Algebra: Nothing is working

[DawnM]

My 9th grader started Algebra at the beginning of 8th grade.

 

He is now not even half way through. He just keeps saying he doesn't get it.

 

I am no good at math. Dh is but has no time to do it and gets VERY frustrated with said child so it doesn't go well.

 

We have tried TT and then Great Courses. He says neither help him understand Algebra.

 

Short of paying about $6,000 this year to help him with an expensive tutor, I don't know what else to do. We do NOT have the $6,000 for a tutor.

 

I am at my wit's end here and DH and I are fighting over the best plan to help the child.

 

Dawn

Edited September 17, 2012 by DawnM

[DawnM]

Yes, not for Algebra. But we have tried it twice before and he hates it. He has asked to never do it again.

 

Have you considered MUS?

[Mukmuk]

I'm not sure what special needs your child has. Does he need something more hands on? If he does, you may want to check out Hands on Equation.

 

My son is very visual and kinesthetic. He actually didn't like HoE, but he loves blocks and manipulatives. They've been very helpful in cementing his understanding so that now, he's able to manipulate them in his head.

[DawnM]

Now that I have calmed down a bit......I remember that I have thought in the past that Life of Fred might really work for him. He liked the one book we went through, although we didn't finish it.

 

Questions:

 

Do all the LoF books have the answers in them on the next page?

 

Would you start with pre-algebra for a firmer foundation or would you jump into Algebra, or does it matter?

 

Thank you,

 

Dawn

[DawnM]

The interesting thing is, he is an auditory learner in many ways.

 

He has always done great in math, until ALGEBRA!!!!!!

 

Learning needs are non-specified. He does have problems with the big picture though and gets bogged down in the little details. This is certainly true of stories/books.

 

Dawn

 

I'm not sure what special needs your child has. Does he need something more hands on? If he does, you may want to check out Hands on Equation.

 

My son is very visual and kinesthetic. He actually didn't like HoE, but he loves blocks and manipulatives. They've been very helpful in cementing his understanding so that now, he's able to manipulate them in his head.

[dbmamaz]

I tried several algebra programs with my son in 8th grade, and none of them worked. I finally started the upper level singapore, which is very teacher intensive, and learned that part of it was he really did not know a lot of the earlier math - esp. fractions. You could try teaching textbooks - i've heard great things about that - but mostly I think you need to sit down and do it with him, and see if you can figure out where he's getting stuck

[DawnM]

I am not sure I can figure it out. It has been 30 years since I have done Algebra!

 

He has TT. That is what the trouble was! He said the instructional audio didn't cover what the lesson was actually about.

 

I tried several algebra programs with my son in 8th grade, and none of them worked. I finally started the upper level singapore, which is very teacher intensive, and learned that part of it was he really did not know a lot of the earlier math - esp. fractions. You could try teaching textbooks - i've heard great things about that - but mostly I think you need to sit down and do it with him, and see if you can figure out where he's getting stuck

[jessicalb]

If he is struggling because of a lack of grounding in the basics, go to FreeRice.com or any other site that drills

basic math facts and help him get those down.

 

If it's conceptual, check out Khan Academy and Purple Math. I'm sure there are lots of other resources, but those have helped me the most.

 

Beg and borrow curriculums from homeschoolers around you. Try all of them - you never know when the one you thought looked impossible just rings out clearly for him.

 

Get into a co-op situation - you tutor someone's kids in something you are good in, and they tutor yours in math.

 

Find a homeschooled kid or college student who is good in math and who knows algebra and see if you get get a cheaper turoring situation than thousands of dollars.

 

There are lots of resources! :)

 

Questions:

 

Do all the LoF books have the answers in them on the next page?

 

Would you start with pre-algebra for a firmer foundation or would you jump into Algebra, or does it matter?

 

WE LOVE LIFE OF FRED! :)

 

Yes, they do all have the answers on the next page (or same page sometimes) but the chapter review/test/bridge/city/whatever has the answers in the back of the book or a seperate book.

 

What math did he have before that you felt prepared him for Algebra? If you thought he was ready before, then he probably is ready for LoF Algebra. However, if you want to take some time to do one of the Pre-Algebra LoF books that would be fine, and if you find him liking LoF but struggling, then definitely back up until he is comfortable.

