Never, EVER Again!

[Impish]

Diva is at a youth conference w/the local church. I initially said no, Wolf overrode me and said yes. I didn't want her to go b/c a) I don't know anyone around here well enough to trust them w/my child o/n, as well as the 1.5 hrs there and back. Plus the $50 fee, w/Wolf out of work.

 

He insisted that she have the experience, I relented.

 

Yeah. They were supposed to be back 1.5 hrs ago.

 

Diva *did* call, about an hr after they were due (I was pacing like a madwoman across the street from the church, using Bazinga as a cover for why this crazed woman was stomping around, muttering to herself) to tell Wolf that they wouldn't be LEAVING until 10 PM! She won't be home until around midnight!

 

Never, EVER again.

 

It's church members driving, not an organized bus or anything. I have no clue WHOSE vehicle she's in, what vehicle, plate #s, nada. I've been flipping out, realizing that if there was an accident, I wouldn't have a clue as to pertinent info.

 

Last. Time. Ever.

[lmrich]

:grouphug:

[Catwoman]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Can you call Diva back and get more details?

[Perogi]

:grouphug:

[Impish]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Can you call Diva back and get more details?

She borrowed a cell, doesn't have one on her.

 

They were supposed to leave by 5 pm. Apparently, one of the events they were planning to attend doesn't end til 10 pm. So, it was decided, w/out consulting parents, that they'd be staying.

 

I'm proud of her for calling us.

 

However, she will never again be permitted to do ANYTHING off site w/this group again, unless Wolf is accompanying or driving. Period.

[Miss Peregrine]

Stuff like that makes me crazy! My blood pressure skyrockets and it is all I can do to not scream.

 

ITU. :grouphug:

[Hilltop]

:grouphug:

[Starr]

Hmmm I wonder why she called her dad? :lol:

 

I'm just teasing. I would flip out too. At minimum all parents should have been called by staff.

[Catwoman]

If you're really worried, can you call the cell that Diva used and ask what's going on? Hopefully, it belonged to one of the parents.

 

I'm glad Diva as responsible enough to call you and let you know what was happening. You may want to refrain from letting her know how upset you've been, because it might ruin her enjoyment of the day. She did the right thing, so if she had a good time, concentrate on that, and don't say anything about not wanting her to go out with the same people again. You can deal with that the next time there's an activity with that group.

 

I hope she had fun, because if she didn't, the day was a complete waste of time and money for all of you! :grouphug:

[Impish]

Hmmm I wonder why she called her dad? :lol:

 

I'm just teasing. I would flip out too. At minimum all parents should have been called by staff.

I was pacing outside the church like a demeted fool, pretending I was walking/playing w/the puppy. She called home while I was waiting.

If you're really worried, can you call the cell that Diva used and ask what's going on? Hopefully, it belonged to one of the parents.

 

I'm glad Diva as responsible enough to call you and let you know what was happening. You may want to refrain from letting her know how upset you've been, because it might ruin her enjoyment of the day. She did the right thing, so if she had a good time, concentrate on that, and don't say anything about not wanting her to go out with the same people again. You can deal with that the next time there's an activity with that group.

 

I hope she had fun, because if she didn't, the day was a complete waste of time and money for all of you! :grouphug:

There's no point calling, really. They won't be leaving until after 10, and having me go off on the phone isn't going to suddenly make them think, "Oh gee, maybe we should have ASKED the parents if this would be ok..." :glare:

 

Wolf already told her, "Mom's been going a bit squirrely" so she knows I was worried.

 

I'm simply going to tell her that I'm proud and happy that she called to let us know what was happening.

 

Heaven help the person that comes up to me, wanting to talk about 'next time' though. :glare:

[celticmom]

:grouphug:

[Impish]

I told Wolf that HE can take the kids to church tomorrow. I'm staying home, b/c Boo is 'teething'.

 

'Teething' being code for, 'if anyone approaches me to discuss a next time, or to laugh off being so freaking late getting my kid home, I'll be liable to smack the carp outta them'.

[Catwoman]

I told Wolf that HE can take the kids to church tomorrow. I'm staying home, b/c Boo is 'teething'.

