Wow....just wow...

[twinmami01]

I am in Florida and I'm just shocked and without words...

 

http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2012/10/12/florida-passes-plan-for-racially-based-academic-goals/

[Michelle O. in MO]

I don't know how this can even be legal. :glare:

 

This is so many levels of wrong.

[PhotoGal]

Is this for real? Unbelievable!

[simplyme99]

And the dumbing down of America continues .... :eek:

[NorthwestMom]

:confused:

 

George Bush had an excellent quote that applies here. "The soft bigotry of low expectations."

 

What a horrible development.

[MommaOfalotta]

WHAT!? This cant be real :eek:

[dansamy]

I am unsurprised. Affirmative action schemes and racism are still alive and well in the South. (By AA schemes, I mean things like requiring an ACT score of 18 from a white student and a 16 from a minority for college acceptance. NOT the other way around: a 16 from the whites and an 18 from the minorities.)

[ChiMomNP]

It is real. Virginia is doing it as well.

 

http://www.educationnews.org/k-12-schools/virginias-race-based-passing-standards-raising-eyebrows/

 

Their standards are even lower.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I was just reading this, myself! Equally shocked, angered, and horrified.

 

The place I was reading about it, that blogger said he saw the story earlier this week but it was just in his aggregate feed and he assumed it was from The Onion. He apologized for not reporting on it sooner, but wondered who could have possibly thought it was real.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

It is real. Virginia is doing it as well.

 

http://www.educationnews.org/k-12-schools/virginias-race-based-passing-standards-raising-eyebrows/

 

Their standards are even lower.

 

NO!!!!!! Oh, no.

 

I've heard about Oakland with the race-based disciplinary policies, and now both of these.

 

Where else? What exactly is happening? What are these precious children learning, and what will the effect be on our country when an entire generation is raised to believe that the color of your skin determines how smart you are and what you can achieve?

[twinmami01]

My husband and I were just talking about this. I can't see how this is legal.

[regentrude]

if that is not racism I don't know what is.

[newlifemom]

Isn't this what they did in Bradbury's novel? Weigh down the athlete and distract the scholar so everyone could be equal.

 

:blink:

[Lang Syne Boardie]

if that is not racism I don't know what is.

 

We've had wars over stuff like this. I'm afraid to watch and see whether the parents of today will just roll over and take it. I'm afraid they probably will.

 

That's what's changed in our country. (I apologize, mods, if that's too political.) We've always had people standing around waiting to inform groups what their children may or may not learn, or where they may or may not work or live or eat or worship. According to our history books, we decided that it's not OK and no group has to take what's given.

 

But they will. They will take it, for so many reasons that are not easily solved. It's going to be up to others to fight for the rights of these children.

[Anne in CA]

I feel dirty just knowing that this is going on in the US in modern times. I am so sorry for Florida.

[Jennifer3141]

Isn't this what they did in Bradbury's novel? Weigh down the athlete and distract the scholar so everyone could be equal.

 

:blink:

 

Completely!!! It's actually pretty darn terrifying!!

[Impish]

Uh...

 

I'm a Canadian, so correct me if I'm wrong on this...

 

But wasn't the civil rights movement about equality? And in the not so distant past? Wasn't the fact that skin colour had nothing to do w/a person's value EXACTLY what Martin Luther King Jr was talking about in his I Have A Dream speach?

 

Or do I have my grasp of US history completely out of whack?

[Snickerdoodle]

:eek:

[NicAnn]

Isn't this what they did in Bradbury's novel? Weigh down the athlete and distract the scholar so everyone could be equal.

 

:blink:

 

Vonnegut actually (or also). What a great book for the time, yet written years before the current state of things.

[Kathryn]

We discussed this over the article about it happening in Virginia a few months back. I was told repeatedly that it's not racist. Still not sure I buy it.

[Jennifer3141]

Vonnegut actually (or also). What a great book for the time, yet written years before the current state of things.

 

 

It's actually one of Bradbury's recurring themes. He was extremely dismayed by our educational system. He was also a genius.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

We discussed this over the article about it happening in Virginia a few months back. I was told repeatedly that it's not racist. Still not sure I buy it.