 

Good luck!

Edited September 17, 2012 by jessicalb
silly typo

[jessicalb]

I am not sure I can figure it out. It has been 30 years since I have done Algebra!

 

I do all of the same math my son does. I shoot for staying about a week ahead. Very often we will stick at the same spot and I will have some resurces to help him get the difficult concepts. I think it's worthwhile both to be a help to him and just so I know the math. Math is a lot of fun, and Life of Fred is a joy to work with. I actually save my math as that fun thing I get to do when all my "work work" is done. :)

[DawnM]

We have really tried to find some resources. The only Algebra class offered happens to be during the SAME time as the Biology class I had already signed him up and paid for last April (started in Sept). The Algebra teacher didn't decide what class dates and times he would teach until late July.

 

 

I haven't found another one close enough to do.

 

Unfortunately, we live quite a ways out. I did find a recent college grad. 20 miles each way to get to her (so $8-$9 in gas each and every time we go) and the cost was $35 per hour.

 

Believe me, I have looked into several things so far.

 

I really wish we lived closer in to the 100% of the things we do! We drive about 20 miles each way 5-6 days per week to get to our activities. I want to move. DH does NOT.

 

Dawn

 

 

 

If he is struggling because of a lack of grounding in the basics, go to FreeRice.com or any other site that drills

basic math facts and help him get those down.

 

If it's conceptual, check out Khan Academy and Purple Math. I'm sure there are lots of other resources, but those have helped me the most.

 

Beg and borrow curriculums from homeschoolers around you. Try all of them - you never know when the one you thought looked impossible just rings out clearly for him.

 

Get into a co-op situation - you tutor someone's kids in something you are good in, and they tutor yours in math.

 

Find a homeschooled kid or college student who is good in math and who knows algebra and see if you get get a cheaper turoring situation than thousands of dollars.

 

There are lots of resources! :)

 

 

 

WE LOVE LIFE OF FRED! :)

 

Yes, they do all have the answers on the next page (or same page sometimes) but the chapter review/test/bridge/city/whatever has the answers in the back of the book or a seperate book.

 

What math did he have before that you felt prepared him for Algebra? If you thought he was ready before, then he probably is ready for LoF Algebra. However, if you want to take some time to do one of the Pre-Algebra LoF books that would be fine, and if you find him liking LoF but struggling, then definitely back up until he is comfortable.

 

Good luck!

[DawnM]

I have thought of this, although honestly, with 3 kids I have been so overwhelmed with other stuff that they all need for me to stay up on and teach them.

 

Algebra gives me a headache because I don't get it!

 

Last night DH and I got into a huge argument about it. His solution is to "just sit him here until he gets it."

 

Dh HATES spending money, so I THOUGHT that would get him more interested in helping oldest with Algebra (which DH does understand.) Nope, he said, "Well, I guess we will need to spend the $500/mo for a tutor because I am not doing it."

 

Problem is, we do not have $500/mo for this. It would have to come out of another fund......:glare::glare::glare:

 

UM, *I* could be told I couldn't eat until I get it and I would starve because just doing it *more* isn't going to help.

 

Dawn

 

 

 

I do all of the same math my son does. I shoot for staying about a week ahead. Very often we will stick at the same spot and I will have some resurces to help him get the difficult concepts. I think it's worthwhile both to be a help to him and just so I know the math. Math is a lot of fun, and Life of Fred is a joy to work with. I actually save my math as that fun thing I get to do when all my "work work" is done. :)

[Mommyfaithe]

Now that I have calmed down a bit......I remember that I have thought in the past that Life of Fred might really work for him. He liked the one book we went through, although we didn't finish it.

 

Questions:

 

Do all the LoF books have the answers in them on the next page?

 

Would you start with pre-algebra for a firmer foundation or would you jump into Algebra, or does it matter?

 

Thank you,

 

Dawn

 

How is his arithmetic? Is he down on all his facts?? Does he know all the fraction rules?? Can he convert fractions to decimals and vica versa easily? Does he have his order of operations down pat too??

 

I found with my kids, it wasn't really algebra that they did not get.....it was errors in their arithmetic and not having their elementary math down solid.

 

Just a thought.