 

'Teething' being code for, 'if anyone approaches me to discuss a next time, or to laugh off being so freaking late getting my kid home, I'll be liable to smack the carp outta them'.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

I think you're making a wise choice, unless you wake up in a nasty mood and feel like getting arrested for assault and battery. ;)

[AmyontheFarm]

Imp, what happened is totally not cool. Our youth pastor will give us an approx. time when they will arrive back say 5:00-5:20. If for some reason they will be later then that the adults will a) had their phones to the kids to call and let us know why and then they also talk to us. b) and this is they are on a bus together - they will text a designated parent and then they give the info out to all the parents.

 

I love that I'm told exactly who is driving my kids where and I know the office has license plate numbers, driver's license photo copied and insurance records are checked.

 

We had one time the kids were coming back from the USA to Canada and they were held up at the border because of an accident (the kids were about 1/4 mile behind the accident). We were all called and told to not head to the church until they called to say they had gotten over the border. I need to tell my youth pastor that I really appreciate him, tomorrow!

[In the Rain]

I told Wolf that HE can take the kids to church tomorrow. I'm staying home, b/c Boo is 'teething'.

 

'Teething' being code for, 'if anyone approaches me to discuss a next time, or to laugh off being so freaking late getting my kid home, I'll be liable to smack the carp outta them'.

 

:lol: :grouphug: I'd be livid too.

[Impish]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

I think you're making a wise choice, unless you wake up in a nasty mood and feel like getting arrested for assault and battery. ;)

Yeah, that's really not a great option, considering Wolf is applying for a job working for the community, and we know the guy that's hiring via church. Unfortunately, his wife is 'Queen Bee' around here...I mentioned her before...she approached me, saying that Diva wanted to be back in ps, and that I should put her back in...I told her it wasn't open for discussion or debate, and that Diva wants a pony, too, and I wasn't getting her that either.

 

The look on her face...you'd think I'd hit her in the head w/a dead, rotting fish.

 

Apparently, she's not used to someone not kissing her tushy when she makes a decree.

 

Her dh seems to like Wolf as much as his wife DISlikes me, so we'll see what happens. Either way, me going all Terminator on church members won't up his chances.

 

It's not a perm job, but something that would help get us through til he finds something, so it's important in the here and now.

[GWOB]

I totally understand! :grouphug: You know you raised a good kid. She called and let you know.

 

The youth group leader/pastor should have informed ALL the parents about the event schedule. They should have known when things would be over. I too would be pi$$ed that no one informed me BEFORE the event.

 

Momma Bear, you have every right to feel livid. However, (and this makes me twitch to type this) we have to let our kids have a little freedom as they age (supposedly). As a Momma Bear, I personally would ask my kid if she had a good time. Then, after missing church the next day so I could cool down/I had the Ebola virus, I would have a very sweet smack down with whoever was in charge, informing them that communication BEFORE an event needed to be improved. Now, I trust the youth leaders in my church. I would attribute such an occasion as a momentary lack of judgement, but I sure as he!! Would not let it slide. You just have to balance the crazy (or in my case ghetto) with the rational. I still think your desire to disembowel them is perfectly valid;).

[Denisemomof4]

Delays happen. I used to be a part of the youth team and always drove because I had a huge Suburban. FIVE HOURS is ridiculous!!!

 

We also had parents fill out medical release forms with insurance info and carried those forms with us. Our cell phone #'s were given out to parents.

[Impish]

Delays happen. I used to be a part of the youth team and always drove because I had a huge Suburban. FIVE HOURS is ridiculous!!!

 

We also had parents fill out medical release forms with insurance info and carried those forms with us. Our cell phone #'s were given out to parents.

It wasn't a 'delay' really. It was a deliberate choice on the part of the ppl driving, to stay to attend an event that wasn't ending til 10 pm.

 

As I just said to Wolf, they'd best be dropping her off at our freaking doorstep, since they won't be here til at least 1130 (they're about 90 mins away). Granted, the church is only a block or 2 away, but still. I'm not standing around a dark parking lot at that hr, not really knowing WHEN they're going to arrive. Small town or not, nuh uh. Not to mention, it's cooling off, and that tweaks the RSD.

[Denisemomof4]

They really should drop her off. If not, send Wolf!

 

I, personally, would never had done that without parents approval.

[Impish]

They really should drop her off. If not, send Wolf!

 

I, personally, would never had done that without parents approval.

we weren't consulted about it at all.

 

Diva called and talked to Wolf. Not an adult.

[Elizabeth in MN]

Delays happen. I used to be a part of the youth team and always drove because I had a huge Suburban. FIVE HOURS is ridiculous!!!