 

Was it discussed here? If so, do you have a link to the thread?

[fhjmom]

I am not reading it the same way that many others seem to be. I don't think they are saying that they think students of different races have lesser academic potential. The reality is that the different racial groups' current levels of performance differ drastically. For black students, the current percentage of hose reading on grade level was only 38%. For what ever reasons, those are the facts. I don't think it it saying that they can't achieve, just recognizing the facts that there are reasons (cultural, socioeconomic, etc.) that are currently disproportionately affecting that particular demographic. The department of education plan had a goal of 74%, almost a two-fold encrease! IMHO, that is setting pretty high expectations for that group to try to achieve such gains. The way NCLB is written, states must track data by different demographics, including race, socioeconics, and disabilities and they must also show improvement in those areas as well. It is actually trying to guarantee that school systems are appropriately addressing the factors that have historically limited the academic performance of those lower achieving demographics and reverse those trends moving forward. But also NCLB also requires improvement from schools across all demographics so those groups that are already performing higher must have the bar set even higher to meet the expectations of the law.

 

I think it is kind of crazy actually to expect a school that already has a passing/grade level score of something in the high 90% to "show continual improvement" but that is also part of NCLB. :p

[newlifemom]

Vonnegut actually (or also). What a great book for the time, yet written years before the current state of things.

 

 

Sorry it's been a long time since I read it. What was the name?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

But Tamara, the children are individuals. Little Susie and Little Johnny are not their demographic.

[In the Rain]

Wow!

[Firestar Academy]

What about mixed race students? where do they fall?

 

 

Robin

[ErinE]

Sorry it's been a long time since I read it. What was the name?

 

A short story: Harrison Bergeron

[Jennifer3141]

What about mixed race students? where do they fall?

 

 

Robin

 

Halfway between their respective percentages?? Although if you get a half white/half Asian person who has a baby with a black person and we follow this trend, in 30 years no one in the entire country will be able to figure out the percentage!!!

[Lang Syne Boardie]

What about mixed race students? where do they fall?

 

 

Robin

 

At first I thought maybe they'd just split the difference, but then I remembered that it's important to balance out the expectations with other racial stereotypes.

 

If a kid has a black father who is athletic and an Asian mother who is an astrophysicist, the expectations should be different for him than for a kid whose black father is a nuclear scientist and whose mother is an Asian janitor.

 

(Not getting any less angry the longer I think about this.)

[Mommie_Jen]

My boys are black, I am not. This kind of stuff is just part of why I homeschool.

[fhjmom]

But Tamara, the children are individuals. Little Susie and Little Johnny are not their demographic.

 

I totally agree by the dept of Ed plan is about groups and demographics, not individuals. If there was just a blanket "improve reading on grade level for students from 74% to 88%% withou specifying improvement by demographic break down, then school systems could still focus only on the majority population and strive for relatively small gains in improvement.

 

I am currently taking a course in differentiated instruction and our lesson last week actuly talked about taking into account students cultural values, family attitudes, availabity of resources, etc. into account when teaching. Like t or not, those things affect student performance and in some demographics they do tend to put certain groups of students at a more of a disadvantage statistically. Recognizing those statistics and identifying ways to help overcome those barriers to education is, IMO a good thing to help every indicidual student have the best opportunity to reach their potential. It in no way implies that a student isn't capable of achieving because they come from a certain demographic. That's not it at all; just that statistically there may be more obstacles.

[Denise in Florida]

At first I thought maybe they'd just split the difference, but then I remembered that it's important to balance out the expectations with other racial stereotypes.

 

If a kid has a black father who is athletic and an Asian mother who is an astrophysicist, the expectations should be different for him than for a kid whose black father is a nuclear scientist and whose mother is an Asian janitor.

 

(Not getting any less angry the longer I think about this.)

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

[twinmami01]

What about mixed race students? where do they fall?

 

 

Robin

 

Yes, I want to know too. My children are Hispanic and Black. Ugghhh...this makes my stomach turn.

[Scuff]

But what are the percentages now? Could it be looking for equal improvement?

[Joker]

But what are the percentages now? Could it be looking for equal improvement?