[MomatHWTK]

I think you need to start with figuring out what he does know. I would probably step back to a pre-algebra textbook and start going through it to see where he's stuck. I made the mistake of purchasing a workbook for DS that doesn't have the answers, so now I'm studying pre-algebra right along with him so that I can check his answers in the workbook! It can be done. :tongue_smilie:

 

Do an evaluation-

Does he know his basic math facts?

Does he understand fractions?

Does he understand the langauge of math (i.e. integers, variables, exponents, etc.)?

 

Algebra is less like caculating answers and more like learning a new language. It relies heavily on logic and if/then type statements. Is he struggling with trying to find a quick answer like he would with non-algebraic work?

 

 

What about the offerings at Homeschool Buyers Coop? Have you taken a look at HotMath and Your Teacher? Some of the books shown here allow access to homework help and other resources without a login code. I have DS watch the pre-algebra lessons sometimes before we work out of our textbook.

[mumto2]

We love LOF also. I would go back as far as you are comfortable with. We moved through the first books - fractions etc really quick because we had already covered the material. But it did make math really fun and cement the concepts. The algebra books now have extra problems availiable. My kids wanted the whole fred story so I had to go back.

 

The key to algebra series might be another idea. It is a bit light content wise but because it is write in and very incrimental it might be a good starting point.

[Crimson Wife]

I would check what books you can get through your inter-library loan program. Danica McKellar's book Hot X: Algebra Exposed might be a bit "girly" but if he can get past that, it has really good explanations. Teach Yourself Visually: Algebra might be good for someone who is a VSL. Some others to look into are Painless Algebra and The Algebra Survival Guide.

[DawnM]

Yes, he has a very firm foundation. We did Singapore up until last year and he always got over 90% on his work.

 

So, I think that is one reason this is so frustrating for us!

 

One of the things that DH and I fought about last night was curriculum.

 

He feels I just keep ordering and changing the curriculum over and over again (I have tried TWO in the past year which I feel is appropriate, but whatever.)

 

The thing is, looking at those different curricula choices......I have NO idea! I don't know what will work with him! I just have no idea at all.

 

I have had him watch several Khan Academy videos as well.

 

TT seems to cover several concepts in one lesson. So, do I have him watch an entire hour of Khan per day to get each problem?

 

That is what I am really struggling with. I feel like I have no idea where to start.

 

He made it through about half of TT Algebra before throwing up his hands.

 

He has Aspgerger's, so even a hint of frustration throws him over the top. It is very rough on me too. He gets so angry and digs his feet in the sand and refuses to even try anymore.

 

Dawn

 

I think you need to start with figuring out what he does know. I would probably step back to a pre-algebra textbook and start going through it to see where he's stuck. I made the mistake of purchasing a workbook for DS that doesn't have the answers, so now I'm studying pre-algebra right along with him so that I can check his answers in the workbook! It can be done. :tongue_smilie:

 

Do an evaluation-

Does he know his basic math facts?

Does he understand fractions?

Does he understand the langauge of math (i.e. integers, variables, exponents, etc.)?

 

Algebra is less like caculating answers and more like learning a new language. It relies heavily on logic and if/then type statements. Is he struggling with trying to find a quick answer like he would with non-algebraic work?

 

 

What about the offerings at Homeschool Buyers Coop? Have you taken a look at HotMath and Your Teacher? Some of the books shown here allow access to homework help and other resources without a login code. I have DS watch the pre-algebra lessons sometimes before we work out of our textbook.

[RamonaQ]

I will throw what we are doing into the hat. But I can not say it would work in your situation...but something else to look into.

 

Math Without Borders/ Foesters Classic Algebra Text

 

Math Without Borders has lectures that go with each lesson. My math major husband really liked how the instructor lectures. The text is clean and straightforward. I bought the solution manual and each problem is worked out (line by line).

 

For us, this has been the most successful year to date, as I am not teaching math to him (the video are).:tongue_smilie:

[DawnM]

Thanks. I will take a look.

 

His current Algebra as a 30 minute teacher per day.....he isn't getting it. :tongue_smilie:

 

Dawn

 

I will throw what we are doing into the hat. But I can not say it would work in your situation...but something else to look into.

 

Math Without Borders/ Foesters Classic Algebra Text

 

Math Without Borders has lectures that go with each lesson. My math major husband really liked how the instructor lectures. The text is clean and straightforward. I bought the solution manual and each problem is worked out (line by line).