 

We also had parents fill out medical release forms with insurance info and carried those forms with us. Our cell phone #'s were given out to parents.

 

:iagree:

 

That's what my Mom did in the 80's when she was youth minister. Only, no cell phone numbers - you got house and location numbers.

[Impish]

She got home at 130am.

 

Seriously displeased.

[Elinor Everywhere]

She got home at 130am.

 

Seriously displeased.

 

:angry: 1:30! I would be angry, too.

[elfgivas]

fwiw....

 

where i'm coming from: i did youth ministry for 8 years within our congregation, and for the presbytery.

 

this is a small town. newcomers are rare. they have done it this way because everyone knows everyone and knows it will be fine.

 

that doesn't make it right, or helpful, but might explain a bit of it.

 

i would journal on my computer until i got to the point where i could make helpful constructive suggestions without judgement, in the vein of "ways to help newcomers feel more welcome and secure".

 

i was paid accountable ministry staff, and trained up to ying yang, but many youth leaders are volunteers who get very little training or support.

 

the need to be informative and accountable isn't even on some people's radar.

 

that doesn't make what happened okay, but hopefully gives you a peak from the other side.

 

:grouphug:

ann

[Parrothead]

fwiw....

 

where i'm coming from: i did youth ministry for 8 years within our congregation, and for the presbytery.

 

this is a small town. newcomers are rare. they have done it this way because everyone knows everyone and knows it will be fine.

 

that doesn't make it right, or helpful, but might explain a bit of it.

 

i would journal on my computer until i got to the point where i could make helpful constructive suggestions without judgement, in the vein of "ways to help newcomers feel more welcome and secure".

 

i was paid accountable ministry staff, and trained up to ying yang, but many youth leaders are volunteers who get very little training or support.

 

the need to be informative and accountable isn't even on some people's radar.

 

that doesn't make what happened okay, but hopefully gives you a peak from the other side.

 

:grouphug:

ann

I have to say I totally disagree with it being fine because it is a small town and everyone knows everyone. It might be that I've known Betty Smith all her life but what I don't know is that Betty has made plans for 6:30 that evening to have the family Christmas photo taken. Now since no parent was consulted the Smiths have lost their deposit and has to reschedule the session. Or it could have been something more important to another family.

 

Every parent should have been called if there was a change in schedule and those children who needed to be home by the originally scheduled time should have been provided a ride home.

[Impish]

fwiw....

 

where i'm coming from: i did youth ministry for 8 years within our congregation, and for the presbytery.

 

this is a small town. newcomers are rare. they have done it this way because everyone knows everyone and knows it will be fine.

 

that doesn't make it right, or helpful, but might explain a bit of it.

 

i would journal on my computer until i got to the point where i could make helpful constructive suggestions without judgement, in the vein of "ways to help newcomers feel more welcome and secure".

 

i was paid accountable ministry staff, and trained up to ying yang, but many youth leaders are volunteers who get very little training or support.

 

the need to be informative and accountable isn't even on some people's radar.

 

that doesn't make what happened okay, but hopefully gives you a peak from the other side.

 

:grouphug:

ann

I don't doubt that this is exactly what happened. However...

I have to say I totally disagree with it being fine because it is a small town and everyone knows everyone. It might be that I've known Betty Smith all her life but what I don't know is that Betty has made plans for 6:30 that evening to have the family Christmas photo taken. Now since no parent was consulted the Smiths have lost their deposit and has to reschedule the session. Or it could have been something more important to another family.

 

Every parent should have been called if there was a change in schedule and those children who needed to be home by the originally scheduled time should have been provided a ride home.

What Parrothead said. Completely unacceptable.

[swellmomma]

Holy Cow I would not be very happy about that at all and would make it very very clear that I was not. 130am is ridiculous. It is one thing if you knew about it and planned ahead etc (Austin attended a concert in the city with youth group last year so they didn't get home until 1230ish. I knew when they got to the city since they called to let all the parents know they made it safely, and when they were leaving the city they called again to make sure we knew. If there was any reason for a delay they would have called again to let us know. The woman that runs the youth group is my former boss so I can just imagine the problems it would have caused if she just randomly kept him in the city an extra 7 hours without contacting me. Continueing to be leader of the youth group would be the least of her worries when she had to deal with me.

[TN Mama]

:grouphug: I'm sorry. I'd be upset as well.

Wonder how the other parents felt? Were you the only parent at the church waiting for them to arrive?