 

According to the linked article the current stats for being on grade level for reading are:

 

Whites 69%

Hispanics 53%

Blacks 38%

 

They want those #s in 2018 to be:

 

Whites 88%

Hispanics 81%

Blacks 74%

[GailV]

Isn't this what they did in Bradbury's novel? Weigh down the athlete and distract the scholar so everyone could be equal.

 

:blink:

 

Actually, this seems to be somewhat the opposite. They are making the different groups even less equal.

 

Off topic to original post: For some reason I associate the idea of weighing down dancers and putting heavy glasses on people who could see well with the movie Clockwork Orange, but I don't think it was actually in that movie (and I really have no desire to ever watch it again in my life). Was Vonnegut's story ever made into a movie short, and I'm thinking of that?

[GWOB]

NO!!!!!! Oh, no.

 

I've heard about Oakland with the race-based disciplinary policies, and now both of these.

 

Where else? What exactly is happening? What are these precious children learning, and what will the effect be on our country when an entire generation is raised to believe that the color of your skin determines how smart you are and what you can achieve?

 

:iagree: SERIOUSLY!!!!!! What did Dr. King march for? What did Selma stand for? What about all those brave black people who fought and DIED standing up for their rights? Caesar Chavez? Did it all mean nothing? We have a black president for crying out loud!!!! Reading crap like this makes me want to vomit all over the idiots who thought this was a good idea.

if that is not racism I don't know what is.

 

:iagree: Big ole flaming racism. Vile, sick, and disgusting.

 

At first I thought maybe they'd just split the difference, but then I remembered that it's important to balance out the expectations with other racial stereotypes.

 

If a kid has a black father who is athletic and an Asian mother who is an astrophysicist, the expectations should be different for him than for a kid whose black father is a nuclear scientist and whose mother is an Asian janitor.

 

(Not getting any less angry the longer I think about this.)

 

Ugh!!! I am so seriously mad with you! Just....dirty words. Many, many dirty words.

 

Why don't we treat the problem, not the symptoms? Kids from lower socioeconomic families perform poorly across the board. It isn't the color of someone's skin. For real! Do we really, honestly think skin color determines cognitive function? Really? The morons who wrote this policy need to watch a few episodes of Honey Boo Boo. Idiots, just like high-performers, come in all colors and sizes.

 

I feel like I need a Valium after reading this crap:glare:.

[justasque]

I've lived in that school district.

It's a whole 'nother world.

 

My local elementary school's stats were that the median kid - if you lined up the kids by test score, the middle kid - the middle one - scored in the 12th percentile. Twelfth. Not the worst kid. The middle one.

 

Families two blocks away from us in one direction lived in structures built with things they found on the street. (Families five blocks in the other direction were multi-millionaires, whose children went to the best private schools.)

 

If they can get public school kids in that neighborhood to score at 74% proficiency, by any means, that's a significant improvement. Significant.

 

It's complicated.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

But Pauline, we've now heard of Florida, Virginia, and California officially turning to these policies. And we know schools are failing all over the country, so it's not as if all the "bad" schools are in those three places. It's all over the country. But none of this justifies raising kids with different expectations for different races.

[SonshineLearner]

That is so seriously discriminating! :(

[abacus2]

My jaw just hit the floor. Outrageous!

[LucyStoner]

Like it or not, we have a huge academic achievement gap between races and economic classes. Acknowledging that is not racist. Not being willing to do something about it would be racist. I am disgusted that the gap is there but my disgust does not solve the issue.

 

Ideally 100% of kids would meet the standards and the standards would be high enough to really prepare people for a successful life. But these goals are not written with the ideal as step one, they are written incrementally. You weigh 240 pounds and should weigh about 140. Your long term goal is 140 but realistically you are more likely to reach that goal and not regain if you break that into manageable chunks. 20 pounds by New Years, about 20 more before Easter etc. you might like to say good by to the whole 100 but it is not going to happen immediately!