 

For us, this has been the most successful year to date, as I am not teaching math to him (the video are).:tongue_smilie:

[DawnM]

Thanks all. I have some things to research.

[Shellers]

I think you need to start with figuring out what he does know. I would probably step back to a pre-algebra textbook and start going through it to see where he's stuck....

 

:iagree::iagree:

[MicheleinMN]

I will throw what we are doing into the hat. But I can not say it would work in your situation...but something else to look into.

 

Math Without Borders/ Foesters Classic Algebra Text

 

Math Without Borders has lectures that go with each lesson. My math major husband really liked how the instructor lectures. The text is clean and straightforward. I bought the solution manual and each problem is worked out (line by line).

 

For us, this has been the most successful year to date, as I am not teaching math to him (the video are).:tongue_smilie:

 

 

:iagree:

[PeterPan]

I am not sure I can figure it out. It has been 30 years since I have done Algebra!

 

He has TT. That is what the trouble was! He said the instructional audio didn't cover what the lesson was actually about.

 

Well I'll read the rest of your thread, as maybe you've updated something.

 

Are you doing the original or 2.0? TT spirals, so if he is not solid on the prior stuff, yes he's going to have problems. So first I'd give him some placement tests (for the pre-algebra then the algebra) and see where he's actually at. Then I would sit down with him and see what's happening for yourself. If he's getting stumped in the explanations, that's one thing. If he's getting stumped in the spiral review, that's another. In the 2.0, every single review problem has a little note at the top for what lesson the problem came from. So then if he struggles with a problem, you know where the glitch is.

 

TT isn't necessarily independent with our kids.

[NittanyJen]

Now that I have calmed down a bit......I remember that I have thought in the past that Life of Fred might really work for him. He liked the one book we went through, although we didn't finish it.

 

Questions:

 

Do all the LoF books have the answers in them on the next page?

 

Only the your turn to play practice problems; half of the cities in Algebra have answers in the back; the other half have answers in the Home Companion book, which also has more problems, and breaks Algebra into bite-sized lessons. If needed, you can also buy "Zillions of Problems" for more practice.

 

Would you start with pre-algebra for a firmer foundation or would you jump into Algebra, or does it matter?

 

You said he did really well in Singapore, so he might not need it. But it couldn't hurt, either. Maybe just do Decimals and Percents, which will review fractions, and one PreA book?

 

Thank you,

 

Dawn

 

Good luck!

[PeterPan]

Yes, he has a very firm foundation. We did Singapore up until last year and he always got over 90% on his work.

 

...

TT seems to cover several concepts in one lesson. ...

 

He made it through about half of TT Algebra before throwing up his hands.

 

He has Aspgerger's, so even a hint of frustration throws him over the top. It is very rough on me too. He gets so angry and digs his feet in the sand and refuses to even try anymore.

 

 

He should not be frustrated. If he's frustrated, he either wasn't placed properly or missed a concept. TT does not cover a lot of new things in a lesson. It covers one new thing and tons of review. So if he's feeling overwhelmed, then he wasn't able to do easily and automatically those review things.

 

What level of SM did he come from into TT? Did you do the placement test first? Each curriculum has their own way of doing things. TT is sort of an oddball. It gets maligned as being behind and this and that, but it's really not as behind (at least in the new editions) as people think.

 

I do think there can be some issues with TT's explanations. For instance dd does *not* seem to be clicking with their explanation of slope, which makes me unhappy (as of course it's a foundational concept!). It makes me wonder how many more foundational concepts she's going to glitch up on. But really with TT you have to dig in and figure out where the glitch is. Like I said, in 2.0 all those spiral review problems are labeled for lesson. And just doing the placement test (start with the pre-algebra) might be informative.

[dtsmamtj]

Sorry things are so tough with your son. TT has been a huge blessing for our son. He had hit a brick wall with another major curriculum at the pre-algebra stage so we switched. Have you seen the dvds at www.mathtutordvd.com? You have received some great suggestions, I hope you are able to work something out soon.

[KathyBC]

My oldest struggled with TT Algebra 1 in 9th grade. I can do algebra, but that didn't seem to particularly help him. One of the options I discovered on this forum was Math Relief. It might be another program worth looking into.

