of stuff. In that timeframe for math, we would do 1 page of a workbook, make a craft showing a big 4 (or whatever) with beans glued on it. I worked with Abeka K math at the very beginning of the year for 2 months, but it moved too fast, as it was introducing teen numbers, and she still didn't have the 0-10 down. I put that aside until we reach that point, and that's when I got a few extra workbooks to practice just those numbers she wasn't getting. I have CLE K stuff that we alternate with a workbook from Wal-Mart (Big K workbook or something like that). We just talk about the pictures when we do the 1 page (sometimes 2 if she wants). We've counted the appropriate number of beans while placing them on a felt number. She wants me to do school with her almost every day, and sometimes we skip it if she's overwhelmed.

 

It doesn't feel like a lot, and I must say I worry about it (1 page and a craft or game), but she can't seem to handle much more. She'll count 8 things, and I'll show her what the 8 looks like. The next question will be 8 also, she counts them and turns a blank stare like she can't remember which was the 8. At first, I thought she was playing with me, but I don't think she remembers.

 

Anyhow, thank you for your time. It really helps to just talk it out.

[MissKNG]

Do you allow computer time? Have her play around with starfall.com and JumpStart CDROMs or other things along those lines.

[Barb_]

She may just not care. Some kids love abstract symbols (my asperger's son used to kiss the numbers on signs when he was a toddler) and others just aren't motivated to commit them to memory. Is she artistic? Verbal? Developing normally in other ways?

[LucyStoner]

I am pretty hardcore as far as academics go but even I am truly of the mind that a Kindy student can't really be "behind" academically. Behind in what? Scribbling? Listening to books? Playing? Keep playing and reading and coloring and in all likelihood she will just progress fairly fast once it clicks in. That click point comes at different ages for different students.

 

Don't dismiss vision, husband's opinion or not. I am a pretty smart cookie but I didn't really "get" reading at all until I was 7. Given that I later was on all gifted/AP type classes, I don't let late reading be an issue until about 7-8. When I finally did learn to read, it wasn't anything my parents and school hadn't already tried. I was just ready. In hindsight, part of it was a visual thing.

[blondeviolin]

I'll also say I wouldn't worry. Letters and blends can all be picked up in weeks if she's ready.

 

Nearly ALL first grade math curricula works with numbers under 10 for the first bit. Plenty of people don't even do math in K. If you really want math for her, put up a number line and count to 20 each day and then play Go Fish or Uno. Build with C rods.

 

Many first graders are just beginning blenders. Let her watch leapfrog and play on Starfall (the upgrade is worth the cost, BTW).

 

Read to her a TON.

 

And then send her outside to play and imagine on her own. :)

 

FWIW, we focus solely on reading in kindergarten. We may throw in the occasional other activity, but reading is what we make sure is done each day. :)

[reign]

Leap frog makes several math DVDs. My girls like the one called "math circus" it goes over what the numbers 1-10 are called. They also learned their letter sounds from the "letter factory" DVD if she needs some more practice with that.

[Ellie]

She may just not care. Some kids love abstract symbols (my asperger's son used to kiss the numbers on signs when he was a toddler) and others just aren't motivated to commit them to memory.

:iagree:

[TechWife]

Do you do calendar time with her? That's a fun thing to do & you can incorporate counting into that using straws, bundling them by 10's and then moving the bundles over until you have 100.

[Ellie]

 

Well, not a huge amount of stuff. In that timeframe for math, we would do 1 page of a workbook, make a craft showing a big 4 (or whatever) with beans glued on it. I worked with Abeka K math at the very beginning of the year for 2 months, but it moved too fast, as it was introducing teen numbers, and she still didn't have the 0-10 down. I put that aside until we reach that point, and that's when I got a few extra workbooks to practice just those numbers she wasn't getting. I have CLE K stuff that we alternate with a workbook from Wal-Mart (Big K workbook or something like that). We just talk about the pictures when we do the 1 page (sometimes 2 if she wants). We've counted the appropriate number of beans while placing them on a felt number. She wants me to do school with her almost every day, and sometimes we skip it if she's overwhelmed.

 

It doesn't feel like a lot, and I must say I worry about it (1 page and a craft or game), but she can't seem to handle much more. She'll count 8 things, and I'll show her what the 8 looks like. The next question will be 8 also, she counts them and turns a blank stare like she can't remember which was the 8. At first, I thought she was playing with me, but I don't think she remembers.

 

Anyhow, thank you for your time. It really helps to just talk it out.

:grouphug:

 

Well, I wouldn't completely dismiss the issues that are bothering you, but really, I don't see any girnormous red flags *for a child this age.*

 

I do know that sometimes focussing so much on one thing, such as number recognition, can backfire. My younger dd, who was quite mathy, would have been turned off by the activities you describe.

 

Also, you say that sometimes she's overwhelmed. That tells me that even though it doesn't seem like much to you, apparently it does to her..which *could* be a problem, but I'm just not sure it is, considering her age.

 

Perhaps doing something like Mathematics Made Meaningful --and ONLY MMM--would be helpful. No crafts, no other worksheets/workbooks, casual comments on your part if/when she does/says something math-y.

[momtoamiracle]

I agree she may not care. Asking my son a second time about a math problem that he just answered is like he's never heard it at all. If she counts to 8 once and identifies it, leave it alone. Repetition is agony for my boy. He just doesn't see the point!

 

 

 

 

Right now I would present it to her and go on. I would use a lot of counting storybooks, instead of dry math. Plastic letters and numbers, counting songs, etc.

 

I wouldn't consider her behind either.

[DoppeltGemoppelt]

Can she count up to 10 real objects with one-to-one correspondence? If so, I would not worry about her recognizing her numbers yet, and instead keep counting, adding and subtracting verbally.