[Jenny in Florida]

Sometimes, I wonder what's wrong with me.

 

I just responded on the thread about being away from your husband for two months that, while I would miss him, it wouldn't be traumatic for me (or my kids).

 

And now I'm here, thinking that I would actually be surprised if one of my kids got home from a youth event on time or before midnight. When I send one off to something like that, I first accept that I won't be in control while the kid is gone, that I trust the people he or she is with or I wouldn't send the kid in the first place, and that they will be home when they get there. All I ask is that either the kid or a leader keep me informed of changes in the schedule, so that I know when I have to be available for pick-up.

 

The reality I've experienced (both as waiting parent and as chaperone) is that doing events or trips with a group changes things. Everyone has a voice. Everyone has to go to the bathroom, and never more than one person at a time. One or two people will feel the trip isn't complete without doing one thing, and others feel the same way about something else. Everthing takes longer than expected.

 

I hope I'm not coming across as uncaring. I just feel so differently about it . . .

[marbel]

fwiw....

 

where i'm coming from: i did youth ministry for 8 years within our congregation, and for the presbytery.

 

this is a small town. newcomers are rare. they have done it this way because everyone knows everyone and knows it will be fine.

 

that doesn't make it right, or helpful, but might explain a bit of it.

 

i would journal on my computer until i got to the point where i could make helpful constructive suggestions without judgement, in the vein of "ways to help newcomers feel more welcome and secure".

 

i was paid accountable ministry staff, and trained up to ying yang, but many youth leaders are volunteers who get very little training or support.

 

the need to be informative and accountable isn't even on some people's radar.

 

that doesn't make what happened okay, but hopefully gives you a peak from the other side.

 

:grouphug:

ann

 

I get this, and I understand you are not saying it's right. I think this is a huge problem with small churches. So many small churches wonder why people don't come back after one visit, and often it's because "everyone knows everyone" and visitors are made to feel they walked into someone's family reunion by mistake.

 

Youth leaders should never make assumptions about anything, and should always give phone #s and such to parents. If there is an unavoidable delay, it should be communicated, and a change of plans shouldn't happen till parents have been notified and all parents have approved.

 

:grouphug: to Imp. What a terrible experience!

[Impish]

Sometimes, I wonder what's wrong with me.

 

I just responded on the thread about being away from your husband for two months that, while I would miss him, it wouldn't be traumatic for me (or my kids).

 

And now I'm here, thinking that I would actually be surprised if one of my kids got home from a youth event on time or before midnight. When I send one off to something like that, I first accept that I won't be in control while the kid is gone, that I trust the people he or she is with or I wouldn't send the kid in the first place, and that they will be home when they get there. All I ask is that either the kid or a leader keep me informed of changes in the schedule, so that I know when I have to be available for pick-up.

 

The reality I've experienced (both as waiting parent and as chaperone) is that doing events or trips with a group changes things. Everyone has a voice. Everyone has to go to the bathroom, and never more than one person at a time. One or two people will feel the trip isn't complete without doing one thing, and others feel the same way about something else. Everthing takes longer than expected.

 

I hope I'm not coming across as uncaring. I just feel so differently about it . . .

They were to be home btwn 630-7pm. They didn't *leave* til 11pm. Home at 130 am.

 

That's not a simple delay. That was a deliberate choice on the part of the organizers, and w/out consulting parents.

 

Sorry, but absconding w/my kid for HOURS after she was due back just isn't acceptable w/me.

 

If they'd been better organized, they would have known that the last event didn't end until after 10 pm, and we could have made the decision about sending her w/that info. They didn't know, and when they found out, they didn't bother to consult any parents. *That* is what ticks me off, royally. Just b/c I gave permission for this trip does not mean you get to extend it, by several hrs, on your own say so.

[swellmomma]

Sometimes, I wonder what's wrong with me.

 

I just responded on the thread about being away from your husband for two months that, while I would miss him, it wouldn't be traumatic for me (or my kids).

 

And now I'm here, thinking that I would actually be surprised if one of my kids got home from a youth event on time or before midnight. When I send one off to something like that, I first accept that I won't be in control while the kid is gone, that I trust the people he or she is with or I wouldn't send the kid in the first place, and that they will be home when they get there. All I ask is that either the kid or a leader keep me informed of changes in the schedule, so that I know when I have to be available for pick-up.