[DawnM]

He did a placement test and scored in Algebra. He has completed Pre-Algebra. We put him back there after the first time he got stuck in Algebra.

 

It is the abstract concepts he gets frustrated with. It seems no amount of explaining is helping.

 

He GETS the concrete.

 

Dawn

[DawnM]

Ah, good to know about the lessons and where they came from.

 

I have the newer one as I have a Mac.

 

DH just phoned me a few min. ago to say that he would indeed start back up with helping him in the evenings. This is a HUGE relief to me as I had no idea what to do. A tutor is only there once or twice a week. What this child really needs is someone to sit there WITH him as he does the lesson and be ready to help answer questions.

 

I will also supplement myself with LofF as that is how I learn best! The kids have liked it as well.

 

Dawn

 

Well I'll read the rest of your thread, as maybe you've updated something.

 

Are you doing the original or 2.0? TT spirals, so if he is not solid on the prior stuff, yes he's going to have problems. So first I'd give him some placement tests (for the pre-algebra then the algebra) and see where he's actually at. Then I would sit down with him and see what's happening for yourself. If he's getting stumped in the explanations, that's one thing. If he's getting stumped in the spiral review, that's another. In the 2.0, every single review problem has a little note at the top for what lesson the problem came from. So then if he struggles with a problem, you know where the glitch is.

 

TT isn't necessarily independent with our kids.

[Guest]

No advice or experience to share but I thought that this might be relevant, at least to explain why your child is struggling with algebra. Temple Grandin does make some suggestions on that but I am not sure if it is something you would be willing to explore. I thought I would share it anyway since I have found Temple Grandin's advice truly invaluable :).

 

http://www.sweetspeeches.com/s/722-temple-grandin-the-world-needs-all-kinds-of-minds

Edited September 17, 2012 by Guest

[mchel210]

My son didnt retain TT very well. He switched to LIals Beginners Algebra and the book really explained everything to the student in detail. It was the first book he did amazing with.

 

He has taken algebra so many times...and we have to review a lot...It finally is starting to sink in! Good luck! I hope you find a program that can help you!

[Carol in Cal.]

I like Saxon Algebra 1. Have you tried giving him the Saxon placement test to see whether he is solid on pre-algebra? I would at least try that.

 

The other great thing about Saxon is the DIVE CD's. They don't just regurgitate the lesson; instead, they teach the same concept a different way with different examples--so someone who also studies the lesson has two runs at the same material. And Saxon constantly spirals through old material, keeping it fresh.

[curlylocks]

I like Saxon Algebra 1. Have you tried giving him the Saxon placement test to see whether he is solid on pre-algebra? I would at least try that.

 

The other great thing about Saxon is the DIVE CD's. They don't just regurgitate the lesson; instead, they teach the same concept a different way with different examples--so someone who also studies the lesson has two runs at the same material. And Saxon constantly spirals through old material, keeping it fresh.

 

:iagree: -- Saxon has been a huge blessing this year...except we use the Art Reed DVDS instead of DIVE.

[Guest somecleverhandle]

My son is not in algebra; he's in pre-algebra this year. He's 15 and a h.s. freshman. He's spent two years churning his wheels trying to keep up with his classmates in 7th and 8th grade math. He had many holes in his learning as he seems to learn it in the moment (doing both MUS and TT as a homeschooler up to 6th grade), but then he didn't retain it enough to use it shortly thereafter (or even to take a test on it).

 

He started Kumon in the spring of 7th grade year. They start kids at a v-e-r-y easy level for them and slowly solidify the basics. After a year and a half, our son is still not quite to the level in Kumon that his math class is at (and that's even after him repeating pre-algebra!), but he's getting there.

 

He does 15-20 minutes of Kumon per day, and goes to the center 1 time per week. He doesn't love it, but he does it. He certainly has seemed to benefit from the high repetition.

 

That's what's helped our kid: math that's close to his level and Kumon.

[DawnM]

I think part of it is his Asperger's. If he doesn't get it immediately without much effort, he gets frustrated. Period. He has always been this way.

 

Dh sat down with him and did TT tonight. With just a bit of prompting by DH, son got it. So, it is the right level, he just doesn't feel he can learn the next step by himself. Does that make sense?