 

Can she identify a black and white picture of a known object (cat, dog), if it is smaller than two inches and she has never seen that particular picture before? If she cannot, I would definitely evaluate her vision.

[alpidarkomama]

Personally, I think 5 is too young to be so terribly worried. Keep reading to her, playing games, and take some of the pressure off. Make sure she has things that she is good at (helping others, art, cooking . . .) If she still struggles in a year or so then maybe look into something else.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I wouldn't worry yet either, and I also wouldn't think of it as "starting over." Just meet her wherever she is and keep on going.

[Reya]

I would be concerned, personally. But I'd switch the curriculum and go for 2 sessions of 20-30 minutes at that age rather than 5-10 min bites. Some kids CANNOT refocus in so little time.

 

I would try Rightstart math and Pollard's First Book for Little Folks (free on Google Books). I wrote a curriculum off the second that got a moderately mentally retard 5-y-o reading at end-of-K level before he started Kindergarten, so it's a great program.

[Reya]

I would be concerned, personally. But I'd switch the curriculum and go for 2 sessions of 20-30 minutes at that age rather than 5-10 min bites. Some kids CANNOT refocus in so little time.

 

I would try Rightstart math and Pollard's First Book for Little Folks (free on Google Books). I wrote a curriculum off the second that got a moderately mentally retard 5-y-o reading at end-of-K level before he started Kindergarten, so it's a great program.

[Lolly]

I also would be concerned. I would have her vision checked; just a regular check/nothing special. One of my dc has issues with symbols. They just do not stick for her. She has had to learn all of them with mnemonics. Rod and Staff 1st grade has little sayings to go with each number. For example the number 8 is: Make an S and do not wait-Climb back up to make an 8. If I remember correctly 3 is: Round a tree, round a tree, number 3. I don't recall all of them, but I'll bet that child does! I wouldn't be surprised if she still has it quickly run through her head every time she writes a number! This child also had to use mnemonics to learn her multiplication facts. (She is dyslexic.) While your dc is still very young and there may be no real issues that time doesn't fix; what you are seeing could indicate a problem. I would be watchful, but not overly anxious, at this point.

[duckens]

What does the doctor say?

 

These are real concerns of yours, and although rare, some kids DO have cognitive or developmental issues. If there is an issue, to get help sooner than later is a good thing.

 

---------------------------------

Our story:

When our older (6th birthday today!!!! :party: ) turned two, she could only verbalize 4 words. She did use a lot of baby sign language, but usually the doctor wants a child to say FIVE words by age 1. Dd was 2! :w00t:

 

He sent her upstairs to test her hearing (and the same test was used for autism). And we received a referral to have her tested by a local non-profit.

 

Two ladies came to our home and ran dd through a quick barrage of 100+ tests. Each test was very quick. One test was to put a horse toy on top of the square with the horse (out of choices of 6 total farm animals). For another test, the lady wound up a little caterpillar that crawled away. Dd passed that test when she picked it up and took it back to the ladies to "do it again."

 

All of dd's testing came back normal, although she did still qualify for speech therapy because of the lack of verbalization. Everything else was perfect. Because everything else was perfect, Loverboy and I opted to delay the speech therapy for six months to just give dd a little more time. (The ladies were great about giving us this option; I held my breath when I asked for it, because I hoped I was making the right choice as a parent). Dd started speaking after 4 months passed, and it was overnight and phenomenal!

 

--------------------------

The point of my story is that the pediatrician (who sees a lot more kids than we do), knew what was within the normal range. And he was not worried, but was concerned. He was able to steer us to community services to give us the answers we needed.

 

If dd had needed intervention of some sort, services were available.

 

She did not, but Loverboy and I were reassured by knowing that she was just a little delayed in one area (speaking). She was developing appropriately in ALL other ways. Testing demonstrated this.

 

If you trust your school system, they may have testing available, too, but that is a subject for another thread.

 

Your dd may also be like our dd: You must go over and over and over and over something for her to get it, but when she does, it is incredible! If you think she's not taking it all in, that's crazy!

[hellen]

You've done a pretty good job of describing my five year old. I've also wondered if she may need to repeat kindergarten but all of these answers have reassured me.

 

[Mommyof4ks]

I would focus on her strengths and just keep plugging away at her weaknesses. It could be tht there are learning issues, but it could be that she is more artistic and just does not care about numbers to letters. Do you use the numbers and letters in your play time or just in school. Maybe she has not seen a real need for the numbers or letters in real life yet. My youngest was that way. Until it became clear that he needed to know how to add and read in everyday life he was not interested.

[3peasinapod]

Thank you all. She does have an appointment with her pediatrician, and I intended on discussing this issue with her.

[3peasinapod]

 

SNIP

 

Your dd may also be like our dd: You must go over and over and over and over something for her to get it, but when she does, it is incredible! If you think she's not taking it all in, that's crazy!

 

This part of your post sounds like her. She IS getting her letter sounds. We just have to go over it in many, many different ways. So she does understand symbols. She can tell me the sounds to about 10 letters right now and thinks of words that begin with them.

 

She just hasn't progressed with numbers.

[duckens]

One thing I did with dd was the PALS program. A friend who works in the school system with "at risk" readers gave me a copy YEARS ago.

 

(This is not to be confused with the recent PAL program by IEW. I'm sure IEW's program is very good, but I don't know anything about it).

 

On the page I linked to, look at "Lesson 6." That is a standard lesson. Most pages that I remember are like that (although it has been several years since I did this with dd). Have your child read the sounds to the star. When she gets to the star, say "Good Job!" If she messes up before the star, start over a the last star. Do a couple of pages/day. Whatever you think your dd can handle. We repeated the pages and colored in the smileys at the bottom each time we completed a page.

 

IMO, you don't need a teacher's manual or a DVD.