 

The reality I've experienced (both as waiting parent and as chaperone) is that doing events or trips with a group changes things. Everyone has a voice. Everyone has to go to the bathroom, and never more than one person at a time. One or two people will feel the trip isn't complete without doing one thing, and others feel the same way about something else. Everthing takes longer than expected.

 

I hope I'm not coming across as uncaring. I just feel so differently about it . . .

 

It is one thing if the leadership left it open and stayed in communication with parents. Are you saying if the leadership told you your dd would be home at XYZ time and they didn't show up for 6 HOURS later you would be okay with that??? This was not a 20-40 minute delay this was 8 flipping hours! If the staff had been in more contact with parents I am sure Imp would have been annoyed but fine. But if your child is gone for 6 hours past the time they are to be home with no contact outside of a phone call made by the child themselves a reasonable parent worries.

 

This was a grievous error in judgement on the part of the leadership that took them imo. I am fine with my kids being gone to things. I encourage it. BUT if I am told ahead of time they will be home at X time I expect them home at X time. If there is delays I expect communication. Period. No parent should be left worrying and wondering where their child is. Particularily when you know they are on the highway late at night a couple hours away. This was not an event in town. If my kid was in the city 2 hours from here and there was no contact and they were still gone 8 hours past the home time I agreed to I would be frantic with worry that there was an accident or something.

 

You said all you ask is for someone to keep in touch about it. That did not happen with imp. The leadership was in zero contact the entire trip even with the delay of several hours.

Edited September 30, 2012 by swellmomma

[Jenny in Florida]

It is one thing if the leadership left it open and stayed in communication with parents. Are you saying if the leadership told you your dd would be home at XYZ time and they didn't show up for 8 HOURS later you would be okay with that??? This was not a 20-40 minute delay this was 8 flipping hours!

 

Been there, done that.

 

My son went on tour with his choir a few years ago. This wasn't the England tour, but one on which they took a bus over a few southeastern states. They ran quite late getting back, and the only contact we had was from our son via cell phone letting us know about the problem.

 

Do I agree that the leaders should have:

 

1. done more research so as to know the schedule of the event and planned accordingly?

2. made contact with parents to inform/ask permission for the delay?

 

Of course. But, as long as my kids are with someone I trust, I wouldn't be flipping out over it.

 

If my kid was in the city 2 hours from here and there was no contact and they were still gone 8 hours past the home time I agreed to I would be frantic with worry that there was an accident or something.

 

But I didn't read that there was no contact? As I recall, Diva called before she was scheduled to be back to let her dad know about the delay, right? Did I miss something? (Edit: Sorry, went back and checked. She actually called an hour after their scheduled return time. To me, that would be irritiating, but within the realm of to be expected.)

Edited September 30, 2012 by Jenny in Florida

[Parrothead]

If my kid was in the city 2 hours from here and there was no contact and they were still gone 8 hours past the home time I agreed to I would be frantic with worry that there was an accident or something.

 

:iagree:I'd have called the cops and someone would be answering some hard questions at 1 in the morning.

[GWOB]

She got home at 130am.

 

Seriously displeased.

 

That is just not even kinda acceptable:glare:. Disregard everything I said earlier.

[Jenny in Florida]

I guess, too, that by the time my kid is 13, I expect a certain amount of the burden for keeping us informed should fall on his or her own shoulders. If the kid is old enough/mature enough to be away on a trip to a different city, I expect said kid to be capable of using his or her cell phone to keep me updated.

 

While my daughter was away at school, she went home for a break with her then-roommate. They travelled by train from the station nearest the campus to the one closest to the roommate's home (in the next state), where the girl's parents were to collect them. Our daughter had instructions to call and let us know when she got on the train (because, remember, she was 800 miles from home at that point) and again when she arrived.

 

She called after the train departed, but the time for their arrival passed without a peep. We texted and called her, asking her to check in, without response. Eventually, she called to let us know she was at the friend's home. The train had been late getting in, and she had trouble getting a cell phone signal.

 

My husband, in particular, was frantic and furious. And he didn't hold back on letting her know about it. But my point is that we were angry with HER, because she did not take responsibility for letting us know where she was and that she was safe.

 

(I think she was 14 at the time, if that's of interest.)

[nrg]

This is letter-worthy. This group needs policies and procedures to deal with this. Parents should have been told as soon as the conflict in times was noticed and given a choice, i.e. one driver brings everyone back who does not have permission to stay, parents can drive out and pick up their children, etc. .