 

I will be going through LofF with him and DH will go through TT with him and hopefully we will cover our bases.

 

Dawn

 

He should not be frustrated. If he's frustrated, he either wasn't placed properly or missed a concept. TT does not cover a lot of new things in a lesson. It covers one new thing and tons of review. So if he's feeling overwhelmed, then he wasn't able to do easily and automatically those review things.

 

What level of SM did he come from into TT? Did you do the placement test first? Each curriculum has their own way of doing things. TT is sort of an oddball. It gets maligned as being behind and this and that, but it's really not as behind (at least in the new editions) as people think.

 

I do think there can be some issues with TT's explanations. For instance dd does *not* seem to be clicking with their explanation of slope, which makes me unhappy (as of course it's a foundational concept!). It makes me wonder how many more foundational concepts she's going to glitch up on. But really with TT you have to dig in and figure out where the glitch is. Like I said, in 2.0 all those spiral review problems are labeled for lesson. And just doing the placement test (start with the pre-algebra) might be informative.

[DawnM]

I will take a look.

 

My son didnt retain TT very well. He switched to LIals Beginners Algebra and the book really explained everything to the student in detail. It was the first book he did amazing with.

 

He has taken algebra so many times...and we have to review a lot...It finally is starting to sink in! Good luck! I hope you find a program that can help you!

[WishboneDawn]

My 9th grader started Algebra at the beginning of 8th grade.

 

He is now not even half way through. He just keeps saying he doesn't get it.

 

I am no good at math. Dh is but has no time to do it and gets VERY frustrated with said child so it doesn't go well.

 

We have tried TT and then Great Courses. He says neither help him understand Algebra.

 

Short of paying about $6,000 this year to help him with an expensive tutor, I don't know what else to do. We do NOT have the $6,000 for a tutor.

 

I am at my wit's end here and DH and I are fighting over the best plan to help the child.

 

Dawn

 

I would take him right back to fractions and pre-algebra. The Key to Series has workbooks for both. They're quick to work through but cover the topics well and they're not expensive.

[Wendi]

My son is doing well with Kinetic Algebra. We both like the immediate feedback for each problem.

 

Wendi

[DawnM]

Thank you This is very enlightening. She does talk about how algebra was difficult for her and they should have let her skip to Geometry.

 

My son is much like her in that he is a visual thinker.

 

Dawn

 

No advice or experience to share but I thought that this might be relevant, at least to explain why your child is struggling with algebra. Temple Grandin does make some suggestions on that but I am not sure if it is something you would be willing to explore. I thought I would share it anyway since I have found Temple Grandin's advice truly invaluable :).

 

http://www.sweetspeeches.com/s/722-temple-grandin-the-world-needs-all-kinds-of-minds

[1shortmomto4]

It sounds like you've got things covered at this point so I'm probably not a lot of help but my dd had great success with Fresh Approach Algebra - lots of problems so that they have the chance to master and there is a review at the end of the chapter. When we started the book she did most of the problems but as she gained confidence I assigned less but if she needed more they were available to use as needed. The book is black & white, written in narrative form - like LOF but not as abstract. I have the LOF books and I'm strong in math but it had been too much time away from the classroom so I was more of a student right alongside my kids for the Beginners Algebra (be sure to get the extra homeschool book) -- doable but with other kids in the house that I'm responsible for teaching was a challenge. Fresh Approach was great and towards the very end of the course we pulled up some Khan videos just to add a wee bit of visuals.

[Guest]

Thank you This is very enlightening. She does talk about how algebra was difficult for her and they should have let her skip to Geometry.

 

My son is much like her in that he is a visual thinker.

 

Dawn

 

This was why I linked it for you, so you could see if this was a possibility :). My son always does well in anything to do with geometry. We have not had any issues so far, other than having to add an alternate solution for my oldest to get his math facts down, but I don't know what the future holds ;). I am a visual learner myself but did not have a problem with Algebra. In her book, The Way I See It, Temple Grandin lists the different types of thinking in Autism, as she has observed them. I will type the paragraph for you. It is found on pages 17-18 of the revised 2nd edition.