 

Racist would be giving some kids easier tests to prop their numbers or restricting enrollment to only those that will help them meet their numbers. This is a non-student specific goal for significantly increasing the numbers of students meeting the current standards. Same standards for all students, with a pragmatic or perhaps pessimistic (or realistic) acknowledgment a that 100% is not feasible in their district. This is not a low expectation for anyone. Right now MOST Black and Hispanic children are not meeting the standards. There are many strategies they can use to improve that and they set a goal which in theory forces them to be held accountable for helping kids of all races, rather than averaging the lowest and highest kids together and not tackling the achievement gap head on. It is racist and would be racist to not proactively seek way to eliminate the achievement gap. You can't deny that the issue exists for many, many complex reasons.

 

It is not the same thing as lower admission standard or graduation or discipline standards at all. There is a gap. What should be done about it?

 

Now do I think this district will meet their goal? I don't know but I wouldn't stake my life on it. I think it takes a long time and likely more than is in the schools capacity or reach to solve. We need more than school goals and bureaucratic nonsense to solve this issue. I just see this as far different than the VA and Oakland stuff it is being compared to.

 

Have you heard of the Harlem Children's Zone? That is a more comprehensive and proactive approach IMO.

Edited October 15, 2012 by kijipt

[ChocolateReignRemix]

According to the linked article the current stats for being on grade level for reading are:

 

Whites 69%

Hispanics 53%

Blacks 38%

 

They want those #s in 2018 to be:

 

Whites 88%

Hispanics 81%

Blacks 74%

 

Thank you for the statistics. What the jaw droppers in this thread are ignoring is that the goal is to implement policies that improve performance across all demographic groups while also narrowing the gap between those at opposite ends of the spectrum. It isn't about setting lower goals but rather understanding a substantial gap currently exists, and it will not be closed over night.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

The jaw-droppers aren't ignoring anything, Chocolate Reign. Everybody knows about the problems.

 

The jaw-droppers have dropped jaws because in the states of Florida and Virginia, white, black, and Hispanic children are being told that the expectations for them are lower than for Asians, and Asians are being told that they are expected to be higher-performing simply because they are Asian. And children of more than one demographic are being told what? Who knows?

 

We've got black students with assigned seats at the back of the bus. That's jaw-dropping.

[GWOB]

Thank you for the statistics. What the jaw droppers in this thread are ignoring is that the goal is to implement policies that improve performance across all demographic groups while also narrowing the gap between those at opposite ends of the spectrum. It isn't about setting lower goals but rather understanding a substantial gap currently exists, and it will not be closed over night.

 

Sure, but I think Brown vs. Board of Education shot down the whole "separate but equal" idea. I fail to see how separate educational standards is even legal, not to mention flamingly racist and discriminatory.

[Reflections]

Was it discussed here? If so, do you have a link to the thread?

 

 

Yes it was discussed here:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=414764&highlight=virginia+race

[LucyStoner]

Sure, but I think Brown vs. Board of Education shot down the whole "separate but equal" idea. I fail to see how separate educational standards is even legal, not to mention flamingly racist and discriminatory.

 

It is not separate standards. It is not different standards. It's a goal to narrow the achievement gap that persists because of the legacy of generational poverty and lasting impacts of racism which have persisted long after Brown.

[GWOB]

The jaw-droppers aren't ignoring anything, Chocolate Reign. Everybody knows about the problems.

 

The jaw-droppers have dropped jaws because in the states of Florida and Virginia, white, black, and Hispanic children are being told that the expectations for them are lower than for Asians, and Asians are being told that they are expected to be higher-performing simply because they are Asian. And children of more than one demographic are being told what? Who knows?

 

We've got black students with assigned seats at the back of the bus. That's jaw-dropping.

 

:iagree: How about I just follow you around this thread and agree with everything you say.

 

Chocolate Reign, we acknowledge the achievement gap. Many of us just think we should treat the actual problems (reduced opportunities, poor educational institutions in lower socioeconomic neighborhoods,etc.) rather than the symptoms (poor test performance).

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Nonsense. The reality is RIGHT NOW black and Hispanic are already performing at a disturbingly lower rate. Regardless of why, it simply is what is happening. A plan is being put in place that if successful will 1.) significantly improve performance among the lowest performing groups, and 2.) still look for improvement at the top end.

 

The "back of the bus" comment is offensive and off base. Making that comment about a policy focused on improving minority achievement indicates you lack a basic understanding of this issue and of black history.