Permission slips should include the itinerary (a la the Boy Scouts Tour Permit format) and changes should require permission.

 

Parents should have cell phone numbers of all drivers and leaders.

 

No field trip with children should last so late! The policies should include guidelines/rules about lateness.

 

I would take a firm stand about non-participation until there are some protective policies.

[marbel]

And now I'm here, thinking that I would actually be surprised if one of my kids got home from a youth event on time or before midnight. When I send one off to something like that, I first accept that I won't be in control while the kid is gone, that I trust the people he or she is with or I wouldn't send the kid in the first place, and that they will be home when they get there. All I ask is that either the kid or a leader keep me informed of changes in the schedule, so that I know when I have to be available for pick-up.

 

The reality I've experienced (both as waiting parent and as chaperone) is that doing events or trips with a group changes things. Everyone has a voice. Everyone has to go to the bathroom, and never more than one person at a time. One or two people will feel the trip isn't complete without doing one thing, and others feel the same way about something else. Everthing takes longer than expected.

 

I hope I'm not coming across as uncaring. I just feel so differently about it . . .

 

I don't think you come across an uncaring at all. You just have a different perspective.

 

The problem with this situation, as I understand it, is that the parents were not considered. The parents should have a voice too, right?

 

The leaders should have called the parents as soon as they found out that the event went later than they thought. If any parents objected, they should have left the event early. (And not told the kids which parent(s) objected.)

[Galatea]

Been there, done that.

 

My son went on tour with his choir a few years ago. This wasn't the England tour, but one on which they took a bus over a few southeastern states. They ran quite late getting back, and the only contact we had was from our son via cell phone letting us know about the problem.

 

Do I agree that the leaders should have:

 

1. done more research so as to know the schedule of the event and planned accordingly?

2. made contact with parents to inform/ask permission for the delay?

 

Of course. But, as long as my kids are with someone I trust, I wouldn't be flipping out over it.

 

 

 

But I didn't read that there was no contact? As I recall, Diva called before she was scheduled to be back to let her dad know about the delay, right? Did I miss something?

 

I would be with you on a short delay. Maybe up to a couple of hours if there's a good reason. But where do you draw the line? If 8 hours overtime is okay, is 24? What if the adults decided it wasn't safe to drive at night and they were staying an extra day? Would you be okay with that decision being made without consulting you?

 

In my opinion, if an actual decision is being made to change a scheduled end time (not just a delay), then parents should be part of that decision. Delays and choices are different things.

[LittleIzumi]

I guess, too, that by the time my kid is 13, I expect a certain amount of the burden for keeping us informed should fall on his or her own shoulders. If the kid is old enough/mature enough to be away on a trip to a different city, I expect said kid to be capable of using his or her cell phone to keep me updated.

 

While my daughter was away at school, she went home for a break with her then-roommate. They travelled by train from the station nearest the campus to the one closest to the roommate's home (in the next state), where the girl's parents were to collect them. Our daughter had instructions to call and let us know when she got on the train (because, remember, she was 800 miles from home at that point) and again when she arrived.

 

She called after the train departed, but the time for their arrival passed without a peep. We texted and called her, asking her to check in, without response. Eventually, she called to let us know she was at the friend's home. The train had been late getting in, and she had trouble getting a cell phone signal.

 

My husband, in particular, was frantic and furious. And he didn't hold back on letting her know about it. But my point is that we were angry with HER, because she did not take responsibility for letting us know where she was and that she was safe.

 

(I think she was 14 at the time, if that's of interest.)

 

It sounds like she doesn't have her own cell phone. She had to borrow someone else's or there would have been no notice at all.

[Impish]

I guess, too, that by the time my kid is 13, I expect a certain amount of the burden for keeping us informed should fall on his or her own shoulders. If the kid is old enough/mature enough to be away on a trip to a different city, I expect said kid to be capable of using his or her cell phone to keep me updated.

 

While my daughter was away at school, she went home for a break with her then-roommate. They travelled by train from the station nearest the campus to the one closest to the roommate's home (in the next state), where the girl's parents were to collect them. Our daughter had instructions to call and let us know when she got on the train (because, remember, she was 800 miles from home at that point) and again when she arrived.

 

She called after the train departed, but the time for their arrival passed without a peep. We texted and called her, asking her to check in, without response. Eventually, she called to let us know she was at the friend's home. The train had been late getting in, and she had trouble getting a cell phone signal.