 

All minds in the autism/ Asperger's spectrum are detail-oriented, but how they specialize varies. By questioning many people, both on and off the spectrum, I have learned that there are three different types of specialized thinking with crossover among these specialized thinking patterns. Determining thinking types in three-year-old children is often not possible. Dominant thinking styles usually become more obvious when a child is seven to nine.

 

- Visual thinking/ thinking in photo realistic pictures, like mine

- Music and Math thinking in patterns

- Verbal thinking (not a visual thinker)

 

Since autism is so variable, there may be mixtures of the different types. For instance, a child may have strong music/ math patterned thinking, but also have, good visual thinking abilities. Or a verbal thinker may also have good math or foreign-language skills. The importance of understanding these three ways of thinking comes into play when trying to teach children with ASD. Strategies that build on the child's area of strength and appeal to their thinking patterns will be most effective. This is most likely to become evident between the ages of five and eight. It is often difficult to identify the strengths of children younger than five, unless savant skills are unfolding.

Wow, just posting this for you, I just realized something I had not noticed before :). She says that she observed this after speaking to people on and off the spectrum. In any case, what I wanted to point out for you is that she does talk about crossovers between the groups, also. Edited October 6, 2012 by Guest

[Guest]

Strategies that build on the child's area of strength and appeal to their thinking patterns will be most effective.

 

I used this when I was trying to figure out how to approach getting my son to learn his math facts. I know my son has a very powerful visual memory and learns well with interactive/ computer based approaches. I downloaded the free version of TimezAttack and he learned his facts in 1 month. Prior to that, he had to think and it was slowing him down. This put his visual memory at work, so now, when I ask him he just visualizes the equations and gives me the answer.

[DawnM]

Thanks Marie,

 

I was stumped because he has never had problems with math. Then Algebra hit and he was not able to do it! Putting him BACK a few steps isn't the answer as he does know basic steps.....but the abstractness of Algebra is what is tripping him up.

 

I know *I* struggled through Algebra, but I am not a math person AT ALL.

 

Interestingly enough, I just spoke with a mom whose son is a JUNIOR in high school. He has Asperger's as well. He is struggling with Algebra now.

 

I think we may just set it aside and skip to Geometry and come back to it later. Dh gave him some geometry problems and he seemed to get them just fine.

 

Dawn

 

I used this when I was trying to figure out how to approach getting my son to learn his math facts. I know my son has a very powerful visual memory and learns well with interactive/ computer based approaches. I downloaded the free version of TimezAttack and he learned his facts in 1 month. Prior to that, he had to think and it was slowing him down. This put his visual memory at work, so now, when I ask him he just visualizes the equations and gives me the answer.

[AngieW in Texas]

Have you tried Hands-on Equations? It might help some. It isn't a complete program. It's designed to be a supplement.

[Guest]

You're welcome!

 

Thanks Marie,

 

I was stumped because he has never had problems with math. Then Algebra hit and he was not able to do it! Putting him BACK a few steps isn't the answer as he does know basic steps.....but the abstractness of Algebra is what is tripping him up.

 

Yup, that's exactly what Temple Grandin had an issue with. So far, my son seems to be better with the abstract when it comes to math. It was the simple things, like getting his math facts down, that were an issue. I didn't master mine until some time in 4th but I was a mathy person. I was a problem solver with the attitude that there is no problem that cannot be solved. I was an independent learner though and always needed to study on my own to reach the conceptual understanding I sought.

 

I know *I* struggled through Algebra, but I am not a math person AT ALL.

 

Interestingly enough, I just spoke with a mom whose son is a JUNIOR in high school. He has Asperger's as well. He is struggling with Algebra now.

 

I think we may just set it aside and skip to Geometry and come back to it later. Dh gave him some geometry problems and he seemed to get them just fine.

 

Dawn

 

I would love to hear how things go if you go the Geometry route first :).

[DawnM]

Who said they would send me a copy of LofF? I have accidentally deleted the PM.

 

PM me again! I am so sorry.

[plaa]

Thought you might be interested in TEDX talk on visual teaching of math concepts

 

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Thanks for all of the honesty here. I rarely visit this thread and don't know why. I guess it is because I don't have specific diagnosis or labels for my children. But after reading this thread ( and I am a Temple Grandin fan!),

it is like a breath of fresh air.

 

It is hard for me to remember all of what I did learn in High school and college, but what I clearly remember is hating algebra and loving Geometry in High School!

 

I took a remedial Algebra and aced it in college. I had a great teacher too, so I thank God for her. She somehow made it visual for me. '

 

Our 15 year old ds is not wanting to do any math except TT which he is now struggling with. We also have Chalkdust Pre-Algebra with books and DVD lessons. I like the Chalkdust instructor the most so far. We also have looked at Lial but I really thought he would like a male instructor better.

I don't want him to feel less than or like he can't learn. We have Jacob's Algebra and Jacob's Geometry.

After reading posts on here, I may test him to see where he would place in Saxon since it has been too long since he did.

I don't get much input from him except that he hates math.

 

Our 12 yr. old dd is choosing to stay with Saxon and is in 7/6.

 

I tried LOF Fractions but the answers in the back of the book was a big disappointment.

 

I have also been in a co-op that to my knowledge never had a math class until this year. Many families struggle silently. It seems taboo to mention math struggles. Finally they started Algebra and a dad volunteered to teach for free. I hope he is still around next year, and I am hearing good results.

 

It is important for our children to feel valued for who they are and not just what they can do or achieve. PBA ( Performance Based Acceptance) is not what we want and neither do they.

Edited October 11, 2012 by TGHEALTHYMOM

[Guest]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Thanks for all of the honesty here. I rarely visit this thread and don't know why. I guess it is because I don't have specific diagnosis or labels for my children. But after reading this thread ( and I am a Temple Grandin fan!),

it is like a breath of fresh air.

 

Good to see another Grandin fan :D! Also very good to see others coming on to post even though they don't have official diagnoses. I was beginning to feel all alone :).

 

It is hard for me to remember all of what I did learn in High school and college, but what I clearly remember is hating algebra and loving Geometry in High School!

 

I took a remedial Algebra and aced it in college. I had a great teacher too, so I thank God for her. She somehow made it visual for me.

 

I was fortunate in my life in that I did come across some good teachers while in school. Not all but enough to make a difference in my life. I was also good in and did favor Geometry and Trig. I was clearly a 2E child but not having any outside help came up with my own adaptations and ways to compensate.

 

My older boy is highly visual but has shown signs of pattern thinking from a very young age. This is why the groups and crossover that Grandin talks about make so much sense to me. There are days when his thinking in math amazes me and others when I really have to work on making things visual for him to say "oh, now I get it". It is a challenge at times but we are doing well so far. I am adding Geometry for him in January (as an intro) by adding the Key to Series Geometry books as a supplement. It is my way of following Grandin's advice sooner rather than later :). We shall see what the future holds for him!

 

I definitely have no solutions, mostly because I feel that since Autism is a spectrum disorder and you don't really know with the crossover where your child is at, I feel that we will be discovering the best course of action on a yearly, monthly, weekly, and sometimes daily basis :tongue_smilie:.

It is important for our children to feel valued for who they are and not just what they can do or achieve. PBA ( Performance Based Acceptance) is not what we want and neither do they.

 

:iagree:

Edited October 13, 2012 by Guest

[Kathleen in VA]

My oldest struggled with TT Algebra 1 in 9th grade. I can do algebra, but that didn't seem to particularly help him. One of the options I discovered on this forum was Math Relief. It might be another program worth looking into.

 

:iagree:I'm a little late chiming in, but if you get stuck on the TT again, I highly recommend Algebra Relief at www.mathrelief.com. There is a sample video on their website that I had my son watch and he immediately said that it helped him understand better. I bought the program and he is loving it. This son has always been slow at everything and I was beginning to wonder if he would ever catch on to algebra (we used TT, too). Mr. Firebaugh, the instructor, explains each concept very clearly and that are lots of practice problems. Each lesson builds on the one before it - very, very incremental. I cannot recommend this program more highly.

[Dmmetler]

We have the Algebra Survival guide. I think its probably most useful as a way to quickly review concepts/topics already studied. I'm not sure it's going to really help demystify if a child is completely confused, though.

 

OP-have you looked at Algeblocks? There are some online models to try them out and see if they'll work. They're more concrete and go to greater depth than Hands on Equations (which is great for an initial taste of algebra, but isn't going to even get a kid much beyond what's covered in most pre-algebra courses) They're expensive, though.