 

My husband, in particular, was frantic and furious. And he didn't hold back on letting her know about it. But my point is that we were angry with HER, because she did not take responsibility for letting us know where she was and that she was safe.

 

(I think she was 14 at the time, if that's of interest.)

Diva doesn't have a cell phone. She borrowed one to call us.

 

No, I don't put the responsibility of this on her. She was at the mercy of the ppl organizing/driving. That she had to borrow another kid's phone, rather than the organizers calling us or making their cells available is another sore point w/me.

 

The organizers gave the parents an outline of arrival, departure, activities. A change in plans should have been a reason to notify parents.

[TN Mama]

I'd still like to hear if there were other families waiting at the church, since you did not know she wasn't arriving until an hour after she was due. I'm thinking that there would have been a ton of other families waiting at the church.

 

Just wondering if perhaps some families were called or ?

[LibraryLover]

You might suggest a parent ' phone tree' be set up. In our case, there is no such thing as 'on time' in band/ orchestra travel. I first got my oldest a cell as soon as he started traveling at 13. There are all kinds of delays involved in group travel. My kids have been that late.

 

Younger children need to have the adults in charge call parents, but the older kids do call parents from their cells or borrow cells.

 

I do hate picking a kid up at 2am. It stinks. but it happens frequently. I know all the music folks, and I trusted them. They also carry emergency forms for each child, with #'s etc.

Edited September 30, 2012 by LibraryLover

[marbel]

It sounds like she doesn't have her own cell phone. She had to borrow someone else's or there would have been no notice at all.

 

I"m wondering about this. Our youth group generally discourages kids bringing their cellphones. (Boy Scouts does too.) They don't want the kids texting, facebook, etc., while on the event. They don't want the distraction; they want the kids to focus on each other and the event or teaching or whatever.

 

Wonder if that is unusual, or typical. Not to derail, sorry if so.

 

But it does put the burden of communicating with parents on the shoulders of the leaders, which (imo) is where it should be. Kids are welcome to use the leaders' phone if necessary and when calling to advise that they are on their way so parents can plan when to leave the house to pick them up.

[Impish]

I'd still like to hear if there were other families waiting at the church, since you did not know she wasn't arriving until an hour after she was due. I'm thinking that there would have been a ton of other families waiting at the church.

 

Just wondering if perhaps some families were called or ?

I saw a cpl of other moms when I was waiting w/Bazinga. I honestly don't know how many kids were all going that weren't w/their parents as it was. And, being new in town, we'd def not be on the party line for ppl to call, kwim?

I"m wondering about this. Our youth group generally discourages kids bringing their cellphones. (Boy Scouts does too.) They don't want the kids texting, facebook, etc., while on the event. They don't want the distraction; they want the kids to focus on each other and the event or teaching or whatever.

 

Wonder if that is unusual, or typical. Not to derail, sorry if so.

 

But it does put the burden of communicating with parents on the shoulders of the leaders, which (imo) is where it should be. Kids are welcome to use the leaders' phone if necessary and when calling to advise that they are on their way so parents can plan when to leave the house to pick them up.

Diva doesn't have a cell phone, so I honestly skip over anything that talks about electronic use w/out reading it. No idea what the rules are about it.

 

Reality is, we were told by Diva they'd be leaving at 10 pm. That would've put them home btwn 1130-12. They didn't get home til 130, so even THAT was later than the revised sched, and no contact after her initial call.

[lisamarie]

I'd still like to hear if there were other families waiting at the church, since you did not know she wasn't arriving until an hour after she was due. I'm thinking that there would have been a ton of other families waiting at the church.

 

Just wondering if perhaps some families were called or ?

 

That's what I was wondering. Did they have all of the kids without parents on the trip call home? Or did Diva do it on her own? Did you get a call to tell you she would be 1.5 hours later than the adjusted time or did you have to stand around in the parking lot for 1.5 hours waiting for her? No, I would not be pleased. I would probably write a formal letter of complaint. I would be more okay with it if an adult called rather than Diva, but either way I'd be upset. EVEN if it were with a group of people I knew well, trusted, had more experience with. 8 hours is too much of a delay, plus getting kids home so late, not cool.

 

But I have told my DH that when our kids enter the teen years and start doing things like this where we are expected to pick them up, we will be buying a third cell phone to be used only for these sorts of times. So they can call us when they're going to be late, when they're on their way home, when they're however far away, so I don't have to spend their teen years sitting in a parking lot waiting for them to get back. My mom had to do this when I played sports and we traveled by bus. While the school said we'd be back around a certain time, games go long, roads can be congested, sometimes we stopped for dinner on the way back, etc.

[creekland]

Ok... we're totally different here. Something like this wouldn't bother me at all. I'd be hopeful my guys had a good time... and if so, they'd be more than welcome to go again. If not, they wouldn't have to.

 

BUT, then again, we're free range parents. My kids have been traveling with others (non-relatives) since they were in double digit ages and outside the country with them since age 13.

 

We adults are also used to traveling. We tend to purposely NOT go with our kids once they were past elementary age (sometimes not even then) so they could develop their independence and have a good time with their peers.

 

Delays happen and schedules change (usually for good reason). My guys know to borrow a cell phone (they didn't have their own) and give us a call. We usually have the phone number of an adult who can be reached. We seldom know which vehicle they will be in.

 

Once our oldest started to drive we usually didn't have to worry about picking them up either (only for longer trips).

 

And they've grown up to be college age without any issues at all. They are great young men. (And we wouldn't have done anything differently had they been daughters.) ;)

[Photo Ninja]

I understand your frustration. Unless there were extenuating circumstances, parents should have been consulted prior to the decision being made, and asked for permission to stay longer. Students who needed to return could have done so since it sounds like private cars were being used. Those who had permission to stay could have stayed. That way parents would have been involved.

 

Now that Diva is home and safe, you may want to consider putting your thoughts on paper so you can organize them, then set up a meeting with the leaders to discuss what happened. This way you can ask the leaders what happened and get their perspective. I would want to find out why they made the decisions they made. I would let them explain what happened without saying anything. After they explain, I would start asking some questions. I would want to know why they decided to stay, how much information they had before attending the event (they should have know the ending time in advance!), if they contacted any parents, if anything like this (coming home late) has happened before (is there a pattern, should I expect this to happen again if I ever allow my dd to participate in their outings), and why parents were not consulted before making the decision.

 

It may be that the leaders are young, inexperienced, and didn't consider the consequences of the decision to stay late. Dh and I have been involved in youth ministry for over 25 years and have known many enthusiastic, but immature, youth leaders, who don't have the same mindset as parents because they are not parents themselves. Many believe that parents need to stay away from youth groups decisions, and that the youth staff needs to be more important in youths' lives than the parents. Sad, but true. I have heard many say that they know more about the students than the students' parents do. Some youth leaders truly believe that parents need to take a back seat during the teen years.

 

Having a discussion with them leaders involved in the trip and listening to them explain their decision making process may alert you to what they consider their role in youths' lives and allow you to discover how they view parents. Perhaps something happened that you don't know about which affected their decision. I can't think of much that would warrant staying away that much longer without officially notifying parents, but I have worked with some youth leaders who would not see anything wrong with doing it.

 

Anyway, it would be totally appropriate to have a meeting to discuss what happened. Then you will have more information to use in deciding if this is a group of leaders who you can trust with Diva in the future.

[elegantlion]

I have to say I totally disagree with it being fine because it is a small town and everyone knows everyone. It might be that I've known Betty Smith all her life but what I don't know is that Betty has made plans for 6:30 that evening to have the family Christmas photo taken. Now since no parent was consulted the Smiths have lost their deposit and has to reschedule the session. Or it could have been something more important to another family.

 

Every parent should have been called if there was a change in schedule and those children who needed to be home by the originally scheduled time should have been provided a ride home.

 

:iagree:

 

 

 

The leaders should have called the parents as soon as they found out that the event went later than they thought. If any parents objected, they should have left the event early. (And not told the kids which parent(s) objected.)

 

This. Some adult take the time, call all the parents, make sure it's okay via the parents. Even if there is some small town networking involved in the decision, common sense should have prevailed. Oh, this girl is new, I'll be an adult and call the parents to make sure it's okay. For all they know Wolf could have yelled and told her no, get your behind home now and been left with no option but to lie to the leaders. Not saying that would happen here, but my parents would have been the ones that say no, stick to the original plan and I'd be left to tell the youth leader I had to go home on schedule. It's a very awkward position, but part of being a leader is being accountable to others about the decisions you made. Sounds like the leader took no part in the responsibility of the decision, which is you make sure it's okay with everyone's parents.

Edited September 30, 2012 by elegantlion